mergeconflict220
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Frank Frank Frank, it was Apple event. Day, one of two Manny, this gear, or we get another one later this year. 
Frank: [00:01:02] That's the big question, because not to jump ahead or anything, but they didn't announce any iPhones and that's usually a September thing and they didn't do it not to start on a negative, but it does make you wonder if there'll be an October event or no pandemic phones.
I 
James: [00:01:20] don't know. I don't know, it was really strange. I didn't know what to expect. They had a very curly Q really cool animation for the promotion of the event. You know, we like to do these sort of recap events. Give us your thoughts. And I'll tell you this much, even though we didn't get iPhones, I personally was stoked more on the length of this, of this event because it was under an hour and 20 minutes.
Perfect. Perfect timeframe. 
Frank: [00:01:44] Oh, I thought it was right at an hour. It felt like an hour. Yeah, you're right. Because, uh, I've remembered the previous events were really feeling like marathons. When you get into that second hour, you're just like, what is going on? Um, I was surprised though at the breakdown, because we only had like two major sections, I would say there was a little middle interstitial, but two major sections to this thing and they were roughly half 
James: [00:02:07] hour a piece.
Yeah, Tim was sneaky, right? He said, we're going to focus on, watch an iPad. Um, and then they snuck in services. Yeah. Services here and I'll do okay. Because Apple is becoming more of a services company. The, I prefer them Frank to tie these services to these events than have a services event. Cause we all know what happens when there's a services event.
Nobody wants that. 
Frank: [00:02:34] We get you two albums. It's bad. Oh my God. 
James: [00:02:38] I, so, you know, I got an iPhone recently and Heather and I are figuring out our. Our, our iTunes and our Apple and guest guest guest, the one album that I own, 
Frank: [00:02:49] you actually just have that one album sitting there. 
James: [00:02:52] All I have, it's the one I was like, I can't understand what I'm like, what, what are they?
Anything still 
Frank: [00:02:57] there forever. 500 billion installs or downloads of that album or something. Cause it was just pushed down to everyone. Yeah, we do not need a services event. I completely agree with you. Um, the surface events usually kind of make me a little, uh, sad too, an anxious because no one likes to bill.
I'm like, Oh gosh, what's another monthly subscription thing I have to pay for. So I'm glad we kind of avoided that, but yet didn't avoid it. Anyway, we'll get to that. I'm sure. 
James: [00:03:25] We'll get to it because I'm about to give Apple even more money. Um, now luckily enough of you. Remember, I bought an Apple watch series three for myself, and Heather has one now too.
She has a white one. I have a black one. Um, and I've been enjoying it. Apple watch series three. This is the 38 millimeter centimeter centimeter, millimeter 
Frank: [00:03:42] centimeter, 
James: [00:03:43] 38 smallest one. Didn't even make it anymore because now it's 40 and 44. So it used to be 38 and 42. We both own this one. I think it's the perfect size.
I love it. Mostly for fitness and that's it. I have no apps turned on besides a few, like, you know, security notifications or whatever from a doorbell. But besides that, um, that's all I have is just fitness tracking and, and, uh, we set up how is working good. We've done some back and forth, uh, fitness activities.
I was really excited. And funnily enough, we were talking about getting. Uh, a Apple watch for her dad for Christmas. And I said, well, we should really get him the series five because it has a new sensors and the fall detection, you know, not that he's old, but it's like, you know, even I want the fall detection.
Cause I, I, I ride a bike. I could get hit by a car. Right. And it doesn't know. Um, 
Frank: [00:04:31] and we'll, and I'm just, I'm looking forward to it, them calling the police someday as I'm out on the one. Exactly. You don't just have to be old. You could be reckless also. 
James: [00:04:40] Exactly. Yeah. And, and for me, it was when I got the Apple watch, it was more of a trial.
I didn't want to spend like four or $500 on a watch. I hate watches. I even wear a watch. Now I wear this one all the time and I'm pretty happy. So they made some big announcements in the AppleWatch space. But even before we get to that, because again, Apple watch iPad. I want to visit Apple parks so much.
I'm in to the new cinematography. It's beautiful. I want to be there, Frank. 
Frank: [00:05:05] The giant glass donut toroid spaceship, whatever you want to call it. Yeah. I, I kinda, back in the day, I used to joke with myself that once they finished building that building, maybe I'd apply for a job at Apple because I just wanted to work in that building.
Yeah. Don't bring that up. You know, life choices, all that kind of stuff, but you know, maybe in the future, every building will be a class donut. And there'll be glass donuts everywhere and well, we'll miss the days of concrete rocks in the middle of our city. 
James: [00:05:32] I enjoy the, the, the, the center of that donut though, which was a very green space, really cool spheres.
And I think I'm sucked into their presentation style. We talked about it in the WWDC, um, cause it was so long, like all the keynotes and they're so well produced. This one, I really enjoy, they, they did a little comedy in there. We saw our good friend. What's his 
name? 
Frank: [00:05:56] It's Apple. They always do comedy. I'm putting scare quotes.
Uh, yeah. So it's more like. Bad jokes, but, um, you're right. That's here. It was good. Actually, one of the videos actually made me laugh, so that was good. 
James: [00:06:09] I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it overall. So let's get into it. Apple watch. We knew Wacho S seven was coming and that's what they opened up with. Um, there's um, sleep and hand washing, which I'm very excited for.
I don't know how to wash my hands for 20 seconds. So Apple will tell me how to wash my hands correctly. Do you use your watch at night in a sleep situation? Cause by the time it's. 10:00 PM. My watch only has 30% battery left, so I don't know how Apple really wants me to do I have it slide. 
Frank: [00:06:38] Yeah, exactly.
Exactly. Right into your wrist. Hook the Ivy up and now you're ready for bed. Um, no, I don't do it just cause I find it uncomfortable at night. It's it's I have. I actually find the watch surprisingly comfortable. I just don't like it at night. I don't like devices, you know, nothing in the bed. Just me being an insult in the bed.
That's all I like 
James: [00:07:01] the bed is Frank time. It's Frank time and that's it. 
Frank: [00:07:03] Yeah. Yeah. I, to say like, I wish I found it comfortable because I would, I'm such a narcissist. I would love all that data. I'd love to know how much I sleep or don't sleep in this case and all that kind of stuff. Um, It would probably just make me sad.
Seen me wake up to go to the bathroom at 3:00 AM every day. 
