IMMP 171 - CITY HEAT === [00:00:00] Burt Reynolds: Oh, I've been doing it all wrong. I've been hiding. You just walked down the middle of the street, huh? Two guys down there on the right and two guys down there on the left. There's there four guys down there all together Say the lead police dismissed us. [00:00:22] Music: What? [00:00:23] Burt Reynolds: It's a test they give radio announcers. [00:00:32] Matthew: Hello and welcome to another episode of the IMMP podcast from the Inter Millennium Media Project. My name is Matthew Porter. [00:00:40] Ian: And I'm Ian Porter. [00:00:42] Matthew: I'm his dad. He's my son. And this podcast is your source for nostalgia, media criticism, and misuse of parental authority in case you're new to us. Every episode of the I-M-M-P-I-I, I persuade Ian to watch an old movie or TV show, or listen to a record or something else from my youth. And then we talk about it. Convince [00:01:07] Ian: Yeah, convince me to experience media. [00:01:11] Matthew: And we find out what Ian thinks of it, coming to it. Sometimes for the first time, what I think of it, coming to it sometimes after decades or after a million watches because I loved it. And this time, uh, as, as all we often do, we're talking about movies. I made Ian watch a movie, [00:01:26] Ian: a movie I'd never heard of before. [00:01:29] Matthew: I had a feeling you might not have because so few people have. [00:01:32] Ian: I mean, this is such a generic name though. It's the name sounds super generic. Honestly, the list of actors, I would've expected to at least tangentially knock on this in one of our, in, in one of the other explorations. But no, and that's, this one was, yeah, [00:01:52] Matthew: that's from Outta nowhere. That's what the studio thought as well, that, hey, we've got Clint Eastwood and Burt Reynolds in a movie together. How can this not be a blockbuster? But, uh, we are talking about city Heat from 1984, back to 84 magical year from movies. This is, um, is a different kind of entry for 84 movies. [00:02:17] Ian: It really is. I mean, 84 just had so much interesting stuff. But that doesn't mean it was all perfect. [00:02:26] Matthew: No, no. And you know, it's, that's long enough ago. Now we're getting some. Survivorship bias. The movies we remember from 1984, like Ghostbusters were the good ones and the movie. Mm-hmm. The other movies, uh, you know, there are a lot of others that we forget. This is one that most people forgot, but I wanted to show it to you because I think it deserves more than it gets as far as attention and appreciation. [00:02:50] Ian: Okay. I mean, I will say we're a, we're a podcast that talks about media, , its generational differences and everything else. This is a film that has so much, so much requirement of a media literacy and a media knowledge of the larger world. It's setting itself in that. I think it's a fascinating discussion. For us, city Heat is a, is one of those films where it stands on your own cinema history in terms of interaction. [00:03:26] Matthew: Yeah, you're gonna have a very different experience of this if you do or do not know, thirties and forties private I movies if you do. Yeah. Or do not know other things that these actors have done and, and what they are known for. [00:03:41] Ian: Exactly. This, I, I kept on thinking over to other films all the while, while watching this, [00:03:52] Matthew: and I had this in mind as a movie. We need to watch for the IMMP podcast for a long time, but I knew you had to see at least one or two Bert Reynolds movies first, and you had to see at least some of the iconic Clint Eastwood movies first in order to appreciate city heat. [00:04:10] Ian: Yeah. [00:04:12] Matthew: That's why in in recent episodes I had you watch some of the Clint Eastwood westerns and we watched Dirty Harry last time, not because I think Dirty Harry is a great movie. It's just you need to kind of understand that to understand a lot of movies that came after and specifically to understand a movie like City Heat. [00:04:30] Ian: Absolutely. And I will say if it wasn't for you having shown me Smokey and The Bandit, I wouldn't know the Burt Reynolds kind of character as well either. Yes. Those are so important to this because , there are movies in which an actor vanishes brilliantly into their role. Mm-hmm. Where you can almost like trying to remember that this actor was in that other thing almost is difficult 'cause they present something so clearly in this film, Burt Reynolds and Clint Eastwood, I. For all intents and purposes play the filmography of Burt Reynolds and Eastwood. [00:05:10] Matthew: Absolutely. And that, that goes to, , one of the distinctions I think that has faded away to some extent in movies and in acting and in filmmaking, and that is the idea of the, leading man as a type of movie star , and leading lady as well. But there was a certain kind of actor, you cast him in a movie to be what he is. You cast in the seventies, you would cast and, and even the eighties, you cast Burt Reynolds in a movie because you want Burt Reynolds, you don't want his subtle acting ability to become someone else. You cast Clint Eastwood to be Clint Eastwood. You go back farther, you cast Gary Cooper or Cary Grant. Or Betty Davis, you cast them kind of to be them. [00:05:54] Ian: I kind of agree I don't think that's completely gone away, but it has shifted. Yeah. There is an excellent video. I mean, not all of his takes are things everyone likes, but there's an excellent video by Patrick H Willems about the concept of movie stars is brands. [00:06:10] Music: Mm-hmm. [00:06:11] Ian: And how the modern movie star is a brand, but they are, that is on them, not the studio. Right. The studio doesn't make the actor the person, but you wind up with an actor like, Dwayne the Rock Johnson or Ryan Reynolds, who have a persona, but they are doing that themselves more and driving it in that direction instead of [00:06:32] Matthew: Yeah. Her [00:06:33] Ian: studio. [00:06:33] Matthew: You know, that is, I I, you're right. I take that back. There are still some kinds of movies and some kinds of roles in which we have that, the, the Action star. Exactly like , Dwayne Johnson or Jason Statham to some extent. Certain comedy actors. I don't know about any of you are really recent, but like Jim Carrey for example, you cast him because you wanted Jim Carrey. Absolutely. But you don't see that in drama or other kinds of movies as much. You don't. You, you, you have somebody who is a brand like Timothee Chalamet, and he's not gonna be playing the same character in Dune as in, uh, a complete unknown 'cause he's a character actor as well as a movie star. [00:07:17] Ian: Come with me and you'll see the wonders of Shy Hall, uh, anyway. But, um, everything good begins [00:07:29] Matthew: with a dream. It's like exactly every Timothy Chalamet movie, [00:07:34] Ian: Absolutely like thi this concept of the actors whose names are bigger than the, the movie title still exists, but it has morphed and changed in a social media environment away from a studio media environment. This is a studio media version of that kind of film. And if you don't have history with these films and these studio presentation of these people, you're not going to be able to grab onto everything. Being able to know Mike Murphy is not going to come to your mind. I have to look it up here. 