[00:00:00] Mr. Miyagi: Must make sacred pact. I promise teach karate that my part. You promise learn. I say, you do. No question. [00:00:21] Daniel: Hey, what kind of belt do you have? [00:00:23] Mr. Miyagi: Canvas, JC Penny, $3.98. [00:00:35] Matthew: Hello and welcome to another episode of the IMMP podcast from the Inter Millennium Media Project. My name is Matthew Porter. [00:00:43] Ian: I'm Ian Porter. [00:00:45] Matthew: I'm his dad. He's my son. And we've returned to the eighties for another movie. [00:00:52] Ian: Absolutely. Remember if the podcast at any point stops sounding proper, just rub your hands together really fast and press them against the device you're using to listen. It'll fix it immediately. [00:01:03] Matthew: We've gone back once again to that amazing year of 1984. [00:01:07] Ian: Oh boy. I, I, I still wanna like, do the mathematical, review and figure out like what weird wavelength of cinema happens where there's these burst years that are so great. But this is one of those years that I think we've had a couple of things from this year, haven't we? [00:01:25] Matthew: Oh, so many. So many. And I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that that's like the year that I was 18 and watching a whole lot of movies. That's just a coincidence. [00:01:35] Ian: I agree. Like, like your, your irony and, uh, sarcasm there is true. Like, oh, can't ignore that. But I'll also say there are a lot of movies. From this year that have had a long, long impact on culture. [00:01:56] Matthew: Yep. [00:01:56] Ian: Disproportionate from the group that was in their youth at the time. There's just something about some of these years that did hit everywhere [00:02:07] Matthew: and those years, they do come along maybe once or twice a decade, don't they? [00:02:11] Ian: It's like, I don't quite know what the, the alignment was. But this one, I mean, this is the year that had Ghostbusters. [00:02:19] Matthew: Yep. [00:02:19] Ian: Temple of Doom Foot Loose. And the Karate Kid. [00:02:26] Matthew: We figured we're still in our martial arts, sequence here, beginning with Lizzie McGuire and, most recent episodes we've talked about the series Kung Fu. And, uh, last time the movie Enter the Dragon. So we had to circle back around to the Karate Kid [00:02:45] Ian: of course. Yeah. This is of course a movie that I'd seen before. Sometimes we've got things that, completely unknown to me. Nah, nah, I know this one, but it's great. It's great to get to go back, I'd say. [00:02:56] Matthew: Yeah. Was starring Ralph Macchio and Pat Morita and Elizabeth Shue. And on the one hand, this is a very formulaic sports and mentor movie. It's also an odd coming of age movie, but it's also a lot more complex than that, I think. [00:03:15] Ian: I agree. okay. First things first, especially coming back to it, the thing that is the easiest to forget about the Karate Kid is proportionally. There is a lot of kid per unit of karate. [00:03:33] Matthew: What's the kid to karate ratio? [00:03:36] Ian: Yes. But that, that coming of age story and the amount we just get of Daniel's life is so, so much larger in the film. And that honestly is part of what makes its tone so effective. [00:03:53] Matthew: And that is, that's the way in which it is perhaps first a coming of age movie. 'cause we've got this young man, he's in high school, he is being forced to move from his home in New Jersey to California. Mm-hmm. Because of his mom's job. And it's the, fish out of water, he's out of place. He's just kind of learning who he is. And his life is turned upside down by this. And yet at the same time, he's got a fresh start. He meets a girl, kind of becomes his first girlfriend. All these milestones in life. So there is a lot of Daniel's life and it's just a story of him growing up over the course of this summer. [00:04:33] Ian: Exactly. [00:04:34] Matthew: Or the course of this Fall. [00:04:35] Ian: Yeah. [00:04:36] Matthew: This whole movie's like two months, which is amazing. [00:04:40] Ian: It's wild. That is the most ridiculous part of this entire film. But yeah, it is about Daniel growing up and part of that is learning karate from the, handyman. Mr. Miyagi, who is such a different character than I remembered in some ways. [00:05:02] Matthew: Oh really? How so? [00:05:03] Ian: Yeah. Mr. Miyagi is portrayed in popular culture with a much more, grounded and wise attitude. And he's got that, but there's so much more like, ah, yeah, I've got a bit of a trickster in me. I'm getting through this. You, I'm gonna go talk to those people. No, you're right. We should punch them. Let me teach you how to punch. No, actually, let me teach you everything but punching first. 'cause that's the imp important part. But it's, it's like, no, actually yeah, those guys need to be taken down a peg. Let me help. [00:05:39] Matthew: And, and the reason he needs Mr. Miyagi's help is that he's on the wrong side of this gang. That's as clear a term as we can use this gang in his school. But it's the gang of people who are on the soccer team, but who also all are at the same Karate Dojo. The Cobra Kai. Dojo. [00:05:58] Ian: Cobra Kai Dojo!, [00:05:58] Matthew: And he's on the wrong side of them, partly because he, the girl that he's now dating is, or, or wanting to date, is the girl who just broke up with the leader of this gang. But also Daniel contributes to this somewhat by getting himself in their way and have pulling pranks to get even and things like that. But he's, he's essentially their target and they really kind of brutally mess with him and he needs help. Yeah. And his, his idea is he studied a little bit of karate at the Y back in New Jersey, and uh, but he wants to learn how to defend himself and eventually he winds up talking more with Mr. Miyagi, who helps him out of one of these fights. [00:06:45] Ian: Mm-hmm. [00:06:46] Matthew: Because, Mr. Miyagi knows karate. [00:06:49] Ian: Uh, okay. The Mr. Miyagi fight scene is amazing. Yeah. In just the like, yo, we're gonna, we're gonna go, we're the gang, Bobby, Tommy, Jimmy, and Dutch, which, which sounds a little bit more like Inky Binky, Pinky and Clyde , from Pacman than I expected when I read them out in the line. But it's like, we're gonna beat him up against the fence, and Mr. Miyagi just jumps the fence and fights back, takes out two of them at once, and I'm like, oh, th this fight seems very different than I remember. [00:07:22] Matthew: So he comes along and eats the fruit and suddenly they're the targets. [00:07:27] Ian: Thank you. There's just also something about like, the entire setup of the Cobra Kai Dojo. It's like, I am sorry. Your group is named Snake Fist and everyone is always angry in your place. [00:07:42] Matthew: Yes. [00:07:42] Ian: You ever seen that? Uh, there's a, there's a meme. That, uh, people use from like a British comedy special of just one person turning to the other. Are we the baddies? I just think that it's like everything about them is written most bluntly, like we are the antagonists. Right? We are here to antagonize. [00:08:04] Matthew: Led by the former military guy, John