00:00.40 James Welcome back, everyone, to Merge Conflict, your weekly developer podcast. I'm back, Frank, live from San Fran, Tokyo. 00:06.87 Frank Oh my gosh. I mean, are you ever at home anymore? It feels like you're always coming back from a trip. I can't wait to find out where you're back from next week, but it's good. It's good. I actually got to see you riding around in um autonomous vehicles, if I'm not mistaken, in the futuristic land of what was it called? 00:27.09 James San Francisco, San Francisco, which I think is from big, ah big hero six, if I want to say, yeah. 00:27.93 Frank Okay. Okay. 00:31.88 Frank Okay, got it. How was the... I have to ask, we'll talk about all the important tech stuff, but let's talk about the most important tech thing first. so Did you survive your car ride with the robot driving you? 00:43.96 James I took six on the first day. 00:45.18 Frank Nice. 00:47.31 James I'm all in. 00:47.82 Frank You spent like 600 bucks then? how How much were these rides? 00:51.74 James No, they're like you know they're subsidized right now, that's for sure. 00:53.89 Frank How are they? 00:54.74 James So I i feel as though yeah right now, as far as like Waymo trying to get mass adoption out there, they're definitely subsidizing them. 00:54.65 Frank Okay. 01:04.39 James It's hard to say because it's a lot of traffic. 01:04.11 Frank Okay. 01:06.39 James It's a lot of like really slow traffic. uh, roads in San Francisco where it can be, you can't go on highways. 01:09.39 Frank Okay, yeah. 01:11.26 James Right. But you know, most of the trips were like anywhere from like nine to, you know, 20 bucks, basically. 01:15.58 Frank Okay. 01:16.82 James Um, some of the further ones around all of it were like 40 bucks, but it really just kind of depends on the distance and then the traffic and the time. But, you know, it's kind of like, 01:28.11 James the the here's the The TLDR is this, is the start of the ride and the end of the ride awkward, and I'll explain why. The middle part of the ride where you're actually riding in the car, totally normal and really smooth because it is autonomous and it knows how to see and understand that there's a stop sign. 01:37.41 Frank Okay. 01:40.67 Frank Cool. Hmm. 01:49.50 James It takes exact time. 01:49.17 Frank It's not pulling three G's. 01:51.52 James it it it takes the exact same The exact same turn, the exact same slowdown, the exact same acceleration. Like it's very you it's really expect, which is kind of nice so because a lot of times people are like with electric cars. 02:00.48 Frank Yeah. Yeah. 02:03.68 James so But is that it's a nice car. It's a Jaguar, which I've like never been in. I don't think so. 02:07.45 Frank Yeah. 02:08.28 James That seemed cool. um And then besides that, like the experience is pretty cool. It's like, Hey James, and you can like change music, you know, and it's, it like knows you. And then it doesn't say anything or do anything. 02:19.17 James But the good part is that you can kind of just hail it from everywhere. 02:18.78 Frank yeah 02:23.93 James There's like a bajillion, so you can get one within like a minute. You can just get in. Um, you just have an unlock from, from the phone. The good part is that like, if you're like in your car and you want to talk to people, you want to take a call, you want something. It's not awkward because another person there. 02:39.29 James And Waymo says the the microphones aren't on. The downside of that is like, it's kind of like this glimpse in this dystopian future where like, we're all very isolated and it's just like us, you know what I mean? 02:49.98 James It's like, there's a sad part of that. 02:49.88 Frank Yeah. 02:51.62 James So I took a mixture of Ubers and Waymo's. I i tended to do Waymo's because they were like very, very fast to pick up and and AB b tested it as well. 02:57.91 Frank A, B test. Good. 03:01.94 James And I guess with Waymo, what's also interesting is you know exactly what car you're getting every single time because it's the exact same vehicle. So not that that matters to me, but it's of interest. 03:09.81 Frank That's funny. Yeah. 03:13.08 James And they keep them pretty clean. There's that. um Yeah, the pickup and drop-off are weird because... it's got to find a place to pick you up in a very congested city. So like Waymo ah will try to get over and it and it gives you an area where it's trying to pick you up, but sometimes it picks you up on the wrong side of the street. 03:31.19 James Sometimes it picks you up like before turning, because it's like, I found a spot, come to me, you know, type of thing. 03:34.53 Frank Okay. 03:35.93 James um And you can kind of dictate where you want it to go. So if you know the area, you can kind of say, okay, it's going to be better over there. But again, sometimes it's like, I just dropped someone off, get on in James, and I'll have like the jam or whatever that kind of spins around. 03:49.52 James And that's the same with the drop off where like, okay. And it's like, we're getting ready to drop you off. We're going to find a spot, but you're not allowed to get out yet. Don't, don't try to get out because we're not letting you out. 03:55.50 Frank Okay. Okay. 03:58.30 James And, uh, and it tries to find a spot and sometimes it'll be in the wrong lane because it couldn't get over. 03:57.72 Frank so 04:03.20 James So it like stops. And it's like, I'm get over. I'm definitely gonna get over. And it just waits. It waits for the vehicles to let it get over. And San Francisco drivers seem to be like, all right, Waymo, whatever, like, fine, go, go. 04:13.81 Frank Yeah. 04:15.19 James You know, and it's like, because it's like someone was honking at, it's like, who are you honking at? Nobody's in there. 04:18.81 Frank Yeah. 04:20.04 James You know what I mean? 04:20.64 Frank the robot doesn't care 04:21.36 James So that's really, it's like, it doesn't, it does it has no feelings. It does not care. So it was, it was a really interesting experience, but overall pleasant, I would say. And ever, it, it, 04:32.55 James yeah Everything oddly worked as expected. It did things that as a if I put on my computer mind, made sense, where it's like, oh, I'm going to try to get over because this, but then I could see into the future. I'm like, oh, there's a bunch of like construction happening. 04:47.29 James I wouldn't have gotten over yet. So it wass like gets over and then gets back over, right? 04:48.31 Frank Yeah. Right. 04:51.54 James The the lidar is crazy to watch because it can get the detail on the map of like little dogs and of little things. 04:50.89 Frank Yeah. 04:57.78 James So and it can the lidar goes really far, like almost a whole block. It's like wild and through and through um houses. So it's really a crazy experience to watch the lidar work. 05:09.22 James But yeah, it was making moves that made sense, especially as a computer. As a human, I wouldn't make all of those moves. Many of them I would, but it never got itself in trouble. 05:15.49 Frank Sure. 05:19.17 James And if it did, um like there was one place where there was like a lot of things happening on all four corners, like construction and other stuff. So it's like, Processing process and it would just wait and it's like, it's going to be like really safe. 05:30.68 Frank Yeah. 05:33.81 James Right. So, uh, and then it was fine. So I took, I took like 10 Waymo's I think, and, and it was, it was pleasant. 05:36.30 Frank Okay. 05:40.11 James So plus one to Waymo, good technology. 05:42.48 Frank Wow. 05:43.33 James James approved. 05:45.01 Frank That's exciting. Thank you for the report. I'm a little bit jealous. I've always wanted to ride in these cars, and I still haven't. So I have to get my butt over to the city and try that puppy out. 05:54.75 James Yeah. 05:54.18 Frank um No tipping, huh? That's interesting. 05:58.10 James Yeah, no tipping. 