Nadine Dyer (00:01) Beautiful sisters and friends. are back. This is Nadine Dyer with Linking Arms Podcast. And today I have a special guest and friend, a leader in the community, Ms. Sue Finkham, who is the mayor in Carmel, Indiana. So if you don't know, Carmel is just a city here in the Indiana area. And I am so excited to have you on. So Sue, welcome. Thank you for joining us. Sue Finkam (00:28) Thank you for having me, it's gonna be fun today. Nadine Dyer (00:30) It's gonna be a ton of fun. And so the topic for today, and you ladies know, if you know me at all, you know this is like my heartbeat. The topic for today is purpose. It's purpose. And I'm so excited to just hear from Sue because this woman has identified and leaned into, stepped into her purpose in such a mighty way that she's making such a ripple effect in the community. So Sue, I just want you to just kick us off with why this topic? Why is this meaningful to you? What is your story here? The floor is yours. Sue Finkam (01:05) Well, I think this word is meaningful to me. And by the way, hi everybody. This word is important to me because this was the question I had to answer before I ran for mayor is what can I do to serve better? I was on city council, which is a part-time position for 12 years. I was running my own marketing agency, obviously married with a son who was in college at the time. And I just felt like I wasn't being used personally to my highest and best use. But I was achieving a lot, right? Carmel is a 106,000 person city, arguably probably right now the sixth largest city in the state of Indiana, on a very busy city council. And then, you know, I had marketing business, which is just taking off great clients, serving healthcare clients and just you know that was personally very fulfilling but just felt like there was something else. I wasn't challenging myself as much as I thought. I was busy, I was active, probably too busy and too active and then asking myself I want to do more by running a campaign and potentially serving in this role and so I think that's why it strikes a chord with me because I really really had to soul search did I really want to give up this really good gig I had with an amazing company, amazing employees, and then, and take on something big in a political world, which is, as you know, sometimes maybe not, not the most friendly arena to compete in. And it just, I just felt like if I didn't go for it and try it, I would never forgive myself. I always wonder had my, what was my purpose to serve in a different role and I didn't try for it. So, and then every single day I'm in this office, I wonder what my purpose is, Nadine Dyer (02:47) Hmm. Good. Sue Finkam (03:00) today, this hour, because as you, as the role of a mayor, it's so diverse. And Indiana is what they call a strong mayor state, meaning the mayor is the CEO of the organization, as well as the community figurehead and cheerleader and promoter advocate. And other states, they might have a designated city manager or somebody else to do that. And Indiana, it's not that way. So there's always stuff to do, budgets to review, personnel issues to deal with, special events in the community. I'm looking out over our civic square here. You know, then you have challenges too that just come up, you know, a weather disaster or an accident or something like that. And there's always something and I'm always challenged. Like, when those times are that I can dictate how I spend my time, what is my purpose? And it's, I'm always wondering, am I spending my time in the right way? I think that comes with Nadine Dyer (03:57) Yeah. Sue Finkam (03:59) intuition experience as well. So I'll probably feel a little more comfortable in answering those questions with a little more time under my belt. But that's, that's why this word matters to me. Nadine Dyer (04:09) So good. I've written down already a bunch of things, but I think what's kind of standing out for me is a couple of takeaways that I'm already taking, which is busy doesn't always mean purposeful. It could be a distraction. So I think that's just a meaningful point, because sometimes I think our busyness clogs our purpose, distracts from really our purpose. Sue Finkam (04:23) Mm-hmm, for sure. Yes, yes. It goes to urgent and important. Like, you know, that age old discussion in the business world. You might be working on something that's urgent or important, but not urgent, urgent, not important. It's hard to balance your time and your focus. I've been trying really, really hard to find white space on my calendar and it's impossible right now. So, and that goes to priorities, right? And my priority is to make a lasting impact in this community. Nadine Dyer (04:40) Yes! Yeah. Sue Finkam (05:06) and to have people as a piece of our infrastructure. Because I felt that was missing. We have a great, great community. The mayor before me was here 28 years and several mayors before that. They all put their stamp on the community in many ways on the built environment, our transportation network, these cool buildings, parks, play areas, third spaces. And I really feel like an opportunity was there and a gap to really make people as infrastructure piece that we wanted to design and build and maintain, just like you would a piece of an asset that's a piece of concrete or brick or whatever, right? And I've been focusing a lot on that. So when I look at my calendar, I'm like, am I focusing on that people as infrastructure piece or not? Nadine Dyer (05:47) Yeah. Yeah. that was another thing that I heard you say was there's this big core purpose, right? But then there's like this daily check in of is what I'm doing aligned with my purpose. Like, what is my purpose today? There's the big part. And then there's the like the micro part, the day by day, minute by minute, hour by hour, maybe