mergeconflict280 === [00:00:00] James: Frank Krueger CX day. [00:00:12] Frank: Oh, we've been waiting for this for a long time. I've been waiting to get rid of that hyphen preview, hyphen RC, hyphen beta, hyphen, whatever we are hyphened less James. Today we are dotnet 6.0. Point 100. I don't know where the a hundred came from, but we're point 100 X a feel-good. [00:00:31] James: Yeah. I don't know where the point 100 comes through, but it's always point 100 or whatever the main release is now, actually we're recording on dotnet comp day, the keynote day, day one, uh, but accurately, uh, surprisingly yesterday, the eighth was the launch a surprise Monday sneak attack for Don at six. By the way, you could've got all the bits yesterday. Cause visual studio 2022 launched yesterday with Don Essex. [00:00:56] Frank: I, and here this whole time, I thought I had to wait for the keynote for all these things to be released. So I'd even bother looking. I don't know what I was doing, but I obviously wasn't paying attention to Twitter or anything. No, I waited till today and I almost caught the beginning of the keynote. It was 8:00 AM. I almost got the beginning and then a. I spent the day installing.net six, because I was so happy to get rid of the preview. I really wanted to try it out. So I sat on the couch. I watched, uh, I watched the conference on the TV and I programmed.net six stuff just to see if, uh, the stuff [00:01:31] James: worked nice. Yeah. What did you think of the keynote? [00:01:36] Frank: It was good. It's it's it's your, uh, standard Microsoft let's show you a million things. Keynote. It was quite the whirlwind, but wow. They've really, uh, um, mentioned the hot reload a lot. That was fun because it's a pretty standout feature. It's pretty amazing. And they had the insane demo of run everything everywhere. Kind of demo. So that was a bit insane. Then there was the podcast app and we have to talk about the podcast app because we got a shout out on there and that's pretty cool. And I, I have a feeling you had something to do with it, but I might have to put you on the record for that. [00:02:13] James: So I got a, I got handed the, the, the. The privilege and the honor to, to work on the keynote, uh, application and some of the demo flow, uh, with, uh, niche. Uh, my team is Shaneal and then, uh, also, uh, another amazing team at plain concepts where they, we work a lot with them on different keynote apps and whatnot to stress test. The trust has everything basically, and build out some awesome demos. So yeah, this thing was. It was kind of the entire keynote. So, you know, Scott Hunter came on, he talked a little bit about minimal. He talked about, you know, a bunch of different things there. Uh, Maria came on talking about minimal API and then they kind of jumped into the podcast. And the podcast app itself is a traditional podcast app, but it has a web app. It has a mobile and desktop client. It has backend services. Those services are microservices. Uh, it has a marketing landing page. It has. Uh, really cool functionality with signal R and it uses the new Azure container apps that we talked about last week. Probably I'll go listen to all of it. And now, you know why I was talking about Azure container apps. Cause all the things are in Azure container apps and David foller, um, demos, all that stuff too. But, uh, yeah, I liked the, the journey, uh, of, of, of the podcast app. It was one app, right? I think that was kind of cool. And it was a realistic app. Like this was something that, you know, people, I think people would build this. People have this thing, Frank. Sure. [00:03:44] Frank: It's demo apps are tricky. Cause I was almost about to make that complaint that it was too big and too realistic because like demo apps, it should be able to like jump in and see exactly what you want to see. But the problem with that approach is you end up with 8,000 sample apps and then you're searching around for every little component. There's a real fine line. I think in making samples, should they be complicated? And this one, I think straddles that line pretty decently. You just named a million technologies. And honestly, I only understood half of them as much as I love the containers. I really need to go back and read, listen to our episode and rewatch David Fowler's part because I'm still, we'll say I'm 70% there, 60% there. [00:04:26] James: And I think here's, what's, what's nice about this. As I'm working on the team on the open sourcing of it is, is we're going to enable you to deploy. Uh, to just a simple app service, it's just a web API. You don't have to put it in a container, so you can just deploy some, some things in app service and be like, okay, cool. I deployed a web app backend, right. And it deployed a blazer app or whatever into the backend. And then, boom, you're good to go for your backend servers if you don't want to containerize it and do all the stuff. Um, but yeah, you know, sometimes you gotta squeeze in new features. I agree is it is a, it is a fine balanced line. Um, When there's a lot of other pieces of tech, right? Cause like, let's say you're only focusing in on, we're going to build a backend. We're going to build the front end, like yeah. You know, but what, what happened is, and then here's all the new features and here's how