Diana Nolan (00:00)
these shows kind of created a new like micro genre called, you know, true crime horror anthologies. And so we got to kind of pay homages to classic horror films in different moments within it. So it got,

it let us get a little bit more creative by telling like whose perspective are we seeing in this moment in Rikri? How can we put in some misdirects? How can we put in some jump scares? How can we make this feel more cinematic? Because true crime, you know,

it's been done every which way. So we're excited to try to find something new and different.

Madelyn (00:40)
Hey, welcome to The Unscripted Files. My name is Madeline Cunningham. I'm a development producer in the unscripted industry, bringing you candid conversations with the minds behind your favorite form of entertainment. Today we have a show runner and executive producer

on to talk about the two shows she's produced that fall into a new genre, It's a really fresh take. True crime is so saturated in our market. I was really interested to hear how these particular shows, shaped up. And our guest about her career trajectory all the way from being in high school and running

her own cable channel with her peers and classmates, all the way to her experience as a showrunner and EP, how she runs her sets, she empowers the creatives on her team, how they work within a very narrow true crime budget.

and the career insights are really incredible as well. So I want you to dive right into this conversation with showrunner and executive producer, Diana Nolan.

Madelyn (01:39)
Hey Diana, how are you doing?

Diana Nolan (01:41)
Hey good, how are you Madelyn

Madelyn (01:43)
I'm good. It's really great to chat with you. We have a lot of people in common and so I'm glad I could finally snag you to talk about some of work you've been doing.

Diana Nolan (01:51)
Yeah, no, I appreciate you having me. I've heard wonderful things.

Madelyn (01:55)
likewise, likewise. Well, tell me this, like what, you're an executive producer, you're a show runner. Talk to me about like who or what is responsible for kind of getting you into the industry. Did you always love reality TV? Did you stumble into it?

Diana Nolan (02:08)
Yeah, so I always liked storytelling. Like I wanted to, like I started writing stories, like doodling them when I was in elementary school. I've just always been interested in people and stories. And I was fortunate enough to go to a high school that had a student run television station. I was in Maryland. It was amazing. It was called Montgomery Blair High School in Silver Spring, Maryland. And...

Madelyn (02:25)
I'm so jealous.

Diana Nolan (02:31)
So we had a big student run station and I started producing shows for the local cable channel when I was 15. And I just kind of, you know, became obsessed and then decided that's what I wanted to do. And I just so happened to also be weirdly attracted to crimes and murders. So, I mean, not like doing them, but, you know, talking about them and reading about them.

Madelyn (02:51)
Not doing the

things, but talking about them, yeah.

Diana Nolan (02:54)
Yeah, just talking about it was fine. And so that kind of led me in that direction.

Madelyn (03:00)
That is so cool. mean, I think my school the most we did was a little morning announcements video, but having an entire opportunity to actually have a cable Was it more kind of new segmenty type things? Like what was the content?

Diana Nolan (03:13)
It was more like talking head news segmenty things. My show was about like tips for parents raising high school kids. I did not come up with it. I inherited it, which as a high schooler, I'm like, I don't know. So I had to find issues and then develop skills to cold call people and cold call experts and get them on the show. And it was such a good skill to have because I was a bit shy growing up. So.

Madelyn (03:15)
Okay.

Diana Nolan (03:38)
calling people and asking them for things wasn't in my comfort zone. So learning to do that at a young age definitely helped me with all of my work later, as you know, in terms of development, casting and research and all of that stuff. It was a nice little warmup.

Madelyn (03:54)
Oh, totally. can't imagine. And also, even just dealing with rejection too, of someone who's not interested in talking, doesn't want to do whatever. I mean, and getting to do that at 15 where you're like, all right, I got to get uncomfortable, chat with people I don't know. And then you're also coordinating them, scheduling them to get on. I can't think of many opportunities where you actually get that particular type of experience. how, I mean, that's just so awesome.

Diana Nolan (04:00)
Thank

Yeah, I was very, very lucky. We had a whole control room, so I learned how control rooms work. I learned how cameras worked and everything. So when I went to college, I wanted to translate those skills. was like, I don't want to take a step back. I want to learn how to move forward and do this more. So yeah, I was very fortunate to do that. And the kids that I worked with were all very driven. And we all just...

worked together, which was also good at learning how to build teams and work with others when you're in high school, especially others of different personalities and opinions.

Madelyn (04:54)
Totally, something you gotta do in this industry every day. So that was in Maryland. How did you get out to LA? Talk to me about, was that like the big move for you? Like, what did that journey look like?