'cause I just looked at it and said, oh, hey, Bert Reynolds is saying something funny. That's the difference. [00:08:20] Matthew: Yeah, that, that is an interesting point about how media has changed. You go back far enough, everything about an actor's public persona and communication was controlled by the studio. You go back a little bit less distant in time and you get to a point where the, the actors are no longer contracted to a studio, so they are hiring a publicist and everything is managed by this publicist. Today, you can read exactly what they said five minutes ago on social media, and there's more of that direct. This is a real person who happens to be in movies, which is an illusion itself, but at least they can, they can present that directness if they want to. [00:09:01] Ian: And, and that's why you also see a lot more of these actors and such who are selling brands of other things because that's a carryable aspect they're able to bring over. That's [00:09:09] Matthew: right. And a, any coffee roasters, we're still, , open to , an IMMP coffee blend. We would love that. [00:09:16] Ian: That would be amazing. Just, just making podcasts fuel. So now we've kind of established this is gonna be about them, but it's the, when they set this, that is interesting, I find, [00:09:31] Matthew: right? It's a, it's a crime, comedy drama. It's got a lot of different tones and it's set in 1933, Kansas City. [00:09:42] Ian: Interesting. Location and setting. I admit, I never remembered the Kansas [00:09:46] Matthew: aspect. They don't make a big point of it. You could have with a little bit of editing, made it impossible to tell what city this was in. It was just generic city in America. In the 1930s. Yeah, because we know it's during uh, uh, prohibition, but it is, they mentioned the levy. They mentioned there are a couple businesses that mentioned Missouri. It's in Kansas City, Missouri. In 1933 and our two characters, we've got Clint Eastwood as Lieutenant Spear, a Kansas City police detective, and then we've got Burt Reynolds as Mike Murphy, a former Kansas City police officer, and now private eye private detective. [00:10:29] Ian: Yeah. And this, this is written by Blake edwards, I believe [00:10:36] Matthew: It is. It's written by Blake Edwards, who was originally hired to direct it, but who was fired from the director's chair and who later took his name off of it so it's not credited to Blake Edwards. Yeah. He had it credit. It's not, uh, it's not Alan Smithy. The way you would do if a director took his name off it. It's, uh, Sam o Brown. Yeah. The, which, the initials for which are SOB. Yes. And Edwards says that his experience with this movie is one of the things that inspired him to write SOB 2, his second of his, Hollywood Satires, [00:11:20] Ian: which I guess, [00:11:22] Matthew: so he's not, not thrilled with his experience on this. No. But it was ultimately directed by, by, uh, Richard Benjamin, who is a Yeah. Comedy actor and, uh, and director and writer. We'll, we'll definitely talk about some other Richard Benjamin things in the future. Yeah. He's [00:11:37] Ian: known, he's known for some other stuff there. I was so fascinated because once I realized that, that that name was not the, was not the one I thought it was, you know. Oh, oh wait. This is, it was actually written by Blake Edwards. Once I figured out who Sam O Brown was. It made so much more sense. 'cause it lines up with things like the Pink Panther. Yes. It got that same energy. And so it's important I think, to realize this movie is going to bounce around like that. It's not a clear distinct mystery in that sense, a crime thriller that this is, this is slapstick in a certain way because of that. And that is how it is written and how it is presented. [00:12:22] Matthew: And that's one thing that that I think a lot of people watching this movie and critics who didn't like it, one of the problems they had was the fact that Blake Edwards, I think would have directed this very differently and maybe better to most views in that Blake Edwards, he could mix things like in the Pink Panther like you're describing, but he always, he decided what is going to be our tone and Yeah. And everything else is going to serve that tone. So a Pink Panther movie can combine mystery and slapstick comedy and satire and assassinations and all these things and, and super villainy out of a bond movie. But he's going to pick a certain satiric tone and everything else is going to serve that and be adjusted to do so. This movie instead, the way Richard Benjamin directed it, it bounced back and forth between different tones. [00:13:18] Ian: Yes. [00:13:19] Matthew: Because it had hit, its, I think it had some great comedy and of course satire parody of other Clint Eastwood and uh, Burt Reynolds stuff, as well as this kind of movie, this private eye movie. But it also had a lot of violence. [00:13:33] Ian: Yeah. [00:13:33] Matthew: And had a lot of drama and pathos and it shifted rather than blending. [00:13:39] Ian: Mm-hmm. I will say that opening scene. Does an excellent job of what should have been that initial warmup, like striking, a tuning fork so that the pure note is set across the entirety of the story later. And the problem is that this then starts to wobble away from that back and forth. [00:14:01] Matthew: Yeah. [00:14:03] Ian: But it's very, very much that initial note where we have a small diner and we, we get to see the differences between, uh, Clint Eastwood, Lieutenant Spear and Bur Reynolds, uh, PI Murphy just by wandering into this place. Speer's there. I want my coffee. I'm gonna sit here, I'm gonna growl at someone and intimidate them to leave me alone. I'm rough. And you can immediately tell This is Clint's wood playing off of the. The guns slinger and the Dirty Harry kind of archetypes. Right. Burt Reynolds though. Showing up in a nice fancy car coming in. Affable, happy shake hands. Ah, hey buddy. And immediately getting beset on by two guys ready to beat him up. Yeah. In a protracted and very violent fight scene. [00:14:54] Matthew: Very. And yet in this point it's a, it's a big table breaking brawl, but it's still kind of played for slapstick. [00:15:04] Ian: Yeah. [00:15:04] Matthew: Because we've got Murphy expecting or wanting some help from Spear and not getting it. 