Joshua Warren  0:06  
In Honduras, only 38% of adults have a bank account. And only 3% of them have a credit card transactions are face to face with cash.

Darin Newbold  0:15  
little tough to send cash through the web. We know that to challenge

Joshua Warren  0:19  
you basically take the E out of E commerce is you have to have not only physical money, but physical money in a different currency.

Darin Newbold  0:33  
All right, well, hey there, Josh, this is Darren, and we are excited to have you here for Commerce Today. And I think we're gonna have a little fun, because we've recently been talking about some travel. And our episode this time is a little bit about that. But kind of in a different way of what does it mean for E commerce when you travel to some very interesting places? And in this case, we would call it an E commerce island. So Josh, helped me out what the heck is an E commerce Island?

Joshua Warren  1:05  
Yeah, so Well, first of all, I feel like when we talk about international ecommerce, cross border e commerce in the US, a lot of us and I think in Europe as well, we think, Hey, this is a solved problem. Like if you want to sell something, you're a US ecommerce store, even a fairly small store and you want to sell to someone in the UK, there are services out there that make that easy. They handle the cross border payments, the the customs, the shipping all that stuff. So I think for a long time, we've thought, hey, this is a solved problem. But what I discovered recently, through a great trip in the Caribbean, is that in the Caribbean, and in Central America, this is not a solved problem. And it actually goes back to us telling you before the show Darren about a guy I met in Roatan Honduras small island off the coast of Honduras, ironically named Tex, not from Texas. I love that. And as he was telling me, we were actually talking about one of those great tropes of oh, what is it like? How do men shop versus how do women shop and all that stuff? And he's like a whole nother episode. Oh, yeah. Now go in there, that's for sure. But he was explaining the first thing that kind of caught my attention. He was talking about how Hey, you know, here in Honduras, you don't return things like All sales are final, which is not common. But then I made some comment about Amazon. And he's like, Oh, you have heard of Amazon? Like, what do you mean, you've heard of Amazon? You use Amazon? Right? Yeah, really? And that's when I realized from talking to him that yeah, Amazon and E commerce in general, doesn't have great penetration into the Caribbean and Central and South America. And especially, I don't know to me it reminded me of the early 2000s in the US when it comes to e commerce which part of that was okay challenges. Not a lot of people using it, but a lot of that was also opportunity.

Darin Newbold  2:52  
So So is it these the Amazon drivers UPS drivers FedEx don't like to hang out in the Caribbean? I can't imagine that there's got to be another reason for this sheltering almost for the for this situation, because, Gosh, what a great place to hang out and be what kind of creates that barrier. Josh? That didn't doesn't seem to make sense to me.

Joshua Warren  3:14  
Yeah, it didn't make sense to me there. I mean, we're talking about this and I'm literally watching not only plane loads of tourists fly into their little island airport, but also cargo planes. I'm like, Alright, so you can get things here. It's, it's more expensive, but it's possible. So what I discovered and this may just be reflect my American upbringing and American approach to life, but that in Honduras, only 38% of adults have a bank account, and only 3% of them have a credit card transactions are face to face with cash.

Darin Newbold  3:46  
Ah, so little tough to send cash through the web, we know that it's a challenge. And if as soon as you take away the electronic option for payment, and and anything like that, it really kind of puts the whole kibosh on on the on the E commerce probability of it even happening.

Joshua Warren  4:05  
Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's really you. You basically take the E out of E commerce is you have to have physical not only physical money, but physical money in a different currency. So you know, you're you want to buy something from someone that sells in the US that sells in dollars, and you have Honduran money that, first of all, is physical and in Honduras, and not in America, but then also is in a different currency.

Darin Newbold  4:30  
Interesting. Now, that's not always the case. Because I know from the notes here that that we were talking about Jamaica is is a bit of the reverse that at least 73% of the adults have a bank account and then 12% of those have a credit card. So it is happening a little bit. But and it's probably and it's definitely not a topic for for Commerce Today to go into the politics of why some of these countries don't, don't have or a should say the general population doesn't have bank accounts and have credit cards of any variety. But I guess as you look at that, is there anything else from a from their financial structures that either prevent? Or do you see an opportunity where there could be a breakthrough? Yeah, I