Kreese, played by Martin Cove, whose, whose instructions for the students at his dojo are strike first. Strike hard. No mercy. Mercy is for the weak. We, we, we accept and inflict pain. It's like this is a cult. [00:08:25] Ian: This is a cult. I have seen bad guys that are supposed to be leading like gigantic, unethical military experiments who would tell this man to slow down? It's like they'll walk in from another movie. It's like. Chill. Like, oh. But I, I will say that there's a very good piece of, we were describing, this is a deeper movie. It's actually a very, very tightly written, tightly built story. Because the idea of the, the lesson of, in karate, the, the bond between teacher and student is not just movement, but it's also mentality [00:09:09] Matthew: mm-hmm. [00:09:10] Ian: Is very clear. Because this group of bullies does get multiple points where we see them almost assess their actions and they get pulled back to this aggressive stance. And then once we see who their instructor is, we find that that's a, a mirroring. That is a mimicry of an attitude. They're being presented. [00:09:37] Matthew: Right. [00:09:38] Ian: In the same way Daniel is dealing with a lot of things and in learning from Miyagi, he, he learns kind of that, yeah, there's gonna be a lot of things to deal with, but don't let it get you down. Live life, believe in yourself. Be mindful and thoughtful and you'll make it through even the toughest things. Because as we learn, Daniel's going through tough things for a kid. Miyagi's gone through horribly difficult things as an adult, but there is that this mentality has kept me from completely breaking down. We do see Miyagi have some, some breakdown low moments himself, but he's able to always get back up, and that's the lesson that Daniel learns. That idea of you learn. You don't just learn how to block and punch. You learn how to live, you learn how to process mm-hmm. From a teacher in something like this. Honestly, that's why this is like, it doesn't have to be karate, but karate is very well suited to that kind of learning from life lesson. [00:10:52] Matthew: And that I think is one of the things that saves this movie from what it could have been. It could very much have been the very simple, superficial, magical Asian movie where there's this wise old man whose reason for existence is to help the white boy learn how to live. But they give Miyagi depth and Pat Morita's performance gives Miyagi depth. And you're right, the script talks about, what kind of life he has led, what things has he suffered and we learned this later in the movie, while he was serving in , the United States Army, his wife and their unborn son were in a US concentration camp for Japanese, Americans and died, in complications in childbirth. Mm-hmm. So he has seen such tragedy in the face of such willingness to serve others that uh, it gives his character depth. And it's not just that, it's not just, oh, we've got this one little point about this character we see throughout. He is somebody who, who waffles. He does not wanna really get in very involved in Daniel's stuff until he thinks about it again and realizes he has to. [00:12:07] Ian: And also when he goes to go talk to someone, it's like, oh, the kids are fighting with each other. I'll talk to someone, man to man. Oh, this other guy's a jerk to me as well. Now it's both of our honors get, get in the car. Daniel San. [00:12:21] Matthew: Yeah. So he he has stakes too. He has motivations other than he exists to serve Daniel. [00:12:26] Ian: exactly. [00:12:27] Matthew: And, and one of the things he's getting, we realize he, he was expecting to be a father and never was. And he's been alone for decades now. And he now essentially has a son that he never had and somebody to help and teach and pass along what he learned from his father. We repeatedly come back to the fact that he learned so much from his father. He learned fishing from his father. His father was a fisherman. He, on Okinawa, he learned Okinawan karate from his father, and he has not had anyone to pass it along to until he meets Daniel. [00:13:00] Ian: there is a lot of work put in by the director. John G. Avildsen, who had previously worked on things like Rocky. There's some, there's some very much like how do you show a lot of life using film in that sense? [00:13:19] Matthew: Mm-hmm. [00:13:20] Ian: Some of the shots are wider than you'd expect, but that means that you can kind of see this cared for, but older and a little rougher on the edges environment that they've done all this set design and such and there's a lot of that like showing Miyagi as someone who got just kind of halted his life was there, he was doing stuff, he's got skill, but there's not a lot of forward progression until something pushed him out of his little rut. That's environmental. And that reinforces it because we're seeing this place, the condition his life is in. And there's the classic bit of, teaching Daniel by having him wax cars and sand floors and such. But the fun thing about that is it's not like, I think the piece that's also forgotten is after that gets done, the cars are clean, the floors are sanded, the fence is painted, and Miyagi's environment is more vibrant. [00:14:27] Matthew: Yes. ' [00:14:28] Ian: Because of Daniel having done these things, learning from him. And there's that interesting bit of like place as character. The reflection of these environments. And that works because the, the set design and the direction help reinforce what we're describing here, which is why it almost feels like they don't tell you that, but you pick it up easily enough. [00:14:51] Matthew: Yeah. [00:14:51] Ian: That's watching this film [00:14:52] Matthew: a great point. It's as if all of this was just waiting for Miyagi to have someone to share it with, and suddenly it comes to life. [00:15:01] Ian: Yes. [00:15:02] Matthew: That's great. [00:15:04] Ian: There's so many layered pieces of metaphor in this, the LaRusso family's conditions are a little, are are having a rough time. The car that's not working quite right is such a, clear moment. But that works because. It's this, oh, we're trying to make it where we're going and we'll put in some extra , elbow grease to make it happen. Attitude that both Daniel, who's willing to do all of these things and keep up with his school and everything else, and his mom, who's constantly working late nights and such, their car reflects the family attitude. [00:15:42] Matthew: Right. [00:15:43] Ian: They're always struggling. Oh, get out and push. [00:15:45] Matthew: It's always working, but they're always struggling. [00:15:48] Ian: Exactly. All of these things, though, the places match the people to some extent. [00:15:53] Matthew: and it also helps, the plot somewhat that the Cobra Kai is not this monolithic. Lockstep, evil group. There are variations among the personalities we see. Johnny is kind of their leader and he's the guy who's really got it in for, for Daniel. But there are others who they, they have been trained in this Cobra Kai environment of the strike hard and no