Bradley Carpenter (00:05)
Hello, happy Friday. Welcome to The Unscripted Files. My name is Madeline Cunningham. I'm a development producer in the unscripted entertainment industry, bringing you candid conversations with the minds behind your favorite form of entertainment. happy Valentine's Day to those who celebrate. Happy Galentine's Day to those who celebrate. I hope you have a lot of love in your life today, no matter who it's from, your friends, your romantic partner, your pets, the community you've built, and from yourself. There you go.

Today we have a really interesting conversation. I have a friend, working partner and prolific producer who started her career doing escaping polygamy and went on to do secrets of polygamy. She has a ton of other shows under her belt guys, Fixer to Fabulous, Design Down Under, everything you could think of But I want to talk to her about

How do you infiltrate a cult? What is it like? How dangerous is it? How do you build trust with these subjects? especially considering that documentary, like these things take so long. And I think a lot of people have questions about this type of sort of investigative filmmaking. So anyway, I'm really excited for you to listen to this. Here is my conversation.

with Aurelia Boyle.

Madelyn (01:23)
Hey Aurelia, welcome to the unscripted files.

Aurelia Boyle (01:27)
Hi, thank you for having me.

Madelyn (01:28)
Of course, well, you know it or not, but I think I've told you, I really view you as such a mentor to me. Aurelia the first person to take a chance on me with one of my show ideas many, many years ago and has just so graciously guided me through so much of my career. And so you were one of the first people that I wanted to chat with

Aurelia Boyle (01:48)
you, that is kind of you. And we could see right away at RIVR that you had so much potential. So I'm so glad that our partnership continues on. I am happy to do whatever you ask, which is why I'm sitting here right now.

Madelyn (02:02)
I love it. I love it. Well, talk to me about, me what you do right now. So you mentioned RIVR Media. So talk to me about your role there and sort of the iconic shows that listeners would know of that you're a part

Aurelia Boyle (02:16)
Yeah, okay, so I work for RIVR Media. We are an unscripted television production company based in Knoxville, Tennessee. I work remotely, live in LA, and I have been with them for a long time, over 10 years, which is, I think, rare in this industry, it's just one of those companies where people tend to stick around forever because they have such a nice work culture, nice office culture, and when you find something like that, especially...

As a working mom, you tend to stick with it. So I've been with them for a really long time. I started at RIVR, they were probably best known for doing lifestyle shows. They were just down the road from what was then Scripps what would eventually become Discovery Communications. naturally they were doing a lot of stuff for DIY. At that time, HGTV, there was no Magnolia yet, but they were doing stuff for Food Network, Great American Country.

and they had a really successful business doing those types of shows. One of my mandates when I started with RIVR was let's expand, let's diversify. And that ended up being a really smart call on their part because I think to stay afloat in this industry, you really need to be able to do a lot of different things and it's very easy to get pigeon-holed. So we right away decided to go after True Crime. It was a passion of mine and it was just something that we kind of fell into.

I developed a show called Escaping Polygamy. At that time it was for Lifetime Movie Network actually, which I don't think is around anymore. And we ended up selling it. It bounced around between A &E, Lifetime Proper, we did multiple seasons, and the rest is history. It was sort of our first foray into the true crime space. it ended up being a really good thing for us and we're still...

doing a lot of programming in that world. It was a story that really resonated with viewers and I think still does.

Madelyn (04:10)
I mean, even right now, we know that polygamy is a extremist part of the Mormon LDS religion. But even that world in pop culture right now with secret lives of Mormon wives, keep sweet, pray and obey. I mean, there's a lot around that particular part of the country and that religion right now. And you guys are obviously doing secrets of polygamy as well. So

you know, back when you were first getting into this, why this? you just fascinated by it? Had you heard about it, read an article about it? Why this particular, of polygamy? And did you make contact? How does that even work for producers out there who are in a similar situation where they are wanting to sort of, I don't know, infiltrate a group or tell a story? Like, how did you go about doing that?