Diana Nolan (05:07)
Oddly enough, no, I always wanted to move to New York. But I spent most of my life in Maryland up until I was in my late 20s. And then I just decided, I want to change. I want to try something new. And I had a slow westward migration. I moved to Colorado and worked in the Denver market for a bit and actually lived on a ranch with horses and chickens and worked on

Madelyn (05:30)
you

Diana Nolan (05:32)
like lifestyle shows and shows for the National Geographic and stuff like that. spent a lot of time in Alaska. So I kind of took a break from true crime for a while and did a bunch of other kinds of shows, which is really fun. But my days were kind of unusual. I'd wake up at sunrise, like break the ice in the horse, like horse chaff, like blanket them in the snow storms in the winter and then like go to work and run shows. I was a supervising producer at the time and then come home and yeah, it was, was interesting.

Madelyn (06:02)
I love that. you kind of become an expert in so many of these different worlds because you live in it for so long, depending on kind of what programming you're doing. I love that, that you were like, with the horses out in nature doing your thing. Okay, and then we finally make it.

Diana Nolan (06:12)
Yeah.

Madelyn (06:18)
out to LA, which is where you are right you start out as an associate producer, you're out in Denver as a supervising producer, now we know you're an executive producer show runner. What did the stepping stones look like for you to sort of ensure that you're always getting the call to come back and like,

trying to work your way up to where you are.

Diana Nolan (06:40)
sure. So I think that the biggest thing for me, so I actually started as an intern at America's Most Wanted and became a receptionist and then became an executive assistant. So I started at the very bottom and worked my way up. And I think what I always wanted to do was just, I was hungry, know, anytime, like I never sat around and was like looking at the clock waiting for the time to be up. If I finished what my...

Madelyn (06:45)
Mmm.

Diana Nolan (07:06)
job was, I would always go to someone else and be like, what can I help you with? Or what can you teach me? Like, can I help you in some way? Is there a job you don't want to do that I can do for you? So that, you know, you just, you know, people, if you're helping them, people are more inclined to help you. And then I'd look for things that I thought there was a need, like at America's Most Wanted, my one of my jobs was to read all of the viewer mail that came in for the show. And so that's like,

You know, you go from like letters that are like, hey, I love the show to hey, can you help my uncle? He was killed and then like all of a sudden you're looking at like a sod of torso and I was like, you know 22 and wasn't what I was expecting but what I did notice is that people who wrote into that show specifically we called it the court of last resort and it was for people who felt like they weren't they weren't getting the answers they needed elsewhere and it was just

Madelyn (07:58)
Mm.

Diana Nolan (08:05)
know, hundreds of people asking for help. And at the time our process was we had to craft a no, rejection letter for everybody. And then we would look through the letters and see, is there a story here that we can tell? And if there is, then we would pitch it at our pitch meetings, you know, after getting the relevant information. But there was like, what about all of the people, you know, the show was 42 minutes. You can only tell so many stories in 42 minutes. Like what about all the other people who are not able to help? And I felt like,

I felt like we were underserving them. So I created a viewer resource network so that every single person who wrote into the show would be able to have some avenue or some resource where they could go after us so that we were never leaving anyone hanging. So it was, and it was implemented until the show got canceled. I know it's back on the air now, which is amazing. I'm so happy for them.

I don't know if it's still being used now, but it was used for a while and we got really good feedback on it. I think it was always looking for what can be better and how can I fix it.

Madelyn (09:02)
Wow.

I love that. just trying to be useful, trying to see the gap, that's really cool. I love that because it's so not self-serving what you did. It obviously allowed you to have some visibility with the people around you at the show, but it was also such a selfless thing to...

read all these letters and be like, these like people need help. They need a community. They need a network like that is really, really awesome. And to hear that it continued to function, you know, even after you were gone until the end of the run is really, really cool.

Diana Nolan (09:43)
Yeah, it was nice to feel like I maybe helped people for a minute. And I think that in all of our shows, like, I don't know, I take a very like Girl Scout approach to things, like how can I make the situation better than when I got there? Or how can, like even I directed for a long time, so I would just go, you're plopped into people's worlds for a little bit and you share some.

Madelyn (09:48)
Yeah.

Diana Nolan (10:08)
big moments in their lives. I've worked on wedding shows, I've worked on birth shows, like those are big moments. Even in true crime shows, you're talking to someone about the worst thing that ever happened to them in their life. And so I think it's important, you know, for those of us who work in television to kind of really honor that, that trust that you're building with that person and make sure that when you leave, they feel better than they did. Like when they get up from the chair, the interview chair and make sure they feel better than they felt sitting down in the chair.

Madelyn (10:13)
Mm-hmm.

Diana Nolan (10:38)
Always try to do good when you can.

Madelyn (10:39)
Leave it better than you found it. Like that is, I feel like so key, whether it's a location that you are infiltrating for the day or a person that you're interacting with. I think that that principle just in what we do is so important. And in true crime specifically, mean, how else do you try to balance the, what innately is the entertainment factor that we have to give?

Diana Nolan (10:47)
Yeah, it's you, thanks.

