Nadine Dyer (00:01) Sister, sister, sister, welcome back. We are so, so happy to have you here. Today is such a special treat for you, for me, for us. We are joined by Rebecca Hitchcock, who is an author of a book titled, What I Didn't Learn in Church, and just a dynamic beautiful woman and I am just so excited to dive into our topic today of shame or unashamed. We'll see where it flows. But Rebecca, welcome. We are so happy you're here. Rebecca Hitchcock (00:40) Thank you. I'm so happy to be here Nadine. I love what Purposeful Living is all about. I feel like God divinely connected us through a friend. And it is so beautiful to meet a like-minded person that you don't even know lives around the corner. Yeah, yeah. Nadine Dyer (00:57) It Yeah, it's a blessing, isn't it? So let's dive into our topic today. And our topic today is shame. And that's kind of a word that's like, ⁓ really? We're going to talk about shame. And this episode is really about your story, your testimony, what you want to share, how you've encountered shame, how it's impacted you, how you've overcome it. We want to hear from you, your heart around this topic. And the floor is yours. So whatever's coming up, take it away. Rebecca Hitchcock (01:29) Okay, well. I'll give you a little history. I'll share, okay, I've been married for 35 years. I have a wonderful husband, Cam. We have five kids. We just recently, two of whom are married and we have two grandbaby boys just this last year, Jack and Jude. And although you have a Jack as well. Nadine Dyer (01:50) Okay, I have a Jack. I never realized this, but I have a Jack who's a year and a half. How old is your Jack? Rebecca Hitchcock (01:55) ⁓ he's, they're 14 months. Nadine Dyer (01:59) Okay, we need to get Double Jack and Jude together. I love this. Yeah. Rebecca Hitchcock (02:02) Yes, that would be great. Okay. So, I had been raised in a Christian home, very conservative denomination, ⁓ went to church, did all that was, you know, but I always seemed at the young age of even at five, I accepted Christ as my savior. Okay. That was my story. And I grew up in a very strong Christian home, but something occurred at age five that was, ⁓ It was ministry, my parents were doing ministry and it was for a youth teen Christian home and I had a sexual abuse incident happen to me at age five. When something like that happens at age five and you don't understand it, you feel dirty, you feel heavy, you feel all those things that a little five year old can't imagine and you know, you like. I knew Jesus, like I loved Jesus, but I always felt from age five, unapproved, accepted, and I didn't know that it was shame. so fast forward, like ebbing and flowing in my faith, ⁓ I go and have a successful career in the fashion industry. And ⁓ I realized I'd put God on the back burner. Things of this world were much more important. And yet I... Nadine Dyer (03:08) Hmm Rebecca Hitchcock (03:26) I did always say, okay, I'm going to get back to you, Lord. Like I'm going to get back to you. It sounds so crazy, but you know, I had better things to do. ⁓ so I remember we, I, I had always said with my career to my husband, I will stay home with the children. Cause we knew we wanted to have a big family. If God, was God's desires. Now I'm not saying I forgot about God. I was in and out. Like I had one foot in the world, one foot with Nadine Dyer (03:33) I can relate to that though. mean, yeah. Rebecca Hitchcock (03:56) the Lord, you know, and it was Becky's plan, you know, I'm going to keep doing this my way. So I end up retiring from, it was Marshall Fields in Chicago, I was their fashion director, and stay home with our children. Our first son was born and we're living in the suburbs of Chicago. And you know, like whole identity gets ripped from you. So we moved from the city to the burbs. Nadine Dyer (03:57) Yep, I get that. Yep. Rebecca Hitchcock (04:21) I traded in my smart 90s suits for jeans and a t-shirt. And I always joke around that the only accessory I had was a spit up stain on my shoulder. And I'm looking down at my son changing his diaper. And I distinctly remember looking into his face and saying, why am I not feeling anything? He's laughing. He's so cute and chubby. And I'm feeling nothing. I was so numb. Nadine Dyer (04:44) Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Rebecca Hitchcock (04:51) I was so broken. I was suffering from insomnia that I really, as I evaluated, I had not been sleeping. I was like, and I cried out to the Lord, because I was so scared. The only emotion I really had was fear and anxiety. And you know, you're looking at your child saying, this is supposed to be the happiest time of my life. That's a whole nother episode we could talk about, And I looked at his face and I... Nadine Dyer (05:13) Sure, sure. Rebecca Hitchcock (05:21) And I'm just stunned that I'm not feeling anything. And I cry out to the Lord, help me. What's going on here? And he heard my cry and my plea. And like a few weeks later, I was diagnosed with postpartum depression. And that seems so foreign to me because in my mind, at that time, it's very naive. You're weak if you are depressed, right? And I was like, I can't be depressed. I'm a joyful person. I'm happy. I'm joyful. ⁓ Nadine Dyer (05:46) Right. Rebecca Hitchcock (05:51) you know, sort of extroverted at times. ⁓ I'd like to have a lot of fun. I can't believe this is happening to me. And in my mind at that age, I was young, you think that you can change circumstances and circumstances will make you happy or will change. But it was a physical thing and it was real. And ⁓ so I started, I knew like there was such a pressing on inside of me. Who are you gonna choose, Becky? Are you gonna come in with two feet? Like with me all the way? Nadine Dyer (06:04) Right. Yeah. Rebecca Hitchcock (06:20) Are you gonna keep one foot in the world and one foot, you know? And I knew, I was desperate. I was like, I need you. Cause like, I'm not doing well here. I couldn't sleep. I couldn't function really. So got to the doctor and then the meds that they gave me at that time, cause this was 30 years ago, did the opposite. Take this medicine and you may not sleep. I'm like, well, I'm already not sleeping. Nadine Dyer (06:20) and Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Rebecca Hitchcock (06:50) So it was like, it was such a trial and error thing and I'm very sensitive to medicine. So that was a whole nother thing. And in your mind, you think, awesome. I can take this pill and I'm going to feel so much better. Well, it was a longer journey for me than that. You know, it was a trial and error situation. But in that time, I sought the Lord like never before. And I started getting back to my faith and I started reading God's word. And in that time, I discovered something that I had pushed down was that incident at age five was that I had had this Nadine Dyer (07:16) interesting. Rebecca Hitchcock (07:18) incident and what am I going to do with it? I haven't told anyone but I didn't realize I was carrying around this heaviness. 30. Yeah. Yeah. Nadine Dyer (07:25) How old were you at this point? 30. So like 25 years later, it like creeps its ugly head. Rebecca Hitchcock (07:33) And I don't know if it was because now I was having children, you know? I don't know. Nadine Dyer (07:37) Sure, sure, but there was something, but that shame was there all along. Wow. Okay. All right. Keep going. just want to. Rebecca Hitchcock (07:41) Yes, yes. So, okay, I identified that and I acknowledged it, but I still don't think I really acknowledge it. Like I sort of said, okay, that's something. Let's keep moving along. So just as I'm starting to see some light, I find out I'm pregnant with our second child. And so they're only, let's see, they're 18 months apart. Nadine Dyer (07:52) Sure. Yeah, you're a new mom, you're trying to figure it all out, you're dealing, yeah. Rebecca Hitchcock (08:09) I'm not good with math. My husband always says, stay away from numbers. And I'm like, okay. ⁓ Nadine Dyer (08:14) Thanks, honey. Rebecca Hitchcock (08:16) And to be honest, I thought that was the worst news that I was like pregnant again. I was like, how am going to do this? But then I will say I was studying God's word and then I was in community. I started a Bible study. I started, I was in this play group with some women and they were doing a book club and I was sort of starting to get back to my faith. So I was like, so excited to share with people. And I wanted connection with other women, like what you have created. And I started this. Bible study sort of in my family room with 10 ladies and I couldn't believe they all said yes. So we just met together, we prayed together. Some knew God, some didn't. We just really, what you're doing, we had connection. But then I was serious about we're gonna study the Bible. And so it started to become alive in our lives. So, then the Lord would have me do this for ⁓ three states that we lived in. like, I guess we're in 2 and a half. Nadine Dyer (08:49) Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Rebecca Hitchcock (09:14) decades really, of meeting with women outside of a church, usually in a family room, studying his word and watching the power of his ⁓ love, the power of his truth, challenge, invigorate and transform our lives, like completely. But the number one thing that I kept hearing them was, wait, why didn't I learn that in church when we would come to certain topics? Hence I wrote this small little book. which were some of the stories of the women and these topics. And the very number one thing that I saw was we were all hovering under these shame clouds. That's what I called it. And I say shame cloud, and this is like, that's the picture, but the feeling is ⁓ this heaviness of I'm not accepted, I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy of his forgiveness because of Nadine Dyer (09:54) Hmm. Yeah. Rebecca Hitchcock (10:11) what I've done or things that have been done to me and I'm not forgiven and I'm not accepted and approved by God. Like we were all under this. When really his word says totally opposite. In Isaiah 61:7 it says, I will take your shame and give you a double portion. And once you have that revelation knowledge that Nadine Dyer (10:14) Yeah. Rebecca Hitchcock (10:39) What we're coming up to Easter Sunday where Jesus died to take our shame. Shame. Yeah, I know you all have it. You all have it. I have a ⁓ shame assessment in the back of the book, of