Aurelia Boyle (04:44)
Come.

Yeah, mean, know, it is kind of interesting. initially had read an essay by a woman who was, I think at that time, probably in her 60s. She was a grandmother at that point. She had grown up in a polygamous group and she had written this essay about what it was like to grow up in this world, how she ended up leaving and why she was an activist now to help women get out of this community.

I was just so blown away by what she had to say. First of all, I was fascinated. I did not know a ton about polygamy, although back in the day I had read Under the Banner of Heaven, so I knew a little bit about it. I was always fascinated by it. But hearing her story from a woman's perspective, which I think was important, it really resonated with me. And just her commitment to activism.

women's empowerment resonated with me. Those two themes, even though I did not grow up in a world at all similar, those are two things that I always, those were touchstones in my life. So I reached out to her, a cold call and said, hey, I love what you had to write. I'm really fascinated by this world. Can we talk? That began a series of conversations and eventually she invited us out to Salt Lake.

to meet with some of her contacts. she had no interest herself in being in front of the camera and frankly, not even behind the camera. She just was a part of this real life underground railroad that was helping people get out of these communities. introduced us at the time to three young women who were sisters. had grown up in the order, which is a polygamous cult. It's essentially a crime family.

different times in their childhood, they had escaped. A couple of them had grown up in the foster system they escaped as adolescents. And they had made this pact before they escaped. I think they made this pact when they were like seven or eight years old. It's really extraordinary that if they ever made it out, if they ever survived, they were going to come together and help other people. And so at that time of meeting them, had just been reunited. They were young adults.

And, you know, they were very much interested in having a platform so they could number one, tell their story and number two, help others. So it was really kind of this fateful thing. will say, you know, my boss, Lori Stryer, the CEO of RIVR, was instrumental in fostering a relationship with these women and figuring out, you know, they have a powerful message. How do we turn that into a show that's both informative

entertaining, empowering. I like to think of Escaping Polygamy as a little bit of a Trojan horse, right? I would say it's less about Mormonism, it's less about religion, and it's more about domestic violence. at the end of the day, that's what these women, children, and even these boys, young men, are going through. And that is an epidemic in this country, except we were able to fold it into this story that's essentially a thrilling crime drama. It's a cult story, but it's...

Madelyn (07:53)
yeah.

Aurelia Boyle (08:10)
It's very core. It really is about domestic violence. And so for that reason, I'm proud. It's hard to tell those kinds of stories on television. They tend to be dark. Nobody wants to buy something like that. Again, all credit due to the team at RIVR and Lori, they were able to wrap these very sort of serious themes in something that was exciting, that was watchable, and but it also had a moral urgency to it.

Madelyn (08:36)
Absolutely. It's so I love that you said that because ultimately you can watch this and maybe not relate because you aren't part of a fundamentalist group. But so many women can relate to feeling controlled, watched, manipulated, abused. I it's there is such a relatability in that way. I was actually watching a few episodes before we hopped on

Aurelia Boyle (08:36)
And that's really it, yeah.

Madelyn (09:02)
You're right. There was such a empowerment angle, even with the daughters talking to their own mother, who totally recognized what it was, but couldn't seem to really get out. when you guys first out there and were meeting with them, was it had to be super careful? It was really secret? How did you go about navigating?

that place and that world and trying to make sure you kept everything on the down low.

Aurelia Boyle (09:32)
know, when you are storytelling in this world, you have to be cautious. is sort of a secretive element. to, you know, Lori and the team can tell you that there were some frightening incidents while they were actually shooting the series. I think at one point someone had, you know, bashed out the windows to their production van. you know, it's the threat is real.

you are exposing...

groups and shining a light on something and people aren't going to like that. You have to sort of take precautions. you also have to be mindful of, you know, the brave men and women who choose to tell their story. You how can you protect them as well? had some really great partners in the field. Matt and Tawni Browning are a investigative duo. They're also a married couple. Matt was

former law enforcement had worked undercover together they had taken down of the biggest skinhead groups in the country so they're like this dynamic husband wife investigative duo came onto the show they're also

