Mac McAbee (00:05)
It's very easy to get wrapped up into it, cause I mean, I could be like, Hey, like when, when so-and-so was in here, they were saying this about you and now you're saying this about it. I mean, you could really stir it up

Madelyn (00:13)
You could really stir it up if you wanted to.

Bradley Carpenter (00:20)
Did you guys like that little teaser? I'm going to start doing that. It's so fun. Welcome to the Unscripted Files. My name is Madelyn Cunningham. I am a development producer in the unscripted entertainment industry, bringing you candid conversations with a mind behind your favorite entertainment. Today, we have a really good friend of mine of over a decade, He is the owner of Coven Haircraft in Charleston and is also responsible for several heads of hair that you love on Southern Charm and Southern Hospitality. We get into everything from the dinner that started it all,

for Southern Charm, all the way to the current storylines on Southern hospitality and how a new generation is ushering in sort of a fresh take on Charleston. So if you aren't up to date on your episodes, there may be some spoilers here, but nothing too crazy. So I hope you enjoy this conversation with Mac.

Madelyn (01:12)
Mac, welcome to the podcast. I'm so excited to have you here as a professional and as a friend.

Mac McAbee (01:18)
I'm so excited to be here. It's been a long time. We've known each other forever.

Madelyn (01:22)
just saying before we press record that we met, I mean, it had to have been, I think 2011, 2012, I was doing, I was actually looking at some of the looks I had during fashion week and I was like, which one of these did Mac do? Cause there was one crazy one with my hair all insane.

Mac McAbee (01:41)
I think that one was on the lanyard the next year. I can't remember. I feel like you were on one of the lanyards the year after from one of the photos from the runway. So, but we always fight over you to do your hair like during Charleston Fashion Week, like all the stylists there, were like, I want her, I want Madelyn. it was.

Madelyn (01:45)
That's funny.

Yeah

you guys, you guys made

me feel so good and comfortable. You and then Ashley, ABP, Ashley Brooke-Perryman

Mac McAbee (02:09)
A huge mentor for me. And actually it's like, mentored me more than just Charleston Fashion Week, even like working like TV and film and things like that. and then getting into reality TV.

Madelyn (02:21)
Yes.

Yeah. Which is why we're here. Okay. So you are on the hair team for Southern Charm and Southern Hospitality. I know you and Leva are super, super close. I met Leva around the same time I met you. You're, mean, over a decade ago. she, you know, she's always been an entrepreneur. So she had owned, she owned like a studio downtown and I was shooting in it with another Ms. Charleston, which is

Mac McAbee (02:24)
you

Yeah.

Yes.

Madelyn (02:50)
a little lore on my

end, but I remember meeting her. I was so incredibly impressed by her. And so to see her even being like the boss she is now is so, amazing. So tell me how you got to know Leva and how that led to you getting on these shows.

Mac McAbee (03:11)
Okay, so it's actually kind of funny. So I met Leva actually through Charleston Fashion Week as well. I had a good friend of mine back in North Carolina. I had moved from Western North Carolina to Charleston and she reached out to me. was like, hey, I have this group of girls. They need their hair and makeup done.

There's gonna be cameras following them all night. It's kinda like the It Girls of Charleston, going out to Charleston Fashion Week and the after party. And I was like, that's so dope. She's like, can you do hair for them? And I was like, ugh. I was like, I'm gonna be in the tents. And you know how insane the tents were.

like, there's no way can do it. I'm going to be in the tents. I was like, so I have a friend in Charlotte that I'm a national educator with Paul Mitchell with. I totally trust her to do everything. And so my friend Taylor came down from Charlotte and I was like, I'll buy you after like a ticket to the after party if you'll go with me or whatever for like doing this for me.

and everything so she knocked out the hair and then after after party I ended up approaching Lava and I was just like hey I was like I hope my friend Taylor like you know like took care of you guys and she's like oh my gosh she was amazing we loved her hair like she's so sweet like and I was like well you know I just moved to Charleston I'm local I was like you know I'm hairdresser I was like you know I'd love for you to come into the salon like you know just for like a treatment or something and then she ended up coming into the salon and

We were sitting there talking about her hair and she was like, do you actually cut hair? And I was like, yeah, I do. And she was like, oh my God. She was like, it'd be so nice to have somebody do my hair here. She was like, and everything. She's like, I've just been getting it done. gonna go back to Canada to see family. So she had a stylist in Winnipeg. So she was like happy to have somebody in Charleston. And then she was like, hey, do you wanna go out Friday night? And then it was like, after that, that was like my Friday night crew.

We would go out to different girlfriends houses and I would do everybody's hair and then we would go out on King Street. And it was kind of cool. So then she had Spring Street Studios and everything over on Spring. And know, Travis T, like all these other photographers, like Charleston's hate.

Madelyn (05:16)
you're

dropping names, wow. These are names I have not heard in a long time yet.

Mac McAbee (05:18)
Hey, hey.

So, know, like Charleston was like, there was a very special time period in Charleston and I remember, you know,

Leva texting me like a few years later. We've been friends. We've been going out and she's like, Hey, Charleston Fashion Week. There's some producers. They're thinking about doing this reality show and everything in Charleston. She was like, bring like bring anybody you know. And so I went to this dinner at Hall's after like a night at Charleston Fashion Week and there was like Danni was there. Leva was there. Cameran was there.

Whitney, course, he's a producer and also on the show and everything. And so it was like really cool to kind of see the beginnings. think T-Rav was there So it was kind of like cool to see it start from the inception. then mine and Leva's, it was a friendship and also like I'm a hairdresser as well. So I was just keeping all the girls looking good.

So.

Madelyn (06:19)
I love

that. So you've been on the show since season one.

Mac McAbee (06:23)
so season one, actually Whitney gave me a call one day. He's like, I've got this girl. I need you to make her a blonde or something. Like we're just not filling her hair right now. And the next day he walked in with Kathryn and I.

Madelyn (06:36)
Not feeling the hair, I take personal offense. Okay.

Mac McAbee (06:39)
No, no, no,

It was like, it was just like, was a little too like bright and kind of magenta-y.

Madelyn (06:44)
Mmm.

Mac McAbee (06:45)
like kind of like, if you remember like the first couple of episodes, she had already filmed and she up her hair. And I was like, I cannot make her a blonde. was like, her hair's gonna be pink if I try to do that. So I was like, it's not gonna be pretty. was like, but let's lean into like this like beautiful redhead. was like, you're gonna have so many blondes, it's Charlson. She's like the anti blonde and everything. So I created that iconic redhead for

Madelyn (06:51)
Right?

love that.

Mac McAbee (07:14)
red tone for Kathryn that season one and actually Leva's first season on Charm we were filming something in her condo

because it was like Republic's anniversary. So all the girls were coming over. She was like, she was like, do you have a team that can do hair and makeup? And I'm like, absolutely. Cause I was like, all right guys, we're gonna go do this and everything. And Lev is so supportive. The entrepreneur in her like pushes me to be a better business person as well. Cause she was like, Hey, she was like, can you get shirts made with your logo on it? Like she was like, put that out there. you know, and I was just like, so it's more than just like,

It's a friendship and we go back way far. It's like family.

Madelyn (07:58)
Yeah. She just

is such a ride or die. She, again, even in the brief moment that I met her, I remember like my mom, I think you met my mom, my mom and I got back in the car and we're like, Whoa. I mean, she was just so incredibly impressive. She is very loyal. And I think if you do good work, like she is going to root for you. And it's so clear and you guys as partnership and in your friendship and sort of the way you've been able to grow.

Mac McAbee (08:15)
Yes.

Madelyn (08:26)
with the Charm franchise and with the Hospitality franchise now, which is just so, so fun. Okay, you being responsible for Kathryn's Red, love that. I also forget that Whitney is a producer, I forget that he is sort of involved in the very initial orchestration.

Mac McAbee (08:45)
Yeah.

Yeah, it was like him and like, I think production side he was like, I see something special here. And he's got a great mind. Whitney is like super intelligent.

Madelyn (09:00)
that, that he's kind of always moving the pieces. mean, even when I was there, you know, and spending a lot of time down there, there was, I mean, there was a hierarchy, there was who's who, Fashion Week always brought that out. It was very fun. like, even Molly, which we'll get into in a little bit, Molly was a part of that scene because she was like fresh off ANTM. So she was local model celebrity. So all the models at CFW were like, my God, Molly O'Connell. So seeing her on this season,

Mac McAbee (09:27)
Right.

