[00:00:00] Clip: Close your eyes. What do you hear? I hear the water. I hear the birds. Do you hear your own heartbeat? No. Do you hear the grasshopper, which is at your feet? I sought only to warn you of what might happen, realizing you were a stranger to this town. [00:00:38] Matthew: Hello and welcome to the Inter Millennium Media Project in the IMMP podcast. My name is Matthew Porter. [00:00:46] Ian: I am Ian Porter. [00:00:50] Matthew: Uh, I am his dad. He's my son. I, I avoiding saying I'm the master. He is the disciple. [00:00:57] Ian: Yeah. [00:01:00] Matthew: And I make him watch television sometimes. And this is an example of that. [00:01:06] Ian: An example. I'm delighted because if you've joined us for our previous episode, you know what this is because there was a reference to it. And, uh, the, to say that a spark lit up in your eyes when you saw the potential here is putting it mildly. [00:01:24] Matthew: That's right. Our prior episode, uh, a couple of weeks ago was actually a selection from, uh, your lovely bride, Jen [00:01:34] Ian: Yeah. [00:01:34] Matthew: Of Lizzie McGuire of all things. [00:01:37] Ian: Yes. [00:01:38] Matthew: And today's episode is a, has a connection to that, that Lizzie McGuire is the reason we are doing this TV series right now because of the casting overlap [00:01:54] Ian: because it had David Carine show up. To teach Kung fu. [00:02:03] Matthew: Yes, we are talking about the, the Kung fu tv series from the early seventies. Oh. And, and in addition to having the guest spot by David Carradine as the Kung Fu teacher in Lizzie McGuire, one of the principal actors in Lizzie McGuire is his brother. [00:02:22] Ian: Yes. [00:02:22] Matthew: Who had a, a guest spot on a Kung fu episode. [00:02:28] Ian: Oh, cool. [00:02:29] Matthew: Did you recognize the actor playing Sonny Jim in the episode Dark Angel? [00:02:38] Ian: That was him, wasn't [00:02:40] Matthew: it? That was Lizzie McGuire's dad. [00:02:43] Ian: Oh goodness. [00:02:44] Matthew: So once I saw that and the, the episode of Lizzie McGuire in a Lizzie McGuire kind of style, it was a fun homage to kung fu, an [00:02:56] Ian: absolute love letter in its way. [00:02:57] Matthew: It was. And to David Cainee's character of Kwai Chang Caine. [00:03:01] Ian: Yes. [00:03:02] Matthew: so I figured, okay, this is the time for us to watch this TV series. [00:03:06] Ian: Absolutely. And I admit, I had never heard of this show until now. [00:03:13] Matthew: You had never heard of it? [00:03:15] Ian: I'd never heard of it. [00:03:17] Matthew: Wow. I'm a little surprised, mainly that I had the restraint not to at least talk to you about this, let alone show it to you. [00:03:24] Ian: Yeah. And that's, it's, thank you. And I am why I'm bewildered by that too, because my goodness. Kung fu is so influential in its pieces, like calling, the apprentice grasshopper and everything like that. It's like, oh, here's an origin point. And it's amazing to find it in such a fine piece of westerns because that's what this is. Kung fu is a western. [00:03:52] Matthew: Absolutely. [00:03:53] Ian: And it's happy to be so, and it's open about such, but you see the name and you assume it's gonna be a kung fu action film. And it's, it is, but it's very open and very honest with the fact that the difference between a Western and a martial arts film is just location. [00:04:12] Matthew: Yes. And the, the time periods work out well and it's, I mean mm-hmm. A lot of Chinese influence on the American West. [00:04:20] Ian: Yeah. There's so many bits of things I, I like that I see in here somewhere and I'm like, oh goodness. That's, this is a point where all of those things converged and influenced each other's before heading off in their own direction and returning once again at various other points along the, the media landscape. But this is a crossroads [00:04:46] Matthew: and the, the formula, I mean the, the soft spoken man who mostly keeps to himself and who goes from place to place and gets involved in whatever troubles are happening there and winds up helping the good people against the bad people. Yeah. You paint him green. And we have talked about this series before. It's the incredible Hulk. [00:05:08] Ian: It is. Oh, you're right. [00:05:10] Matthew: And, and many, many other TV series besides. [00:05:13] Ian: It absolutely is. Cain wanders into town, finds problem, sometimes problems finds him, helps somebody in a way that also includes flashbacks to a lesson he learned at the Shaolin Temple. Cain could have a nice peaceful life here, living amongst the people who he's helped. Unfortunately, the bounty on his head means somebody shows up to, to try to fight him. That person inevitably fails, Cain wanders back into the desert. But yeah, it's absolutely, it's the, it's that, it's the wandering, it's the wandering man storyline. That is, that is Hulk. That is this, that is numerous Other stories use this same framework, but that's because it's an excellent framework for introspection. [00:06:07] Matthew: Mm-hmm. [00:06:07] Ian: Because each story lets it be about a piece of humanity of our main character. It's also wonderfully, self-contained If you missed an episode of Kung fu, it's probably not going to have a grand impact on the narrative that is going to make next week. Hard to watch. [00:06:28] Matthew: Yeah. Not a huge amount of continuity episode to episode. This is the pre-VCR days. So people would watch the TV show when it came up, if they could, and yeah, it's a, terrific formula for episodic television and. You don't have to have a whole lot of character development, although it's you, you, if there is, it's a nice little Easter egg for people who are seeing more than one episode. [00:06:53] Ian: Yeah. Yeah. I almost feel like they could have had a rerun of kung fu happen and there's a small percentage of the audience, they'd be like, ah, dang it. He's back in this town. And those guys didn't learn their lesson. They're up to their old tricks. Yeah. Give them hell Caine. Wait a minute. [00:07:10] Matthew: And we're, we're getting a little bit ahead of ourselves, I think, out of enthusiasm. So just to, to back up to, in case anybody listening has not seen or heard of this TV series, David Carradine plays Caine. His full name is Kwai Chang Caine. He is a Chinese American man. His father was American, his mother was born in China, and Caine was orphaned in China. When his parents had passed and his grandparents had passed and he became a student at a Shaolin Temple. [00:07:45] Ian: Yeah. He, he became a student by kind of camping out in front of the temple until he's let in. There's that, test of dedication by being patient enough to be invited. [00:07:56] Matthew: Yes. I like that whole initiation and selection process. 