Music: Once Matthew: again, for an episode of the I double MP, the intermillennium media project podcast, my name is Matthew Porter. Ian: And I'm Ian Porter. Matthew: I'm his dad. He's my son. And we've watched, we've watched a movie this time. Because Ian: we have. Matthew: We are still in the depths of October. Ian: Spookies. Matthew: The time of the autumn people. And we haven't quite left the October carnival. Ian: We have not because as we discussed last episode, we're doing the adaptation or we kind of hinted at Matthew: we did Ian: this. This is the 1983 dark fantasy film, Something Wicked This Way Comes produced by Walt Disney. Matthew: Yes, Walt Disney pictures. Ian: Yeah. Matthew: And if this happens to be your first episode of the I double mp, well, first of all, welcome It's great to have you here. Glad you've joined you've joined us But also you might want to consider going back and listening to our our previous episode first Because in that episode we talk about the novel the ray bradbury novel something wicked this way comes And I have a feeling that a lot of what we talk about about this movie Is going to include discussion of what's different. What did they adapt? What did they change for the sake of the movie? So you might want to listen to our our discussion of the book and then come back to hear us talk about the movie Ian: Mm hmm I would definitely say so, but at the same time, I want to treat this movie just on its own as a piece of children's horror, which is a genre that I feel at the time in 1983 was one thing, during my childhood was a completely different, and modernly is a third thing altogether. Matthew: Yeah, there are, there are a lot of ways in which writers and filmmakers, there are some who really get how to make horror for children, and some who don't, and they don't kind of understand why do kids want to be scared, in what ways do kids appreciate being scared, and, and that can be a hard target to hit sometimes. Ian: Yes. So how is it that we start on Something Wicked This Way Comes? I'm going to just come out right, come right out and say it. This is a movie that is built entirely of atmosphere. Matthew: Yes. Ian: This is a movie whose narrative for being book based actually falls a little bit more roughly than the book it's based on. I would say that this is a, a bit of a sequence of vignettes at times. Matthew: Yes, and this happens, I think, in some novel adaptations. What you get is not as much a A movie that holds together completely in its own right as much as a series of illustrations of pieces from the book. And it's not focused on the narrative coming together in a very coherent or very specific way. But I have to say that about the book, the book didn't have a super complex narrative. So much of the book was about the atmosphere and the tone set by the, the very rich language in which that book is written. Here, I think we've got a filmmaker trying to translate that into rich imagery and rich mood in the way that the film is shot. Ian: Yeah, Jack Clayton, who directed this, is doing the best he can with a screenplay based on something like This Way Comes By Ray Bradbury. And the screenplay itself was written by Ray Bradbury. Yeah. This is one of those instances where the movie was written by the author, and yet they come across very differently, but Ray Bradbury still is able to have that tone first, environmental feeling that chill in the air is the core of the horror kind of look the entire way through. He's able to keep that even having a narration that is very similar to the way the. Narrator in the book is doing stuff. Sometimes exact, sometimes not. It's very cleanly, you know, atmospheric in that sense. Matthew: And this is an instance, I don't want to start with too much negative because there's a lot that I really, really like about this movie. But I think that there are times when a novelist adapting their own novel for the screen doesn't work as well as having someone else adapt it. And I think some of the reasons, and Bradbury did have some experience as a screenwriter, but he's primarily a writer of prose fiction. He, he knows this story so well, and he knows where it's going, and he knows what he wants to do with it. And, therefore he assumes that we're along for the ride, and that we're keeping up with him in ways that a screenwriter coming to this fresh wouldn't necessarily assume. Somebody who's primary focus is on writing for the screen. Might have been able to take a story like this and put it on screen in a way that works better and that has a more powerful narrative and isn't just vignette after vignette. But, but then again, it's a kind of a, it's, it's a very. It's, it's almost an episodic story in that way, so maybe that's how it would turn out no matter who is writing it. Some of the, the, the overall structural differences, I'd say, between the novel and the movie and about how it turns into a movie. But you're right, we should take this movie in its own, in its own right, for its own sake, as much as possible as well. Ian: Yeah, and it starts out with, meeting our two boys serving school detention for whispering, which is a great way, I'll say, of giving us both of them and letting our narrator compare the two. And then showing the town and all the people in it and everything else, it's an excellent format of just kind of, you know, the trip from school to home shows you everything. Sets the entire place so well. Matthew: And something else that first, that first scene sets up is, as you say, they were in detention for whispering during class. Because these, these boys are essentially one. They are blood brothers. Everybody acknowledges that. They are so close. They can't. Spend a half an hour in school, not communicating with one another in some way, but throughout the movie, whenever they deal with Miss Foley, the teacher, she refers to them as my whisperers, either with scorn, occasionally with some affection. And that's sort of one of the ways they're identified is the whisperers. And I think that has to do with both the communication between them and the way they relate to the world around them. Ian: Yeah, Matthew: it's kind of an eerie moniker for them. Ian: It is. And, establishing that, establishing the teacher early on, establishing all the characters, we wind up comparing them less to each other and more to the outside world. That single character aspect actually is very, very strengthened, I'd say. And so that makes later issues more vivid. Matthew: Right, it's very much them against the world and they are a unit. Right. And that's how they work in the relationship with, with Charles Halloway, the father. He is, when is he outside of their little unit? When does he become part of it? When does he become the person who's helping them as individuals and as their little unit grow? And that's sort of how he finds his way, is how he relates to them. And, Jason Robard, I cannot imagine better casting for Charles Halloway than Jason Robard. Ian: He does an excellent job for this version of Charles Halloway. He is, he has that, like, haunted, yet meek kind of combo. Right. Matthew: And he's, he's a very versatile actor, so he is able to play the, the person who feels more decrepit than he is, somebody who feels older than he is, who's very self conscious, and yet, he's somebody who can bring out that strength when he needs it. Ian: I looked it up and yeah, I, I had to look it up, but yes, he had military service in the Navy and you see him almost use that in his acting because you can tell sometimes actors, especially in these times who have military background, which plenty did or in one way or another, but there's something about like playing strength is physical in that sense. And this movie has a lot of physicality. Matthew: That's an interesting point. Ian: For good and for ill, I'd say, but it's physicality with our people where it's like Charles Halloway's like