05:57.92 Frank Okay. 05:59.51 James Nothing. No one did Oh, I was worried that the first time i was like, oh, I'm going to give this good this ah robot a five star. 05:59.80 Frank That is... 06:05.66 James It opened it up. 06:05.23 Frank Yeah. 06:06.15 James It's like, thanks for riding. Have a good day. Bye. it just got You know, gone. all right, cool. 06:08.36 Frank Yeah. 06:09.44 James So, yeah, that was nice. 06:09.70 Frank Yeah. I'm sure though, that all those little heuristics of predicting into the future a little bit more that, and you know, it's so much low hanging fruit for them to work on for the next 10, 20 years. So I'm not even at all concerned about those. All I care about right now is safety and, 06:23.88 Frank not driving all the other human drivers completely insane and sounds like you only drove them a little bit insane so that's that's pretty great i want to take mine out to the beach i wanted to go on some of the windy upy downy roads and see how it does on those i don't care about the highways highways are easy 06:39.33 James Yeah, no. is Yeah, that that's was very, very interesting. and So it was good. And that was there for GitHub Universe. I was there as my first GitHub Universe ever. 06:45.98 Frank okay 06:48.95 James so 06:48.62 Frank Cool. So i remember the old GitHub conferences. I've never been to a GitHub universe either. So you're doing all these first time things and making me jealous here. But I remember GitHub used to have a presence at all the conferences. 07:02.58 Frank I'm not going to conferences anymore. So i don't even get to see them there. James, i have to admit, i did try to read the ah synopsis of the GitHub universe. And every time i read the word agent, I decided to take a drink. 07:16.40 James Bye. 07:16.24 Frank And I made it through one paragraph. And i have no idea what actually happened. So I look forward to your report. And i'm I'm just keeping it true this time. Every time you say agent, I'm taking a shot of scotch. 07:29.31 Frank That's terrible. 07:30.07 James Perfect. Oh, that's you you know that's quite a lot of alcohol, maybe a sip, maybe a little sip-a-roni. 07:35.38 Frank A sip. Okay. 07:37.35 James um Okay, so ah i know i you know GitHub Universe is a fascinating one because it's like a developer conference about GitHub, but is it also about other stuff that's not GitHub related, right? 07:37.17 Frank Well, yeah. 07:48.06 James like Who's it for? Is it for someone that uses GitHub? is is someone that uses Copilot? Is it someone that is building extensions for Copilot or for for GitHub? Is it open source creators? Is it businesses, you know, who is it for? Like if you go to build or you go to ignite or you go to Google IO, it's cause you're like this developer, like you're not necessarily, you could be building software kind of forget hub, like, you know, the, the ecosystem extensions and maybe integrations, like, is that for you or is it for me or is it for everybody? 08:17.34 James And it was a blend of everybody. it was the most, 08:18.33 Frank Wow. 08:19.98 James I said it was a most diverse conference because it wasn't like just like the diversity of people from all over the place, but also like the attendees. Like there was startup founders. There's people that I met that worked at Arm and Motorola. And then there were like all of the like kind of competitors in a way like Google was there and like Juni and like all these like integrations, like the integrations into GitHub, right? because it's like an open platform. 08:42.48 James And the attendees were super broad. and and And I had a bunch of awesome like Xamarin developers is that were like, oh, man, like I saw you, James, like at a conference 12 years ago. like It's so cool to run into you again. 08:53.63 James And they're like, oh, I'm working at like the state government. 08:53.46 Frank Fantastic. 08:55.51 James You know what I mean? They're like oh. And then there was someone I sat down at lunch, and she's like, oh, I just like started this AI startup three months ago, and I'm hiring people. You know what I mean? it was just like... you know, very fascinating, like a blend of individuals that were there. 09:10.05 James And yeah, I think for me, when I think of GitHub universe, it's sort of like, hopefully like, you know, GitHub is more than just GitHub.com, but it's, it's actions, it's the planner, it's GitHub copilots, integrations, the IDEs now, it's agents doing stuff in the cloud and your IDE, all these things, right? 09:24.16 Frank thank uh yeah 09:28.08 James ah So there's all these things happening and it's now broader than ever. So it's kind of a little bit of that, to be honest with you, if you actually go through the change log, you'll kind of see that there's like kind of updates for everything. 09:35.24 Frank yeah 09:39.99 James There's updates to like integrations into VS code. There's integrations in this whole thing that we'll talk about with the coding agent. ah that's out there. um There's a whole brand new dashboard that's available, brand new things for code reviews that are happening, like integrations with code QL and like linters. 10:00.77 James There's new planning modes. There's um new updates for the MCP server, integrations into new um IDEs, new updates to like ah org-wide code quality visibility, which is kind of fascinating. 10:14.52 James There's a metrics dashboard. 10:14.16 Frank We got to talk about that one. 10:16.62 James There's all sorts of stuff, right? So there's a little bit of everything. Now I was in the the VS Code vibe coding booth. So that was like me and Katie like ran that, which is super fun. Um, but Pierce was in the keynote. 10:29.03 James So I think the vibe overall in Fort Mason, which like these older, like, you know, like in Marina, like the bigger warehouse ask buildings, like on the water. 10:39.58 James is a fascinating setup, but it's very vibrant. like The vibe overall of GitHub Universe is very bright, very GitHub-y, very you know exciting. like it It was a fun developer conference, two days really quick. i mean It was like boom, in and out. right Now, i didn't get to go to any sessions or anything, but I did watch the keynote, which was like where the majority of things worse So like my TLDR, of like GitHub universe is like, I definitely would recommend this conference. I think it's a fun conference, but I'm not like going there if I'm a.net developer looking for like.net things, right? Or if I'm a JavaScript developer looking for JavaScript things, it's like very like GitHub-y. 11:16.40 Frank Yeah. Is it talking about the future or is it also like, I don't know, maybe I'm the greatest PR reviewer ever. I'm just all about reviewing other people's code. 11:26.89 Frank Would I have a place in this conference or is it just more about like future announcements for the GitHub? 11:32.84 James No, I think it's both for sure. It's it's very community based, I would say. like There's a lot of community areas and like expert areas. And then like I think also because there's an entire like floor, these are long, big buildings. 11:46.51 James of like all the sponsors and all like the integrations, like you definitely have like plenty of people to talk to. And I think sessions to go to for it, I bet you'd be able to fill in enough basically for it. And there was like hacker spaces. 11:58.57 James um I got this. Get up co-pilot Lego set, which is really cool that I need to do, but they were also like 3d printing stuff. 12:02.63 Frank Okay, come on. 12:05.87 James There were these badges that are hackable badges that you can get. You've seen them on Twitter. I'm sure. 12:11.11 Frank Yeah, that's cool. 12:13.19 James They're there. 12:12.99 Frank I have to admit, and want my Raspberry Pi GitHub badge. 12:13.88 James there 12:16.08 Frank Maybe I'll steal yours. 12:17.36 James They're pretty cool. 12:17.17 Frank Okay. 12:18.68 James Wi-Fi. ah You'd probably do more of it with it than I would, but um there's a little Tamagotchi Mona in here and a bunch of games and you can hack it and put your own stuff on here. So. yeah I think like in that aspect, I'm like, well, I've never seen some of this stuff like at a conference. 12:31.97 James I'm like, that's really cool. like it's It's a fun developer conference where, and this is what I won. 12:32.99 Frank Yeah. 12:36.68 James It's my last conference of the year. um and I'm like, it's okay. I was like, yeah, like you know we're going to do the thing that we did to build, but I don't got any sessions. like Let's just chill, have fun. like This is what we're here for. i'm like Let's take it in because I'm interested in what we can improve upon next year. 12:51.10 James But ah having never gone to a GitHub universe, I'm like, I don't know what the vibe is, right? Like, I don't know the flow. 12:54.73 Frank yeah 12:56.68 James And it the the the the the the vibe was pretty, pretty fun. So I definitely recommend it to people. And there was ah several thousand people. so it's like pretty big. It's a lot bigger than I thought it was going to be. 13:03.38 Frank Oh, wow. Yeah. yeah 13:05.05 James Yeah. Yeah. 13:05.96 Frank Interesting. I know you always have a funny perspective on these things because you're kind of half working, half James. 