Madelyn (11:05)
and serve up as producers, but also in the true crime genre specifically, there's gotta be a good amount of empathy there. So how do you personally approach that balance in other ways?

Diana Nolan (11:16)
Yeah, that's a very good question. So obviously with true crime, we're making television, we have a job to do, we need to tell a good story, we need to make it entertaining so people will watch. at the same time we have a responsibility to the subjects whose story we're telling, whether that's the victim themselves who no longer has a voice and we're telling their story for them, or the family members and friends and officers who we're interviewing.

to tell the story in a way that they feel good about and to treat them in a way that they feel good about. Again, like this is something terrible that happened and we wanna make sure that we honor that trust, because it's not easy for them to talk about. So I think that telling the story the best way we can, telling it with sensitivity, telling it with humanity and honoring the victim. And when I say victim,

I do mean the person who was killed, but also there's many victims in a true crime case, their loved ones, that they're all victims, you know? So making sure to be sensitive to that. And we often take a trauma-informed approach. So when I have directors go into the field, we talk about ways to approach certain questions we have in a sensitive way and be prepared for if anything sparks.

Madelyn (12:13)
Totally.

Diana Nolan (12:33)
PTSD, like these victims have all been through something terrible. And one of the shows I worked on, Fight or Flight, it was with a Canadian company. It was, they were very much down to take a trauma informed approach to production. And what that meant was, and to give some context, the show was about saving a woman who went around saving victims of domestic violence and sex trafficking. And

They wanted to make sure we had an all female team, so we did. But we also wanted to make sure that the victims themselves, or I'm gonna call them survivors, the survivors themselves felt cared for and seen, and we didn't re-traumatize them. But also with a female team, they come to the table with their own history and their own experiences from the past, which can get triggered by seeing these events too.

So you have two teams, two groups of people that you need to make sure are cared for in a production like this. So we brought on board a trauma counselor to educate the crew on ways to take a trauma-informed approach to production and also to protect themselves emotionally. And then we also had that trauma counselor on board for the duration of the show. So if any of our team members did need some additional help, they were there. And the same for...

if they had a situation that they ran into that they needed advice on how to handle in a sensitive way, they were there for that as well. And it ended up working really well. I was really glad we took that approach. I think we have a responsibility in production when we're dealing with situations that can be emotionally fraught to take a very sensitive and human first approach.

Madelyn (14:12)
100%. And even the way that you ensured that your crew and the creatives working on it as well were protected because certain situations might be upsetting is really incredible. I had a producer on from, who worked on escaping polygamy who, you know, ensured that they had like a certified counselor on set, had that resource for everyone involved in front of and behind the camera.

And so I love, I love to hear that. You know, what have you had any mentors, you know, specifically in this industry that have given you some good advice or sort of shaped you to approach your work in the way that you do?

Diana Nolan (14:51)
Yeah, think, so this is gonna sound a little woo woo, but like, you know how they say people come into your life for a reason, a season or forever? I think the same thing is true with mentors or people who shape your career. Sometimes it might be a moment where you're like, when I was at America's Most Wanted, my managing editor, I kept asking him questions and he was like, Diana figured out. And I was like, ooh.

And then, but I've taken that with me everywhere. Like I will not ask someone a question unless I've, you know, after until I've done all my due diligence

So I took that to heart. So I could say that's a mentor moment, right? Like that was some advice he gave, like maybe in a moment of frustration. And he was absolutely right to tell me that. And I've taken that to heart. I've had other mentors who have like the one who supported me on my request to have a trauma counselor on set with us. Like he was fantastic.

Madelyn (15:33)
Mm-hmm.

Diana Nolan (15:48)
give a shout out to David Casey. He was a fantastic human who wanted to build teams of good humans. So he was the head of current and every team he touched was better for it. There've also been mentors I've had who have helped me figure out how to balance my career in motherhood, which is not always easy to, everyone in this field, I think feels that struggle, anyone who has a family, it's a teeter totter.

So they've kind of given me advice there. So I think there's been a number over the years that I can think of, but probably would bore you if I went into the pros and cons of each one.

Madelyn (16:23)
No, but I love, think sometimes mentorship can be looked at so formally. And I have people, have a lot of people who reach out to me through the podcast and ask, do you have a mentor to identify? And I love that you said like mentorship can be just for a moment where like someone said, figure it out or, know, and, and you take that and it rides with you through the rest of your career. but you have to be open to it, right? Like you, if you,

Diana Nolan (16:27)
Mm-hmm.

What?

Madelyn (16:45)
The

mentorship moments only come along if you're open, you're hungry, you want to learn, which you are. And that's why everything can feel like a teachable moment if you allow it to be. But you got to be open to it.

Diana Nolan (16:56)
And mentorship,

100%. And mentorship isn't always like a warm fuzzy blanket either, right? It's not like some like little nanny, like a mug of cocoa who's like, here child, let me guide you in the right direction. Like it's gonna feel uncomfortable sometimes and it's gonna take like self-reflection and it's going to take making mistakes and having people call you on them and giving you positive feedback. And that's okay. And that's good.

