EP050 Navigating Agency Partnerships: Secrets to a Successful Engagement
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[00:00:00] Darin Newbold: And good day and welcome to Commerce Today. My name is Darren and we're excited to have you here. And, uh, no, you do not have to adjust your screens. We did not shave Josh's head. We have a special guest for this episode. Uh, Brad Moss is joining us. Uh, VP of sales here at, uh, Creatuity. We're very excited to have him.

[00:00:24] And we're very excited about our topic today. That is all about navigating. agency partnerships, the secrets to a successful engagement. So with that, Brad, and with that kind of topic, Why is working with an agency crucial in many cases, as well as what are some potential benefits, obviously, but what could be some potential pitfalls as well?

[00:00:49] Brad Moss: So thanks, Darren. Appreciate the intro. Yeah, this is going to be a lot of fun. This topic is because there are some real benefits of working with agencies. They may be well versed in certain. Certain use cases that your specific company is dealing with. They may be well versed in technologies that you don't have the in house skill set to deal with that you need to advance to, to make sure you're going to hit your goals, et cetera.

[00:01:12] So working with an agency can be great. Obviously, as you mentioned, there can be some pitfalls and we can discuss those as well. And we can dive into those deeper as we go further in.

[00:01:21] Darin Newbold: I know, uh, I know kind of as we were prepping for this episode, one of the pitfalls that you had even mentioned to me, and it's a great reminder, is that often, as agencies are out searching, I'm sorry, correction, as merchants are out searching for agencies and system integrators, they often, often see They see these people as kind of the maybe possibly the jack of all trades and the master of none that they can do anything and everything and be, be, be the answer for everyone.

[00:01:50] And is that really true?

[00:01:52] Brad Moss: No, you know, we've seen that a lot. And so let me give you some examples. You're a merchant. You've got some goals that you've been challenged to hit and you know that maybe your tech stack or maybe your current UX, whatever, is just not going to get you there.

[00:02:05] Right? So, you hear all the buzz in the industry about Agency 1, Agency 2, and Agency 3. However, they may not be the right agencies to hit what you need to be successful. So, for example let's say you're a B2B merchant. You've got this massive catalog. Well, you've heard of a couple of agencies that are really good.

[00:02:28] But they might not be well versed in that, you know, how do you take a massive catalog and integrate a PIM with it so that you can have, variations, skews on the fly, all sorts of things that you might deal with. So you need an agency that's really well versed and keyed in on that as opposed to just somebody that you've heard about because they do, you know, really pretty work that maybe is geared more toward a D2C

[00:02:52] Darin Newbold: Well, let me pause you there real quick. Cause you threw in a quick acronym PIM. So most everybody knows, but everybody also knows that listens to this, that I usually don't know any of these things. So help me out here. What's a PIM?

[00:03:04] Brad Moss: Product Information management system.

[00:03:06] Darin Newbold: Gotcha. So that's going to be key with this B2B and having an efficient catalog management.

[00:03:12] That's going to be so important and to simplify their searching, their ordering, reordering process, and one of the biggest things is integrating with an ERP.

[00:03:22] Brad Moss: ERP. That's correct. And I mean, what, what some folks may not understand is that using maybe a technology like a PIM to ensure that the UX on the front end works well, that search works well, that faceted search works well, that all these things work well, you need to actually What is the standard way to handle your product catalog in a way that may not be standard?

[00:03:43] You may need to do some things to it that enable you to get the goal you ultimately want, which is a better front end experience. So it might be hidden. You might need to peel back that onion a bit to see, you know, what can we do on the back end to make sure that we can achieve the goals that we want on the front end that will help us move forward.

[00:03:59] You know, increased revenue, whatever the case may be. So that's why just, you know, just looking for all the pretty pictures on the front end might not be it. There might be technology on the back end that's driving all of that. You need an agency that's well versed in being able to provide those solutions.

[00:04:12] Darin Newbold: Well in another, another very interesting area, and I know it was, it was huge for us during, uh, during the unfortunate time with Covid and all of that, and that was around the, basically having a seamless in-store pickup and, and direct shipping, kind of that bopus buy online, pick up in store type of situation.