They're also mainstream LDS and just really sort of kind, wonderful, moral people. They came into this world and I have to say, know, one thing they brought to the table was not only did they help sort of inform kind of the security aspect of what they were doing, they also kind of put their heart and souls into this community. They really kind of felt for these individuals. They kind of stepped up and said, you know, whether or not cameras are present, we want to help these folks.

it's become a passion of theirs and it's something that even when the cameras are off even in between us doing shows about this world Matt and Tawni are immersed in it. So I would say, you know, there's much a part of this as anything our ears to the ground.

and now have become kind of a conduit into this community. And it's really rooted in something for them that is pure, which is, you know, we're just here to help. You know, we care about doing what's right for people. We saw a group that was, you know, underrepresented, but also being kind of victimized, you know, and, you know, we wanna help. So that was a big part of it. think having someone like Lori, who is so bold as a storyteller and willing to take risks and then having...

You know, two people like Matt and Tawni who are so knowledgeable about this world, but also so caring and ready to invest themselves in it. I would say those are kind of three pillars that have allowed us to not only tell stories in this world, but sort of maintain a reputation as a production company, producers that can be trusted.

Madelyn (12:02)
there are so many parts of like in true crime and recreation and storytelling just in this world in general that like there are like moral and ethical things to deal with. And the fact that

it's so important to you to leave it better than you found it. And that through this series, there was actual genuine support happening that continues. It wasn't just like pop in, capture, thanks a lot, bye. It's so important because have to be responsible with these types of stories. These are people's real lives. And that can't be lost on.

Aurelia Boyle (12:32)
Yeah.

Madelyn (12:38)
to sell the concept or sell the show or get the entertainment. And I love that you so clearly important it is to not only gain the trust of these people, but to earn it as well and to ensure that you're careful with it.

Aurelia Boyle (12:49)
Yeah.

Absolutely. I think, you know, on Secrets of Polygamy, that was something that suddenly became, know, it was something RIVR had done even from the beginning. And now sort of the corporate culture is catching up. But on Secrets to Polygamy, it was important to the network and to us to have an aftercare policy, when the cameras are off, you know, and you have you have gracefully shared your story with us, if there are needs that you have, how can we help with those? know, and also what to do when you encounter

you know, situations that could be problematic. What's your responsibility a production company? We thought through all of those things, it was so important to us and it's still important to us. right. There are a lot of sort of ethical issues and we've always tried to be very mindful and honestly just kind of, you know, it really just comes down to acting like decent human beings.

Madelyn (13:38)
sounds like something a woman would make, I'm not gonna lie. It sounds like.

Aurelia Boyle (13:41)
Yeah, and maybe that's part

of it.

Madelyn (13:44)
woman

founded production company, I can't lie, but I absolutely love that. think it is so crucial, especially today in age where ultimately audiences are smart. Like they know what's happening, right? And they're being more discerning about what they're watching and if it's ethical, if it's moral. And so I love that that was like, it's such a priority for you guys as a production company and as a producer.

Aurelia Boyle (13:55)
Yeah.

Yeah, and it was, you know, the actual...

policy and a lot of those kind of questions and answers to those questions. We thought those through deeply with another partner of ours, a woman named Ashley Easter, who is an activist and she also is the founder of a nonprofit called Courage 365 that specifically helps people who are coming out of religious abuse, men and women. And her story is, you know, she's not just an activist, she's also a survivor herself. So she was really able to help us shape the

those

policies and it was important for us to kind of not just make this stuff up out of thin air, but talk to somebody who's a real expert in this arena. So again, it was just, it was great to be able to kind of, you know, reach out to somebody who knew better than us. And I think that's a key to this too. It's, you know, you sort of rely on people that are a little bit smarter than you and you have an expertise and we've never been afraid to, we've never been afraid to do that and sort of form these collaborative relationships.