Madelyn (17:04)
No.

You mentioned building teams and now that you're in a position to build your own teams, what do you look for? What's important to you when it comes to your APs, your producers, your directors? What are some green flags and red flags that you have?

Diana Nolan (17:39)
Yeah, for my APs and the people who I know are looking to rise up and get experience, the biggest things I'm looking for are people who are proactive and people who want to learn. I think that that personality type is always going to try to be better, to do more, to find opportunities, any moment or any opportunity that they can and always do their best work.

And I think that people who are also open to constructive feedback are important. Say asking for help is not a weakness. Asking for advice is not a weakness. If people come to me and are like, hey, I'm running into this situation and what can I do to get out of it? Or what are some tips or tricks? How can I be better? I love that and I definitely, that's a green flag for me.

And then for other positions, think I look for people who are obviously good at what they do, people who have a good storytelling sense, people who are driven, but also good people. think that I would rather if it was a choice between two individuals, one who was like aces top of their game, like wonderkin.

type person, but was a bit of an asshole versus somebody who was like, maybe not as good, like 85%, but like great team player, good EQ, you know, works well with others in the sandbox. I would go with that person because it's not just about what you do in your work. It's about team culture and mentality as well.

Madelyn (19:18)
Yeah, absolutely. And these are long, it's a lot of prep, it's long days, it's a lot of, you know, lot of collaboration. And so ensuring that at the end of the day, you want to be around the person and you want to at least like feel good about the meeting you're going into and the day on set you're about to have, like, and the morale of the team. Like that's all really important.

Diana Nolan (19:37)
Yeah. And when people are excited about the project or excited about a project, they do really good work. we had, when we were filming the coroner, the Recre team, know, they were in the field. had a really long day, like 12 hour day. And at the end of it, it was the last shoot of the season. And they were just like, let's all go bowling.

And they'd been together the whole season. They'd been together all day. And they were like, we like each other enough that we want to stick together and celebrate our work that we just did. And that's fantastic. But similarly, I think it's important as a showrunner to also make sure that your team feels like they have autonomy over their lives. Like what we are doing is important. But it's not rocket science, like no one's going to die.

If you have a doctor's appointment, it's important to go to your doctor's appointment. It's important to take care of your health. It's important to feel like you have some type of balance. Production can be so grueling and so hard that like I tell my teams, like, I don't care when you do your work, as long as your work gets done and as long as it gets done well and you're there for meetings. But like, if your kid has something like go take care of your kid. Like you're going to remember that. That's more important.

still get your work done, you know.

Madelyn (20:51)
Yes. Yeah, but that approach in production specifically, it can sometimes be hard to come by. I think it's pretty notorious for being like so grueling and not flexible. So the fact that you have that really human approach with your team is so nice. And I'm sure that that energy is always reciprocated. again, just, again, it feeds the whole team enthusiasm is infectious, like, and so is giving grace and, you know, knowing that everyone's human. So.

Well, let's dive in. You've done two really cool shows recently that I want to talk about specifically because they are such a fresh take on the true crime genre, sort of a horror true crime mashup. You're working in some jump scares. You're working in some elements of sort of classic horror films. The two series are The Real Murders on Elm Street and The Friday the 13th Murders. ⁓

And this was done with Grandma's House Productions. But talk to me about like, you know, what excited you about these two opportunities when they came about?

Diana Nolan (21:53)
Yeah, so when I first heard about the real murders on Elm Street, I was excited because the more I learned about what the network was looking for. So they wanted something that used, like you said, that had jump scares, which we were all just like, hmm, what does that mean? What can we do? How is this going to work?

Madelyn (22:11)
How intense are we getting?

Diana Nolan (22:15)
Yeah, totally. I think that, and with Friday the 13th, because Elm Street did so well, we got to kind of dip our toes a little bit more into things. we wanted, so this kind of, these shows kind of created a new like micro genre called, you know, true crime horror anthologies. And so we got to kind of pay homages to classic horror films in different moments within it. So it got,

it let us get a little bit more creative by telling like whose perspective are we seeing in this moment in Rikri? How can we put in some misdirects? How can we put in some jump scares? How can we make this feel more cinematic? Because true crime, you know,

it's been done every which way. So we're excited to try to find something new and different.