hunched expression, kind of head tipped into his own shoulder. Hi everybody. And then when he needs to actually deal with something when he's later in the story kind of finding his own strength. He just goes up to attention, and he has this force. And I can see that, that routine of military life being what pulls, he pulls upon that. Matthew: Interesting point there, there were so many actors of his generation who in their youth had military service. I wonder to what extent that helps define what we think of as that style of acting from that period of Hollywood. Ian: Yeah, because you're gonna have something that has that, that form and that rigidity for Presentation is going to affect how you do presentation in that sense. Matthew: At very least he has that to draw from when the character needs it Ian: Exactly. Matthew: And you're right, there is, it's, this is, this is part and parcel of turning a novel into a movie, but there is a physicality to everything that's happening, that everything in the book seemed a little bit kind of, misty, of, you know, one step removed, we're getting a flowery description of something that's being remembered and we're seeing it immediately on screen, which gives it. It heightens the horror aspect, but also it makes it a little more confrontable, a little more understandable because we can see it. Ian: I agree. Like, that's the thing. Like, I think that it does so much for the town, and it does so much for certain moments of scare when there's that visual nature of seeing something. But the fact that all of the big scary things are solid. Matthew: Yes. Ian: And therefore, we lose these unnatural description elements. It's like, yes, he's creepy, but he's not shadows on the wall that make him look like he's not really a human. He never, like, our bad guy never stops looking punchable. And that changes something. Matthew: Yes, and Jonathan Pryce as Mr. Dark is also good casting. Ian: Jonathan Pryce is Mr. Dark doing such work and yet also not always being able to give it what it, give the, the role what it wants. Matthew: You're right about the, the kind of the punch ability. You get the impression that, you know, we could solve a lot of this right now with a good uppercut. Ian: Oh, absolutely. You and that chiseled draw, Mr. Pryce. Matthew: And yet Pryce gives him this air of, of invulnerability, he's physically there. He's not super imposing, except that his demeanor is very imposing. And yet you get the impression that there are depths there. And he is not afraid of you or anything else, and he doesn't have to be. Ian: But we've gotten to meet the town here, we get to meet, the amputee bartender, we get to meet the very, very imaginative, best I'll give you, barber, who's constantly thinking about exotic women in exotic locations. Yes. Dude is just a, like a, a, a walking travel ad at times in the worst ways. Matthew: Right. And he really wants to meet some ladies. Ian: Exactly. The lotto obsessed cigar shop owner. Matthew: He wants money, no matter more than anything else. Ian: Mm hmm. We kind of meet all these characters, get all this. We hear all about the little, the little faults and flaws of the people that make the town what it is. Matthew: Yeah. We hear about how the old stern school teacher used to be. So beautiful when she, and desired when she was young. Ian: Exactly, yeah. Matthew: And clearly they are setting us up for what they do later with the carnival. Music: Mm hmm. Matthew: And we meet Charles Halloway, who is not the janitor the library. He's the librarian. Ian: He's the librarian! Matthew: Makes him a little more engaged in the town, a little more outgoing, which again, you have to do for a movie. You can't have him filled with interior monologue. You've got to have him out and dealing with people. Ian: Yeah. He has to be a bit more personable than, than book Charles Halloway. Yeah. And we get to, we get to meet the rest of the families. We get to meet Mrs. Halloway, who is very, you know, kind and, you know, cooking dinner and taking care of the family. She's a little bit less Flat actually than she is in the book. I'll say. Matthew: Yeah. Ian: She's got a little bit more to her. We also get to meet Miss Nightshade and we get to see this stark contrast between their lives. Where the Halloways are kind of a normal family. Things are going all right. And the Nightshades are, they feel like they're perpetually teetering. Matthew: Right. They are so torn and they're so unsettled because , they have this dream that her husband, his father, Mr. Nightshade, is going to come back from his overseas trip someday. And yet, they kind of know that, he's not. And she is very lonely, she has, gentleman visitors, and yet she knows her husband's gonna come back someday, even though she, or she, she dreams that her husband is gonna come back someday. And Jim dreams of having a father. Ian: And this is where the start of the first supernatural element is really coming in, because as this is all happening, into the town has arrived Tom Fury, the lightning rod salesman, who is very different in this story and a little bit more energetic and a little bit more approachable. He's actually. going around and selling in the street and getting a little small crowd around him and such. Matthew: He's much more the slightly crazy traveling prophet. Ian: Yeah! Matthew: He's not the, the music man, slick guy comes into town with a cool line of patter sells you stuff you don't necessarily need but he convinces you you absolutely need it. Instead, he's all the mystical orient where these things were crafted to protect you as you need protection from lightning, and I can tell when the storm is coming, so trust me, you need this now. Ian: I was very surprised he seemed because we get to see him like walking into town and looking over his shoulder at the storm clouds. And he just has a lot more. Presence overall, and Matthew: he is so distinct. He is such a great contrast to the normality of the town as we see it at the beginning and the, the polished weirdness of the carnival as we see it later. He is this thing in between. He's sort of a bridge between these strange worlds Ian: and he meets the boys, goes through the entire thing of learning their names and pitching to them. But. He sells the lightning rod to Jim Nightshade,, for like two pennies, so practically he gives it to him, but he still makes sure it's a sale. Matthew: Yes. Ian: He still, , makes it an event, he still goes through the process in that sense. Matthew: And that also gives us another way to see the situation that Jim and his mom are in, that they don't have a lot of money to spare. They've got a little jar on the counter with what little bit they've been able to put aside. And Jim gives this to Tom Fury in exchange for the lightning rod. Ian: And he picks out one of the lightning rods, the one that scarab beetle design. Matthew: Very cool designs on these lightning rods. Ian: Very cool design. Okay. I got to say, maybe it's just the amount of anime I've been watching, but there's something about this version of Tom Fury, this man in this long coat and a hat wandering into town with a large sequence of like metal rods with ancient designs on them. Like in this movie. He sells one of them to the kids and acts as this, this character. In an anime, this guy would roll into town, the wind would happen, and he'd mystically float all of these rods into the air and fight a demon with them. Which he kind of does later, I'll just say. But there's something about this version of Tom Fury that is way more action hero. Matthew: Yes, I felt like at any moment he, the switch could flip and he could throw off the crazy prophet routine and become the veteran mentor from a Final Fantasy game. Ian: Yes, exactly. He has that kind of air in the weirdest way. Matthew: Yep. Ian: But, , they put up the lightning rod, and they also, as that's happening I believe, for like that night, see