13:11.65 James yeah 13:11.00 Frank Half work James, half not life James. um But I am curious, like, um what were you doing mostly at the time? I know you you like um were you just hanging out in the hall chit-chatting with people or were you chit-chatting with higher ups, making the big business deals, doing your integrations? 13:28.78 Frank Or were you just kind of slumming it with the devs? How did you spend your time? Yeah. 13:34.71 James little bit of everything like Katie and I were in the vibe code booth. So we were vibing ah with folks that were coming on. 13:40.12 Frank Okay. 13:41.78 James So like each day i had like maybe two hours. Like so on Monday, we sort of set up, made sure everything was working, did tech checks. And then we got there on Tuesday and I think I vibe coded for like two and a half hours. And then the same on Thursday, it was like two and a half hours or so. 13:57.71 James And then Katie did some other other hosts like Harold and people from Figma came on. So there was like one host and one five coders. so I did a little bit of both. And then between that, like most of the VS code, like a lot of the VS code team was there. And obviously I know a bunch of people from and some some VS team members were there and some Azure team members were there. 14:14.85 James was mostly hanging out a lot with Dan who works on like spec kit and works on like the MCP stuff hanging out with some people from GitHub that I knew. then just like mix, you know, mixing and mingling and talking to people. 14:25.84 James Yeah, there were some higher up execs that I got to say hi to that like you're my management chain and outside my management chain. Like I didn't get to see. I saw Satya um doing an interview like on stage, but I didn't like hang with Satya. 14:37.30 Frank how funny yeah 14:38.73 James Right. I wasn't like, how are Satya? um But it seemed like he was walking around. 14:41.20 Frank didn't get burritos together 14:43.65 James Yeah, but it was interesting. I went to the Syntax podcast meetup um because I'd met Scott Talinsky not too long ago, and I struck up a few conversations with him. My buddy Luke was there that I went to college with. 14:54.78 James You remember Luke? He was at my wedding with Diana and the kids, and um we hung out a bunch, so it was really good to catch up with him. 14:55.39 Frank Oh. 15:03.86 James He's working on a startup called Volt. They're like a new NPM package manager thingy. It's not my world, but it seems cool. and Yeah, i get to i got to meet some people from like Netflix and from Blue Sky. 15:17.12 James So it was kind of like a blend of everyone where because I knew a few people and they knew people, you're kind of like just, it kind of reminded me of, you remember the.NET Fringe conference in Portland? 15:22.62 Frank oh 15:27.08 Frank Yeah, yeah, those were fun. 15:28.68 James That's what it kind of, ah a much bigger vibe of that, right? 15:28.62 Frank Yeah. 15:31.67 James You know, where people are just hanging and chilling and just kind of like, yeah, let's kind of hang and and talk and have fun. 15:31.33 Frank Yeah. 15:37.55 James So that's how I was. i would love to have gone to some sessions. and mix and mingle around a little bit, like go to stuff. and i'm like, I'll watch them online later, right? I'm not here for that. 15:44.15 Frank yeah 15:44.95 James I'm here to like talk to people. 15:46.02 Frank Two days is fast. 15:46.76 James So yeah. 15:47.29 Frank It is kind of fun that it's not a specific technology focus because I do tend to go to like.NET conferences. And so it's all.NET. So it's kind of fun that like it's tooling. So everyone who does any kind of development is going to be there. 15:57.62 James Yeah. 15:59.50 Frank So that's kind of fun. 16:01.79 James Yep. 16:01.71 Frank So how has this tooling improved? Are there any announcements i in paragraphs number two or three that I just didn't make it to? um Or did I get everything in paragraph one when I passed out drunk? 16:15.06 James Well, let's talk about the the developer tools that we use every day on our computers, such as VS Code. Okay. 16:21.34 Frank Yeah, I do use that. 16:23.12 James ah 16:23.32 Frank I yell at it sometimes, but I use it mostly. 16:24.11 James Yep. 16:26.81 James Or Xcode, or maybe use IntelliJ, or use these other IDs where GitHub Copilot may be, right? Okay. So a few things in VS Code that is um coming up, um specifically around Copilot stuff. Obviously, we're at a GitHub event, so we're talking about GitHub-y things, including Copilot. 16:43.59 James So the very first thing is that ah inside of VS Code, you now have a new plan mode that's available. So plan agent, if you will. 16:54.67 James So now these modes, we used to call them modes. Okay. And now they're just been rebranded to agent. So like, you remember I have asked edit an agent. Now each of those are agents and those agents can do stuff. 17:03.39 Frank Mm-hmm. 17:07.36 James So it's kind of a rebranding because I don't think that like the, the agent mode made a lot of sense to people, but like these are agents that do specific tasks, like resonate with people a little bit more. 17:20.30 James So like, Playwright, for example, came out with um and a few different agents to help generate Playwright tests, like write, you know, or do Playwright planning, generate tests agent, and then like a healing agent. 17:37.88 James So you could say, hey, I wrote some code, run the healing agent, and it has this large amount of instructions, like a very defined system prompt, basically. It knows it's an expert in that thing. 17:47.89 Frank hmm 17:50.20 James And this was very similar to what chat modes were when we were talking about beast mode, for example, often. But these are now like agents that are meant to do specific things. So, for example, you might have like a CSS agent or i might have a TDD agent or a WinForms agent, which is what I'm experimenting with with right now, or a Maui agent. 18:04.36 Frank three 18:06.21 James Right. And these are things that are like really defined at specific tasks. Right. So you can imagine like. um um ah these these specific agents doing stuff. So now there's a planning agent and the planning agent knows how to plan stuff. 18:21.37 James So it knows how to very meticulously create step-by-step implementation instructions. 18:21.50 Frank OK. 18:28.21 James And there's even a new thing in VS Code called sub. Um, sub agent. So what it will do is it will go off and basically do things in parallel and in their own mini context window. 18:32.39 Frank okay 18:39.47 James So for example, if it needs to go grab a bunch of context from a bunch of files, you can do all that in parallel instead of like read a file, read a file, read a file, bring it back. 18:44.86 Frank nice 18:46.99 James Um, and then, so it can analyze your code base, generates your plans. 18:46.32 Frank yeah 18:51.08 James It asks you open-ended questions. um It validates requirements with you. And then it puts a plan together that you can execute immediately or that you can um just um create a prompt, basically, and check it into source code that you could then execute later on. 19:07.95 James could be then you know a spec that you basically have inside of your code base if you want. 19:11.85 Frank Yeah. 19:13.83 James um And you could do it later. Or you could delegate it to the cloud or something like that, or the CLI. You can delegate things. So that's the plan mode stuff that's in there. 19:22.10 Frank I gotta tell you, when when you said WinForms agent, my ears just picked up. You you say WinForms, and I am immediately interested. I mean, that's I got my start programming basically doing VB and then WinForms. So I love me my WinForms. 19:36.68 Frank And you mentioned this before the podcast. You're talking about the WinForms agent. I'm like, i need this. i yeah I do 10 days of WinForms programming per year, but I need this WinForms agent. And I'm like, James, what is an agent? Because you're like, 19:49.40 Frank Well, that word means different things depending on what month we're talking about. 