not minute by minute, but you know. The other thing I heard, though, that I think I need to point out is this It took sacrifice. You had to get out of your comfort zone to step into purpose. And I think, I mean, that's probably common sense, but I think it's worth calling out of maybe you're being called to something, ladies out there, but there's something you have to let go of. There's a comfort that you need to let go of. So I thought that was really great. And I also caught the part where it's like, would I regret it if I don't? Will there be regret? Sue Finkam (06:28) For sure. What's the cost of an inaction, right? It's not an inaction because it's an action you're just choosing to go away from it. What's the cost? It's opportunity cost. Yeah, for sure. Nadine Dyer (06:54) What's the cost of this? Yeah. What's the cost of coasting versus aligning on purpose? Okay, so I want to backtrack though. I really do. Because I know we see you today as this powerhouse, authentic leader, mayor, influencer. I mean, it's amazing. But I kind of want to backtrack to like little Sue on the playground, you know, like. Sue Finkam (07:06) Yes. Nadine Dyer (07:24) I wanna talk about this journey to purpose. mean, could you define like pivot points in your life where you got clearer and clearer and clearer? Sue Finkam (07:34) At some point and I guess can poke at me if you don't think I'm nailing it. I grew up in Northern Michigan, so the hardwood area of Michigan. We ran around barefooted and sandaled through woods and blueberry patches. one friend had a motorbike, one friend had a horseback, one friend had a canoe, another friend had a boat, right? So you just had to, at the of the day, what friends you hung with. But it was just, it was a great and outdoor kid. Nadine Dyer (07:39) Yeah. Oh fun. Yeah. Sue Finkam (08:04) I was, I guess, academically gifted. I could color fast and I was elevated to grade in second grade to third grade. And I think that was a point to me because, you know, now I have to go with a whole group of friends that I don't know and they already think I'm different and special. I just remember that so clearly. Those really first, you know, memories. But I just look back at those opportunities, first of all, that teachers give you. Nadine Dyer (08:28) Hmm. Sue Finkam (08:35) Um, and, and, and other adults encourage you to do, I remember winning a DNR contest for, I have this little book at home and it's covered, you know, the wallpaper, the sticky back wallpaper we used to have as kids contact paper. Uh, and it's like covered with one wallpaper frogs on it. Another one, like some wooded look. And so for whatever, I won something for that. I remember that too, right? Cause I remember feeling this amazing sense of achievement. We're getting this little probably statue, you know, that's what two inches big or three inches big. Nadine Dyer (08:59) Mmm. Sure. Sue Finkam (09:04) and we were a group full of people at some DNR meeting or dinner. I remember having to stand up and get this. I remember thinking scared to death and then like, oh, that was kind of cool. And I got a little cool statue out of it. But it was like, I think it was one of first times I can remember where you work for something and you get recognized. Nadine Dyer (09:22) Got it. Yeah, it's that achieve that drive. It's like drive was building within you almost. Sue Finkam (09:26) Yeah, for sure. And so, you know, I had teachers recommend me for special trips and different things like that. You go talk on a radio station. Remember doing that when I was little. Or TV station, I mean. And you just those things throughout your career, think, as a kid, add up. that's why I've started involving youth in some of the stuff I do, because I'm sprinkling seeds along the path for them to hopefully be a community leader someday. Nadine Dyer (09:36) That's cool. Yeah. Sue Finkam (09:55) And I think, there's other turning points. My father died the first day of my senior year of high school. And so I was going to go to Michigan, which I'm wearing my Michigan shirt today because I can say. Nadine Dyer (10:04) I that, I was so excited. My little guy loves U of M Yeah. Sue Finkam (10:07) Go Blue. So I was going to go to Michigan. That was three and half hours away from where we grew up. And central Michigan was 70 miles away. My mom wanted me to go to community college, you know, which is right there. But I was again, salutatorian. There's no way I was going to go to community college in my own hometown. That just wasn't going to happen. And I think God had his hand in choosing central Michigan for me as a right fit, great people, wonderful program, and just gave me opportunities and put me in the path of other people Nadine Dyer (10:25) Yeah. Sue Finkam (10:36) who saw something and pushed me forward. Whether it be the curriculum director who I'm still in touch with now, to my first boss who I had to do 15 week internship. He gave me a job offer at the same time I got an offer to be a full-time graduate assistant. So again, that was a pivot point and I was so appreciative of that opportunity, which totally took me on a different career path, brought me to Indiana. So I think it's just, the story there is, You know, we have an opportunity every single day to pour into people and push them forward in opportunities that they don't see themselves. And people did that for me, right? And I'm so appreciative and, you know, I hope I've been, you know, thoughtful enough and thankful enough to say, I recognize that they took that special opportunity. then throughout my career, again, other people saying, you should try for this job or I want you on this project, or, you know, you should consider this instead of that, right? Nadine Dyer (11:13) Yeah. Yeah. Sue Finkam (11:36) people who have just kindness, right, to