'cause there's a whole bunch of boys waiting at the steps of the Shaolin temple hoping to be allowed in. And one of the masters comes out and through sometimes not very well understood, decision making process selects some of the boys to come in, tell some of them to go home. Tells Caine at one point you've waited a week. Wait a little bit longer, please. [00:08:26] Ian: Yeah. [00:08:27] Matthew: And then there are other, they're, they're allowed in and they, manners are examined. And what kind of people, what kind of, of. Thoughtfulness and discipline do they have, and that's also assessed as to whether they can progress further and really be admitted into the temple. and all of this is through great flashbacks with a very good young actor playing the young Kwai Chang Caine [00:08:48] Ian: Who I will say looks so much like David Carradine, they did a great job finding the right actor pair to play two points in time. If you told me that they knew what they were doing and they'd had young Carradine play this, play a, a long recording. Uh, you know, two weeks of segments and we're just using footage that they'd done all the way back. Then once he got old enough, I'd be like, yeah, the jaw's right. [00:09:21] Matthew: And he does a good job of playing this young man, being, very thoughtful, very courteous, yet still seeming real. It's not, oh, this is a precious little child actor who's been coached mm-hmm. To be a perfect little kid. No, he's a boy who was raised well and yet is still nervous, is still curious, et cetera. [00:09:44] Ian: And they do an interesting thing early on where in the, in the Shaolin temple, he is accepted and, and taught, but there's always this, partially it's main character, but there's a little bit of lighting, a little bit of staging and such, where he's always not quite fitting in. [00:10:03] Matthew: And there is a sense just based upon what we get to see, that he is a preferred pupil, for some of the masters there teaching, but also that he's considered unusual. He's the first student they've ever admitted who was not, of full Chinese heritage. But there's a first time for everything as, Master Khan says. [00:10:25] Ian: And there's it's little things that I can't tell how much are like camera trickery and how much are intentional symbolism, but it's like you've got this array of students lined up three by five. He's in the front corner and he's just a hair off. He's like a little step to the side out of the grid. Everyone else is perfectly aligned. He's just a little, so even those bits, you learn a little bit about the character of, Kwai Chang Caine by his physicality. Both actors are doing an excellent job at that and for a character with so, so little dialogue. His movement is text. [00:11:13] Matthew: Yes. So we get these flashbacks, going back and forth between the young Caine, learning at the Caine when he's older, completing his training at the Shaolin Temple, and by that time he's played by David Carradine. And then there is the main time period in story, uh, arc, which is Caine in America, the American West, essentially wandering the desert from town to town. [00:11:42] Ian: Being a little too, a little too much of one of these Americans for the Chinese, people who are working the railroad locations and a little bit too Chinese for the rest of the folk in town every time. [00:11:57] Matthew: And the reason he's in America is there is a price on his head, as you said earlier. Yes. In, in China, because in China there was a confrontation in which Cai ne's beloved Master, master Po was killed by a nephew of the emperor. And while the nephew of the emperor was reloading his gun to shoot Caine, Caine threw a spear and killed the ne, the Young Emperor's nephew. [00:12:27] Ian: Yes. [00:12:28] Matthew: And of course now that means there's a price on his head And news of this has come across to America and there's a, a bounty on his head. He's worth $10,000 alive, $5,000 dead if you can capture or kill him and bring him to the Chinese legation. [00:12:44] Ian: Exactly. So everyone who's watching kind of knows, oh, something's up with this man. He can't be safe anywhere, keeps coming after him. It seems to draw menacing mustache people. At the end of every episode, I'll say [00:13:01] Matthew: yes, we get, corrupt railroad, entrepreneurs. We get, John Saxon as a bounty hunter. And [00:13:09] Ian: yeah, [00:13:10] Matthew: it, it is a good mechanism for a TV series because if the story of that particular episode doesn't have a big final confrontation baked in, you can always bring in a bounty hunter, somebody who wants this $10,000 or $5,000 if they have to kill him first, which usually doesn't go well for the bounty hunters. [00:13:30] Ian: Yeah, they, they, that's the thing. It's, he is very clearly stated as being a great fighter, and we wind up with wonderful choreographed fight scenes. To some extent. [00:13:44] Matthew: Yeah. I was gonna say I might for, for early seventies TV shows and my reaction when I was a little kid. Yeah. These are awesome fight scenes. Yeah. Now when I watch them, they're, yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of, a whole lot of editing going on to manage around the, uh, the limitations of Carradine's abilities. [00:14:06] Ian: I'll agree with that. Yeah. He has some skill in terms of like posing Yes. But he doesn't have a lot in the moving. I'll give that. [00:14:16] Matthew: Yeah. [00:14:16] Ian: But they, which, which is interesting because I, I do applaud his physicality in all of the non fight moments, and so he kind of sells the weird editing of fight scenes and the excessive slowmo by walking like a man who hits you hard enough to warrant slowmo. [00:14:35] Matthew: Yeah. Yeah. [00:14:36] Ian: It's this weird thing. It's like you stepped into town nice enough. That, you know what? I'll buy the fact that you punched that guy, [00:14:45] Matthew: I am gonna sidekick you into a lower frame rate. [00:14:49] Ian: Yes. Oh goodness. That would be a thing in a video game, just like being able to, like if you, if you're, you hit someone, their FPS drops. Oh goodness. I could see that work. Um, but this, there is something very comic book about the way this is all, all set up in terms of the, the story structure. Even a long episode. It has this very status quo returns at the end, a distinct three act structure of wanders into town gets people upset because he's here, finds someone who needs help and helps them then is chased outta town. That structure always happens, and yet the balance is there where. Each one has its own elements and flavor and that has that, that very much like, I know in the end, you know, a hero is going to save the citizens and head off in his way. [00:15:49] Matthew: Mm-hmm. [00:15:50] Ian: But it's not like the comics going to let too much change in between. [00:15:54] Matthew: Right. Any given episode of this would make a pretty good two to four issue comic arc. [00:16:01] Ian: And in the same way the comic panel stylings fit the the combat. Yeah. You watch Carradine throw a punch and then you watch someone get hit by something. Oh. And it's got a very panel to panel. It's choreographed in the way a comic or a graphic art is choreographed. Not in the way a TV show is that, which is where I'm like, I can compliment it. And yet it's not good for the medium. It's in. [00:16:28] Matthew: You know, that's a good point, and that's probably why they were so, IM impactful to me when I was a little kid, not because I saw this when it was on tv. So I was like seven or eight years old at this point when it was starting, and I wound up seeing it because my older brothers were, were more interested in it. And I thought it was really awesome. But I, I had not seen any martial arts movies at that point. I had no idea who the Shaw brothers were. This was the first time I was seeing anything like this. And it was amazing. And you're right, it was, I, I can kind of joke now about how much it's edited, but it's edited in a very action oriented way and a very, uh, a way that conveys action in the way a comic book does. I never made that comparison before, but you're right. [00:17:16] Ian: So much of the story and heart though. Comes from the flashbacks, I'll say [00:17:24] Matthew: Yes. [00:17:25] Ian: And I wanna just give major props to Keye Luke and Philip Ahn playing master Po and Master Kahn. The two teachers who kind of took a liking to Caine and gave him the most teaching because it's getting the flashback where one of them explains something about how to deal with the universe and we then get to see it in action here in the West. That makes the show so compelling [00:17:57] Matthew: and it's easy to expect from this show that the title is Kung Fu. We tend to associate that with martial arts. It would be reasonable to expect this to be even a more action oriented show with lots of fighting, but it's really