Madelyn (15:04)
totally. It's, I mean, it's the old adage of like, if you can't do it yourself, hire someone who will. And I think in the age of production budgets plummeting and going down, I think the fact that you guys still prioritize these roles need to be filled. These, need to bring these in to, you know, consult with us on certain issues. Like I think that is incredibly important because it's real life. Like you said, it's real stuff. And,

I just think that's absolutely incredible. many, so from escaping polygamy to now secrets of, you maintain relationships with these individuals for the past few years or, some of them are still in secrets of like how have you brought that forward?

Aurelia Boyle (15:43)
Yeah, absolutely.

Well, I mean, we maintain relationships, but I will say, you know, once again, Matt and Tawni and specifically Tawni Browning is someone who just, you know, I think she fell in love with the strength of this community of survivors and has maintained these really, you know, deep friendships.

Madelyn (15:52)
Mm-hmm.

Aurelia Boyle (16:04)
and collaborations with these individuals. So when the opportunity to do secrets of polygamy came up, of course, Tani was in on the ground floor with that and drawing from her relationships that she's invested in over the years. So yes, between the two, you may see some familiar faces. It was also an opportunity for us to platform other individuals who had stories that they hadn't told before, other people who maybe weren't ready to talk then, but were ready to talk now.

And yeah, I I think those relationships are everything, which again, sort of points to, you know, we want to collaborate with people who not only have a story to tell, but it will benefit them to tell that story.

know, individuals like Rachel Jeffs, who is, you know, not just a survivor, but also an activist and this and a writer and somebody who really has a mission, you know, as much as we can do to kind of provide her with a platform, you know, to do that. It's it benefits us both ways.

Madelyn (17:09)
since the show came out, do you, have you heard any stories or do you know anything about if it's increased the number of women and people who are leaving these groups,

Aurelia Boyle (17:20)
I mean, I think from when we first started to tell this story to today, a lot has happened in these communities, you know, in the FLDS specifically, which is what most people think of when they think of polygamous, you know, the prairie dresses, the long braids. Warren Jeffs is in prison now there is.

Madelyn (17:34)
Mm-hmm.

Aurelia Boyle (17:38)
There's much more scrutiny towards that group than there was 10 years ago, certainly 20 years ago. So a lot has changed. There's still a lot of abuses happening. think, you know, listen, I think it's always important to shine a light on injustices. And, you know, I don't think for these folks the fight's ever going to be over. When we started to do Secrets of Polygamy, you one of the people that Tawni first spoke with was actually a New York Times or maybe it was a Washington Post journalist. He was a really, really smart guy who

who

had been covering this world for many, many years. And when Tawni asked him, you know, why is it so important for you to tell these stories? You know, he said for him, it was about the idea of theocracy, right? These individuals have created these kind of microcosms where, you know, it is essentially a theocracy. And these people were controlling women, children, and men under the guise of religion.

And he felt like there were greater implications for all of us, that there are things that were happening in these communities that we need to watch out for, even on a sort of a macro level. I think there's a lot of reasons to keep shining the light. while it may seem like sort of a passive thing to do, just telling stories, we're not out there changing legislation putting people in jail or arresting people, we're not law enforcement, but I do think it has those greater implications later. And certainly for some of these individuals that we feature on Escaping Polygamy

Madelyn (18:39)
Mm.

Aurelia Boyle (19:03)
me,

you know, those women did go on to speak before the legislature and actually enact bills and laws that made it tougher to get away with stuff. So, you know, providing them with a platform to do that, I think, you know, is a small piece of what they went on to do.

Madelyn (19:22)
is incredibly powerful. I mean, try to get someone to tune in to C-SPAN to pay attention to something or tune into something on Lifetime or True Crime. mean, look at, frankly, what even a scripted show has done for the Menendez brothers. Like, I mean, it is absolutely, powerful when everyone...

Aurelia Boyle (19:35)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Madelyn (19:40)
in a story and feels connected. you're And Warren Jeffs is in jail. there's more work to do, certainly. I mean, you mentioned like getting your car door bashed in. I mean, was there any other sort of

moments when you like you were confronted by anyone? Was it awkward ever?