19:53.79 James yeah 19:53.35 Frank So now it seems like agent is very large system prompts, whereas prompts used to be, system prompts used to be these small things. Now people are writing very, very long text files, markdown files, ah basically specializing um the the AI to do certain tasks and things. 20:12.06 Frank So I've actually been reading through the WinForms agent. I'm not sure if that's the right word, but everything's an agent, so let's just call it an agent. 20:19.17 James an agent 20:18.83 Frank And it's fun. it's you know it's It's giving it boundaries mostly, like here I want you to do some C-sharp code cleanup whenever you're editing files of the certain type, specifically designer files, because it turns out you have to be very careful with what syntax you use in designer files. 20:31.22 James and Yeah. 20:35.38 Frank So it's it's putting a guardrails around the AI saying, you know, use a limited syntax when you're editing these kinds of files. But when you're in a normal C Sharp file, you know, use C Sharp 14, you know, throw away all that C Sharp 10 code. That stuff is trash, you know, upgrade this, upgrade that. 20:51.53 Frank And it's fun. um I feel like ah Every little while we're talking about new ways to do system prompts in these things. um When we're talking about like ah spec kit, those are basically a whole bunch of system prompts to be feeding it and tests to go out and do. But I think we are starting to find that happy ground. um I agree that ask mode and those kind of actual modes are a little weird because... 21:17.43 Frank you say it has like a planning feature now. Well, I've been, i think we've all been using GPT-5 and you can't ask it to like make something uppercase without it coming up with a 10-step plan it's going to execute. 21:28.54 Frank And then it has to work through its 10-step plan to just uppercase some text. 21:30.07 James town 21:32.90 Frank And so there are built-in plans, but it's nice to see people are trying to refine that too. Like, don't just plan everything. 21:39.45 James Yeah. you can 21:40.71 Frank Yeah. 21:41.93 James Yeah, you can think um the interesting about each of these agents is that they can also have specific tools that are available to them that are like in VS code. 21:46.84 Frank Yeah. 21:48.79 James So like the plan agent, you know, can't write any code, right? It can only consume and plan together and it can fetch files from the Internet. So you could research things that are out there. 21:59.70 James I was working on my badge website for like read me badges, like the little shield things. 22:03.70 Frank yeah 22:04.75 James And I was like, Oh, like i need you to go. I want to implement this, you know, basically get up stars and the, these other things like go figure out like what makes sense in a code first read me. And it went out and like read some, some repos that I gave it. It read like the shields IO documentation, it looked at the GitHub and it pulled it all back and put a plan together and asked me questions. 22:24.11 James That was really nice. 22:23.50 Frank Mm-hmm. 22:25.32 James And cause it has access to those specific tools. And then the cool part, like you're saying is these agents can move around with you. So in the different editors or on github.com. So if I go to github.com. 22:36.74 James And I assign an issue to co-pilot or I start a new task. So like on github.com, you can just go github.com slash co-pilot or to your repo. And you just say, you know, open agents panel. 22:48.14 James And you just describe the coding task you want to work on. give it a branch if you want it to work off a specific branch and then a custom agent. So I can then pick whatever agent is there. So for example, that's nice if you're like, oh, I want to right now run a new task to you know plan out some playwright things for end-to-end testing or like do some WinUI web work or UI work. 22:56.03 Frank Yeah. Mm-hmm. 23:09.80 James then I give it that specific agent. Also, it'll just use the generic system prompts, right? you' This generic general agent that does stuff, right? um Which is good. So I'm really kind of like this because you could imagine, oh, um I know I want to like work really close on like just the unit testing. 23:24.40 James So these agents kind of like very specific things for it. And what I think at the keynote and what they talked about was that these different companies and like they have this idea of like agent HQ that GitHub is developers and agents working together. 23:36.96 James is that companies will have agents that you can just add. So you can think of it as like a repo. There's awesome GitHub, which has a bunch of agent files in there, but you can imagine, let me just go browse a marketplace of agents that makes sense for my application. 23:43.74 Frank Hmm. 23:51.24 James Cause you can almost imagine like if you're creating a react application, you might not want to have a react agent or like have multiple agents working together on it that get handed off. So like the cool part about plan mode with the VS code is that there's a plan agent the plan mode agent, I'm going to call it modes and agents, but the same, the the the plan agent. 24:09.89 James um At the end and of the, it creates a plan and then it has little buttons that says, what do you want to do next? And it says, do you want to start the implementation or do you want to write a file? And then it'll automatically switch to the normal agent mode um inside of there. And so it automatically switches and it starts to do stuff. It kind of will put prompts in there, which is cool automatically, which is really cool. So you could imagine, 24:32.84 James You might have an agent that is going to plan, you know, I'm going plan unit tests and you have another one that's like, okay, then to hand this off to the unit test agent and then, okay, now hand this off to the API agent that does a bunch of stuff. So you're kind of orchestrating these things together. 24:48.07 James So that's really, really neat. I think in general to kind of being able to have these agents that are moving around on the different, um, ones out there. So yeah, you said like there's a bunch of prebuilt ones. 24:58.93 James So there's one from LaunchDarkly, from OctopusDeploy, from JFrog, from Amplitude, from PagerDuty, um from Dynatrace, from Databricks, and a bunch of other ones. So yeah, you can just go create your own agents today. 25:09.67 Frank And I want to repeat something. i want to emphasize something you said because um I didn't know about this. But github.com slash github slash awesome hyphen copilot is a bunch of examples of all this stuff. 25:24.42 Frank So examples of prompts, which are kind of the we've we've talked about those 30 years ago. It feels like a decade feels like forever ago. And this is one way to customize it. 25:36.06 Frank instructions, which we've also talked about, another way to in your repo to give specific instructions to the ai ah Now there's a new folder called agents, which is this new stuff you're talking about, but there's also the one that mentioning before, the chat modes. 25:51.06 Frank And I think it's really fantastic to have this awesome hyphen co-pilot repository because it's a million examples of different ways to customize these puppies. 26:03.10 Frank I have to admit, I think when we were talking about the instructions, I was admitting that I still don't use instructions nearly enough. I don't use any of this stuff nearly enough. I don't use any of these customization steps nearly enough. 26:12.16 James Yeah. 26:14.33 Frank um So I think you may not want to use a specific one from Awesome Copilot, but I think you should definitely go there and read through them to see... to jog the brain cells and see oh gosh and it never even occurred to me that I could customize it for generating MCP servers and low-level C code running on ARM or something silly like that. 26:37.67 Frank um This is a really cool ah repo which I know wasn't announced or anything i'm it's probably very old itself but I didn't know about it so I think someone else out there might enjoy also. 26:48.68 James Yeah. And I think the idea of all these examples being there and i got, you know, some of the awesome co-pilot came out of love talk from myself and other teams and things like that is yeah. Just like, you know, we need this amazing repo of, of samples or things that people can just pick. And I put some of mine up there too. So it's like, here's the different modes and here's the different instructions that I have that people can like, yeah, pull down basically. 