not. It is every, at least as much, if not more about the philosophy that Caine learned. in the Shaolin temple and how he is applying that to his interactions with people. [00:18:22] Ian: Honestly, I'm kind of not surprised it's from the seventies in that sense, because it feels like the sort of thing the seventies would do. But it's also very much a, like watching this show is discussing philosophy with the audience. Every episode's, this little parable about how to have some zen calm and inner peace. And apply it to life. It's a little hokey at times. They're like, I don't think you can zen calm yourself so powerfully that horses tame themselves in your presence. But the idea of avoiding conflict and yes, you'll go to the next because it's better to, it's better to hurt than to maim. It's better to maim than to kill like that structure they give of like always try to deescalate is very good and it's well exampled here and the entire story's built on the one time he didn't use that lesson well there. Or he could have done better. It's like they, they show that not everyone's perfect. So even there, it's just a very good morally centering show in a weird way. [00:19:41] Matthew: And the philosophy that we see him learning and that we see him applying it is all straightforward Taoist philosophy with some Buddhism in there. It is simplified for the sake of including in a TV show. [00:19:56] Ian: Yeah. [00:19:57] Matthew: And it is turned into a superpower as you were describing, that he's so one with nature that he can tame horses with a touch and everything else, but as an introduction to some of these ideas, it's not bad. [00:20:12] Ian: Yeah. And that, that's where I'm like, you know, if any, if any era of TV is going to give you. A not bad cup of decaf Tao. The seventies is an era I'd expected to do that. It's a not bad cup of decaf Tao. [00:20:32] Matthew: Now I was saying I was young when I saw this, 'cause I started watching it when it was originally broadcast. And then I watched it when I was a little bit older in reruns. But when it was on the air, especially, it was a little bit older in the second and third seasons, this was one of those playground TV shows where the next day my friends and I would all be talking about this because it was such a, so different than anything else we had seen. And it seemed so cool. And I'll admit at the time we were talking more about the fight scenes and about what he did to this bad guy than we were about the philosophy that it was also conveying. But I think we were picking up a little bit of that. So, you picture a bunch of us in the Catholic Parochial School, school yard. while the girls are over on the other side trying to figure out how they can become Mormons so they can marry an Osmond. we were over here saying, how can we join a Shaolin temple? Is there any Shaolin temple on Long Island? [00:21:26] Ian: This is one of those things you asked your local library about that Got you on those lists, isn't it? [00:21:31] Matthew: Oh, yes. [00:21:32] Ian: Looking up maps from local Shaolin temples. Oh, goodness. [00:21:36] Matthew: So we didn't watch too many episodes. I wanted to start us out with some of just a few that we could focus on. And like we were saying, there's not a huge structural or even thematic difference from episode to episode here. And I expect this might be a show we come back to in the future, but we did watch the pilot, which is about 90 minutes or so, maybe a little less, and that has the most flashbacks and it kind of gives us Caine's origin story. It's my favorite of the bunch. It could work as a, a self-contained movie pretty well. And I'm sure when they produced it they thought, well, we've got a TV movie and if we can continue to sell it, we've got a, the beginning of a TV series. [00:22:15] Ian: Yeah. We honestly have lost that overall, the concept of the TV movie pilots is no longer a thing. [00:22:21] Matthew: Yep. [00:22:22] Ian: Like, ah, there's something, there's something about that, you know, double length, triple length episode special to get you invested. That really was nice. [00:22:31] Matthew: Yeah. And they do recap a lot of that origin story in future episodes for, again, for people who didn't see the beginning. But I like the way that it is presented in that first, episode, that pilot, because we get longer stretches of Caine at the temple, we get to understand Young Caine better. We get to see more of Master Po and master, , Kahn. [00:22:55] Ian: Yes. And, honestly, that's the one that's the least, like any of the other episodes in that sense, to some extent because it has an episode as like the second half almost about him coming across the railroad workers and the fact that, um, om there's a lot of fun, uh, immediate reverence and and such when it's, you know, he's there. Okay. He can work. The railroad sounds good. I think. I don't, we start with him like getting in a bar fight. [00:23:29] Matthew: We do. He, uh, the, the first interaction we see him having in the, in the, the American west in the, the present day for the, the main series, he comes into town, he goes into a bar and just wants a glass of water and the. Local tough guys want him out because, you know, we want, don't want Chinese in a white man's bar. [00:23:54] Ian: Yeah. [00:23:54] Matthew: And yeah, this is, I think, very consciously, especially given its time this movie, this uh, uh, TV series and this pilot we're dealing with racism and portraying racism. Oh, very much so. As an evil much, there's a certain irony of casting David Carradine an American. Yeah. As this Chinese American man who, whose personality and, and cultural understanding is influenced far more by China than by America. Uh mm-hmm. And there's a lot, a lot of discussion about that casting. There is a lot of discussion and a lot of different takes on this TV series. Originally being from an idea code developed by Bruce Lee and according to some, accounts, it was as much Bruce Lee's idea as anybody's. And at the last minute, the network decided they couldn't cast, uh, you know, five foot six Chinese person to be a TV star every week on television. So they cast an American instead. There are other descriptions of this about how yes. Bruce Lee was pitching a TV series. He was working with some people. Others had also developed independently this idea for a TV series. And ultimately this was a different show that was being developed. Bruce Lee auditioned for it, but didn't get the role based upon that audition. And so I'm not necessarily taking any particular position as to what, which of these are, are accurate. I think it would've been a very, very different series had Bruce Lee been cast as Caine because he has a different kind of intensity than David Carradine brought to this. Uh, [00:25:41] Ian: I have not seen a, a lot of Bruce Lee at this point, I'll admit, but just, just the, the presence on screen is so different [00:25:50] Matthew: and Bruce Lee is great. I love Bruce Lee's stuff. This, this show would not have been what it is in the same way. Might have been something interesting and different. Dunno. [00:26:01] Ian: Oh yeah. [00:26:03] Matthew: But, but given that, given that those, that casting issue around David Carradine, it's an interesting mechanism they used in TV because they didn't use a lot of makeup to make Carradine look more Chinese, which is a good thing, [00:26:17] Ian: very good thing. [00:26:19] Matthew: Instead, a lot of, a lot of that was conveyed by the acting of the characters reaction, reacting to him, the, the Chinese characters in America, recognizing him as Chinese and helping him and speaking with him as, as one of their group, the white characters in America reacting to him often with racism because they recognize him as you look kind of Chinese to me. And it was, they conveyed