the papers being scattered around town, announcing the incoming carnival. Matthew: Yes, and Dark is there tossing flyers in the air to, To blow around town. Yeah, Dark's there early. Yes. And, but we'd only see him from a distance and from behind. Mm hmm. With this almost funereal formality as to the way he's stalking about the town, tossing flyers into the air. Ian: And so we see the boys pick it up and get confused but excited. And we watch Charles Halloway pick one up, and the dark pallor of concern washes over him for a moment. Right. Right. Matthew: And we start to see strange things happening in town, like people having visions, like Tom Fury having a vision of the beautiful woman trapped in ice. Ian: Mm hmm. And in comes the carnival. And the carnival just feels so different and interesting in this. It is creepy, but it is so much more properly approachable and normal. Matthew: It is. There's a certain There's this physicality to it and it is like a polished showbiz operation. Ian: The setting up in the quick night doesn't seem as confusing. Right. And the train rolling in, which is an iconic thing. They put a lot of time on. They show the opening credits over the train incoming. They show all of this. The train has all of these cars, which are spooky, Matthew: the first really weird almost supernatural kind of thing we get about the carnival Unless you count the fact that dark was in town even before the train got there is the fact that they see the train roll In they are running And this is it's coming in late at night, which is weird in the first place. But They get there moments after the train came to a stop, and the carnival is completely set up. Ian: Yes. Matthew: They don't watch the tents go up, and they don't stay there for an hour watching all the the people, you know, hammer pegs and all this. It's like, as soon as the train stopped, somebody snapped their fingers, and the carnival is ready to go. Ian: Definitely eerie. And this is, I believe, where we first get Will Holloway talking with his father? Matthew: Yes. Ian: It's right after this scene where they talk about, you know, it's 3 a. m. witching hour when people die, which is such a, an interesting thing. But it also leans in on the fact that this movie is a lot more about fatherhood , and I mean, that's an aspect from the book as well, but it has to pare down its presentation to some extent. Matthew: Right. It has to focus more. Ian: And so it's a, it's a, A bigger emphasis to have the dad, the talks with the father and make that the point. And there's the discussion of like, I'm sorry for that time you were in the river and I didn't come get you. Matthew: Right. Because you Ian: almost drowned. Matthew: They don't have as much just a general regret of being so old and so many things he didn't do and why didn't he have his son younger when he'd be able to, be part of his son's life more. Instead, we get this very specific event, which I think was mentioned in the book, but this becomes so central because it gives us that one concrete illustration of what he couldn't do for his son, and that's the regret that he has, saving him from this drowning incident. Someone else did. Yeah. It was, it was Jim's father, before Jim's father disappeared. That's who saved Will from drowning. Ian: Yes. Matthew: And this has been a source of shame and regret for Charles ever since. Ian: So that discussion kind of hits a little bit different in terms of its placement and it being right after the setup, but before we've seen the carousel and the carnival in action. Matthew: Right. Now, this is before they see the carousel in Mr. Cougar? Ian: I thought so. I bel I thought that this was coming Matthew: back from, Oh, right, right. Because this was before the carnival really opened. The next day when they go back and they see the The teacher has been a little bit dazed by the mirror maze and things like that. Ian: Yeah. Matthew: And the now amputee former school football hero is doing the strength test hammer swing, that kind of thing. Ian: And everyone's, enjoying the carnival, going to it, seeing it, it seems so much more normal. Matthew: And they sneak in to get a look at the carousel that's out of order, and that's when they meet Mr. Dark. And they show us a little bit of Mr. Dark as the illustrated man, and he's got the dancing tattoos on his arm. They, they greatly diminish that. We don't see a shirtless, we never see a shirtless Mr. Dark. He's always in the black suit and the top hat. Ian: Yeah, he's always Matthew: got the tattoos. Ian: He's still got the tattoos, but he's not as vividly illustrated or, and, and they use a certain type of special effect that was more common in this time, which is that layered animation aspect, a lot of animated smoke effects, a lot of animation layered into the footage on Mr. Dark whenever they show that. But I feel like their budget was limited in terms of its use there. Matthew: Yeah, this was not, this was not a low budget movie at the time. I think it was made for about 20 million, which that's a pretty good budget in pretty good in 83, but yeah, they relied a lot. And it was very Disney in that sense in that you, when you need to merge the real world and something magical, you do it with an animation overlay, which is a little bit distracting, but it works because it fits with the tone of the movie. Ian: I bet that if you did not show people, like, the opening, you just showed them the middle and asked who made this, they could guess it was Disney, because it has a distinctly Disney live action animation for the magic feel. Matthew: It does, and even the live action filming and style, it seems like a throwback to some of the 60s and early 70s. Live action adventures that Disney was doing so much of at the time Ian: very much So and part of what we do get is seeing the carousel in action, right? As the carousel takes his the assistant. Mr. Cougar and reverts him Matthew: because they know something's up with this carousel So they come back late at night and they see that they sneak in and see this happening Ian: Yeah, and they watch it go backwards. And that's an interesting way to do the backwards. It's kind of multi exposure. Matthew: Yes. Ian: And shaky cam. Matthew: Right, we get this kind of blur. It's the kind of thing you do see in some time travel movies later on. Yeah. Where things are blurring one to the other and we see several actors who kind of look like like Mr. Cougar getting younger and younger as they pass. Because they're running the carousel backwards. Ian: And some excellent doing that with like, different hands. So you see the hands go from the larger to the smaller and the smaller to the kid. Matthew: Oh, that's right, they do cut away and you see the, he suddenly has to put his feet up on the stirrups because his legs are shorter. Ian: Mm hmm. Matthew: And we end up with this little grim looking, red headed kid who does look remarkably like a young Mr. Cougar. Good casting there. Ian: Remarkably like. I will say at this point, some of the costuming and such, there's something very, like, Dennis the Menace, kind of, about the costuming for kids in this. Matthew: Yes. Ian: Some of these kids outfits feel, feel off to me. I don't know why. They're very cartoony in its own way. There's a heightened element to make sure they look like kids. Maybe it's them trying to aim everyone a little bit younger, but I'm not sure. Matthew: Right, and they never actually say, you know, when this is set, but it has that kind of 19 teens or between the war, between the wars kind of feel. Yeah. It's kind of a, a generic early mid century Americana. Ian: Mm hmm. But Mr. Cougar is now a little boy, and he runs off into town. So now the carnival has an agent changed and snuck into town. And this is also one of those moments where it's like, how we got to here. I checked the time and I was like, kind of surprised where this lands in the movie feels