Joshua Warren  0:06  
He kind of discovered he had someone on his team that was fairly quiet and withdrawn. That was a very, very skilled developer, that previous managers hadn't really tried to draw out the show. And as this new director started talking, when I'm working with him realize that this guy was the just the fount of institutional knowledge that he had been there the longest. And while he didn't ever really speak up, when you asked him, he remembered every detail of every decision that have been made, why this works that way, who to talk to about this, and that was a resource that the previous manager had just not even realized he had.

Darin Newbold  0:47  
Well, welcome, everyone. We are excited to have you here for Commerce Today. My name is Darren Newbold and as always my sidekick, Josh, here to talk to you about what's happening in the commerce world today and what you need to know about and there are some important things we have today. Right, Josh? Yes, a fun topic today for sure. I think so. And one of the things that we're excited about on this one is, is it's, it's about something that's near and dear to both of our hearts, and that is basic leadership, but specifically around ecommerce leadership, and a new directors guide. That's really the focus of what we're talking about is that new directors guide. So with that, let me start this out for you, Josh, that we can talk about is, being a leader is all about kind of self assessment and self awareness. So one of those is understanding your leadership style and approach. How do you look at that? And how would someone kind of get better or learn more about themselves?

Joshua Warren  1:45  
Yeah, yeah. And I'm thinking even about that, in my career, I've met so many different ecommerce directors at different levels of skill and experience, including some that kind of, they were an amazing individual contributor, their company took note, and all of a sudden they find themselves promoted into an E commerce director role, and don't really know much about leadership. And that is where you're getting to know themselves. And maybe even some skills and strengths that they have, that they don't realize they have can be really useful. And that's where there's an assessment called strengths finder that we've used for many years, and I've seen in different programs and courses and things that can help you understand. It's basically 34 different strengths, and can help you understand where you rank on all 34. And what your top five strengths are your bottom five strengths, things like that. Yeah, it's

Darin Newbold  2:33  
a book that was put out by Gallup, and they administer the test. And one of the neat things that I really liked about it, and in the book they talk about is, if you think about going back to your childhood, and going through school, often through school you worked on, you worked on things that you weren't necessarily good at, because it was always hey, you need to improve in this get better at reading and writing and arithmetic and those things. But sometimes you weren't necessarily the best are really good or really adept at those. And what StrengthsFinder does, is help you define what that top really top five areas, top five strengths that you have. And the book recommends that what will happen is, is if you spend a little bit of time working on those top five things, the results from that will far exceed, if you were to spend, say time on something lower down your list or even your bottom five strengths. So it really can have a significant impact. And it can give you significant direction. And it's a great tool for awareness.

Joshua Warren  3:37  
Yeah, and I was pulling up my strengths finder results. So we can give a a little bit of a specific example. So for instance, my my third strength is input, which basically means going out and gathering information, knowledge input, and then kind of synthesizing it and applying it. One of my bottom ones is, this is a fun one harmony. That's actually my absolute, you have no harmony.

Darin Newbold  4:01  
Josh will not be singing for us at anytime. And he's not going to carry a tune.

Joshua Warren  4:07  
So in harmony, the way they define it, here's all about relationship building looking for consensus seeking areas of agreement. So I have actually done a lot of work trying to bring that strength up. But it's when I've really focused on my strength of input that I have had the biggest impact and felt the most growth. So that's definitely I feel like it's the old 8020 Rule yet again, where maybe that top 20% of your strengths, spend a little bit of time on those 80% of your improvements are going to come from that.

Speaker 2  4:36  
So that first one of the first great steps for becoming as you're becoming a new leader is really having that self awareness and being able to to know your strengths and that's a great place to start. So we have an idea on on our strengths. We've done a little bit of self awareness here. Next up is kind of those goals. We've got to make sure that we have some goals and some targets based Both on ourselves, but also on the company in your team, this new team that you're now leading, tell me about what that looks like Josh? Yeah, and I think the real secret here that a lot of people miss is finding the goals that your your bosses have finding the goals that your organization as one of the, when I think of the most successful ecommerce directors that I've, I've had the honor to kind of watch grow over the years. Very early on, he basically interviewed the leadership team of his company and said, Hey, what are you trying to do?