James: [00:07:22] What I'd be really fascinated on is the, you know, obviously you burn less calories while you sleep, but you're still burning calories and your Apple watch tracks the calories, just so you're naturally burning. So if you don't, if you don't wake up and immediately put on your Apple watch and you wear it all day, you're gonna maybe not close that ring if you have a high level.
So the sleeping, giving extra incentive. And getting that data could help you close your rings. What I hope they don't do is introduce a sleep ring. And that would be, that'd be dirty. They did that. Cause I already, already, I already hate the 30 minutes because I was like, okay, I went on a 30 minute walk, but I wasn't strenuous enough in my walk.
So I got to go for another hour walk to get them. So 
Frank: [00:08:04] yeah. I love computers. I love control algorithms. I love robotics. I love AI. I don't love. Big brother. And robot's telling me what to do. So it's just not a feature. I like, I like, um, when I was a game, when it was new, when it was a new game to play, I definitely did all of that stuff, but games get old.
Yeah. 
James: [00:08:27] Yeah. Yeah. I, I I'm trying to do the, they had pillow, a lot of good videos of how the Apple watches a lot of has helped a lot of people. I myself, um, I'm, I'm attempting to monitor myself too. Um, I don't know, just be healthier and make sure I am active working from home all the time. It is a good sort of nice reminder.
Like, Hey, you didn't move. At all ever the day, right. Or you'd have sat in the chair for the last hour and haven't moved at all, you know? So I think that is a little bit nicer, but yeah, I eventually will get over it. 
Frank: [00:09:05] I was raised in such a way that I don't need a device to get me more guilt. I can generate it myself.
Forever. So not really an issue for me. I have a constant reminder of all that stuff in the background of my head. 
James: [00:09:19] Nice. Well then maybe you don't need the brand new series six. 
Frank: [00:09:24] No, uh, it's it's a cool watch cause it has, um, the oxygen sensor that I find really interesting now I'm, poo-pooing a lot of these features, but the truth is I love sensors and a really nice use of my watch I found is while I'm hiking is to.
Yeah, our heart rate, because that way you can kind of hike continuously, not really need to take stops or anything. And that just feels better. Like if I can just hit this heart rate that I know I can continue at for ever then the hike just goes so much better. So I love that use. I don't. No, what pulse oxygen numbers mean, but I'm sure like it's will be another number for me to monitor while hiking.
James: [00:10:06] Yeah. I assume that you want the blood oxygen saturation reading to be high, right? 
Frank: [00:10:14] Sounds good. Oxygen's usually good. Not a doctor. Hopefully the app just has a dial bad. Good. And get withdrawn 
James: [00:10:23] the heart rate sensor. Right. I don't know. What's low and what's high. In fact, Heather and I were trying to figure that out because hers is so dramatically different than me.
Um, and I was like, that's weird. 
Frank: [00:10:33] Yeah. And I don't know how an app could do it because only through trial and error. Did I find the heart rate that like I could go forever at, you know, literally 10 beats per minute more and I would have to stop and take a break. So there was just this nice sweet spot.
James: [00:10:47] Yeah. And I think for every single person's a little bit different, you know, um, we're, we're recording this live. So some people in the chat are saying like, do you want the high nineties? But then it's going to be different if you're working out versus walking versus like sitting right or sleeping should be different.
I don't 
Frank: [00:11:00] know. Oh, and Harrison, I'm not that healthy. I'm well into the hundreds. Well, 
James: [00:11:04] that's what I'm up to think. So, so I don't know, maybe mine's lower and Heather's higher, but then she's in better shape than me. So I don't understand that. Um, she also is different gender than me, so I imagining her body, her body size 
Frank: [00:11:16] matters.
Everything matters. The weather matters. Your mood matters. Yeah. Health is complicated. 
James: [00:11:21] They also announced that this puppy here will not only have the blood oxygen saturation, but also an autometer altimeter ultra monitor spot. All small matter. 
Frank: [00:11:31] I'll show you letter. That's cool. Um, I have a series five and if I'm using my memory brains correctly, I think it has a GPS or some form of that.
So I think it could do some form of altitude before, but this must be some kind of dedicated hardware for them to like call it out like this. Cause we've had barometers, I think forever. And you could do these relative changes. That's how it knows if you're going up and down the steps and all that. But altimeter is a bit of a different beast.
I'm curious, uh, what the actual mechanics are of it. 
James: [00:12:02] Yeah. Cause it definitely like when I'm out hiking, it'll tell you the elevation gain to, and from, I think the difference here is that this one's always on, so it must have dedicated stuff because obviously the you're right. PPS is telling me my ups and downs.
I'm assuming it's tracking something that like, my phone can do it too, but this one's always on. So they must have dedicated hardware, like you're saying, because I think that's really cool, especially if you're a hiker. You know, and you're going out. And I think the combination that they showed, why these two things together important because they showed a video of a lady climbing a really, really high mountain or something, checking her blood oxygen level and the altimeter.
So she gets the I'm at 9,000 feet elevation, which is high. Am I blood oxygen? Is that because you've hiked Frank you've passed out basically. And you Kilimanjaro, right? You attempted right here. So these are the things that are important for you. Oh, 
Frank: [00:12:55] they are, but I hope she wasn't like hanging out. I don't remember this part.
Was she hanging onto the cliff when she was looking at data? Usually I'm strolling along over some rocks or something when I'm looking at this data, but yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll hike become just, um, um, tread full arduous, walks up at giant Hill. So sometimes ignorance is bliss, but at other times, like I said, it's fun having all that data.
James: [00:13:22] Yeah. How do you think new thought new, new face to face watches fit, watch faces. Awesome. Terrible. Whatever. 
Frank: [00:13:29] Some of them were attractive, but, uh, uh, okay. I'm going to be a downer again, just for a quick minute. Just real quick minute. Gosh, it makes me upset that we still can't write our own watch faces because keep saying how important watch faces are and how much people love to personalize their devices.
And it's like Apple, you know, a real easy way to create a lot of watch faces, let us sell some, like, I think we've seen that people aren't so interested in paying for watch apps, except for like the big ones. There's quite a spread. You don't get the good long tail that you normally get in the app store, but I have a feeling people would be.
Paying for watch faces kind of without trouble, especially since we've been limited by whatever Apple designers, uh, gave us for the year. So nothing against the Apple designers. I actually really like a lot of the watches I use the watch, good stuff there. Uh, but gosh, darn it. It have developers make, watch faces.