guide you and ever so thankful. So hopefully I'm being as good of a partner back to generations coming up as others were to me. Nadine Dyer (11:42) Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's pretty cool. So gosh, I have so many questions and so many different ways that I can go with it, but I'm curious, when you were younger, did you know what you wanted to do when you grew up? Like, did you have a specific, do you remember? Sue Finkam (12:04) I wasn't zeroed in on any one thing. You know, again, I think I'm so jealous of the kids today because even though there's downsides to the internet, the internet opens up a whole world of opportunity for them, right? There's no amount of research you can't do. you know, I'm sitting here in Carmel with the best school systems in the country and those kids get exposed to so much. So I went to a great school system, small, tiny little consolidated school system, but that was highly regarded. Nadine Dyer (12:16) Yeah. Sue Finkam (12:33) I didn't have any female business role models. And so I thought about, you know, leading, but what does that look like? Or any business role models? I thought about the military, Air Force, but I didn't know of anyone who was in the, females who were in the Air Force. And you know, just those kinds of things come and go without anyone to talk to or model. It was very hard. So I eventually landed on sports medicine. I was a, I liked Nadine Dyer (13:02) Okay. Sue Finkam (13:02) everything athletics. And so I thought I'm not ever going to be a college athlete. I wasn't that talented. And so I'm like, Hey, but I can take care of athletes. And again, it's serving people. I did have that call. And so that kind of, I did resonate with that. And initially when I went into college, I thought I'm going to be the first athletic trainer that's a female, head athletic trainer in the NFL that's a female, you know, that still hasn't happened yet. I am no spring chicken now. So it's been a while. Nadine Dyer (13:15) Yeah. Sue Finkam (13:32) And I was like, dang it, could I change that? that's okay. I'll have to wonder on that one. Nadine Dyer (13:39) Yes, yes. You know, there's a different path and we always, you know, we end up different places. It's interesting because what I'm hearing you say is like you knew parts of it, right? Like you knew you liked to serve people. You knew it was leadership. You knew you were going to be a pioneer, felt like, right? Sue Finkam (13:43) Exactly. I have a knack for finding those things where I'm the first of or first of several. Nadine Dyer (13:59) Yeah, yeah. But then there was other parts that you didn't know. So I'm curious, you know, if there's college students that are sitting listening to us right now, I know a lot of young women who are like, I don't know what to go to school for. And they put so much pressure on themselves. What advice would you give them of like how to choose their career or their majors or minors? Would you have any thoughts there? Sue Finkam (14:20) Well, I think they have to be true to themselves. Values first, right? Don't go into a career where it's gonna, or a job that's gonna challenge your values. I've done that a couple, it's not like it was like, illegal or immoral. It's just more like, didn't really fit who I was. And you you feel it. And so, so first, know, and you know, the reality is though, taking some of these jobs that are uncomfortable or not a good fit are learning too. Nadine Dyer (14:29) Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Sue Finkam (14:48) because it's usually like, yep, not doing that again, been there done that. You know, had that type of boss or that type of setting. I always like to find those opportunities where I had a chance to stand out. And so an example is when I took that job where I could have gone to West Virginia University as a graduate assistant or stay in my internship, it was an athletic, as an athletic trainer working in a manufacturing setting. There was only, think at the time, six in the country doing that out of, I think, 30,000 athletic trainers. And I thought, okay, well, here's an opportunity if I learn this and get better at it and have an opportunity to, you know, step my own clinic or do my own thing. Hours were better than athletics. The pay was better. And I can be a subject matter expert. I eventually did write a textbook about it. So I always found those things where... was just a little off where the masses were. Because I like that. I also do a pretty good job of creating chaos out of disorder, whatever that's called. So I like startups and things like that where things are a little opaque. And I can kind of figure it out. I think it's the creative person in me and the organizer both. Nadine Dyer (15:47) Got it, yeah. So you're saying create order out of chaos. Okay, I think I heard it as create disorder out of chaos. I was like, wait, who knows? It's recorded. So we'll see. But we'll see if she edits, knows? Sue Finkam (16:07) Yeah, create order on a gas. I probably said that wrong. Great order of the chaos, yes, yes. Although sometimes it's fun to create disorder too. Nadine Dyer (16:23) I'm actually very good at chaos. Sue Finkam (16:27) Yeah, I love it. Nadine Dyer (16:29) gosh. OK, so I heard I heard some great stuff. And I think this is like your path to purpose. Like if we're talking to young women, but we're talking to any woman, it's like you need to know your values. Like that's that's part of like understanding and helping you identify your purpose. Like what are your values? And then I also heard you say, learn and explore, you know, like when you step into things that might be out of your skill set or out of your values, learn from it and then pivot. so I think those are some really great tips, thoughts, and it will lean into that on our next episode