off because of the, the vignettes like nature of this, where it's like, Oh, scene to scene scene, we bounced from this and the moving to the next as to why they head off to see Mrs. Foley afterwards felt a little off for that same reason, I'll say. Matthew: Well, they chased the kid into town and eventually they found out that that's where he was. Right. I think so. Because they noticed Because Mrs. Foley had talked about her nephew coming to visit her, that's why she had to get home. But then when they see these silhouettes in the windows, one of them is clearly the kid from the carousel. Ian: Yeah, that is why. Matthew: Will just wants to go away. And Jim wants to go in and he says it's because he wants to warn Mrs. Foley, but Jim calls him out saying you just want to meet that weird thing that's in there. Yeah. Both a little bit true maybe? Ian: Yeah, they're both a little true. That's kind of That's kind of where we start to see that split between them come in more, more firmly, where Jim is pulled by this and Will is pushed by this. Matthew: Right. Jim is fascinated and he's always wanting to reach in further, and yet he's not always honest about his reasons. And Jim is the one who points out and calls him out on that lets him know I I know what you're really thinking here and once again we see this kid who with the makeup kind of he's a little kid but he's got these dark circles under his eyes and he looks like a little kid with the weight of experience that Mr. Cougar had yes very creepy Ian: it's so well done but so creepy so weird I'm trying to look up who the who the kid was Brendan Killinger, who only has two, two credits, and this was his last credit. Good job. But he did a, good job. My goodness. Yep. He did amazing. And older Mr. Cougar was played by Bruce M. Fisher, who, who was Looks to be one of those shows up in a lot of places. You've probably seen him somewhere in an episode of something kind of actors. Matthew: Yeah, one of these character actors who's who's always in something never rarely in a lead role, but always in these key background roles or these key supporting roles. Ian: And for a movie like this, having good supporting roles in the cast of the of the carnival is important. We have gotten to see a lot more of the background carnies. There's a lot more depicted characters because of that. Mm hmm. And they are all over the place and I can distinctly just see that there's more than one makeup artist making carnival people because some of them have large prostheses and other stuff on them. Others have costuming decisions to be able to make them carnival people, but the variety is always, there's just always a new odd person showing up in the background as a carnival person. In this rotating background cast, which sometimes makes the a little bit more crisp and able to slip into the normal everyday life of Mr. Dark and some of his closer associates more chilling. Matthew: Yes, there's more of an operation going on here and it gives you the sense that this is built over a long time. Ian: Yes. But, they go in to see young Cougar. Yep. And Instead of attempting to to frame them for theft like he does in the book. He just like walks outside and follows them. Then just quietly picks up a rock, looks at them, and smashes a window, and then runs away. And then runs away. Which is such a powerful like, hey. Watch this. Matthew: It's more straightforward, I like it. It's so much less complicated, less, less high stakes than the idea that they were there to More believable than the idea that they were there to rob her jewelry or something. Ian: Yeah. It's like, no, no. Just property destruction. Yeah. Just basically kid Matthew: vandalism, Ian: can kid vandalism, but it was still like, it was creepy in its simplicity. Matthew: Right. Just this stark intention behind it. You know, I, this, I don't have to do anything fancy. I know what to do to get you guys in trouble. Ian: Mm. This puts Will and Jim on the run. Yes. And it's during this on the run segment where we start to see bits of the other people in the town being drawn in. If I remember correctly, Matthew: right, I think this was through that first day of the Carnival and other times there's the Exotic Dancing Ladies tent, and of course the barber. Has gone in there and is called up to join the dance and he's surrounded by these beautiful women and he seems to be in ecstasy and that's the last we see of him for a while. Yeah. And the, the money loving cigar store owner plays the wheel of fortune game and wins a thousand dollars. And is just delighted by that and then he gets to ride the Ferris wheel sharing the bench with a beautiful lady we have seen before and she's part of Dark's operation. This is the movie's version of the witch. Ian: Who we saw her, whose ring is such a distinctive piece of her costuming. This ring with this glowing red jewel in it, which is part of what the lightning rod salesman Tom Fury saw. When the Dust Witch was in ice, which is something that keeps on being like, you know, the, the camera will zoom in on it and it'll glow for a moment when magic is happening. Matthew: Right, and she's played by Pam Greer, who does a great job because she's called on to be so many different kinds of characters. Because she essentially has to appeal to all of the different people that the carnival is dragging in Ian: yes Matthew: Oh and and the the cigar store owner gets on this Ferris wheel Takes a ride and he's not there when it comes back to the bottom. She's there alone. Ian: Yeah People are just kind of vanishing into the carnival Yes, Matthew: and later that night is when we see what happens to miss Foley the teacher. Music: Mm hmm, Matthew: and she She's looking in the mirror, she's remembering how beautiful she was when she was young. And then she sees herself in the mirror, as beautiful as she was, and she's delighted and amazed. And then there's this flash of green over her eyes, the same green as the magic we tend to see with the Dust Witch. And she's struck blind. Ian: Yeah. She just can't see at all now. Yes. Which is very creepy. Honestly, hers is one of the more direct, like, magical attacks in that sense. Matthew: Yes, and they are in general, they are more direct in this movie. Ian: Mm hmm. There's a little bit, that physicality leads to a little less subtlety. Matthew: And yet we get something much less physical that night when the carnival is hunting for the kids. Ian: Yes! Matthew: In the book we get their hot air balloon. There's no sign of a hot air balloon. In this movie, so we don't get the, the balloon floating over the town, looking for them and marking their roof and all this stuff, instead we get a green magical fog spreading out and, and finding their houses and giving them terrible dreams and finding out where they are. Ian: Yeah, we wind up instead with,, they try to go to bed and are instead attacked by roof decay and tarantulas. Matthew: Yes. Ian: But that is resisted by the power of the lightning rod. Matthew: I'm, I'm imagining a a service van with this, you know, advertisement on the side, you know, roof problems, tarantulas, call 555 6868. Ian: On this episode of This Old House, we're going to repair a roof and Fix some tarantula damage around some window sills. Matthew: But yeah, this is you're right, it's finally dispelled when there's a strike of lightning on the lightning rod. Ian: And I will say, that's an interesting thing. In the book, this is gonna be one of those clear comparisons, in the book, the storm Is something of the carnival. And so the wind carries the carnival's will the lightning carries the carnival's will in the movie. The wind brings information to people who need to know it to fight the carnival, right? The wind lifts up tent flaps to show flashes for characters to run in and find something in this. The storms, lightning, lightning. Dispels the carnival, the wind and the weather themself are on the opposite