James: [00:14:24] Well, if you notice, I believe that they have partnered up with a few select. Developers and an enable them on a one off to create, watch faces. Cause they showed that there was a surfing app and there was also a, uh, app for healthcare providers that would link into their apps. I don't know if they were, they looked like custom watch Fe watches.
I don't know if they were just, um, complications or not, but they were. Quite different. Uh, I just have the activity one. I don't, I haven't one watch face. Heather has three. I have one. And just, I'll just, that's it. 
Frank: [00:14:58] I limited myself to one because somehow I would manage to keep swapping between them accidentally.
And I didn't want to keep doing that. So I deleted all the others. Yeah. The way those screenshots read to me was that is the modular watch face with a giant complication in the middle. It's not a clever thing. A surfing app could do imagine what a surfing app could do as a watch face. You can do the cool things.
Webcams who knows, you know, like show me a live feed of the ocean right now. How about that for a watch face? 
James: [00:15:32] That'd be cool. Someday. One day, watch us. Five eight, nine, 10, something like that. 
Frank: [00:15:38] Well, see, you're supposed to defend Android here and say, I'm supposed to get an Android wear one, but 
James: [00:15:44] I know what Android wear is doing.
And in fact, you could build your own watch faces. And I think that that was one of the downfalls early on because the battery life, the technology, and it just wasn't there. So it was a little bit tricky. Um, but yeah, I think the new watch faces are cool. It's cool to have more like the art one. Um, that seems cool.
But what I'm really stoked for is that they turned. The Apple park loop into a band. It happened like they were like, we were in a cylindrical thing. Um, let's make a solo loop and now it's at once, you know, cause it's my worst part of this app or the watch is that putting it on and figuring the little tiny hole to put a little notch into where the Lupe I am so into.
I think it's the coolest, this is Franklin. Frank texted me up to the PA after the thing, he was like, this is a boring event as a design. Amazing because I got a whole new band I got by this band I'm in. I want it. So cool. 
Frank: [00:16:37] Well, you are using the default band and that's, it's a good band. I liked the default band, but that fold is really a pain.
I hate that. Uh, so I've been using the five-year-old Velcro band. Which is amazing. It's just, it reminds me of the watch I wore when I was five years old, you outgrow it on and it's there and it feels great. So I, I love that one, but definitely the new bands are interesting. The weave one that really made me feel like a five year old.
I remember making like the macrame necklaces and things like that. Leaving these little watch bands. 
James: [00:17:13] Yeah. I thought the, I thought they looked really cool. My problem will be that, you know, this, this one comes for free. The other ones you have to pay for. So I don't know if I'm going, is there a cheap if this new band loop, which is a solo, it's cool because you can just slide it on, slide it off and it has cool technology in it.
Um, I think that's nifty, but yeah, they'll probably be expensive. So 
Frank: [00:17:33] real quick, going back to the watch faces, uh, what did you think of the emoji 
James: [00:17:38] one? 
Frank: [00:17:39] Okay. Just wanted to make sure we're on the same page. No conflict there. 
James: [00:17:42] I will say because of the new family setup mode that they introduced later on, you can now create an emoji from your watch.
Now I don't have, I have an iPhone S E and the new one, and I don't have the depth sensors. So I had to like, customize it, create it myself instead of like magically do it for me. So mine looks stupid compared to, to decide doesn't look correct, but. I'm like, I don't know if I want a photo of myself. I don't want my own me emoji on myself because you could have friends MIMO.
Like I could have Frank on 
Frank: [00:18:15] there. Interesting. Like, yeah, you could have like me serving you something like James. It's time to go for a run James. This time to stand up, Jay, I like this a lot. You should have me telling you to do all this stuff. Nope. 
James: [00:18:29] Nope. I refuse. All right. So family setup, this is actually really Nieto.
Uh, if you have kids, we have some parents or grandparents you want to buy them an Apple. Watch the new family setup on enables you to set it up without the need for a phone. They can have their own SIM card ends. They're gonna have its own dedicated phone number. There's parental controls, study time. You can get a location alerts where your children are at which that seems I don't have children, but that seems cool.
I want, you know, if your kids are up to no good, but also there's a bunch of ways that kids can now get their activity tracked as well. And I wish I had that as a child. Um, so I thought this new family set up, I need to look at it more. Uh, with it, but I thought that was kinda neat. I don't know if I would, I would, if we did get it for, for like Heather's dad, like we would just give it to him.
Maybe set it up for him when we're there and turn off all the notifications. Cause that's the worst part about the phone is all the notifications in the watch. But besides that, I thought that this was neat. 
Frank: [00:19:25] Yeah, it was a little reminder that we're in a pandemic and that families are having to do a lot of schooling at home.
And a lot of dealing with kids on devices, with webcams and all that stuff. So there's a lot of new challenges out there. I don't have kids either. I don't have to deal with any of that. You all have my sympathies. So good luck with that. Hopefully the software update will help a little bit and. Well, it's gotta be insanity.
Oh yeah. 
James: [00:19:51] Yeah. I think my, my, my number one knows number two, it doesn't mean number two announcement of the, of the, of the entire event was the AppleWatch se it could go very nice with my iPhone. See, this is finally the what's kind of weird because it's the in between, which makes sense because it is like the iPhone se because you can buy an older iPhone eight or the se, which is better than the eight or the iPhone 11 pro right.
It's it's, it's not the, the old model. It's the in between model that will become old. But anyways, the Apple watch, they did just like they did the iPhone se, which is they use the same exact chip set. The . It has the latest motion sensors and fall detection built right in. And it starts at two 79 with GPS.
Compared to three 99 for the series six. And of course you can still buy the series three for one 99. So it is hard because I do like that this has the  chip. I like that it has a new sensors and fall detection, but if I was buying it, it's still hard for me to go in at two 79 compared to like one 79 that I got this for like an extra hundred dollars a back and forth on it.
Right? Like you can't get series three anymore than obviously. But obviously for like Heather's dad, this would be perfect. Right? I'm not going to spend get a series six. There's no, I don't need that right before, uh, Series or se series se a swatch, if you will. That's funny. Um, I think it's perfect. I think this is a beautiful device and I'm very happy they did it.
So a little high in price. Cause I think it's a watch and like I'm used to buying watches for like $10 and putting it on my wrist. 