Joshua Warren  5:34  
And what are you trying to do through E commerce? And how can we help you get there? And so instead of just saying, These are the really interesting projects, or you know, maybe this is the software update, we know, we have to do this year, he worked kind of from a blank page of okay, this is the organization's goals, these are my boss's goals, how do I develop goals for my E commerce team that will drive those things forward.

Darin Newbold  5:55  
And that's such a valuable piece, because there's a flip side to that, that I see where the leadership team can then maybe get an understanding of where there could be gaps that they don't know about that the this ecommerce director now, taking the charge can say, hey, we have a huge gap here, either I don't have the resources, the people or manpower, or I don't have the technology to be able to do what's going to meet your goals. So we've got to clear that gap. So yeah, having that clear communication and, and putting things together like that is so key.

Joshua Warren  6:29  
Yeah, that's where I've even seen fairly hard conversations that I or other agencies or consultants would have to come in and, and facilitate and almost a counseling session of basically saying, Okay, you want to have you know, $500 million in E commerce sales, but you want to budget $100,000 a year in E commerce investment, that's probably not going to work. So kind of just making sure the budget and the goals are right size for each other.

Darin Newbold  6:55  
And that's where a great relationship with a with an integrator that can can help. They're not going to fulfill that and you don't want them to, but they can help and they can provide some, some supporting material so that you can come in armed with the best information possible. Well, as you continue to look at this, as well as especially our goals and expectations. Next up is is where do we take risks, and basically making the best decisions we possibly can.

Joshua Warren  7:26  
Yeah, and that's where I think, again, about a couple of people I've known in my career, were making the right bets kind of on early technologies, or early innovations really paid off. But they always did it in a way that they had a fallback of, you know, hey, this is our big moonshot project we want to complete before the holiday season. But even if we don't get there, we have you know, these two or three other things in in the queue that we know will help us reach some of our goals. So kind of being able to balance that,

Darin Newbold  7:56  
can you I wanted to see, can you be a little more specific, maybe what that might look like? I am putting you on the spot here on this. But what would that look like? So hey, I have a moonshot. Hey, this is a big task and a big poll that we want to do but then having the backups or even a fallback, should that go sideways in some way? Can you be a little more specific on what that might actually look like from from the decision making standpoint and what they might look at? Yeah, so

Joshua Warren  8:22  
the the example I'm thinking of is from many years ago, before omni channel was common, and it was basically this kind of almost mid summer decision. We want to implement, buy online, pick up in store, before the holiday selling season and realize and everybody involved all the way up to the retailers leadership team was like, This is crazy, there's a good chance that it doesn't work out. But we're gonna try. But at the same time, there were some internal and external efforts around some other projects that would also drive value for the holiday selling season. So thinking about things like site improvements, conversion rate, optimization, work, things like that, so that there was at least going to be an incremental increase in revenue from those other projects, even if the buy online pick up in store project didn't go live for the holidays.

Darin Newbold  9:09  
Gotcha. Yeah, that helps a lot as as you're looking at those tough decisions, but also taking into account the risks and how to mitigate those risks throughout. All right, we've been talking about kind of this self awareness side of leadership and getting established and looking really kind of more, the navel gazing as it's commonly referred. So now looking, kind of reversing that and looking out, you now have a team and you're taking on a team of maybe these are people that you only moments ago, were working side by side, and now you're expected to be their leader. And suddenly, all sorts of emotions can fall in there, you can suddenly feel like I'm supposed to have all the answers instantaneously, which is not at all correct. And if you do, you're in the wrong job anyway. So I guess talk me through your thoughts on, hey, what are those first days could look like? And how do you? How do you turn what what can be challenging into into a real great opportunity.

Joshua Warren  10:10  
So as I mentioned earlier, my 34th out of 34 strengths is about relationship building. So I would actually defer this one to you, and see what you think.