Joshua Warren  5:15  
think a lot of it really comes down to trust those. There's a lack of trust in the financial institutions. Some of it is just cultural, like Jamaica, yes, they have the bank accounts, but only 12% of them have a credit card. Some of that may be that brands don't want to offer credit cards there. But I think some of that, too, is fear from a culture that doesn't have debt. Are you going to teach your children Hey, go get credit cards, go get debt? And thanks to hear oh, yeah, oh, yeah, they do it rather? Well, I think we've shown the rest of the world or at least the Caribbean, why you don't want to do that. And so I think, yeah, a lot of it is, even in Jamaica, there's that that combination of they don't have a credit card. So if they're gonna pay, they're paying you straight out of their bank account. And they don't know you, they've never met you. And so there's, again, a level of trust there. And it just, it reminds me so much of back in the early days of E commerce, when we would put trust seals and safety seals all over the checkout pages, they know, really, you can trust us, you know, give us your credit card number or your debit card number, make a payment to us, because we are trustworthy. That's missing. And I think some of it is a cultural barrier of the ways that we try to communicate on a website that, hey, this is a safe, secure website for you to purchase from. They're not the same sort of trust signals that people in the Caribbean or in Central or South America might be looking for.

Darin Newbold  6:43  
So do you think then could it be a culture opportunity? I would say that if the right bank, and maybe we should start a bank, Josh, I got a nickel. Maybe you got a nickel? Together, we're off to the races. Okay. Is it a culture issue that maybe we there's some study into the culture to help understand what would cause them? Or what would what would be that trigger that signal that they could trust?

Joshua Warren  7:06  
I definitely think there's that opportunity. And I think right now, no one is really pursuing that because while the Caribbean's 44 million people, it's a decent sized market. It's fragmented. It's different languages, different countries, different regulations, even different cultures. Something I learned about Rodon is that they actually speak English, but were acquired by Honduras about 100 years ago. So the official language switch from English to Spanish. However, they still prefer English, and most of them still use English. Well compare that to, you know, go a few 100 miles north into Cancun and Cozumel. And obviously, it's all Spanish. There's even some Dutch in the Caribbean. So a lot of different languages, a lot of fragmentation. And really, there's also the flip side of this, as I was thinking about it, there's so so much artwork, so much creativity, so many interesting products being created in the Caribbean, that aren't available are getting out. Yeah, they're not getting out. And maybe one in 100 do maybe like they partner with someone or there's actually a leather brand that makes different leather iPad, iPhone accessories that I like to brand buy from that makes a big deal about how their leather workers are in South America. They're providing good jobs, that sort of thing. But that's a very one off type of approach versus finding a way that all of these different artisans and creators and entrepreneurs could access the US e commerce market. Is it?

Darin Newbold  8:40  
So is it and maybe even some warehousing and having the logistics behind it because you you said and I agree there's there's cargo going in and out of there. So it's not necessarily the the logistics, aren't there or the systems aren't there, but maybe there's some, something's added something that's needed to bridge the gap.

Joshua Warren  9:01  
Yeah, you know, there's there's been freight forwarders forever, that operate basically both ways. So they'll handle that for you. It adds some costs and some expense. But I think I really think even going both ways, it really comes down to culture and trust. And I think that there's not enough voices talking about this and there's not enough voices to educate, you know, local voices basically saying, Hey, this is an opportunity, you should pursue it because think about it if you if you don't have access to e commerce, you don't use E commerce, you might not realize the massive opportunity of selling your products into the US. Well, one thing I was gonna hit on, you talked a little bit about the different cultures and lots of languages but

Darin Newbold  9:46  
I guess from a GDP standpoint, at least a little bit. They're not necessarily the most the wealthiest countries or the wealthiest areas. So that may be lessening or reducing the interest in going down there from the banks and stuff, but we're kind of at a place and kind of what you're saying is is kind of sounds like we need a, you know, the proverbial Call to Action come one come all. Let's, let's solve this what? What's your thoughts there?