it through acting as they wanted to comment on that racism. [00:26:55] Ian: Exactly. And it's not, it's not always reverence in one direction and disrespect in another. [00:27:00] Matthew: Oh, absolutely not. Yeah. [00:27:01] Ian: I'm thinking the second of the episodes of the series where the first thing he does is come across a man who's dying and there's this, you know, I didn't make it here. You must have had a harder time than I'm seeing you. I kind of respect that. I'm a dying man. Pardon me. Although, I will say, the guy at the start of that episode is kind of Mr. Exposition. I'm gonna be around for much longer. Let me give you some info and a McGuffin, uh, very, very much. You know, the, the opening crawl or something. I have a comic book there as well. [00:27:34] Matthew: Yes. I'll be here just long enough for the info dump. [00:27:40] Ian: Exactly. Uh, I'll, uh, just long enough for the info dump and just long enough for the, um, the fight scene against local Native Americans who I will say, if we're talking about how this show deals with racism, I think they get the shortest end of the stick in terms of depiction from what I saw. And that's got some big problems. [00:28:00] Matthew: Yes. And I think there may be some episodes later on that deal with that a bit better, but you're right. And that's a second episode that we saw, I think it was called Dark Angel. The, the Native Americans, the Apache, they're just. A violent force of nature out there to be dealt with. They're not rec, they're not portrayed really as characters of any depth or, or any kind. [00:28:21] Ian: Yeah. They do have an interesting moment there in the fight scene where he is given a spear again and we get to see, Kwai Chang Caine, who is big fault, is killing a man with a spear. Pretty much presented with the weapon of shame. Yes. Once more and gets this little opportunity to show I'm not the same fighter. [00:28:44] Matthew: Yes. [00:28:45] Ian: So that's a fine example of like highly episodic, but if you've watched the show, this means a bit more. [00:28:53] Matthew: Mm-hmm. [00:28:55] Ian: Uh, done very well. Uh, the last thing I would've expected to call this show is subtle, but that was kind of, that was almost subtle. My goodness. My man. [00:29:04] Matthew: Yes. Yes. He at the end of that fight. he refuses to kill. With and, and does so in a way that makes it very clear, I could absolutely kill you and I am choosing not to kill you. [00:29:17] Ian: but yeah, the pilot episode is a little slow as it fills in, but it's got these good moments, you know? Yeah. He, he does, he comes into town, he's thought of just as a guy, but the, the question of like, oh, how'd you get here? I walked. Uh, [00:29:36] Matthew: and that first fight that he's in that bar, fight it, they do use that to set up the fact that he will use as much force as he needs to. [00:29:47] Ian: Mm-hmm. [00:29:47] Matthew: But not seek out reasons to fight. He starts out just as somebody tries to rough him up and toss him out, just avoiding. Guy pulls out a knife, he doesn't take the knife away and use it. He uses a move to disarm the guy and stick the knife into the ceiling. [00:30:08] Ian: Which another very comic book fight moment, you know, very, it's, it's, you know, guy pulls out knife, we get a little zoom in on the knife. We watch, uh, Carradine do a kick. Then we watch the, he the, the guy move his hand up suddenly and then we see the knife in the ceiling wobbling back and forth a little [00:30:24] Matthew: Yep. [00:30:25] Ian: Panel to panel. It's completely understandable, but it's not a clean watch the man get kicked. [00:30:32] Matthew: I'm gonna have to watch these fights again with that in mind. Thinking of them as frames and panels. [00:30:37] Ian: Yeah. [00:30:39] Matthew: And it's another, uh, it's also an example of how it's always the, the aggressor, the bad guy who escalates. Mm-hmm. Not Caine. [00:30:47] Ian: Yes. Caine's never the one to escalate. And there's usually a mix of people. There is the antagonist. There are the horrified witnesses and there are the inspired witnesses, [00:31:01] Matthew: right? [00:31:02] Ian: It's, it's rarely anything but those three because, the bad guy and the bad guy's, lackeys are going to be suddenly terrified of this lanky man who can apparently jump cut them into the wall. but the person who the, antagonist has been antagonizing before Caine showed up is very grateful every time. And that is the cycle in progress each episode. And that can be anything from. The workers on the railroad who are being put into excessively dangerous conditions because the foreman thinks getting it done on time is more important than getting it done with fewer dead bodies. Or it might be the young man who is kind of being mugged for money he never had repeatedly. [00:31:49] Matthew: Yes. [00:31:52] Ian: The first episode of the actual series is a little odd in that sense because it almost feels like a structure break in that sense, but it's still the same format. [00:32:02] Matthew: It is, and it also, it does part of what we see a, a bit of in that pilot, but we see it more in the, uh, that first episode of the series, is that it's setting up a pattern, not just of Caine going from town to town and helping people. We also see, see Caine accepting help. [00:32:18] Ian: Yes. [00:32:18] Matthew: Very calmly, very graciously, because he has nothing and he doesn't want anything. He has a change of clothes. A blanket and a a few herbs and that's it. And all he needs is a, as he describes it to another character, what does he want? Uh, a place to sleep. Enough food. That's about it. [00:32:40] Ian: Yeah. It's like, you know, you know, well, here's your wages. Huh? It's like, I, why do I need this? Well, you can, you can get what you need there, and there's some extra for you. Why would I need the extra? [00:32:52] Matthew: And in that way, Caine, it's also, there's a certain kind of, I would say there's a certain kind of specifically male wish fulfillment in a character like Caine, which we also see in the Incredible Hulk. We also see in Jack Reacher. Yes. The idea of I have nothing because I don't need anything and I am totally self-possessed. I can go from place to place with no responsibilities other than the ones I choose to assume in the moment. And when I do, I will absolutely see them through. Mm-hmm. It's not a way to build a life. It's a ridiculous fiction, but it's a very engaging fiction and a very, a very fun fiction to indulge in. [00:33:34] Ian: It is, I gotta say, there's an interesting, of course, comparison here to one of our previous episodes, like a fist full of dollars or High plains drifter. It's the same sort of thing, but, and it's doing a same, a little bit of that same, you know, you can place yourself in the shoes of our protagonist. Yep. But Cain is way more super ego to the ego or ID that we see in some of those. [00:34:00] Matthew: Yes. [00:34:02] Ian: I don't need anything and I'm strong enough to make it on my own, kind of to march through town, but it's, I'm strong enough to make it through my own and be kind instead of I'm strong enough to make it through my own and to serve justice. Caine's never trying to be here and walk in and be the hero he's trying to walk through and the problems in the town are very upset that he's doing that because it gets in the way of the problems they're creating. [00:34:30] Matthew: Yeah. He is not traveling town to town, bringing justice or vengeance. He's traveling town to town and just by being himself, bringing a certain amount of peace and eventually justice, sometimes that is a peace that requires a burst of violence in order to get there. Mm-hmm. But he is bringing peace and understanding to some extent, [00:34:50] Ian: but it makes it a very interesting comparison. Psychologically of it's