[00:04:32] What can you tell me about that?

[00:04:34] Brad Moss: Well, same thing. You need to find an agency that's really well versed in doing that and that's a, that's a kind of Pandora's box. I mean, it sounds simple, like I'll order something online and I'll pick it up in the store. There is a lot of operational readiness.

[00:04:50] There's a lot of organizational readiness that needs to be prepped. But there's also a lot of systems work and the way you architect your system. to be able to allow your in store systems to be able to support that kind of model. Same thing goes with buy online, ship from store, right? A lot of that was happening as well because you you get broader inventory, you get closer to your end customer, etc.,

[00:05:11] So you want to find an agency that's well versed in those models and dealing with the technologies required to deliver a successful solution. With that, as opposed to, you know, just the names you've heard all the time.

[00:05:24] Darin Newbold: Exactly. Well, and I think you started to mention it, but there was one more that, that I know, and, and as we're sharing these, these are, these are ones that for us here at Creatuity that we've really, we've really found our niches.

[00:05:37] It doesn't mean there's not other things that we can do. We can, and we're, we tend to be as flexible as possible, but these are the areas that are great, great fits. And that third one, I think you started to mention a little bit about kind of having that high volume. Direct to consumer type of experience and working with brands that are that type of, uh, merchant.

[00:05:57] What, uh, what are some things that are important there?

[00:06:00] Brad Moss: So, you know, depending on the merchant. So we've got some clients personally that, that do a lot of television advertising. And if you're going to do, you know, TV spots or if you're going to do, you know, let's say you've got a spot on the Today Show and all of a sudden your business is going to spike, it's going to go through the roof.

[00:06:17] You've got to work with an agency that understands How to kind of rent the base, buy the spike, how you can support these massive increases from an architecture perspective, from a systems perspective holistically so that you don't have a bad customer experience because people are going to go on and they really want to buy your product and your site hasn't held up to it.

[00:06:38] So those are some of the things that we as a company excel in.

[00:06:40] Darin Newbold: excel. Absolutely. That's awesome. Well, let's, let's switch gears just a little bit and I'm going to put you in a place of Instead of being the salesperson per se, you're now going to be sharing, hey, if you could hand a merchant these questions or these areas to focus on or to talk or to be prepared for, it will make that engagement with an agency that much more smooth and seamless in its process.

[00:07:09] So there are some key areas that need to be considered before, before as well as during the engagement. With that agency and beyond the kind of the, the basics that I would say are kind of that top of the line, defining obviously your goals and objectives, you obviously want to have a budget considerations and financial planning and those kinds of things.

[00:07:34] Those are really kind of the basics. But going beyond that, I know, I know you kind of had helped put together kind of a run through of some questions and some areas that they ought to know about. So, Help me share a little bit of that. You know, I know starting, starting out with kind of understanding where they're at currently, their current state, as well as versus their desired state.

[00:07:58] Tell me a little bit more about that.

[00:07:59] Brad Moss: Yeah. So, you know, like I say, you kind of hit on it there, but the first thing you need to do is

[00:08:03] Darin Newbold: what

[00:08:04] Brad Moss: do we want to do? Like what are our goals? Are they, are they purely revenue goals? Are they expanding market goals? Are they shifting business model goals? Like what are they?

[00:08:14] Right? And then, on top of that, what are the barriers? Do you have, like, what's your current tech stack? Is your tech stack holding you back? Some folks have technology that just won't allow them to get to that next level. Are those next two or three levels, right? So be prepared to talk about in depth. This is our tech stack.

[00:08:35] This is what works. And don't be afraid to call your own baby ugly. If something doesn't work, then fess up. It doesn't work. And here's what we want it to do. But here's why it won't get there. And that agency should be able to help you understand this is the technology that will help you get there. And this is our experience in that technology.

[00:08:54] If they don't really understand it and say, we'll figure out a way, That's when it's time to start talking to two or three other agencies to see if they've got experience in that, in that area, right? You don't really want a jack of all trades and a master of none. You want a clearly defined set of business objectives, what your goals are, what your barriers are, and then find an agency that can help you bridge that gap.