27:14.98 James So yeah, I really, really like it and there's a bunch of collections, a bunch of things that you can just go grab and and then you can easily one click install basically. So I like the idea of it and I'm pretty excited to see like how this continues to evolve over time in general um inside of it. 27:31.08 James So I think that'll be really, really neat. And that's the thing that I've been kind of most excited about because there's also this, you know, parallel work stream of, 27:42.87 James writing code locally in your code editor, and then writing and doing things in the CLI, and then also doing things in the cloud. So kind of like there's different ways to use these agents, lots of agents, agents be everywhere. 27:51.17 Frank Right. 27:57.51 James But there hasn't been anything really unified about it, to be honest with you. 27:56.90 Frank Drink. 28:03.07 James So one of the other exciting features of VS Code, but also that came to github.com slash copilot, is this agents sessions view, and it's a new pain. 28:18.48 James So you know how you have the get pain, you have like the extensions pain, you have your code pain. Now there's an agent sessions pain. And inside that it will show you all of your local chat agents. 28:24.63 Frank Okay. 28:28.83 James So everything that you're doing on the chat, you can see all your history, you can rename things. You can start in new chats. You can do a whole bunch of things like wherever you want. There is now also The GitHub co-pilot cloud agent used to be the coding agent. 28:43.20 James Now it's the cloud agent, which makes way more sense. 28:44.36 Frank Okay. 28:45.48 James It's happening in the cloud. and That's anytime you delegate anything on GitHub.com, it's a cloud agent. 28:49.17 Frank Okay. 28:50.06 James Hello. Thank you, marketing. Crack marketing team over did that. It makes so much more sense. 28:54.15 Frank This is like assigning GitHub to a bug or something like that, right? 28:54.96 James um 28:57.88 James Exactly. 28:57.57 Frank This this would be that? 28:58.57 James Yep. 28:58.61 Frank Yeah. Okay. 28:59.96 James That would be exactly that. Or just saying like, I need you to go make an orange theme in my app, go off and do it in some other thread, right? 29:05.35 Frank Mm-hmm. 29:07.02 James So you can create an issue or not. 29:07.12 Frank Yeah. 29:08.18 James So that's exactly what it is. Go fix this bug, create the PR, go. It works in a PR and goes. Now with that view inside of ES code, you can actually watch the session happening and you can chat with co-pilot in real time. 29:22.51 Frank Mm-hmm. 29:24.24 James So if you see it and you're monitoring and you're like, Oh, it's making it a different color orange than I thought you could put it back on track, but also. 29:24.55 Frank Creepy. 29:31.30 James Now on github.com, you can do kind of the same exact thing. You can actually watch the agent session. You can chat with It's the same experience, right? It's beautiful. Nice. 29:39.14 Frank OK. 29:41.02 James So that's really cool in general of like actually watching it off. 29:43.70 Frank Sorry. Sorry, I'm going to use you as a documentation because I'm too lazy to go read the documentation. 29:48.15 James Okay. 29:49.95 Frank um I know github.com slash copilot is a thing. ah Whenever I'm bored, I just chat with it because that's what I do. 29:54.42 James Yep. 29:57.53 James Yes. 29:56.93 Frank um But you can actually assign it real work in that UI also, or you recommend... um but What is your preferred way to assign work to a co-pilot on the cloud? 30:06.49 James Huh? 30:08.28 Frank Let's say i don't even want I don't even have VS Code installed on my machine. you know i'm I'm on my phone. 30:12.66 James Oh yeah. 30:14.07 Frank I'm about to get on an airplane. need it to do my job for me. 30:16.62 James Yep. 30:17.12 Frank how do How do I? 30:18.24 James Yes. 30:17.96 Frank What's them what's your preferred way? 30:20.38 James That's a great question because everything I just told you, you can also do directly from the mobile phone, which is funnily enough, what I did on the way back home from GitHub Copilot, from GitHub universe, as I chatted, i like fired up a bunch of like cloud tasks basically. 30:24.00 Frank Good. 30:33.21 James And was like coding from the cloud for clothing, clothing from 3000 or 30,000 feet. 30:34.63 Frank and 30:36.74 James Right. Um, and I was just watching it do the thing. 30:37.02 Frank yeah 30:39.78 James So what I like to do is when you go to get up.com slash copilot, if you expand the left-hand side, you're going to see chat, which is just a chat. Then you're going see agents. That's the one that you want to go to. 30:51.99 James Loops and spaces, i don't quite understand just yet. I kind of now understand spaces. 30:55.37 Frank and I'm glad there's something you don't understand. That's nice to hear. Thanks. 30:59.11 James loops Loops, I really don't want to understand, but April explained to me spaces, which is imagine you're at a company where you have, or even you, where you have um multiple you have multiple repos right You have a backend repo and a frontend repo, and then you have this other third-party library you're using inside. 31:20.15 James And actually, you need to have a common space. So like GitHub Copilot has the context of like all three things. You can kind of bridge it together, if that makes sense. 31:30.76 Frank Oh. 31:31.54 James It's kind of like... making co-pilot aware of the project scope that could span multiple repos, or you could upload files to it. For example, like maybe don't want spec docs. 31:43.01 James You could say, here's, here's i circuit, but actually I circuit has eight repos associated with it. You could put it in a space and then work off a space. 31:47.88 Frank Mm-hmm. 31:51.20 James So agents is where you want to go. Now, Frank, that's not where I go. That's where I go to monitor the agents, what they're doing. 31:56.46 Frank OK. 31:57.39 James But actually i just go to the repo. So go to your, go to your repo. 31:59.56 Frank Yeah. My favorite repo. 32:02.52 James And even in the mobile app, I go to the repo that's there. And when I go to, let's say feedback flow, right on the very top, there is a chat with copilot and then there's an open agents panel. 32:15.46 James So just open the agents panel at the very top, like next to the search. 32:17.79 Frank There is an open agents panel. It's so funny how your eyes, I've just learned to not look up there. um there's there's a whole There's a whole cloud to click on. 32:23.67 James Yep. That's where need to go. The whole clued it wants your input and you can select the branch and you can select the custom agent, which is that little co-pilot, uh, button, which is kind of weird, but the little froggy guy. 32:26.32 Frank i've I've clicked on it and it it wants my input. It always wants my input, James. 32:36.57 Frank The frog. The frog icon. Got it. 32:40.36 James Yep. So you can do that. And then additionally, if you go to the pull request tab, there's also a new agent task next to the new pull request. 32:41.65 Frank Okay. Okay. 32:48.92 James And if you go to the issues, you can open an issue. and then to assign it immediately. So that one's not as obvious, but basically that's how you you do it. 32:54.32 Frank Yeah. 32:58.46 James um but that little It's a little cloud, looks like a CLI in the cloud. 32:58.99 Frank Okay. 33:02.64 James That's what it looks like. And there's also one, by the way, next to the code button, see how there's like go to file plus a file. 33:03.26 Frank Looks like 33:09.05 James there's a little They they've basically inserted that little cloud icon everywhere. 33:10.07 Frank a... Ooh. 33:13.09 James So you you could attempt to click on it from everywhere. So that's really there, right? So, okay. So inside of VS Code, yeah, go ahead. 