'cause Spear's just sitting there drinking his coffee while Mike's getting destroyed over in the corner. If all of the action and violence in the movie had maintained that kind of tone, it would've been more consistent. We get bloodier violence later, but that opening scene is great because we establish so many things about the characters we establish about Spear. He's, he's going to mind his own business unless either a, he sees a crime being committed that he cares about and he's going to then do something. Apparently beating up Mike Murphy is not a, a crime he cares about or if it affects him. Yes. The moment he's jostled so that a little bit of his coffee spills, then you see his eyes start to twitch. He gets up and he gets into the fight and ends it. [00:15:53] Ian: The referencing a much, much later movie. But there was something very, that's my secret cap. I'm always angry about the way he just went from, I'm here to have my beverage to, that's it through the Plate Glass window. Yes. Oh my goodness. That opening gave me a lot of hope for this film, I will say. [00:16:14] Matthew: Yeah, , if it had maintained that, I think more people would've liked it. And they also established some other things about the characters in that opening is that, uh, Murphy and Spear have a history and they, they don't like each other and the way they express that fits their characters spear is very serious. He doesn't like Murphy at all. Murphy doesn't think much of Spear and is going to hurl creative insults at him if he, if he thinks about it.. Do they ever clearly, explicitly in the movie state that they were partners when they were on the police force? [00:16:48] Ian: No, but it's kind of implied by other aspects. [00:16:52] Matthew: I think they make it very clear. Without ever explicitly stating it, which I like. They give us all the information, they set it up, it makes everything else make sense. And yet they trust us to understand. They don't have an as you know, Bob, between the characters explaining, well back when you were my partner on the police force, you wouldn't have done this, but then you had to leave because that's the reason why Spear really dislikes Murphy as he feels like Murphy was, was not loyal and he left the police force. And Murphy, I think just is attitude from Spear. [00:17:25] Ian: Yeah. . Murphy seems more hurt by Spear's anger at him than anything else. [00:17:31] Matthew: Yes, I think Murphy would be okay to let bygones be bygones and he only snaps at spear in retaliation. And sometimes it's most when Spear's comments get a little too close to home but I think Spear and also the collection guys who, who came to beat up, , Murphy, they were describing him as a, PI with a, threadbare collar and all these things. And we get the impression that we, Murphy is not great with money. He's not making a lot of money and he doesn't spend it wisely. He's got this car, it's in Model A Roadster, the roof doesn't work. So he's driving around rainy Kansas City with an umbrella. Oh. And uh, and we see him talking in the office about, money being tight. So, , he hasn't done spectacularly well as a private investigator, but he relishes the freedom it gives him compared to being on the police force. You can see where he wouldn't necessarily have had a great career on the police force going forward, just based on his personality. [00:18:31] Ian: Exactly. He's, he's understandable but not always likable in that sense. Right. [00:18:38] Matthew: And he gets by on, on charm in where spear gets by on intimidation. [00:18:44] Ian: That's exactly right. If each of these two characters have to get through a door, Murphy is going to immediately become this man's best friend and Spear is going to make this man realize just how fragile his femur are and both of them will get through the door and both of them will kind of be upset with the other one. Right. You know, Murphy will be upset that Spear had to, to make an enemy and Spear's going to be upset with Murphy that it took so long to buy that man a drink and, and get through this door when they should have been in there 20 minutes ago. [00:19:20] Matthew: And, if Murphy is fixing for a fight, he won't necessarily hesitate, but he'll start it with a, a creative cutting insult rather than With a glare. And a growl. [00:19:32] Ian: Exactly. But he also does start a lot of fights [00:19:36] Matthew: oh yes he is. Yes he does. [00:19:38] Ian: He is, he is an instigator in some ways more than spear is. Spear is an ender, not an instigator in a lot of scenarios. [00:19:45] Matthew: That's a good point. Murphy will start a fight and spear will end it. [00:19:48] Ian: Yep. [00:19:51] Matthew: But Murphy's also got a partner, we find out. Yes, because he's got, we see him back in the office and his secretary, right hand person, Addie played by Jane Alexander, looking absolutely adorable. Is there, and also Richard Roundtree is playing his partner Dale Swift. Yeah, this movie has such a stacked cast. There are so many amazing actors. Like, wait a minute, that's Richard Roundtree, that's Jane Alexander. Later on we, you know, tiny, tiny role. Oh, that's Jack Nance. So many, uh, actors, so many actors that you later see much more of in the eighties and nineties and so many who, oh, they brought back this person to this role. They're perfect. [00:20:35] Ian: It would be wonderful. This is where I'm going to have my first major complaint. It would've been wonderful if I could have understood that the first time, because this movie has, at least the copy I was able to watch had awful audio balancing. Oh, really? [00:20:52] Matthew: Oh, I didn't notice that. [00:20:54] Ian: So be careful with how you're watching this, because. Tried to watch this a couple ways. There's instances where the, the, the gunshots and the, the audio of all of that is super, super loud compared to very quiet speaking. [00:21:09] Matthew: Oh, that's interesting. It might be audio settings on the, the playback or something, but that's something we don't talk about very often. But it's worth mentioning is this is not a movie that is super easy to find. I, well, it's think that it actually can be easy to find. Well, it can be. I, I think there are DVDs out there available. Oh, I was, there's an [00:21:27] Ian: easier way [00:21:28] Matthew: I was able to buy a DVD on eBay and it won't play, so I'm not able to make a copy of that. I'm not able to, uh, watch that on my DVD player. I've tried it on two or three machines. But you discovered a place we could see it. [00:21:45] Ian: Yes, because apparently Warner Brothers classics have, Warner Brothers themselves have put up a variety of their films for free. On YouTube and City Heat is one of them. This is the one that had the worst audio balance, but it was the full film watchable. You just gotta be ready. If anybody has seen the, um, the film, uh, Jupiter ascending, you know, the kind of like be ready with your, um, volume knob back and forth, oh gosh. Between, between the audio and the action dialogue, you gotta do a bit of that, but that's, it's completely watchable here. It's just good to know. It is. It's, it's definitely one of those things where, like we we're finding older films and some of these, they're perfectly preserved, they're easy to get. Mm-hmm. You've had no trouble finding them. I've been able to find things too, but there are others where they are just vanishing. . So this is available That's at least nice. Yeah. So, [00:22:46] Matthew: so the rest of the plot then develops because Swift Murphy's partner, is