Madelyn (09:30)
has

been so much fun and her, I don't know, I've been in the reddits, you know, and everyone is just really loving her personality, her vulnerability about her body. I found incredibly refreshing and her band geek nerd, like her nerding out about music and being, and having that talent I think is a really fun addition to this group.

Mac McAbee (09:53)
What I love is like, love a hot, beautiful, weird girl. Like, it's just like, so many people kind of like try to hide those little quirks and everything, because they try to be like perfect or whatever, or like, she just kind of puts it all out there. She's completely vulnerable. I think she's great for TV. I mean, she was amazing on America's Next Top Model. Like, I mean, I mean, her confessionals were just kind of like the best. They make the best.

Madelyn (09:57)
Right? She checks every box.

good.

Mac McAbee (10:23)
And I mean

Madelyn (10:25)
Huh?

Mac McAbee (10:25)
her trauma with hair extensions on America's Next Top Model. So I've known Molly for years, Charleston Fashion Week. I've done shoots for with her. mean, I mean, but I've worked with Molly for ever over the years And she's just always a hoot. Like she's just like good people and like she's fun.

and

everything so we kind of started talking like right when she found out that she was gonna be on Charm and I was like what are you thinking like she's like I think I want extensionists because she's like so traumatized and I do extensionists like I'm still in the salon like two to three days a week so I was like hey let's do it so it was her

Madelyn (10:59)
Right, right.

You were like, have

you heard of the Casey Welch method? Like, I got you.

Mac McAbee (11:13)
I got you girl. I got you girl. And everything, literally some of the best hair I've ever used. And so we ventured down that path. We did a little color, little like blonde refresh and everything. We did extensions and I mean, it was amazing. So it's been fun working with more of the cast

Madelyn (11:15)
You

Mac McAbee (11:35)
Some of them I work with them in salon, doing like hot color, things like that. And some I just style for, for like the confessionals or things like that, or like, you know, bigger events during the some of the big parties and stuff like that. So.

Madelyn (11:39)
Mm-hmm.

Okay, yeah, let's get into that. you,

know that you, on Charm, you have Leva's head. And then you've got Molly and Sally, who do you typically do?

Mac McAbee (12:03)
So up until this season, I was just just Leva, really. And Naomi, when she was on for one more season, I was dialing her through that. Angel, love her. Love her. Just real life, too.

Madelyn (12:13)
Mm-hmm.

love Naomi. I really do. I like was giving the Naomi on

Apple box about Naomi with a friend the other day. I was like, she speaks French. She's interstate. Like I was going all in on her. So miss her.

Mac McAbee (12:33)
miss her too, I know.

so this year I took on Molly because I was working with her when it comes to more like confessional just styling her hair. I'm working with Sally and then this season I've worked with Craig Austin Austin loves a good little blowout like I love it

Madelyn (12:49)
Yeah, he's really particular.

he the most particular out of everyone, guys and girls, is he the most particular about his hair?

Mac McAbee (12:56)
Yes, and Leva are both very like, they're just, it's a little bit of a type A kind of thing. It's like, but it's your image is what you're putting out there. So I respect that. cause like we'll do this little blowout and everything like that and get it sewn into place and he'll kind of like take a look at it and like kind of piece it out and be like, okay, cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The hair is hairing. So, I always forget the hair is hairing. Like then, we're good to go

Madelyn (13:16)
Great.

That's his thumbs up, the hair is herring.

Mac McAbee (13:24)
the hair is airing so I mean I love working with Austin and Craig I've styled Shep this year for the confessionals and everything. Kelly Hoff she works with Madison a little

Kelly's been working with Madison doing incredible and then Angie, local hairdresser, she works with Venita, which is amazing. Makeup.

Madelyn (13:47)
Hmm. Venita's,

her hair is incredible. And she has an interview, like a white confessional look this season where her hair is up that looks so good. Okay. So let's talk confessionals. I am really curious about how you, so are they coming to you with like, here's my inspo, here's what I want. Here's my vibe for the season. Here's, you know, cause kind of

Mac McAbee (13:58)
Perfect.

you

Madelyn (14:15)
Every season, specifically in the reunions, I noticed people do this where, I don't know, for instance, Taylor came to the reunion of season nine and was like wearing a Scarlet dress. And she's like, this is my Scarlet letter. Like, you know what I mean? are they coming to you with a vibe and saying like, here's what I want. Here's my inspo and you're working with that. Or are they coming with a fit and saying like, I trust you make it work.

Mac McAbee (14:39)
So usually they come with like several options of fits. Like producers have final say. So a lot of like taking pictures with it on the green screen. Do they like the color? Do like the cut of the dress? Like, is it the best looking and everything? So then we kind of go with that. Like, you know, we'll look at the dress and then Leva's makeup artist, Julian, incredible. Like he can just like beat her face. perfect. Too perfect.

Madelyn (14:45)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

To the gods,

to the gods.

Mac McAbee (15:09)
For real, he's absolutely amazing with her face but it is a collaborative effort like between all three of us and everything because like, you know, if she's if we're gonna go hard on makeup, we can't go so hard on hair like, you there's always

Madelyn (15:24)
Right, well and neckline, you know, gotta

look at neckline, what's going on there, what's too busy.

Mac McAbee (15:31)
Exactly. And then is there going be jewelry? Is there going be earrings? Do want the earrings to show? Are we going to do no earring? Do we want the hair to be the statement? like, know, Leva definitely has her style. She knows what works for her body. She's actually got a little bit of like hate.

She is absolutely gorgeous. She could wear anything. I mean, she's just absolutely stunning. like, I mean, we just try to bring out her natural beauty, like, do we want the shoulders to show? Do we not want them to show? We kind of have like our signature looks with Leva at this point, And sometimes like her signature looks like she can do better than me. And that's what I love. Cause like we've worked together and I've taught her, like, and you know, and now we're

Madelyn (16:01)
Hmm.

Mac McAbee (16:11)
right

now we're in a learning curve because we just cut all of her hair off it was like super impromptu like because I asked her because I remember I always refer to it as I was just talked to her about this the summer of bangs and headbands

Like I got a text I was in the salon. like, hey, I'm thinking bangs. And then I didn't see it for a while because I was working and she was like, nevermind cut them. And this was trying to blow them out. These weren't laying right and everything. So I always joke. She likes to, she calls it rage cutting. And I get it. Cause like sometimes like when I can't control anything, what all of my life and there's a lot going on.

I'm like, the one thing I control is my hair. So I'm going to chop it off. Like, you know, I'm to do something drastic with it. So it's just like a response. Like it's like a thing. it's also like hair holds energy. like sometimes you're cutting off things that don't serve you anymore. So I understand that it's more than just like chopping your hair off, but she was like, we've been talking about it for a few weeks. And then it was just kind of like, let's do it. She came out of literally filming a professional.

Madelyn (17:14)
It is definitely a like, there's a lot of girls who do it like post wedding, the post wedding chop. I did it like post grad up to my chin. And you're right. It's almost like, I think she, I saw her post about it. She was like, when I feel too attached to my physical body and when I want to just reset, like I just want to chop it off. So I'm glad that you were like, okay.

I'm not letting you go home. We are doing this here before you take the kitchen aid scissors and do it yourself.

Mac McAbee (17:38)
Yeah.

Yeah, I was like, and even Julian was like, I mean, he's a professional, let's just, because we've been talking about it and we've been tossing this, I was like, this could be like a good, just reset, refresh, kind of like a new level, like at the reunion and reveal it there and everything.

And we've been talking about it for a few weeks and she's like, well, I'm here, let's just do it. And I'm like, okay, let's do it. And she's like, well, maybe. And then I was like, so I went back, like Julie was filmed a little bit of like the process of it and everything is like here. I was like, we have got to get content on this. this. you're always thinking about like the content for that behind the scenes of like what.

Madelyn (18:17)
Yeah, so we'll get

to see that at the reunion, which will be nice. Which films when? Do we know yet?

Mac McAbee (18:22)
Yeah, the

we do, but I can't say.

Madelyn (18:27)
Okay, that's fine. That's fine.

So with the confessionals, and how long are they typically in the chair sort of recounting the events of the season?

Mac McAbee (18:36)
So I think this past season, Charm started filming April, May? Hospitality, they overlapped a little bit this year with filming.

which can get a little crazy, especially like for LeBun. She's going from filming something for one show to filming something for hospitality and like day to night. And they're two different vibes of a show. Like, cause she actually gets to express two different sides. Like Charm is like, you know, her like friend life, like, and everything, like mom life, things like that.

Madelyn (18:49)
Yeah.

Mac McAbee (19:08)
But then on hospitality, she's boss queen of king as like she's been coined.