you can containerize it. And here's how you can do these things. Uh, so you can pack a lot of punch into the, the other things that you can do once you build these apps. [00:05:27] Frank: Yeah, and we should say it in case you haven't seen the video. This is a blazer app. This, uh, dotnet six keynote and pretty much all the videos, not the videos, the presentations afterwards were blazer blazer, blazer, blazer. So this is definitely the Europe blazer. Um, that said, uh, they showed off the cool, um, uh, Maui technology of turning year. Normally website, laser app into a little mobile app, or maybe a little desktop app, embedding it into the Maui. And that was good. I, uh, people have been talking about that and it was nice to see something big, do it because it's pretty easy to put a web view in an app and then get something running there. It all. It all getting all those container things to work, talking to the API, doing all that stuff, getting something decent up and running. It is good to have a big example showing that off. Um, especially I've written. Four or five blazer apps now. And I'm still not sure if I'm doing my architecture. Right. What I kind of love is it doesn't care. Pfizer's pretty forgiving on architectures. You can do whatever you want. And so I found my own kind of happy, sweet spot and how I do everything. I'm really curious to see just exactly, you know, the classic app architecture stuff. How does the data model talk to the services? How does that talk to the UI? How does all that flow work? It will be fun to see, um, how the professionals do it too. So demos are fun for that. [00:07:04] James: Yeah. It'd be a fun one to, for people to take a look at the code on and, you know, the, the, the cool part about the, the entirety of this was there was a lot that you can get today. Right? So everything up until Maui is GA. So when we talk about. Um, when we talk about obviously minimal API APIs, C-sharp 10, which, you know, Mads was there talking about, we talk about, you know, Azure support for dotnet six. And we talk about GitHub actions support. When we talk about visual studio, support, all those, all those things and blazer and all the new things such as the new trimming technology and all this other stuff, which is really spectacular is all in there, which is really, really cool. So there's a lot of, um, really. Neat piece of technology available today. And then of course, for us, we care quite a lot about that. Uh, dotnet Maui bits and pieces and you know, that's coming. So I think it was cool that Maddie was showing off, Hey, here's the native UI you can mix and match. And then later on, along in a separate session showed you put the whole thing in there. If you want, you can do what you want, uh, which is cool. But, uh, you Frank, you, you installed the bits. Uh, you were inspired, correct? The bits are. [00:08:18] Frank: Yeah. Yeah. Um, I should say it's, it's not all marketing too. There've been some really nice sessions. There was the C-sharp 10 session with mats. I think you mentioned that was a fun one. I think I've already seen one or two of his presentations on it, but this was a fun one because sorry, who was the other person was at Duncan. Dustin. Dustin. I'm sorry, Dustin, if you listen, I'm so sorry. I forget your name wrong. Um, uh, they're a fun duet. They, they really play well off of each other and it was fun. Seeing them play with the code and play around with the C-sharp 10 features. I want my C sharp 10. I want all of this deep down, I'm just a language person. I'm just in love with programming languages. So of course I had to go get the bits. You know, the whole reason I got that now was I fell in love with C sharp and I kept thinking like, wow, it's getting really close to half sharp, but I've really got to get this stuff. So, yeah, I, uh, I didn't know it was released the day before, so that's good. But when this podcast comes out, everyone should be able to go get it. I installed it on my air because let's do things on hard mode. You know, let's not make this easy. I'm sure like windows X 86 works like perfect. Like, you know, I'm not even there yet, but I'm like, no, let's do this on a Mac on an M one hair. So I even downloaded the, uh, arm 64. Installed that it seemed to have installed. It installed very quickly. I did my classic dotnet info and oh my God, I have way too many dot nuts installed on machines. Even, even my poor little air has like 8,000 dot nets on it. Anyway, the new one was there. It seemed to be running.net. New console console works great. Absolutely loved it. Um, and even though you can, yes. Maui was not a part of this release. I always coming later, I still of course, had to try Maui. I mean, we're mobile developers. So I spent most of my day playing around with, uh, not Maui per se, but building iOS and Mac catalyst stuff. Uh, without meds. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I had to try the C-sharp 10 stuff first because I want my namespace colon, not namespace and curly. I told you, I told him I want it. I know we did a whole episode on it and I want it. I haven't been able to do it in any of my code and. It works, but like my vs code was messing up. So unfortunately it's still, it's not beta summer anymore, but bits are still warm and you gotta wait for IDs to catch up and all that stuff. Uh, so I did not get my, uh, semi-colon namespace. It does work at the command line, but, uh, the IDs is not supporting it yet. So I was a little sad there. [00:11:06] James: But, [00:11:08] Frank: but there is so much good stuff because I absolutely had to try Mack catalyst because during all the previews I've been trying iOS and Mac, how do I spot a one thing or another, I could not get anything working. The previous were a little too hot for me and they just weren't working for me, but I just kind of followed the instructions this time. I tried a.net new. And it said. Well, it made it for me, but it's like, go get the new template because I did hear and dot dotnet com preview 10 is out. So that's as of this podcast, that's the current one. Uh, so I wanted to go get that. So I deleted that directory got the new templates. It told you how to update your templates. Uh, I got those, did the dot and I filled and it's like, Hey, you got to go download some more stuff. I'm like, great. I love downloading stuff, but they make it real easy. There's a. Actually, no, I take that back. I think the error message could be a little bit better. Cause I had to Google around a little bit, but basically you have to say.net workload install. Maui, or you can say a specific Maui, I think, but I just went for the whole Maui. Give me, give me all the Maoris I did that, that worked. Um, I tried to build, of course Android didn't build because I don't have the right API of Android because Android, so. Killed got rid of the Android and then everything else was actually working. iOS, built a Mac catalyst built. I try to run iOS, but, uh, I think the tooling is still needs a little updating because it's like, I don't know how to run this. And I'm like, Darn you you're new. You're not going to get it all to me, Xamarin. So it built, but it didn't run, which is a little funny because it's not too hard to get something to run in the simulator. I feel like I could almost write a dotnet tool to just take the output a dotnet six and toss it up on a simulator, but it's always a debate be patient or build your own tools either way. So I went for the Mac catalyst and chains. It ran perfectly nice. It was. [00:13:15] James: Yeah, I saw that I saw the, you, uh, went in and, or in vs code and modified a modified a way, which is pretty cool. Yeah. You know, I think that the, the Don at workload install Mallee, what that does is it actually brings in all of the dependencies too. So it brings in all the other workloads. So like, if you just wanted to go in. And say, Hey Donna. Um, I think workload install, mat catalyst. I think that would just bring in just a matte catalyst, but Mallory will bring in all of them, all your iOS, Android, whatever, all the, all the stuff that you need. Plus the Maui workload too. And then you would be able to do Don a new Maui. With the templates and things like that. So, yeah. So it's, it's a mix and match piece of technology since, uh, you know, you, you get to pick what platforms you want. Most people I think will just click Maui, just give them everything and then done. Right. Keep it simple. Yeah, it's fine. Because like you said, right, the Android stuff, uh, you know, it doesn't the, the command line doesn't install that other stuff. And when you install from visual studio, it also doesn't install that stuff either. So if you're on visual studio on windows, It basically is doing the net, you know, workload install, Maui. When you open visual studio, you'd be like, Hey, you know, make sure you have this X code and Hey, make sure you have this Android SDK and Hey, make sure you have this other stuff as sort of a first run configuration compared to the, uh, Mallee check tool that John Dick had worked on for a long time, very early on, uh, which is kind of been, I don't think it's deprecated at this point, but you know, I think in there is getting there, especially once the IDs and things like that come out, but I do think it will be. I think it will still be required. It'd be good if the team has that only because think about it. Um, you know, what, if you don't want to use visual studio or visual studio for Mac, right. And you do want to use vs code and stuff like that. At some point you would want to. Figure out how to, you know, get your machine configured in the right way. Um, flutter has something, a flutter doctor basically, and that's a command line tool that verifies that all of the things are installed correctly on your machine. So very similar and in a way probably inspired by. So that would be, that would be nice, but I would think that will be really cool if it was like, Dot net Maui check or whatever, you know what I mean? Like it was built into the.net CLI that you installed. That would be. [00:15:41] Frank: Yeah. Um, for sure, but I almost feel like the error messages just need to be improved. Like they are so close. The problem is that they're just restraining themselves to like one sentence. So they're trying to be terse and convey information. Just turn that into a couple paragraphs with some Google links or something, you know, explain to me exactly what's missing. Where did you learn? What is the 80% probable solution that I need to go do to go do that? Um, I almost. That's easier. I'd rather just have some handholding, but