And people liked it the first season. We had a really good co-viewing numbers. So usually true crime has a traditionally female demographic. And for this show, we were getting some dudes into the mix. So that was nice to see that it had a broad appeal. ⁓ And then Friday the 13th murders, we wanted to kind of...

take it a little bit further, have a different feel. It needed to feel like a companion piece and we wanted to have a unique feel so that the shows were airing back to back, you knew exactly which show you were watching. You weren't getting confused and thinking this was just another episode of the same series. So it needed to feel fresh and different, needed to feel scary, but not too scary. It couldn't feel too...

gory, like gore was kept in a minimum. So with true crime also, because it's real stories and it's real people, like the audience knows that so they don't want to see gratuitous violence. They don't want to see blood and gore because that feels icky and it feels wrong because you know that this actually happened to somebody. So there is a fine line that you have to walk there where you make a show that still feels entertaining, but also sensitive.

to the victim at the same time. And that's a fine balance to walk.

Madelyn (24:25)
It is, and I'm sure managing that from the top down and ensuring that that was being communicated to everyone all the way down was something you probably had to have a like hold a tight line on, I guess.

I wonder if...

those jump scares and the desire to like work those in and think, I think this is going to work with the audience. It made sense because this is an audience that already is sort of engaging in risky viewing behavior by watching stuff that is like, do you know what I mean? Like it's, very scary anyway. And you guys just sort of push it over the limit by, by like making some editing choices and creative choices that actually make you jump and

gives you a physical reaction.

Diana Nolan (25:10)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Most of the people who watched it liked that feeling where they were just like, huh, like our first episode, there's this family, this guy's living in their walls, they don't know that, they're walking through this house, trying to find him, the dad reaches over to flip the light switch and a hand comes out and grabs his arm. And I think that got everybody when they watched it.

feedback we got, they were just like, that almost made me pee my pants. Like, was just very, like, that one got people. So once we saw that reaction, we were like, okay, how can we do more of that for the next season? And how can we translate that for the Friday the 13th murders? And it was kind of fun. But we, to do that, we wanted to make sure in the field, especially for Rikri, it had to feel like an indie horror film.

it couldn't feel like traditional re-create. It had to feel polished and elevated, but it couldn't feel just standard. So we had to really bring in directors who had a love for horror films and classic horror films, and who also understood the difference between horror films and indie horror films, because we wanted it to have that nostalgic feel as well.

but who also had that taste line and knew exactly where to, how far to push it and how far and when to hold back. And I know for some of the directors we had, we didn't have a ton for Friday, for Friday the 13th murders we had one, but they were, he was an indie horror director, incredibly talented, loved his take and ideas on everything.

But I could tell they're used to making horror films. So they're like, okay, we're gonna do this. And I'd be like, sorry to be a party pooper here, guys, but we can't do that. And they're just like, but it would be so good. And I'm like, I know, but we can't. You know what, that's over the taste line.

Madelyn (26:59)
Yeah.

Yeah, well, that is your job too. It's just you create the boundaries on either side and you try to empower your directors and your creatives to do their thing. But you also have to make sure that you are staying within those boundaries for the consistency of the tone of the show and also just for knowing exactly what you're trying to achieve. how do you approach, I mean, when you're working with all these creatives and a few different directors on one show,

What is your approach to trying to empower that creative autonomy while also having to be that party pooper, being like, that's not going to work, guys? How do you approach that?

Diana Nolan (27:38)
Well, obviously if you're hiring people, you trust their work. Like you have to hire people that you know do a good job. So my strategy is to, you we would say, okay, here are the scenes that we've written. Like take a look. Now, like, what are your thoughts about this? Is there anything you want to build off of? Anything you want to change? Like how do you envision this? Like what kinds of jump scares do you see? What kind, you know?

take the reins and then we'll have, we had a lot of creative meetings back and forth where we would say, you know, how can we take the content and your vision and make them fit? And if I had to be the party pooper, I would be the party pooper. And, but the directors were great. Like they would take it in stride and they, know, if they did have a like a, bummer moment, like they got over it quickly and then they'd be like, okay, well here's what we can do. Like.

does it pass the sniff test? And I'd say, yeah, okay, yeah, that sounds good. And then we'd go from there. So there was a lot of collaboration, which was key. And then also just working within our budget, which was great for also indie

Madelyn (28:38)
Listen, I'm glad you brought this up because even though we're getting inspiration, you know, from horror films and even indie horror films, the budget is not giving narrative. Like, we know that true crime works within a really narrow budget, but you guys are having to execute stories from all across the country in different seasons. You're having to do, trudge through snow. Like, you're having to do so many different things. You're also having to find locations.

that are accurate to the story or as accurate as they can be. So how do you and your team sort of approach trying to get creative and execute at a high level, but stay within your budget?

Diana Nolan (29:14)
Very carefully. if I had a penny for every time there was a request for it, or someone being like, if I only had this much more money, like we can make it, we can do something cool. Like I'd be rich. It was definitely a challenge to try to stick within the budgets. As you said, true crime has a narrow budget anyway.

And budgets aren't getting bigger, you know, across the board. Like they're staying small. We also had to do the show for 3 % less than we did last season. So that was an added challenge. But I think this is where like our section of the industry, we've never had a lot of money to work with. So we all are really good at coming up with ideas on how we can do things.