into some shady business Yeah. That he thinks is gonna make him a whole lot of money and let him go off and have a wonderful life with his, fiance, played by the amazing Irene Cara. [00:23:04] Ian: Mm-hmm. [00:23:06] Matthew: But what he is doing is there are two big crime bosses in Kansas City. There's the number one, and there's the eager to take over. Number two, with their separate organizations and through dealing with a bookkeeper, the Jack Nance character I mentioned. Swift has gotten his hands on ledgers and documentation that are enough to put the guy who's number one away in prison for a long time, which of course means number two can then move up and take over the town. Oh. So he's made a deal to get these things from number one's bookkeeper, deliver them to number two, who can arrange to have number one taken off the board, but now of course, number two wants what he's paid for. Number one wants this stuff back so that he doesn't go to prison and lose his organization. And that's when we start getting into the violence where we've got people threatening Swift and his fiance with guns. There's a fight and Swift is killed. Yes. And his fiance's on the run. [00:24:17] Ian: Mm-hmm. . The thug kills him and takes the suitcase, but finds nothing in it. Yes. And gets more violent at that point. [00:24:25] Matthew: So the McGuffin isn't in the suitcase. We think it's in that everybody thought it was in. Mm-hmm. It's, it's off somewhere else. But in the meantime, it's kind of a Maltese Falcon situation where Murphy, the Pi has to do something about the fact that his partner was killed. But unlike in the Maltese Falcon where Sam Spade didn't really like his partner, but just had to do something with Murphy, it's more about the fact that he cares about the people involved. [00:24:54] Ian: Yeah. For Murphy. This is personal and this is protecting loved ones for Spear. This is a job and it is the way he does his part. Yeah. It's interesting 'cause this is a buddy story in that sense, but it's not got, they're not working together early on. There's a lot of Murphy leaves a scene and we watch his car pull away as Spear's car pulls up or vice versa. There's plenty of interesting scenarios and scenes here where we as the audience are not following one continuous line. We're kind of handed off. From one protagonist to the other and back again, and we pick up on the entire story doing that. There's a few moments where we'll see that something's about to happen and that Oh no, he's walking into a trap. Yeah, because we got to watch both sides of something and the character didn't. [00:25:54] Matthew: And that's one of the ways in which this shifts from one tone to another, so dramatically. And I can imagine Unsettlingly while, while I was watching it this time, I thought a few times of maybe learning to appreciate Manga makes it easier to appreciate this movie. First of all, the, the, the way it's shot, the color palette is this interesting. It's subdued, but slightly cartoony made me think of a good graphic novel. [00:26:21] Ian: Mm-hmm. But [00:26:21] Matthew: also that shift between the ridiculous and the jokey and the violent and the dramatic pathos and. It shifted in a way that American media doesn't often do. It usually picks a tone and stays there. Manga and things like that tend to bounce around more. And this had that kind of a feel to me. [00:26:40] Ian: I'm trying to put that together and imagine, and just, just the idea of Clint Eastwood and Burt Reynolds as anime protagonist kind of works. I guess now I wanna see like Burt Reynolds' Sid at a final fantasy game anyway. It depends on the game. [00:26:58] Matthew: Clint Eastwood would make a good Auron for the Final Fantasy 10 movie. [00:27:02] Ian: He would that Oh, the best Auron. Oh my goodness. You're right. Oh, that's brilliant. Okay. Yeah, it's got that very much, it bounces back and forth. Murphy will have this, , funny scene of, , speed talking someone for a moment and he'll leave and then Spear will walk in. There's seven men dead. And you're like, yes. Oh. Although actually it's actually more reversed. There's a lot of times when Murphy attempting to talk to someone gets a bunch of people killed. Yes. And that's what draws, Lieutenant Spear into the location. It bounces back and forth as we give, material to one and the other. And, who has the ledgers? Where are the ledgers who might know where the ledgers are, keeps happening. [00:27:48] Matthew: And they have different motivations in that. Spear is primarily about taking down these organized crime figures, as a police officer. For Murphy, it's more about getting justice for his partner, making sure the people he cares about are safe because Ginny, , Swift's fiance is still on the run and needs his help and she's being hunted by, the bad guys because they think she must know more. And also she's a witness to the killing of Swift and they need to get rid of her. So her role is really the drama part of the movie. [00:28:23] Ian: Mm-hmm. [00:28:24] Matthew: And yet we've also got another character. We've got Madeline Kahan playing Caroline Holy who is a socialite, and she is kind of an item with Murphy but they, try to keep their distance, but she wants there to be more and, . She's later kidnapped as leverage against Murphy. [00:28:44] Ian: Yes. Which [00:28:44] Matthew: is big news because she's, you know, part of a wealthy family, apparently. But then that becomes his big motivation is he's willing to give the bad guys what they want. If it means keeping, Caroline safe. [00:28:54] Ian: Exactly. The, the moment Caroline is in danger, all of the Oh. Back and forth. Ah, nah, it becomes immediately, no, he cares for Caroline. Right. [00:29:06] Matthew: Because if he, if he can find Ginny and get her somewhere safe, that, that has been dealt with. But once Caroline is kidnapped, the bad guys have the upper hand. [00:29:17] Ian: Mm-hmm. [00:29:18] Matthew: And with all of these pieces we've talked about, it does have a good plot. It is nicely complicated, and yet it's not that difficult to follow, or is it? [00:29:32] Ian: I found it very difficult to follow in the way it was presented. Hmm. Yeah. This is a film for whom the, the, the description and the breakdown make it a lot easier to follow mm-hmm. Compared to what you get in the actual film where that same and forth cut to this person, cut to that person change, which is our lead, who we're talking about now, and a lot of the fast talking and, slang that they use back and forth makes it harder to understand at first. Yes, the pace does not do any good things for this plot. And in a plot where you're dealing with kind of a, it's kind of a cup and ball game. There is a thing hidden and it is being moved around and there are multiple parties wanting it and such being able to track and understand what's where. It's very important. And so if you lose that, even once you can wind up watching the rest of the film, unable to get back into what's going on. [00:30:36] Matthew: Yeah, it has a plot that is good and just complicated enough and, and