Frank: [00:21:30] Yeah. Um, but there's so much technology in there. Like I can honestly see both sides. Like in a lot of cases, Apple has inflated prices, a hundred percent. Um, But at some, I buy little chips and I glue together a little chips and I sought them together.
The costs add up very quickly. So you actually are getting a lot of bang for the buck at, I think honestly, all these price points, there is a nice theme to everything today, which was, I'm trying to save you a little bit of money 
James: [00:22:00] because nothing was over $400. Like they didn't announce anything under 400 over $400.
I don't think. 
Frank: [00:22:08] I really appreciate that, you know, that is a smart move on their part. Uh, so yeah, what's the difference between two 80 and 200? It's a tough one. It would have been easier if they just eliminated the series three. It's just making me think this series three is become the iPad mini of the line 
James: [00:22:25] of the iPad too.
Frank: [00:22:26] Right. The iPad too. Yeah. Just keep it around forever has. Cause it's just kind of a perfect price point and it's a perfect little device, honestly. There's nothing wrong with the series three. So, uh, I, I did miss one thing though, is the, uh, S E what bezel is that? Is that the old style or the new style? 
James: [00:22:43] New hotness?
It's the same exact thing. It's just like the, the se you know, I don't know if it has the, have to imagine. I don't know if it has the. The, the, the thing where you can do your thing, the EKG I'm imagining it does because it says it has all the latest sensors. So I think the only difference is that it doesn't have the new always on ultimate Tolmatter and then the new blood oxygen saturation reading, from what I know, but I should go to apple.com/watch and actually look at 
Frank: [00:23:13] this.
So that's a pretty good deal. Last year's model, which is an amazing device for 280 bucks. Got it. 
James: [00:23:21] I mean, can I do compare, how do I compare devices on this Apple thing? Fall detection there. Waterproof. I have their websites so big, like everything. So scroll. Yeah. There's not a, there's not a compare button, whether or not a compare button.
Oh, there it is. Compare that has it, has them facing each other? This is cool. The compare has all three. Okay. So 44 millimeter or 40 millimeter for both. Always on. Okay. So here's the difference? Series six, always on retina display se retina display. It's the same, same size, just one's always on. 
Frank: [00:23:57] I would say, um, I was really excited for that always on screen because I found the watch turning on and off to be a little bit annoying, but in truth, it doesn't matter that much.
Cause it comes fully on when you raise it to your hand. Anyway. So again, another win in the column for the, I see. 
James: [00:24:15] Yeah. And then the se does not have blood oxygen app ECG or. The no that's it just doesn't have those two things. It does have the always on altimeter, which, you know, that's cool. Yeah. 
Frank: [00:24:29] I just feel silly because I felt like I always had an altimeter.
James: [00:24:33] You do, you do? It's just not always on 
Frank: [00:24:35] that's all. Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm going to have to find some technical articles. So I am curious what the physical thing is. 
James: [00:24:42] Yeah. So it's kind of cool. Um, and they said it's available, you know, this Friday, which is cool too, to get. And I was like, Oh, are we going to get.
The new updates, you know, for iPad, you know, for watchOS on Friday. No, we're gonna on the 16th, which we're recording this on the 15th. So on the 60, we get it tomorrow. 
Frank: [00:25:01] Yeah. They kept saying we'll have even more announcements tomorrow. I'm like, well, you could spend 10 more minutes and just tell us now.
Nope, we're going to wait till tomorrow. 
James: [00:25:09] I'll wait till tomorrow is when you can get it. But I'm excited for . I'm excited for the se I think overall I'm a happy with my watches now. 
Frank: [00:25:16] Yeah. Well, that's my question though, is I thought you were a content with your watch. So this is purely as a gift, right? This wouldn't be an upgrade that you yourself are going to do, but maybe as a gift, this would be a different device to get.
James: [00:25:28] Yeah, that's correct. I would say I would get the se as a gift. I still think that for Heather, I still would have bought her a series three, because just so we would, you would put match up. I just don't. I mean, I just don't think that. I don't think that the extra a hundred and cause you can get the, yeah, I phone series three for, I, for like 170 bucks, you can get a pretty cheap, so it's 180, 110, $120 difference then, um, I just don't know if it's worth it.
Right. Um, but if you were getting as a gift for somebody that needed those new sensors, then I think that like the fall detection, that's the thing I really want is the fall detection. Yeah. But I would say. If I bought this, here's the difference. If I had bought these watches a year ago, I would think about doing an Apple upgrade program.
The problem is I just bought these watches two months ago. 
Frank: [00:26:21] Oh, I didn't realize that the watches had the update program. You can do that for the watch. I 
James: [00:26:27] mean, I would sell it on eBay. That's my upgrade. 
Frank: [00:26:29] That's okay. I'm sorry. Cause there are the, like, um, the phone ones where you can get a new phone every year.
I was like, can you get, can I get a new watch every year? That sounds, tell me more about this update program 
James: [00:26:40] next year. They'll introduce that. I'm sure. 
Frank: [00:26:42] Yeah. No, I'm bad at reselling hardware though. So it's a sunk cost for me. I have to keep that in mind the program for me. 
James: [00:26:51] Yeah. Like I will definitely, if they come out with a new iPhone se like I'll update to that from this one.
So this one for a few, you know, kind of make it, but yeah, I think next year, if they do a refresh of the se, I would probably upgrade. Okay. 
Frank: [00:27:04] Yeah. You know, not to be, maybe they're not the most attractive devices on the planet, but I really like the new design, 
James: [00:27:13] the new one, just saying, 
Frank: [00:27:14] yeah, I love the new design so you can join the new club at some point.
The 
James: [00:27:20] problem there'll be like a new, new design, and then I'll actually stop the old design. 
Frank: [00:27:24] They do that. They did that with the iPads. I have to wonderful iPad pros at my disposal. It's more than a person could ever use. Why would, why do you need one too? I pads almost said, why do you need one iPad? But then you would say, why would you possibly need to.
What would I do with a third, but they all look so old when Apple shows their cute 3d renders and their little cute presentations and they're glass donut with sweeping camera movements through a forest. This company, 
James: [00:27:56] it was beautiful. It was beautiful. They did put the watches and this 3d hologram, 
Frank: [00:28:01] Oh my God.
James: [00:28:02] Augmented reality. I was like, that's so cool. 