All of the recreative was shot in LA. LA is super expensive to film in as everybody knows and location fees have only gone up. Everything has only gotten more expensive across the board. Everyone's feeling that, even at the grocery store. So we really had to think outside the box with what we could do. And for one of the episodes on the real murders on Elm Street, it was in Massachusetts in the winter time.

And as I'm sure you heard, and our director for that was incredibly talented and was able to like think of ways to shoot this so that it looked like it was in the snow. And like there's a snow storm scene where he shot this officer walking through the snow and it's all shot inside and they used like real snow that they made.

Madelyn (30:22)
Hahaha

Diana Nolan (30:49)
so that they could have these real footprints because one of the key pieces of evidence was a footprint in the snow. So we knew we couldn't use snow pads or fabric or anything like that. It had to be a real footprint. And they were able to kind of create this whole set and build this whole little room inside that ended up looking like outdoors Massachusetts. It was really impressive. And I still don't know how they did it, but they pulled it off.

Madelyn (31:14)
titular Puma print, like wasn't that what it was? was like, and it's, I mean, it's sold and don't get me wrong, like working within budgets is always a part of it. You could have millions of dollars and everyone's always gonna wish they had more, but there is something about having a creative problem and like just coming up with a savvy solution that is so satisfying.

Diana Nolan (31:17)
Yeah, yeah.

Madelyn (31:35)
And it feels good. It feels honestly better than if they would have just been like, all right, here, go to Massachusetts and shoot it. Like there is something so satisfying, don't you think, going, all right, how are we going to do this? And by the end of the call, the end of the shoot, the end of the day, you know, you've made it happen.

Diana Nolan (31:51)
Totally, yeah, absolutely. like that all goes to like in terms of thinking outside the box that way, like we would all have creative meetings where we would give ideas and I'd give my thoughts, but like that really goes to the team who was in charge of that aspect. Like that credit goes fully to the Recruit team, to the director, to the set, you know, the set designer and the props designer. Like they, that...

took a lot of skill to be able to be like, okay, we don't have X, Y, Z, what do we have? How can we make a set with like a string and a potato and have it look good? And they were able to do that.

Madelyn (32:28)
Yes.

It always feels really, really good. we talked about this a little bit, but what's your key to sort of ensuring like you're keeping morale high and like making sure everyone is like keeping with the vision, even when you're tired, even when we're towards the end of the day. How do you sort of run?

the set and ensure that everyone's, you know, keeping a good attitude.

Diana Nolan (32:52)
Yeah, so this sounds really stupid and small, I think just like saying thank you to people helps a lot.

Madelyn (33:00)
So underrated. It's so underrated.

Diana Nolan (33:02)
Yeah, it makes

like recognizing their work being like, hey, you did this, thank you, that was really great. Like it's little, but I think that people oftentimes just wanna be seen and just so seeing them for a moment and saying thank you is I think I've noticed.

keeps morale up a lot, like it makes people feel good. And when they feel seen, then they are like, okay, it's a way to, it's a reason to keep going. I think team building is also key there, building people who are kind to each other on set, who help each other out. It only takes one person to really start to rot team morale and that can go south quickly. So putting teams together that,

work cohesively can help long-term with morale. And then also, on the last day, so obviously I can't be on set every day because I have to manage everything else, but I try to come a few times and I try to say thank you on the last day and be there for the last day and thank everybody and maybe give them a treat, whether it's something silly like ice cream sandwiches or whatever that.

you know, it was coming from me and not from the show budget, just as a personal thank you for everybody working so hard. You know, I wish that I could give them more, but like I give what I have. And if that is just like as simple as a thank you, then, you know, it seems to help.

Madelyn (34:29)
a dozen donuts will do wonders. Like, because it's just at the end of the day, it's symbolic of just recognition, appreciation, all the things that we want when we're working hard. You mentioned a couple of creative decisions on these two shows, you know, the Massachusetts in the snow, one of the other jump scares. What other,

creative decisions or in the editing and the pacing and the music, like really, did you like really love?

Diana Nolan (34:56)
Hmm. I liked on the Friday the 13th murders, we wanted to have like a signature soundtrack. And we did that on Elm Street too. But like we wanted something really simple for the Friday the 13th murders. And one of our editors, super talented, he sent me this track one day and was like, ooh, I found this. What do you think of this? And it was this like simple like, and so we're like, ooh.

Madelyn (35:22)
you

Diana Nolan (35:24)
that would be cool when the murderer is here. Like we want to kind of give, like with the Friday the 13th murders, we wanted to give the murderers POV a lot of, know, to use that appropriately. Like in every moment we're like, okay, is this the predator watching perspective or is it the praise perspective? And how can we interplay those off of each other to build tension? And so part of that,

was the music because once we established this music as being the predator's music, the killer's music, then you didn't even need to see the killer to know that they were there. So you could have the person, I don't know, like making popcorn or something like that. And then you start to hear that like kind of music come into play. And the viewer by that point knows like, yeah, so that was.