doing a similar catharsis like you're describing, but at a very different wavelength. [00:35:02] Matthew: And the price on his head that we talked about that is also, uh, in addition to providing a dramatic beat for episodes that need it, it's also something that helps fuel the restlessness of the series overall because he, from time to time in the series, he arrives at a place where he could live here, he could stay here, he could have a life here completely in accord with his philosophy and his view of life. But the fact that people are out to get him would put the people he is now with in danger. So he has to move on. He has no choice. [00:35:42] Ian: Exactly. And. That the fact that there's this almost, I am, I'm a wanderer because I am forced to be element. [00:35:54] Matthew: Yep. [00:35:55] Ian: You know, man, adrift on the wind by the by, by his past element that that adds something to it because you kind of start just feeling sad for Caine. It's like, oh wow, he is super strong, he is powerful, he is this force of nature and I kind of just want to kind of just want to hand him a bowl of chili and to give him a pat on his very bald, shaved head say, it's gonna be all right my man. [00:36:25] Matthew: Because there is definitely a sadness about Caine that may be secondary to the serenity of, of the way he is as a person and a character, but it's definitely there and it's one of the differences we see between Caine as he's learning and interacting with his masters in the flashbacks. And Caine, as we usually see him in America, in that he smiles more. He's still very serene. But when he is in the temple and he's learning from master Po and us talking philosophy with, uh, master Khan, you see him smile more and occasionally you get a smile as something pleases him in America. But mostly it's, there's that additional sadness given what has happened in, in between. [00:37:10] Ian: A lot of the smiles we see in the modern era are when something reminds him [00:37:15] Matthew: yes, [00:37:15] Ian: it's, you know, uh, oh, I've met another blind man, or a blamed, a blinded man who is reminding me of Master Po. And the smile of like, I can teach you the way my teacher taught me and your life is not over. Please listen. Like that, that delight of, oh, I can like master po lives on through me is the smile there. And it's like. There was nothing about what's here that's making him smile. It's that past, that's got the smile coming through in the now. Oh. [00:37:47] Matthew: And it's a good structure in that when we, once the series gets underway, when we see those flashbacks, they're always prompted by something he's experiencing or dealing with. Yes. In his present day. And, and it, um, it even deals with some, some challenging and interesting questions there in that second episode. Uh, in the, in the, the, the pilot, he's mostly dealing with corrupt, railroad baron type, uh, type folks. In the second, he is trying to help a, uh, a woman who is in a position of having to run a ranch on her own. And he is, she hires him to, to work, but it becomes clear there is an attraction between them and they could be partners. This is a place where he could stay and make a life if it weren't for the price on. Yeah. And we flash back to Master Khan talking about, yes, there are many desires and pleasures that, uh, that are part of the life of a man, and to deny them would be to deny our connection with nature. There's nothing wrong with these, with having these, these things or, uh, these, everything from connection with a woman to grandchildren in your twilight years. Yeah. Uh, the fact that they address that and yet the story makes that impossible for Caine seems very reasonable. And in meantime, meanwhile, in that same episode, he is helping a newly orphaned boy. He helps him find a place, and he's also teaching this boy some of this philosophy and some of this way to deal with difficulty and grief. That's one of the things that I'd say is a, a bit odd throughout this, and we see it in that next episode we watched as well. There are various times when what Caine needs to do to help someone is to teach this person some of what he has learned. Yeah. And somehow he manages to teach people in a few days what, it obviously took him a couple of decades to learn when immersed in the Shaolin Temple. [00:39:57] Ian: Huh. Well, why doesn't Caine just build a new temple? [00:40:05] Matthew: Well, I guess it would make him pretty easy to spot. [00:40:08] Ian: Spot. Yeah. I guess like, but yeah. Wait a minute. He's, he got really good at the teaching thing. You're absolutely right. [00:40:16] Matthew: Right. So he's teaching this boy, Shaolin, and Taoist philosophy. The boy is. Becoming more attuned to nature. He is becoming a vegetarian. He's becoming less violent. And this is over the course of a few days later on in the second episode, when a character is blinded, , partway through, he's teaching this older man how to rely on his other senses, the way he learned that Master Po who was in the Shaolin temple, who was also blind. Mm-hmm. And he manages to like teach him this again in a few days, including he stick, stick fighting. [00:40:54] Ian: Yeah. Stick fighting strong enough that he's able to, as a newly blinded blind, uh, man, uh, defend himself against a crowbar and' chisel with high accuracy. Which is just, it's kind of funny that in that one episode, uh, I'm double checking. Uh. Because that's the, I'm trying to, I'm trying to find the actor. [00:41:25] Matthew: Oh, the, the actor who plays the, uh, the preacher. [00:41:29] Ian: Yes. [00:41:31] Matthew: That actor was John Carradine. [00:41:36] Ian: That was John. [00:41:37] Matthew: Yes. Yes, it was. It was [00:41:38] Ian: John Carradine, his dad. [00:41:40] Matthew: Yes. So his dad was playing the, the Corrupt, and then by Cain Uncorrupted preacher and his right hand guy who is a young man without speech. Uh, called Sonny Jim, that's played by David Carradine's, Half-Brother Robert. [00:41:59] Ian: Okay. So it was, I I didn't realize that was, that was the dad as well. But I gotta say John Carradine kind kinda proved his son David to be a little bit lesser 'cause they didn't have to cut away from John Carradine as much on certain of those shots. [00:42:16] Matthew: Yes. [00:42:17] Ian: It's like, oh no. [00:42:23] Matthew: So I guess the, the teaching ability is another one of the kind of superpowers that his Shaolin training becomes for the sake of a TV show. [00:42:32] Ian: Yeah, that's okay. Com completely side thing, that is the coolest idea for a strange superpower idea, which is that there's a skill that is taught in a specific place. But is super powerful. Only when it's not there. It's like Shaolin power is normal when you're at the Shaolin temple, yet it becomes a superpower once you're in America because you're away from the field of influence, not within [00:43:02] Matthew: Hmm. [00:43:04] Ian: This strange, like, [00:43:06] Matthew: that's, [00:43:06] Ian: that, [00:43:08] Matthew: that's kind of superman in a way. [00:43:10] Ian: Like it kind of is, it's [00:43:11] Matthew: not a big deal on Krypton, but on, on, on earth. [00:43:15] Ian: Yeah, it is. There's, there's a very superman thing. It's like the Shaolin temple is a Kwai Chang Caine's Krypton. Although that implies that if you threw a piece of stone that was used to build that temple, he would fault unconscious. Oh no. Uh. [00:43:37] Matthew: So that second episode, and once again, he, it starts out with him helping someone. [00:43:43] Ian: Mm-hmm. [00:43:43] Matthew: He comes upon, , someone near death. He's been shot by arrows, by the Apache as they're just describing them. Yeah. And he is, yeah, he is Mr. Uh, Mr. Exposition, like we were saying before. [00:43:56] Ian: And he gets, you know, some information about where gold might be and