Frank: [00:28:05] It's a little over the top. I think we're going to look back at some of this and like the way we look back at lawnmower man, and that kind of stuff. But, um, for now it's pretty cool. Yeah, 
James: [00:28:13] no, for now it's called 
Frank: [00:28:14] no shame, no shame. 
James: [00:28:15] We're ready for the actual number.
One thing that I'm most excited about, I better not 
Frank: [00:28:20] be a pun. That was a bond, wasn't it? Yeah, 
James: [00:28:22] no, no, no, no. I'm the number one thing from this event that they announced 
Frank: [00:28:29] APOE scared 
James: [00:28:31] fitness plus. 
Frank: [00:28:35] Jazzercise. 
James: [00:28:37] Okay. Okay. So 
Frank: [00:28:39] no, it's pretty good. Now let me start, let me start. Okay. I was rolling my eyes the entire time, but by the end of it, I was like, maybe I'll do this because I have gained a lot of weight in my quarantine shutdown time, and I need to shed some of that weight.
And I don't know if Jazzercise is the right answer for me, but maybe it is. Maybe I should not mock it and do it. What do you have to say? 
James: [00:29:07] Okay. So there's Frank, Frank, Frank. Um, no. So here's the thing is I've been going back and forth on. Investing in some sort of fitness program. I used to go to the gym and all are go to the gym.
I used, you know, I have, I have a Microsoft, we have like a fit, stay, fit, credit that we can use. So I purchased some different goods and use those. Like when I'm doing maintenance on my bikes and whatnot, that's a nice nifty. Um, but. You know, a membership at a gym is very expensive. 
Frank: [00:29:41] Once a month is always cheap though.
I don't know how they do it. 
James: [00:29:44] I switched you over real fast, but you can pay six, 700 bucks a year for a gym membership, and then you're never going to go because it's the gym now. Mostly cheap 
Frank: [00:29:52] and New York. That's like a month. 
James: [00:29:54] Yeah, that's true. Yeah. That's true. That's Seattle prices. So I've gone back and forth on, on getting like a Peloton bike.
Uh, or some other type of thing, that's in a vein, but usually they are 10 to 15 bucks a month, you know, Peloton services, 40 bucks a month on top of the bike, that's a gym membership. It's expensive. Apple comes on and said, Hey, do you have an Apple watch? I dunno if it only works with the Apple watch, I don't quite understand yet.
But they said, they said, we're going to introduce this new service. It says, just wear the Apple watch and it has 10 different exercises and it's just like Peloton or anything like that, or any of those other ones where you, you can't on your phone, on your TV or wherever you're at it also overlays your rings and your tracking on the screen.
That's brilliant. So there's some connection there with the app. And it's a lot it's on demand. It doesn't feel like it's a lie. They're always on demand classes and they have 10 different activities. I want to say. Um, help me see Apple fitness. Uh, plus I want to say, but they obviously have bike riding.
They have, um, you know, All the exercise, like, you know, they cycling, they had hit, they have, um, I don't know, a bunch of different studio workouts. I'd have to see their, website's not very good. Cause I'm on the newsroom who goes to the newsroom, Apple. Um, it was there's 10 different exercises with it. With they've Heil, they've hired basically a bunch of people to pre-record fitness activities.
So you can do indoor exercises. You can do like hit programs. You can do cycling programs. Um, You can do elliptical. You can do treadmill training, things like that. But the idea is that there's a new law that don't need any equipment. There's yoga, builtin alone there. And that's pretty good. Here's the kicker, Frank, here's the kicker.
It is $10 a month or $80 a year, but Frank, there's more plus up to five family members for free. Apple Apple killed. 
Frank: [00:31:55] What are the family gym memberships? Why don't we get to have five people free at the gym you 
James: [00:32:00] don't use to pay for them. You get a discounted rate to pay, to pay them more in general. And I've definitely done the deal.
Do you want a fan? You want a member? That'd be $1,400. They will give you a hundred dollars off. So to me, this is great because at $10 a year or a month, And $80 a year. So $80, let me calculator this 80 divided by 12, $6 and 66 cents, um, month. That's really cheap. I mean, that is, that is a coffee and a half.
Frank: [00:32:31] Sure. For a bunch of videos, prerecorded videos, exercise, videos that you can get on YouTube, but sure. It is though kind of a wonderful synergy of all the Apple stuff out there because, uh, well, the setup they kept showing was you have it on your TV. So I assume you have an Apple TV and you have a watch.
That's doing all the censoring and measuring you. So you're doing your exercises on the TV. The watch datas are on your watch and it's being projected on TV. Cool setup. They also showed, uh, doing it on your phone. But it definitely seemed like a multi device kind of setup, uh, that they were promoting here.
But it's funny how it brings everything together. It brings the TV, the watch music, you can set your platelets to it. And it'll remember what playlist you use for the exercise. They said, they're throwing in some AI stuff, which sounds, you know, totally at my lane. But at the same time, I have no idea what they're doing.
I'm afraid of what the robots will think about my health and what my watch is reporting to them. So for me, it seems like just. A super advanced version of 1990s TV exercising 
James: [00:33:41] totally is. And I, and I approve it only because as a individual that goes through a lot of spin classes, a spin class can be $20.
Again, that was three months of the service for $20 to do one class in person. It's very different in person than even on Peloton. I would say my friend, Jesse. Um, yeah, I use his Peloton before I really enjoyed it, but again, $40 a month to do live classes. And actually when I go to the gym, they have a pet, a Peloton on demand station, which is a stationary bike with a big tablet on it that you can do prerecorded stuff.
And I do spin classes for the music, things like this and individuals that are really into spin classes. And different things. We do it for the music and that's why they said, Oh, you can download the playlist afterwards. That's why 
Frank: [00:34:30] seeing that it's almost like a club atmosphere inside the little biking studios.
Yeah. Just steam coming off everyone instead of smoke effects. Yeah. That's pretty funny 
James: [00:34:40] for me though. I think that I will do the. The year membership because of the family plan. Cause now it's really like 40 bucks a month, a year for us. And then Heather does yoga and she does the yoga videos, but it would be nice for it to connect to her.
Watch. You know what I mean? That's the kicker because she can do a video and she can tell her why she's doing yoga, but this is nice. Cause it's there, it's over it, et cetera, et cetera. Right. And I think that is cool. And uh, you know, I think, you know, people are right where literally, um, in general Peloton can be really expensive and there's other trainers out there like Swift and other things like that.
But you know, that's sort of the one problem is. It can be very expensive. So I think for anybody, 80 bucks a year, this is just a great value. So I'm into it. 