33:19.60 Frank Yeah, so I just want to say, yeah, I like the little cloud icon. When you click on the little copilot slash frog guy, um it says you have no custom agents right now. So that's cool. So what I should do is go to awesome copilot, steal a couple agents, throw them into my repository, and then I'll have, yeah, I'll have some little frog slash copilot guys to help me out. 33:42.58 James Yeah. I also, it'll just use the normal general agent, which is what I've been using forever. you don't have to have an agent uses it has agent. 33:46.74 Frank Yeah, cool. 33:49.27 James It should, it should actually just have like copilot, which would be like normal agent all the way down. 33:51.19 Frank James, it's it's agents all the way down. I just need to know where to insert my agents so I can have more agents on my agents. 33:56.10 James Yes. Now. The last thing, so the agent sessions panel inside of VS code shows you all your local ones, shows you all your cloud tasks and agents up there. It will also show you your GitHub copilot CLI. 34:10.13 James So it'll show you all of your CLI history there. 34:10.80 Frank Mm. 34:13.03 James Now here's what really is cool. Cause I'm not a CLI guy. Some people are, but you can actually from VS code open the copilot CLI in two ways. 34:23.80 James One, You can click new and it will actually give you a GUI for the CLI and like parse the CLI. 34:28.98 Frank What? 34:30.19 James You can tap with it. 34:29.73 Frank you're breaking You're breaking what words mean. 34:32.14 James it's It's amazing. But you can also you can also just say open the terminal here and it'll do a full full view terminal, full interaction, everything that you can tap with it that's there. 34:43.66 James So that's really cool. So you can see everything. Now, here's what's mind boggling. The last one. 34:47.09 Frank That's all mind-boggling, James, but okay. 34:49.33 James What if it wasn't only Copilot? inside of this agent sessions? What if maybe OpenAI Codex, maybe Claude Code, right? 34:56.25 Frank What else could it be? 35:00.46 Frank Oh. Oh. 35:03.76 James Now, with this release, the Visual Studio Code team has made an API so different agents like Claude, like Codex, 35:16.02 James can integrate. So now if you install the codex, this one works right out of the box today with codex, other ones coming soon, but with open AI codex, if you prefer that extension, that experience, you can now install and it will show up. 35:31.23 James All of your codex chats will show up right there, side by side, everything else that you're doing. 35:33.86 Frank Nice. 35:36.35 James Now on top of that though, this is mind boggling. You can now, from VS Code, sign in to the OpenAI Codex extension, not created by Microsoft, created by OpenAI, and you can now sign in with your GitHub Copilot subscription and get billed through your GitHub Copilot subscription. 35:53.45 Frank Oh, God. 35:56.88 James So you don't even need an OpenAI account to use the OpenAI Codex extension to if you like that look and feel compared to the built-in Copilot one. 36:01.25 Frank Aha. 36:06.11 Frank So this is all the business talk happening at GitHub Universe with integrations. This is why Google's showing up with their Gemini, because they need to get their Gemini hooked into all of this stuff. 36:12.72 James Yes. 36:17.99 Frank Yeah. 36:19.14 James That's correct. 36:19.14 Frank Yeah. Okay. It wasn't good enough. People couldn't just fork VS Code. Now they actually want to integrate with VS Code. Jeez, what a world we live in. 36:27.58 James Better together, baby. 36:26.94 Frank So... 36:29.41 James Just saying. 36:29.53 Frank No, that's cool. That's cool. um Because honestly, um we say co-pilot all the time. We say OpenAI all the time. We say VS Code all the time. And it's really hard for my brain not to just merge them all together into one thing. 36:41.94 Frank It's honestly a little hard for me to remember that they actually are separate entities and that there's other players out there that want involved in this. 36:42.78 James Yeah. 36:49.55 Frank So but good job. 36:50.71 James Yeah, and it's it's cool. It's super cool now. So like even it's even extended so much that as these agents from different companies plug in you can actually in the main co-pilot chat that you might have open, you're like, I'm working on something. 37:05.90 James You can say like send send a thing, like you can send a message to go work on a thing or you can say delegate. 37:08.38 Frank Yeah. 37:11.32 James And as of a week ago, when you delegated a task, it would only have the option of going to the GitHub co-pilot cloud agent. But now it will ask you, do you want to go to the CLI and run this in the background? 37:24.18 James Do you want to use OpenAI Codex? 37:24.32 Frank Yeah. 37:25.98 James Do you want to use the cloud agent? Where do you want to go where do you want to delegate this to from VS Code? So you can imagine that world opens up down the road based on how you want to work, right? 37:32.92 Frank Yeah. 37:36.42 James So different CLIs, different integrations. 37:38.88 Frank So can I create custom agents that the cloud agents can use utilizing third-party agents? can i Can I get three levels of agents happening here? 37:50.53 Frank Or do the third party like Cloud and Gemini, do they not use my custom agents? And just to be clear, are any of these execs aware there are more words in the English language than agents? 38:04.16 James I think only agent is the only thing we tried. 38:05.73 Frank ah 38:06.47 James We tried modes. We tried other things, agents. ah They're all agents all the way down. um That is a good question. 38:13.05 Frank ah so yeah the custom agents that we've been talking about like the markdown files um which i guess is a co-pilot feature i'm curious um if the other the yeah the like i said yeah the anthropics can they utilize them 38:25.50 James you know, I'm not sure. Now, what Kyle said in the beginning, because some of the stuff is like, it's the announcement and things are like rolling and happening, is that you have like Anthropic and OpenAI on stage and like talking about their integrations. 38:40.55 James And my assumption is that like, I think yes, but I can't guarantee no. Like he talked about on stage, Kyle did, who's the CEO of GitHub, said um like, hey, we're we have GitHub Copa, but wouldn't it be great if you could add in 38:44.66 Frank Mm-hmm. 38:54.63 James Claude and you could add in open AI and everything could just work together in the same views, the same panels. So when you go and you look at your agent sessions, you can spin it up and you can say, which which one do you want to use? 39:05.66 James Where do you want to go? X, Y, Z. I think that that is the where it's going, but now it's just probably like some business lawyer thing. 39:15.11 Frank Yeah. 39:17.74 James I don't know. 39:18.67 Frank Okay, so my my very last use of the word agent here, it's not true. 39:19.52 James Yeah. 39:22.84 Frank um When I go to GitHub Copilot and click agents there, I assume that's just the Copilot agent. That's not going to be anyone else's agent. Is that correct? 39:33.69 James I don't know. 39:34.19 Frank Yeah. 39:34.92 James i don't know. 39:34.86 Frank and Okay. 39:35.58 James i mean, it made it Kyle made it. 39:35.39 Frank The SCode is getting those features, but we'll see you about GitHub. Yeah. 39:39.67 James Yeah. Kyle made it sound like if I went over and I could be wrong and people can correct me, even though i work at this company, but is that when you go to agent sessions, he made it kind of seem like if I do new agent session, it would pop up and it'd be like, which one do you want to go to? 39:54.60 James Like, do you want to use claw? 39:54.76 Frank okay yeah 39:55.64 James Do you want to use whatever? it made it sound that way, but I can't be a hundred percent sure. 39:59.34 Frank at at least the ui i'm getting at the moment on november 1st here i am not getting an option for other models other than whatever copilot is 40:07.85 James Correct. Yes. Yeah. 40:11.44 Frank OK, very cool. 40:12.92 James to read the blog according to. 40:12.73 Frank So VS Code, ah also to summarize your CLI thing, you can use a GUI to run a CLI that can then present a GUI. So that's fantastic. I just love the inception here. 40:23.33 James Yeah. Okay. This is what it says over the coming months, coding agents from anthropic, open AI, Google cognition, XAI and more will become available directly within GitHub as part of your paid GitHub copilot subscription. 