Madelyn (19:15)
okay, so this season started filming in, you said like April, May.

Mac McAbee (19:18)
April, May, something like that. And so

we did, I think the earliest we did a confessional was probably June. Then we've pretty much been doing them all since then. we've been doing them for hospitality and charm.

all fall, winter. I mean, actually this January has been kind of crazy because we started like that, really that first full week of January, we did after shows for Peacock and YouTube and BravoTV.com.

And then the next week I was working on hospitality And then the next week was charm. And then, you know, already this week we're down. And then next week I have charm and hospitality at the same time. So there will be.

Madelyn (20:09)
my gosh. And there

is such an interesting difference in the two shows. obviously Leva is sort of the connector between the two but the vibe on both of them, obviously the cast members are a decade and some change apart, know,

Mac McAbee (20:24)
is, where they are living their lives on King Street and Republic and everything.

is where me and Leva were and where our friendship started was us out on King Street, like in different places. So I remember like, you know, like when I first started hanging out with Lava and we were going out on King Street, like Lamar threw these parties and they were like party for a purpose. So like they were raising money for local charities, but charging a cover at the door.

I mean, I went to a Halloween party one year that Lamar and Levah hosted at Chize, which Chize is where Republic is.

I think they actually, and Lamar actually met at Chai's on one of these nights and that's where their like relationship started. So it was like kind of crazy, like all like the history from the beginning. The history that they have with like Republic and Wyatt is kind of the crown jewel. It has like so much of a history and coming out of Oku and like we'd be like, but like how much longer before Republic's open? Like in everything. And she was like, oh, you know, like this permit, that permit, like, you know, like

Madelyn (21:18)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mac McAbee (21:35)
two more months, we think. And it was like a slow start to getting Republic open on Kings Street, but Republic literally changed the game in Charleston

Madelyn (21:45)
it really did. It elevated everything. was, it was, there was like fine dining and then there was sort of college bar, right? And they, she really changed the game between Republic, Bourbon and Bubbles, you know, with like elevated nightlife, VIP, you know,

Mac McAbee (21:51)
Right. You have like the dirty dollar. Yeah.

Thank

Madelyn (22:05)
something

you could really wear a fit to.

Mac McAbee (22:08)
absolutely. It was like a fashion show every time you went out. Like, I remember. And like being so close to Love It and everything and just like being through that process. mean, I remember sitting there for the premiere of Southern Charm at the bar with the whole cast for season one, episode one of Southern Charm.

Madelyn (22:12)
Yes.

Mac McAbee (22:30)
Like, and it's just like how Republic has been a part of Southern Charms really since the beginning. I mean, was on the first episode with Cameran.

Madelyn (22:38)
people are going back and watching and they're like, wait, I saw Lava and I was like, yeah, she's been there like day one was always there.

Mac McAbee (22:44)
They want, I mean, I remember like, like if I go like, I never go on my Facebook, but if I go to on Facebook to that time and everything, I should, cause there's some pictures. I mean, it's like me, Craig, Ebony, Lava, like in the whole friend group, it's kind of interesting to see how young they were, young I was but like, you know, you would go to Republic and there's Craig and you know, their chef and like, they were like.

It was just like how they casted the show really was truly like this friend group in Charleston, which is really kind of cool.

Madelyn (23:14)
Yes,

it was cast so well. was existing relationships there, existing like paths and layers and relationships there.

Mac McAbee (23:22)
Yeah.

Right. even as like people like kind of come on, like even with the addition of Molly, like Molly goes back to that time. So it's like, it's really cool to see the evolution and everything. 10 is like, this is, this is a season for sure. For sure.

Madelyn (23:41)
Oh yeah,

I just caught up. it's yeah. I mean, I was like after the season nine reunion, I was just like, where is this going to go? And seeing, um, Shep's sort of Ayahuasca rebirth. I mean, he's looking great. He's looking super healthy. Um, like

Mac McAbee (24:02)
Heard that from a lot of people and he is and like, like, you know, the time that I spend with him, he's a super great guy. I think he's

Madelyn (24:10)
Yeah,

is in his bossy era, which like, listen, I respect so much. looking, seeing the evolution of these, men specifically, and this sort of Peter Pan syndrome that we have, I really, I don't know, I respect Craig and his desire to sort of.

think more business-like, think more entrepreneur-like. I'm sure seeing Leva and seeing sort of all these people around him take these big opportunities and not want to waste them, I respect that a lot.

Mac McAbee (24:49)
No, yeah, and I think it's like that just speaks to kind of like what Charleston is too, because like there was a point and we all kind of go through it. Like, you know, like, especially if we stay in Charleston, there's a point where like sometimes you can't hang out with some friends because like you're more focused on. But I went through that like when I stopped going out as much

The shows really represent what it's like to live here and like be out and about and like everything. And you've got like so many different little friend groups

Madelyn (25:18)
with Southern hospitality, they're much younger. Do you see them as a younger version of the Southern charm cast or are there key differences because of kind of, are there like key generational differences that you see? Yeah.

Mac McAbee (25:21)
Yes.

This generation references for sure, but

I mean pretty much like we've all like

our generation was a little bit different, like kind of going through that, but like they're doing it with like the pressures of more social media, more scrutiny and stuff like that than what there was Like I'm kind of happy that like there wasn't really that big of an Instagram, Facebook thing. Like when I first moved to Charleston, but like we weren't like...

like whipping out our phones and posting to our stories, like us dancing on top of bars. Like, so, I mean, trust me, I'd be like, kind of like a Wabaw West. We like, it's rowdy. So it's fun. Like people like to have fun here. I mean, I couldn't imagine like somebody taking something like.

Madelyn (26:01)
Right.

Mac McAbee (26:15)
text messages between each other like throwing those like I mean it happened

Madelyn (26:19)
It's a lot.

These guys, I don't know, part of me is like they can't get away with anything and then I see them get away with stuff and I'm like, well maybe they can. I don't know. I don't know. Like what's happening?

Mac McAbee (26:28)
No, yeah, and I mean I think it's like really cool to see like I mean someone like Michaels who's like 21 in college and it's like the assistant GM of the hottest nightclub on King Street Like I mean as a real person getting to meet him, you know the season and everything I mean

He's just like a really cool person. Like, I mean, I wish I was had his work drive and ethic and everything at 21, 22. Like that's amazing. really, really good head on his shoulders. He's, he's just, he's really honestly a good guy. And like, will you see if I'm on TV? That's him. Like he's a Like he, really cares about people's well-being and are they happy or they, you know, they in the right mind space? Like in every.

Madelyn (26:56)
Yeah, he seems like he has a really good head on his shoulders.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Who else is really kind of like what you see in the chair is like from your perspective, sort of what you get on TV?

Mac McAbee (27:24)
I mean all of them really like

Madelyn (27:28)
Yeah, you think you feel like

they've all really like pretty transparent. Yeah.

Mac McAbee (27:31)
absolutely, absolutely.

You know, I've witnessed things.

Madelyn (27:38)
was gonna say, listen, we all know, we all know that when you're getting

your hair done is when it all happens. Everyone's on their phone. I know you're seeing some crazy stuff and I know you keep it, I know that you're keeping it just right here to yourself, but I know that you know these things.

Mac McAbee (27:56)
And and but like it's also like a privilege like I mean just as a hairdresser alone like people letting you into your space I actually get like a little bit fresher of like things to do because they're like a different generation so like I love

Madelyn (28:11)
Yeah,

style-wise, are they really different? Are they willing to kind of try more things?

Mac McAbee (28:16)
Yeah, like Maddie's always fun to work with. Like Maddie, she's always fun. Grace Lilly's fun to work with. Everything. I mean, she's Grace Lilly. I mean, Grace Lilly, wavy baby. She's a hoot. Like she's a hoot. I mean,

Madelyn (28:19)
Yeah.

Mm.

She's Grace Lilly.

Emi's looks have been gorgeous too. Emi

to me looks like, she looks like Ariana Maddix a lot to me. do you see that? Like when I glance at her, I have to double take. She's so pretty. I just, saw some looks on your feet of her. She looks great.

Mac McAbee (28:46)
meeting.

So actually, when we were doing cast photos, like inspiration, one of the inspiration pictures for her cast photo as far as hair was her from Love Island with the gold dress. The one that like, I think was the same dress that Madison wore in cast photos is a beautiful dress. So I'm glad that like, that's been seen on two different things and let you know, because Madison looks stunning in it and like.

Madelyn (29:13)
Yes.

Mac McAbee (29:19)
around a tattoo. I was just kind of like, but that was like the hair kind of inspiration for that. you kind of see where we kind of went with that for her look for the cast photos.