Frank: [00:35:33] Yeah. And if nothing else, that's another guilt source to make me go exercise. Like while I'm paying for it, I better go exercise and the watch will probably start beeping at me more.
It was actually the, uh, the yoga one is the one that got me the most interested because that's one of the ones where I think when you do it yourself, at least. Speaking for myself. I tend to do a bad job when I do it all by myself. And I'm not comparing myself against someone who's doing it properly and all that kind of stuff.
Yeah. But they also supported like free weights. So it's not all Jazzercise. So there are some like good, proper, basic stuff. And I appreciate those ones. It's, it's a weird service, another offer. So let's see, I'm paying for iCloud. I'm paying for Apple TV. I'm paying for Apple music. I'm paying for Apple fitness plus what's there a plus in there.
James: [00:36:24] There's a plus in there. That's great. Because Apple fitness is the, is the app. 
Frank: [00:36:28] Right, right. Fitness, pluses, all the videos. Okay, cool. That's a lot of services. What else is that? Uh, did I name all the Apple services 
James: [00:36:37] game, game, arcade, arcade 
Frank: [00:36:39] game arcade. Oh my gosh. There's so many of these things. So the funniest thing, and I didn't even realize this was coming, but if I was a smart money person, I would.
They're going to have a bundle plan. Of course, they're going to have a bundle plan because they have all of these distinct services coming out. So this is a no brainer, but it caught me off guard just because I'm such a bad business person. So basically they finally said, look, we have all these services and when we don't want to keep sending you 50 different bills, so let's unify it.
And what's the best word for unification. The word one, Apple one. What is the hardest thing to Google for the word one, but anyway, Apple one. Tell me about the, 
James: [00:37:22] yeah. Fascinating because they, they, they have the, the core services, which they consider TV, iCloud, arcade, and music, and they've decided to bundle those into a one stop shop for India individuals at $15 a month or.
You can get family for $20 a month. So five, five more people. And then in some select countries, I don't know why that is, but that's what they said. You can get those four services. Now, these, I gets bigger by the way. So that's the only thing that changes is iCloud goes up to two terabytes in this plan called premier, which is $30 a month.
And with that, you get the family. Yeah. I'm imagining it's family. They didn't clarify. I don't think, but it comes with Apple news and. As well, 
Frank: [00:38:17] Apple news, Apple news. That's the one I was forgetting 
James: [00:38:20] was Apple news. 
Frank: [00:38:21] You said it right when I was trying to remember all the services are aware. News is the one I didn't forget.
Cause I don't pay attention to Apple news. People do like it though. So yeah, I think it has a following, but I just never got into it myself. Yeah. This is I'm a little bit scared now because I didn't realize they were upping the iCloud amount with each one. And some, I have no idea how much I'm giving Apple per month.
I'm in that awkward place where I keep using the justification that I'm an app developer. So I should try these services kind of thing. The only one I, I know for sure I'm not paying for, Oh, actually I'm not doing so bad, so I'm not paying for the arcade and I'm not paying for music. So I'm only paying for iCloud.
Fascinating. Are you going to be a bundler? 
James: [00:39:08] Nope. And I'll tell you why, because I did get, when I bought my iPhone and about my Apple watch, I did get three months for free of music and three months for free of news. I don't use those at all. Cause I use YouTube music cause it's bundled into my YouTube premium account and I already paid, you know, Google enough.
Uh, I also have a year free of Apple TV, so I don't really need it. Bundle that in, I D the only the service here and an Apple news, I am using it, but I just use Google news. And I just, I'm not really a news reader. Right. Like, I, I sound really nothing. Um, whereas here, if I'm paying $30 a month, that's, that's going to be 360 bucks a year.
And the only thing I would really add on to there is going to be the Apple fitness. I'll just buy that separate. Like I don't use enough of these services is there, I do play for the 200 gigabytes of, um, iCloud storage for $3. There's a month again. So even there, I'm only at $3 a month, plus six Emily at $10 a month, you know, and I, and that the $30 it's too big of a difference in general.
Yeah, 
Frank: [00:40:15] and I still pay for that service. I can't even remember what it's called, but it's $15 a year where old timers, like it's me that used to have MP3s and CDs. It uploaded them all up to the cleared. And you could listen to all your clued music. Um, it's kind of defunct these days when you have YouTube red or whatever the heck it's called now, Apple music and all the music things.
Uh, but at the same time, for some reason, I'm still paying for it. I'm just realizing right now I should not be paying for that. I should get rid of that 
James: [00:40:48] iTunes match. Yeah. That's what it is. Yeah. Thank 
Frank: [00:40:51] you. Gosh, I couldn't even remember the name. 
James: [00:40:53] The funny part is that. Um, Google music, which started. That was what it was.
It was four of us, a streaming service, Google music enabled me to upload all my music to it. And I just went through the migration of Google music to YouTube music and YouTube. Music's not as good as Google music, by the way. Um, It's not as terrible. 
Frank: [00:41:10] I keep clicking on the video. I don't want to watch the video.
I want to listen to the music. It's called music. 
James: [00:41:17] Yeah. It's the worst. It's like, okay. YouTube. If I wanted to go watch a music video, I'd go to the YouTube app. But yeah, if they're going to change it again, Google, they don't know what they're doing, but, um, in general, I will say the Apple music app is very nice.
However, I, I already pay for YouTube and I get a service for free. Right. You know, the thing is I am literally paying. Every company about $10 a month. I pay Google actually a lot more. I have the hundred dollars a year for Google drive only for Google photos. Cause it's the best photo app. Um, I. I'm lucky at work.
I get Microsoft office and one driver for you, but you know, whatever, you're in heavy polygon, free to you get for free. So, but I do use one drive for all my storage, cause I that's going to be that's my defacto. I liked that one the best. Cause I think one sync is my favorite sync protocol. Um, And then I'd actually give Apple, um, obviously a little bit for iCloud storage and I will be giving them some money for Apple fitness plus.
So I do give all of them and not to mention we all give Amazon money. Um, as well for prime, which includes everything by the way that we just listed. Cause they give you everything in prime, but no one uses anything besides the free shipping. 
Frank: [00:42:32] They, they, they, I love Amazon music because they give you like 80%, just enough where you feel like maybe I should upgrade to their expensive music service.