Aurelia Boyle (19:58)
With Secrets of Polygamy, think the Order or the Kingston group did come out with a statement, you know, obviously with their their position denying any wrongdoing, also saying that the show wasn't very good, which I thought was hilarious.

Madelyn (20:02)
Mm.

you're a critic,

you're a critic now, okay.

Aurelia Boyle (20:17)
It was also

kind of like critical from a creative perspective, which the piece that surprised me. So yeah, I mean, you know, they're allowed to say their piece. We're allowed to say our piece. But for the most part, it's been okay. You know, I think that's the thing of just standing in a ray of light. That alone kind of protects you, right? You know, sort of put it out there for everyone to see. It's what happens in the shadows that you have to worry about. But I think, you know, and that's what we tried to...

Madelyn (20:35)
Hmm.

Aurelia Boyle (20:44)
you know, that's what we try to do. think sometimes people feel actually more comfortable sharing if they've got sort of a spotlight on them, you know, just air it all out. So yeah, I mean, there have been incidents, but I think for the most part, you know, we've been rewarded for sort of being bold and just putting it out there. So it's been, you on the whole, I would say it's more positive than negative.

Madelyn (21:08)
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I know it can be. There's been a few things I've pursued that have felt, one that you and I talked about way early on, a particular community that I grew up around. was, I'm going to be honest with you, too scared to do it.

Aurelia Boyle (21:19)
Mm-hmm.

Madelyn (21:25)
And I, but I think it's so crucial and so important. So just the bravery to kind of get in there. And I also think, you know, I don't know the timing of when you reached out versus when you guys started filming, but it takes a long time to make the connections, to create the relationships, to understand environment and the people and not just, you know, like I said, show up and of disrupt everyone's daily lives. so having that patience and

Aurelia Boyle (21:36)
takes a long time. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Madelyn (21:53)
wherewithal to stick with it for an extended amount of time I think is so important.

Aurelia Boyle (21:57)
It is hard because, and you know, they have to stick with it too for, you know, there are folks that we talked about and it wasn't until like a year later that we actually ended up getting them on camera. And you sort of have to preface it with maybe this will go nowhere. You know, you're sort of taking this chance, talking to me, telling your story, and I'm going to try as hard as I can.

Madelyn (22:00)
Right?

Aurelia Boyle (22:19)
to create an opportunity for your story to be told far and wide, but I may not be successful. And that's part of it too, you know, being honest with people and saying, you're taking a chance, I'm taking a chance, let's try this. It may go nowhere or it may go everywhere. Are you prepared for either scenario? And just being totally honest with people from the get-go. I think that's super important, especially in an industry where like ours where it's so unpredictable.

Madelyn (22:43)
a hundred percent. I took a couple of notes from you that type of language because early on I was developing and I was to people and you know, the immediate question is like, well, when is it coming out and what's gonna happen and who's gonna see it? And there's a lot of interest around how much exposure they're going to get or wanting to predict sort of certain things immediately. And I, a producer just got really comfortable again, taking a note from your book of just saying,

Aurelia Boyle (22:59)
Yeah.

Madelyn (23:09)
I don't know, but we're gonna swing for the fences. Like we're gonna do the thing, we're gonna tell a story and we're gonna see what happens. as long as we are like authentic and honest, we know we've done our part and the other stuff we'll see. And I just became really you know, cause I was like casting really, really good friends and, and know, certain things. And I was like, how do I communicate with them that it may or may not, you know, go somewhere or when I'm speaking to a subject and they're nervous.

Aurelia Boyle (23:12)
Mm-hmm.

Madelyn (23:36)
How do I talk to them about these things where don't even know. I don't know where it will go or what will happen. You just get comfortable with being able to say, I don't know, but we're going to do it honestly. And that's what I can promise you.