Madelyn (29:24)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

How long is it usually taking you to like, cause you're not washing, right? Like they're what everyone's showing up with what clean hair. How long is it typically taking you?

Mac McAbee (29:40)
Some show up wet So sometimes there's a blowout involved. Sometimes that's like the foundation for the style. So usually you get about two hours with the lady. So and that's hair and makeup.

we could have like three to four confessionals a day. So you start early in the morning, you start hair and makeup. And then, you know, first day they're like setting up like for hospitality, they have a set and for charm, we do a green screen. So they're like putting up the set, making sure everything's perfect and in camera setup, all of that.

Madelyn (30:06)
Hmm.

Mac McAbee (30:13)
There's a lot of moving parts of hospitality. It's really cool to see that side of it.

Madelyn (30:19)
Like it feels Bravo. And like we know it's a green screen. I really like Hospitality's confessionals because I was looking at some BTS and just like knowing kind of how the sausage is made, like looking at a lot of the texture and things that they add. It just feels a lot more dimensional. I really like Hospitality's interview set up.

Mac McAbee (30:22)
Right.

Alright.

No, me too. Like, I think it's like super elevated. like, it's like, almost like you're in Republic. It's almost like we're filming Republic all the time.

Madelyn (30:47)
Right, yeah. And so

on set with the confessionals, you've got obviously your cast member and then you've got what? Some lighting, what A, cam.

Mac McAbee (30:58)
Yeah, AV cam, you've got that, you've got sounds, you've got one producer that's doing the interview that usually plays in.

Madelyn (31:04)
and then you're what, one story producer too.

Mm-hmm.

Mac McAbee (31:13)
so we have Simonette on Charm, she comes down, does the interviews, and then we have Liz for hospitality that comes down and does the interviews and everything, and it's cool to see that side of it, and they're for them, so we get them set on, we make sure they look good, we do last looks, and then we go back and hang out in the hair and makeup room.

Madelyn (31:25)
Yeah.

and you're

on to the next.

Mac McAbee (31:38)
And usually we're on to the next. we might have like, if it's a guy next, we might have like an hour.

like little break, that's when we do lunch. then, you know, cause you have production side. So you have somebody that's like PA like, you know, going out and getting lunch for everybody, making sure we have snacks. Like, you know, when, when each cast member gets there, they're like, Hey, like me, like coffee, like, you hungry? I mean, it's like, um, it's a whole system, like, and it's fun to be a part of it. And those people, they're like family because we're like doing these every week. Cause we all pretty much work on both shows. So.

Madelyn (31:58)
course.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Is there a set number of confessional looks per season or like, do you try to keep it to like, let's just have three so it's not too confusing or is it just kind of like, if it calls for more, if it calls for more confessionals, we create another look. How does the continuity sort of work there?

Mac McAbee (32:29)
So there has been, you know, it just kind of depends. Like don't think there's like a set number. Usually on Charm they give two to three per season. And then with Hospitality, like first season it was two, then it was three on season two, and then now season three, like.

You know, sometimes like that's what they've brought and we don't have another option. So we do it. And then they're like, okay, like we weren't really feeling that look. So on our next round, let's do a different look. Let's do different hair, different makeup, different outfit. And you know, everything. And it's also like head space that they're in, you know, is their energy up and everything. Do they blow through the interviews like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

Or are they just like kind of tired or like, know, yeah, sometimes, sometimes, but, know, like, can just like pull it through. and so it just.

Madelyn (33:22)
Hangover!

Yeah.

Yeah. How

often, so with interview looks, obviously you're sort of working with attire first and then it's, know, so is the cast member, and I know, you know, listen, I know we've got Hampden and we've got sponsorships and we've got the thing. does each individual cast member sort of bring their options or are you working with wardrobe and is, and they're pulling for the cast member?

Mac McAbee (33:57)
Um, usually it's, just, they're ordering offline. they're out. Like with Lava, it's like, mean, we just did a magazine shoot for Charleston style and design.

Madelyn (34:03)
Yeah, they're bringing their own stuff. Yeah. And so they're bringing looks, producers looking at it.

Yes.

Mac McAbee (34:15)
and she had had some stuff pulled and like me and Julie were there at the house doing her hair and makeup and she was like, all right, let's style these outfits. So like, we kind of come in and we're like, no, not those earrings, we like these earrings better. I mean, what better than having two gay men like do your hair and makeup and advise you on what to wear? Like no, not shoes, those shoes, those like, that looks better and everything like that. So she kind of like would love us. She just kind of pulls it all herself. A lot of it's out of her own wardrobe And then we're constantly

Madelyn (34:31)
Okay.

Mac McAbee (34:43)
I'm already getting like, you know pictures and seeing like what we're thinking like reunion look

Madelyn (34:48)
is there someone on the cast, both charm and hospitality, that you, in the nicest way possible, are like, give me your head, let me pop it off, and let me do a color revive on you, or is there anyone who you're like, they're a blonde, but they would look amazing as a brunette, or I really would love to see them?

Mac McAbee (34:48)
good.

Madelyn (35:08)
and like Cal Girl copper, is there anyone that you would like to see really like push it with a look and do something different?

Mac McAbee (35:15)
I don't know because I feel like they kind of do. Like, I mean, if you've watched Trem this season.

Madelyn (35:17)
Hmm

You feel like

they're taking risks? mean, Leva obviously just chopped her hair off.

Mac McAbee (35:26)
Right, mean Sally, I mean she started the season as a blonde and then halfway through confessionals like we're doing the same look but she's a brunette. I mean I think everybody's noticed that So like she goes from blonde to brunette. And I mean I personally like her better as a brunette,

I feel like sometimes like blondes in Charleston, you just become like every other girl in town. Cause there are so many blondes here and you know, but as a colorist and a blonde or myself, it's like you, I love that. Like a lot of people can be like, that's a Mac blonde. Having. Yeah. I mean, I've had clients like stop, like get stopped like out and about and we're like, my God, does Mac do your hair?

Madelyn (36:00)
I love that. That feels good.

Mac McAbee (36:09)
And I'm like, oh, that makes me feel really good. I mean, it's definitely, I hope it's a good thing. It sounds like it.

Madelyn (36:12)
Yeah.

Absolutely,

yeah. Well, is there, okay, so I'll extend it out. Is there anyone, and I don't know how much, I know you don't have a lot of time, but is there anyone in the bravo verse that you're like, I would love to do your hair?

Mac McAbee (36:28)
So many. So many.

Madelyn (36:29)
Any housewives?

Who would you just love to get a hold of?

Mac McAbee (36:33)
Last summer, got an amazing opportunity to work with probably one of my all-time

favorite housewives that, you know, very much caused controversy and was a one season housewife. But I got to work in style Monica Garcia from Salt Lake City. She was here for an appearance in Charleston at Lamar's actually, one of Leva's places. And it was a birthday party for another friend and her and another girl from below deck were in town. But I got the opportunity to style her hair and I was like, this is iconic.

Madelyn (36:53)
Incredible.

Mac McAbee (37:13)
So I would say my top one, I've kind of done And she's amazing. She was a dream to work with. And the fact that we finished doing her hair and everything. it's like July in Charleston. And.

Madelyn (37:13)
Yes.

Mac McAbee (37:28)
She's like helping me carry my kit back out to my car and like no girl get inside your hair's gonna drop and she's like no no no like super sweet so I mean that was my experience I think she was amazing

Madelyn (37:39)
I like

to hear that. I'm glad you brought this up. have a note. I literally have a question here. the Charleston humidity is such a problem. How do you battle it? Like, are you using certain products? Are you just like, I mean, obviously I know the interviews are inside, but people are, know, you're doing glam for parties and whatever else. How do you battle the humidity? What is the secret?

Mac McAbee (38:04)
Choosing the right product and for like you're working with too. So like with Lava like she is a big fan of virtue laps Which we Islam I'm a huge lover of that as well You know, I'll formula works really well. They're finishing serum really comes down humidity You know

Madelyn (38:13)
Mmm!

Mac McAbee (38:26)
A lot of times with Levitts, like the Orbe like anti-humidity spray, like that's always a go-to for us. And it just kind of depends, like sometimes just a good old hairspray. Sometimes like the got-to-be like yellow can hairspray, that's my go-to during confessionals. So, crazy.

Madelyn (38:45)
it'll

really hold it down.