mercy, but they still try to talk Johnny back from being too extreme. You know, they rough up Daniel and punch him around a bit, and at least one of them is saying, okay, Johnny, he's had enough, and Johnny's not having any of that. I'll, I'll decide what he's saying. [00:16:31] Ian: Exactly. Yeah. [00:16:33] Matthew: And that's because Johnny has all these, these personal things about, about the girlfriend, Ali, played by Elizabeth Shue, , that he's taking it beyond just the philosophy of Cobra Kai. [00:16:45] Ian: Johnny and his gang Johnny in general, though, he is. I don't know what to think about him because he is the character that just gets in everyone's face the most and he is the fastest moving character in some ways where it's like, oh, oh, I will, I will accelerate straight into physical violence. Yeah. Very quickly. And of course there's someone doing something, uh, you know, that they're not supposed to in this place. It's Johnny, you know, he almost feels sometimes like he stepped out of a, a simpler film at times. The way he jumps the plot forward. [00:17:29] Matthew: He is, he's, he's very much a straightforward high school bad guy character who is, you know, far more rage and hormones than sense. Um, but William Zabka does a good job with that role, given what the role is. [00:17:45] Ian: Yeah. He, he does a great job with it. And there's a large amount of weight put on a single line that I can't tell if it was said in person or dubbed in later. Yeah. Which is the, eh, Daniel, you're all right at the very end of the film, which is like, it feels like the emotional equivalent of grabbing a character by the back of the shirt and yanking them from a cliff. It's like, hi, I'm almost irredeemable. Okay. Maybe I'm not. [00:18:16] Matthew: Yeah. Here's a little drop of redemption here. That's a good point. I bet that was ADR in afterward because, uh, spoiler, the movie ends with the, to karate tournament in which, uh, which Daniel somehow wins and. In the finals against Johnny and Johnny as he, the trophy's being handed over, says to Daniel, you're all right. Like, I don't, no, no. Where do you come from? , the Johnny we saw in the rest of this movie would not have said that. [00:18:48] Ian: Yeah. The Johnny from the rest of this movie would find the one that ADR'd that in and beat him up in the parking lot because how dare he that that's such a, it's like, oh, that is a hard pivot. And yet the fact that Johnny is such a generic and omnipresent villain and the fact that, , the Cobra kai sensei is such an awful, you should know better, bad guy teacher. Make them a wonderful. Two part looming threat. [00:19:23] Matthew: And you mentioned, uh, the fact that this director worked on Rocky. This is definitely a post rocky sports and fighting movie in terms of its structure. Oh, absolutely. In terms of, its the way the final scenes are shot and all. It's also very much a post the Empire Strikes Back movie because there are plenty of co comparisons that are made between Mr. Miyagi and Yoda. [00:19:48] Ian: Oh yeah. [00:19:49] Matthew: Good. They're good point. They are not out of place. And yet, as we were saying, there's more complexity to Mr. Miyagi than, uh, than that it's, he's not just a Yoda parody or yo a Yoda pastiche. And part of it is the writing part of it is, yeah. Amazing performance by Pat Morita. [00:20:06] Ian: The, the performance is fantastic on that. But yeah, you're right. There's definitely some similarities [00:20:12] Matthew: and the fact that he has such a sense of humor is part of what carries that you get the impression that he's been so solitary for so long and he amuses himself. He's kind of retreated into a tranquility with his bonsai and his other pastimes, and yet he's got a sense of humor and makes himself chuckle. And he enjoys the fact that he now has somebody to share this with. [00:20:37] Ian: The fact that the first thing they do together is Bonsai and Daniel is like, okay, I understand why you're doing that. I'll do Daniel's actually not as, not as thick head of head of a kid as some protagonist of similar films. He's actually already got some good sense of self and he is already got some of that foundational willingness to put himself aside and learn that is necessary, which is part of why this movie can imply that he got this far in two months. [00:21:16] Matthew: Yes. [00:21:16] Ian: Daniel's like Dan Daniel's actually not a brand new beginner. He has the basics. He just needs that last bit to get him into fighting shape. [00:21:28] Matthew: Right? He's got the interest. He took a class or two at the Y he's not just being introduced to the idea of karate at the very beginning of this. And yet, uh, and, and also, uh, Ralph Macchio steps up with a performance that can meet Pat Morita where he is. And, uh, they, they play very well together in that way. I think for its time. This was one of the earlier real pop culture movies that introduced some variety of Japanese culture. In this case, they make very specific, uh, point about the fact that, uh, Mr. Miyagi is Okinawan, and this is Okinawan culture, which is not Main Island, Japan culture. Um, but it's the first kind of glimpse that I think a lot of American audiences got of that outside of world War II movies, which is going to give you a very different view of things. It's also one of the first real big pop cultural portrayals of martial arts outside of what we're seeing as the kind of over the top laughable martial arts movies from, from Hong Kong and from China that showed up on TV in Saturday afternoons with bad dubs. [00:22:40] Ian: Yeah. Which they kind of make a reference to [00:22:43] Matthew: Yeah. [00:22:43] Ian: Of, uh, oh, you watch too much tv. [00:22:47] Matthew: Yeah. [00:22:48] Ian: Being, being one of Miyagi's , comments against, , Daniel early on, it's like, nah, no, you're watching too much TV kid. But yeah, this is a, this is like enter The dragon had come out almost 10 years before. So you've gotta set it in that cultural context. And I think that's also another wonderful reason why the, the scene where Daniel goes to check on Miyagi and we find him mourning very drunk and in his Air Force uniform probably had much more impact then than it does to me now. [00:23:24] Matthew: Mm-hmm. [00:23:25] Ian: Because this is a, oh, that's an American Air Force uniform. Oh. These pieces have extra level of hit because of how little depiction some of those aspects had had. For me, that's a known piece that has popped up in other pieces of media and culture. That is a point that popular culture has talked about other places already. So it's not a brand new conversation in the same way. I can see that here having much more punch. [00:23:55] Matthew: And in 1984, that was really before a lot of the US and certainly the US government had really come to terms with what it did to Japanese Americans in the 1940s. There's been official recognition of what was done, what was wrong. And I bet this movie was the first a lot of people learned that these camps existed. [00:24:15] Ian: Might have been. Yeah. [00:24:17] Matthew: And