[00:09:14] Darin Newbold: Awesome. So now I'm gonna bring up that very naughty, naughty word. It's that B word. What's your budget? Agencies, or I should say merchants all the time. This is a, this is a challenge. It's a challenge for agencies.

[00:09:27] We always want to know it. Nobody wants to tell it, and it, depending on what school of thought you come from, he who, he who speaks the budget first loses or whatever, and I don't, I don't subscribe to that. I think it's, hey, let's have a real conversation, and it's a lot better, and, and you tell me your experience, but would you rather know somebody, you know, has a champagne vision, but beer budget per se?

[00:09:53] I guess what's your thoughts on having that budget conversation?

[00:09:57] Brad Moss: So yeah, there is, you know, there is the old adage, he who speaks the number first loses. I'm not sure I agree with that. Personally, I want a relationship that's built on trust, and I should be able to trust you. And if you tell me I wear a 44 Slim, I know you're not, you're not telling me the truth, because there's no such thing, right?

[00:10:20] Like, either you 

[00:10:21] Darin Newbold: You're calling me fat. Is that. what now? Now, that's what's

[00:10:23] going on. I see that.

[00:10:25] Brad Moss: No, so the bottom line is, just be open and honest, because it's going to save you a ton of time, and a ton of headache, and probably a ton of disappointment down the road. If your budget is X, say our budget is X, and then you'll figure out the best way to break that down into how much of that is agency, how much of that is software, how much of that is whatever else needs to be done.

[00:10:46] And you'll save yourself a lot of time. And, and probably save yourself face if you are getting much further down the road than you say we don't have, you know, the budget that we thought we had, etc. Just be open. Be honest about it because any agency of its worth will then be able to say, Okay, based on that, here's what we'll be able to do for you.

[00:11:05] And then you can make the business decision. We need to increase budget. Or we need to maybe change our, our goals and objectives because we just don't have the budget to get to where we need to, where we need to be with the technology that we want, with the agency costs that are going to be involved, et cetera.

[00:11:20] Darin Newbold: Well, and the other, the other piece that I always like to look at is, it can also be phased. And then you can take a Even a smaller budget, but let's phase it and build it out so that then maybe there's some, we want the proof of concept and we wanted the proof of revenues so that there's ROI on it. So all great things.

[00:11:42] I'm going to, I'm going to move a little bit on our, uh, on our outline here, but Yeah. Kind of the next one that's almost a somewhat of a naughty word as well It's the T word and that's the timeline because they go hand in hand budget and timeline I want it yesterday and I want it to cost zero.

[00:11:59] So That's not gonna happen. So how do how do we work on building out those or how can a merchant think about some realistic goals and some and What they see as the next steps. Now some of that's gonna be questions for us, for, uh, for the agency, how quickly they can move. But you know, there's the whole story.

[00:12:24] You know, just because you have nine women together doesn't give you, give you a, a baby in a month. That just doesn't work. So

[00:12:33] Brad Moss: yeah, you took my line, you can't put nine women in a room and have a baby in a month. So, the way I look at this, and I think the way that merchants should look at this, is I always say it's a three legged stool. There's quality, there's price, and there's time.

[00:12:46] You can have two of those in your favor, but you can never have all three. You can have high quality and a low price, but it's going to take you a long time. You can have it done really fast for really cheap, but it's not going to be good quality. So, look at it from those three perspectives. You can always have two of those, but you can't have all three of those.

[00:13:05] And just be honest about your timelines, about your budget, and about your expectations, and your idea of a phased approach. I really like because not only does it give you the opportunity to get proof of concept and proof of revenue, it also gives you the opportunity to understand. If this relationship is going to go far or if it's just going to go fast and fizzle out.

[00:13:28] And so, you know, I think it's a really great opportunity to see how companies are going to work. Now, granted, there's a lot of organizational readiness you have to do and you have to figure out how you're going to play together, etc. And if you find out that's not going to work for the long term, you've got to unwind some of that.

[00:13:43] But it's easier to do after a short period of time if the agency hasn't proved itself than after a very, very long period of time if you sign up for, you know, a five year engagement, four year engagement.