easy enough to follow. It turns that into something that is very much more jumbled and harder to follow. Because as you say, the way it's presented, the way it's, chopped up. And you're right about the pacing. I think the pacing is an issue here, partly because they do interject these very violent, gun battles and fights in a way that seems to shift us away from the comedic tone that so much of the movie's strength relies on. There's one fight as Ginny is running away from , the bad guys just after, , swift has been killed and Mike Murphy shows up. There's this long gun battle in the apartment building hallway, including a bit where one of the bad guys, who's a big guy, I forget how many bullets he winds up taking. [00:31:28] Ian: Yeah. And [00:31:29] Matthew: not falling down and keep continuing to come after Murphy and I, I think that was supposed to be comedy, but it didn't seem funny. It just seemed weird and grotesque after a bit, [00:31:44] Ian: You described the back and forth switching, being very manga and anime like before. There's something about the sudden violence followed by comedy that this is weird. Reminded me of watching certain kinds of streamers online. Huh? The kind who will play something like a Halo game and have these giant dramatic fights, and then over the cut scene of this grand war story, make horribly silly goofs and laugh with their friends. And that disconnect of violence and comedy works so much better in the extra layer of separation and the community laughing chat environment, right? All on the same screen. In a theater, it's jarring. [00:32:37] Matthew: Yeah. And in that streaming context, there's never a point at which you are supposed to be super emotionally invested as to what's happening in this game. You're watching a person play the game. Here. Exactly. You're, you're watching a movie, you're supposed to be invested in it. You're supposed to, uh, feel something for these people, and every eight or nine minutes the movie taps you on the shoulder and says, oh, don't forget, you're just watching a movie. You're not really supposed to care about these people. It's not that serious. It's not that important. Yeah. That's not doing yourself any favor movie. [00:33:07] Ian: No. That, that doesn't help at all. [00:33:10] Matthew: And it's even, there isn't even a consistent tone and presentation among the different fights. Sometimes we get a gunfight or, or a fist fight. That is, it is serious. It is gory. It is. It's, it's a brutal fight. Mm-hmm. Something you would see in another kind of Clint Eastwood movie. Yes. Other times you see a gun battle in the middle of the street and it is played more for comedy and it's like they make a point of, of showing how. Except for the person who was about to shoot a police officer. Everybody, including the bad guys, winds up getting away. Yeah. You know, some, we see somebody's jacket gets soaked in gasoline, and then there's a fire. We see him running around and hooting while he takes off his jacket and is able to run away. We see somebody else shot, from behind with a shotgun, but he just holds his rear end as he runs away and later we find out he's getting treated. [00:34:11] Ian: Yeah, that's [00:34:12] Matthew: that inconsistency, right? So if, if you're gonna have cartoonish, violence, fine, but you gotta be somewhat consistent through the movie. [00:34:20] Ian: A prime example for me also is this, the giant street fight, this giant gunfight in the street between a bunch of these gangsters. And Murphy and Spear walks in with a shotgun in a Clint Eastwood scene. They make fun of in that sense. [00:34:41] Matthew: Yes. And they have Murphy making fun of it [00:34:45] Ian: and Murphy making fun of it. The thing that threw me is watching an entire, an entire car explode in a action movie Fireball. And then as one of the other cars gets away, it hits a , fire hydrant and it's having Clint Eastwood with the, with this heavy firepower gun stand there as we watch the arc from the fire hydrant arch over him in the street and put out the other fire. And I'm like, every single bit of what's on the screen is violent action movie. Set pieces [00:35:27] Matthew: right, [00:35:28] Ian: and I am being shown a comedy moment using them. [00:35:32] Matthew: If every bit of the violence in this movie had that kind of tone, it would've been so much better because it would've been consistent. And I love that shot. It's a fun shot. It's so ridiculous and over the top, and yet it fits the character. It fits the, the tone that follows this character around. [00:35:46] Ian: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's one of two major moments that had me actually gawk and laugh for a second. [00:35:54] Matthew: And I like the fact that in the resolution scene after that, fight in the street we see Murphy and , spear there talking about what to do next. In the background, we see the fire department is there with a truck and they're just watching. They have no idea what to do. The fire is putting itself out. [00:36:11] Ian: Exactly. There's so many moments. That's another one of those moments where it's like, I think I see Blake Edwards original script peeking through. Mm-hmm. And it's never, it's never saying that Richard Benjamin did a bad job. It's just saying that this movie was built in a certain way and being filmed more generically in this sense. Yeah. Well, but generically didn't do it service. The, the middle of this movie is really just a giant back and forth with, , all of these, these violent, , fights and comedy bits interspersed. Like uneven chocolate chips across a cookie. [00:36:49] Matthew: And we've got checking off the boxes in terms of the plot points, finding out where, ginny is as she's trying to get away from the bad guys, but then she's hit by a car. Yeah. Out of nowhere plot wise. So she's in the hospital and she's unconscious with a concussion. And, uh, so she's kind of taken off the board for the movie's purposes. But again, it's, we've gone from these comedy scenes to this character, we care about suddenly being hospitalized in a very dramatically shot scene. This is not a slapstick, you know, goofy 1930s car is kind of a, a scene and then we, have finding the McGuffin finding where Swift really hid the ledgers and stuff. Oh, and by the way, we found out that the, the, the bookkeeper, he got these from his, his body was found in the river. So we know the stakes are high and Yeah. Then we've got this McGuffin and. Murphy and Addie figure out what these mean and why they were so important to the two mob bosses. And then, Madeline Kahn's character is kidnapped and Madeline Kahn does so much with, with a kind of a, a little throwaway role in this. Her scenes with Bert Reynolds, are great. And she's making it clear that, well, I'm afraid that I'm falling in love with you. And she's furious at him for not being able to return that. Yeah. And, but furious in a very comedic way, a very Madeleine Kahn way. You can very [00:38:13] Ian: excellently [00:38:14] Matthew: done. You compare this to the character she plays in