as part of this, kind of portraying these cultural aspects, there's one detail that I really like in this movie. Once he learns how to pronounce the name correctly, Daniel is always referring to his teacher as, Mr. Miyagi. And Mr. Miyagi is always referring to his student as Daniel San. They're each using, they are each using the honorific way of addressing someone from their own culture. So Mr. Miyagi is, giving Daniel respect and expressing that from where he is as an Okinawan American. And Daniel is showing respect to Mr. Miyagi the way he would he would respect any teacher in, his American culture. And I like the fact that they, they always are blending those. They, they are each, it's not, Daniel is becoming Okinawan because he's being taught by Mr. Miyagi. Yeah, it's not Mr. Miyagi is fully a hundred percent, culturally American. Because he has been in America and served in the military in all of these. They still are the unique people. They are, and they use that to show the respect for one another. [00:25:30] Ian: That is a huge point. It's subtle, but it adds a lot of weight to all of these moments, and I'm with you. It's, it's one of those excellent pieces. It is also nice that, you know, in the early on, he keeps on messing up. Miyagi has to correct him at the very end. Daniel's the one correcting someone else first. You know, Miyagi, it's like, yes, correct. The announcer for the tournament to get it right. It's like, oh, let me fix that. Which also is like, no, no. It's like I, I respect it enough that I'm making sure he's given respect elsewhere too, on that. [00:26:06] Matthew: Yep. [00:26:07] Ian: That is one of those wonderful, subtle moments of evolution across them. [00:26:12] Matthew: So we have all of this, we have the setup such that when it's getting untenable the way he's being beaten up by these kids from Cobra Kai. And Mr. Miyagi is saying, well, fighting should be avoided. We learn karate so that we don't have to fight. You should go and talk to their teacher because he as a teacher should be somebody who, has honor and will instruct his students appropriately. And after a little back and forth, Daniel convinces Mr. Miyagi to go with him. And they have this confrontation. And that's where you, you mentioned earlier that this is where Miyagi sees that the Cobra Kai Sensei is not really somebody who treats others with respect. But he makes a deal. [00:27:04] Ian: Yeah. He makes a deal of like, and don't, don't beat up my student for two months. We'll fight at the tournament. Like, like men. [00:27:11] Matthew: Yes. We're gonna, we're gonna, you want, you wanna fix this by fighting? We'll fix it by fighting, but not here at your dojo. That's not fair. We'll meet at the tournament in December, and this is on November 1st that they're having this conversation. [00:27:28] Ian: Yeah. [00:27:31] Matthew: And, and also they make the deal. Until then, uh, you've, your guys have to leave Daniel alone so he can train. And with a laugh, the Cobra kai Sensei, uh, says, oh sure. But if either of you don't show up, it's open season on both of you. [00:27:48] Ian: Yeah. Which is also interesting because, , both the Cobra Kai Sensei and Mr. Miyagi are former military. [00:27:55] Matthew: Yes. That's [00:27:56] Ian: a great point. So what you do also get is this, you know, this World War ii, facing off against Special Forces Vietnam, and talk about very different military attitudes between the two of them. There's this little under underlying, like, you've lost your way. Yeah. You're not the same group I was part of. [00:28:18] Matthew: So then what we get is the whole middle of the movie is training. Most of that middle of the movie is training. And we see Mr. Miyagi now, they, they enter this pact of teacher and student. You do what I say without question. I will teach you karate. You will learn karate. [00:28:36] Ian: And there's the classic, wax the cars, sand to the floors, wax on, wax off. I do love how, how, the entire building, frustration from Daniel is actually very quickly resolved about that. [00:28:51] Matthew: Yes. [00:28:53] Ian: It's not this big like growing frustration. There's this like, okay, okay, okay. This is a little frustrating. I'm just gonna go talk to him. I ain't learning anything. Yes, you are. Let me show you. Oh, I get it now. It is really swift scene fixing that. [00:29:12] Matthew: It's. It's, it's kind of fun in that it's, it is ex exaggerated and ridiculous. The fact that he's learned so much in such a short period of time. [00:29:23] Ian: Mm-hmm. [00:29:23] Matthew: And I, I, I will accept movies being exaggerated and ridiculous, but it's not completely out of left field. The idea that Mr. Miyagi is having him do these chores, but having him do them in very, very specific ways with very specific movements. Mm-hmm. And coming and correcting him when he's not doing the movements correctly and the direction in which he has to make the circles while he is, uh, waxing the cars. And, and the opposite circles when he's sanding the floor and the way he has to move his arms when he's painting the fence. And what he's doing is he's getting in these thousands and thousands and thousands of reps to build that muscle memory. Now, muscle memory does require time, not just reps. And there's a lot of muscle memory and, and repetition in karate training. But for the sake of a movie, I will accept this and it's fun. [00:30:15] Ian: Oh, absolutely. And honestly, it does a good job of something that's actually true about, you know, martial arts, which is the difference of like practice it slow to then do it fast. It's like if you can do this same motion steadily and precisely, then doing it swiftly will have the impact you need is actually very true about like movement and sports and that sort of thing in general. [00:30:40] Matthew: Yeah. [00:30:41] Ian: Which makes it a better example than I expected. Popular culture has has, you know, taken those scenes and spread them, into the popular zeitgeist. They are, they are something people know. Daniel picks up on them as fast as someone who has heard of the reference and they, that's because they make some sense. Which is why you can, you can believe, okay, two months, it's like, okay, for real world, six months, and you might see some good improvements. A movie two months. [00:31:19] Matthew: Yeah. He learns a whole lot of defensive movements. He learns a whole lot of balance. I don't know that we really see him learning punches much, do we? We see him learning some kicks. Uh, [00:31:32] Ian: we, we see him learning some kicks, which are much more difficult with his balance. [00:31:36] Matthew: Right. [00:31:37] Ian: And Miyagi like correct him and shows him a punch at one point. [00:31:43] Matthew: Mm-hmm. [00:31:44] Ian: But Daniel already had something of a punch, so it was a little bit more of a no no, in all your body put the force, the one, like all your body force in the one inch, like it's more of a correcting a. Off technique instead of teaching him entirely. Okay. That's where the, like Daniel was not an absolute uninformed