Mac McAbee (38:47)
So the great thing about it is you can build it. So it's a brushable hairspray. So I'll even like set curls with it because when they go in for their confessionals, like if it's the middle of like the summer here and you know that humidity and how hot it can get, they'll have the air on, but because of sound, we have to turn the air off during actual interview. So it can get pretty humid in there. So, and then especially with your working with a green screen, like you can have like zero flyaways. So.

Madelyn (38:49)
Mmm.

Mac McAbee (39:16)
Imagine here that's prone to humidity growing in front of a green screen just flyaways happening So I'm my own worst critic. So like I'll be like watching the shows and I'm like, my god that fly away like why didn't I Why didn't I see that?

Madelyn (39:29)
Yeah.

But you can't

really be in there to continuously give touch ups because you're on to the next person. Right.

Mac McAbee (39:37)
the next person and then

you know and they'll they'll be like hey can we get it like you know we'll get a text from like the camera guy and he'll be like hey can have you in for a touch up so we'll come in the back and we'll wait for a moment and then they'll be like alright cut and then we'll go in and do like a little touch up like they need a little powder like things like that do they need to take a potty break because they can be in there from like two to four hours just on the day

Madelyn (39:44)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

my gosh. so confessionals, we know. When it comes to the day-to-day filming, and I know this has probably changed from season one now to season 10, maybe everyone glams for the camera for the most part. are you doing, does everyone kind of have their own glam squad for sort of the day-to-day filming now? And some people do glam if like you guys are having a party and you're just there kind of case by case.

Mac McAbee (40:25)
Yeah, absolutely.

So like throughout the season, so like with like Molly, like, and she was like wearing extensions for the first time in a long time. So like sometimes like she would just come in beginning of the week, we do a shampoo blowout, kind of give her like a prep style. And if she was filming throughout the week, she would just kind of like throw some curls in it. But if they were going to like, you know, go to the Carolina Cup, or something like that, or like some kind of bigger event, then like she would just come in salon and I would like.

do her hair real quick. I did Sally's hair, I think it was for her housewarming party.

I feel like the day to day they're kind of doing it on their own. And really,

Madelyn (41:00)
I was going

to ask, does anything have to be producer approved for the day-to-day filming or are just kind of doing their own thing? Yeah.

Mac McAbee (41:08)
Yeah, they're doing their own thing.

you know, like, Lava, like, usually during, like, filming, filming, unless it's, like, an event, like, the finale, something like that. Like, me and Julian come in, we'll do it, just because she's so busy, like, running all these businesses, being

Madelyn (41:24)
crazy. So what does your schedule look like coming up? Like you've obviously been super busy You've got reunion. We don't know when, but, you've taken sort of a step back from being in the chair every day at coven, but you have a whole team to manage. like you were the Lev of the Charleston hair scene, basically. So, so tell me what your, what, what things look like for you coming up.

Mac McAbee (41:37)
Yeah.

you

Yeah.

So like next week, I think we start on...

We have Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday hospitality interviews, but on Tuesday, I think we also have a charm interview. So they normally do it in the same studio, but because they're booked on the same day, they are in two different studios.

I have to figure out how to be in two places at one time, but luckily I have my like handy dandy like assistance that can like pop in like this season with hospitality like my

Gwen, she worked with Lake and Michael's first. So she really started to set that relationship with them, which was kind of beautiful to see like how I have come and made these relationships with people to, because you're really just trying to make them the best of who they are. Like it's not a character they're portraying. So it's different than TV and film.

Madelyn (42:27)
Mm.

Right.

Mac McAbee (42:44)
versus like reality TV. And I've had a great career where I've been able to work in TV and film and see that side of it. I I toured for almost a year with a Broadway show, the 20th.

Madelyn (42:56)
Have

Mac McAbee (42:57)
rent. And that was an amazing experience.

from the beginning of my career, I wanted to work with like say people and their personal image. Like I came from fashion before doing hair. So fashion actually plays a lot into like how I see hair and makeup. And that's why I gravitated towards like Charleston Fashion Week. And then even with like reality, it's like you get to like...

take who they are and like express it through their hair and work with them and it's a very personal thing so it's very rewarding.

Madelyn (43:28)
It is,

and there's a lot of trust involved, not just because, like you said, they're not portraying a character this is themselves, and there's so much scrutiny. When you're in front of the camera, on social media, there's so much scrutiny, so there's a lot of trust involved. How do you, I mean, I know you so, I know that you innately are so friendly, you feel like such a trustworthy person, but how do you build trust with your clients?

There are celebrities in their own right. They're sitting in your chair, they may be talking, taking phone calls, texting. There's a lot of sort of, you know, confidentiality that's involved as well because, you know, there's a lot that goes on in the chair. So how do you continuously build trust both personally and then like from a, hey, you can trust me with your hair perspective?

Mac McAbee (43:56)
Okay.

It has to be like it is a trust, but it's just like, you know it's there, it's not, and I'm actually willing to be like, what you want, like, I can't give you. just being honest, and it's like, okay, know, if Leva was like, I wanna chop my hair off into a bob, and I was like, yeah, no.

Like I would, I would be honest with her but I honestly, kind of saw it as like, I kind of wanted like this kind of change for her. Cause, but I, I had to let her come to me with it

but it also works both ways like sometimes like we'll do love us hair for like a confessional or something like that and she's like Something I'm not feeling about it

Because the goal is for them to look and feel their best.

and to be If you're not confident, you want to like flip it to the other side, then let's do it. But I'm also open enough as a stylist that like, it's not like, no, it has to be like this. Like when you're working on a shoot, you may have a storyboard of what you're thinking about here. Once you get them into the clothes and everything is like, the designer may be like, no, I'm not feeling this look. And it's not that I did anything wrong. It's just like, let's rework it. Let's, but that's where the creative process

so it is very creative in the whole process of like delivering these looks

Madelyn (45:25)
What trends, obviously Charleston in the South, of, you know, the higher the hair, the closer to God. Like I think there's certainly a recognition for Southern Belle hair, but what, how, you know, over the course of sort of 10 years, have you seen hair trends change in what people want?

I feel like there's a return to like a lot of volume, a lot of curl, a lot of side part now. Talk to me about what trends you've seen and what you're seeing.

Mac McAbee (45:57)
absolutely. Like, bobs are huge right now. Like, and it's kind of just the continuation of like that 90s influence. Like, I was just watching the En Vogue in the 90s and just like seeing those supermodels in the hair and like what they were wearing. I'm like, my God, that's a lot of like...

influence on us right now. Like, I mean, I love the big 90s blowout. you know, last year with the Southern hospitality reunion with Lava, she had this amazing Versace I don't even know what it was rubber vinyl, whatever, but it was shiny.

Madelyn (46:28)
Mm-hmm.

Mac McAbee (46:30)
perfection but she's like I'm just kind of feeling like this like boss like and it was like oh I was like oh you got a fur to wear with it I was like we're going like mob wife like big hair and that was actually a moment for us because I had to be like

trust me, we can take these all these extensions out at the end of the day. But I have to use like different methods other than just clip ins to make it fill out and do what we want it to do. And she was so scared because like the curling I was using is like the size of a pencil. And tight little curls and everything and she had so much hair. And I mean, her hair was kind of like a little lower than the collarbone but like we put 20s in so and

Madelyn (46:56)
Mm-hmm.

my gosh.

Mac McAbee (47:13)
It was just like this expansion and so many people were like, my god, I need to know what you did for her color. And I'm like, it was all extensions guys.

Madelyn (47:21)
Oops, sorry.

Mac McAbee (47:22)
Sorry, but being able to create those looks and have that trust she was like I'm just gonna trust the process and I mean it was like just trust me This is going to be some epic hair So we're always kind of thinking like what look are we gonna serve? always trying to push past what we've done before

Madelyn (47:40)
do watch the show back. You're not one of those who's like, I can't see. Like, are you watching religiously?

Mac McAbee (47:46)
I wouldn't say that I watch religiously I watch because a I want them to get the viewership for it when you work with multiple ones and say like they're not cool with each other Like i'm like switzerland. I have to say like very neutral they may be saying this about this person and this person. I mean

It's very easy to get wrapped up into it, but it just kind of like I had to put like just for my own sanity. cause I mean, I could be like, Hey, like when, when so-and-so was in here, they were saying this about you and now you're saying this about it. I mean, you could really stir it up really. And I mean, I'm not saying that there weren't hair and makeup people in the past that kind of did that. So I took over a little.

Madelyn (48:17)
You could really stir it up if you wanted to.

Well, Madison

was doing hair Patricia and then she started. it's not like you guys are like, it's not like there's a total separation. You guys are very much a part of the life, the friendship circle.

So everyone is very much friends. There's not a separation of like church and state necessarily. Yeah.