if there's a precedent for a tool like that, I'm okay with that tool too, honestly. It's I had no problem running Maui check. I just heard also that it all should work without Molly check right now. And, uh, it does. So I proved that. I was totally willing to go back to Maui check if none of this worked and honestly, to get that Android stuff working, I probably will use Maui check just because I have no idea where Android's installed. I don't know where dot nets looking for Android. I don't know any of that stuff. There's probably a blog post out there about it somewhere, [00:16:49] James: but yeah. And when visual studio for Mac 2022 comes out and it'll figure it all out for you. I don't have to worry about it, Frank and the previews out. I think they dropped a pre. As well [00:16:59] Frank: somewhere there is a new version. I have to go check it out. I checked out a version from maybe a couple months ago. It's coming along. It didn't let me change my colors though. I need to be able to change my colors before I can use it. I'm just barely just kidding there. Um, but. I can report that at least on my current version of it'll studio 2019. It did not like opening my dotnet six project in ways. Not happy about it. [00:17:27] James: No, no, no. It is. It is not about that life. It's all about that 20 I've been living in the 20 20th and 2022 on windows. Again. I also have it on a Mac. Use it a bit here and there just kind of dogfooding it. Um, uh, but the windows version I've been super the static about obviously it's 64 bit it's loads, everything super quick. There's a lot more customization. The theming is fully feasible and customizable. In fact, Mads Christianson did a demo and I'll put it in the show notes. If I remember, uh, or you just go to his visual studio, YouTube, which is how to turn any vs code theme into a visual studio. For windows theme, basically because it's fully themed and customizable. And in fact, now there's like a theme category in the marketplace, which is really, really cool. But if you had your own crazy funky theme, you could just export it and kind of, you know, there's this little wizard to create your own theme, which is cool. So I'm going to do this demo. Um, Wherever, rather than DMVs live. I'm going to do this demo where I take you the default red theme of visual studio code, which I'm so, or sorry, visual studio code. Yeah. Uh, that I'm so glad exists. And it's not like my default because I've been doing this demo. It's just like, and I opened it on some teams call them people like what is going on? I was like, oh, this is my default red theme. Um, and then I'm going to turn that into a visual studio theme. And it like works pretty awesome actually. [00:18:48] Frank: So that's fine. I feel like I always miss out a little bit on these events because I don't use visual studio every day and I love visual studio. It was one of my first IDs. I still love it. I just don't use it. So I don't get all those same pleasures. Everyone else is. So I don't, I don't wanna, um, I don't want to leave it, not talked about James. So do you have any like top UI features that just can make me really sad that you've been playing with that you kind of love? I'm just curious, like, I'm honestly just asking you off the cuff. Oh, [00:19:21] James: tell me. Well, one I've been using a lot on windows 11. I'm absolutely fantastically loving it. Um, I would say, you know, one of my favorite things that I've been really enjoying and Mika did a session, uh, at Donnette comp as well, all about productivity features and the ID. And just things like the editor can fig um, has now an analyzers tab and Don at six includes all these analyzers, which just puts all this stuff automatically in there. One of my new favorite features that they did is they call it, uh, navigate. It's like, it's kinda like, I think it's a hierarchical navigation, um, or inheritance navigation. That's what it is. Inheritance navigation. So think of it like this. Imagine you have. A bunch of classes and a bunch of things are inherited and some things implement an interface. You know, how are you going to figure out where that stuff is now in the gutter? On the left-hand side, there's this little icon that will show you anything, uh, that inherits from that or any of the things that this thing implements and you can like navigate to the code really easily. It's super cool. Uh, Ooh. My other one Kendra showed this off in her session. Um, testing. So just running tasks. Oh [00:20:37] Frank: wait. Okay. I w let me do this one, because I was a little jelly here. Uh, so we, we did a whole episode where I was talking about how, um, the hot reload technology works. It's really interesting. I'm totally in love with it, you know, and all of that discussion, it never even occurred to me. And this shows you what kind of programmer I am. It never even occurred to me to apply it to testing. Just how regulatory that's going to be for testing and coming up with new test case and playing around and really shortening up that dev cycle. The test dev cycle is already pretty short, but making it, you know, if you can do like small changes that have big impact on tests and, uh, and it can do it all very quickly. It's very exciting. So I have no idea what you were going to talk about, but that feature looked