student. [00:32:11] Matthew: Mm-hmm. [00:32:12] Ian: Daniel did not start as a white belt. Daniel started somewhere in the middle and needed a teacher who could push him past the ne the next steps, but he didn't actually start from the beginning. [00:32:26] Matthew: That's a good point. He had a foundation that Mr. Miyagi could work with. and correct. [00:32:31] Ian: Yeah. And, and, and we saw early on with his bicycle, you know, riding with some of the, some of the, like the lifting and the stuff, stuff we were doing, Daniel was not a. Was not someone without physicality in terms of his, like he had muscle definition, he had some, some strength. He was a bit of a, a noodly armed kid in terms of just build, that's just Ralph Macchio at the time. And they don't give him very flattering shirts. [00:33:01] Matthew: Yeah. But they established, he's a very good soccer player. Yeah. And there's a lot of endurance, a lot of coordination. All those things. He's athletic are the, the, the, the building blocks for martial arts. So they, they do go out of their way to establish that. He gets into a fight with Johnny and friends, so he doesn't, isn't allowed onto the school soccer team, but we see enough of it to see, oh yeah, he's an athletic kid. [00:33:22] Ian: Mm-hmm. And tho those are all pieces that help explain the speed [00:33:29] Matthew: Yes. [00:33:29] Ian: Of this, of this movie's narrative. Even better. I admit in my mind, before having re-watched this, I, if you had asked me like, oh, how long, if the story of, uh. The Karate kid set over and I would've said like a year. [00:33:45] Matthew: Mm-hmm. [00:33:46] Ian: No, it's like what? [00:33:47] Matthew: Yeah, it's one month and 19 days between the deal and the tournament. And they do break it up. They don't just give us a single montage of all of his training. Then he's ready. They show it as part of Daniel maturing a lot over that month and a half. Yes. In that we see, we see lots of the training. It's not just musical montage. We see conversations between him and Mr. Miyagi as they learn about each other and as they, they, Mr. Miyagi conveys some of the philosophy, not just the mo, the movements, but we also see him going on dates with Alli and becoming a more mature person in the way he interacts with his mother and all of these points? Yes. [00:34:33] Ian: The idea that Daniel is learning balance in life is such a nicely reinforced portion. [00:34:41] Matthew: Yeah. That idea of balance is both implicitly and explicitly repeated throughout the movie. And I don't think they ever give us any other reason why Daniel's father is not in the picture. [00:34:54] Ian: I don't know if they ever clarify. We don't know if he's alive, dead, left. Like we have no clue. He's just not here. [00:35:02] Matthew: And that's the other side of the fact that Mr. Miyagi never had a chance to meet or raise his son. Daniel doesn't have a father doesn't have that kind of influence in his life in addition to a teacher of karate and philosophy. He now has more of a father figure or a grandfather figure to sort of help fill that role in someone's life. [00:35:21] Ian: Exactly. So he gets a lot more, like the fact that they don't ever go into why Daniel's father figure is not there also helps that, because it means there's no baggage. He's bringing, there's no, oh, you'll leave me like he did, or, oh no, like mine's dead. You can't replace him. They never bother with like establishing it so they never have to fight against it. [00:35:47] Matthew: Yeah. That would've been an easy route to greater melodrama in the movie, but it really didn't need it. But all of this is building towards this tournament, this All-Valley 18 and Under Karate championship tournament, which for, I don't know how karate tournaments are run in, uh, California. You and I have been to a number of them here in Colorado, in the Rockies. But this is a heck of an event. It's at the, uh, local university. It's got this fancy octagonal center ring along with a number of secondary rings. [00:36:23] Ian: I know it's, it is got such a, like exuberant and dense crowd. Yeah. I, I half expect like. The Karate kid is not as generic. We've gotta save the rec center kind of sports movie. But it feels like there must be three or four of those happening in the background because there's such a, like these masses of people so invested and there's multiple other dojos. So it's not just Daniel fighting his way through the Cobra Kai people. There's like four other dojos in the area participating as well, who all seem to think Cobra Kai is a pile of jerks. [00:37:05] Matthew: Yeah. [00:37:05] Ian: Which really helps. It's like, oh, we've gotten here. Oh, everyone hates these guys, kick their butts. [00:37:13] Matthew: And Daniel shows up at this tournament, as they're registering on site, they're being asked, what is his rank? The this division you're trying to enter in is for black belts only. And Miyagi says, oh yeah, he's a black belt. He is two and a half. It was two months plus, plus the YMCA. [00:37:31] Ian: Oh, actually very specifically, he says, oh, he has a black belt, and then he sneaks a black belt to him outta the other guy's bag, which means that he does, in fact at that moment, have a black belt. [00:37:43] Matthew: That's true. He's the teacher and he is, being honest about that. And yet we, he goes into this tournament. I don't think we have any reason to believe that except for occasional punching and blocking drills with Mr. Miyagi. He has ever done even any free sparring, let alone been in a tournament. [00:38:01] Ian: Yeah. [00:38:02] Matthew: So that [00:38:03] Ian: I think the only thing we've seen him fight is the ocean. [00:38:06] Matthew: Yes. And uh, and that is, that's a little bit harder to believe because there are just. Experiences and instinct that you only get from sparring and from tournaments and Oh. And, but it, it kind of shows too, because I don't know if this was intentional or if this is just Ralph Macchio in this performance. He is so tight and so rigid in his stances and the way he moves in so much of this tournament, especially at the beginning in the first few, uh, matches that he has that it's believable that this part of it is brand new to him. And yet somehow the amazing teaching of Mr. An example of Mr. Miyagi allows him to come through this. And he absolutely is really, he's at the very beginning. He's just not used to somebody else coming at him and he's backing out and getting, , out of bounds warnings right and left. [00:39:00] Ian: I'm just re reminded of the Mike Tyson quote. Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. Yes. It's very, it's very much like that. Oh, I, I didn't. I've barely sparred Poseidon. What am I doing here? That's, that's kind of like, oh, no. Uh, like I, I can't, no. Mr. Miyagi's smiling at me. I got, [00:39:22] Matthew: yeah, right. And his mom there and Alli is there and he's got his honor. And, uh, the honor of Miyagi do karate. [00:39:32] Ian: Uh, understandably. We've talked a lot about, um, Daniel's, uh, evolution. I wanna just say Ali, the girlfriend's evolution over time is really nice. [00:39:43] Matthew: Yeah. [00:39:44] Ian: She starts out interested in Daniel 'cause he's got this, this energy, and he doesn't seem to be as worried, but she's restricted from two different sides. Johnny, her ex-boyfriend, is extremely possessive and uses his threatening nature to shove people in and out of her interaction circles. And her family is a more well off family in the neighborhood who has very strict expectations of her. And yet by the end she's just like, no, I will do what's going to be the right thing for me. And these are the people I care about. Nothing either of you say from either direction will change that. [00:40:29] Matthew: Mm-hmm. [00:40:30] Ian: And by the end, she's there helping out Daniel at the tournament, helping run around, get things done with Miyagi kind of acting as Miyagi's assistant, they all, they make the joke about that to get her into the, in there it's like, no, no, he, he needs his translator. But it's like the fact that she's going along with that, the fact that she's this, like she's got this little tiny rebellion arc. [00:40:57] Matthew: Yeah. [00:40:57] Ian: Running alongside Daniel's balance arc that helps them meet in a good middle. [00:41:03] Matthew: It does, it does. And it's clearly she and Johnny, they're both from the, the rich part of town, but they don't make too big a deal out of that. It's not the poor kids versus the rich kids in that sense, the way some movies are. Yes. But it does show that they've got different experiences. They have different worlds that they live in. And as with any romance story, there is the part in the middle where there's a misunderstanding and there's the rough spot. But that's resolved by, as you're saying, Allie, stating clearly she expects a certain amount of respect. And if you have a problem, talk to me. Don't just assume that I am using you to make Johnny jealous, or don't assume, uh, my reasons for wanting to hang out with you, or don't assume how I feel about Johnny. You talk to me, have enough respect for me to, to recognize that I'm making decisions and I'm making them for my reasons. Exactly. And that, that, that is refreshing. You don't see that in too many movies of the time. [00:41:59] Ian: It is a, it is wildly refreshing and it has, it has a good, it has a good element to the, the depiction of this story in this world. The same way having these other dojos who are just as fed up with Cobra Kai, yeah. Helps keep the world from feeling small. Allie being this external view who's evolving over the course of the story herself and has reasonable thoughts, but is observant, means that the world isn't stagnant in order to allow these characters to have their adventure, the town, the people, everything else around Daniel and Miyagi, and this conflict is still moving, is still happening. Mm-hmm. This is a story that is happening in parallel. With thousands of other stories we're not witnessing right now. The world stays alive mostly. Thanks. I think to Allie being kind of an anchor to, an anchor to the fact that everything else is moving. [00:43:09] Matthew: Yeah. She's having what's closer to a normal high school existence than either Johnny or Daniel [00:43:16] Ian: And because of that, Daniel isn't detached from the world. [00:43:22] Matthew: Mm-hmm. And so we see this tournament develop and get a montage of different matches. Eventually Daniel starts to figure out how to do this enough that he is advancing and he's got skills and he is moving towards the the quarter and the semifinals and the finals. And we also see Cobra Kai. Fighting their matches and be being brutal and ruthless and getting contact warnings and so on. And yet it interesting they've set it up such that we never see any, , Cobra Kai students sparring each other or fighting each other in these tournaments, which normally would happen, would wind up having a match against somebody from your own dojo. [00:44:05] Ian: Yeah. [00:44:05] Matthew: And yet they, they make a point of that's never the case, and that helps keep the teams separate where we've got the Cobra Kai guys and we've got Daniel and there's no confusion there. And as Daniel is showing his ability more and more and moving up the ranks, Kreese, the head of Cobra Kai is getting more and more nervous, I think about , the reputation of his dojo or , his twisted view of the honor of this dojo and the idea that they might have a serious fight against this kid , who they wanted to pick on. So he. He starts instructing his students to foul out and injure Daniel, just in case you didn't have that, you know, are we the baddies sort of thing that you're referring earlier? Yeah. [00:44:49] Ian: Which actually, which actually does give some of his students a bit of a pause where it's like, but then I'll be banned from the tournament and I'll be disqualified and my reputation will be ruined. [00:45:00] Matthew: Right. And you're not respecting me enough to believe that I might be able to take him outta the tournament legitimately following the rules by being a better fighter. It shows that line that Cobra Kai has crossed. Before then apart from there, there is the fact that their sensei seems to, appreciate or even, reward poor behavior outside the dojo and misuse of their karate abilities. Here in the tournament we do not only have a, a hard, fast, no mercy kind of philosophy and attitude, but rules are no impediment. We're here at a karate tournament. We will intentionally break the rules because that's not what matters to us. [00:45:43] Ian: Yeah. [00:45:45] Matthew: And, Kreese commands enough, fealty from his students that even the guy who has all these ethical mis misgivings about it, he fouls Daniel and strikes a joint. He hits him in the knee and wounds him. And the kid who did that is, is disqualified, but it looks like Daniel will not be able to fight. [00:46:05] Ian: And this is where Miyagi gets to be a little magical. [00:46:10] Matthew: Yeah. [00:46:10] Ian: With his hand rubbing technique, which we, which was not pulled out of nowhere. We'd seen him use this like, rub your hands warm and press them against a joint before to help Daniel, loosen up a shoulder that had gotten stiff from, , practice. [00:46:27] Matthew: Right. [00:46:28] Ian: But the idea that it can also like, heal deep tissue injury from a, from an illegal impact. [00:46:35] Matthew: Yeah. We're suddenly gonna heal a damaged knee, not just loosen up some muscles. [00:46:40] Ian: Yeah. Because Daniel had to be carried away. [00:46:42] Matthew: Yes. And [00:46:44] Ian: suddenly he's okay to, to walk. [00:46:46] Matthew: And even there, there is definitely a nod to realism because it's not as if Mr. Miyagi does this magical thing and whoa. Daniel's uh, back at level 9,000, he is, uh, Daniel has having trouble getting back to the ring. He's limping. He is. He is now able to move around enough that he can persuade the officials that he is able to fight. But that's about as far as Mr. Miyagi's attention's got him. He's, he's not, yeah, he's still fighting at a great disadvantage because of this