that causes him to, he comes into town, the corrupt reverend is wanting to find where this gold deposit is to get the money, but in the quest by others to get the information, they tie up the reverend and force his eyes open. So his, he goes blind in the sun. [00:44:23] Matthew: Well, that is when, um. Uh, the, the, the Reverend Turn, he is very well spoken and he's kind in that he saves. [00:44:33] Ian: Yeah. [00:44:34] Matthew: Uh, they, when the, when the town people discover that, uh, this guy out in the, uh, in the desert had been killed, it must be this Chinaman who did it, and they bring him in and are gonna execute him. It's the reverend who talks everybody down and calms things down and saves Caine's life. But later when he realizes, oh, that guy had gold, so he must have a map to where that gold deposit is. And he, like, confronts Caine, tried to demand this map expecting a fight, and Caine just said, oh, this, here you go. Here's the map. Oh, that's it. You're just gonna give this. Sure. What do I need it for? But when he goes to follow the map, he wants to, again, encounters the Apache and ah, yeah, they tie him to a stake and, and sew his eyelids open and that blinds him. [00:45:21] Ian: But that means that suddenly the reverend has to figure out what he wants to do. He kind of loses hope. [00:45:31] Matthew: He does. And there's an interesting parallel, I think, between the Reverend and Master Po and that Master Po was a good teacher and a content person when he was discussing the subject of ambitions with, uh, with Young Caine, he talked about the fact that he does have an ambition. There is a going to be a festival in the forbidden city certain number of years from now. I would love to go to that 'cause it sounds delightful. And yes, that is an ambition. I have an ambition. No one is, no one is without flaw. The, the, the Reverend. He, he was doing a lot of good for this town. He was the person who was helping the, uh, drunks and ne're wells dry out and become better and find a life. He was running a, uh, 19th century version of Alcoholics Anonymous and, uh, a homeless shelter and everything else. And yet he wanted to travel. He wanted to see New York and Paris, and he was hoarding money to do this. And that was his ambition and the thing that was corrupting some of the other things that he was trying to do. And he eventually, Cain helps teach him to get beyond that and do some of the other good things that he had been talking about doing, like building a church. [00:46:56] Ian: And so being blind kind of sets up the Well, no, no. You can, let me show you how to, like, how to live without your sight. Let me teach you. Kind of ironically opens the reverend's eyes about, what he can achieve. [00:47:16] Matthew: Yeah. And how you can not only continue to do good, you can be better at doing good than you were before. [00:47:22] Ian: , Build the church you wanted to build here, you do good for this community. See that. [00:47:27] Matthew: And there's another aspect of that second episode we watched that also sets up some of the things that we see later in the series if we go back to this. And that is one of the things that Caine has been looking for are what are his roots? Where does he come from? 'cause knowing that is a part of knowing who he is now. And that's an important part of his philosophy, is that understanding. And he knows the town. He knows the name of the town where his father was from. This is that town. He has found it. [00:47:56] Ian: Yes. [00:47:57] Matthew: And he looks through the records. He finds a record of his father's birth. He finds his grandfather who is still there in this town as a, working as a stone cutter and a carver of headstones. [00:48:11] Ian: Yeah. A very, a very ominous place and man. [00:48:16] Matthew: Yes. Yes. And this man wants nothing to do with Caine. Yeah. He considers that the fact that his son married a Chinese woman is a, uh, a shame on the family. He insists that that heartbreak is what drove, Caine's grandmother to the grave. And it turns out the truth is a bit different. It was all this man's resistance and racism that caused all these tragedies, but Caine. Wants this information, wants or, or at least wants this acknowledgement. Yes. This is where you are from. So he goes and sits outside this guy's house, by the, by the, his grandmother's grave and just sits there for a week. Yeah. He's like on the, the absolute pacifist hunger strike. I'm, I'm not going to leave and let you forget about me. I'm not going to make any further demands on you. I'm just going to remain here until you acknowledge what this means. [00:49:20] Ian: What is it you want roots? [00:49:23] Matthew: and it turns out he finally gets this acknowledgement from his grandfather. Doesn't have much to give him, but he acknowledges this and gives him the information that you have a brother. You have a half brother, and the search for this brother becomes part of the motivation now that he's found his roots, now there's a, a living person for him to look for and we see that's come up in the series. [00:49:49] Ian: He's got someone to wander towards. [00:49:51] Matthew: Right. So it's, it's kind of nice having that. It's not just the push of, there's a price on your head, so when you go from town to town, you can't stay there long. There's also the pull of, there is something I need to find and that's one of the reasons I need to keep moving. [00:50:09] Ian: Yeah. So. I mean, we didn't watch much more than that, but I feel like I've got a good idea of the show from there and that we can keep, we could keep going episode to episode, but this, this formula is so clear and it's got some continuance, but it's very pickup and put down in that, in that style. [00:50:35] Matthew: It is, and I like that about some of these older TV shows in that when the form is executed. Well, it, it works in that way where every episode is self-contained. You get a little more sense of satisfaction if you understand more, a little more of the backstory and you've seen more. But every one is a self-contained little story than anybody can appreciate. [00:50:58] Ian: Yes. [00:51:01] Matthew: And I think we might be coming up to our final questions. What do you think? [00:51:06] Ian: I think so. There's a lot to discuss on that end. So. [00:51:10] Matthew: There is. So we will be back in a moment with, our final questions as to whether we recommend this, series and what else do we wanna see done with this idea. But first, if you are enjoying the Inter Millennium Media Project, please take a look at IMMProject.com because that's where you will find lots of other information, including all of our back episodes. You'll find places where you can contact us on, our discord or our contact page, or by email or by actual honest to goodness us mail at our PO box. And you'll also find other ways to support the podcast such as joining us on Patreon, where starting at $3 a month, you'll get additional bonus audio content. And if you join our movie club, you'll get a mystery DVD in the mail every few months. [00:52:00] Ian: Exactly. [00:52:01] Matthew: And you can also find our store, where you can get t-shirts and coffee mugs and lots of other fun things. And Ian, where can people find you? [00:52:09] Ian: It can be found as ItemCrafting. Most places be that as ItemCrafting on Blue Sky ItemCrafting.com or as ItemCraftingLive on Twitch. I, stream every, Thursday if I can and make props, have fun chats. Come on and join. How about you, dad? [00:52:32] Matthew: Well, you can find me most anywhere as ByMatthewPorter. Uh, you can find me as ByMatthewPorter on Blue Sky or Mastodon. And, YouTube and you can find links to anything I'm doing at bymatthewporter.com. And at bymatthewporter.com. You'll also find other information that I'm excited to share. Part of