amazing. Well, that [00:21:24] James: one was really cool. He has hot reload for testing, which I think is, which is really neat. Uh, the other one that she showed off was remote testing, which enables you to run your tasks in one of four ways. One, which we've always done, which is run on my local machine. That makes sense. Right? Like I'm running it, but what if Frank, you need to, I don't know, have a test and do some tests for like linen. Well, you can spin up a Docker container and you can say, Hey, run my tests inside this Docker container. [00:21:55] Frank: Uh, so it's like dev containers, but test containers. Yeah. Test [00:21:59] James: containers because containers. Yeah. Yep. And you make these tests container can take, make test environments. And one of them is a test container. Yeah. Um, [00:22:10] Frank: I'd like, it, it makes sense. Cause I would've just used the dev one for that, but that's not even realistic. You want something actually closer to production than dev for running your tests. So that makes sense. No, [00:22:21] James: the other one is you can just say, Hey, run this NWSL, [00:22:28] Frank: but okay. Sure. So that's container lists, but you want to run it in Linux? [00:22:34] James: Okay. Yes, no. Now here's the last one, right? Via a remote machine via SSL. [00:22:43] Frank: Oh, boy, don't you jump? She just love networking over SSH. That's great. Yeah. I mean, I, because I have my, uh, I have my Lennox neural network computer, and I'm actually unfortunately SSA chain into it all the time. And I actually really appreciate apps that can control a remote machine. So that's actually kinda nice. Yeah, it [00:23:05] James: was really cool. She showed a demo where she's on a windows 11 machine and then. She went to as a Sage and it's any VM inside of Azure. That's windows 10 that she's testing the code on, which is just like mind boggling by boggling. [00:23:24] Frank: You get lost in notes, demos. You're like what's connected to the who and the website, but yeah, [00:23:31] James: this is neat. So there's all that stuff. I mean, of course there's all the hot reload stuff that [00:23:36] Frank: we talked about. The Chrome or the icons, different [00:23:38] James: icons are all different themes are all different. Uh, the get integrated. Um, you know, even better than it was 2019, uh, they have all sorts of good stuff there. I do like one thing in it as well, which is better integration with GitHub actions. And what I mean by that is if I just like click on my action Yammel file, it will open like a preview and allow me to tweak settings on it, like in a designer mode. Um, but it also will, since. The get repository that it's connected to, it will show me the build status and the last successful things from get hub, which is really cool. So I can be like, oh, like, oh, yesterday I deployed this to wherever or it was built or there's, you know, whatever I'm on, whatever branch I'm on and get like real time information back inside of visual studio. So I thought that was really neat. [00:24:31] Frank: Yeah. Okay. That one got. You know, I, I love editor improvements. I don't know if I need more analyzers to be thoroughly honest, but having the actions right in the IDE, I mean, it's an integrated development environment. I feel terrible. Every time I have to go to the web to do more work. So I, I love having that in there. That's pretty good for too good. Yeah. [00:24:54] James: There's all sorts of tweaks and tunes. Oh, one thing I really like. Um, and then we'll, we'll. 'cause I mean, cause you know, there was like a, there was a huge week, like visual studio, 22 and also Donna Essex and all this other stuff. Yeah. But there's this one thing which is, uh, you know, the tabs, like when you open a code file, it's like a tab I'm going to call it a tab code tab. Right? [00:25:15] Frank: What, like an editor, [00:25:18] James: like when you open a visual studio and you click on a file and you open another file in another file in another file there tabs on the top and visuals. Yep. Sure you can now colorize them. Ha uh, and you can give them max, max widths as well, which is cool. You can colorize them based on the project they're in or based on the file extension. [00:25:46] Frank: Oh, see, I don't want that. I just want to do like, um, uh, I keep saying outlook. I don't mean outlook. What's the notes app from what's the office notes app. Everyone loves to do one note. One note, I just, I want all my code to look like one. I want colored file folders everywhere. Ah, I'm jealous. Why don't all ideas do this. I would totally color code things. It would be wacko, but it would give me like something to do while I was thinking about a different problem. So can I just pick a color for a file or does it have to be like some kind of rule? [00:26:19] James: That's a good question. I, I think you, when you go in, you just say colorize and I think you can override the color, something. Okay. When I [00:26:28] Frank: pause it, I kind of love the idea of picking colors for all my files, because they get totally lost up there. Oh, I'm going to add that feature to continue. Yeah, that'd be the weirdest feature to have. Yeah. So I was, um, I was having fun. I got the, the Maui working and it had the click counter demo. The demo that will exist forever. There's a