team in the movie, and that's such an interesting shift because it adds to characters like Tom Fury, who hasn't been captured in the same way by the carnival yet. He's been captured, but his fate is different in the movie than in the book, and his nature is different here. There is just a different his attachment to the wind and everyone else's. They've got an ally in a different way. Matthew: Yes. And the storm is used to create a ticking clock for the carnival, because you're right, Tom Fury is not transformed into one of the the carnival performers. Instead he is kidnapped and he is tortured because Dark wants him to tell them when is the storm coming and where. Ian: Yes. Matthew: Because the lightning illuminates our true nature and the storm, the rain washes away our dust. They're afraid of the storm because the storm is, when it comes is going to cut short whatever they're trying to do. And that's what Dark wants to know. So it makes a different role for Fury. It also sets up this ticking clock for Dark, that whatever he wants to do, he's got a time limit, and he doesn't know when this clock runs out. Ian: In, yeah, in the book, Tom Fury, the Light Ring Rod salesman, was re was shifted And morphed into the very mechanical dwarf. Matthew: Yes. Ian: Who was this like, useful servant to Dark. And that was his fate in that sense. And the Mr. Electro was instead Dark's partner, kind of this power source running the carnival and making it happen while Dark was the one who could wander around. And in this one instead, the, the Mr. Electro chair is the, the way to torture Tom Fury. And the dwarf is just dwarf there who works in the carnival and is a little bit more exasperated and doing his day job as that's an evil day job, but it's a day job. There's a little bit more normalcy there, which is another odd element. Matthew: And the next scenes that we get. are, are very clear and very physical and very similar to the book in that they were very, they're very straightforward scenes in the book too, which is the parade coming through town, searching for the boys and the boys hiding under the grate next to the cigar store and dark confronting Charles Halloway and having the pictures of the boys tattooed on his palms, Ian: which is so weird, Matthew: is so nicely creepy. Yeah. Ian: So nicely creepy. It's like, oh, let me remove my gloves. These jazz, it's like, these boys, evil jazz hands. I mean, that, that is an iconic look that is the poster itself. It's dark with his hands out with the picture of the boys on it. It's such a perfectly creepy moment. Matthew: But that eventually leads to Charles believing the boys and making the arrangements to meet with them after dark in the library After Ian: dark with two meanings. Matthew: Oh, yes, that's right And and we do get a simplified version Of all the research , that Charles has done. It doesn't go back into antiquity, and it doesn't get quite as metaphysical. But it's, oh, this isn't the first time the carnival's been in town. My grandfather has stuff about this in his journal. And all the terrible things, and eventually a big storm came, and that's when the carnival left. And that's happened several times in in recorded history of this town. But because we don't have an omniscient narrator, We don't go down and talk about how this has been part of human nature since humans have existed. And the carnival is an outgrowth of that. Ian: And it does mean that Charles Halloway does not get his Van Helsing moment. Not quite the same way, because honestly, in the book, Charles Holloway, like the moment this is happening, he's like, Oh, finally, my special interest and and immediately has like the clock face of books around him in this, you know, I'm prepping for things. You could almost imagine him sharpening like a, a steak to kill a vampire, kind of like. Serious mode drops over him to some extent. He doesn't have that in this. He kind of more eases into the, the hot tub of, this is creepy. No, yeah. Instead of diving in. Matthew: He doesn't get that. I've been training for this all my life. Ian: Exactly. And I, I feel like it does take a little bit away from Charles Halloway, but with the shift in tone, it's a lot more like I'm starting now, I'm figuring out what I can because my son is in danger and I won't make the same mistake again. That fatherhood core aspect is stronger in this because of that. Matthew: Yeah, just as they focused on this one pivotal point in their past, they want to set him up for a pivotal point in the future. Yeah. And so we do get the confrontation in the, the library where the kids are hiding and Charles Halloway won't tell Dark where they're hiding, but we do get more focus. on dark trying to draw out Charles by promising him youth again. Ian: Yes. Matthew: Telling him about the carousel and how we can make, we can bring you back. Let give, give you the prime of your life again, make you 30. And then essentially he sets up a ticking clock for this decision. Every moment you delay telling me what I want, that's one more year. I won't give you back. And this wonderful scene where dark has picked up. I think it's the grandfather's journal, and it's tearing pages out of them, and they burst into flame as he tears them out. Oh, you won't tell me? Well, okay, 31, that's gone. 32, 35, that's still not so bad. It's a prime of life. Nope, 35 is gone. You better tell me soon. It's wonderfully creepy and terrifying. Ian: Wonderfully creepy. And at the same time, Mr. Dark , has this long soliloquy . It really changes how Mr. Dark seems to play. He's less of just a creeping terror made of the people. He feels like he has intent. in a different way in this story. He's there, he's there kind of like, offering things to Charles in a way that seems surprising to Charles. Matthew: And that's true. And that's, it's all much more direct. And part of that is, I think it's just a change in tone. Part of it is a change in adapting it to film. But we see that overall in the way that the Carnival operates. In the, again, I'm comparing it to the book. In the book, it was more of a, The Carnival will give you what you think you want, and it will not make you happy. You think you want to be young and pretty again? Fine. But then you're going to be totally disconnected from the world in which you have spent the last 40 years. Things like that and instead in the movie it's more of a direct I will give you this but in exchange I will charge you that this is what payment I will extract I will make you beautiful, but I will strike you blind I and we see we see this the results of this in the the parade because some of the people they've already taken are in The parade you want to be surrounded by beautiful women fine You'll be surrounded by beautiful women and you'll be in the carnival as the bearded lady Yeah. You want all this money, you've accepted the thousand dollars that the carnival has given you in its prize in exchange. You're going to be part of the carnival as the, as the, the native savage, who looks exactly like the cigar store Indian from from the cigar owner's place. It's more of a transaction. It's not a, you're going to learn a lesson about what you really want. Ian: We've replaced the monkey's paw of the book with a Faustian bargain situation. Matthew: Right. Ian: Very clearly where, that trade is the core and that physicality I was describing before changes Mr. Dark from this entity of hubris to this Man of Magical Offering, and it means that his creepy nature is much more in his words and those little fire tricks and such, these smaller but intense things, instead of being this room filling, looming horror. Matthew: Right, in the book it was more, he found out what was, what caused Charles distress, and made him feel worse. And in the movie it was more, it was more, I am going to offer you something, no I'm not, I'm going to make you feel bad that way. Ian: And it also changes darks hunt for