that is about the book that I have coming out a couple of months. My book Questions for the Dead will be available. Pre-orders are now open. And, you can also sign up for my newsletter at bymatthewporter.com. and that's way you can always know you're getting the latest information. So, Kung fu [00:53:14] Ian: Kung fu [00:53:15] Matthew: binge or no binge? [00:53:18] Ian: Oh, drip feed. I think I'm saying to, I think I'm saying this is a, a binge, this is a show to watch. But it's, it's got its flaws and it's definitely something where we watched just the right amount, three episodes at a time. I get the feeling that watching too much of this at once would just become laborous. [00:53:46] Matthew: I bet you're right about that. [00:53:48] Ian: Yeah. It's not binge, it's not bingeable in that sense. [00:53:53] Matthew: Yeah. I wouldn't approach this the way I approach, say, Gilmore Girls, where every few years I decide it's time to watch Gilmore Girls and I'll watch several episodes a day until I'm done with it here. I think a couple of episodes a week, and I probably will do that now that I've started watching it again for this episode. [00:54:12] Ian: I'm sorry. You can't do that to me. [00:54:16] Matthew: What's that? [00:54:17] Ian: You can't give me the image of Kwai Chang ca uh, Caine wandering into Stars hollow fixing something by fighting somebody and then leaving. [00:54:29] Matthew: I don't know. I could see Kirk as kind of a Kwai Chang Caine character. [00:54:36] Ian: He just lifts it, just cur. Kirk lifts up his arms and you see the two branded tattoos from when he moved the pot of, of burning coals. [00:54:45] Matthew: One of my favorite bits of Highlander fan fiction is about Kirk being one of the Immortals. [00:54:54] Ian: Oh. Talk about a talk about a franchise that definitely has some influence from kung fu in it. Oh, yes. Not in terms of the movie, but like the Highlander TV show. [00:55:04] Matthew: Yeah. [00:55:04] Ian: Absolutely. Takes some influence from this. Right. [00:55:08] Matthew: That combination of philosophy and. Action, combat. [00:55:12] Ian: Exactly. I will say this series has so much more of a life to it than I expected because kung fu search engine non-optimized show that it is [00:55:24] Matthew: Yes. [00:55:25] Ian: went on to have kung fu. The legend continues. That was a show from 93 to 97. So it, it actually went from the legend continues, went for more episodes than the original. And that's, once again, David Carr in a modern temple training, a new disciple, uh, set in a modern environment. [00:55:55] Matthew: So it's like the legend continues after a big time jump. [00:56:00] Ian: Well, kind of, because in between those. It kept trying to get revived in as well, resulting in kung fu the movie, in 86 and Kung Fu, the Next Generation in 87. [00:56:20] Matthew: And there was like a complete reboot sometime in the 2000. It just wasn't there [00:56:25] Ian: 2021. So literally just a few years ago there was an entire reboots re-imagining. It's very, very different from what I can see here. But that got three seasons as well. [00:56:47] Matthew: Yeah. [00:56:47] Ian: On the cw. So the kung fu as a franchise has this. This continuation and this legacy in media. So it's hard to really go into saying our standard revive reboot or rest in peace in some ways because it's gotten a lot of attempts and is still kind of doing. So, [00:57:13] Matthew: yeah. It's, it's not just that it influenced other tv and to some extent I think it did, but yeah, they're all, it, it, it won't quite let go. [00:57:23] Ian: Yeah. So I, I'm always glad that we, uh, that, that we list what there is in these, you know, what there has already been to try to get the momentum going, but what is it we're looking for next? [00:57:42] Matthew: Yeah. [00:57:43] Ian: In this series, [00:57:44] Matthew: it's an interesting idea. I know nothing about the, the most recent reboot of Kung fu. So maybe this has already been done, but it would be interesting to see this done with more of the writing and more of the casting and more of the, uh, the, the control and the direction of the series influenced by the cultures that it is purporting to represent. [00:58:13] Ian: Um, I'm with you on that. [00:58:15] Matthew: And, and it's interesting, it even goes to the casting of the original where there's the issue around casting David Carradine as, as Caine, but at the same time, there was a big push during the making of the original series for casting Asian actors, in so many roles. And people were saying it. Anybody in Hollywood who was Asian had a role in this series in some way. Of course, key Luke had a huge long career going back to playing the son in the Charlie Chan movies decades earlier. [00:58:47] Ian: Yes. [00:58:48] Matthew: And he's an amazing person in his own right. He was a, a painter and an illustrator, and then he was discovered and had this big acting career. And, Philip Ahn, who played Master Khan, he was a Korean American actor. Yeah. And there wasn't a lot of distinction among different countries and culture. Oh, you look Asian, so we've got this Chinese character for you. [00:59:09] Ian: Yeah, that's a problem at the [00:59:10] Matthew: time. But, but I think that something that went beyond the casting and had writers who had more of that cultural background to draw upon could be interesting, especially if it's someone who has the writing ability to bring that into an American TV style and convey that in that way. [00:59:35] Ian: Oh yeah. I'm always, I wanna say like, it's brilliant just to go, go to the IMDB, or even better actually go to the Wikipedia for this show. And look at the list of actors appearing in one episode and ev so many act, so many Asian actors were able to get and so many other actors. Yeah. Got an episode. I am amazed at this because some of these are people who are well established at the time and they're a wonderful guest star. Some of these are people who got a important role in the narrative in this one episode, and because of that wandering nature, that's one episode and you're done. And that meant that they kept going from there. This is part of an early career for some people and part of a, uh, a wonderful guest starring role for others. Wild example, one of the people on that list, Harrison Ford shows up, but I'm also looking at, there's a season two episode where Anne Francis shows up. [01:00:41] Matthew: Yeah. [01:00:41] Ian: We were just talking about her in, uh, the start of the year and it's, you know, here she is, you know, all these different eras of, of film and tv. Getting singular episodes is really powerful and in the, you drop an entire eight episode season structure. We have now that guest starring role has vanished. [01:01:05] Matthew: I almost had us jump farther into the series because there's an episode featuring Leslie Nielsen. [01:01:13] Ian: There is. [01:01:14] Matthew: Oh [01:01:14] Ian: yes, [01:01:15] Matthew: but you're right. It's, it's kind of different in, that's something that the. The, the, the wandering from town to town, from place to place, the Wandering Hero formula of series, it necessarily has to have a big new guest cast for each episode. And we don't tend to see that anymore. And we don't tend to see that kind of wandering storyline anymore. We, instead we have lawyer shows and hospital shows and things in which the guest characters on the, are the ones who come in to deal with the characters that we're following day to day, uh, episode to episode who are staying in one place. Mm-hmm. We don't see one or a small main cast going to another place to see a whole society of people. And I, I wonder, I'm trying to remember the last time a series like that was really made and I, it's, it's a tough thing to think about because they don't really make that kind of TV