Young Frankenstein as Frankenstein's fiance. Yes. And you can see, yeah, this is a type that she is playing. And there were some critics who didn't get the parody aspects of this movie of city Heat, and I think she makes it clear and plays it so well. [00:38:35] Ian: Interesting. That you are mentioning, the young Frankenstein, because for me it reminded me a whole lot more of her in clue. [00:38:43] Matthew: Yes. [00:38:43] Ian: Yes. Another great example, the flame, the flames on the side of my face scene. It had that same kind of like, I can make this work in such a fun way. No one else, no one else could deliver this line. I can make this line work. [00:39:02] Matthew: And we see later on she's been kidnapped, but she's being held in a nice room in a, uh, a high class bordello and she's playing poker against the gangsters who are assigned to watch her. And she's cleaning up. Yeah, she's winning that. [00:39:20] Ian: That's the thing. Playing poker is different than winning. Yes. In the comedy story, the prisoner is winning. Yes. That's the way you know. [00:39:28] Matthew: And a lot of that last act of the movie is finally Spear and Murphy teaming up to get the bad guys and save Caroline. [00:39:42] Ian: Yeah. [00:39:42] Matthew: And [00:39:42] Ian: that, [00:39:43] Matthew: I wonder if this is going, I'm wondering if this is the scene that you said was the other one that you thought was funny. The scene where Murphy drives through the garage door to the bad guy's hide out and he's got the suitcase that he says has the ledgers and stuff in it. But he says it's got, he says it's really got a bomb in it that he killed me. I let go. No. 'cause I thought that was good because we finally get Clint Eastwood and Burt Reynolds kind of on the same side. Yeah. In their quipping versus the bad guys. And Spear comes into a scene where Murphy's holding a suitcase. The bad guy's holding a gun, but he's pointing the gun at the suitcase. Yes. Look, that is, I'm crazy. He's the guy who's got the drop on the luggage. [00:40:29] Ian: See, there's a lot of fun in there. The, for me, the scene was when during, I, I'm trying, I think it was during that firefight. You have Clint Eastwood pull out the long barreled, revolver, Dirty Harry style and start shooting the bad guys there. And Bert Reynolds sees that and kind of s like, oh, come on man. And then he reaches into his own and pulls out another gun with an even longer and larger barrel. Then Clint Eastwood pulls out a , a third gun that is bigger than both of the other two. And it was this, this literal back and forth between them, but it is so well done because it made, it was a perfect inversion and it was a perfect example of what this movie is doing. Clint Eastwood literally pulls out a reference to one of his older films Yes. Out of his pocket. And it's, [00:41:24] Matthew: it's a revolver with a [00:41:25] Ian: ridiculously long barrel, ridiculously long. Burt Reynolds, the comedian of the two more immediately playing his role, pulls the joke on him, and then with a smile, Clint Eastwood gets to be the comedian back. It's a silly and juvenile scene in the film. It is a perfect moment of seeing that. I think both of these actors had a great time in this film. [00:41:53] Matthew: I think so. I'd like to think so. I don't not, I'm not sure given some of what I've heard about the production here, but it comes across on screen as if they did. [00:42:02] Ian: Yes. [00:42:03] Matthew: Yeah. And, and yet that sequence that you just talked about, that bit, it's in the middle of this long, too long bloody gunfight that follows that comedic scene I mentioned a moment ago. All that. Yeah. Rapid whiplash of tone that this movie has. [00:42:18] Ian: That whiplash is so prevalent there because by that point you're burning out, I think. Mm-hmm. This movie is, uh, thrown you back and forth between comedy and violent action. Not just between comedy and action, but violent action, which is a very different kind of visual and storytelling to go through. And I've seen films that can balance those better. This one, each transition is abrupt. [00:42:50] Matthew: So the plot is finally resolved or eventually resolved as they learn the location where? Caroline Madeline Kahn is being held. And they learned that from one of the guys who ran away from the earlier gun battle in the street. And they learned it from him with implied extremely violent interrogation techniques. Yeah. Again, very creepy. It's like, suddenly, I don't like these characters. Why am I rooting for them? Mm-hmm. And it's not enough to say, well, he's interrogating a bad guy still, you know? [00:43:21] Ian: Yeah. [00:43:22] Matthew: And [00:43:24] Ian: a little bit Dirty Harry justification in there. Yes, [00:43:27] Matthew: yes. And yet it's Mike who's taking part in that, at least as much as, uh, as Spear. [00:43:32] Ian: Mm-hmm. But [00:43:33] Matthew: they eventually find out she's being held in this high class bordello, and that's when we get to see that she's winning on in poker. And then we get another set of very comedic scenes as they infiltrate the bordello. They take out the, the guys who are, uh, on lookout, Murphy disguises himself. In a, a big bad wolf getup that is being used in one of the recreation rooms in the bordello. Yeah. Going room to room, trying to find where, uh, Caroline's being held. [00:44:05] Ian: I once again, tone. Yes. Wildly oscillating, [00:44:12] Matthew: but eventually they find out where she is and they save her. And, uh, the, one of the two mob bosses died in the earlier gunfight. [00:44:22] Ian: Mm-hmm. [00:44:23] Matthew: And as they're, saving, Caroline and, things seem to be resolved. The other mob boss shows up because he's kidnapped Addie as his insurance or bargaining chip, and he wants the goods from Murphy. [00:44:38] Ian: Yeah. [00:44:40] Matthew: And there's a back and forth about. What should be done here, and between Addie and Spear, there was also this constant, they're both interested. They should be an item. When is he going to come to his senses and do something about that? [00:44:57] Ian: Yes. Which is an interesting thing. It's, it's kind of fun to have the, if they're not already on the same side, there's the element of like, I'm d like I don't like you. I'm dating your employee as part of the, the interaction between Spear and Murphy. But with all of the back and forth, it really falls to the wayside. [00:45:22] Matthew: Yeah. And it's interesting. They make their world kind of a very small world with all these different connections among people. And maybe that's something that works in that it is a 1933 Kansas City. It might not have seemed as plausible in a place like New York at the time. Yeah. There's too much going on. Not that New York is in a lot of tiny neighborhoods, but still, [00:45:42] Ian: it, it adds something when it's got that limited factor. [00:45:46] Matthew: So eventually, spear agrees to let Murphy hand over the suitcase with the ledgers supposedly. [00:45:54] Ian: Mm-hmm. [00:45:55] Matthew: To, uh, to the bad guy. And Addie is free. [00:45:59] Ian: And the suitcase is booby trapped, like he said. Yes. [00:46:06] Matthew: As Spear is saying, one of these days I'm gonna get him and Murphy's saying, oh, I think it's gonna be sooner rather than later. [00:46:12] Ian: I do love the fact that the entire setup of, you know, oh, booby trapped suitcase early on. Is legit. This is a movie that if it says something's gonna be, it doesn't fake out the audience in that sense. [00:46:26] Matthew: And apparently Spear believed it. 