[00:13:51] Darin Newbold: Yeah. And you were getting, you were getting kind of the, to the other pieces that I wanted to kind of hit before we close this out of the operational readiness as well as kind of the working model, the, the, how you gonna organize the team and then ultimately next steps.

[00:14:07] Brad Moss: Yeah, I mean, always have clear next steps. A lot of, how many times have you been in a meeting, you know, there's an agency, there's a potential client, and you talk about all this stuff and you say, okay, we'll get back together. Well then, next thing you know, six weeks has gone by and nothing's been done and guess what?

[00:14:25] Your timeline didn't move. All you did was take six weeks away from your, your implementation timeline. So now everybody's running around at the end like, uh, you know, chickens with their heads cut off trying to get this done. So have a very crystal clear. Set of next steps and do it with a sense of urgency, right?

[00:14:43] It doesn't mean you have to kill yourself trying to get there, but everybody should understand that every day that goes by is a day that comes off what could be used to develop an amazing solution.

[00:14:53] Darin Newbold: Alright, so now I wanna switch it just again a little bit because we've given you the merchant, some real, hopefully some great ideas, some, some questions and some things to be prepared for.

[00:15:05] One of the things that, I think merchants sometimes maybe don't have and you, you said it so succinctly right at the beginning and it's so important, trust and being able to trust that agency because how do you work with a situation when, when we have to say no, what you want to do or what you're looking at either isn't, isn't possible or it isn't possible with the budget or the timeline that they have.

[00:15:31] Yeah. Or, we need to rethink it in a way that could be a better solution. I

[00:15:36] Brad Moss: mean, think of your relationship with an agency like, like a friend, right? Don't you appreciate friends that tell you when you're about to screw something up? Like I do. And I would want my professional relationships to go the exact same way.

[00:15:52] So that's why I said it's so, it's so important. Just be open up front. This is how much money we have. This is how much time we have. This is where it hurts. You know, it's like going to the doctor and you never want to tell the doctor exactly where it hurts. Well, this is where it hurts, right? And so can you help me or not?

[00:16:08] And as an agency, sure, there are some out there that are unscrupulous that will say we're a jack of all trades. And, you know, if the man wants a green coat, turn on the green light. They'll do whatever it takes to get the deal. Stay away from those folks. As you said the other day trust but verify.

[00:16:23] Like, get examples, talk to their clients, existing and prior, figure out what worked, why did clients that left leave you know, maybe it was just, it was time for a change, maybe it was time in changing leadership, whatever, but find out from real folks because, you know, there's a lot of folks out there that'll tell you anything to get the deal done, but that's not, that's a relationship that's meant to go fast, not far.

[00:16:45] You want a relationship that's meant to go far, not fast, and that's going to be built on a foundation of trust.

[00:16:51] Darin Newbold: Wow, you could not have probably summarized our conversation for this episode any better. The last thing I want to just kind of as a reminder, some three areas that we find are great fits. For, uh, for us and what we do is really empowering that B2B, uh, uh, merchant with an efficient catalog management, the BOPUS or the seamless in store pickup and direct, shipping, as well as then being able to amplify and handle that high volume direct to consumer brand.

[00:17:23] So those are kind of the three things. You summarize, hey, let's trust, trust but verify. Let's have an open, honest. conversation and working with, uh, with an agency and working with you, working with your agency and how you do that. So, any last thoughts before we close this out, Brad?

[00:17:43] Brad Moss: think we covered a lot, you know, get in touch if you want to talk about any of this, but it's been fun and, you know, just make sure your relationships, your professional relationships are as strong as your personal relationships, then you'll have success.

[00:17:55] Darin Newbold: Outstanding. And with that, we would definitely, definitely encourage you to reach out Ask us any questions and give us your thoughts on the things that we provided. Uh, we'll have, we'll have the questions and the things that we talked about here in our show notes and we'll be happy to, uh, we'd love to hear, Hey, is there anything that we missed?

[00:18:12] this is not the most comprehensive or the full comprehensive list of every possible thing you could ask or go with. So with that, as always, we appreciate you being with us and, uh, enjoy another Commerce Today. Thank you.

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