Mac McAbee (48:47)
at all not at all it's like one

like just kind of all doing our things

And you know, like I've been in the background and stuff, like, you know, last season on Hospitality, the first episode, I'm like in the background the whole time. But like, I'm just like saying, talking to Joe. Like that's just like normal. Like when I get in everything.

Madelyn (49:00)
Right, right. It's

very normal. Are any of the, have any of the guys done color or are they just like, they're not messing, they're not fussing with it.

Mac McAbee (49:09)
Nah, everybody's like, mean, everybody like, you know, I've been cutting Joe's hair for a little while since like season one. And, you know, he likes it to get a little bit longer in the back because it's like his little baby. But he likes he likes it a certain way. So like we do a little like kind of like with Austin, we do a little blow out, give it some volume. He likes that leg. You know, it's Joey Bottles. It's the.

Madelyn (49:21)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

yeah. Are they, I mean, I know that a lot of the, you know, the women who sit in the chair are learning and they're watching your technique because we want to know how to do our hair so badly. Are any of the guys kind of taking note and starting to be like, okay, a little product, a little, I know Austin like does his blowout, but are they trying to kind of learn the tricks of the trade too a little bit?

Mac McAbee (49:52)
So like when they go out they look good too. So like Joe's like one of those he's like, know what was that round brush you use like, you know, he's got he's got his own round brush and everything like even Like with Naomi like like I had done her extensions and I was like you're gonna love this brush It's like really meant for extensions and blondes. It's more gentle But you know, it's a really great brush if you're gonna blow out to be gentle on everything Fell in love with a brush put it on her like to know like and I was like, wow Like you can sell those suckers like that

I

was like, we're gang. So it's just like putting the things in their hands and everything and they go off and then they talk about it like, know, Joe Bradley, he likes a DP Hue hairspray and everything and everything to nice and like hold doesn't make it like super hard for him and everything but holds it right in place. It's great for the humidity in the summer working at Republic.

Madelyn (50:22)
You're like, give me a commissionable link. I love that.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Mac McAbee (50:50)
And everything TJ like we kind of changed up his look when I I didn't cut his hair on season one

but starting season two, he was like, need like a change. Like, I don't like how it looked on camera, like this and that season one, like it was just like, so we kind of like played around with like different fades, like adding more shadow in different parts of the head and like still being TJ, but like actually kind of bringing a little edge and style for season two and season three.

Madelyn (51:17)
Mm-hmm.

does, like he feels very buttoned up. Like still very like proper gentlemen. So I like the little bit of edge.

Mac McAbee (51:26)
Exactly. And that was something we worked on together So there are times when it's like when we have confessionals, it's like he hasn't been in the salon to get a haircut or something like that. And it's like, all right, we have to add a little bit of extra time so I can do his little fade up. So it looks like our confessional, the haircut that right before the last one.

Madelyn (51:40)
Mm-hmm.

I guess you aren't really, I was gonna say like in the confessionals, when people get emotional, how often are you guys coming, like at least you're having to do some touch ups. I guess you really wouldn't do them very much, but I'm sure it's pretty often.

Mac McAbee (51:53)
Okay.

No, yeah, it can, like depending on what they're talking about, it could be very, very often. Especially this season, especially for hospitality. There's a lot of...

Madelyn (52:05)
Yeah.

Yeah,

well, there's a lot of, know, Joe and Maddie are together now. There's, just finished the latest episode. There's history just with TJ and Joe. There's a lot of feelings. There's a lot going on. I really, and I'm just curious about your perspective here because we've also brought a lot of gay characters onto charm as well. And Charleston being a

a traditional conservative city, Charm specifically has had a lot of intense conversations about race and classism and now bringing on gay characters. And I like seeing that in hospitality. I like even Lake saying that she kind of was sort of pansexual and went for anything. Like how is it to sort of really see everyone being open about that and seeing not just like hetero relationships playing out on screen?

Mac McAbee (52:59)
I think it's absolutely beautiful. Like I think that's what this generation is kind of about. And I think that they represent that very, very well And, you know, they had a new showrunner this year and everything. it's actually like a little bit.

younger and approach to the show, which you can kind of see the differences. Like the music's a little bit different. Like the fire feels a little bit younger, not like the previous like show runner was doing bad. The first two seasons are amazing, but, I've heard this said a lot, like season three is kind of like your make or break season and they hate to see shows go after like two years. Cause you really don't get into it. Like the first two seasons were great. Like knowing them and knowing kind of

Madelyn (53:24)
yeah.

Mac McAbee (53:46)
the history and like kind of a little bit of behind the scenes of like what's actually like happening on the show and I think they did a great representation of it but this season is really like you know but seeing like gay characters from the very first season.

of hospitality is really nice. that I think that points to just like this generation and they're open to talk about it. They're not willing to hide it, which I think is like really amazing. I mean, if they don't get nominated for like a Glada Award, I mean, they're showing so much gay stories. And I'm actually interested to see like if like when me and TJ filmed, if it makes it into the season, because it was me, TJ and his mom. was doing his mom's hair and doing his hair. And there were some really beautiful conversations that I was like, wow, like you and your mom are having these conversations.

about like your lifestyle and your life and your relationships with people and everything and not every one of us gets that. A lot of us do and a lot of us don't. So it was beautiful to see like just like TJ and his mom. I hope that makes it to air because just like.

Madelyn (54:49)
Yeah, I do too.

Mac McAbee (54:50)
conversation is very beautiful. And then him and Joe's conversation, very beautiful. And I mean, I love the two of them to death, like so much like TJ almost was like a little brother to me sometimes Joe's Joe, like, how can you not like, So like, in their little feud, having to like do both of them's hair. So it was like, I can't talk about one or the other one, like, you know, and

Madelyn (55:03)
Mm-hmm.

Mac McAbee (55:13)
But now I think they're in a much better place and everything's at a mean.

Madelyn (55:16)
Yeah. Well,

I, it's, it's, you're right. A lot of people don't get to have those conversations. Even Michael's said, when he came out, like his mom doesn't even call him and wish him happy birthday. So to be able to have that on screen is amazing. I mean, frankly, you know, if you even look at the concept of sort of Southern masculinity in Southern charm, we have everyone who like,

makes fun of Craig for showing and like, you know, who's like harping on him about that. And we, and that's gotten better, certainly, but there still is a lot of that sort of like.

Mac McAbee (55:54)
I'm like, I mean he's built an empire.

Madelyn (55:57)
Right, I'm like, hate all you want, but, and so you have that sort of traditional, I'm gonna rag on you for, you know, your arts and crafts, and then you get to Southern hospitality where they're, everyone's sort of open about their sexuality, they're experimenting their experiences, and it's really refreshing. And I totally noticed sort of the music sort of shift a little bit, the pace, the openness, the messiness. It's been really interesting to see, and it really does bring a genuine,

I think a lot of these shows can get such a bad rap for feeling a performative or feeling like they aren't authentic. And I think those sort of pieces specifically have been really great to see and they bring sort of a genuineness to the show that people can really relate to.

Mac McAbee (56:43)
Excellent.

No, absolutely. I mean, I've seen so many like memes about the lake house and like with Emmy and like her Maddie and talking and they were like, who hasn't been that girl that's there for your girlfriend? Like over something like this with your mascara running down your face. Like they've

Madelyn (57:00)
Literally, like I was just

finished it before and I was like, girl, been there, babe. I've been there, you know?

Mac McAbee (57:05)
you

It's their willingness because they're like they're young and like they're willing to like put it all out there And put their relationships and what they're going through And everything so I mean kudos to them like I mean, I don't know if I could do it You know

Madelyn (57:26)
I know, I agree

with you. like, I'm much, I like being behind the scenes. I respect you guys. Cause it kind of is like a social, listen, I mean, I think these shows are, there's a, it's a lot of social, I don't want to say it's a social experiment, but we're watching real life play out in real time. Relationships, growth, individuality, individual people's journeys.

And I think we all can relate to different people's past in different ways. And that's why we're all hooked. Yeah.

Mac McAbee (57:57)
Exactly. it means because

like, we can see like the similarities in our friend groups and stuff like that. And like for me, like with hospitality, I feel like I'm like, the guy with the white beard that's like, wisdom. Like you're going to go through this. You're going to get through it. It's going to be okay. and I'm like, wow, was like, yeah, situations like that happened to me. And like, you know, this person like, or that person that I don't talk to.

Madelyn (58:19)
Yeah. How often do you

find yourself sort of like playing therapist in the chair?