But yeah. That they, they just have the wrong level because I've never felt the need to pay for their more expensive music service. If they don't have a song, if they won't play the song in my included prime subscription, I'm just like, well, I just won't be hearing that song today. 
James: [00:42:54] The problem is we both have YouTube premium because ads on YouTube.
I never want to watch in my life. And that includes YouTube music, which while it's not really great. It's also totally fine. It's really great. It's still like, whatever. It's not as good as other ones, but for free. I'm not going to pay for other things. Yeah. 
Frank: [00:43:14] I haven't noticed anything they don't have. So I don't know what my musical taste is.
I don't. Yeah. It's it's like the Beatles, right? It's always the Beatles and a Radiohead. It's like whether those two are on it. Exactly. Yeah. 
James: [00:43:28] All right. So service is done. Let's get to the big one. We're getting a green iPad. 
Frank: [00:43:34] Do you mean the color or the environmental ism? I'm all confused though. Well, green one green 
James: [00:43:40] are both environmentally friendly and it's green.
It's literally the color green Frank. 
Frank: [00:43:45] Usually you bring up the pinks and the reds and the Mavs when, uh, when they add color to the iPads. But yeah, this is totally exciting. So what they're doing is well, okay, so we've got two iPads, right? And I kind of forgot that this line existed the iPad air, because for me, it's just been iPad and iPad pros for so long.
Uh, I wasn't. Yeah, I just, the iPad air, I just totally forgot about it, but it turns out they decided to add some love to the iPad air and to the, the, uh, iPad, not the iPad too. Thank goodness. No love for me. I've had two, but to the, the it's so weird how the naming system goes because the iPad is way more modern than the iPad too.
Anyway, so. We got for a mere $329, which when we're talking about those prices for the watches, this is a much bigger device, a huge piece of glass with a gorgeous, giant screen on it. Uh, they're calling it the eighth generation iPad. So I guess that'd be it kind of thing. Yeah. Had 
James: [00:44:51] different from iPad air.
It's different. Different. 
Frank: [00:44:54] Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. These are two different things. So we'll get to the iPad air. Yeah. Yes, but this is the cool $330 one, which seems like. A sweet, sweet spot for an iPad if I was, uh, yeah, whatever, if I had gifts to give, if I had money to spend on people that I love, I'd be giving them this iPad.
James: [00:45:13] Very true. Yeah. That is very, very nice. And I was talking to Craig Dunn and, um, my friend Craig, and he was like, man, there's green iPad. I really want it. He said, but I haven't had. An iPad for so long. And I was like, yeah, I don't, I'm not Abbott in general person. So this section I wasn't as excited about only because I'm definitely not a tablet person.
I'm just not, it just doesn't fit into my life currently. And I don't know why that is, but for 10 years it hasn't. 
Frank: [00:45:46] Well, it's a good thing. You have me because especially during this quarantine, um, I've really fallen in love with my iPad. It's basically the main device I use aside from my big computer computer that surrounds me and that I do most of my work on the iPad is, um, Would I prefer to be on in the morning, you know, when I'm just waking up drinking coffee, I play on the iPad.
I'm done with work. Sit on the couch. Okay. The iPad. When I go to the park, I'll take an iPad. Oh, it's pathetic. Okay. Nevermind. But, um, I was, it was fine. Cause I was looking over at my laptop and I don't think I've touched my laptop since January. And yet both of my iPads. If you can believe that, why would anyone need to?
I pads, I use both constantly, um, because they're portable and I move on from place to place and they serve different roles. Sometimes it's a kitchen iPad sometimes. Whatever living room iPad. So all, that's the say I was excited for this section. 
James: [00:46:48] Yeah. I think that makes a lot of sense. I do have a surface go and I don't really use it that much.
Um, I do enjoy it, but again, using a windows device versus an iPad, even though it's iPad iOS and has more dual screen split capabilities, it's still sort of single app use case. You know, I want Gmail, I got to open a browser, go to GML, whereas an iPad I could just. Tap on that and go to it. It's a hard sell for me.
I don't know. Maybe now that I have an iPhone though, maybe, and an Apple watch, maybe 
Frank: [00:47:23] got to get the trifecta. Yeah. Well, it's funny because, um, I wasn't expecting this. I didn't do any of the, I didn't read any articles or anything before this event. And they had just released new iPad pros. Uh, back in whatever the before times.
No, I think it was during the dark times, but at some point they were released, uh, and they were a pretty minor upgrade. What they added was the LIDAR sensor. And that is the feature that as an app developer, I've been most curious about because it kind of, it hits into all the fields I'm interested in, um, hardware, robotics, cameras, sensing the environment, all that kind of stuff.
Uh, that new sensor can really do interesting things. So knowing nothing about this event, I was expecting and hoping for a LIDAR iPhone, which did not come. And then they announced two iPads, which. Do not have LIDAR either, which made me sad, but that is going back to what ended up being the actual theme tonight of practical devices.
No one needs a LIDAR. These are, um, really good performance upgrades and hardware upgrades at good price points. So that's what. This week, or today was all about no LIDAR, sadly for me to play with. But at the same time, my wallet is super happy that I'm not paying for a $1,200 iPhone right now. It's 
James: [00:48:53] true.
Yeah, no, it's true. I mean the new iPad air, that is the one that was over four. It starts at 600, but it has, um, you know, a new touch ID on top, which is kind of cool. It's the first time the touch ID has been reintroduced. Um, I guess it's on the Mac book pro. Um, however that is a square. This one is the first time.
It's not a circle or square. It's a rectangle with bevels on the side of it. So that's kind of cool, but I think more importantly, what's nice about this iPad air is this brand new, a 14 bionic chip, which is the first time in history. According to them, it's a five nanometer processor, 11.8 billion transistors, Frank.
Frank: [00:49:38] So when I started college, I started out in a program called micro electronic engineering. And you study how to build microprocessors. That's what you do. I dropped out of that program because microelectronic engineering is terrible. I learned a lot in the time that I had in my short time in that program.
And I hung out with all those people and we had a fathom at school. It was a lot of fun. Anyway, we got into endless lectures about just how small can you make a transistor before basically physics breaks down. It stops being a transistor because it's so small, the electrical effects you're looking for, can't be established.
Therefore it doesn't work. And we would joke, we would say, yeah, somewhere around there, five nanometers, four nanometers, three, you know, some, some ballpark somewhere around these numbers. I'm just like dying in my head, thinking back to those conversations where, I mean, w we had projections saying that we would be down to like five nanometers somewhere in the 2020s.