Aurelia Boyle (23:41)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. It's okay to say I don't know. It's okay to say I don't have all the answers. I think the most important thing is to convey your sense of passion. You know, I don't know where this is gonna go, but I love it. I'm in it. I'm committed to it. And I will take it as far as I possibly can. You know, so between that and I think just being transparent with folks about what you're doing, that's how you start to build these long lasting relationships.

Madelyn (24:13)
Yeah, a hundred percent where, so I want to take it back. how did you even get into, I'm going to spend just a couple of minutes on how you got into the industry because you've, you've been in it for quite a while. mean, even at river, you've been there, what 11, 12 years and you had a career before that. So did you always want to do this? What were the early days like for you?

Aurelia Boyle (24:30)
Yeah, yeah.

No, I went to UCLA film school and you know, like all film students, your focus at that time is scripted and

you know, particularly the features. UCLA film school is a little different than like say USC where UCLA film school really feels like an art school, right? Like it is small, it is intimate, it is really focused on the art of cinema and the history of cinema and film theory. You know, I would say at least back when I was there, it was a class of less than 30 people and this is undergraduate. everyone was made to feel very special. It was definitely the artist's way, right? So that's kind of, you know, in that sense,

It helped me find my voice creatively. It allowed me to kind of talk about my ideas, my opinions. It really honed that aspect of me, but it did not necessarily prepare me for a career in this industry. you know, just being a person who gets paid. right out of film school, I interned at a number of different production companies, again, mostly in the feature world, and then ended up just, you know, just needing a job.

up working at a production company did do Unscripted. that was coincidentally at the time when Unscripted was really starting to boom. And it was a place where there were a lot of jobs available. And I think the other thing I liked about, there were two things I liked about Unscripted, but then also just television in general. One was that the pace was much, much faster than in the feature world. So even as an intern, working at scripted production companies,

there would be scripts that would come across your desk and these things had been in development hell for like over a decade. Not a lot gets made and things sort of hang around and collect us for years and years and years. I'm sort of an instant gratification kind of person. So that did not appeal to me at all. Maybe it's just a lack of patience, but I liked that at that time television moved faster. It's still kind of maybe slow compared to other industries, but it moves faster.

Madelyn (26:19)
Yeah.

Well, I came from the digital

world. I came from the digital world and I remember the person I was talking to about like, you know, transitioning into this. She was like, it's so slow because we worked in digital, but you're right compared to scripted. It's like.

Aurelia Boyle (26:51)
I mean everything's slower now, that's just the state of things, but back then it felt a lot faster than sort of laboring over one precious script and trying to sell it for five years. That seemed like there's a reason why it's called development hell. It seems like hell. I loved that it was more fast-paced. And I also say that in terms of television in general at that time, I saw more female executives

Madelyn (26:54)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Aurelia Boyle (27:19)
more women on top, were women at sort of the highest ranks I saw in the sort of film world, still very much felt like a boys club every level, at every level. it seemed to me that in unscripted especially, but then also just television in general, there were more females out there to look up to. There were women who were already doing it, who had built really wonderful careers. And it also just felt kind of like a more diverse.

part of the industry in general. So for those reasons, it became immediately appealing. wasn't what I had set out to do, but there was just an opportunity there. So, you know, I ended up working as an assistant to an SVP of development and just kind of worked my way, worked my way up the ranks. And, you know, now doing this, but it's, have to say it's been really good. know, speaking of finding your niche, I mean, I feel like that's what I did. I managed to...

kind of find a career where I get to tell stories and meet interesting people and still have a life and raise a family. it's great. I have no regrets in terms of that. It's been a really nice wild ride. Hopefully it keeps going.

Madelyn (28:32)
I love it.

I mean, going to film school, listening every again, like you said, it's storytelling. Every, every pitch deck we make, whether it's competition game show or a to fabulous, you know, which you also work on, or of polygamy, it's story, it's arc, Like it's all of those like crucial, critical storytelling elements.

and building and finding compelling people. That's all, know, things from film school in the narrative world that you've brought, that you bring into Unscripted to really hone in on your own intuition and gut feeling. Cause so much of this world is that as well.

Aurelia Boyle (29:09)
Yeah, absolutely. you know, listen, even thinking back to film school, I feel like I was always attracted to real stories. You know, that was always more appealing to me than making my own up. You know, if you're I think if you're curious about the world and you're curious about people and people's journeys and you want to walk in a bunch of different people's shoes unscripted or documentary, that's an incredible way to go. If that's kind of where your curiosity leads you.

Madelyn (29:36)
You're right. It's a different adventure every day. That's what I love so much about it too, is you can work on true crime, home, lifestyle, culinary, at one time. It is so dynamic and diverse. another thing you said that I love was every person I meet with, I would say 90 % of the people that I meet with in this industry are women. I...

Aurelia Boyle (29:39)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Madelyn (30:02)
love that for us and

much more of just a collaborative feeling about it that I really, like.

Aurelia Boyle (30:08)
Yeah, and it's nice community. I mean, I think, you know, I'm not sure what, you know, people think of from the outside looking in, you know, what people assume, you know, reality TV producers are. But I have to say for the most, I mean, Adam and I talk about this all the time, you know, like for the most part.

Madelyn (30:16)
Right, yeah. I think they think we're evil, I'm not gonna lie. Yeah.

Aurelia Boyle (30:27)
The folks that we do business with and we've met and we've befriended over the years are really amazing, wonderful people. There's a lot of amazing people in our industry, good people. And I think that's another reason why, you after all these years, I'm still in it.

Madelyn (30:41)
think the outside perception is that like, while we were scrappy, I just think there's this idea that it's like seedy and like everyone's smoking cigarettes. I don't know why, but I think totally. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That we're like praying. Yeah. It's so interesting.

Aurelia Boyle (30:51)
It's like a swimming with sharks situation, it maybe other parts of the entertainment world are. Yeah. But not this. Yeah, it's

very it's a very nice community.

Madelyn (31:03)
Absolutely, is there anything you're watching right now or that you've watched in the past few months that you like really love?

Aurelia Boyle (31:08)
Gosh, in the unscripted space? Let me think about, let me think what I'm watching these days. You know, it's interesting, we're doing some stuff with the NBA and I watched a documentary about Yannis, the Greek freak, you know, from the Milwaukee Box. And I have to say, I cried.

I just thought it was so well done And I'm not like a big sports person either. And I just like, I was immediately captivated by his story. I thought the filmmaker, the producers did such a great job of taking, you know, one man's sort of heroic journey, this sort of athletic journey.

but then also connecting the dots to greater things happening in our world. He was somebody who grew up in Greece, but they were African immigrants. I thought that they did such a good job of capturing the immigrant experience in Greece. It was so beautifully done. Again, it was one person's story, but there was social context. There was historical context. There was also the sports aspect. It was so deeply layered.

Madelyn (32:04)
Hmm.

Aurelia Boyle (32:17)
It was just a reminder of how, you know, every individual's story, you know, it's like we contain multitudes, right? Like there's the universe inside of all of us. I thought it did a really good job of that. So that was the last thing I saw in the sort of documentary unscripted space where it's like I got emotional and I was inspired.

Madelyn (32:24)
Totally.

Mm-hmm.

looks like it's what the marvelous journey on Prime, if anyone wants to watch it, OK, I will bookmark that. And then what is your like all time?

Aurelia Boyle (32:37)
Yes, that's

Madelyn (32:44)
reality show?

Aurelia Boyle (32:45)
the other sort of big reality journey I've been on and I didn't start watching this show back in the day. I only started watching it this year was Vanderpump Rules. I started episode one, season one. It's a journey I started with a really, one of my really, really close friends who's a journalist and not, know, again, she had just started watching it. I decided to start watching it too. Obviously Scandoval had already happened.

Madelyn (32:54)
Yes.