'cause his only comment was, I thought you said you diffused that. Yeah. [00:46:32] Ian: But it ends with everybody together at the club listening, and then Murphy starts a fight, and so it kind of ends with a version of the first opening. [00:46:45] Matthew: It does. And yet the fight that Murphy starts in the club, it's not like he's defending himself against someone the way you could say he is in the diner. At the beginning, Murphy just starts to pick on some short guys for no good reason. [00:47:02] Ian: Yeah. Really felt like, oh no, we need an ending. [00:47:05] Matthew: Yeah. It was really, oh, we need to end on the similar note to the beginning. So how do we make him pick a fight? How do we get him into a fight? We'll have him pick a fight. Well, that's not the kind of character he was. He, it seemed to me that previously Murphy would pick a fight if he had a reason to. [00:47:21] Ian: Yeah. He didn't really have a reason this time. Yep. [00:47:26] Matthew: But it's, it is another fight and we see that same character quirk of Spears where he'll just watch all the stuff going on around him until it affects him like it did at the beginning. He didn't get into the fight to help Murphy until his coffee was spilled during the big gun battle in the street. He was just sitting in his car watching all this happen until a stray bullet cracks his windshield and then he gets out and takes the street sweeper outta the back of his car and marches down the street. Mm-hmm. Here in this one, it's interesting. The one bit I like is that we see Murphy playing that Yeah. Murphy has, has picked this fight, but now he's in over his head. He needs help. Spear's not doing a thing, so Murphy grabs Spear's drink and spills it in his lap. And that's when Spear gets up and joins the fight. [00:48:11] Ian: And he joins the fight as much because No, no, no. Now I'm the man who kills Murphy. Yeah. None of you get to Now I get to. [00:48:18] Matthew: Right. And they, they're kicked out. They go out in the street, they, again, they square off as if they're gonna finally settle things and they don't. And they never resolved the mutual chips on the shoulders. But it seems clear that it's that disloyalty, that spear felt about Murphy leaving when they were partners. Yes. Great line when Swift has been killed, and , spear is , saying to Murphy, I didn't, know you and Swift were so close. Well, he was my partner. Yeah, I know he was, yeah. That's, that is one of those lines. It makes it clear what Spear has against Murphy. [00:48:56] Ian: Mm-hmm. But I think we're coming to our end 'cause we're at the end of the narrative. But yeah, just trying, just trying to piece through it there. You can feel how we were moving around a lot. [00:49:10] Matthew: Yeah. I think we'll have more to say as we talk about whether or not we recommend watching this movie or what should come next. [00:49:16] Ian: Yes. [00:49:18] Matthew: But first, if you're enjoying the Inter Millennium Media Project podcast and you wanna support the IMMP, please go to immproject.com and that's where you will find all of our back episodes. But it's also where you will find our Patreon, where you can join us and starting at $3 a month, you get additional bonus audio content. And also you'll find our shop if you like things like t-shirts and fun coffee mugs and notebooks and. Fun things like that. Also on immproject.com is where you will find ways to contact us. You can contact us by email. You can join our Discord to discuss movies and the podcast and anything else that, revolves around the greater IMMP universe. And you can also reach us by honest to goodness physical mail at our post office box. But the best way to support us, share with your friends. Give us five star reviews on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Help spread the word. Exactly. And Ian, where can people find you? [00:50:16] Ian: Oh, I can be found at itemcrafting.com or itemcraftinglive on Twitch. I stream every Thursday, starting at 7:30 PM Mountain Standard Time or Mountain Time in general? Uh, actually let me retake that. Sure. I can be found@itemcrafting.com or item crafting live on Twitch. I stream every Thursday at seven 30 Mountain time. Uh, start out with some chow garden and then play games and do crafts from there. Recently we've been playing through mostly Delta Rune, which is pretty awesome. Cool. How about you dad? [00:50:54] Matthew: You can find me at ByMatthewPorter.com. That's your, where you'll find links to whatever I'm doing online as well as my blog. And, uh, there, or@drafthousediary.com, you will find my YouTube channel, which has reviews of movies and movie theater experiences and the occasional travel destination. [00:51:15] Ian: Aha. Excellent. Fun. [00:51:17] Matthew: So I guess we are down to our final questions. We are, well, it's a movie City Heat from 1984. Screen or no screen? What do you recommend? I [00:51:31] Ian: gotta say no screen. Oh, this movie just didn't do anything for me by the end of it. Like I understood all the pieces, but there's the concept of something that's greater than the sum of its parts, and somehow this one was less than the sum of its parts for me, if I want a film that has the quick talking comedy stylings with a detective, I'll go watch who framed Roger Rabbit. Hmm. If I want a violent action movie that balances its comedy, I'm gonna actually go back and just watch Bullet Train from 2022. I want an an, uh, older action hero making reference to a bunch of his, uh, previous work and media genre tropes in general. I might go try watching Last Action Hero before I watch City Heat. This film just did not land for me. And I'm kind of surprised by that. But it wasn't, it wasn't a great experience to watch. [00:52:37] Matthew: I understand that completely. I would say screen, but not as strongly, not as, uh, as much as I might've expected to. Because going back to when this was originally released, and I saw it in a theater, probably on an opening weekend, I was a big defender of this movie because I read so many reviews that didn't get it, that didn't understand what a parody this was, that it was intended to be a commentary on Reynolds movies and characters and Clint Eastwood movies and characters. And I rolled with the tone changes and things pretty well. And I'm still a defender of this movie. I still think this movie deserves more credit and attention than it gets, I. But I can't say that rewatching it again decades later. I, [00:53:29] Matthew: it was not as completely positive a movie viewing experience as I remembered it having been back