injury. But still, [00:47:18] Ian: I don't wanna watch a version of this where you just edit in like video game health bars. And it's like Daniel, you know, goes from a hundred down to 15 Yagi rubs, hands presses against him plus five and that's all he does. Just bumps him up to 20. But he still down 80 points. But it's enough to get him walking. [00:47:39] Matthew: Miyagi spend some points to cast Curaga, [00:47:43] Ian: Curaga, this is Cure. This is just like the tiniest version of Cure, but it's there. So, [00:47:53] Matthew: and then of course we have the final match between Johnny and Daniel in which. The Cobra Kai Sensei is still giving the students bad advice, telling Johnny to sweep the leg, you know, go for the injury. Uh, use that against Daniel. And he tries, and they may make a point of it being a tense tournament with points going to both sides. And eventually, Daniel wins by using this super technique that was alluded to earlier, which has no defense if you do it right. But we never quite saw Daniel really learning that until he had to use it. [00:48:32] Ian: Yeah, [00:48:32] Matthew: really mastering it. [00:48:34] Ian: Yeah. But he does it, he does the crane technique and wins and everyone's cheering. They lift him up, they hand him the trophy. The ADR line is put in Mr. Miyagi smiles and the credits, the, the credits roll. [00:48:47] Matthew: That's it. [00:48:47] Ian: The, the credits roll. We don't get anything of the rest of the environment. [00:48:54] Matthew: No [00:48:55] Ian: climax hits and the movie halts. [00:48:59] Matthew: And to back up a second, um, that was a heck of a kick that Daniel landed right to Johnny's face. And we, we alluded to this before, you know, you and I have, have, uh, practiced karate and we've been in karate tournaments and any karate tournament I've ever been in or ever judged, that would have been, a penalty. That kind of a, that level of kick a minute kick in the face, it snaps the head back and knocks him over. Yeah, I know this was more closer to a full contact tournament than what we have tended to compete in or judge. But still, that was a brutal kick that would not have been allowed in any amateur tournament that I've been a part of. [00:49:40] Ian: Wait a minute. The entirety of a dojo is somehow able to not fight each other. The registration is rather simple and a little lax, and this hit against a dojo that a lot of other people don't like, isn't fouled. [00:50:08] Matthew: That's a point I hadn't thought of [00:50:10] Ian: is, I'm sorry, this tournament might be really, really poorly managed. I'm starting to think there's some like background problems with this. This tournament [00:50:25] Matthew: was this whole tournament set up like as a prank against Cobra Kai. [00:50:31] Ian: Oh goodness. That's even funny. [00:50:35] Matthew: Everybody, everybody in town hates these guys. We get enough of us together in a gym. One of us is gonna take them out. [00:50:42] Ian: So, so, so what you wind up with is three other dojos setting up a fake tournament, planning to kick Cobra Kai's butt. And this one kid wanders in from being taught by Mr. Miyagi, everyone's, like, oh, you know, he'll add some legitimacy. And he's the one who does the, who does the humiliating final attack. That would be an interesting side story. We've got like this weird little like prank heist film happening in the background. I re [00:51:13] Matthew: talking. Excessive contact. It didn't look, it didn't look like obsessive excessive contact to me. Did it? Oh, no. I think it looked like an okay kick to me. What are you talking [00:51:22] Ian: about? Looked absolutely like some of the kicks we've seen the very members of Cobra Kai perform before. Yeah. It must be okay. Otherwise, all of theirs would've been illegal too. Wouldn't you agree? Oh, this whole thing is a setup. [00:51:40] Matthew: But you're right, it is a very abrupt ending, isn't it? [00:51:43] Ian: It is so abrupt. It is. I, it is. I went to go get another beverage expecting to have a wind down, and I forgot that it just drops off. And I'm like, uh, I'm just standing there holding a can of LaCroix, staring at my screen as the credits start up. And I'm like, really? [00:52:03] Matthew: And, and I could kind of admire that. You know, this story, this movie had a story to tell. It got to the, the end. Why not leave on a high? We don't need a long epilogue. We don't need to learn that Johnny has reformed himself or that Daniel is now respected at school or that he and Ali are going to prom or anything. This was the story that it was here to tell and it got to the, the ending. That's cool. Yes, that's fine. That's, and of course we'll talk about this in a bit, but, uh, this is not necessarily the end of the saga for the Karate kid. [00:52:39] Ian: Wait, what do you mean? Oh boy. Oh boy. [00:52:46] Matthew: But I think maybe we are heading towards our final questions. [00:52:50] Ian: I think so. [00:52:51] Matthew: So we'll be coming back in a moment to talk about, uh, whether we recommend this movie and what we might be interested to see happen with this story, or what has happened with this story going beyond. But first, if you are enjoying the Inter Millennium Media Project and you want more or you want to contact us, please go to IMMProject.com. That's where you'll find all of our back episodes, almost 200 episodes in total. Now, not counting some of the bonuses that you'll find there. And that's also where you will find, a link to our Patreon. If you would like to support the podcast and get even more bonus audio content, you could support us on Patreon. You can follow us for free. You can get bonus audio content starting at the $3 a month level. And if you join us at the movie club level, you will get a surprise DVD in the mail periodically. Another way to support the podcast is to go to our store, if you like, coffee mugs, t-shirts, notebooks, fun things like that. Not just for the podcast, but also related to some of the TV and movies that we have talked about. You can find those on our store and we would love to hear from you. You can contact us with the links that you will find at , immproject.com. So you can contact us on our Discord. You can find us on Blue Sky and Mastodon. You can reach us by email and you can also reach us by genuine US Mail. [00:54:15] Frodo: It's the mail, I'll get used to it. [00:54:18] Matthew: So we hope you'll check that out and we would, uh, love to hear from you. And Ian, where can people find you? [00:54:24] Ian: I can be found online as ItemCrafting. Be that ItemCrafting.com or ItemCraftingLive on Twitch. I try to stream most every Thursday playing games, making some craft projects. Always happy to talk some films with any of you. And how about you, dad? [00:54:40] Matthew: Oh, you can find me at bymatthewporter.com and that's where you'll find links to whatever I'm doing, including my YouTube channel where I talk about movies and movie theaters. And also at buymatthewporter.com. You can sign up for my newsletter and you can find out more about my book that is coming out in May. Questions for the