button says, click me, click it. And the counter goes up. Yes. I was very happy to get that working, uh, under the Mac catalyst, but I had to try something, James, and you don't me. I just had to try because. Because I installed this giant workload. I had no idea what was actually on my machine or anything. So I wanted to know just, and I'm pretty sure you could do it. Like, can you just build a native UI without going through Maui? Can I build a UI kit app or something like that? So I was curious, um, there aren't two. Templates for that, or I wasn't able to find the right template or anything. So I ended up, but just butchering, just butchering the poor Maui project, just, you know, deleting things, moving things around and all that. And I was really impressed. I was able to get it down to a tiny little app, delegate, you know, classic little iOS app and everything built and ran just fine under dotnet six. It's so weird. It's so weird that these worlds. Combined that I can just build native UIs for that. I'm sure you, you knew all this stuff, but it was great for me to get confirmed that even though there's Maui out there, you can still write a native UI. If you're a weirdo, like, [00:28:09] James: no, it's very true. You can definitely, definitely do that. Which is, which is correct. Yeah. Yup. [00:28:16] Frank: Yup. The reason I did. That was for a practical reason too. I wanted to know if I could port my apps over to my catalyst, because remember that's been a goal of mine for years at this point. Um, As much as I love advocate, uh, I think I'm pretty happy just writing everything in UI kit and being able to run it on both platforms. And so I wanted to actually try porting one of my apps over to, uh, dotnet six and Mac catalyst. And I was nervous like at first I was going to do I circuit, but I was like, you know, I already have a Mac version of I circuit. So it was which app do I have that I don't actually have a Mac version of. Right. So I came down to continuous, which I absolutely want to. That's the one I actually want to get running on Mac, but I was afraid I was scared James, because continuous is huge. I wouldn't be [00:29:06] James: scared. [00:29:08] Frank: So I decided to, uh, convert Mo cast [00:29:11] James: over a podcast app. Another pocket. [00:29:13] Frank: I know it was really on theme. I, I felt like today was the podcast day. So how cool is that? Did we mention that they mentioned that. In the, [00:29:21] James: in the demo, the dead we, our logo was on there. I was hoping that someone would pick one of our podcasts and start playing with that did not happen. So darn it. Yeah. [00:29:30] Frank: Programming language ones, one of the machine learning ones. Well, uh, so I want to say the conversion went pretty good. Wow. I ran it. Yeah. So, uh, I wasn't sure what the right approach. To go was so I decided I just took that really hacked up Maui app. It really did not look anything like the original template, but it gave me a starting point, you know? Uh, so I took that hacked up one kind of just copied it over to the Mo cast directory and. Crazy thing you can do in CS proj files, where you say compile include, uh, I had to go back a directory.dot/podcast/star star slash start out CS, which means just include all the code. Good luck to you. Just include everything. And that just brought in all the code for the iOS project. Billion errors, but I worked through them each one by one, they actually weren't that bad. It was mostly, you know, missing a new, get here, missing a new get there. I did find out that poor old system dot Jason. Uh, may you not live forever? It seems pretty gone. And I don't know why James, I don't know. I must've been in a weird mood. I decided to use system dot Jason to do the tiny bit of Jason parsing. I have, I don't know why you would do that because I'm an old timer and. I really don't so that thing's gone. So I had to rewrite that using system dot TX dot Jason. But of course that code was way better in the end. I don't, I really don't know why I was using system Jason, cause it was there [00:31:09] James: because it was [00:31:10] Frank: there. That's why, that's why I hate dependencies. And now it's system dot text. Jason. So that's good. Uh, got that in. Uh, there were there, there's a few little weird networking things going on, but the app. Popped up. It was there and I was so happy, so, so happy. Um, I, you know, it's not the first time I've seen it run under Mac had catalyst. I actually got that working with my somewhat hackey version back in the day. But I would say this was running better than my version of her did, and I haven't fully investigated it as in, you know, Maui still not released none of this stuff's official. I don't know if we can actually put it up on the app store, but gosh, James, it seems awfully close to being able to put it up on the app store. So I need to look into it some more, but I am very pleased with the progress I just made. [00:32:02] James: Yeah, I feel like I'm looking at you a little video on your Twitter. You just check out Frank's Twitter and you can find it. But, you know, I, I feel as though it, it looks pretty good. You might want to invest in a collection view instead of a, a UI table view for your podcast. But besides that, it does look pretty solid and no, actually, you