Darin Newbold  10:20  
All right, this is what we call ping pong, and it just went back across. So for me, as I look at that is one of my strengths. And I didn't pull it up. But one of my strengths, I believe it's called a ranger. And that what that strength really is, is it's not arranging puzzle pieces or anything, but it is arranging people pieces. And what I tend to do, or what I have is, is I can innately kind of see people look at their strengths, and then feel like oh, hey, this is the role or this is the job, and this is the place for you to be. And being able to do that is helpful, that may or may not be your strength. And if it's not, that's fine. But taking what you already know about the team is first and foremost. Now, if you're new to this team, let's say hey, you were hired outside and are walking into this, take the time to get to know each and every one of them. And do that in a way, that's not just a tell me about your job. Tell me what you've been doing over the past few days, or weeks or months. Tell me about yourself and go a little bit deeper. Because one of the biggest things that I have found, Josh has found, and we have found together, that when you have a team, if there is no trust, that is the foundation, and if there's no trust, it's going to be dysfunctional. And there's a whole book on dysfunctional teams that we'd definitely be happy to recommend to you. And anything else?

Joshua Warren  11:45  
No, that's such a good point, you're reminded me of, again, kind of a situation from someone I knew that got promoted into a director role. And he by getting to know his team, kind of discovered he had someone on his team that was fairly quiet withdrawn, that was a very, very skilled developer that previous managers hadn't really tried to draw out of the shell. And as this new director started talking with them, working with them realize that this guy was the just the fount of institutional knowledge that he had been there the longest. And while he didn't ever really speak up, when you asked him, he remembered every detail of every decision that had been made, why this worked that way, who to talk to about this. And that was something that was a resource that the previous manager had just not even realized he had. And so by getting to know that team member, he was able to figure out, hey, not only can I go to him with kind of these hard technical challenges, I can go to him and just say, Hey, why does this work this way? Who made that decision? Who am I going to potentially upset if I change that, that sort of thing?

Darin Newbold  12:47  
Yeah. And then you just keyed off on one other piece is, as you're finding out about your people explore their hobbies and interests, because it is not uncommon to have someone that's in a job that they took the job and they're doing the job, but that may not be their highest and best use. And once you realize that, but you can find out that someone that maybe was managing social media that is okay at and does an okay, job, nothing bad. But you find out that on the weekends and nights, they're out taking pictures and doing photography and videography, and, and they have a huge passion for that. Guys, how can you? How can you repurpose that in a way and, and have someone that then is doing something that they're truly passionate about, and you're gonna see great, great things from just by doing that? Well, as we as we kind of look through and put this together one last area. So we talked to self awareness, we've now talked about kind of leadership, building relationships and knowing your people. So now we actually have to have a job in E commerce. So what do we do about the industry and managing that craziness?

Joshua Warren  13:59  
Yeah, I think that where leadership, as an E commerce in general, but especially as an E commerce director, where that differs from being a director and a lot of other businesses is the pace of change is that the technology we work on is constantly shifting, and it's shifting faster and faster every year. And so you have to be someone that is willing to, to be a little agile, and adaptable and flexible, and just kind of expect those shifts and you have to basically build into your team, kind of that knowledge of hey, the really cool thing we're working on right now a year from now, we may have to throw away start over and do something different. And so what do you have

Darin Newbold  14:39  
a, I've always wanted to ask you this, do you have kind of a rhythm that you look at, either and maybe you think about this because I know you're a huge planner? Hey, build it in. If it's not in the calendar, it doesn't exist and it never happened. So do you have a rhythm of kind of, hey, once a month, once a week, once a quarter doing that? Hey, review the industry. And what's happening in the world. Do you have anything like that? guidelines around that?

Joshua Warren  15:06  
I actually do it on a continual rolling basis now, just because that's how fast the industry moves. I use an app called Read wise reader. I think it's still Oh, yeah, Ada, but I think anybody can sign up for it. Now, among other things, you can use it as an RSS reader, you can subscribe different sites. So I've subscribed to all the sites that talk about e commerce and a bunch of that just talked about technology and society. And really, in my downtime, lots of times, I'm pulling out my phone, I'm trying not to look at social media trying to try not to look at email, I'm going there instead. And just kind of they have a great interface for basically swiping through articles and very quickly kind of glancing and saying, Is this something I want to read more about later or not?