then. I saw more flaws in this movie. So I say screen and I still defend this movie, but I'm not going to argue against people who point out it's flaws. [00:53:47] Ian: That makes some sense. [00:53:49] Matthew: And that brings us to, our next question, which is revive, reboot, or rest in peace. That's a hard thing, hard one. It is, isn't it? Yeah. This is such a unique artifact of its time and its leads. [00:54:03] Ian: Yeah. In some ways I'm, I'm sad to say that, I think that this is something that. Gets revived in that sense, but it's revived in terms of method, not story. There are plenty of things with big name actors that try to do exactly what city he was doing red notice recently. Yes. Things like that. There's films out there that do exactly this and they are not always effective. [00:54:42] Matthew: I would say that , the Fast and Furious presents, Hobbes and Shaw Yes. Is an attempt to do this. The problem with that is you've got these two actors who are known for specific kinds of action ca characters, and they're both kind of the Clint Eastwood character. Yes. Don't have the contrast of a Burt Reynolds versus a Clint Eastwood that City Heat had. And that's one of the ways in which I. There were some good things about Hobbes and Shaw, but so much of it seemed very flat because it was too similar tropes trying to bounce off each other. [00:55:20] Ian: I don't think you can really do city heat again. I think the story itself, you know, if you were to put new actors into those roles and try making this film again, you'd probably change enough stuff by the end that it's not city heat anymore, it's a different film. I think that the time period and the place and the style are worth trying for this kind of collaboration . I think we're gonna keep seeing things that are trying to do what this did, but you really need the balance. Actually, the thing that those movies can learn from City Heat is, this was Burt Reynolds who's more comedic, getting to play more action, and this is Clint Eastwood. More action, getting to play some comedy. You can't do it with two of the same, because part of the point of something like this is you need to let them trade. [00:56:18] Matthew: Well, this just in from our producer, Mrs. Darling wife, Deadpool and Wolverine. Yeah. That's the closest we have seen in decades, maybe since 1984. [00:56:35] Ian: It really is because in Deadpool and Wolverine, Deadpool gets to actually be some more cathartic action man, hero he does, and not just the comedy man. And you get to see the, this version of Wolverine that's been on the screen for decades, crack jokes in a way that he hasn't otherwise. That's the perfect, that is a great example. [00:57:00] Matthew: Yeah. I mean, dead Deadpool isn't a, isn't a parody. He is already a parody. So he's not parodying other Deadpool like roles, but Wolverine, he is def they're definitely playing on that cynical seriousness of Logan. [00:57:13] Ian: Yes, and actor wise, that is a film that lets everybody trade genres. I'd say that, you know, I. There's no, I I'm not suggesting watching City Heat as a viewer at any time, but if you're a writer, if you're a director that has two actors who each want to expand their horizons, watching City Heat gives you an idea of how to get two actors to trade pieces of their persona so that they can both go off into new directions and it tells you how to not do parts of that so that you don't fumble the opportunity you've got. [00:57:55] Matthew: If there was going to be a reboot of this movie, this might have been, you know, I think this is, uh, in line with what you were getting at. If you wanted to do a reboot of this movie, it would be interesting to see a, a director take this and maybe modify the script if they have to, but pick a tone, tell this plot as a serious detective story, or lean into the cartoonishness and stay there. And I think either one of those might be more successful. [00:58:21] Ian: Yeah. I'm, I'm trying to think of who you could see this , done with now. [00:58:29] Matthew: Yeah, that's the thing. You'd have to find actors who have established a type in the way that Reynolds and Clint Eastwood had. And that's harder to come by, [00:58:37] Ian: weirdly enough. Um, I could see something like this working with Daniel Craig and someone like. Okay. This is gonna sound really weird. If you wanted to put like Daniel Craig and Simon Peg. Oh, that could work. Working together could do really well because both of them have shown just enough of the skill on the other one's thing. Yes. They could get that crossover to work. It's not a completely new path for either. Mm-hmm. But it would give them a chance to flex things. [00:59:23] Matthew: Yeah. [00:59:23] Ian: You'd have to get that right combination of two people that would spark the right energy and has the right tone in their history. [00:59:32] Matthew: Yes. Willam Defoe would be another interesting actor to bring in. I'm not sure who I would pair him with. Yeah. Hmm. So there, there are possibilities there. I think it'd be it. It's always interesting to see a movie that plays with types and tropes in that way. I don't think we're going to see it as a remake of City Heat. But I think we'll see that approach to movies continue. [00:59:57] Ian: Yeah. Oh, no, I know who it would be. Yeah. Willem Defoe and Michael Serra. [01:00:05] Matthew: Michael Serra. Oh, that's somebody who's, is so, so much more early in his career. Has he really established a trope, but I guess if anybody of that age has, he has, mm-hmm. Has he, has he established a type? I mean,. Michael, Sarah is so much younger. Has he really established a type? But I guess if anybody at that age has, he has [01:00:23] Ian: Exactly. That's why I was like, I was trying to find like the, the, the person with enough history, but not, not too much to start and broaden. Yeah. He's, but he's got variety too. So there's a lot of options though. Yeah, there are. But in, in some ways, city heat is more an example of a, a sub-genre of film than it is its own thing in that sense. Right. It is the. The, the Stars collision, which we've been able to pull multiple other examples of already. Mm-hmm. [01:00:54] Matthew: So it's very specifically a culmination of a certain kind of seventies movie. [01:00:59] Ian: Exactly. [01:01:01] Matthew: Well, this was fun. I really wasn't sure how you were going to respond to this. I wanted to get your take on it, and I was interested in seeing it again because it had been so long. [01:01:11] Ian: Hey, it's been fun. I mean, I, it was, it was not my favorite movie, but I always enjoy getting to see things like this because it lets us have these discussions and think about what that, what that was made for and how. [01:01:26] Matthew: Mm-hmm. Well, we hope that you've enjoyed this conversation. Listeners, thank you very much for joining us for this episode of the Inter Millennium Media Project podcast. And, uh, we will be back in a couple of weeks with more tales of media from the 20th century. [01:01:42] Ian: In the meantime, go find something new to watch.