know, at the keynote. Um, Scott Hunter talked about, I think it was Pronto pay. I want to say they're using Don MLA blazer in production today for the rap. Yeah. You know what I mean? There's not a go live license if you will, on, on it, but nothing's going to stop you from, if it, if it compiles, whatever works, you know, and I think that you're right. I've only unmet catalyst. We've seen. Just like when you, I three and windows, like there's some quirks, even from moving from UWP, there's some quirks on mat catalyst. Like for example, I think the code compiles to check cellular network and the essentials library. But if you try to call it a crash, Right because it's like, oh, this doesn't exist with a Mac catalyst. And you're like, oh, come on now, apple. So you have to comment that, which makes sense, because Mac books don't have cellular chips, but eventually they will. So that will light up. I have to assume, uh, you know what I mean? But, uh, yeah, so it's cool that you just got to work. [00:33:18] Frank: Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to ride on it cause it's super impressive, but it's funny. Cause I, I actually got a weird, um, networking, but is the one that I ran into. I was using HTP client and there's a flag on it. Something like, uh, use automatic decompression, whatever. It's it's the flag saying, please send me compressed data. Web server. And for some reason when you turn that on it crashes with the most gnarly exception you've ever seen. So it's funny, a tiny little edge cases like that, but it's sad because I haven't been posting too many bugs against dotnet six because, uh, honestly the previous were a little rough. I wasn't able to do very good testing of it, but now that I have a working app and everything, it's really easy for me to come up with a simple test case for them. Call this API with this flag, Bing bang, boom. We can file our bugs. So I'm really excited. This is, this is a couple years coming to me that I've been waiting for this moment. So I'm just a little bit Getty. Uh, debugging is absolutely horrendous that doesn't work at all. You have to do print F debugging and even that's a little bit tricky cause like Mac apps hide all that stuff. Uh, so it's definitely. Uh, a smooth experience right now. So I highly look forward to vs 22 and the official releases and all that. But that said that this is pretty great for them not promising the feature, but it's still working pretty [00:34:44] James: darn good. What about, uh, Donna watch run. Did you hot reload that. [00:34:49] Frank: Oh, I hot reload, everything. But unfortunately for the, um, Mac app, it did not seem to work. I think it's a little bit funny because, uh, dot net watch prefers when you run things through the.net tool, but the way. I know, I don't even know the details around it, but it seems the way the Mac catalyst app gets packaged up, that it's not able to do its normal injection tricks. But if, you know, for sure, I'm going to be filing that bug and being like, Hey, Hey, you know, we need some hot reload over here in the, in the Mac catalyst world. And who knows, maybe it's just my machine too. Maybe that does actually [00:35:27] James: work well. I'll have to see, because I know that Maddie, during the keynote showed the Mac catalyst podcast app and did hot reload. I'm pretty sure [00:35:38] Frank: might might've might be my machine might be user error, everyone. [00:35:41] James: She did it from, she did it from visual studio, 2022 for Mac preview. So who, I don't know, maybe there's something funky going on there, you know? [00:35:49] Frank: Yeah, I was trying mine from the command line. So I will definitely have to install the new preview of 20, 22. Yeah. Looking forward to it. [00:35:58] James: Um, a lot of good stuff. I'm really excited. I mean, there's, you know, there's some more days of stuff to come at dinette comp I've been focusing on by talks and, but watching, I've been watching, I've watched a lot, this, this one because I'm giving so many talks. I'm like, I need to get caught up and I'm a manager. So I'm like, Um, very [00:36:17] Frank: often Sanderson has a low level AOT, one coming up. Uh, so I'm looking forward to that. And by the time everyone's listening to this podcast is probably been released to YouTube or something. So go find his low level IOT discussion because, uh, I keep saying IOT, but what I really mean to say is what the assembly, I'm just really interested in packaging up.net apps to be really tiny. I mean, these days we've gotten.net apps down to like four megabytes. I think it's fine. Honestly. I think that's fine, but I love seeing them in their endless pursuit of how tiny can we make these apps? [00:36:51] James: Oh yeah. Did you see. Uh, what's his name? Dan Roth, during the keynote, he showed the new trimming of web assembly with the WebAssembly build tools and the Wassom load went down to 300 kilobytes or something like that. [00:37:07] Frank: Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about. He gave a shout out to this talk that I'm looking forward to the next day. So that seemed really impressive. I've been in the wisdom space for a few years. I mean, we started out at like 13, Meg got down to eight Meg, and then at some point it got down to five. Megan, we're like, it's fine. It's fine. Five