the boys a lot as we've seen as the stress gets to them Will Halloway is much more ready to go to the authorities go to the adults get the help work with that he is wanting he's reaching out to his father a lot trying to make that connection in this time of crisis while Jim who doesn't have someone to reach out for is is Is reaching into that darkness of the carnival reaching into this event and it makes Mr. Dark hunting for them and what he says to each of them as he looks for them in the the library very different because to will he's got much more of a Punishment danger. I've put your family at risk Will I'm going to get you and yet to Jim He offers this authority and power I can make you older You you can join me. This element of Jim Nightshade as what Mr. Mr. Dark does not feel as immortal in an odd way, because it makes it feel like Mr. Dark is trying to obtain Jim as an apprentice. And enact some kind of vengeance on will, Matthew: and that makes sense trying Ian: to trade the two of them in some way. It's like, Matthew: because dark does work primarily by offering you what you think you want in both versions of this, and there's not a whole lot that Will wants that he doesn't have he's got a nice life. He's a healthy boy. He's got his parents. He is Looking forward to growing up, but he's happy to have that happen in its time. Whereas Jim has so little comparatively. He's always thinking about what he wants. He's always, Jim is the one talking about, well, nobody, nobody's going to take us seriously because we're not grown ups. And my dad's going to come back someday. He is the one who wants things, which makes him a better target to be drawn in by Dark. Because Dark can offer him things. He offers him a ride in the carousel. I'll make you a strong, fine man of 20 and you'll be a grown up and people will take you seriously. You can be my partner. Ian: It almost feels like it's a, in, in the book, I'm going to make that comparison again. We kind of keep doing this audience. I apologize. We kind of warned you early. Right. In the book, Mr. Dark is an entity. Made of whatever this power is. He is an embodiment of. In the movie, Mr. Dark feels like someone who was given that power in their own bargain as part of doing that. He feels more like a vessel and less like, he feels more like a vessel and less like an embodiment. Matthew: Huh. Ian: And it, it, it gave, maybe it's that physicality again. But with the smaller actions, with the way he moves, with the way, there is this. A man with power using it. Not power taking form and creeping aspect going on, and that added to the Jim Nightshade as an apprentice, as the next vessel, as this continuation. There is something, there is a different hunger to the carnival's need for Jim. Not just to give Jim what he wants, but Jim has to be the object given to the carnival because they need him for later. Meanwhile, we don't need Will. Will doesn't have desires. Will doesn't have wants. Will is to Light's side, so we need to punish it because he's a threat to our power, and Jim could be the next holder of this power dichotomy going on. Matthew: Yeah. Ian: So much more clearly. Matthew: That's an interesting idea, that mr. Dark, centuries ago, wanted to be a, a powerful and important and respected or feared person in show business. Fine. Mm hmm. This carnival is all yours, and you never get to leave it. You're traveling forever. Ian: Exactly. There's something more about that with the way it's presented. And they do a great job making Mr. Dark creepy, but they do that in these small things, such as when he's going to catch the boys, they don't show him climbing up, they just show hands reaching up and grabbing onto each of the books, the books, not the shelves, and easing its way up in this, the close up angle. It means that your mind implies the rest of it, and it's unnatural how he can move so high up to grab the boys from the tops of the shelves in the way they showed him climbing. Matthew: He's becoming weightless and spider like when he wants to. Ian: Exactly. But he gets the boys and he, he knocks Charles Halloway out and takes the boys back to the carnival. Matthew: And he tells the Dust Witch, who's joined him in the library, Give Charles a taste of death when we see her casting a spell to slow his heart down. Not to kill him. His hand has already been damaged by the confrontation with Dark. But, I don't know if death is particularly something we've seen Charles fear, but that's what they're using essentially to, harm him further with his, his distress about his age. Ian: Yes! And so here's the moment when Charles has to face the magic being used against him and fight back. And he does so a little differently in this one. He does. He doesn't laugh at the absurdity of it, he kind of will powers himself to not, I've got stuff to do. Giving up is the wrong thing. Matthew: Yes, they, they really downplay that idea of the opposite of the evil of this carnival is joy. They feed upon sadness and despair and distress. We need to counter that with happiness and joy. Instead. It's more about willpower and and Remembering what we have to do for each other Ian: There's an aspect of like hope like the moment you lose. Hope is when the the carnival gets you Matthew: Oh, that's a that's an interesting point Ian: I didn't expect to make this comparison, but it reminded me distinctly of how the ending to the movie, Scott Pilgrim vs. The World, and the movie, and the book, Scott Pilgrim, are completely different because the main character learns a different point and pulls a different weapon. And I'm like, did Charles Halloway just pull a different weapon to fight off the darkness? In this story of the movie than he does in the book. Yeah. Is this a He There's a weird parallel there of like, the book teaches one thing, the movie teaches another. They're both accurate, but they're different ways of dealing with it. Matthew: Both valid. That's right. Ian: Both valid. I just I just didn't expect to compare something wicked this way comes to Scott Pilgrim. Matthew: Now are we going to get the Netflix animation that kind of bridges the gap? And Ian: that'd be great. Oh boy. But yeah, we see Charles kind of like pushes the Dust Witch away with just like back off. I have stuff to do. You stole my boy and I'm not messing it up this time and runs off to the carnival. And in doing so, finally does get that, like, little bit of serious mode that I've been hoping for from him. Matthew: Yes. Ian: Which is very present when he just, like, catches Mrs. Nightshade trying to wander into the carnival because of a note she got. And he's just like, Your husband's not there. Go home. Matthew: And that's just a little bit of an indication that, yep, they were going to get her too because they were going to promise her her husband. And maybe they were going to , bring her husband there or someone who was like her husband and yet she would have to pay a terrible price for it, but he saves her from that. Ian: Yeah, he saves her from that and runs in and the first place he goes is the Hall of Mirrors, which has gotten some show, but a lot less in this movie, I'd say. Matthew: Right. I don't \know that we saw much inside that before. Ian: Right. The Hall of Mirrors is just so classic Hall of Mirrors in many ways. Matthew: We did see earlier the, the bartender. Amputee football hero going into the Hall of Mirrors and seeing his reflection full and healthy and later on we see him as a kid. So he's somebody else who is like regressed to a prior point in his life but disconnected from everything else and now he's part of the carnival. Ian: Yeah. Matthew: But we see a lot of the Hall of Mirrors now that Charles is in there and this is the big, one of the big confrontation scenes. Ian: Because Mr. Dark kind of shows everyone else's torments. And then, like, he just spells out what he's doing to everybody. Yes. Very clearly, very Bond villain esque. Ha