40:36.28 Frank OK, cool. and Okay. Yeah, i always forget about Grok. Okay, got it. 40:41.08 James That's a wild. So that's what he said. 40:42.88 Frank There's a lot of business deals happening here. 40:45.95 James That's what it says. Well, you know, what's very fascinating when I talk to a lot of businesses, a lot of businesses, really don't like paying eight different companies for AI tools, right? 40:56.53 Frank Yeah, no kidding. 40:58.40 James They would like to pay one thing and Copilot has a big advantage there. 40:58.61 Frank Yeah. 41:02.03 James And now this is kind of like really extending it, right? But then you pick the tools that you want, right? I think it's been pretty powerful when you think of GitHub, right? It's like, you know, you can use GitHub as like the repo, but you could also use any other planning tool. 41:14.59 James You could use other things like, you know, it's, you can choose any IDE, anything like that. It's not lockdown, right? 41:19.57 Frank Yeah. 41:21.09 James And think that's where they're kind of, going with it, which is kind of like bananas. Yeah. 41:24.71 Frank Taking a step back, though, like as an AI person, I cannot believe how quickly we commoditized these AIs. like whats What's it been? Three years of having these things around and already like we're more concerned. 41:38.16 James Dude. 41:38.27 Frank We've brought it up in abstraction level. 41:41.10 James Dude, nine months, nine months. 41:41.86 Frank Nine months. yeah i don't ah Time doesn't even exist anymore with these things. 41:44.35 James Not even. Mm-mm. 41:45.65 Frank And they've already been so commoditized that you just rattled off like at least three different models I've never even heard of. So great. 41:53.17 James Oh, totally. Yeah. So I think that's all really powerful. The other thing that's been happening is like code reviews got a huge overhaul and now uses like actions, like do code QL and to like a bunch of linters and a bunch of things as well inside of it, which is really cool. 42:03.63 Frank okay 42:07.27 Frank I know we're going late, but I just got to ask you, what what is the code QL thing? a Code quality. I think they keep saying like repo quality and all that stuff. And I was trying to read the docs and it wasn't making too much sense, but I am here. I am all about code quality, dude. My code is of the highest quality, and whatever the AIs say. I'm curious what the AIs are going to say. 42:26.01 Frank Can I just, what are we talking here? Can I just have like a robot go through my code and tell me how terrible I am at programming? Or is this a little bit more directed or is it very broad? 42:35.49 James Okay. 42:35.36 Frank Yeah. 42:36.93 James It's so code QL, it's an analysis engine from GitHub and it does security checks, identifies vulnerability in your code. It kind of treats code as data. 42:45.53 Frank Good luck. 42:47.07 James This is what Copilot is telling me. 42:47.55 Frank Little thing called the halting problem says that's impossible, but sure. 42:50.30 James Yeah. So basically, as one of the code reviews that maybe you would normally do is you would look at the code, and then ideally you would also look at any security vulnerabilities. 43:02.58 James So now through the assigning a PR to Copilot, it can then review the code directly for the the code quality that's that's coming up in that analysis. 43:12.11 Frank Is that just the changes, though, or is it looking at the whole repo? 43:13.95 James and 43:15.75 Frank It's a little unclear, the docs. 43:18.27 James I think that it is looking at the repo or sorry, at the, at the pull requests and the code changes. 43:26.84 Frank Yeah. 43:27.67 James Um, but you can set up code QL to do like at a repo level as well. So you can set it up on top of it. 43:33.52 Frank Yeah, it's not fun. 43:35.05 James Yeah. 43:35.30 Frank Because honestly, it was a little confusing to me that it's involved in PRs at all, because I think the worst PRs out there are when people start changing stuff unrelated to the PR. And that's what it it kind of reeked of that. 43:44.51 James Yeah. 43:45.21 Frank um I really wouldn't mind, though, um just a task running in the background being like, hey, dude, improve your code. This part stinks. Let's do better. 43:52.58 James Well, that's the thing that's very fascinating is like, i think I was looking at loop, like, like the loops inside of co-pilot. And like, i think maybe that will happen. It's like, I think that you can basically say, Hey, every night do this thing, almost like a cron job and like run these agents to do these things. 44:01.61 Frank Mm-hmm. 44:04.16 Frank right 44:07.13 James So it'd be cool to have like a code quality, you know, code quality agent that would just say, Oh, i'm going to go do this thing. Oh, okay. I want to open up PR, like open an issue, right. That you could review. And I think that's maybe what that does, but i'm not really a hundred percent sure. 44:19.65 James So too many new things. 44:20.86 Frank Yeah, yeah. yeah ah But we were just talking on the previous episode or the previous two of, yeah, we want more proactive. So maybe both of us will do our homework and find out what these loop things are. 44:32.31 James But the cool part is that like also when you assign things to the coding agent, like the cloud agent tasks or whatever, like it will automatically just do it as well as a final pass. 44:44.66 James Cause it's like, Hey, the AI generated a bunch of exactly. 44:45.05 Frank If you enable it. Yeah. 44:47.62 James It'll do it. It's going to do secret scanning. 44:48.73 Frank Yeah. 44:50.35 James and It'll do a bunch of things. So it'll just like check all the stuff vulnerabilities, give you a whole bunch of things automatically basically, which is really cool. 44:55.59 Frank Yeah. 44:58.19 Frank Cool. 44:58.94 James So yeah. 44:59.62 Frank Okay. i'm ah Yeah, I'm vaguely interested in that one. 45:00.74 James Boom. 45:02.13 Frank I was a little worried about PRs being like, all right, we we made everything uppercase and we completely rewrote your code base because we think you're a bad programmer. 45:11.39 James Yeah. No, I don't know I think it just does it on the thing basically. And that's it. Yeah. So no, I don't know. So there's a whole bunch of, you know, a whole bunch of stuff. Um, there's just some of the highlights in there. Like there's a new home dashboard. 45:24.93 James There's a new, like for businesses, like copilot, like dashboard, you can see all like the AI usage. The MCP registry is now like everywhere inside of like eclipse and jet brains. You can now delegate tasks to the copilot, uh, um, 45:37.90 James um Cloud agent, like you just like get the little button from IntelliJ IDE. e So like, you know, kind of it's nice to see kind of a lot of these features go downstream, like vs code gets it first and then like Visual Studio will get it and all the other ones will get it can kind of grab that as well, which is kind of cool. 45:53.42 James But then, yeah, a lot of the new stuff I'm really excited about is kind of that you know i think VS Code is fascinating is like it being the open source code editor and also like AI integrations being open source, like we've talked about before, is like, it's also like bring your own whatever you want, right? People are like, why do you, well, why is there codex? Why is there this cloud thing? It's like, well, because people like different things. 46:16.28 James And like one of the best things that VS Code can do is kind of be embrace it, right? 46:15.63 Frank Yeah, that's fine. Mm-hmm. 46:22.19 James Embrace everybody um that's out there and like make it so... People don't have to reinvent the wheel and it has like a unified infrastructure. Like the thing that upsets me the most sometimes like is that, you know, that little pane on the left hand side with like all the icons that open, like you have too many extensions, like too many things show up. 46:43.26 James Like I don't need a thousand things. 