is enough and have fun. Nope. They kept going. It's fun. [00:37:30] James: Yeah, you always want it smaller, faster, and more productive with all the brand new features. I think it's really cool. There's all sorts of good stuff. And, you know, we can only really cover the top of it, but basically it's like the fastest release of a Donna Essex and the best release ever. I mean, they're always the best release, but this one's. So I feel solid. I also, you know, I didn't, I didn't have a lot of apps that ran on that five because, you know, Xamarin, Xamarin forms, you know, never made that migration. But what a lot of people have been saying is that it's been really easy for them to. Progress their applications. Have you had like an asp.net app or a blazer app, you can easily sort of move it, which is kind of cool. [00:38:07] Frank: Yeah. Uh, I should say my.net three apps are upgraded.net six. Just fine. So I've, I've not had any issues, but oh, there's always some kind of like asp.net start-up thing that they changed, but always ignore that they can't help themselves. So if you ignore that, uh, they've all gone over pretty smooth. I think I made this joke the last time, Mike. Console app and web app part of.net has been so solid lately. Mike, I feel bad that we don't even talk about it because it's just a given there that running in that mode, just running console apps, just running huge web servers, just, just Justin scare tags. That stuff is running so well. And, uh, yeah, especially with that hot reload magic. Oh yeah. [00:38:52] James: Yeah. It's super all. Oh, my goodness, Frank, frankly, [00:38:56] Frank: talking about this forever, because I'm just going to be doing more terrible experiments with Dutton at six. So we'll be talking about forever, especially as, uh, Maui approaches release. That's the one we can look forward to forever. The endless beta summer continues for me. Yes. [00:39:11] James: I agree with that 100%. Oh my goodness. How about you guys? I mean, we're 40 minutes in, but I think that, um, just go watch this stuff basically. That's my big takeaway from. [00:39:21] Frank: There are a lot of videos too. So I was doing the live stream all day. And then I looked at my YouTube and I noticed there were like 800 videos posted. And Mike, James, what are these? And you explained it to me, there was a bunch of, I don't want to call them side topics, but videos, side, topic, videos of things that, um, if you were only watching the live stream, you would've missed. Cause I missed them and I look forward to going back and, uh, watching a million little bit. [00:39:50] James: Yeah, it is a really cool thing. Uh, Jamie, uh, on the team worked on that, uh, um, we were talking about some of our favorite things of other conferences of, of like, you know, sometimes there's these nice little bits and pieces that get shoved into a session, you know, or they get, you know, they don't have time to make it into a keynote or sometimes they get cut from a session in general. And there's a lot of so many teams working on projects. Maybe not every team can even get a session, right. There's only so many hours in a day. So Jamie worked with all the amazing PMs and engineers and they whipped up like 20 some odd videos, uh, which was cool. And the same thing for visual studio, 22, if you go to the visual studio, YouTube, there's like, you know, 20 some odd videos and they're all, you know, three to eight minutes basically. So you can binge these things and learn all sorts of really cool stuff. In fact, I'm about to go watch one from Dan because he, he demo this, um, at the keynote and I have no idea how he did it, but he has one it's called. Blazer, WebAssembly runtime really linking the one that you're talking about. And in two minutes he shows us off basically. Um, and I don't know, that's just, I feel like I could just go back over and over and over again and probably watch that. [00:40:58] Frank: Yeah. I, and I like your idea of the binge, because I feel like I'm just going to put them on loop and just, just start them out. Let, let them like break into my brain. As I continue to see the extent of what that net six can do. It's fun. Good good YouTube binge. This one, this one's worthwhile. I won't feel too bad or, you know, won't have too much of a hangover the next day from it. Nice. [00:41:24] James: All right. Well, I think that's going to do it probably for this podcast, Frank. I think that's probably what's going to happen is, um, That's the thing we're going to call it, [00:41:33] Frank: but we didn't give enough shout outs to Hanselman. So Hanselman did a great job being ringleader in him and Jamie up there were really fun. So I just want to make sure I give shout outs to all the hosts because these conferences are a pain in the butt. I appreciate them all going through the effort and doing this so that we can have our fun little release parties and all that. So yeah, everyone [00:41:56] James: at Microsoft's. Yeah. It's cool to see all of our friends up there. So yes. It's nice. Well, good. Check it out. I'll put links or you can go to Donna comp.net to check out all the good stuff there, but I think it's going to do it for this week's merge conflict, Frank. So until next time I'm James bounceback now [00:42:11] Frank: and I'm Frank Krueger. Thanks for this.