ha ha ha ha. Matthew: No, Mr. Holloway, I expect you to collapse in despair. Ian: Exactly! Because he shows Charles the moment of not saving Will in the river. On loop, and we don't get like the ages in different directions stuff you hear in the book and such. It's a lot simpler, it's a lot more overlaid footage tricks, but it's still an effective version for this version of the story. Matthew: It is, and we sort of got the promise of youth again previously in the confrontation with the dark. So we don't get that again here in the Hall of Mirrors, instead we get him, him collapsing in despair and then being saved when his son finds him and says, I love you, dad. And that's the, that breaks the spell. Ian: Yeah, it's like, oh, you were too old to do anything then and you're just going to keep getting older. So you'll never be able to do anything. Your son hates you for it. I love you, dad. Oh, he doesn't. Punch, Matthew: and that's all it takes. Ian: It's got a very Doctor Who or Twilight Zone moment kind of feel in that Hall of Mirrors. Both in terms of the budget of the scene and style, but also the world is telling the absolute opposite story than what the bad guys telling you and you just have to observe it kind of element. Matthew: And we also get Tom Fury turning into an action hero warrior. Ian: Yes, because Tom, the storm arrives. Matthew: Yes. Ian: And it strikes it strikes the carnival and strikes into the chair that they put Tom Fury in. And instead of roasting him, it charges one of his lightning rods with glowing green energy. And he pries himself out of the electric chair, grabbing this still lightning infused rod. And he just, barrels into the Hall of Mirrors and stabs the witch with some sort of glowing lightning blade. Matthew: Yes, I mean, Tom Fury is suddenly living up to his name. He's like Zeus. And previously, the beautiful woman, the witch, has been the The carrot, the, the torture was the stick and, and she as his bride was the carrot as they were attempting to persuade him to tell them exactly when the storm was going to come. And now he is he's the one who takes down the witch. Ian: And, we save Will, but they need to go save Jim, who's been put onto the carousel. Matthew: Yes, and this is where we get that, that last carousel scene. Yeah. Ian: As the carousel starts up and is going to age Jim up you know, Charles runs in with Will, and they pull Jim off of it, if I remember correctly. Matthew: Right, they get him off the carousel fairly easily, just by reaching out and grabbing him, Ian: but But Mr. Dark walks in from the center onto the carousel to try to stop them. Matthew: Right, so he's now and he gets, like, his his piece of clothing stuck on one of the horses. And meanwhile the lightning is striking the carousel and causing it to go haywire and run forward Ian: faster and faster. Matthew: So we get to see Mr. Dark aged a thousand years or whatever it is until he's practically dust. Ian: And that's one of those things where he's a lot more mortal. He's a lot more vessel in that way, right? Where the fact that this hits him and ages him and the fact that the storm is on our hero's side, not on the carnival's side in this version of the story. The whole, Oh, no, Jim's dead. No, he's not. He's a whole lot shorter. He is ending of this movie because there's not as much to do. Right. There's a little bit more like, no, no, you've got stuff here. You've got family. It's just not your dad. I'm here. We don't, we don't count him out yet. He's fine. Be happy, enjoy your time with him. Laugh and be delighted. Matthew: And this is where we get the little bit of the, they feed on despair, so we have to be happy and laugh and dance around. Mm-Hmm, , yeah. It's, it's kind of, it seems like an afterthought and it's not explained very well. It just seems like. Dad's been through a lot. Yeah, Ian: Dad's had a rough day, but he cares about me, and he cares about Jim. We're both his sons in that sense. Jim's just like, oh, oh, you think of me as a son? Thank you. Is that guy aging to death? Let's get out of here. Matthew: And we get some cool early 80s effects of this giant whirlwind in the sky that pulls all the bits of the carnival up to it. Ian: I'm sorry. What? We talked about the storm being on our hero side this time. That includes cleanup duty. Yes, the tornado. There's a giant tornado that just picks up the carnival and erases it and it's gone. And that's kind of the end of the film as as Jim Will and Charles head back into town and it's all good. Matthew: We get a little more narration, which also clarifies if it wasn't clear at the beginning, the bit of narration we got at the beginning was. Was will Remembering this from when he was a kid and talking about how this was we made memories are going to be told as long as Along as men tell stories about fathers. They loved Ian: And we get to see Charles And playing the harmonica and walking with both Will and Jim. And he's got more pep, he's not giving in to old age the way he had. He's, he's got more pep, he's showing, he's, he's holding onto Will tightly, but he's showing what he's doing and kind of playing with Jim's more adventurous, active nature as well. Yep. He's treating them both well, and they're both there with him. And it ends on that very nice, bright, happy note. Matthew: And Jim, just with the body language and such, Jim seems to be happy to be with him and spending time with them, as opposed to That slight bit of resentment that Will has his dad, and Jim does not. Ian: Exactly. We saw earlier, really early, this is going back, Jim always was bringing up his dad whenever Charles Halloway was around. Kind of trying to, like, I've got one of those too. Right, yeah. No, now he's like, no, I've got, Charles is acting as dad, I can treat that, I can, I have a father figure. Matthew: Yeah, Charles was, before that, Charles was nothing but a reminder about the fact that his dad wasn't there. Yeah. Ian: I think we're going to be leading into final questions in a moment there. Matthew: Yeah, I think we're leading into our final questions. But before that, stay tuned for those final questions. But first If you are enjoying the Intermillennium Media Project podcast, if you want more of it, please go to immproject. com. That's where you'll find all of our back episodes and where you will find a link to our Patreon if you want to support us there. And you'll also get more bonus audio content link to our store. If you want t shirts and coffee mugs and all kinds of other fun things you can find those there as well And you'll also find our contact page. You can reach us on discord. You can reach us By email you can reach us by genuine physical u. s. Mail just like In the time of something wicked this way comes don't send us any carnival flyers Well, actually, you know send send us carnival flyers. They're cool. Yeah, they're cool But we'd love to hear from you there We'd like to hear from you about what you thought of this movie what you thought of this book And any any other suggestions you have for things we might treat on the podcast Ian: Exactly. We'd love to hear it. We'd love to, you'll share. We'd love to just, you know, chat, chat with us about things we've watched and things we have not yet. Matthew: And if you do write to us, just let us know if it's okay to read it on the podcast. We'd love to do that. Ian, where can people find you? Ian: I can be found as Itemcrafting most places. Be that my Itemcrafting Etsy shop, or Itemcrafting Live on Twitch. I'm going to be streaming more games, especially here in the spooky season. So, come on by, say hi, you might catch me playing something, you might catch me making something. Matthew: And you can find me at ByMatthewPorter. com, that's where you'll find links to whatever I'm doing online, and that includes , By MatthewPorter. com on YouTube where you will find some travel stuff and a whole lot of movie and movie theater