46:42.69 Frank Oh, yeah. 46:44.46 James Like give me like a unified dashboard. That's what i want 46:47.64 Frank And sorry, we won't turn this into a VS Code episode. But um after we were talking about like, I forgot like profiles or whatever, you can customize how VS Code looks. But I recommend everyone go through and delete as many things off of that left thing as you can. You'd be surprised how liberating it feels to finally we clean up the VS Code. 47:05.36 Frank VS Code used to be a text editor with a few little features on it. Now it's all features. And it's great to get rid of a lot of those features and get the visual clutter out of your way. 47:12.35 James Oh, yeah. 47:13.28 Frank So ah if you haven't done it, go clean all that stuff out. Okay, PSA over. Yeah. 47:18.46 James That's my jam. Yeah. And there's also like, there's like a there's a yeah, some of the stuff like I don't use, like I don't need container, I can bring up containers when i need containers, but maybe I don't need containers, you know, um and then you can drag and drop them around. 47:25.38 Frank yeah 47:30.23 James And the thing I also have been doing too is On the, on the, um, chat view, you can also drag things up top. So like there's an entire pain called like chat debug. 47:41.31 James I just put it next to chat. Like it's just right there. I don't need them in two separate areas. Like I'm chatting. Let me look at the chat debug. Oh, okay. There it is. You know, so. 47:47.11 Frank Okay, one more PSA. um Those things on the left, a lot of them you can right click on them and say like, move them over to the right. um That's cool. 47:54.40 James Yep. 47:54.34 Frank Yeah, so you can actually rearrange your ID and get it nicely customized. I could not, James, for the life of me, figure out how to get them back on the left again. Because there's a right click, move to the right, but there's no right click, move back to the left, which is hilarious. ah They got to work on that design stuff. 48:11.42 Frank Because all of this is because I'm an idiot and I didn't realize you can just drag and drop these things. 48:13.07 James Right click. 48:17.15 Frank So you can just, but of course it never occurred to me because I used the menu to move it in the first place. 48:17.98 James You can drag and drop them. 48:22.57 Frank It never occurred to me to just drag it back and I could not figure out how to get it back. So second PSA, um if you accidentally do move something to the right, just drag it, just drag it. You can get it back on the left again. 48:31.95 James Exactly. Boom. 48:35.59 James No, I love it. 48:35.05 Frank It's funny. 48:36.07 James I think it's super, super duper cool. So there's all sorts of good things in there. And like, we probably just like scraped the surface basically like the things that you can do and like things that they announced. 48:43.26 Frank ah 48:44.90 James Yeah. 48:44.78 Frank I think you opened my world by just telling me, honestly, I used github.com slash copilot as just a friend, just just someone to chat with from time to time. 48:52.39 James Yeah. 48:53.69 Frank It didn't occur to me that you can actually ask it to do real work there. So yeah, I recommend everyone look on that left-hand thing, maybe click on the agents thing, maybe click on the cloud sessions or yeah, sorry, the spaces and things like that. 49:07.65 Frank Uh, I did not know you could actually tell it to go do some real work. I thought I had to go create an issue and assign it. No, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna tell it to get to work right now. 49:16.77 James Yeah, I do it. Literally, like on the plane, I joked, but if you went to my X account, I was working on... think I was working on... you know yeah so this is what I do before bed. 49:28.25 James actually have the GitHub mobile app. In the GitHub mobile app, there's just a cloud tasks, but also on the repo, you can just like... Cloud task go. So yeah, if you go, what did I tweet? Let me see my, where's my media. And then here it is. i was like coding on my way home and it was like agent tasks. 49:45.38 James It's like feedback flow. i was like verify static apps, that's add security headers, like update the homepage with this thing. And I just like, I gave it work to do. like I was just go do this thing and then done, you know? So i do that all the time, basically. was like, go do the thing. 49:59.05 James So yeah. 49:58.90 Frank That's great. Yeah. 50:01.18 James Yep. 50:00.62 Frank I will have to pin that one up. Good. 50:04.25 James Yeah, it's super fun. 50:03.78 Frank Well, I am... 50:05.71 James Super fun. 50:06.30 Frank I am glad that you, it seems like you had a really good time in San Francisco, and I think you educated all of us on things, because I can't keep up with all this. Like I said, I just get drunk after the first paragraph. 50:18.11 Frank So um thank you for walking me through paragraphs two, three, and four. I'm not sure I'll use all the features, but I'm going to use the heck out of awesome-copilot and github.com slash copilot. 50:31.43 James I tell people like, even if you're just doing the thing that you talked about, which is like, go to get up.com slash go pilot. And it's like, talk to it, talk to about a repo or go to, you go to your repo and talk about it, like draft an issue, like on your repo, like that's way like you've already like started your journey. And like, actually the fun part is you can do that in the mobile app. 50:49.39 James Like if you open the get a mobile app, which I hadn't had for a while until I've been starting to do all this stuff is turn off notifications. 50:53.61 Frank Yeah. 50:56.06 James Cause you don't need that, but there's legitimately just like a copilot button on the bottom right, and you can just like chat with it. It's like, let's go. It's like, you know, just do a thing. 51:05.59 Frank Yeah, it's funny. but we we have to talk We have to talk to the business people there. I don't have the GitHub app on my phone because link jacks everything. If you click on a GitHub.com link, it always goes into the app, and I hate that. 51:18.19 James Does it does 51:19.14 Frank I really, really hate that. So i if they ever turn off the link jacking, I'll try the app out again because I do like the app. I just hate that every time I try to go to GitHub.com. 51:28.00 James you can do it? It's in the settings, just like prefer universal. 51:31.16 Frank They finally put it in there that just for me. 51:33.67 James Yeah. It says prefer universal links. 51:33.57 Frank Yeah. 51:35.84 James You can just turn it off. So, 51:37.09 Frank Oh, thank goodness. Okay, so I'm not the only one that was driven insane by that. I will give their app a second try. 51:42.49 James uh, I will also say the, I, the GitHub, I think that the GitHub stake stake in the ground, uh, the GitHub iOS app, I think is an app. 51:56.94 James that makes the best use of liquid glass so far that I have. 52:00.89 Frank Oh, bam. 52:02.76 James That's not an Apple app. 52:02.25 Frank Wow, shots fired. 52:04.15 James It's very, very nice. 52:03.80 Frank Okay. 52:07.01 James Very, it was updated on day one, ready to roll. 52:09.30 Frank Nice. 52:10.94 James And it is, it's very nice at all. 52:11.46 Frank They beat me to it. 52:12.62 James Like the menus, all the things it's very, very good. So, um, not yet a liquid glass believer necessarily, but it It looks and it feels very nice. 52:24.21 James Listen, and I can blame myself, but if you have an app, you have an app, you have tabs on the bottom, you got it. 52:30.26 Frank Yeah. 52:32.86 James You got to update. You got update because the drag and drop thing is like amazing. 52:33.76 Frank You just have to. 52:38.76 James I do it. Even the Rover app, which I have complained about so much has updated with liquid glass, at least on the bottom. 52:44.48 Frank and 52:45.87 James And that's all you need to do. So if you have the tabs on the bottom, 52:49.26 Frank ye 52:50.20 James you gotta update it that's you gotta do it i mean i gotta do my app still but like that's the that's the most yeah 52:55.23 Frank If you're a.NET developer, there there's no reason not to. There were no major breaking changes this round. So you just bump up. you Use that 10.0 RC2 puppy and get on it. 53:07.37 James boom i'm ready all right that's gonna do it for this week's merch conflict let's know what's your favorite thing from GitHub universe was if you watched if you watch any of the keynotes and stuff at youtube.com slash GitHub. 53:20.05 James I check them out there ah right into the show merge conflict FM or you can hit us up on the Twitter x or wherever else we may be on the internet but that's gonna for this week's merge conflict. So until next time I'm James Martin now. 53:32.67 Frank And I'm Frank Kruger. Thanks for watching and listening. 53:36.67 James Peace.