Madelyn (36:14)
Your hair is standing up. Well, whether they know it or not

too, whether it's like a subconscious, danger is impending. But being able to sort of have those even like subtle little pieces to again, affect the senses so effectively is really cool.

Diana Nolan (36:31)
Yeah, so that part was fun. We also tried to throw little Easter eggs to some of our favorite horror movies in there. Like we have in the first episode of the Friday the 13th murders, we have him cooking like a Jiffy Pop thing of popcorn when he's at home because that was one of my favorite horror movies from that scene. So we were kind of with the producers, we're like, okay, for your episodes, what horror movie are you making?

Or what horror moments can you incorporate into this? Like, based on this story, like, what horror movie is it? Is it The Hills Have Eyes? Is it Scream? Is it like, what movie do you love and what can you kind of put in there so that the viewers, when they watch it, are like, like, I remember that, or I feel that. They get that nostalgic feel. While also, of course, being sensitive to the story and being true to the story.

Madelyn (37:21)
Yeah, it's a tough bounce, but you guys, really did strike it so well. And again, I feel like it was such a fresh take on a genre that has been done every which way. It was really creative. It was still sensitive. And none of that's easy and it comes with a lot of effort, a lot of time. And it just works so well. And it was...

Diana Nolan (37:48)
Thank

Madelyn (37:49)
The perf of obviously having it air in the month of October, you know, felt right for the viewer too. So how do you, what's your personal measure of success on a project? You know, obviously you're getting network notes, know, if you, a renewal as always, like the best measure of success, but what are some other ways, you know, that, you know, when you're done, it feels good for you.

Diana Nolan (37:53)
Okay.

rise.

Yeah, obviously like you said, there's the metrics of it. We're very thankful that both of the shows, The Real Murders on Elm Street 2 and The Friday the 13th Murders premiered in the top 10 on HBO Max. The Friday the 13th Murders was number three for a number of weeks, which was fun because that was kind of like my baby that I got to develop at the same time as...

the real murders on Elm Street and we ran them both at the same time. running two shows at the same time is not easy. It was very challenging. So being able to know that all that hard work paid off and both shows premiered in the top 10, like felt really good and really validating to me. And then I think.

Madelyn (38:42)
now.

Diana Nolan (38:55)
seeing the teams who worked on the shows still engaged in them. Like I still get text messages from producers being like, like, hey, we're still here. Like people are still watching. Or I have someone else that I don't know be like, or I'll talk to someone and they're like, my mom likes the show right now, the Friday the 13th murder is. I'll be like, ooh, I don't say anything, but like feels good. ⁓ Yeah, it feels good. So I think like knowing that

Madelyn (39:17)
It feels good.

Diana Nolan (39:22)
you worked really hard and that the results of that work is people enjoying the final result, I think that feels really satisfying.

Madelyn (39:31)
Yeah, 100%. It was really cool to see them on the HBO banner. And the fact that, you on the Friday the 13th murders got to get in kind of on the ground level and really help shape it from the bottom up. Like I'm sure that felt extremely satisfying and really creatively satisfying for you too. So that's awesome. ⁓

Diana Nolan (39:49)
Yeah. Yeah, it was.

Madelyn (39:51)
I want to know what are you like, you're working a lot in true crime, but like, what are you watching on the side? Do you watch a lot of unscripted? Are you watching true crime? Are you watching scripted?

Diana Nolan (40:02)
Yeah, so my husband, who was the co-EP on the show, we work a lot together. We are watching Squid Games, the challenge. Really liked the Squid Games, so Squid Games, the challenge we're watching. And then I'm watching Wednesday on Netflix. Yeah, so I guess those are both pretty dark, so I'm like, oh, maybe that's me. Or some of my tastes lie.

Madelyn (40:14)
Yes.

So good.

At least

you're consistent, Diana.

Diana Nolan (40:31)
Yeah, there we go. And then,

you know, I'll take a little vacation until love is blind for a while. And like, you know, if I want some fluff, I think like the consistency in what I watch is like, I am fascinated with people and stories about people and just good, engaging storytelling, like whether that's an escapism type show that I want right that moment, or whether it's like something, you know, looking deeper into.

individual relationships.

Madelyn (41:00)
Yes, well then there's just so, there's so much to choose from. There's so much good stuff out there. It's, we have like the pick of anything, whether it's like, what is happening on the new season of Love is Blind in Denver? Why are they doing this? To like, what's happening at Wednesday Addams Private School for Weirdos? And like, what's that about? Like it's all, it's all.