that chapter. One of the characteristics is I don't even feel worthy to take the shame assessment to spend the time for me to spend on myself. Nadine Dyer (10:53) a call. Wow. Yeah. I don't even deserve to take the shame assessment. Rebecca Hitchcock (11:04) Right, right. So you don't even know if you have shame, but we all do. Everyone does, you know, and ⁓ even like you and I were talking, even, you know, maybe like really been walking with the Lord for a long time or not. If you have been walking with the Lord a long time, you still will have shame pop up and you got to check yourself and say, wait, what do I know about the word to be true? And what do I know about my faith to be true? I'm accepted and loved by the creator. Nadine Dyer (11:06) Right. Yeah. Yeah. Rebecca Hitchcock (11:33) of the universe. Always. Not because of me. Not because of what I've done or haven't done, but because of Jesus. Nadine Dyer (11:34) Yeah. always bright. Yeah. Rebecca Hitchcock (11:45) And he said, come to me, all you that labor, and I will give you rest. And I will give you later on freedom. And I will give you like, he will do it. We just have to come. Nadine Dyer (11:57) Yeah, that's so good. I want to talk a little bit more about just shame clouds because I just that concept to me is like, whoa. So can you talk to me about kind of like how you've experienced shame clouds in your life or in the women's lives? Like just your perspective on this. Rebecca Hitchcock (12:02) Yes. Yeah, what I saw a lot of the women, never thought, like I mentioned, they were good enough. So then they would do, do, do, do to get that feeling of acceptance. Nadine Dyer (12:28) Yeah, yeah, it's like we're hustling for our worthiness because it's a shame cloud that like glooms over. Rebecca Hitchcock (12:33) Exactly. And a lot of times the shame not feeling accepted and approved. We would say, we can easily say that about society. I don't feel accepted and approved by them. I don't feel accepted, but ultimately we all have a longing to be accepted and approved. And I don't, think we were created that way. And the only person that we will feel truly fulfilled, accepted and approved is if we have a relationship with the one who created us. So. Nadine Dyer (12:51) Yeah. Rebecca Hitchcock (13:02) We can do, do, do, do, do, it, and it lasts for a little bit. Like, oh, and we want to do well and we want to do excellent. That's why we have a tinge of like, I don't know, dopamine hit when we're doing something right. Right? It's not false. It's, it's good. We're doing things right. But if that becomes our identity and that was the other thing we didn't learn in church, we had no idea. And that's what I think the double portion is. That's my opinion. Worthiness. What's the double portion that he's going to give us? Nadine Dyer (13:13) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I want to hear it. Rebecca Hitchcock (13:32) worthiness, acceptance, we're righteous in Christ. We are made righteous in Him. We get a whole new identity when we come to Him. And He said, you know, in 2 Corinthians 5:17, ⁓ forget what's behind, basically, I'm paraphrasing. I have given you a new identity and it's in me. And I didn't even understand what that meant. I was just like, what? I don't know what you're talking about, but we had to dive into what did the... Nadine Dyer (13:50) Yeah, Yeah. Rebecca Hitchcock (14:00) What does that mean? And Lord help me understand this. I became a new creation. ⁓ 2 Corinthians 5: 21 says, he who knew no sin became sin. He didn't have to, but he did. He didn't even know it so that we might become the righteousness of God in Jesus Christ. That's our identity. Nadine Dyer (14:02) Yeah. Rebecca Hitchcock (14:27) That's acceptance. That's him being approved in this or us being approved by him. Nadine Dyer (14:32) Can you tell me Isaiah 61:7 again? Rebecca Hitchcock (14:35) Yes, it's very in the short paraphrase, instead of your shame, there will be a double portion. Nadine Dyer (14:38) Yes, I love. You know, it's almost like I'm almost like envisioning I'm so visual, right? But I'm almost envisioning like, hey, give me the shame cloud. It's like cast the shame and I'm going to give you a double portion. It's like, let's do a swap. Let's trade. And in me, instead of carrying all the shame that is not necessary, I will give you a double portion. I will be I will double bless you. Right. It's like, oh, cool. So I want to hear about your experience of like Rebecca Hitchcock (14:56) Yes! Nadine Dyer (15:13) how do you handle these shame clouds, right? Because we're human and they still will like creep up. How are some ways that you've been able to put on the double portion and not be walking under the shame clouds? Rebecca Hitchcock (15:26) Right. Well, we have to renew our mind constantly. I remember hearing them in scripture, says, take every thought captive. And I was like, my gosh, it's so overwhelming. How am going to take every thought captive? There's so many thoughts going on in this head. when you, especially if you've fought with depression, it's like, it's a whirlwind up there, right? But ⁓ if we can be still and slow down. Nadine Dyer (15:32) constantly. Yeah. Yes. Rebecca Hitchcock (15:56) and