Darin Newbold  15:50  
Well, I know you're actually going through all of the ChatGPT and the AI sites to find all those jet. And then, and then taking all your read wise stuff and having ChatGPT summarize it for you, which is even better. Anyway, another episode another time. That's a great, that's a great idea. But as a, I'm thinking as an E commerce director, maybe a new one, obviously, that's what the premise of our of our talk is, may not have necessarily the the time to do that on an ongoing basis. But I would say putting, putting that knowledge building and industry updates on a at a minimum quarterly basis where you're doing a dive into what's going on. And if possible, making it nearly a monthly type of review. And a lot of times depending on the platform that you're on with whether it's Magento, Adobe commerce type of place, or Salesforce or others, they're going to constantly be barraging. You with with new data, what what I would suggest is, is being willing to open up and take a look at those, at least on a on a monthly basis, or definitely on a quarterly.

Joshua Warren  16:59  
Yeah, and this is where even all almost all the platforms, all the big platforms have some type of conference, and they pretty much all, as long as you'll give them your email address, make that content from the conference available after the fact online. That's where even just skimming through that you can at least see where that platform thinks ecommerce is going. And I do think monthly is a good cadence back when we had print magazines. There were some really good magazines like internet retailer that came out every month. And I always found that a good kind of reminder to stop sit down, read through kind of through what's going on in the industry. So doesn't exist anymore. But you can at least use maybe a monthly cadence. So

Darin Newbold  17:38  
you don't get magazines anymore, Josh really well.

Joshua Warren  17:42  
I actually I think I still get one or two but pretty much all of them have died off. Unfortunately, don't go in the way that the newspaper apparently may be going. But that's a whole other. That's a whole other podcast series.

Darin Newbold  17:52  
Exactly. All right, well, let's, as they say, Let's land this plane and kind of kind of put it all together. So as a new leader in E commerce and having a new team, we want to first and foremost self assessment, you got to know where you're at know what your strengths are. We have a another podcast that we've talked about the Enneagram I would highly recommend that as well. But Strength Finders is a fantastic place to start. And a the cost is simply buying the book and that gets you your top five you can spend a little bit more and get all 34 The next piece was understanding your team and you love that back to me because that's all about the relationship side of it. But building those relationships with your team and understanding that we also want to make sure that we have goals and expectations What's your thoughts kind of summarizing the last piece is Josh

Joshua Warren  18:42  
well actually I was gonna do what you always do to me for once I have an opportunity here I'm gonna use it did not practice this. But I'm just wondering, you know, you you have come in to e commerce from outside and you have really taken the reins and learned a lot. I feel like as a leader in E commerce. What would you say? What sort of advice if if there was an E commerce director sitting down in front of you saying, you know, help me Obi Wan Kenobi? What is your little parting advice that would give them as we wrap up?

Darin Newbold  19:14  
Find another career? Oh, not at all? Not at all. It's awesome. That was totally a joke. Probably my biggest or the biggest thing I would say is is that depending on their level of true what I would call E commerce knowledge, the kind of the bits bots, bods particles, I mean all this stuff around e commerce if they don't have a lot of knowledge on that, get some learn some read some articles start building that up. Beyond that, at the end of the day, e commerce is once you have that then it's a matter of kind of the the standard blocking and tackling of being a leader in any other role. And yes, there's some subtle diff rinses but at the at the at an E commerce directors role and stuff for them understanding enough about e commerce that you know the you're not gonna get bullied by a platform or by an integrator on what you're doing know enough and know how to ask questions and be willing to ask a lot of questions even if they seem like they're dumb. And then learn your team and and build that trust so that then you don't have to have all the answers and it's not your job to have all the answers. It's your job to have the people that can help you find all the answers. That's my, from the cheap seats, very well

Joshua Warren  20:42  
set. All right,

Darin Newbold  20:43  
well, with that we've, we've kind of put a bow on, on what it means to be a new director and in the E commerce world and be in that new e commerce leadership. So with that, we are so happy to have you on board as always. And until next time, we'll see you later for Commerce Today. Take care

Transcribed by https://otter.ai