anymore. [01:02:18] Ian: Yeah. Uh. We talk about binge or no binge. [01:02:21] Matthew: Yeah, [01:02:22] Ian: but that's a, that's because the TV we've got is a little more sedentary. [01:02:27] Matthew: Yeah. [01:02:28] Ian: It's the TV is set in a place and it stays in the place and it does its thing and it comes all at once. I guess what I was wanting with the, the drip feed was I was asking us to wander. [01:02:41] Matthew: Yeah. [01:02:41] Ian: This is a show that format and narratively is about a wandering, [01:02:47] Matthew: and maybe what I'm noticing here is something, it's the flip side of something we talk about a lot when we talk about old tv. We talk about the fact that there isn't a lot of big story arc episode to episode continuity because there's absolutely no expectation that someone has seen the prior episode or will see the next episode, and that leads to things like this where everything's very episodic. There's wa the wandering storyline place to place. Maybe audiences would not, or there's a concern that audiences would not like that. If it's a series that is streaming or that is DVR'd and you know, everybody watching this is going to be watching every episode, do they not want, would they feel disconnected? You know, why, why do I have to start over? I already watched last episode. Why are you making me learn a whole new town in a whole new bunch of people? And the only thing it, it has in common with what I've seen before are the one or two people that I've been following. Maybe there's, it's not just that the wandering storyline avoids the problem of inconsistent viewing. Maybe the wandering storyline creates a problem when you have consistent viewing. [01:04:04] Ian: That makes it hard to figure out how to suggest this though. [01:04:08] Matthew: It, it does, doesn't it? [01:04:11] Ian: I think that I'm actually, I was expecting to come in here with a rest in peace to say that Kung Fu has obviously in influenced so many things. [01:04:20] Matthew: Mm-hmm. [01:04:21] Ian: From, you know, from the Mandalorian to Kung Fu Panda, all these modern things. There is some tie back to the way this presented, some of these concepts and formats. But I think I'm starting to lean into a revive or a reboot. I'm, I'm, I'm leaning towards a reboot, but I don't want it to be released like a show nowadays. I want it to be, I almost want this to be like an occasional, uh, web series format is the best I can think of. It's the modern equivalent. [01:05:01] Matthew: Yeah. I, that's what I want. I want a reboot, but I want a true reboot. I want a western. Yes. I don't want it to be jumped into the modern day. I don't want it to be a next, you know, next generation of Shaolin. I want it to be a, a reboot with Kwai Chang Caine in the American West, having learned in a Shaolin temple. But I want it to be made with modern direction and cinematography and writing and sensitivities. [01:05:32] Ian: Yes. [01:05:32] Matthew: But yeah, I don't think a tv, uh, a weekly TV series is the way to do this. I'd say, um, either something more like a British TV series where you get four to six episodes and then a year and a half later maybe you get some more, or just something like a streaming series or a series of movies where every year or so, or every six months, we get another 90 minute story. [01:06:00] Ian: Yeah. Yeah, I want that. I want that steady pace. I want him to wander back into our consciousness on a regular basis. Yeah. You know, and you can still film it with the modern structure. You've got, you know, you want, you want to have everyone gather together and film a bunch of things. Yeah. But get some guest actors for each of the individual episodes for the town he wanders into. Mm-hmm. Uh, you know, have our Kwai Chang Caine in, wander into Jason Momoa being the town sheriff in one episode. And I'm trying to think of some other, other, you know, other actors, uh, [01:06:45] Matthew: yeah. [01:06:46] Ian: You know, get us some names that we don't know and some names that we do and sprinkle them throughout. They don't have to be here for long, but it fills out the world. [01:06:55] Matthew: Yeah. [01:06:57] Ian: And then. Gimme two episodes in February and give me two more in July. Mm-hmm. And a couple in November. And that's all I need. I don't need to sit and eat two bags of popcorn watching this all at once. I need to, every once in a while get that little realignment. [01:07:16] Matthew: Yeah. That would be a fun way to do it. And you would think that the flexibility of, of streaming would make that kind of thing possible, but you really don't see very much, it's still very much a, a seasonal story arc. And then there's a break and there's another seasonal story arc. [01:07:33] Ian: Mm-hmm. [01:07:34] Matthew: Uh, even on, on Netflix and Hulu and the, like, [01:07:38] Ian: there's a, there's an idea that status quo is evil. [01:07:43] Matthew: Yeah. [01:07:43] Ian: And therefore we must make stories that are perpetually evolving their status quo and moving forward. [01:07:49] Matthew: Yeah. And I talked about an example of this kind of character and structure and I mentioned Jack Reacher. Yeah. Even the Jack Reacher TV series, each season is one book, so you get a whole season of continuity. It may change season to season, but it's not the wandering from town to town in the same way that Kung Fu or the incredible Hulk were [01:08:14] Ian: in the wildest way, to bring it all together. A lot of the modern shows are focusing so much on these other pieces. They're not taking time to just see the grasshopper at their feet. [01:08:29] Matthew: Yes. [01:08:30] Ian: Pull it all together. It's like there's a whole lot in this show about being aware and trusting your environment and the shows aren't doing that. It's like, no, no, no. Trust the format to do what it does, and a show like this can survive. It doesn't need the giant push. It needs the patience. [01:08:53] Matthew: I like that. And I think that is a, a good place to end this where we want a reboot with the right kind of mindset. [01:09:02] Ian: Absolutely. [01:09:04] Matthew: Well, this was fun and I do have a feeling we're not done with this, uh, TV series. I know that I'm not, I'm gonna go back to watching it. Now that I've got the DVDs, [01:09:11] Ian: I get the feeling we're gonna wander back into here at some point with more to talk about and maybe some of the other, other shows are going to pull from the influence. This had, it's not a major impact, but it's a steady and subtle one. [01:09:27] Matthew: Yeah. [01:09:27] Ian: And so I definitely think there might be things we watch later where, uh, we're coming back to kung fu. It's going to be like, yes, I saw some of this in there, and vice versa. So, [01:09:38] Matthew: and that's been one of the fun things about doing this podcast. Now that we're approaching 200 episodes, we have watched together so many things. We're getting to recognize these influences across time and across series, across movies. [01:09:51] Ian: Yes. And , I just wanted to say it's amazing that we're coming up on that we're in the home stretch now. [01:09:58] Matthew: Yes. [01:09:59] Ian: And the fact that there have been people who have been with us listening since the beginning means so much to us both. I, I wanted to, to say that to the audience. [01:10:09] Matthew: Yes. It, it is really appreciated. It's great to get a chance to make this, and it's great to know that there are people out there who are, are enjoying listening. So thank you so much for listening. Yes. And if, of course, if any comments or any suggestions based upon what we've talked about, the other things that you think we should take a look at or things you'd like us to discuss, let us know. Go to immproject.com and and reach out [01:10:35] Ian: And in the meantime, go find something new to watch.