Aurelia Boyle (33:10)
So I was aware of that, but she was like, you have to start watching it from the very beginning. And the world building and all the layers that goes on into these people. And we were right away hooked. And it is now this, on the top of just being like a really just amazingly well done show, with characters that I find just so addictive, and actually so likable. also been just this incredible journey I've taken with my friend.

have this language now of Vanderpump rules and it's really sort of added this wonderful dimension our friendship. And we've been friends for 20 years. So I'm so glad that I'm on this journey with her.

Madelyn (33:47)
Right.

It's so true. I watched Vanderpump pre-Scandoval, I was still late to the game, really. And I remember season one, the arc that, I'm not gonna spoil it, that lie, right? That got carried all the way to the end and that like Shakespearean ending. I was like, this is the greatest television I've ever seen. And the fact that it is, that's proven in how...

Aurelia Boyle (33:56)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

It's a masterpiece.

Madelyn (34:15)
many seasons it's gone. mean, it's just, it's absolutely insane. And there is something about these shows, about unscripted shows versus scripted. And of course, like, yes, we have friends and we'll bond over scripted shows, but there is something about Vanderpump, Housewives, like these real shows, especially with your girlfriends that you bond over.

Aurelia Boyle (34:16)
Mm-hmm.

I know, it is so true.

Madelyn (34:40)
Like it is so much

fun. And I think that's what entertainment's all about is we've like, I think we got so isolated when we were watching it for such a long time. You we used to all tune in on Monday night for Idol or like whatever. now I feel like that like collective viewing experience is back. And I love that. Like, I think it's so much fun. I'm so glad you're enjoying it. Vanderpump is like top for me as well. It's just, it's gold.

Aurelia Boyle (34:57)
Mm-hmm.

I absolutely love it.

I love those rascals and they do feel like, you know, they themselves start to feel like friends. You know, really, really and it's interesting that you say sort of that collective watching experience. My husband and I talk about this all the time. It's like, you know, we want to check something out because we want to be a part of the conversation. And I know that we're sort of at a point in pop culture

Madelyn (35:10)
I know.

Aurelia Boyle (35:24)
where it's no longer monoculture. I remember as a kid growing up in the 80s and 90s, all sort of watched the same thing. You didn't have like a million choices like you do now and there was this very pronounced monoculture. Now everything's so broken up, but there is still that conversation, that sort of mainstream pop conversation that happens around things that are really big hits or really big sort of cultural game changers. And we love being a part of the conversation.

Madelyn (35:39)
Mm-hmm.

We do.

Aurelia Boyle (35:49)
We will check something out just because we don't want that conversation to pass us up. You we want to be a part of it. So, I mean, I think that's the part of pop culture that is just is so fun. We all get to talk about something together.

Madelyn (35:53)
Exactly.

and I think unscripted like television shapes so much of it. I can think of so Scandoval, Tiger King, Housewives. Like there's just, mean, there's been a million moments from even the past couple of years that are all coming from what we do in our industry that has everyone in the world talking, So a cool place to be for sure. thank you so much for.

Aurelia Boyle (36:09)
Mm-hmm.

Madelyn (36:24)
Talking to me and chatting, it was good to just catch up with you in general and for sharing all of your amazing insights of being a professional and certainly handling the sensitivity diving into different worlds So thank you so much for sharing. It was awesome to have you.

Aurelia Boyle (36:26)
Thank you.

Thank

you, I'm glad to talk to you and thank you for having me.

Bradley Carpenter (36:49)
Thank you guys for listening to this really special episode. think storytelling and documentary storytelling specifically is so important now more than ever. I love the entertaining stuff. I love the dating formats, but truth telling and diving in and getting uncomfortable is what we really need more of.

I hope your day is full of lots of love and I'm really excited for next week's episode. See you in a week on The Unscripted Files.

if you or someone you know is a victim of domestic violence,

You can call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 800-799-SAFE, 800-799-7233 if you ever need support.

Madelyn Cunningham (37:36)
The Unscripted Files is brought to you by Good Gravity Entertainment. Thank you to producer Bonnie Adams, Original Music by composer William Wright, Artwork by Lisa Schweikart, and Photography by Reid Schick.