reviews. Mm hmm. So So Final questions for the movie Something Wicked This Way Comes. Yeah. Screen or no screen? Ian: As fun as it was, this movie didn't grab me as much as I hoped it would. And I mean this in a very I have a very odd litmus test for that. I should not have felt as okay as I did to pause this movie in the middle of Mr. Dark in the library and go get myself a peanut butter and jelly sandwich as I did. The fact that that scene, as creepy as it was, it was okay to pause and get myself a sandwich, I felt like it wasn't a good sign for the film. And so I'm saying a no screen just because it does not hit as hard as it has promised to it was fun. It was interesting, but it does not land as solidly. It does not stick the landing. And I want it to be able to do better. If you want to put this movie on in the background of your Halloween party, as part of whatever your, your, your set is, that's great. It's great for that sort of stuff. But as a children's horror film, it's not great. And honestly, I don't think it fits with what people are looking for in this modern era as much. Matthew: I have to agree. I think there are some things that are done so well, some of the casting is great, but as a film to sit down and watch it beginning to end, it is not that compelling. So I think you're right that putting it on as background video for a Halloween party, that could be really cool. Just skipping around to see some of the particularly interesting scenes, that can be really cool. Ian: Mr. Dark and his evil jazz hands. Matthew: Yes, but I really don't recommend it as a screen if you're looking to sit down and watch a movie. Yeah, Ian: which is kind of disappointing. Yeah. It has so much promise and then didn't quite Matthew: And that brings us very nicely to our second question, which is a little complicated given the fact that this is an adaptation of a beloved novel, revive, reboot or rest in peace, revive would be something within the same continuity like a sequel. Ian: I can't really see that working. Matthew: No, me neither, Ian: especially with what this does, which is kind of de-ancient-ify. the, the dark evil of the carnival. It makes it harder to say, Oh, show us the early days of the carnival. Show us the, show us the previous times when the carnival ran through the town. No, I can't. The carnival is a little too much this object, this thing. It doesn't have that looming nature in the same way. But my response is reboot. Matthew: Yes, Ian: or readapt, I guess is more specific. I think there's certain things about the visuals that this movie did right. And I think there's plenty that this did wrong. And I think the book showed so much promise and the fact that this movie worked in the ways it did shows that it could have been adapted well, which is odd to say for a screenplay written by the author to say that it didn't adapt as well as it should have. Yeah. But. In that same way, the author knows what's coming. They didn't adapt it the way someone who starts fresh churning through a piece of media and turning it into a thing will do. Matthew: And someone whose career focus is putting things on screen. Ian: Exactly. You, we mentioned before the budget for this was about 20 million, it only made 8. 4 in box office. This was a flop. Matthew: Yep. Ian: But that also means it's not like this is a grand staple of, of the adaptation that would prevent the other one in comparison. No. And I feel like modern CGI would do wonders. Especially because you can lean creepier nowadays than you used to be able to. This is a certain kind of, I want to call it, you know, looming creepy horror for kids. And this is the sort of stuff that I also saw the tail end of in my youth. Goosebumps books and such, which didn't draw me in, but drew a lot of people. It has that same sort of feel. Modern children's horror has gotten so much weirder and darker. Yes. Modern, modern children's horror is, you know, Five Nights at Freddy's, bodies of dead kids stuffed into animatronics and possessing the spirits of those in order to continue the murder rampage. It's so much weirder. Matthew: Even for younger audiences, we are 15 years after Coraline, the movie. Yeah. There is more you can do with horror for kids than you would in the 80s. Ian: And the CGI that we've got, the video editing techniques we've got, I think actually will lend themselves better to this kind of creepy than we have. Show me, the library scene. Even take the same library scene out of this movie. But add some computer generated shadows on the wall behind Mr. Dark when he moves past the lamp. Matthew: Yes. Ian: That are not his shadow, but are something bigger and twisted and creepier. And that same scene will have that unreality, that de physicality of this unnatural thing. in a way that the book had, because the book was always just telling you, and the movie didn't, because the movie showed you it wasn't there. I think you could do, if you take this movie as a, as a, as a review of what you're okay to chop out without overdoing it, And then re go through the book and re build a screenplay out of the book using the movie itself as a lens for knowing what you can and cannot do. You could come out the other side with a brilliant, brilliant creepy horror. It would be like The Ring for children in the right way. Matthew: And in addition, we tend to think, well, in animation, we often will talk about This is something that is, it's, it's targeted for kids, but there are things that are going to go over the heads of the kids that the adults are going to think are really funny, so you can watch it with your family and everybody's going to enjoy it. We don't talk about that in horror very much, but this has the opportunity to be the equivalent in horror, in that there are horrifying things, there, the, the scares for kids. And then there are the scary things that are going to go over the kids heads but are going to really hit for grown ups. Yeah. When I, I was saying last episode, when I first read this book, the situation of, of Charles Halloway didn't make a big impact on me. Now that I, when I re, re read the book, a few years older than Charles Halloway's supposed to be in the book, That hit very differently And this had elements of horror for for grown ups and for kids And I think you could do that in an adaptation in a way that I don't really think has been done Much before maybe stranger things has some aspects of that Ian: stranger things has some aspects Yeah, Matthew: and I do think that this could be adapted like you're saying with modern filmmaking modern techniques modern Sensibilities about horror this could be made into a new movie. It could also be made into a limited a TV series to give you some space to examine the way in which this carnival doesn't change the deal on giving you what you want, but gives you what you want and shows you that it's not what you really need. Ian: Yeah, we've seen the Disney version of Something Wicked This Way Comes. I feel like I'm asking for the A24 Pictures version of Something Wicked This Way Comes. Matthew: Yes. Ian: And that would work. Matthew: So I would, I would very much like a reboot of this. Ian: Yes. So that's where my, that's where my vote lands. Yep. Matthew: So, this has been a fun Halloween season. Ian: It has! Creepy and interesting and Matthew: Very spooky. Ian: Yeah. Plenty of Bradberry ness all over. Ha ha ha! I yeah. Matthew: Hmm. That's a valid word. That's cromulent. I like it. Ian: Okay. Oh, good. Yay. Matthew: This, I, I like this time of year because it really gives us a reason to delve into some of these things that we, We explore through fiction because they're important to us. Ian: Yes. There's a depth there. It's important. Matthew: But next episode, we'll be on to other things. But we will be back in a couple of weeks with more tales of media from the 20th century. Ian: Absolutely. And in the meantime, go find something new to watch.