Mac McAbee (58:25)
it's like 90 % of what we do as a hairdresser. it's crazy because I'm just like, some, it's, that's the part that can get kind of like taxing on you and like, like draining a little bit is because like we have to recharge ourselves because we kind of like take on this energy. depending on what a client's going through or sometimes like, you know, they walk in and what's going on and what they're getting ready to have to talk about and everything.

I hate saying it like trauma dump, but they kind of like, like throw that out there. But you have to be very careful with what you say and how you guide them because then the kid put something into their head and they go out there and say something they didn't really want to say. That's where I'm going to say like, you kind of have to play neutral. Like you just kind of have to like, be like, yeah, man, I know it's like so stressful. but like we've all been through this, like it'll all get better. like you have to keep it very light

Sometimes they'll be like and it kind of hides them up and then they go out there and they're And I'm like, was that what I? Heard you go do you you you have to just kind of Yeah, and you're just kind of like that sounding board for them I mean love us as it all the time that like glam is like her safe space

Madelyn (59:23)
no.

You embolden them, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mac McAbee (59:37)
because she knows like whatever happens in that and like we kind of help recharge her. allow her to kind of like, especially during a reunion and we take a break and we're doing touch-up, we're back in the dressing room, she can kind of like vent and get it all out. So like when she goes back in there, like she's like calm again and like you handle the situation that needs to be handled and everything.

Madelyn (59:54)
Right.

Yeah, the

reunions are specifically, you know, as opposed to confessionals where you're sort of a little bit isolated at least and can kind of gather your thoughts and do your thing and talk through it. The reunions are like, you are sitting right there, Andy is not pulling any punches and they get so heated and everyone's also had time to watch the season play out process and like.

they've thought about what they're coming with. You know what I mean? So in between sort of breaks in, on reunion specifically, you're saying that like everyone gets a chance to cool down. How, I know that they try to keep people sort of somewhat separated so that not a lot goes on back there. Are people still like trying to resolve stuff? And are they trying to keep them sort of separated so that, you know, everything's still caught on the couches?

Mac McAbee (1:00:50)
I mean for the most part yeah, I mean there have been like I think reunions where like things kind of because dressing rooms were near each other and like cameras had to come running Mics are all still on and everything so Reunions are fun. Reunions

Madelyn (1:00:59)
Mics are still on.

Mac McAbee (1:01:08)
So I did, I did not do Levitt's first year reunion because.

it was like conflict of schedule. So she actually did her own hair her first reunion. and then I did her the next year, which had like the floral dress.

Madelyn (1:01:19)
Mmm.

Mac McAbee (1:01:25)
It was like big waves

Madelyn (1:01:27)
favorite reunion look that you've done on

Mac McAbee (1:01:30)
I think this year's is going be my favorite.

Madelyn (1:01:34)
I love that. You're like, the thing that you haven't seen yet is my.

Mac McAbee (1:01:39)
there's a whole team in New York too like you've got Caroline who like works with Andy here in makeup you've got Julius and Priscilla and like all

these incredible hair and makeup artists that work in the clubhouse all the time with the Watch What Happens live. So, and then sometimes with Watch What Happens, sometimes we might get the opportunity to go to New York and everything, but it's also easier for somebody local to do it.

Madelyn (1:01:55)
Watch what happens, yeah.

Mac McAbee (1:02:08)
So there's like different glam squads for like different.

Madelyn (1:02:11)
Yeah, for

different locations. mean, Bravo's just got it locked down in general.

Mac McAbee (1:02:17)
Show about all the different glam squads and every

Madelyn (1:02:20)
that, does

it, okay, it seems like there is a good energy between everybody, but does it get a little possessive, like with different sort of cast members or anything?

Mac McAbee (1:02:33)
like you don't want somebody else working on them? No, not really, because I think that like, especially if they're like, watch what happens live, like I know that they're gonna look amazing.

Madelyn (1:02:36)
Yeah.

Mac McAbee (1:02:43)
I don't feel like there's like competitiveness, like with like the different glam squads Cause I know like BravoCon's like my like Super Bowl and actually getting to see other glam squads and like hairdressers that like I have mad respect for. Like.

Madelyn (1:02:51)
Mmm.

Yes, the multiverse

of makeup artists.

Mac McAbee (1:03:01)
Yeah, like Brandon Lombardi, like, I mean, I've known my first BravoCon, I almost like killed him in the lobby of the hotel because I tripped, he like tripped over my kit because I wasn't paying attention where I was going and everything. And I'm like, oh my God, like I follow you, like you, I have mad respect for you as a professional and as an artist. And I was like, and I almost like killed you in the middle of lobby at BravoCon.

Madelyn (1:03:22)
know that all the celebrities are running around, the Bravo Loverties, but you don't think about how their teams are also like, I've seen your work, I love what you do. And so you guys are also getting a chance to really mingle and meet with people that you really admire and love.

Mac McAbee (1:03:38)
And

then this last one like when we were in Vegas like, you know the hotel ever the casts all the lot Bravo liberties were saying and and like we're like hair and makeup we're all staying together so it's like on the elevators I could be Not only on the elevator with like one of the Bravo liberties, but I'm like, oh my god, like I respect your work so much I know you do like Eric Jane

It's kind of like you kind of get to meet those people and kind of like you start to build like a little web and within the hair and glam squads

Madelyn (1:04:08)
that.

mean, you're really, I mean, you're living your dream, feel like, Mac.

Mac McAbee (1:04:17)
this June will be open for seven years and I can't believe that like this little,

seeing Charleston kind of bloom just with reality TV but then also like you Danni McBride that moved here.

Madelyn (1:04:28)
I was gonna say, Righteous Gemstones films

there, they've become like a little production hub.

Mac McAbee (1:04:33)
It's huge and then you had OBX and you know I was fortunate to have friends at work more in that because I chose behind the chair It's hard to be behind the chair a salon owner and work on set like that So that's where reality kind of gives me like that little bit I get to work on set and I get to do stuff like that But then I also like get to be behind the chair and be a salon owner But mad respect to all my friends at work production all the time, but because of that, you know, we get to I get to day play I day played on the first season of like

which was like super fun and cool and then I was actually really excited I've always wanted to work on Righteous Gemstones and I got to day play this past season for the last one. It really is, yes! Full time this year.

Madelyn (1:05:06)
That's fun.

Were you, Natalie's on that show. Yeah.

Mac McAbee (1:05:22)
and so excited for her. Natalie actually helped me last season, season two was Southern Hospitality because it was during the writer's strike so they weren't working. So I was like, hey girl, was like, it's not like, it's not TV and film money, but it's something why you can't work in TV and scripted and stuff like that. So I was like, if you want to help, like, please, like I need it. And she was a, she was a huge help. Cause like,

Madelyn (1:05:29)
Awesome.

Mac McAbee (1:05:49)
Natalie is actually who got me on tour with rent and it all is so fun It all stems back to like this friend group that I became a part of when I first moved here with lava and Natalie was a part of that friend group But then they worked out some fashion week with Natalie So it was just kind of like still to this day like there's still these people like, you know all around living our lives and you know, I don't like go out on King Street every Friday and Saturday night anymore, but we're all still friends, but we're all like

Madelyn (1:05:53)
Right.

Yeah.

Mac McAbee (1:06:19)
like in our like entrepreneurial life like owning your business doing your thing like

Madelyn (1:06:25)
grow and do different things. mean, you really, like I said, you really are, I feel like living your dream and doing what you've really worked so hard for. what more would you like to do? Is there more sort of film and television? Is there more in the unscripted world, like dating shows or like where, what would you like to try?

Mac McAbee (1:06:45)
This is not the top like the climb it still has a lot to do I have an ultimate goal and it does involve unscripted like in being able to work with producers and stuff

and hear how they got into the game and shows that they put out there. Erin, who's worked on Charm and everything, she sat in my chair. I've been privileged to cut her hair. She worked on Hospitality. She lives in LA, but she just created a show with Stassi. She worked on The Kardashians. So they kind of bounce around to different shows and work on different stuff and have different backgrounds. But getting to hear the backside of it, how a show gets created, just telling these stories.

I remember watching the first season of the real world, I mean, I even auditioned for, like, the real world when I, like, was able to as soon as I turned 18.

Madelyn (1:07:36)
Love that.

Mac McAbee (1:07:37)
for New Orleans and everything. And that's when you like did a video of yourself and you like the VHS tape and everything. So it was just crazy. But then funny story, like I'm talking about that one day. I'm like, yeah, when I was 18, I was like, I wanted to be on the real world. And then Matt Shelley, who was a cameraman, director of photography, during like confessionals and stuff. He was like, oh yeah, I worked on that season of Real World. You have like people like working on these shows that have been in.