take ⁓ the first thought, know? What is the shame thing that you're not, what's something that you're feeling shameful about or not approved about? And I guarantee I could show everyone a scripture that's the opposite of what that is saying because ⁓ he is everything good. And we have an enemy that wants you to stay in bondage and under those shame clouds. And all of us ladies, unless, ⁓ We first acknowledge, yeah, I got a shame problem. I don't think I'm acceptable. I don't think God can forgive me of this. ⁓ We may not even want to draw close to God because we think he's mad at us. And he's not. He is so not mad at us. He's standing there with open arms and saying, come to me. That's what he's saying. He says, I have abundant life for you. Nadine Dyer (16:37) Yeah. Rebecca Hitchcock (16:52) But you think I'm mad at you. I'm not an angry God. I love you. And I don't want any of you to perish and not have abundant life. Nadine Dyer (17:05) Beautiful. Yeah. Rebecca Hitchcock (17:05) So we had to first get that in our heads and say, I can really come before you Lord and say, I committed adultery. I did this, you know whatever it may, all of it. Nadine Dyer (17:15) I cheated, I gossiped, I deceived, whatever it is, yep. Rebecca Hitchcock (17:19) We, I mean, you know we think we've, I, we've lived in three states and some nice suburbs and you think that everybody's got it all together and they drive their fancy cars and they look great and everything. But there was so much junk going on when we really got in the family rooms and we were vulnerable with each other. And we said, let's just lay it all before the Lord. What's going on? Because until you can get to a place of desperation where you can say here, it's yours. I don't want this anymore. I'm going to renew my mind to the truth that is in your word. I'm going to speak it out. It's intention. You have to be intentional about it. Like we weren't just reading words on a page. We were getting with the father in our quiet time saying, teach me. And he would, and there's an expectancy in that too saying, okay, if your word says instead of your shame, there will be a double portion. Simple verse. Well, what does that mean? Nadine Dyer (17:58) Yep. Yep. Yeah. Rebecca Hitchcock (18:18) Lord, show me. And then really knowing that you are accepted and approved that I will show you because I love you. Like we would even be like, well, I don't think he'll answer me. Right? Cause they think, I got to be this. No. If you look at the disciples, they were all very simple. They weren't anything. They were just wanting to know him. That's it. So we had to come to a place of saying, I'm done with this heavy load of this shame cloud. Nadine Dyer (18:19) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's it. That's it. Rebecca Hitchcock (18:46) I want to renew my mind to the truth. And then I need to hear the truth. So I'm going to repeat it instead of the junk that I hear in my head. And then believe it or not, because it is scriptural and I believe that the word is true. You start to see your life transformed because you're walking in truth. You're speaking it. And what you speak will affect your emotions and it will affect your behavior. So what you speak out of your mouth. comes in, goes down, and then you walk it out. Nadine Dyer (19:20) Yeah. This is, yeah, this makes so much sense. And I'm so excited to dive into our next episode where we really can talk about practical applications because I'm already jotting down a bunch of ideas and thoughts of like, how do I really remove these shame clouds and, you know, take my double portion, like proclaim it as my own. ⁓ Rebecca, thank you so much. This is a great topic, just something to really ponder and consider. Rebecca Hitchcock (19:22) Does that make sense? Yes. Nadine Dyer (19:48) Sister, we are so, so, so glad that you're here. Join us for the next episode where we really talk practical applications to how do we walk unashamed. ⁓ Rebecca, as we wrap up, is there anything you want to wrap up with as it pertains to this topic? Rebecca Hitchcock (20:06) I just want to encourage every single woman listening, take five minutes. If that's all you can give at this time, take five minutes and just sit down and say, I want to receive your love. I want to receive your double portion. Give me revelation knowledge. That means not just head knowledge, but a heart where I can understand. if I'm holding on to some shame thoughts or living under this shame cloud, not thinking I'm worthy enough to receive. If you can't even receive a compliment or receive, this was me, you you're dealing with shame. Can't even receive a compliment. But I think there's things that have been done to us, things that have not been done to us, where the enemy loves that. He wants us to live under that, because then we won't receive the double portion that God has designed for us to have. Nadine Dyer (21:12) Yeah. Well, I love that exercise. I'm like already getting emotional just thinking about taking that and sitting with this. So thank you so much, Rebecca. I'm so excited to dive into practical applications on this topic. Sister, you are so loved. We are so, so, so grateful that you are here and we will talk to you soon.