with like practical applications for purpose. But I thought that was great. I got to go back to the female thing because we have to speak to it. We have to. And listen, I'm not a big like women power and women need to make more than I think. I think women are valuable and wonderful. And so are men and we're wired differently and beautifully and uniquely. But I have to think that becoming mayor as a woman had some challenges. And I'm curious if you would kind of give us a glimpse of what that looked like. Sue Finkam (17:36) Yeah, for sure. I mean, I was really, it was really important to me that when I ran for mayor, that I talked about how qualified I am and I'm the best candidate and I would do the best job. And, I also happened to be female. It really wasn't a, it wasn't a talking point other than say, I'm a proud, you know, I said, you know, you know, business owner, community leader, wife and mom. So not that that's in the right priority, but we, that's how we described who I was to the community. I do think, Nadine Dyer (18:01) Yeah. Sue Finkam (18:06) The women's, well let me say Rutgers has a interesting set of research on women in politics. And they talk about how women have to know more, educate themselves more, be asked to run and have their life in order, right? You know, just like, just have to have everything just perfect before they'll jump in and have to be asked. And where men will roll out of bed and go, I'm going to run for Congress today. Nadine Dyer (18:30) Hmm. Right. Sue Finkam (18:36) So what I tell women is channel that, channel that male energy that's so fantastic and use it and then add that to already the fact that you're compassionate, empathetic and just add a little bit of, you know, crank up that aggression or drive just a little bit and believe in yourself and go for it. I think sometimes as a female elected official, there has been assumptions that I don't know math or the hard skills as much. Now I haven't gotten that as much recently, but you know, they men tend to go on the finance committees and women don't That kind of thing. Right out of the gate. I decided I was going to learn our budget inside and out because I didn't want to be put in that category. At least, you know, if anyone knew me or knew my skills, you know, we always have a challenge about we have to usually dress nicer. You know, men can wear these, I'll say upscale sweatpants and tennis shoes. If a woman did that. Nadine Dyer (19:22) Yeah. Sue Finkam (19:35) There's a double standard that comes out of how we dress. I'm wearing a t-shirt, getting away with it. But I'm sure there's someone, they see this, will be like, she shouldn't be wearing a t-shirt in a professional attire, where a guy could do it very easily. So I do think there are some double standards with things as well. I was very frustrated, saw a tweet, I think it was like on X, a post on X, probably two or three weeks ago. And they were disparaging another mayor, another community. And then it said, and Carmel's got a woman there. What could go wrong there? no, Carmel's got a woman mayor. She's highly influenced what can go wrong there. And another woman, she said, I agree. I'm like, what's wrong with you women? Right. And I think women sometimes are our worst supporters of other women because we take on the scarcity mindset that there's only so many seats at the table for women. Therefore I've got it and no one else can have it. Nadine Dyer (20:24) Yeah. Yeah. Sue Finkam (20:32) And that's just such a disappointment. Because we should have all the seats at the table if we really wanted to. So I don't want that either. I want a nice diverse conversation. But very frustrating sometimes where women don't support other women. Nadine Dyer (20:41) nice healthy balance. Sure. Yeah, yeah. And in reality, when we encourage each other, we're all stronger, right? It's not a scarcity. It's not if you're good, then I'm not. It's a let's step into everybody's giftings and callings and purpose and together, what can we do? Sue Finkam (21:00) And the whole adage about lift as you climb, right? Lift as you climb. And again, people helped me. Women of the generation above me had battles I didn't have to fight. Thankfully, they took those on, so the next generation didn't have to. And I know my generation's tackled some of those to make it easier for the next generation. But lift as you climb, because we have so many opportunities. Instead of a scarcity mentality, we have to have an abundance mentality. Nadine Dyer (21:03) Yeah Sue Finkam (21:30) The world is our oyster, we just gotta go out and get it. And if people think I'm dressed wrong, if people don't like my hair, if people think I'm too easily influenced as a female, so be it, I'm just focused on forward. Upward and forward. Yes. Nadine Dyer (21:41) Yeah, on your purpose. Yeah, on your purpose and what you're here to do. And I love that. So as we wrap up, what a great conversation. Thank you so much for just sharing a piece of you and kind of what's gotten you to this role and the purpose path. Is there anything that you would like to wrap up this episode with for our listeners? Sue Finkam (22:03) I would just say place value on time where you can think about you. I think women think about everybody else in their life, but them sometimes. And so it was, especially if you're a younger female trying to figure out what your purpose is, literally reserve time to think about you and serve you as well. I need to follow my own words on that sometimes too. But I think that's something we don't talk enough. Nadine Dyer (22:26) Me too. That's great. Thank you so much for this. And I'm excited for our next episode where we can tap into some more practical applications. So come back and join us for the next one, sisters. We love you and we can't wait to talk to you soon.