It's a little bit early, I think, which is good for sure. But at the same time, My mind's just boggling. I did the math. This is really rough math. The numbers are going to be a little bit off, but that's approximately 15 atoms wide. That is how wide the gate is on the transit. 15 atoms, you know, the smallest thing in the universe.
Yeah, the constituent parts of the atom, but who cares? It's atomic. It's the, we use the word atomic for a meaning only 15 atomic units are comprising this transistor. Oh, the engineer in me loves it so much. 
James: [00:51:15] It is really cool. I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty, just jazz and, you know, they're they doing a great job with the processors?
It's, you know, New architectures for their CPS and their GPU. And they say it's faster and 40% more transistors. And I like more transistors don't you like more 
Frank: [00:51:32] transistors? Well, as long as they're doing machine learning. Yes, I do. 
James: [00:51:36] I think that was a big part of it is they did show a bunch of really cool.
Um, developer videos of some of the stuff that they teamed up with to do, you know, more intense graphics and machine learning. The one that I was surprised on that I thought you would have done was this a developer that would take an image and like zoom in and then do the roof and enhance, enhance. And I was like, this is a Frank Kruger thing.
Why is he not on 
Frank: [00:51:59] here? Yeah, I presented this at our meetup. Like, God, it feels like generations ago. Who knows how long it's been since then? Uh, it's, it's really cool because you don't go to five nanometers for no reason you do it because, um, we want these devices with all this power to last for 10 hours or whatever it's rated battery.
It is. And Apple to their credit have really. And steadfast and keeping that kind of all day battery life out of a charge on these devices. I have a 12, 13 inch, whatever iPad pro that I don't think actually last 10 hours. But other than that, like, they've been really good at keeping that promise. And so you have to keep knocking down the transistor size because at 15 Adams you can't put much power through it.
So you use less power, less cool, less need for cooling, all that good stuff. The, um, Whether I like to see those think those transistor counts. I always wonder if they're including memory because hopefully we're getting memory upgrades too. So w where can transistors go? Transistors can go to your Ram.
They can go to your CPU of which there are many cores on this thing. They can go to your GPS. Now these are GPU power devices, and now they can go to the neural engine. So it's funny to see, um, where those 11, what did you say? Billion trillion. The zillion 
James: [00:53:21] 11.8 billion transistors. 
Frank: [00:53:24] Yeah. I'm curious what the distribution is, um, across all those cores and things, but just as a technologist, I don't care.
Yeah. It's great. Back in the day, people used to really cool, actually Apple used to do this show a picture of the Silicon wafer. So you can actually see a little bit of the layout of the chip. I wish they would keep doing that when they made these amazing new chips. 
James: [00:53:46] Yeah, that'd be really neat. Uh, I'm excited for it, although I'm not going to get an iPad.
Um, I'm good. I think I'm good. I would think I'm not going to go all in, but I think I'm really excited about the eighth generation feels like a great update for the three 29. Again, like you said, this was a cool event. Good prices on things. Um, and we get major iOS updates on the 16th. So it's happening.
We're getting iOS 14. They mentioned they, they did talk. About iPhone for just 10 seconds and said, you're getting iOS 14 with app groups and other widgets and things. It's happening. Watch  seven is coming out, iPad. OOS 14 is coming out. It's the same as iOS spoiler. 
Frank: [00:54:27] No, no. Yeah. Okay. It's the same, but, um, it does have the cool feature of if you have an Apple pencil, you can finally scribble into any text field, which.
It's nice. It's, it's one of those little things that you realize, gosh, I wish I was able to do this the whole time. So as app developers out there, chances are, yeah, it's going to be just fine. But if you have the opportunity to get an Apple pencil on iOS 14, give it a shot because you know, with scroll views and things like that, you never know how things are going to go, but try to scribble into all your fields that feature.
I think it's worth the update. Everyone I'll update though. Thank goodness. It's Apple. 
James: [00:55:03] Yeah. And that's it? No new, no new iPhones, no Mac iOS updates. 
Frank: [00:55:08] Not 
James: [00:55:08] nothing not happening. I 
Frank: [00:55:10] was sad. Like, yeah, maybe there'll be an event in October at Apple's events. They can schedule them whenever they want. Obviously people show up to them.
So, and even nowadays people don't even have to fly there so they can really do it. I don't know though. Uh, It was, it was a pretty minor event. I would say it turns out, but I'm good. Good. I just want to keep calling it like the pandemic event. Like it was pandemic size. It's, it's kind of what we're expecting for a pandemic event.
James: [00:55:39] And you know, you know, you want to space it out a little bit. You don't wanna announce diff to a lot of products. You don't wanna announce everything all at once. And additionally, you know, manufacturing, I don't know what their manufacturing pipeline looks like because there was a slow down what's the delay.
Maybe they need an extra month for. Manufacturing. And that makes sense. They got to pump out so many. I-phones right. And then how many people are going to update to the new iPhone? I got to think about it. Also, Google is supposed to have an event at the end of this month, or at least in a new pixel five or whatever that they're going to do.
And they might have like a se edition of it. So who knows what they're going to do, but I think it was a good event. I think it's a good place to have the podcast. What do you think about that, Frank? Sounds 
Frank: [00:56:17] good to me. Um, I'm curious when the next one will be, but I'm sure we'll do it alive again. This was a new fun experience actually seeing you across the way.
So yeah. Fun little experiment for us. 
James: [00:56:29] Absolutely. Well, that's going to do it for this week's merge conflict. Let us know what you think by going to merge conflict. RFM. Are you going to buy a new Apple watch or you're going to buy a new iPad? Were you disappointed? There was new, no new iPhones who knows.
Everybody will know. When do you think the next event will be? We'll take bets on it and see. Head over there. You can follow us on Twitter. Emmers conflict FM. You can of course follow both of us at James Monsanto and proclaim them. Of course go everywhere. Merge conflict of that FM to find all the goodies and we'll stream live on my personal Twitch.
Cause I love those followers at twitch.tv/james Monson. Magna, you can also find Frank on Twitter at twitch.tv/frank Krueger. We'll have these available as well, but of course you can subscribe to the podcast. And telling your friends about it. We appreciate that. So that's going to do it for this week's pod.
So until next week, I'm James Monson. 
Frank: [00:57:16] I'm Frank here. Thanks for listening 
James: [00:57:18] to pace.