[00:00:00] Kimar: They sit in front of a video set all day watching those ridiculous Earth programs. It confuses them [00:00:12] Tom Servo: Let's have a Patrick Swayze Christmas? [00:00:14] Crow T. Robot: Uh, yeah, yeah, based on my favorite movie, Road House [00:00:23] Matthew: Hello, and welcome once again to the IMMP, the podcast from the Inter Millennium Media Project. My name is Matthew Porter. [00:00:34] Ian: And I'm Ian Porter. [00:00:36] Matthew: And this is your source for your fortnightly dose of nostalgia, media criticism, and misuse of parental authority. [00:00:45] Ian: Huh? Th- this wasn't misuse, Dad. [00:00:48] Matthew: It was not misuse? [00:00:49] Ian: This is exactly what this show is built for. [00:00:52] Matthew: It is. And this is a special event because this is our 200th podcast episode. [00:01:01] Ian: 200th episode. [00:01:02] Matthew: If you look on our list of back episodes that are all available on immproject.com, you will see more than 200 there because that includes some bonuses from our Patreon feed that we have brought over into the main feed for special reasons. But this is our 200th main feed podcast episode. We started in November of 2018, and with one, or I think two ex- exactly two exceptions that delayed- Yeah ... us such that we're now back on our original schedule. [00:01:34] Ian: Wait a minute. We self-corrected. [00:01:37] Matthew: We have been doing this every other week, uh, since then, and that has added up to 200 episodes. [00:01:42] Ian: That is absolutely wild. From something that started with you wanting to show me old movies- ... when I was a kid, and evolving into microphones and, the lovely audience listening to this now. It's been a wild ride, and it ain't stopping anytime soon. [00:02:00] Matthew: Well, half the fun of showing you these old movies and TV shows and records and things from when I was a kid, uh, is, was talking with you about them afterward, finding out what you thought about them. And it's fun to be able to share that with listeners to the podcast. [00:02:16] Ian: We've had some amazing discussions in all of this, and we've seen some wildly hilarious and- ... wildly thought-provoking films. And more than just films. TV shows, records, books. We've explored a lot of different types of media. We have done a lot of excellent commentary, I think. [00:02:34] Matthew: And it's been fun because it gives us different perspective. I'm often coming back to these things after, after decades, and some of the things that we watch, uh, that I really liked when I was younger and when they were newer, I realize don't hold up very well. Wow. And yet other things absolutely do. [00:02:54] Ian: There are things that childhood wants that, that adulthood looks at and says, "That was just weird." [00:03:04] Matthew: And when we say these were things from my youth, that often means things from far, earlier. Things that I was exposed to when I was a kid. Sometimes by my dad, sometimes by others, sometimes just, having discovered them. So one of our, my, our, my favorite set of episodes was when we were talking about the Thin Man movies. [00:03:24] Ian: Yes, which I love. Those are fun movies. [00:03:27] Matthew: And, it has given us, our vocabulary for talking about, strange changes in title references to movies- ... when we talk about things being Thin Man-ed. [00:03:36] Ian: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Which ironically enough is perpetuating what they did to the title of Thin Man in the reference there. [00:03:44] Matthew: So for this 200th episode, we had to pick something that was gonna be special and important, and we put our heads together, and we came up with something. We came s- up with something that was very, very important to me in my youth. [00:03:59] Ian: And important to me and mine. [00:04:01] Matthew: And that meant we had to watch the same thing more than once in different versions. Not different casts, not different... Well, sort of different productions. It'll make sense in a moment. [00:04:11] Ian: Absolutely. [00:04:12] Matthew: It also meant that this was weird programming because it is now our first episode for, July of 2026. [00:04:20] Ian: Yeah. [00:04:21] Matthew: And we have to make this Christmas in July. [00:04:24] Ian: Oh, you can hear the sleigh bells now. Christmas in July, sleigh bells and swimsuits. [00:04:33] Matthew: Because one thing we thought about when we were trying to think of something that meant just as much to Ian as it did to me- We realized that the perfect venue for that is Mystery Science Theater 3000. [00:04:50] Ian: Yes. This has been something we have needed to talk about for the longest time because you, you affected the trajectory. Not, not you the audience, I'm pointing at my dad very viciously right now. You, Matthew- ... changed the direction of the entirety of my media literacy off of a set of circulated VHS tapes. [00:05:14] Matthew: And yet Mystery Science Theater itself is out of bounds in terms of media from my youth because Mystery Science Theater did not start until several years after I was out of col- not only graduated from college, which is our usual cutoff, but I was out of law school and was married and Oh, now that I'm thinking about it, Mystery Science Theater may have had more of an impact on you than you realize because Mrs. Darling Wife and I discovered Mystery Science Theater when we were expecting you. Yeah. And watched a lot of it during that period of time. [00:05:53] Ian: I think it might have. But yeah, that show affected a lot, and that means that our 200th episode here is simultaneously a standard episode of our show and a millennial strikes back as I take over- and bring something that is impactful to me to the forefront instead of my father this time. But, or with my father this time. [00:06:17] Matthew: And the reason for this, and the reason why this turned into a Christmas in July episode, is that when we were thinking about Mystery Science Theater, and we were going through lists of episodes that they had done, and looking for or thinking about things that they had done their Mystery Science Theater treatment of, where the original was something from my childhood that I recalled. The one that stood out, it's not the only one possible, but the one that stood out far and above the, the rest was Santa Claus Conquers the Martians. [00:06:51] Ian: One of the consistently rated worst films ever made. [00:06:57] Matthew: And yet it was a staple- ... of holiday time local television programming that we would watch. And my, my brothers, especially my, my, uh, my big brother, your Uncle Paul, he was always looking for that broadcast that was gonna be on our local TV station- uh, sometime before Christmas, and we would always watch it. And yet it's, it's a ridiculous movie, and yet it has such great memories for me because it was part of Christmastime. It's a- And it was one of the earlier science fiction movies that I actually paid attention to. [00:07:35] Ian: Y- yeah. I gotta say, just thinking of this as a holiday film, it's this strange mashup with a slightly, a slightly off aftertaste and in a bit of an aggressive bite. This is the alcohol you mix into the fruity mixer that is like, It's a Wonderful Life to create the Christmas cocktail of films. This is the alcohol portion. A weird metaphor of mine, but- ... if you've listened to the show this long, you know weird metaphors are one of my specialties. [00:08:06] Matthew: In order to address this properly, that meant we really had to watch the movie as the movie. The way I had seen it as a kid, minus the, uh, WPIX, station identification and commercial breaks. And then we had to watch it separately in the Mystery Science Theater version. And I'm glad we did because, as they had to with many movies, they did trim this considerably- Yeah ... for the Mystery Science Theater version. There were chunks that they cut out, which having only seen the Mystery Science Theater version in the last 15, 20 years, I had forgotten about some of those earlier, some of those, those longer sections in the original movie. [00:08:47] Ian: Yeah. I mean, it doesn't do a lot for this movie's pacing, but they cut them out. [00:08:52] Matthew: Yes. Yeah. The, the movie, the movie could use a little more editing. It could use some pacing, uh, some pacing improvements But it has a fairly straightforward story. [00:09:05] Ian: Yeah, it's, it's wildly coherent in terms of narrative. [00:09:10] Matthew: There is a civilization on Mars. They're technologically advanced beyond us, and yet they seem to be a civilization in decline, mainly because their children have no energy, have no interest. They, they sit in front of their vid screens, tuned into programs that they can receive from Earth, and they're curious about what happens on Earth because so little happens on Mars. They consume only food pills. Children don't play with one another and don't go to school. They just are plugged into the teaching machines from the time that they are young. [00:09:47] Ian: Yeah. Mars has efficiency-ed out all of the joy of life, is kind of what you wind up seeing. And it's also really, really terrifying that they're pr- that this movie from 1964- has this, like, strangely modern, current establishing environment for Mars. [00:10:10] Matthew: It is kind of Huxley-ish. It's, uh- Well ... it is shades of Brave New World, this, uh, civilization on [00:10:17] Ian: Mars. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. [00:10:19] Matthew: And meanwhile, on Earth, it is December. It is Christmastime. And actually, before we get to Mars, the movie begins with a news report in which a TV news reporter is visiting the North Pole and Santa's workshop, and interviewing Santa, and talking about the preparations- for Christmas. So this is- I think- ... a world in which Santa is known to be real and is, willing to talk to people, and he's... He does his thing up at the North Pole all the time, but he's just part of the world and part of the way people live. Yeah. It, [00:10:53] Ian: it, it's just establishing Sant- he's there." Of course. "I barged into his house and asked him leading questions." It's like they, they established that already. And- And there's this whole weird little vaudeville bit between Santa Claus and Mrs. Claus where she realizes there's a camera and changes personality a bit. [00:11:13] Matthew: Yes. [00:11:14] Ian: It's ver- it's very awkward at the start. [00:11:16] Matthew: Right. She... It starts out she's the domineering person who's trying to keep everybody in line and on schedule, and then suddenly she's trying to be all charming and fixing her hair, uh, when she- Yeah ... finds out she's gonna be on television. It's, this was made in the early '60s. It has a very 1950s kind of sensibility, it seems to me, in terms of society. [00:11:37] Ian: Mm-hmm. Uh, I'd, I'd agree [00:11:40] Matthew: And I did note that the, the transition that we get from that initial scene at the North Pole to seeing what's happening on Mars is that there's a doll over in the space division of Santa's workshop where they're building rocket ship toys and things. Somebody has a doll of a spaceman, of a, of a Martian. Yes. And thi- well, this is Twinkie's idea of what a Martian looks like. Oh, I wouldn't wanna meet him on a dark night. It turns out Twinkie's idea of what a Martian looks like is exactly what Kimar, the leader of the Martians, looks like. What kind of special connection does Twinkie have? Or what kind of psychic ability does Twinkie have that he could model precisely what a Martian looks like? [00:12:25] Ian: Yeah, I, I, I feel like Twink- Twinkie is the Cassandra of the North, North Pole up there. Able to predict things accurately, but always dismissed. [00:12:38] Matthew: Or eventually he's believed. I'm imagining, uh, Santa looking over to the workbench and seeing what, seeing something that Twinkie has just made and saying, "Oh, no, it's happening." [00:12:50] Ian: Exactly. I wanna just see his, his workbench, and he's got spoilers for, like, a dozen other movies all laid out there. It's like a little wood stick f- stick figure from the Blair Witch Project. Yeah, [00:13:00] Matthew: right. Like- Santa Claus Conquers Cthulhu ... [00:13:03] Ian: yeah, he's got, got the Tesseract from Marvel Films- ... just sitting there already. It's like, "What are you on about, Twinkie?" It's like, "I've got all this planned." [00:13:11] Matthew: In addition to meeting Kimar, the ruler of the Martians, who's concerned about his kids- [00:13:16] Ian: Yeah. Oh, oh ... [00:13:16] Matthew: because they're the ones who are doing this [00:13:18] Ian: I also just wanna note something about Martian names here. Kimar, he's King Martian. The name is literally K-I-M-A-R. The Martians are just... The Martians are just shorthand versions, like you ha- like you've got limited text space to be able to give them names. It feels like the, it, this is the sort of naming you give a character before you're finished writing. Back when you're s- you're fleshing out the story and you put in, you know, detective cop name or something like that. Kimar is the sort of thing you put in there, but it got through all the process. [00:13:54] Matthew: Kimar, it works. Uh, yeah. Yeah. They're just trying to save a few bytes in storage. [00:13:58] Ian: Yeah, because, because then we meet, uh, uh, Girmar, which is girl Martian, and Bomar, boy Martian. Which are the children he's worried about. How did [00:14:08] Matthew: this never occur to me? You're absolutely right. [00:14:11] Ian: Oh, yeah. [00:14:12] Matthew: I don't remember the name of, of Kimar's wife, but I bet it's something similar [00:14:17] Ian: Uh, Momar [00:14:19] Matthew: Momar. Mom Martian. [00:14:21] Ian: Mom Martian. [00:14:24] Matthew: So at least their whole family is named very functionally. [00:14:28] Ian: Oh, wait, wait. No, no, this is just, this is just a Speed Racer thing. This is just mom and pop's racer- ... but for Martians. I'm making all the- Right references tonight [00:14:39] Matthew: We also meet Dropo [00:14:43] Ian: Yeah, played by Bill McCutchen [00:14:47] Matthew: And he is, uh, I gather he's, like, supposed to be their butler or, or housekeeper or the like. His job seems to be involved, uh, helping or supposedly helping with the Kimars' household. But he is, as they say, the laziest man on Mars. He wants to tell jokes and goof around, and he's not that interested in, uh, in working. So he's the vaudeville comedian that's injected into this uptight Martian society. [00:15:14] Ian: Oh, talk about, talk about a name and title that has rippled through the internet. [00:15:19] Matthew: Yes, indeed. I can't see this now without thinking about various gabber tracks. [00:15:25] Ian: Oh, yes. [00:15:27] Matthew: The Laziest Men on Mars, with hits like All Your Base Are Belong to Us, and- Yep ... Nothing Can Stop Torg. E- [00:15:35] Ian: exactly. [00:15:36] Matthew: And we also meet Volmar. I don't know what his name is supposed to mean, but he's kind of the, the angry, warlike Martian who is on the council led by Kimar. [00:15:48] Ian: Yeah, Voldar is... I think it's something dark, but- [00:15:52] Matthew: I guess so ... [00:15:54] Ian: volatile and dark I guess. But he is just, he is the angriest man on Mars, I think. [00:16:00] Matthew: He, he really is, and he's got a giant angry mustache to prove it. [00:16:04] Ian: Yeah. [00:16:04] Matthew: He's Darth Martian. [00:16:06] Ian: Vincent Beck and this mustache- ... have fused to work as one entity. Yes. But they are absolutely separate things when the cameras are not rolling or- [00:16:13] Matthew: Yeah, well the mustache had its own agent- Right ... and got a pretty good deal, so it had a minimum amount of screen time. [00:16:18] Ian: It mu- it must have. He is also just able to sneer and be angry all- ... like, so perfectly. [00:16:25] Matthew: And they're trying to figure out what to do about this problem with the kids being obsessed with these Earth programs and being lethargic, and the children of Mars not really, uh, uh, getting a chance to be children. To solve this at, at, uh, Momar's suggestion, they go and talk with Chochem. [00:16:47] Ian: Which is a bad pronunciation of Kocham. [00:16:50] Matthew: I guess so. [00:16:51] Ian: Which is Yiddish for wise. [00:16:54] Matthew: Oh, okay. [00:16:56] Ian: Yeah. [00:16:56] Matthew: I did wonder why this character sounded very European Jewish- Mm-hmm ... whereas none of the other characters on Mars do. But he is an- Yeah ... 800-year-old oracle. Mm-hmm. He's an old man who can appear and disappear in a puff of smoke, and who can dispense wisdom. [00:17:16] Ian: So he says that they've seen this problem coming for a long time, and that they need to make sure the kids have fun. To do this, Mars needs a Santa Claus. [00:17:27] Matthew: Yes, because he was, he was waxing philosophical and nostalgic about the fact that, uh, it's, it was the middle of Septober on Mars, but that meant it was December, you know, on Earth, and it was Christmas time, and they need a Santa Claus. So what do they decide to do? They decide to kidnap... There's only one Santa Claus, so there's, they have to go and kidnap Santa from Earth. [00:17:50] Ian: Yeah. It's like, "Oh, we need a Santa Claus?" "We'll take that one." [00:17:53] Matthew: Right. [00:17:56] Ian: Which is a very simple premise. There's like, there's a lot of, like, slow build-up and weird set dressing, beeping lights, and strange helmets. But the actual plot is very sensible. It's very A to B to C to D. You can follow it. [00:18:16] Matthew: It is, and we can summarize this very, very succinctly. They, they take their rocket ship to Earth. They observe all of these different Santa Clauses throughout Earth's cities, and they're confused about this. At first they think, "Well, they've got so many of them, uh, w- they're not gonna miss if we take one of them." But then to make sure they're on the right track, they land and they encounter Billy and Betty, two little kids. Yeah. And first of all, they point a gun in Billy's face and say, "Don't be afraid." [00:18:52] Ian: Yeah. The Mart- like, Martian etiquette is just not there. Oh, my goodness. [00:18:59] Matthew: I mean, maybe he had read the, uh, the Old Testament and he thought, "Well, when you're encountering somebody from another world, that's what you say: 'Don't be afraid.'" [00:19:07] Ian: yeah. [00:19:09] Matthew: Billy explains that, "Oh, those other guys you see in the city, those are Santa's helpers. There's only one real Santa and he's at the North Pole." So Billy rats out Santa- Yeah ... which he feels bad about later. And the Martians go to the North Pole, but of course they have to take the kids with them because the kids, the kids have seen their faces. Yeah. They can't be allowed to escape. [00:19:30] Ian: Yeah, this is absolutely like, it's a bad- This is a bad robbery job- Yeah ... that's done by the Martians on Earth, and they take hostages. [00:19:40] Matthew: You get the impression, uh, Voldar would like to just take care of this little problem here and now, not have- Yeah ... the mess of taking the kids with them. But Kimar puts the kids in the ship and they all, uh, head to the North Pole. [00:19:51] Ian: Yeah. Kimar takes the kids in the ship, but it's not completely in like a, uh, we care about them way. It's in a, "They might be useful." [00:20:00] Matthew: Right. [00:20:01] Ian: There's, it's a little bit more of like a, "Do you trust Dropo to dig two graves, even if they're that small? Get, put them on the ship." Oh, gosh. It's, it, it's very awkward, but it's very like militaristic. [00:20:15] Matthew: Yes. Yeah, we'll deal with them later. [00:20:19] Ian: Exactly. [00:20:19] Matthew: We don't have time to decide now. [00:20:22] Ian: there's some elements of the way they go about describing and showing off the ship that reminds me of Forbidden Planet. [00:20:30] Matthew: Yeah, it's Forbidden Planet on a really, really, really, really low budget. [00:20:35] Ian: Oh, yeah. [00:20:36] Matthew: And yet they- And this, they, yeah ... have enough techno babble. They're trying to make it seem cool- Yeah ... and exciting and futuristic. [00:20:41] Ian: Yeah. Because they're the, they're, they're flying around, getting spotted a little, so the government's now like, "What's going on? There's flying saucers coming in." But their radar jamming tools are working so that they are vanishing and reappearing places and- [00:20:57] Matthew: And- ... [00:20:57] Ian: evading Air- Air Force, uh, a- attempts at, uh, contact. [00:21:03] Matthew: And this allows them to pad out the movie with an orgy of stock footage- [00:21:08] Ian: Absolutely ... [00:21:09] Matthew: of military operations and, NORAD, public service and, publicity footage and things like that. [00:21:15] Ian: They have so much like random B-roll in the middle of this. I half expected them to start splicing in scenes from other movies. We're just gonna see the ship from here, like, you know, cross paths with, you know, other, other films for a moment, flying across the screen. But yeah, , they make their way to the North Pole, and, Just kidnap Santa? [00:21:40] Matthew: Uh, to do that they have to use, I, I wanna, wanna mention this because it, I mentioned it earlier. It's, uh, used in a Laziest Men on Mars song. They do have to use Torg. [00:21:52] Ian: Torg. [00:21:53] Matthew: Nothing can stop Torg. Torg is a robot that is re- I'm not exaggerating when we, I, I say this was made with a cardboard box and some paper plates- Yeah and things. [00:22:05] Ian: Oh, absolutely. If you wish to make it yourself, a screen accurate Torg costume for your m- next Comic-Con, order the supplies from Amazon. The boxes it'll come in is exactly what you need. [00:22:18] Matthew: And you can- [00:22:19] Ian: It's so simple. It's tin foil. [00:22:22] Matthew: And look at it very, very carefully. Look at the, the shots, uh, and the stills from the movie very, very carefully because if you don't, your version is probably going to look better than the one in the movie. And you want it to be screen accurate. [00:22:35] Ian: Absolutely. [00:22:37] Matthew: And meanwhile, of course, when the kids get there, with help from Dropo, they get off the ship because they wanna go warn Santa. They are delayed by an attack from, the worst polar bear costume in a movie. [00:22:53] Ian: Yes. [00:22:54] Matthew: It's right up there with the level of design with the Torg costume. But eventually Torg gets sent into the workshop to kidnap Santa. Mm-hmm. And Santa just kind of disarms Torg by being charming and saying, "Oh, wow, you're such a big toy and you're very well-made. I'm so impressed." I don't know- Oh, yeah ... if Torg is flattered or what. [00:23:15] Ian: Yeah. This is where you completely... You got to see it a little bit before, but the version of Santa in, in this film is entirely, like, maximum charisma man. He is just, you know, an aura of, "I'm your friend." He has. And everyone's with him. Even Voldar, who's just like, "We shouldn't be doing this. We shouldn't be bringing Santa. We should kill Santa because the humans shouldn't have a Santa." [00:23:43] Matthew: Right. " [00:23:44] Ian: The humans are weak because of this guy. Get rid of him for their sake." It's like he's messed up, and even he's like, "I can't just shoot him in the head 'cause he's too fun." Yeah. "He's too nice. Like, the, his presence is too much. I've gotta figure out convoluted ways of getting rid of this guy." Santa Claus being pure charisma just works. [00:24:05] Matthew: Yes. He'll just disarm you with a smile and a wink and a joke- Mm-hmm ... and, uh, and you'll be helpless. [00:24:13] Ian: And- It is John, John Call is playing Santa in this, and he is putting in such a performance ... [00:24:17] Matthew: and it, it works. It, it doesn't come across as artificial. Somehow there's a, a genuineness that he brings to this. And the- Yeah ... he's surrounded by all the weirdness of this movie. There's something very genuine about his Santa. [00:24:31] Ian: Mm-hmm. [00:24:33] Matthew: Uh, they, they do wind up, Voldar does shoot some of the elves and Mrs. Claus, but he shoots them with a freeze ray that makes sort of a pop gun noise and temporarily keeps them silent and still. Which- Yeah ... impresses Santa a little bit. He m- remarks that he's never seen Mrs. Claus quiet for this long. [00:24:55] Ian: Some problems there- [00:24:56] Matthew: Yeah ... at the [00:24:56] Ian: Claus house. [00:24:57] Matthew: Another of those, you know, '50s era Please Take My Wife kind of, uh, lines of jokes. [00:25:01] Ian: Oh, goodness, yeah. [00:25:04] Matthew: But, and Santa more or less says, "Well, if this is what we're doing, this is what we're doing, I'll come with you to Mars. Why not? I've always wanted to visit Mars." [00:25:12] Ian: Yeah. It's like, "Oh, yeah, a vacation." [00:25:16] Matthew: So they're all headed to Mars, including Billy and Betty. [00:25:22] Ian: Yeah. Who immediately become Santa's sidekicks. [00:25:25] Matthew: Yes. [00:25:25] Ian: Because it's Santa. He knows the kids. He knows their names. You know, they're his friends. And you get this weird, like, convoluted almost James Bond death traps, and then Santa magic your way out of it. It's, you know- Yeah ... they're gonna flush Santa Claus and the kids out the airlock. [00:25:44] Matthew: Yeah. [00:25:44] Ian: And Santa says, "I think an air return system for an airlock is kinda like a chimney. I can make it through that. Magic." And it works. Valdar's [00:25:54] Matthew: still trying to kill Santa and the kids if he can get away with it, but. [00:25:57] Ian: Yeah. And there's this, it's this weird back and forth tennis match of convoluted plans. [00:26:05] Matthew: There's, there's a certain weird resonance with Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy when it comes to characters and space travel, it seems to me. [00:26:16] Ian: Yeah, you're right. Ho, ho, ho. Ho. Kids, this year I've gotten you a babble fish. Let it crawl into your ear. It very, that does, that sounds like something that would come out of this film. [00:26:29] Matthew: And Santa appreciates Dropo and, and vice versa more than anybody else. [00:26:34] Ian: Oh, yeah. 'Cause Dropo's the one, like, being sent around to bring the kids and Santa their food. And Dropo's there, like, "Oh, hey, you know, I know it's just pills, but this one's chocolate ice cream. That's the best." And Santa's just like, "I like the cut of that Martian's jib." [00:26:52] Matthew: He always makes me laugh. He's always got a joke. [00:26:55] Ian: Oh- He's always got a joke ... [00:26:56] Matthew: and with those food pills, either Mars is replicating things that they know from Earth, or there are or at some point were cows on Mars Because some of their food pills are beef stew and other food pills are chocolate ice cream So Mars cows must be a thing, or they were back when Chauchem was a boy [00:27:26] Ian: So, oh, okay. Okay. This could also mean that the, that Mars has Earth cows because there used to be trade and portals between them, which does lead us to the awesomeness of John Carter versus Santa Claus. [00:27:40] Matthew: Yes. Yes. And it's the days of John Carter is what Voldar seems to want. What happened to the- Oh ... days of Martian warriors? Exactly. By Edgar Rice Burroughs wrote about them, for one thing. [00:27:52] Ian: Exactly. [00:27:53] Matthew: Or this is a wild idea, I don't think anybody's ever thought of it, but I suppose you could bring spaceships from another planet to Earth and pick up cows with them. [00:28:07] Ian: Yeah. [00:28:09] Matthew: It ex- Probably would just, Lain's a great deal [00:28:11] Ian: Explains plenty. [00:28:13] Matthew: It's not Mars needs cows, Mars needs ice cream and stew. [00:28:18] Ian: Oh, yeah. Oh. [00:28:22] Matthew: But yeah, Santa Claus and John Carter Beef ... I like it. [00:28:26] Ian: Beef. It's what's for dinner on Mars. Very different slogan. but they, they bring Santa to Mars, and Santa's concerned about the Martian kids too once he sees it. [00:28:39] Matthew: Yeah, and th- just meeting him cheers up, Bomar and, Gimar. they set up Santa with an, a mechanized workshop, so with just a push of a button he can... or he can read the letters that he's getting from the kids on Mars as to what they want for Christmas. [00:28:56] Ian: Mm-hmm. [00:28:56] Matthew: Push a button to create the doll or the toy train or the tennis racket or whatever they might want, and it's, it is very Earth-like, all the things that the Martian kids want. But I guess that's because they've been watching Earth television all this time. [00:29:12] Ian: I guess so. I just wanna know what type of filament, Santa Claus is using. Is this all done in ABS? Is this PLA? Is he annealing these afterwards to reduce layer lines? Ah. He's 3D printing everything. Absolutely. This is all just a giant 3D printer. [00:29:27] Matthew: and meanwhile, meanwhile Voldar has escaped. [00:29:31] Ian: Yes. Voldar w- Voldar kind of got, got in trouble for trying to assassinate Santa, and they couldn't hold Voldar. [00:29:39] Matthew: So Voldar and a bunch of his resistance fighters, I guess, the faction who's against Santa Claus and Kimar, are holed up in a cave somewhere [00:29:49] Ian: Voldar's gone off and started a strange little militia on, on a farm- Yes ... somewhere at the side of Mars, is kind of the scenario we've got. This is, this is not healthy mental behavior on Voldar's part. [00:30:00] Matthew: And they have a plan to go and capture Santa Claus again and stop him from making toys for all the Martian kids. But they accidentally captured Dropo instead because Dropo admires Santa Claus so, so much. He was trying on Santa's spare suit that, uh, Momar had made for him. [00:30:23] Ian: Yeah. [00:30:24] Matthew: And so they've captured Dropo. And they also, sabotaged the toy-making machine. [00:30:31] Ian: Mm-hmm [00:30:32] Matthew: And in the end, there's a big fight as, Voldar comes back to make his demands about ending all this Christmas nonsense, and if you don't, it's curtains for Santa Claus because we've got him held captive. Meanwhile, Santa Claus is still there, and we get this kind of pie fight sort of scene where the kids, uh, and Santa Claus all subdue Voldar and his henchmen using toys. [00:30:55] Ian: Yeah. I, I didn't... I didn't quite wanna reference this film, but it did remind me of some of the toy fight in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. [00:31:06] Matthew: Yes. [00:31:07] Ian: I had to pause the movie and go have another existential crisis thanks to that. Oh, [00:31:11] Matthew: dear. [00:31:15] Ian: Oh, boy. But there's elements there. [00:31:17] Matthew: Yep. [00:31:18] Ian: But yeah, it's a fight, and the ending is a pretty nice one there, which is Santa says, "Well, you guys need your own Santa," and Dropo's pretty good at this. Yeah, I hear you. So Dropo is now Martian Santa, and, uh, Santa goes back to Earth, and both, both planets get their own Santas. [00:31:38] Matthew: Because we saw when it came to having something to do like make toys that'll make kids happy, Dropo was not lazy. He was happy to go and, and w- work all overnight at this- Yeah ... fun job he suddenly had. [00:31:52] Ian: There's actually an interesting thing where Santa is so not used to the Martian technology and way of things that he's like, "This entire manufacturing process is pressing a button, and my finger is wearing out- because I'm not used to doing it this way." Yeah. "Where's my paint? Where's my wood? Where's my workshop?" And but Dropo's there like, "Oh, hey, a button. I know how to work this type of machine." Ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba. And he's better... He's, like, more efficient- ... with the Martian version than Santa because it's natural to him. This is a wonderful story of the idea of, like, it's not lazy employees. It's employee in a job that's not actually fitting their skillset. [00:32:32] Matthew: So as ridiculous as it is in terms of the, the low budget sets, the really, really cheesy costume and green face makeup for the, all the Martians, uh, the, the spaceships and all of that, it's not a bad story. It kinda holds together. Yeah. And cert- in, in, in some ways it was a little too complicated for when the f- for the first times that I saw it when I was really small and my big brother was watching it. And later on- Mm-hmm ... I was actually able to follow the story and thought, "Oh, what a cool story." And it ends up with both planets getting to be happy. [00:33:13] Ian: Yeah. It's, it's actually really h- like heartwarming. It's got, it's got soul. I didn't expect this. Santa Claus and the Martian has soul compared to some films. [00:33:28] Matthew: Well, so far we have talked about the movie Santa Claus Conquers the Martians. [00:33:33] Ian: Yeah. [00:33:34] Matthew: But that's only part of what we watched for this episode. As we mentioned, we also watched the Mystery Science Theater version of Santa Claus Conquers the Martians. [00:33:47] Ian: Insert the, the, the MST3K door sounds [00:33:52] Matthew: right here. Yes. [00:33:53] Ian: As we leave one into the other. [00:33:55] Matthew: We've got comedy sign. [00:33:57] Ian: We've got comedy sign. Because- And- ... [00:34:01] Matthew: yeah ... if you're, if you're listening to this podcast, I'm going to assume that you, uh, know what Mystery Science Theater is or could find out very easily. But essentially it's a, a, it's a TV show in which a guy and his robot friends are forced to watch old movies, and they make fun of the movies all the time they're watching them. [00:34:21] Ian: Mm-hmm. [00:34:22] Matthew: And like I was saying, I discovered this show, your mom and I discovered this show, uh, shortly after it started airing, uh, shortly after we were married, and it became one of our favorite TV shows at that time. [00:34:37] Ian: And here I am. You guys kept enjoying this as I was growing up. So I'm there elementary school and or, like earlier at some points, and one of the first pieces of memory of media I have is a show whose opening is, like, about, you know, "He'll try to keep his sanity with the help of his robot friends." "And, uh, if you're wondering how he eats and breathes and other science facts, then repeat to yourself, it's just a show, you should really just relax." That's the sort of mentality and humor I grew up with early on in my brain. And it's back there perpetually spinning. This little, this, this strange papier-mâché model of the moon with Mystery Science Theater 3000 in big block- aerial font on it is in the back of my mind still spinning to this day. I have shirts. I am- I love this show. [00:35:43] Matthew: And tell me, does having that, those early, early memories of this meta media treatment- [00:35:52] Ian: Yep ... [00:35:52] Matthew: what kind of impact has that had on your, uh, relationship with media in general? If it kind of- Well- started with this distancing mechanism. [00:36:03] Ian: I, uh, so Mystery Science Theater as a structure is a way for them to sh- is a way for, back in the day, started out, uh, on a small channel in Minnesota and went national and has revived multiple times. Mystery Science Theater is one of those projects you can't keep down. But it is always happy to make jokes at the, at the film, but it's still always engaged with the film. Mystery Science Theater is watching the movie, but there's, there's commentary track over it of our, uh, our host and robots making quips, filling in lines, pointing out the ridiculousness of these bad old films. And yet, whenever they break in between segments of the film, they run and do skits about topics in the film connected to what they were just seeing. There is a, a love of media built into this, and there is a de-stigmatization of critique and commentary Mystery Science Theater made me not afraid of critics- Ah when it came to media because it said that calling something out, making that joke, doesn't mean you don't like it. It just means you can see the problems with it, and you can appreciate them just as much as you can appreciate the good parts. [00:37:38] Matthew: Yeah, it gives you another level, another way in which to appreciate things. Mm-hmm. [00:37:43] Ian: Absolutely. [00:37:44] Matthew: And there's something I think is true of Mystery Science Theater. It's often just kind of summarized, oh, yeah, that show where they watch bad movies and make fun of them. Mm-hmm. That is true sometimes, and some of the movies that they've watched over the years and years of Mystery Science Theater have been really, really bad movies. They don't make the best Mystery Science Theater episodes. No. I think there has to be a certain degree of watchability of the movie itself to hold together throughout all of the riffing and the jokes and things. So- Yeah ... Manos: Hands of Fate, one of their most famous episodes because the movie is so bad, I can understand why that is appreciated because the movie is so bad. I don't think it is a particularly good Mystery Science Theater episode. I think that things like Santa Claus Conquers the Martians or, or a number of others that have... are more watchable. Rocketship XM I think was one that they did. These were not bad movies, and yet they found things to have fun with at that extra level. Yeah. [00:38:46] Ian: And Mystery Science Theater has a fun and unique cast of its own. It starts out with Joel Hodgson as Joel Robinson. Who is this friendly everyman, and he acts as kind of this parental figure to these robots he's made to help h- keep himself sane on the spaceship is their premise. That includes Tom Servo, a robot made out of a gumball machine and a barrel- who's a full-of-himself egomaniacal maniac at times. There's Crow T. Robot, who is kind of a, I wanna call him, like, a strange, laid back I- he just re- I, I, my mind always wants to default to, like, college radio announcer. [00:39:31] Matthew: Yeah, he's kind of a- A sinister- ... sinister neurotic. [00:39:34] Ian: Yeah. Uh, and, and Gypsy, who's this very shy wallflower of a, uh, a female robot who pilots the ship for them. [00:39:44] Matthew: Yeah. [00:39:45] Ian: And it's this strange cast of robot puppet characters playing off of this straight man human. And- [00:39:54] Matthew: And there's even Cam Bot, the camera. Yeah. When Joel was addressing us through the camera, it is actually another robot, so he's, in everything he interacts with is something that he created. And you're right, that creates a very parental energy. Mm-hmm. He's a parent to these little kids, especially Tom Servo and Crow. [00:40:16] Ian: And I'll say, this is a show that is, that wears the, the exact same kind of low budget, high concept that the movies they're riffing on. It wears that same thing on its sleeve. These robots are made out of spray paint and hot glue. [00:40:34] Matthew: Yes, like you were saying. Yeah. Tom Servo is a plastic gumball machine and the container from a barrel full of monkeys toys. , Crow is part of a lacrosse mask and, uh, a plastic bowling pin sliced in half. [00:40:48] Ian: Yeah. There's a lot of the same, like, willing something into existence that creates Torg in- Santa Claus Conquers the Martian, that creates these characters. I'm here a person who in all of my free time enjoys making stuff. I enjoy making props and costume pieces from video games and such I play. And the fact that I grew up watching something that wore its hot glue on its sleeve with pride has helped me in that pursuit. Because it means it is a sign of, you know, try making it. Enjoy the process of trying, because that's where the fun is. [00:41:32] Matthew: And perfection, outward perfection is not what's needed to make something charming and worthwhile and, and engaging. Yeah. It's, it's a great thing to aspire to in the right times, but it's not the be all and end all. [00:41:47] Ian: When it come ... An episode of Mystery Science Theater 3000 is the entirety of a movie plus their extra scenes. [00:41:53] Matthew: Right. [00:41:54] Ian: So I'd say that a lot of these top in at over an hour, almost two hours sometimes. [00:42:00] Matthew: Yeah, it was two hours broadcast. [00:42:03] Ian: Yeah. [00:42:03] Matthew: And therefore they often had to trim even more of the movie than would typically be done for television in order to fit the movie plus all of their host segments and intros and outros. [00:42:17] Ian: I have watched weeks of my life in Mystery Science Theater 3000 at that rate, but it's always been fun. [00:42:25] Matthew: And the aspects- And- ... of what you were tell- talking about in terms of the props and the way the robots are made and things, that is such a hallmark of Joel Hodgson, who created this and was its first host. Because he, I saw him, or before Mystery Science Theater, I saw him when he did, uh, bits on Saturday Night Live. He was a s- comedy guest, and he had this stand-up comedy act that relied on these weird props, like the ventriloquist doll that he had turned into the identical cousins connected at the spine, which was a weird reference to the Patty Duke show. And, like, time bombs made of crepe paper and, and alarm clocks, and all this weird prop comedy. And yet it was never about the props. The props were ex- excuses for him to come up with weird songs and disjointed stories and things. And it was later when I saw Mystery Science Theater, I w- two or three episodes in, I realized, "It's that guy, the guy I saw on Saturday Night Live," and then could never find anything about again. [00:43:36] Ian: It's ... that mindset of, you know, make it and let the intent shine through- Is so strong here. [00:43:45] Matthew: And he did eventually leave Mystery Science Theater, and someone else took over as host. And I think when he left, it was largely because he has that drive to make things, and it was, "This has been so much fun over these years, but I've already made this. I need to go make more things." [00:44:01] Ian: Yeah. And He's come back and helped on other things, but he's off doing other projects, and Mystery Science Theater has had Mike Nelson and then Jonah Heston as other hosts as they've gone through, rotating through a cast. But it's always Tom and Crow, and it's always weird old movies. [00:44:18] Matthew: And it always comes back to ... Well, it always maintains a lot of that vibe that Joel Hodgson gave it to it when it was, was new. [00:44:26] Ian: Mm-hmm. [00:44:27] Matthew: The relationships change. When Mike Nelson comes in after several years of Joel Hodgson, it was no longer he was the parent and the robots were the little kids. Yeah. It was more like the robots had now gotten old enough, they'd gone off to college, and he was their college buddy, their frat brother. [00:44:43] Ian: Yeah. This is their weird roommate. [00:44:45] Matthew: Yeah. They were- And, and- ... kind of indulging each other's worst impulses sometimes. Mm. But it was a different vibe, but it was still fun. [00:44:53] Ian: And when the ... And when this show ... And when Mystery Science Theater came back again, big enough to be picked up by Netflix, and they brought in, Jonah Heston, it evolved again into something that has a lot more of a, you know, coworkers around a watercooler- vibe at times between the various different characters. [00:45:14] Matthew: Yeah. They were peers at a different point in life. [00:45:18] Ian: There's an element where I've gotten to grow up alongside Tom and Crow through these stages of their own life. [00:45:24] Matthew: I never ... You're right. You're right. Interesting. [00:45:27] Ian: And here I am- ... with family, commenting on movies. [00:45:36] Matthew: Ha. [00:45:37] Ian: Ha. Dad, why does my arm look like a tennis racket? No, sorry. Uh, no. Uh, but yeah, Mystery Science Theater 3000, when they approached, uh, Santa Claus Conquers the Martians, got to just make a lot of fun jokes about the ridiculousness of its production mostly. [00:46:01] Matthew: Yes. [00:46:02] Ian: The cheesiness of its sets, the, uh, the, the lack of, uh, clarity as to why people are so aggressive. Their version of Santa Claus Conquers the Martian still lets you see that original story come through, but it's a lot more pointing out how the Martians seem to be in a bad shape- [00:46:28] Matthew: Yes ... [00:46:29] Ian: just to begin with, and how Santa is not the healthiest guy personality-wise. 'Cause he's got a, he's got some issues going on in the background he's just not dealing with. [00:46:41] Matthew: One of the big things they cut for time is most of the conversation and explanation around Chochem and who he is, and the fact that he's 800 years old, and he's their source of wisdom. Yeah. They cut out so much, and it's like, oh, they're, they have a problem. Smash cut to out in a Martian swamp talking to an old guy sitting on a rock. In the original, that whole sequence went on a bit too long, and all the explanation as to who Chochem is- Mm-hmm ... and then all the talk afterward about what do we do now that we've heard from Chochem, all of that went on a bit too long. I'd say the perfect balance is somewhere in between what these two versions gave us. Yeah. [00:47:17] Ian: But it did give Mystery Science Theater 3000 a chance to make their own bits. They're running jokes about the silliness of Martian helmets. [00:47:28] Matthew: Yes. [00:47:28] Ian: And do insert their own skits, which involves a lot of them kind of dealing with the spirit of Christmas and the, the nature of holiday celebration. And, and the strange obsession that Crow has for the movie Road House. [00:47:45] Matthew: It, it really came home to me as I was watching this recently what a time capsule this is. H- uh, how much it is totally focused in the time when it was made, in this case, the, the early '90s. And I started making a list of will Ian get this reference, will Ian get this reference? I had to stop making that list after a while- ... because it was like every other line was something where I, maybe I've now exposed Ian to enough '90s media that he'll get all of these, or maybe this is just impenetrable. I don't know. But yeah- Yeah ... all of the Patrick Swayze references, and the Road House board game, and the fact that they were making a lot of the fact that, Gimar, the girl Martian, was played by a very, very young Pia Zadora. [00:48:37] Ian: Mm-hmm. [00:48:37] Matthew: And they kept ma- referencing that. Did you have any idea who Pia Zadora was? No, not that you- Uh ... necessarily should. [00:48:43] Ian: It says something, though, that I didn't need that. Mystery Science Theater had enough other jokes. Because they are a constant flow, they don't interrupt the movie too often. If there's important lines, they give it a little bit of space, but then they'll throw in quips in between it's just, it's a fun time. I don't know how else to describe- Yeah ... Mystery Science Theater 3000. If you enjoy our podcast and have never watched their show, go watch some Mystery Science Theater 3000. I'm gonna jump ahead here for a moment, but you're gonna see some of the same kind of, you know, deconstruction and some, and discussion we do. But with a bit more of a, a comedy edge. [00:49:25] Matthew: Yeah. And if you don't get a joke, like, like you were saying, don't worry, there's gonna be another one seconds later. [00:49:33] Ian: Mm-hmm. [00:49:33] Matthew: Does it... It, they're, they're too fast to be concerned about that. [00:49:37] Ian: It is simultaneously timeless and a time capsule [00:49:40] Matthew: I mean, they were making references to Paisley Park, and unless you're a real big Prince fan, not gonna make a big impression. I'm glad I'd shown you Twin Peaks because when they were talking about confusing Earth television- Yes ... that's the first thing the robots mentioned was, "So especially Twin Peaks." [00:49:55] Ian: Especially Twin Peaks. Is he dead? What's going on? Why does she have a log? Like, this is the sort of stuff they get to reference. It's... Ah. Mystery Science Theater 3000, I enjoyed watching this movie through their lens a lot. And it's the version I remembered from my childhood, so I'm glad we got to do that as part of this. And I'm glad we're getting to talk about it here because the mentality of discussing media and laughing when it's funny is something that's important to this show existing. For the IMMP to exist, MST3K had to exist before it [00:50:39] Matthew: That is terrific, and it's funny how I've never made that direct connection before. But you're right that that sense of loving movies as a thing, even apart from any individual movie, loving movies or television or other media, part of that, for some people at least, is wanting to talk about it. Yeah. Wanting to make jokes at its expense, uh, even if they're kindly jokes towards things that you really do admire, and that's part- Mm-hmm ... of what we get from Mystery Science Theater. [00:51:13] Ian: It's the friendly ribbing of a buddy that- ... of, of a buddy who is able to say that to you because they know you [00:51:21] Matthew: I do have to ask, do you have, uh, Patrick Swayze Christmas stuck in your head the way I've had for the last week? [00:51:29] Ian: I specifically had a playlist of other earworms- ... designed to filter it out afterwards, so- [00:51:35] Matthew: Open up your heart and let the Patrick Swayze Christmas in. [00:51:42] Ian: I did make a note asking whether or not Road House is on the list of films that would show up on the IMMP later. Just to, uh, partially out of fear. [00:51:50] Matthew: I think it might have to be. [00:51:52] Ian: Okay, noted. Oh. [00:51:57] Matthew: Well, I don't know that there is much suspense here, but I think that does lead us towards our final questions. [00:52:05] Ian: I think [00:52:06] Matthew: so. So stay tuned for some final thoughts, about Mystery Science Theater and Santa Claus Conquers the Martians. But in the meantime, if you are enjoying, the IMMP podcast, first of all, thank you so much for listening. Whether this is the first episode you have, listened to, or if you have been listening to all of them since episode one back in 2018, or if you found us recently and you went back to listen to all the others, which is a fine and fun way to do it. However you've discovered us, however you've been listening, thank you. You- Thank you ... you make this fun, you make this worthwhile. And, uh, was it something that Joel Hodgson said about Mystery Science Theater was, uh, he doesn't care if not everybody gets the joke. The right people are gonna get the joke I don't care that much how many people are listening to the IMMP podcast because I have a feeling based upon the feedback we've gotten, we're reaching the right people who have the right, uh, right, right perspective, and I, I love it. [00:53:04] Ian: I, I'm with you, and I love that, too. Um, you know, MST3K back in the day had the phrase, uh, "Keep circulating the tapes," the idea of, you know, record the show, put it on a VHS tape, and mail that around the country to get other people to, uh, get to see episodes they haven't seen yet. And so I ask you, keep circulating the links. The IMMP is alive and well because not only have the right people who enjoy it found it, but they've shared it with people who they know would also enjoy it. And we've seen that community grow over time, and we've appreciated every single person who's joined, so thank you. [00:53:42] Matthew: And that is the best way you can support us, is by, by sharing it with other people, recommending it to others. leave us, uh, five-star reviews in whatever place you get your podcasts because that'll make it easier for other people to find it. But most important, just thank you for listening. And if you have discovered us recently or you're interested in more of the IMMP, uh, go to immproject.com because you'll find all of our back episodes, all 200 now, in addition to those bonuses that I talked about having been pulled over into our main feed. and more and more as we go through, I find us referencing previous IMMPs. Our, our show notes are more and more filled with, "Previously on the IMMP-" Oh, absolutely ... "here's another movie we talked about that we- that came up in this conversation." So, uh, that's, that might be a fun reason to go back to some of those old episodes. Uh, also on immproject.com, you'll find a link to our Patreon, which is another fine way to support us because it helps with hosting and helps me find the media that I get to subject Ian to. if you join our Patreon, you can just... You can join free just to follow us, and that's great. You can also join starting at the $3, Content Companion level and get bonus audio content in addition to those 200 episodes that we've got. [00:54:58] Ian: Exactly. [00:54:59] Matthew: Or you can join us at the Movie Club level, and every couple of months or so, you will get a mystery DVD in the mail, uh, featuring something that we're gonna be talking about soon on the podcast. [00:55:10] Ian: If you wanna experience the podcast the way I've gotten to, which is being sent random pieces of media- by, from my father that I have to respond to someh- sometimes never having heard of them before- ... it's a fun time. Honestly, the Movie Club is completely worth it. And, you know, come join me in what I, what I experience on this every time. [00:55:31] Matthew: And also at immproject.com, you'll find our contact page and all the ways you can contact us, and we would love to hear from you. are you familiar with, Santa Claus Conquers the Martians? And, uh, what do you think of it? What is your favorite Mystery Science Theater episode? What other things would you like us to talk about? Some of , my favorite bonus episodes have been from, listeners who recommended things like, uh, that, that weird mashup of Land of the Lost. Lost Island, I think it was called. [00:56:01] Ian: Yes. What in the world? That was... Ha. [00:56:05] Matthew: But you'll find, , ways to contact us on our Discord, , on Mastodon, on Blue Sky, by email. And also, you can send us honest-to-goodness mail at our, PO box. So, however you wanna reach out, we would love to hear from you. [00:56:20] Ian: Absolutely. [00:56:22] Matthew: And, uh, oh, one last thing you'll find on immproject.com is our shop. If you would like any IMMP merch and also merch like Ian is modeling there on our, our video feed, uh, with jokes about, uh, other things that we've talked about on the podcast, like Space 1999 or The Prisoner or another holiday classic, Die Hard. You'll find those at the IMMP, , shop. [00:56:46] Ian: Oh, yes. [00:56:48] Matthew: And Ian, how can people find you online? [00:56:51] Ian: I can be found as ItemCrafting, be that ItemCrafting.com, ItemCraftingLive on Twitch, or ItemCrafting on Blue Sky. I'm h- happy to chat on Blue Sky any time. And if you ever join me on those livestreams on Twitch, I, uh, stream most every Thursday playing games, making props, and just, you know, hanging out. So always excellent to see a podcast listener join on in. [00:57:16] Matthew: That's a fun time, that stream. I like that. [00:57:18] Ian: Well, thank you. And Dad, where can they find you? [00:57:21] Matthew: Well, you can find me just about anywhere as ByMatthewPorter, and that's true on Mastodon, on Blue Sky, on YouTube. I'm ByMatthewPorter. Best thing to do is probably to go to bymatthewporter.com, where you'll find links to all of those and other ways to contact me by email, et cetera. And also on bymatthewporter.com, you'll find, , my blog. You'll find a way to subscribe to , my low-traffic and zero-spam newsletter. And you'll find information about my book, Questions for the Dead, a psychic mystery novel. , You can buy that in e-book , and in paperback at your local bookstore- Mm-hmm or if you go to bymatthewporter.com, you'll find links on various places you can buy it online. [00:58:04] Ian: It, it's an excellent f- and, uh, very fun semi-supernatural mystery [00:58:10] Matthew: Well, that brings us to our, our final, I guess our final questions, also final thoughts about this. Our usual final questions for movies begin with screen or no screen [00:58:24] Ian: Oh, this, this is tricky. I think- [00:58:26] Matthew: Do we have to take these separately, , the original movie and the Mystery Science Theater version? [00:58:31] Ian: I think we do, and my response is watch either one, but this is a fun watch. I love it. It's, it's a holiday classic- ... in the weirdest way. But it's just a, a good lighthearted fun time with a weirdly actually followable plot and a kind of cheesiness that is endearing [00:58:58] Matthew: Yeah, I would say that as well. In some ways because of the interruptions and the cutting that they did for Mystery Science Theater, I would almost say that unless you have a, a really, really strong aversion to movies from the early '60s of this sort, or to really low-budget costuming and props and things, unless those are absolutely gonna turn you off, give the, uh, the original pres- presentation of this a try. And it might be the, the right thing to put on in the background while you're baking Christmas cookies. S- you don't wanna be too distracted because it actually has a story to follow, but it's not that complicated a story to follow, so- [00:59:39] Ian: Yeah ... [00:59:39] Matthew: that's, I think that's a fine approach. It's, it's one of those things to have on in the background when you're doing holiday things, and that's, to be honest, that's the role that it played in a lot of my childhood. If you're looking, then, for a good Mystery Science Theater, even a way into Mystery Science Theater- Oh, absolutely ... this is a great choice. [00:59:59] Ian: This is a fun one to get in there. It's a, a crash course in the comedy stylings. [01:00:05] Matthew: Yes. It has some of my- Oh ... favorite jokes during the movie. It has some of my favorite host segments in between. Mm-hmm. And, uh, if you enjoy this, then you'll, you'll be happy to know that there's a lot of other MST3K to enjoy beyond it. [01:00:20] Ian: A lot of it. There have been 230 episodes of that show, I think That is a lot. [01:00:29] Matthew: And more coming. They have- Yeah ... uh, they've had a Kickstarter recently for, I think it's four more episodes featuring the later cast from Mystery Science Theater, including Michael Nelson. Because as Mystery Science Theater sort of had its down times, the people involved went off to do something similar under different names and different groups. So we had Cinematic Titanic and The Film Crew. Mm-hmm. And RiffTrax. Yeah. And that's what, Michael Nelson and, I think Corbett and some of the others involved did. And now those folks who went off to do RiffTrax are coming back to do new Mystery Science Theater episodes. Yeah. Getting back together with Joel Hodgson and the crew, and I'm really looking forward to that. [01:01:14] Ian: It looks so much fun. I'm excited for it. [01:01:16] Matthew: And our, our second question then for movies is revive, reboot, or rest in peace? [01:01:24] Ian: Yeah. So- [01:01:25] Matthew: And again, I think we have to take these separately. [01:01:28] Ian: I think so. [01:01:29] Matthew: So for, for Santa Claus Conquers the Martians, what are you thinking? Revive, reboot, or rest in peace? [01:01:37] Ian: This is the weirdest thing because being a movie that has so much, , attention on it for being this quintessential, , bad B-movie, it has gotten, , a full remake [01:01:52] Matthew: It has [01:01:53] Ian: there's a, there's a full remake of it. A full remake that went so far as to hire Victor Stiles, the pl- who played Billy Foster, to play Billy Foster Sr., the dad of the kid, in the remake. That was Maverick Theater's Santa Claus Conquers the Martians, which is their B-make refilmed new version. But that's kinda leaning into making the jokes about how cheesy it is. [01:02:26] Matthew: Ah. [01:02:27] Ian: And about the, the low quality of the original. And I'm gonna say, Santa Claus Conquers the Martians has so much heart, I wanna see a really serious take of it. [01:02:38] Matthew: Yeah, a remake that's just to make fun of the original. That's... I mean, why? [01:02:42] Ian: Yeah. ' [01:02:43] Matthew: Cause you're not- But- ... really adding anything at that point. [01:02:45] Ian: Give me, like, Taika Waititi or Edgar Wright- taking a crack at, like, playing Santa Claus Conquers the Martians completely straight. That could be amazing. [01:02:59] Matthew: It could. That, it really could because there is enough in the story to sink your teeth into. And yeah, it's fantasy, but once you accept that fantasy, you've got this, the, the, the civilization in decline looking to Earth for what is the spark that we're missing, and- [01:03:19] Ian: Mm-hmm [01:03:19] Matthew: Santa Claus turns out to be it. [01:03:21] Ian: Oh, w- I know exactly. I want to see a Phil Lord version. Ah. Talk about someone who can balance characters being funny and dynamic. Like, give me, give me the Phil Lord version of this. W- Okay. [01:03:36] Matthew: I like that. [01:03:38] Ian: Yeah. So I'm, I'm all for Santa Claus Conquers the Martians needs a remake. I don't know what you could do with a revive. I feel like a revive is just, like, the continuing adventures of Beaumarz Santa, the Santa of Mars. [01:03:54] Matthew: Yeah. The, what, what does Dropo do now that he's really [01:03:57] Ian: Dro- Dropo. There's a- Yeah ... Dropo, the Santa of Mars. But that feels more like... See, Dropo, the Santa of Mars, that is an Image Comics comic book continuation , not a show. Yes. That's another story, but it's a different medium, I think. [01:04:14] Matthew: And a prequel, which is also a revival in our terms 'cause it would be in the same continuity. [01:04:21] Ian: Mm-hmm. [01:04:22] Matthew: Based on what we heard from Chochem, I mean, you could do a prequel that takes place centuries or millennia earlier about- the, the height of Martian civilization, the kind of thing that Voldar keeps saying he wants to go back to. And maybe you do just end up with the John Carter movie- Yeah, it's- ... which is pretty cool. I like the John Carter movie. And yet, , it would also be really depressing if you just go to the- Yeah ... decline of the civilization that, that Chochem was, bemoaning. [01:04:53] Ian: It just says, "Yeah, oh." [01:04:55] Matthew: So I, I would say a, a remake with a really strong vision. [01:05:02] Ian: Mm-hmm. [01:05:02] Matthew: A reboot i- with a, with a good directorial idea as to what to do with this story. That could be a lot of fun. [01:05:10] Ian: Yeah. And it's not like the movie's out of the cultural zeitgeist. [01:05:14] Matthew: No. [01:05:14] Ian: Just this year, the year we're releasing this, the film The Backrooms came out, and it has someone watching Santa Claus Conquers the Martians. [01:05:22] Matthew: Yes. [01:05:22] Ian: Modern directors are aware of this film. It's not going anywhere. So the chances of these revivals or continuations is higher than you might think. [01:05:30] Matthew: And the tradition of ridiculous Christmas movies has continued unabated for generations. I mean- [01:05:39] Ian: Oh, absolutely ... [01:05:40] Matthew: we've now got recent Christmas movies that involve The Rock playing Santa Claus' head of security. I mean, it's... Th- had that as no... Uh, that was a fun popcorn movie, and it was no more or less ridiculous than Santa Claus Conquers the Martians. [01:05:58] Ian: Oh, yeah. [01:05:58] Matthew: In terms of its concept. Had a much higher budget and lot of CGI, but beyond that- [01:06:03] Ian: But well, beyond that, not too different. [01:06:06] Matthew: So yeah, I, I, I think that would be a, would be a fun challenge for one of these directors you described- [01:06:13] Ian: Oh, yeah that you listed. Thank you. Ah. For, as for MST3K- MST3K is just the perpetual phoenix. [01:06:24] Matthew: Yes, it is getting its reboots in, in the form of kickstarters. It's [01:06:26] Ian: getting its [01:06:26] Matthew: reboots. [01:06:28] Ian: Yeah. It's, it's not going anywhere. [01:06:31] Matthew: I guess they are revivals technically. [01:06:33] Ian: No, I guess they are. [01:06:34] Matthew: They do- It's- ... take place in the continuity with the other, um- Yeah Mystery Science Theatres. [01:06:40] Ian: It's perpetually self-reviving. They just, you know- ... really reload the glue gun and, you know, spray down Crow with a fresh can of gold spray paint and they're in business all again. [01:06:50] Matthew: And I like their, their naming convention for the hosts because it's always the, the actor's or the comedian's actual first name. [01:06:59] Ian: Mm-hmm. [01:07:00] Matthew: And then they take the last name from the, the name of a character from some classic bit of science fiction. Joel Robinson is the Robinsons from Lost in Space. Michael Nelson, that happens to be Michael Nelson's name, but they kept the Nelson to refer to the character from I Dream of Jeannie, the astronaut. [01:07:18] Ian: Uh-huh. [01:07:19] Matthew: And then of course- Uh- ... Jonah Heston, the, uh, uh, Charlton. And that was not, that was more for another actor than for a character. It was Charlton Heston from Planet of the Apes. [01:07:28] Ian: Right, yeah. Right. But he, you know, that's Jonah Ray playing Jonah Heston, so. [01:07:34] Matthew: Yeah. And then there was Emily Conner, who joined as a host for some of the more recent revival series that they did on their own, Gizmoplex, streaming service. That was from, of course, Sarah Connor from Terminator. [01:07:48] Ian: Yep. So- [01:07:49] Matthew: So I, there are plenty of other characters- ... they can, uh, grab names from if they want to keep this going. [01:07:56] Ian: Do you, you think I've got a shot of winding up being a host on MST3K- ... sometime in my life, and I'll just be there as, you know, Ian Bomar? [01:08:06] Matthew: I like it. I like it. [01:08:07] Ian: I can, I, I, I can make that work. Hey, uh, hey, if any of you over there at Gizmonics Institute are listening in- ... send me a line. I will go and work for you, please. I can make robots. [01:08:24] Matthew: So this was, an unusual kind of episode, but it was appropriate for our 200th podcast episode. [01:08:30] Ian: It really was because as we were describing... and it's hard to completely, talk about a comedy thing without giving away their jokes. Yeah. But Mystery Science Theater was a key part of my childhood, and the fact that we found something where something you remembered from your childhood was covered by them- that overlap was a wonderful time, and I feel like we had a very emotional- ... and deep conversation here. [01:08:54] Matthew: We did. [01:08:55] Ian: Instead of a lot of celebratory oh- hullabaloo for making it to 200, but that's because this all meant a lot to us. [01:09:03] Matthew: And yeah, that's part of what has made this podcast interesting a- as we've done it for, for many years, is that it does bring up these kind of conversations. We can have the, what seems like the goofiest movie in the, in the world, and suddenly we're analyzing in ways that never occurred to us until we started this dialogue. [01:09:23] Ian: Mm-hmm. [01:09:26] Matthew: And I'm not sure that this is the last time we are going to look at a Mystery Science Theater on this podcast. [01:09:31] Ian: I don't, I don't think so. I think that they're gonna show up again plenty of times, sometimes as the focus. And sometimes just because they covered the thing we're watching- ... and we're gonna have to mention them. But now they're in our, they're in our repertoire once more. And I'm... I just wanna say, Dad, thank you. [01:09:55] Matthew: Ah. [01:09:56] Ian: Thank you for all of these episodes. This has been a wonderful time. [01:09:58] Matthew: Well, thank [01:09:59] Ian: you. And I'm look- [01:10:00] Matthew: Yeah ... [01:10:00] Ian: I'm looking forward to doing so many more. [01:10:03] Matthew: Well, it's, uh, it's not every dad that gets to have his, , son grow up into somebody who he just enjoys hanging out with and talking about movies with, as much as I enjoy hanging out with you. It's not every dad whose grown son who's got a life of his own is still interested in having these conversations with his old man. So thank you. I, I've, I've really appreciated this as well. [01:10:25] Ian: Always, Dad. Thank you. Yay. [01:10:28] Matthew: , And for listeners, , we've been doing this for 200 episodes plus now, and we will absolutely be back with plenty more tales of media from the 20th century. [01:10:39] Ian: In the meantime, go find something new to watch.