Madelyn (1:07:42)
Right.

been in the game.

Mac McAbee (1:08:07)
for a long time have seen like reality TV change and everything like Matt just did a whole thing they did a thing with him and Shep and they were kind of like Matt was interviewing Shep and talking about the 10 years of working on the show and they were even talking about how the cameras had changed years and everything and how much has changed just since the beginning of Southern Charm

Madelyn (1:08:12)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mac McAbee (1:08:29)
So, and I mean, they even use iPhone footage now, like, everything, so.

Madelyn (1:08:30)
Yeah, it's... Yep. It's very like

iPhones, GoPros. Like there's sort of a grace when it comes to quality in a sense, Things got really creative during COVID as well. And so I think there's just been, sort of a breaking of the fourth wall in terms of how this stuff is done. And, it's just, it's so cool to talk to you and to have seen your journey.

and everything that you're doing. Okay, I'll ask you a couple of questions before we wrap up. Number one, for someone who would love to see themselves in your position, who does hair or makeup and like does glam, and this is like, they're like, my God, if I could only do it for a show, what would be your advice to them?

Mac McAbee (1:08:59)
Beautiful.

I mean do it put your work out there like reach out if there is one thing so like growing up in the south It was like rude to ask for things that you wanted But once I moved to LA I realized really quickly like if you want something you have to ask for it So I would say like like partner up with somebody that's already doing it. They're like, hey, like I follow you I love your work, you know if you ever need like

Madelyn (1:09:23)
Mm-hmm.

Mac McAbee (1:09:40)
an assistant or you know you need backup like I would love like you just have to put yourself out there and like and ask for what you want because one thing I've realized about this industry it's not gonna come for you like you have to go for it so you have to you have to send the DM

Madelyn (1:09:48)
Totally.

100 % send the DM, like send the DM,

send the email, pull your seat up to the table and act like you belong there. Like act like you've been here before.

Mac McAbee (1:10:04)
Live.

Be with people that like when they're at tables that you're not at that they speak highly of you so they bring you to the table. And then it's also don't ever forget who brought you to the table, you know?

Madelyn (1:10:14)
Mm-hmm.

Ooh, say that again.

That is so true. aside obviously from like Charm and Hospitality, what reality shows and unscripted shows do you just love to watch? What are you watching right now?

Mac McAbee (1:10:30)
anything really like I love a housewife show like Salt Lake City is my favorite. So obviously I've been hooked to that.

lately. the ending of New York really like captivated me. I was kind of on the fence all season and now I'm like okay I am all in that. To me that finale was very much how I fell after Bermuda. Like Monica's season with Salt Lake City. But I love a good Mama June. Like

Madelyn (1:10:41)
Hmm.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Listen.

Have you watched, you said Salt Lake City, have you watched Secret Lives of Mormon Wives?

Mac McAbee (1:11:05)
I watched a couple episodes and I just...

Madelyn (1:11:08)
So

you've seen the Utah, what is it, the Utah wave? The Utah curls. I have to learn, I'm like, okay, there's the Utah curl. I'm like, what is the Charleston curl? because the Utah curl I was trying to do and I was like, what am I doing wrong?

Mac McAbee (1:11:12)
Utah curls.

You just have to leave the end straight. Like, I just don't like that. So like, I'll have people in the salon, they're like, I want like Utah curls. And I'm like, no, no, like, sorry. I can do a nice beach wave and leave the end straight, but not like four or five inches of the end straight.

Madelyn (1:11:34)
You're like, sorry, not here.

Sure. Yeah.

Mac McAbee (1:11:42)
Which is a beautiful thing, like, and honestly, I met Jessie at, Orlando this past summer and she was such a sweetheart

Madelyn (1:11:49)
yeah, she's got her own little Utah empire going on over there.

Mac McAbee (1:11:52)
Absolutely, mad respect for that. I mean, I got a couple episodes in and I just, didn't hook me. Like I was kind of distracted by the hair because like, we knew having a bob and then she has a red head and then she has a blonde. then, so I was like, my OCD and like my type A for continuity is like driving me crazy right now. So like, I have to put this one on the back burner.

Madelyn (1:12:15)
we've seen a lot of cast members sort of come and go. do you feel like when someone sits in your chair, maybe they're new, do you feel like you have a sense for like, oh, they're really gonna fit in, they're really gonna do well, they have a good, they have kind of a thick skin. Do you feel like you have a sense for kind of who will be a good fit with the cast?

Mac McAbee (1:12:34)
absolutely. Like, absolutely. Like O'Sheen is, he cracks me up. He is exactly who you get. And I mean, he's a character just in normal life.

Madelyn (1:12:46)
Mm-hmm.

Mac McAbee (1:12:47)
But it just, wasn't a good fit with the rest of the cast Like he's hilarious. And, but you could see like it was just a,

disconnect with everybody else, everything. So, I mean, you can definitely tell if somebody's gonna fit in. Like this year, like with Sally, I was like, she owns her shit. So, it's mad respect. She's like, yeah, like, you know, this is what I've done.

Madelyn (1:13:05)
Yeah.

I

was gonna say she owned, in the latest episode, she owned something that I'm not even gonna repeat. And I was like, okay, girl, yes, you say that, you own that. yeah, it's interesting to see sort of like how they're all, I think as a viewer, certainly now we're just more sort of savvy and educated behind the scenes. And we can tell when someone's being genuine and telling the truth and owning their whatever, how.

Mac McAbee (1:13:15)
No.

What was that?

Madelyn (1:13:39)
ugly it may be. And I think there's just much more respect for that versus someone who we can tell is like keeping us at a distance, you know?

Mac McAbee (1:13:47)
yeah,

not giving you everything going on. Yeah, you can definitely feel that. And I mean, I think when you sign up for reality, like you sign up for everything being out there because I will say if you try to hide a skeleton, it will find its way out some way or another. like you just kind of, you have to be able to like own it

Madelyn (1:13:51)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

yeah, yeah. Before we, okay, before we wrap, we're about mid season right now. What do we, without any spoilers, what do we have to look forward to for both charm and hospitality?

Mac McAbee (1:14:20)
hmm a lot of fun and a lot of drama and lot more messiness and Maybe some sparks of new relationships. I'm not sure so we'll have to wait now

Madelyn (1:14:23)
Mmm!

Okay, I have

some ideas, we'll see how it plays out. Well, it's just been so, so great to have you here. It's been so amazing from, for the past, I don't know, 12, 13 years to just like have met you, be your friend, and to stay connected and to now be sort of like meeting up again in this medium. And it's just, it's awesome. And I just love to see your work and.

Mac McAbee (1:14:35)
Yeah.

I love all...

Well, thank you. And it like... All things lead back to Charleston, you know?

Madelyn (1:14:59)
You're an amazing human.

Yeah,

they scarily do. They really do. perfect. Well, we look forward to the rest of the season and keeping up with you on Instagram. are at mac.does.hair, right? Yeah. And you post a ton of fun BTS on there. I highly recommend following. It's so fun to see the day in your life and your content and then the looks that you're doing. So it's always a fun follow for me.

Mac McAbee (1:15:06)
Thank

Yep, that's me.

Oh, thank you.

Bradley Carpenter (1:15:36)
So good to catch up with my friend Mac, If you're not watching and you're just listening, he is a redhead. And we have telepathy, an invisible string, if you will, that you only understand if you're a redhead. I'm still watching Traders. I am still watching Special Forces.

Traders is so diabolical. I'm so jealous I didn't develop this show. It is absolutely incredible. I also started watching Wags to Riches on Netflix. It's phenomenal. It is... their access to the wives of these prestigious athletes, artists is crazy.

would love to get someone from that show on to talk about how they made that happen with Kodak Black and Otrosinko and it's just absolutely crazy. I am actually headed to Reelscreen next week, And I'll be there meeting with my colleagues and friends and I'm so excited. It's always a week full of creativity.

creating relationships, that's what this industry is all about. So I'll give you maybe a little recap when I'm done, but I'm headed down to Miami. If you're listening and you see me, please say hi. Thanks so much for listening to The Unscripted Files. Don't forget to follow us at Unscripted Files pod on Instagram. And of course, like, subscribe, follow all the good things and we'll see you next week on The Unscripted Files.

Madelyn Cunningham (1:16:54)
The Unscripted Files is brought to you by Good Gravity Entertainment. Thank you to producer Bonnie Adams, Original Music by composer William Wright, Artwork by Lisa Schweikart, and Photography by Reid Schick.