Joshua Warren  10:13  
Yeah, I think that I don't want to start a bank. Really. And I have been told that, you know, I already have enough with my hands full with my current company. So I don't even want to start into the business right now. But I think for the E commerce community, and this might be a group, this might be one person, this might be someone that wants to start a new business. But I think there's a business opportunity here where you know, rallying a group of people around solving this challenge, and, you know, going in and figuring out, okay, how do we bridge these gaps? How do we bridge these cultural divides basically, and increase ecommerce adoption? Really both ways. And I think we've touched on a few things like some of it might be a payment aspects, or it might be shipping logistics, a lot of it's going to be education. So it's, it almost feels like something that if Amazon was a wonderful, benevolent nonprofit that wanted to go out and do that, they have everything they need to do it. However, that's when you look at the GDP, the financials, they're not going to do it. So

Darin Newbold  11:16  
well. I wonder, though, this also reminds me of a lot of the early days, I mean, this ages me a little bit, even just going back to different countries, just import Import Export, and the good old fashioned of just getting goods across the borders. And that whether, you know, no ecommerce necessarily involved, or what little I mean, it may have been a phone call, or it may be EDI transactions and stuff to get things across. So my thought is, is that it's almost that type of person, or persons and groups that would, would really break that barrier and kind of take and say, Hey, let's let's create this import export. But let's do it via e commerce. And let's break through whatever those barriers are, that's figured out, but it's also bigger, because there's going to be some political barriers. And that's, that's one of those challenges that suddenly, but But I gotta say, these days, there's so many things that even even when there's political barrier, there seems there often seems to be a way in a solution that can even bridge that. And it doesn't mean changing the politics necessarily. I'm talking about just a, almost that third party solution that says, hey, we'll be the arbiter of this ecommerce action will be that trusted source because we're we're not even there. We're not even part of the, the that government and we'll be that trusted, middle middle person in the way.

Joshua Warren  12:44  
You know, as you're saying that what we need, in my opinion, is Kiva, the micro loan platform, if someone would take that and combine it with a marketplace? Yeah, that's basically what we're describing. And I think there's definitely people out there that have the resources and intelligence to put something like that together.

Darin Newbold  13:05  
Come on, Josh, we can do it. I know.

Joshua Warren  13:09  
After a few years, maybe, but But yeah, I think this is a big opportunity. And I think it could be so impact, just like Kiva has changed so many lives, those micro loans like these are, this isn't a culture where people are looking for a handout. This is a culture where people are building and creating really cool products that aren't making it outside of their small island. And I think again, with the right resources with something like that, where I don't even know if you would need the micro loan micro lending part of Kiva, it's more just a coaching them helping them understand and then providing a ecommerce marketplace for them.

Darin Newbold  13:46  
Well, the other thing, think about it with that tourist situation, how in you've traveled much more than I have, but I know how awesome it is when I travel somewhere, even just in the United States, and I go to this location and say, Well, I love your product. And I buy a little bit there, but I don't want to fly back with you know, especially if it's something breakable or anything like that. Hey, can I order it online? Yeah, absolutely. And then you can go to it. Think about the opportunity with all of these tourists that suddenly you're visiting the stand you're visiting this small shop and you see something you like and then you see their QR code or or just the website and says hey, you can purchase this others it may take a little bit to get there. It's not going to be you know, it's not, not same day delivery same day overnight delivery with the with the drone coming over your over your house, but But it couldn't be possible. I think that's really cool.

Joshua Warren  14:39  
Yeah, yeah. I mean, there was some amazing hot sauce brewed and bottled there on the island that I bought five bottles of because I realized I looked on Amazon electronically. I'm never gonna be able to buy this again, unless I want to, you know, fly down here and just a quick shopping trip, which might be expensive. There's no way to buy it. Send. It's an amazing product. It was a very unique hot sauce that had a lot of hot sauce and a lot of countries. All right.

Darin Newbold  15:05  
slight change. You hear you said brewed hot sauce. I didn't know hot sauce was some types of it are. All right. All right. Well, another episode we are seeing today. Exactly well, this is Commerce Today and we want to stay in today and we really want to emphasize the opportunity that these ecommerce islands that they are can and could be and could be an amazing opportunity for the right set of innovation and ideas and and definitely a good old fashioned pull up the bootstraps and go after it kind of mentality but I think there's a great opportunity. last thoughts Josh? No, I'm

Joshua Warren  15:44  
I'm excited to see what someone other than me can do with this idea.

Darin Newbold  15:49  
And the Bank of Josh and Darren will be forthcoming I'm sure yeah,

Joshua Warren  15:54  
there we are launching what ecommerce coin the next blockchain currency. Yeah,

Darin Newbold  15:58  
who cares about Bitcoin? We'll have the commerce coin. All right. Well, ladies and gentlemen, we are so excited as always have you a part of Commerce Today and we're excited to share this very interesting and unique opportunity to e commerce Islands and the opportunity that they present. So with that, we appreciate you definitely send us a note like the podcast and the information and we'll see you next time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai