[00:00:00] Clip: Did you put the tape in? You already saw it at the network when it aired. Yeah. Wasn't it terrific. Everyone's reactions. Play it again, Sam. One more time. If you are going to do it, do it. It's right. I'll show you. [00:00:28] Matthew: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Inter Millennium Media Project Podcast, the IMMP podcast. My name is Matthew Porter. [00:00:37] Ian: And I'm Ian Porter. [00:00:38] Matthew: I'm his dad. He's my son, and I make him watch television. [00:00:43] Ian: Yeah. This time, I mean, this time it was hard to almost find the television, but it not because it's not available, it's because there's a lot of. Pieces to this point. [00:00:56] Matthew: Yeah. Many different versions. [00:00:58] Ian: Many versions, many, many interconnected things, , [00:01:01] Matthew: spanning many decades. [00:01:03] Ian: Yeah, because you had me watch V [00:01:08] Matthew: Yes. And specifically v the original miniseries from 1983. [00:01:14] Ian: Yeah. Not V The Final Battle or V the series or even v the 2009 reboot, which is where I know it from No, this was v the original miniseries. [00:01:31] Matthew: And the fact that the title is just a single letter does not make it easy to search for either. [00:01:35] Ian: They were not, look, they were not thinking of the search engine and optimization back in 83, were they? No. [00:01:40] Matthew: If you are interested in seeing this, it's available on Plex. Which you can join free of charge, , so you can watch it with ads , [00:01:47] Ian: I actually wound up watching an entire first episode of v the series. Oh. Trying to find this just 'cause of, , mislabeled, images. Oh, yeah. When I was first going, [00:01:56] Matthew: I hope that didn't like spoil a lot. [00:01:58] Ian: It didn't, but that's because I was already pre-spoiled. [00:02:02] Matthew: Oh yeah. [00:02:02] Ian: This series got a reboot in 2009. Usually we wait till like the end of the stuff to talk about that. This got a reboot in 2009 and that's right when I was, you know, late high school about to graduate kind of times. I knew of a lot of the twists Okay. That were carried over between the two. [00:02:20] Matthew: Yeah, [00:02:20] Ian: because the cultural zeitgeist included a copy of it. And so I knew a lot of what this would contain, but the, how it did it and the production of it was the interesting thing to see. Yeah, it's, I knew where I knew the twists, but it was interesting to see how they did it. [00:02:41] Matthew: And it is interesting to see this as a product of the early eighties, because this was a, well, we're gonna have to talk about the, the role of the mini series in television in the seventies and eighties. [00:02:52] Ian: Oh, yeah. [00:02:53] Matthew: But also, this was a big event when this premiered. I saw this when it originally aired in 1983. I was in high school. [00:02:59] Ian: Oh boy. [00:03:00] Matthew: And it was like a $13 million production for a two episode miniseries in 1983. They had a pretty big budget and , they put most of it on the screen, I would say. [00:03:12] Ian: That's a lot per episode and you can see it. Although it doesn't always, they, they're selective in what they put the money into. Yes, [00:03:21] Matthew: and, and it is, it was made for CRT broadcast television, in 1983. There are some of the visual effects as, as good as they were at the time. For television. They don't hold up well when they're put onto an hd, 50 inch LCD screen. [00:03:41] Ian: Yeah. Oh, some of that green screening. [00:03:46] Matthew: Another, as long as we're talking about production and things. I realize halfway through, I'm seeing this full screen and it was made for four by three television screens. So what did they, I didn't notice, like, oh, there's odd things obviously chopped out of this to crop into this aspect ratio, but I wonder how much that changes it, or I wonder if it's available in four by three anywhere. [00:04:06] Ian: It's extremely center framed and I, it looks like they filmed it on film stock and, then just boxed it for TVs. [00:04:19] Matthew: Interesting. [00:04:19] Ian: But I think we're seeing a re scan of the original film, that recording of it. And there were DVD releases of this series in the two thousands. [00:04:31] Matthew: Yeah, that's probably what we're seeing. [00:04:33] Ian: So I'm, we're probably seeing copies from that uploaded on the streaming sites like Plex that we, it's available on. [00:04:40] Matthew: Huh, interesting. [00:04:41] Ian: The content of this is a very interesting thing to watch in this time. [00:04:47] Matthew: Watching this in, in the USA in the year of our Lord, 2025 hits very differently than watching it in 1983. [00:04:58] Ian: Oh, I can imagine. [00:04:59] Matthew: Because this, this, it's a story of a fascist takeover of earth. [00:05:04] Ian: Yep. The aliens start by arriving at all of our cities and say, oh, hey, we need you to help us make some chemicals. We're gonna trade you our wondrous science and technology, and we'll then leave on our way and everything will be great. And all the, the governments are like, oh, that sounds amazing. Thank you. Absolutely. [00:05:24] Matthew: And when the aliens show up, they show up big. This is not one single diplomat and his robot like in, uh, the day the earth stood still, they show up with dozens and dozens of gigantic starships. Which park over every major city and capital in the world. I believe it was, uh, 50 of them spaced across the entire globe. And, and they say, yeah, we're from, we're from what you call serious. Our planet has environmental issues. We'd love your help with that. You could help us make some chemicals and we'll share our tech. And gee, we'll, we'll all be friends. Let's let us show you around our spaceship and talk about how cool we are and what we can do for you. [00:06:03] Ian: And then, then they start saying, well, scientists, were fighting against us. So we need everyone who's a scientist to be registered. Yes. Or taken away. [00:06:16] Matthew: Every scientist, everybody with a scientific background and, and profession, be they medical doctors or anthropologists or geologists or anything are all part of this conspiracy or initial immediately suspect. So we've got a fascist takeover and a fascist takeover that is particularly and explicitly anti-science. Isn't that interesting? [00:06:36] Ian: Yeah. Yeah. This hits so differently [00:06:42] Matthew: And one of the reasons they have for the fact that the scientists are the target group, which any fascism needs, is that the, the aliens have a secret. They look like humans. They, they sound like humans with slightly buzzy voices and they have to wear dark glasses 'cause they don't like our sun. But it turns out we, we learn a little bit into the first episode, first part of this, they're actually lizard people. Yeah. They're wearing human suits, but they're lizard people. They eat live animals and they're concerned that scientists are going to find out this secret or find out what they're really doing when they're, when they claim they just need to manufacture some important chemicals. And therefore scientists become the, the outgroup who is targeted as the enemy in this fascist state that they build. [00:07:33] Ian: And that's one of the places where this does have an issue. [00:07:37] Matthew: Yeah. [00:07:37] Ian: But it's an issue that is true with any sci-fi or fantasy. When it wants to make a point, a lot of the time, the metaphor and the fantastical elements of sci-fi and fantasy can give an out to the message where suddenly it's a, this isn't a, this isn't horrible things done by humans. It's horrible things done by these aliens, and that means that our humans are all excused from being bad. And our audience says, well, as, as long as I'm not a reptile from Sirius, I can't be that. [00:08:16] Matthew: Yeah, well good thing we're not being ruled by aliens, isn't it? [00:08:19] Ian: Exactly. And that's the problem. 'cause the message gets muddled and the, the very, very well constructed has some faults in the second half I'll say. But the overall well constructed frog in a pot scenario where the heat is slowly building. Mm-hmm. And you're seeing how all of these pieces chain reaction and cause the collapse, the idea that this is a warning message and a lesson can fall away because the ooh aliens aspect protects the audience from having to see themselves in the bad guys. [00:09:01] Matthew: Yeah. There is that tension here. On the one hand, I think it strives to do a pretty good job of showing this is not a violent colonial takeover of Earth. Mm-hmm. We've had stories about that Independence Day, which owes a great deal to V is a story about aliens who they come to earth with overwhelming military power and they just want to destroy, humanity and take over the planet. Mm-hmm. That is not the strategy that the visitors in v use, they subvert and use human society. They don't wanna obliterate it. They wanna make it one of their tools, which is more insidious in many ways. So there's that tension that we see of, on the one hand, it does a pretty good job of showing us the way humans convince themselves to collaborate and to take part in this. And they, they choose to work with the visitors for the sake of. Economic benefit and power, or social advancement and prestige. The visitors create this a system whereby they are, selecting chemical plants around the world to manufacture the chemicals they need to help fix their environmental issues at home. And that means a lot of wealth and prestige for the people who own these chemical plants. And on the other end of the, the kind of the socioeconomic spectrum, they create the friends of the visitor's corps where, and we see in one character, they illustrate how someone who is is, is disaffected and isn't. His life isn't really going anywhere. He's angry at everything. And, and this suddenly gives him a home. This gives him a place where he can get a snappy uniform and a title and friends and instant power and social prestige. How you can build a corps of the people you are taking over by offering them these kinds of things. [00:10:58] Ian: Yeah. And they, they also use that character who joins the, the visitor youth. [00:11:06] Matthew: Yes. [00:11:08] Ian: , he's the grandson of a Jewish family. Yeah. Who is able to make the references a little more overt by pointing out the, the direct comparisons. And he's the one who sees the writing on the wall and guides some people to write rebellion messages on the wall later. [00:11:25] Matthew: Yeah. And sadly, that is a big difference between 1983 and now is that the Nazism and the Holocaust were such, were still so central in living memory and that's not as much anymore. There're not as many people around who actually will remember that or, or know people who survived that. That changes the message. [00:11:43] Ian: So it's not that they bury the comparison, but the, the alien nature of doing this story this way can definitely muddle it if your audience is not ready to accept listening to the warning. [00:12:00] Matthew: That's true. And in some ways, using science fiction as a filter or as a lens through which to view things can give you distance to observe things and analyze things a little more objectively. But there is the risk of you saying, well, that's there, and then, and, and it has not. We, we have nothing to learn from this message until aliens show up. And it's interesting to note that in the context of how this was made, because the writers originally set out to write something about a, non-science fiction, fascist takeover in the United States. It started out as a, an adaptation of the Sinclair Lewis novel. IT CAN'T HAPPEN HERE [00:12:34] Ian: oh, that makes sense. [00:12:35] Matthew: Which is, you know, very much about the fact that yes, it could happen here and here's how it might that kind of cautionary novel. But the network and others, they were saying, well, this is a little too unbelievable. It's a little too intense. This isn't gonna happen. And interestingly, you know, it, it can't happen here. The novel was from 1935. It was easier, I'd say, to believe after World War II that no, it couldn't happen here at least while that memory was alive. But after , that reaction they got from the first adaptation they wanted to make of, of it can't happen here. They said, okay, why don't we tell a similar story, but, you know, science fiction is big. Star Wars was enormous. Why don't we tell the same story, but we'll tell it through this science fiction lens, and maybe people will at least find the premise more believable so that we can get the other messages across. And I'd say it was an interesting experiment. I'd say in some ways it worked. But you're right, there is that risk of saying, well, well, it's a good thing. There are no aliens. [00:13:29] Ian: And having established that concern, I'm happy to talk about because definitely this, it's not subtle. It's not hiding its message and it is impactful enough to get reestablished and reworked later on. I think that that has value. So I kind of wanted to go in the, to this with acknowledging that the sci-fi element has that detriment. [00:13:55] Matthew: It does. [00:13:56] Ian: Before being able to praise it for how much it did depicting the issues. Mm-hmm. And, you know, kind of prime it, prime the concept of like, this is sending that message that this is something humans could do to humans. This is something humans do to humans. Yeah. And that's what the message is. Then being able to say, oh, wow, they made the aliens structures brilliantly, brilliantly, clever, design-wise, in terms of that message. [00:14:29] Matthew: Yeah. [00:14:30] Ian: The saying The aliens doesn't take away from that. Oh my goodness. Knowing what the twist was already Uhhuh and being a person who loves you know, product and the packaging and structural and design language in general, it is so brilliant what they do. Because the alien crafts are curved, smooth lines. They float there, they first show up and it's very, oh, look, rounded. Rounded equals friendly. [00:15:03] Matthew: Mm, yes. It's, and then they're smooth and welcoming. [00:15:07] Ian: Exactly. And then their pods come down and their pods are still a little curved, but boxier. Oh, and the boxier pods look functional, but it has that element. And as the series goes and you get into the aliens ships themselves, the pillars and the columns and the grating gets increasingly utilitarian and brutalist ah, until it is straight up fascist architecture in some of their hidden command structures. And then it decides to throw a touch of HR Eger in there. Oh yeah. And so it's like, this is wild. And, but there's literally onion layers of false face design to the, all of the aliens pieces as you go through. [00:16:04] Matthew: And the visitors do have an emblem. [00:16:07] Ian: Yeah. [00:16:07] Matthew: Which, you know, it doesn't take too many looks at that to realize, oh, it's a space swastika. [00:16:13] Ian: It's literally a Connect the dots puzzle. [00:16:16] Matthew: Yes, [00:16:17] Ian: it is a connect the dots puzzle swastika. And their uniforms, their outfits are, I'd say 40% jumpsuit, 40%. SS uniform. Yeah. And, and a weird 20% biker gang, just to like smooth those together. I'll, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be honest, there's, there's that very heavy eighties, like shiny plastics and foiling kind of effect. [00:16:49] Matthew: Very much. You could see this look in a music video and not realize it's supposed to be from outer space. [00:16:54] Ian: Yeah. But, but there, I mean, even the, the uniform design has that built in. It's, it's got that, that historical reference sewn into all its seam. [00:17:06] Matthew: Yeah. It's, it's, and, and there too, you can see a progression as to what's revealed. It starts out, you know, he's, their supreme leader. John, who's the first person we meet, and we don't see him very much into the series because it turns out he's a figurehead, but he's this kind of guy in his fifties with gray hair and he's in his, red, jumpsuit. And, you know, he looks like he could be for out of a nasa, press conference or from a, a TV series from the seventies about space explorers. And he's being friendly and high and waving, and we can all be friends. And then it's that red jumpsuit plus the dark glasses they need to wear. Yeah. And then as they, uh, start exerting more military force it's the red jumpsuit plus the black vest, plus the, the energy rifles. And it's all, they're just adding bits and bits so you know who they really are. [00:17:58] Ian: The energy rifles that are intentionally shaped, like the barrel and the blocky top. Yes. Very much like an oversized Luger pistol. Yep. It, it, it, same thing. It's like even the design is doing that slow, you know. Put the frog in the pot, turn up the heat little by little and the frog won't jump out. It's, it's doing that piece by piece. And I will say though, our main characters, this is a variety of main characters. We bounce between. The opening shots are wild 'cause they are a, they are one of the best examples of a sci-fi story. Starting out by pointing out that no one saw this coming. Yes. Because it starts out with an action scene as reporter Mike Donovan. Who I just immediately, I saw him one time and I'm like, oh, hey, it's Edison Carter's great grandfather. Yes, yes, yes. Is it, this is straight out of an episode of, max Headroom, but he's running around with the giant camera on his shoulder recording a fight in, uh, an El some [00:19:11] Matthew: El Salvador. [00:19:12] Ian: In El Salvador. Very much [00:19:13] Matthew: in the news in the early eighties. News as they, in having their civil war. [00:19:17] Ian: Yeah. So here is, here he is covering a civil war and being shot at, because one of the sides does not want this getting out, doesn't want news reporters there. So he and his best friend have an, have a, a giant chase with explosions and Jeep versus helicopter fight, and then in the middle of it, it gets interrupted by a spaceship. And that's brilliant. Yes. If you didn't, if you didn't have to know what you were sitting down to by starting it up, that's probably something that the. The TV miniseries version of this had over the streaming element we've got now, you don't know what you're getting into the same, so the spaceship probably hits you different when you didn't have to click play on a screen with a poster that shows a spaceship in it to begin the, the story. [00:20:09] Matthew: That's true. Now, this was heavily promoted for weeks before it was aired. So the fact that it was science fiction, the fact that it involved Yeah. Visitors from another planet were, were very, very clear. But you're right, there must have been some people who just said, oh, it's on NBC tonight. And they, they see, oh, there's a war movie on it, and then they see a giant spaceship. Some people were gonna be surprised by that. [00:20:29] Ian: Yeah. But he is one of our main leads and he becomes kind of the, the finder of truth character. If someone's going to be. You know, brought into a place and is going to be our, our eyes and ears of getting a reveal. That's, that's gonna be Mike Donovan. [00:20:51] Matthew: Right. We learn things in, in many ways, at least, we learn details about the visitors as he learns them as an investigative reporter. And, uh, he's the first person to find out that they are actually lizard people. And that they're eating Guinea pigs and whatnot on their spaceship. [00:21:08] Ian: Oh, that was a wild scene later. [00:21:11] Matthew: Yes. [00:21:13] Ian: Oh, I would've expected weird stretch and squash animations from the flash era of like. The internet, you know, back in the 2005, 2007 kind of weird animation scene. I would've expected that to prep me better for how bizarre that scene is. But no, no, it's just, we're going to show you weird. It's time for weird [00:21:45] Matthew: Yes. Where Diana, who's the real leader of the, of the, the visitors, uh, she just, we see her unhinging, her jaw to put this big, fairly big sized rodent, into her mouth as dinner. And again, they, they had some special effect capability. They didn't overuse it, so it stayed shocking. Shocking. And they didn't blow their budget too much. But that was, I'm sure they spent a, a fair bit of time and money on just that one shot. And it was so very impactful because it made the shock that we see the, uh, Mike Donovan character have in response to this. It, it was believable because of what we had just seen. [00:22:20] Ian: And they do a great job of that in the prep wise too, because as the aliens are interacting and mingling, people note things about them and note these differences. It's like, well, they, they hate the bright light. Animals go crazy with terror when the, when the aliens are around and they never eat anything that's cooked. Yep. And all those little pieces are kind of, you see people note them or say, wait a minute, how are they like seeing the pieces and then ignore it? And that keeps happening. [00:23:05] Matthew: Yeah. And people are, oh, isn't that odd? Isn't that strange? I wonder why that is. Mm-hmm. And nobody's really connecting the dots for the first half of this story. But we do have another character, , Juliette Parrish, played by Faye Grant, who is a biologist and a medical student. And, and being, and gosh, she's a scientist. She and the people who work with her, they're all being oppressed as part of the, the oppressed class of scientists who are the enemy and are the people mm-hmm. Involved in this conspiracy. And there's conspiracies. They, they, they drum up this idea that scientists are all part of a conspiracy against the visitors and cooperation. They have ideas that, well scientists have had cures for cancer for generations, and they've just suppressed it because they're evil and they wanna make money. And all of these conspiracy theories around the idea of science. So anybody who's a scientist is, initially suspect. So she, and people who work with her, they kind of become the core of the initial resistance. And part of it is. Connecting these dots and bringing together all these pieces of information and learning what they can about the visitors and who they are in order to figure out if there's some way to fight them. So learning that they are actually lizards underneath human suits is very helpful to them. [00:24:21] Ian: Exactly. 'cause they're, they're figuring out and using the pieces of information. We get a couple of other, perspective characters. We get the, the family with the, the young disenfranchised man who joins the, the friends, the visitors, and his grandfather, the Holocaust survivor. We get the pair of brothers, one of whom is a doctor, and the other whom the other is a, uh, street vendor. Yes. [00:24:52] Matthew: Yeah. He's a petty criminal in la. [00:24:55] Ian: Yeah, we actually do see him first break into a place and then watch the news in the place he broke into, right? To see the aliens are arriving. [00:25:06] Matthew: And that says something about this, this mini series structure that this was using. In some ways, I think this was a, a trick mini series because again, we'll talk about all the different versions later, but this was very much intended, unless this is an absolute flop, it's gonna be a TV series. But the mini series idea really grew in such popularity in the seventies and into the eighties. This idea of its broadcast television, but we're gonna have a TV event and it's going, it's not going to be a TV series in that we're gonna do 20 some episodes and then if it's good, we'll do another 20 some episodes the next year. The mini series was, they were often adaptations of books. In fact, A, B, C started calling theirs like novels for television, and it would be a few episodes. And I think the first really big one was the adaptation of Alex Haley's roots in the seventies, which was like a five or six part series shown in order across that many nights. Okay. And, and they, because it was popular, it got to the point where things that previously would've just been called two part movies were now being called miniseries. But the, one of the things that the miniseries had in in common were, they were big stories, but we had this core of interconnected people connected through professions and families and things like that. And we see the whole big story through their experience of it. And that's something v definitely used from the miniseries, form and used pretty well because it is, we've got these families and these families then are connected professionally to these other families. And every person is unique and different and has another, you can say some of them are just tropes. They are are archetypes of a certain kind of person. But still that's useful in seeing how these different kinds of people relate to the story. I mean, the, the reporter Donovan, his father owns one of the chemical plants that is being favored by the visitors. So his parents are all in, they, they like the idea of working with the visitors. [00:27:16] Ian: Yeah. And , the Jewish family is next door neighbors to one of our scientist families. Yeah. And that's a huge part because they all talk about what's going on and it's, it's interesting to see that this is, it does so much in that sense, connecting everybody and connecting it to our real world. With, you know, the backgrounds and the histories and the families of our characters, even if they're not going to play a big piece, they're introduced and they're established. References are not held back. People are commenting about like, oh, you know, oh, they're aliens. Ah, they don't, they don't look like et they, oh, hey, you know, they, they mentioned some other TV series. I think, you know, they, they talk about this like they, they are, it's very well written, especially in that openings. Honestly, the first half of the first episode is so great at it. [00:28:12] Matthew: Mm-hmm. [00:28:13] Ian: Because it's doing all the establishment and it's establishing the people as very realistic in that sense. Which makes the, the things they go through and the drama later. Hit harder because of that establishment. [00:28:29] Matthew: There are even times before it gets really heavy when they show scenes where they're believable. And yet it's, wow, humans are really embarrassing, aren't we? Oh yeah. Like the first chemical plant that is being adapted to help the visitors make what they need. And the visitors are arriving with their technicians and the local high school marching band is there playing the theme from Star Wars very badly. And that's like their best way to welcome visitors. Come on. [00:28:57] Ian: It's that, it's those little moments that make this hit harder and I'm, I was so glad those were in there. [00:29:05] Matthew: And yet even within that weird little funnily awkward scene. They, the visitors have sent, sent several transports and the technicians are getting out in their uniforms and standing at attention and people are starting to wonder, gee, I didn't think they would send so many. There's a lot of them, aren't they? [00:29:23] Ian: Yeah. Those little things where it's like, oh, that's not, that's not science, that's not technician behavior. That's soldier behavior. Yes. And it's, it's, it's brilliant at using that, that normal everyday life they've established as a comparison to the creepy. Mm-hmm. As the creepy starts out. I love the fact that, they do great things with extras in this series. Yeah. Where as they start out, we see all the variety of people in the background. As they continue the number of extras in the background in the brown humans who are aligned Yes. And red alien uniforms increases until at the moments where it's the most tense and the most scary, and the things are going down completely. No one in the back is wearing any color but red. Mm-hmm. All of the extras in the background are wearing red. So the color grading, they don't tint to the screen, but the, the colors you're seeing coming through on the screen become a, an indicator of control. Oh. Without having to say it. [00:30:46] Matthew: I like that. Just subtly the world is becoming the visitor's world. [00:30:51] Ian: Mm-hmm. They show the grandfather who had, who had gone through the Holocaust and he, he and his wife take walks regularly. It's on those walks that they do a great job. 'cause every time you can get an idea of how far along the invasions come. Mm-hmm. Just by the background, while they talk about what's going on in his fears and what he's seen before. Yep. It's always looming right there. [00:31:17] Matthew: And there is that tension between telling the story of how there are humans who are resisting and there are humans who are collaborating and, and showing how this kind of collaboration can begin and take root is a big part of the story. There's a tension between that and to the fact that especially in the second episode of this, it becomes more of a humans versus aliens action movie. And we get big battle scenes. In fact, there's a big battle scene towards the very end, which is really. A very, I think, very conscious mirror of the El Salvador. Oh, yes. Battle scene we have at the beginning where there's this encampment of human resistance who are being attacked from above by, alien gunships. Just the way the rebel camp in El Salvador was being attacked by helicopter gunships. [00:32:07] Ian: It is a, it is so, so well done that those mirror each other. Mm-hmm. I, I noticed that immediately too. I'm like, oh, yeah. We have returned to where we began. And yet, yeah, the sec, that's why I say like, the second part of this series fell a little flatter for me because the, the likability and the connection to the people got over overridden by boom. Explosions, guns, lasers, ah. Daring Escape. Mm. Yeah. You, you ever left, you ever left a D&D session in the middle of a fight. And that different feeling when you come back, you know, a week or two later to continue playing the story and you go straight into combat, it's very different feeling. [00:33:00] Matthew: Yeah. And some of that is, you know, placating network needs and the like. It's gonna be a, a war movie, it's gonna be science fiction. We've gotta have laser gun battles. We expect certain things and certain audience members are gonna expect those things reasonably. So we do see a combination of types of resistance. We also get the idea that there is a resistance within the visitors. There are officers among the aliens who think what they're doing here on earth is wrong. And this is not what they signed up for. This is not what they were told. This whole mission was about, and they are assisting the human resistance to the extent that they can, and we don't see much of that. But here again, I was saying that this is sort of a, a fake miniseries or a trick miniseries. It was absolutely intended to be the pilot for a TV series. So they set up a few things like that, that remained loose ends. They had some plot impact here, but they seemed at least as much there in order to give them fuel for stories in a future TV series. [00:34:00] Ian: Oh, this, this even has a, a straight up, um, sequel or continuing series hook piece. [00:34:09] Matthew: Oh, yes. In one of [00:34:10] Ian: the, oh, in one of the other characters. [00:34:12] Matthew: Yes. Quite literally, [00:34:14] Ian: quite literally [00:34:15] Matthew: one of the characters who is the teenage daughter of one of the scientists , who's trying to escape, , and , she just wants to live her life. She doesn't want get mess mixed up in all of this stuff. And by the way, that alien. Who is stationed down the street. Isn't he cute? And yeah. They, they set up something they have to deal with later in the series as they get more intimate. [00:34:37] Ian: Yeah. Okay. I'm going to, I'm going to take a moment though. And I will admit they did a great job avoiding something. 'cause I was all set to have another breakout, section in our episode today of, Ian gets mad at the science. Oh, Ian does the math. [00:34:54] Matthew: There's a lot to talk about there. So fire away. [00:34:57] Ian: Because the thing that the aliens are doing is not getting chemicals. It's stealing the water. [00:35:03] Matthew: Yeah. They don't need our manufacturing. They're just taking all the water they can. [00:35:07] Ian: And I looked at this and saying, yes, liquid water is rare. Liquid water is rare in space. But water is not. Yes. Why are you going to earth if you need water, go take Europa. Go take Ganymede. We don't need one of those. [00:35:29] Matthew: And that's just in our system. [00:35:31] Ian: That's just in our system. And the only thing they did, the thing they did that avoided me getting actually like bad science at this show was the fact that the aliens were also kidnapping people. [00:35:47] Matthew: Yes. And [00:35:47] Ian: it implied the aliens were planning on experimenting and eating people. And I'm like, yes. Okay. Dang it, the water stuff is dumb. But if you're picking up water while coming here for food, you've made a case. I'm upset that you made that work. [00:36:06] Matthew: Yeah. And if it's just water, if you're, you're sending 50 gigantic spaceships across light years of space. [00:36:14] Ian: It's implied that there's more on the way that the 50 was the initial fleet coming. [00:36:19] Matthew: Yeah. Now whether or not they were telling the truth, they said, well, this is our first venture out beyond our star system. Wow. You went big for your first time, didn't you? Yeah. Send, you know, to send an experiment. And they also say that we had sent un manned, for lack of a better term, probes, and that's how we studied your planet and learned your language and all these things. But still, the first time you send people out, you send thousands and thousands of them in 50 ships, man. Yeah, it's ambitious. But there's also, even apart from liquid water, if you've got the energy and resources, even just the energy to send 50 ships across space like this, you could much more easily find a bunch of hydrogen and a bunch of oxygen and smash them together and make as much water as you need. [00:37:01] Ian: Yeah. It's like you, why are you doing this? Let's say for some reason you can't put water on your own planet for problems. [00:37:09] Clip: Mm-hmm. [00:37:09] Ian: You've got the ability to go to another planet that's not habited by anything. Yeah. Throw enough comets and ice moons at it to cover it in oceans, grow yourself some other food that you can eat on it and be fine. Why are you using Earth? [00:37:27] Matthew: So, yeah, I kind of felt the same way, but you make a good point that for the, yeah, ill accept it for the sake of a story, but also, yeah. Well they needed a biome 'cause they needed, food. [00:37:37] Ian: And actually, weirdly enough, that's the aliens treating all of interactions between sentient life as a zero sum game. That's a flaw that's actually tying it right back into a flaw humans make. Yes. It's like, oh wait, just because they've got liquid water means that if we want liquid water, we've gotta take theirs. No dude. Right. We can both have water. [00:38:01] Matthew: So they're sort of like putting the humans as suspended animation because they have to have living food when they're gonna eat it. But that's kind of weird. [00:38:07] Ian: Yeah. Creepy. Kinda weird. Creepy. That's where they went. All HR gigger on it. Our journalist hero and the, and a alien defector standing in front of the creepy matte painting. But the creepy matte painting is very, very creepy and effective. [00:38:25] Matthew: Now I'm finding myself thinking, you know, that they make deals with all these companies that have chemical plants around the world and they're, this is just a front, . 'cause they just want the water. But I'm also thinking, okay, now that we've got all the deals with the chemical plant, let's talk to this guy, Birdseye and uh, see how he can help us. He spent a lot with frozen foods on earth. [00:38:43] Ian: They, yeah, I mean, honestly, they, they did eat vegetables. [00:38:47] Matthew: Oh, did That's right. [00:38:48] Ian: Ate some raw, because there was the whole thing of like, oh, you know, you would, you like a chicken skewer? No, thank you. Crudite? Okay, [00:38:55] Matthew: that's right. It's nothing cooked. [00:38:57] Ian: And they'll eat some fibers and vegetables. Yep. But they wouldn't even eat like bread. 'cause bread was cooked. Yeah. It's like, it can't have, it can't have encountered heat. [00:39:06] Matthew: Interesting. [00:39:07] Ian: But then the aliens don't like heat. That was an interesting thing. They're reptile aliens, but they are great with the cold. Bad with heat. Yeah. [00:39:17] Matthew: And that's unusual for reptiles. [00:39:18] Ian: That's, that's inverted. [00:39:20] Matthew: They evolved differently, I suppose. [00:39:22] Ian: Yeah, these are reverse reptiles, reverse tiles [00:39:27] Matthew: The alien we see, withstand cold, who seems to be a good natured alien he's assigned to work at one of the chemical plants, and he winds up, saving the life of one of the human workers who, gets caught in a liquid nitrogen leak. That alien played by Robert England, [00:39:43] Ian: where do I recognize him from? [00:39:45] Matthew: His career has been playing Freddy Krueger in The Nightmare on Elm Street movies. Oh, and this was, uh, one of his early roles. [00:39:55] Ian: What? Oh, oh my goodness. It is him, [00:40:00] Matthew: and there's this kind of, almost a little, little cute romance between him and the lady who runs the. Snack wagon at the chemical plant. And that's an interesting point in which, and they do a good job that it's, it's not deterministic in that way. It's not, if you are an alien lizard from this other planet, you are necessarily inherently an inextricably evil. [00:40:23] Ian: Mm-hmm. [00:40:24] Matthew: Just as it's not, if you are a human on earth, you are inherently good. It's, it, it's still about human choices even though there are these factions and sub factions. [00:40:38] Ian: Yeah. There are. [00:40:39] Matthew: Or about character choices, I should say. Not human choices. [00:40:41] Ian: Yeah. There's the visitor side and the rebellion side, and there are aliens and humans and there are members of both aliens and, humans on each of those two other sides. Yep. This, these two boxes are not. Aligned on top of each other, one-to-one. And that is such a powerful thing because it means there's that, that fear and that worry and that that betrayal, right? Literally and emotionally when certain characters put values of themselves over everyone else or make decisions blindly thinking in the small term, but not realizing , in the long term what this means for anyone they care about or themselves. [00:41:28] Matthew: And that, that makes for a, a pretty sophisticated point. For early eighties tv it could have been very stark, could have been very, , two dimensional. And instead it really does become a story about paying attention, understanding what's happening, and making choices. [00:41:44] Ian: Mm-hmm. [00:41:46] Matthew: So I think we might be, be heading towards our final questions. [00:41:51] Ian: We might be, [00:41:53] Matthew: there's a lot to talk about in that regard with this, show [00:41:56] Ian: a a lot. And I feel like we've touched on a lot of different pieces here. And each of these could be a deep dive. [00:42:01] Matthew: Yeah. [00:42:02] Ian: But we're giving you an overview about this as a piece of media. Mm-hmm. Our show is about revisiting media in a new context with new perspectives, kind of checking the nostalgia and checking the, the narrative potential. And there's, I think we're gonna have an interesting talk here. I think so. [00:42:24] Matthew: But first, before we go into those final questions, , if you're enjoying the Inter Millennium Media Project, well, first of all, thank you so much for listening. Uh, best way to support us is to let people know about it, share it with your friends, give us, five stars on wherever it is you're getting your podcasts. And, also if you want more of the Inter Millennium Media Project, go to IMMProject.com where you will find all of our back episodes. You'll also find a link to our store if you like, t-shirts and coffee mugs, and fun things like that. A link to our Patreon if you want to support the series. And also get, more bonus audio content on Patreon. And you will find our contact page. We would love to hear from you. What do you think of v uh, what do you think of the media property that it grew into? You can reach us on Discord. You can reach us on Blue Sky and Mastodon. You can reach us on email. And you can reach us on honest to goodness, US mail, at our PO Box. Mm-hmm. So, Ian, where can people find you? [00:43:27] Ian: I can be found most places as item crafting. Be that item crafting.com or item crafting live on Twitch. I stream every Thursday for a couple of hours, playing games, building props, painting minis. I'd love to have you come join me and hey, if you wanna pop in and ask me about what we've been watching, talk to me about things that we've recorded for, I'm always happy to chat. [00:43:53] Matthew: Very cool. I've enjoyed your Dark Souls, , streams lately. [00:43:57] Ian: Yes. I've been getting dark. I've been getting Dark Souls co coaching, and those have been quite interesting because apparently I play the game like a madman. And how about you, dad? Where can people find you? [00:44:12] Matthew: Well, you can find me as by Matthew Porter most places. B-Y-M-A-T-T-H-E-W-P-O-R-T-E-R. Uh, so you can find me at bymatthewporter.com, where you'll find links to whatever else I'm doing. You'll also find me as by Matthew Porter, on, discord you'll also find me as by Matthew Porter on Blue Sky and on Mastodon. And, you'll find me as by Matthew Porter on YouTube, where I review movies and movie theater experiences and occasional, travel destinations. Ah, so are our final questions. This final question, this is another one of those in which media have already answered this, I suppose, but our usual question is, revive, reboot or rest in peace? Do we want more? In this same continuity revival of this, do we want our whole a reboot starting it again? Or do, do we just want to let it rest in peace? What are you thinking? So, [00:45:07] Ian: yeah. Well, so the, the original series, ends with the aliens still in charge but we're fighting against 'em. Then the final battle is kind of like a. A mini mini series. It's a, it's a three part special. And actually it looks like the final battle take is longer than the original miniseries running time wise Uhhuh. So that's odd. But the final battle puts us in a post of the alien invasion world for the TV series to then like be the continuing fight afterwards, a year later. But the TV series looks like it just became a weird space 1999. [00:45:58] Matthew: So final battle, not really final. [00:46:02] Ian: Yeah. I guess final battle is they're no longer on earth, but we need to be ready 'cause they'll show back up. 'cause we kick to their butts and they're mad now. Uhhuh. And so that was a, that's a whole thing. And I take the, the TV series like petered out and got canceled by after a little while from there. Yeah. And never finished its own story. [00:46:26] Matthew: Yeah. It seems like they, they had an opportunity to build a long running series with their original premise, and instead they put an end to their original premise, but still wanted to do more. Yes. Sounds like they, they should have continued their story and then maybe ended it with the final battle or eventually, or [00:46:47] Ian: I guess because there's a lot of, like, we've got a bunch of the aliens technology now stuff in the series. You kind of have this weird like, Rise of the Visitors World War Visitors, and then Alien Operation Paperclip, the TV series. [00:47:08] Matthew: Oh, I like that comparison. That is interesting. It's kind of there, and in some ways it's what we get when the problem that they ran into trying to make a sequel to Independence Day. I think we mentioned how much Independence Day owes to V and by the way, they both owe a whole lot to Arthur C. Clarke's CHILDHOOD'S END where gigantic spaceships show up over all the world's capitals. And there the aliens take a generation to get humans used to the idea of these alien overlords. In, independence Day, there is such a great climactic finale to Independence Day, and then they wanna create a new. Story a generation later, but they have to incorporate the fact that the world is extremely changed by what happened in Independence Day. [00:47:54] Ian: Exactly. But then interestingly enough, we get the 2009 series. [00:48:00] Matthew: Yeah. Now that was a, was that a reboot in our terms? [00:48:04] Ian: That's a full reboot. [00:48:06] Matthew: Hmm. [00:48:07] Ian: This is Giant ships appear, the aliens come down, say they're coming in peace. They want some of earth's resources help and they'll share their technological and medical knowledge and it uses a completely different set of humans. [00:48:21] Matthew: Yeah. [00:48:22] Ian: Like we're dealing with like FBI counter-terrorism agents and such, huh. Instead of reporters and the like, and I'm looking at it and saying, you look at some of the drama series that were going on. A little before that, because you gotta think any TV show that comes out in, 2009 is being inspired and being worked on based on what's happening with 2007, things like that. And that's where you've got, the reboots of bionic woman, or you've got things like Chuck and Primeval and shows like that. So it's very much, I can understand why someone went back to this story as a reboot potential, but it's told heroes in 2006 is a giant influence. I think on the reboot of V that's going to be a very different tone. Yeah. And it's going to be a little bit more of a, oh. high, action. Intense kind of story of the rebellion is going to form a lot faster and be a lot more on top of things and they do a little bit. 'cause I, I watched , some extra content about the reboot to get an idea of what happened later to see if they did what I was hoping. And they do a touch of what I'd hoped they'd do, but not as much as I'd, I wish they deal with the international element a bit more. [00:49:51] Matthew: Oh, interesting. That was kind of glossed over in the original [00:49:54] Ian: kind of glossed over, there's British characters and a couple of Middle Eastern characters I think , but that's as much in the. NCI Ification of V and that as it is anything V related. [00:50:10] Matthew: And it's so interesting to note those differences in who are the characters and who are the heroes in the, the remake in that in 1983 you're making TV in a media environment and for an audience who kind of grew up with Watergate and the Pentagon Papers and this idea that fearless investigative journalists are the are, are among the protectors of truth and freedom. Mm-hmm. So having your hero character be a reporter was not an unusual thing and it fit in a post September, 2001, America making this reboot in 2009. The idea of the heroes being counter-terrorism operatives is, is much more in keeping with where the culture was then. [00:50:57] Ian: Exactly. So that's the ways, they've interpreted this, they've given us this, post Watergate, American centric version. They've given us this post nine 11 slightly more international version. [00:51:09] Matthew: Mm-hmm. [00:51:11] Ian: So what would we think of other versions out there? I think a new version of V could be great. [00:51:18] Matthew: Really. [00:51:20] Ian: I think we could have a reboot again, but I want to see a full reboot and I've got an interesting twist this time. Yeah. The aliens don't arrive on all of earth. Ah, imagine if the aliens only decided to land on half and you lean into the international politics of that. [00:51:45] Matthew: Oh, interesting. [00:51:46] Ian: It could do a lot. And especially with our more. International interconnected. We've got listeners from all over the world just for our small podcast. We are more connected than ever. So the idea that you get perspectives of the people where the aliens are and people where the aliens are not right now. Hmm. And the influence across both could feel more realistic right now, could put into context the things, the fact that events of all of other nations affect the nation you're in and you can't ignore that fact anymore. A little I could, I think that could have some, some weight in this modern era. [00:52:30] Matthew: And it suggests an interesting strategy on the part of the visitors in that if they can play up that tendency towards conflict and, drawing, \, sides among humans. They can exploit the idea that, well, there are all those other people in those other countries who are just, they're just jealous of the fact that we came to you in, let's say, north America. And of course we did, because you're the ones who have the, the technology we can work with. And you're the ones who have the, the, the resources, the minerals that we need to trade with. So, but mm-hmm. Doesn't mean we don't like them, but they're so jealous. They're gonna fight with you and us. Uh, they can exploit that interesting idea for a reboot. I'm, I wasn't, I don't know that we need or necessarily could get a functional reboot of this now, but that's an interesting idea. Maybe we could, [00:53:20] Ian: I will say, trying to get one now would be very different and difficult. [00:53:25] Matthew: Yes. It would [00:53:26] Ian: just because I mean, the media landscape's different, the audience and what they're willing to listen to is so different. The news on the channel next to. This series would be so different. It's got a more uphill battle than it would've otherwise. But this kind of warning message, even with the issues of sci-fi, as we stated earlier in the start, this kind of message dies if it's not told. And so even, even when it feels like it's not the right time to tell it, tell it. Because forgetting that message is where the danger is. And it's a message many could, could listen to. [00:54:12] Matthew: And the fact that , 20th century, fascism is falling out of living memory means that telling the story and carrying on that message of its dangers in both fiction and nonfiction is more important than ever. Exactly. I agree with that. yeah, I knew this was gonna be a a somewhat heavy, this is a heavy one I introduce you to, especially at this time. But I still think it holds up in interesting ways as well as being an interesting artifact of its time. [00:54:41] Ian: Yeah. It wasn't, it wasn't easy to watch. I'll admit I actually had to watch it two parts because it's, it did the thing to me, this is, this is completely separate. I didn't wanna talk about, when we were talking about the serious stuff. It did the thing to me. We, anyone who's listened to the podcast long enough knows that I get lulled to sleep by synthesizers. And this show did in fact put me to sleep during one of its battle scenes. 'cause the synthesizer, , soundtrack at one point. And so I had to go back and rewatch part of an episode. Thanks to that, [00:55:18] Matthew: You're giving away vulnerabilities here, Ian. Anybody wants to take you out? They don't have to throw in a, you know, sleeping gas bomb. They just have to throw in a, a synth wave grenade. [00:55:27] Ian: Yeah. With a speaker [00:55:28] Matthew: built in. Nope. He's, he's out. [00:55:30] Ian: I got, I got Bluetooth speaker and three packs of magic cards. Ian's out like a light we're fine. Oh no, absolutely. Yep. [00:55:40] Matthew: So it's not just John Carpenter, it's any, uh, it's any synth heavy soundtrack. Huh? [00:55:44] Ian: Synth heavy soundtracks in general can apparently get me, but it's, it was, it was an interesting watch and I'm all for it. [00:55:51] Matthew: Cool. Mm-hmm. Well, thank you very much for, for joining us listeners. We hope you enjoyed this and, uh, we will be back soon with more tales of media from the 20th century. [00:56:02] Ian: In the meantime, go find something new to watch.