Dead. If you go to bymatthewporter.com, click on the, book cover, you will find out more about that and you'll be able to pre-order it at your favorite, real world or online bookstore. [00:55:12] Ian: It's a fun one. That is a fun story. I gotta say. [00:55:16] Matthew: Thank you. Well, that, , brings us to our final questions. It is a movie. So we start out with screen or no screen. [00:55:26] Ian: Oh, I think this is a screen for sure. It is a good film. It is a classic for a reason. I'm surprised it took as late as 2025 for it to be added to the Library of Congress's National Film Registry. [00:55:40] Matthew: Hmm. [00:55:41] Ian: Because it's just a good movie. [00:55:43] Matthew: It is. It's a very good movie in its own right. Just on its own terms. But it also had so much influence on movies, on some of that kind of filling a cultural gap that, uh, that existed at the time. Uh, it's, it's well worthwhile. I recommend it. And it's a worthwhile movie to show young people at an age where the lessons that it includes, are most valuable. [00:56:08] Ian: Oh, absolutely. This is a movie where this doesn't matter if you are taking karate or martial arts in general. This is a movie that can be inspirational regardless of your chosen form of activity. I can see this inspiring, know, soccer players, football players, baseball, whatever sport you wanna do, whatever thing gets you out and moving. The idea of balance of mind and body, the idea of focusing on, on the action of it and not letting the, the competition and the aggression become the driving force is really good. And the old, like, you know, well, I just tried doing it like the, there's a, there's a scene of now have ever broken board. No, never been attacked by tree is such a fun moment. And that right there is just like, you know, I probably could, I probably could break a board, but I don't have to. That's a good lesson. [00:57:05] Matthew: Yes. [00:57:07] Ian: There's a self-confidence and, uh, why waste it at the same time? [00:57:12] Matthew: Yeah, [00:57:13] Ian: I, I can see this being a really inspirational movie if you can, if you show it at the right time. [00:57:20] Matthew: And that brings us then to our next question, which is, uh, typically it is revive, reboot or rest in peace. Do we want prequels, sequels, other things in the continuity? Do we wanna reboot that kind of starts it fresh? Or do we just want it to stay what it is and be what it is and we don't need more? And that's very complicated with this movie, isn't it? [00:57:40] Ian: Hey, I heard you liked the Karate Kid. What if I could offer you a lot more karate kids like part two, which came out two years later and part three, three years after that? The next Karate Kid five. After that there's been Karate Kid stuff constantly as in just last year there was a Karate Kid movie, which merged the reboot from 2010 with the original timeline into a single film franchise again. Yeah. And apparently, and apparently kept all of the spinoff show Cobra Kai into its franchisees timeline. Apparently, I think, from what I can read, karate Kid Legends doesn't invalidate the TV show of the spinoff redemption of the bad guys from the first movie. Why is the Karate Kid the best example of consistent franchise universe that I can find in modern cinema. [00:58:55] Matthew: I am absolutely going to have to watch more of this because I, I have seen the first couple of sequels and they were good. I think Karate Kid part two, especially, it's its own kind of movie. It's not just more of the same. And it is a very good movie. Um, I didn't really keep, keep up with it beyond that. I didn't see the Jackie Chan Jaden Smith reboot, which apparently wasn't really a reboot in our terms. It was also a revival because it ties into the same continuity. Well, I kinda, well, it [00:59:24] Ian: wasn't originally, [00:59:25] Matthew: it wasn't, it was originally it was supposed to be a reboot, wasn't it? [00:59:28] Ian: Yeah. It was completely a reboot. And then they retconned the reboot into a, a revival. [00:59:35] Matthew: Yeah. They have, a little bit of, , Dom Toretto showing up at the last second of Tokyo Drift, just to let you know that they're not separate. [00:59:44] Ian: I think it's something like that. [00:59:46] Matthew: Um, or at least they do that in the, the movie from last year Legends. So yeah, I'm gonna have to watch some more of this. I think now that I've revisited this movie and it's gotten me interested, I'm gonna have to, I don't know if I'm gonna watch all of the other original movie sequels, like the next Karate Kid, although maybe they tied that in. But I think I'm gonna have to watch Cobra Kai and the Jackie Chan, Jayden Smith movie and the last year's movie, just to see how they did this. Yeah, [01:00:12] Ian: I kind of want to, I think the only three things that aren't considered Canon anymore are the 1989 animated TV series [01:00:24] Matthew: that I'd never heard of. [01:00:27] Ian: Yeah. The Karate Kid was an animated children's TV series debuting on nbc Saturday morning lineup, , produced by Dic. it's the French American animation studio doing a show about, about Okinawan karate. Um, and I don't know if the, uh, side scrolling beat him up. Cobra Kai, the Karate Kid Saga continues from 2020 is considered Canon or not, oh. And I don't think that the Karate Kid stage musical is considered Canon. [01:01:00] Matthew: Oh, man. Yeah. Well, maybe they're just biding their time to integrate these into the, the greater Karate kid universe. [01:01:11] Ian: I mean, if they want to, they could try and I would not fault them at this point. I don't know what this. The karate kid just keeps happening. [01:01:22] Matthew: So this might, it [01:01:23] Ian: just doesn't cease. [01:01:24] Matthew: This may be the first time in almost 200 episodes of our podcast, where, when faced with the revive, reboot, or rest in peace question, I'm just gonna say I got nothing. You got you. Do you, you guys are doing something. I'm not gonna say you shouldn't do it. I'm not gonna say it's great. I'm just gonna say I don't think I have a role here. It's far beyond my opinions now. [01:01:46] Ian: Yeah. It's like this, this is, this is completely beyond us. And as long as they can do all of these different things with balance, they're fine. [01:01:56] Matthew: That's right. So, yeah. I'm just gonna say, Hey, you, you, you guys, you guys cook. [01:02:05] Ian: Exactly. This is, this is the Crane stance of franchises. If you can do it right, there is no defense. [01:02:14] Matthew: Yep. Well, it's been a weird and long, uh, journey through martial arts land for the past, uh, couple of months. [01:02:25] Ian: Absolutely. [01:02:28] Matthew: But I think that, we're gonna put that aside for now and we're gonna take another turn in our upcoming episodes. [01:02:34] Ian: I think we are, [01:02:36] Matthew: yeah, we're gonna pull out a slightly different course, but we're still gonna have fun. We still have so much to talk about, about so much media from the 20th century. [01:02:43] Ian: In the meantime, go find something new to watch.