Diana Nolan (41:21)
I know. I feel so

old because my kids, they're just like, what do I want to watch today? like they'll not that, you know, yes, screens and kids, like I don't let them watch a ton of TV and they don't even know what I do other than mommy makes scary shows. but I tell them, I'm like, well, you know, on my day, we just had the TV guide that would come in in the mail and

We just highlight what we wanted to watch. We'd have to pick one thing and if it was if we missed it, we missed it and that was it. And they're just like what? know, they don't... ⁓

Madelyn (41:44)
Mm-hmm.

They can't even fathom

it. I honestly am loving what's happening with Dancing with the Stars right now, only because it is feeling like a true you're tuning in at eight o'clock. Everyone I know, I was at a happy hour Tuesday night, people left early. They're like, we gotta go watch Dancing with the Stars. And I'm kind of loving it because it's giving like American Idol back in the day, this collective viewing experience, this collective cultural conversation. And so.

It's really fun. yeah, kids not even being like, when they see a commercial break being like, what is this? It's like so funny.

Diana Nolan (42:25)
What is that? Yeah,

it was so funny. Yeah, I feel very old, but...

Madelyn (42:29)
They have no idea. I know they don't know how good they have it. ⁓

What's some advice you'd give to someone trying to break into the industry at this moment?

Diana Nolan (42:39)
So I would say to be as adaptable as possible. I think that our industry is changing so much right now, so quickly. We all, or at least when I was coming up in the industry, the streamers were just getting started and it was an exciting time. Now there's another big shift into verticals and digital platforms. So there's that kind of revolution. And then with AI,

Lots of things are going to be coming down the pike that are going to change how our industry works. So I think that being informed about those things, doing your research and then being adaptable. And then once again, how can I help? What can I do? Like, what are the gaps? How can I fill them? Just really like doing your best to be proactive.

Madelyn (43:26)
Good advice. There are a lot of changes, a lot of changes afoot and resistance is futile. So figure out how you can just adapt. think that's great. Do you have any set day rituals? Like, do you have a, are you a coffee person, a tea person? Like, do you have anything to prep you for the long day ahead?

Diana Nolan (43:29)
changes.

Yeah, have, I mean, I do like my coffee. I mean, my rituals, I guess, are I hang out with my kids in the morning and that's special time for me, getting them ready for school, taking them to school, grabbing my coffee, having a breath and then, all right, let's get started. And then in the evenings, I also try to make time for my kids. And even if that's just like an hour, you know, to...

check in with them, how's your day? Like, how is everything going? Do you need help with your homework? That kind of thing. And then usually, you know, on these two shows, I would work after they went to sleep until the wee hours and then rinse and repeat. I think just making sure that you, for me, it was important to carve out a little time outside the shows to spend time, you know, some focused time with my family. That was kind of, it was really important to me.

Madelyn (44:33)
Yeah, absolutely, that's really sweet. A lot of times you're running really long, we're running really long Zoom calls. What's the secret to keeping everyone engaged on a really long Zoom?

Diana Nolan (44:45)
Ooh, I don't know. ⁓ Well, I start, so I don't know if this is keeping people engaged, but like, and my teams like laugh about it and make fun of me, but I think they secretly love it. We have a question of the day starting every meeting and it's something stupid. Like what, you had an underwhelming superpower, like you could fly, but only three inches off the ground, like.

Madelyn (44:47)
Ha!

Love that.

Diana Nolan (45:10)
what would your underwhelming superpower be? Or just ridiculous questions. It's how I start all my meetings. And everyone kind of rolls their eyes and laughs. then you end up laughing. You get to know the teams, which is in a remote environment. It's not like you gather around the water cooler anymore to swap stories and talk. So you have to make the most of that Zoom real estate to team build in addition to trading information.

Madelyn (45:14)
Mm-hmm.

Totally.

Diana Nolan (45:35)
So doing silly things so people get to know each other on a more personal level, I think is important.

Madelyn (45:42)
Yeah, I agree with you 100%. I love that. the question person, whether it's at dinner or on a thing, I'm the question person. So I absolutely love that. Is there a genre that you, huh?

Diana Nolan (45:47)
Perfect.

I

should ask you for material because I need questions to ask.

Madelyn (45:57)
Yeah, I have

a list. Is there a genre you'd love to sort of work in or like dip your toe into?

Diana Nolan (46:04)
Yeah, actually I would love to try scripted out for a few reasons. One, because I know how to do a lot with a little. And then two, because with my career, I've traveled to so many places, got met so many types of different people and observed so many types of different people in weird situations that like I'm fascinated with how what makes people tick.

Madelyn (46:08)
Mm.

Diana Nolan (46:27)
And I think that taking some of those experiences and people I've met and being able to use them as inspiration for a scripted format would be really, really fun.

Madelyn (46:36)
yeah, 100%. Well, hope, all fingers crossed for you. I hope you get to dip your toe in there soon. It was so awesome to talk to you and hear about all of your success, how you so intentionally approach your work with a lot of empathy. And also, like I loved, and I appreciate how transparent you are about balancing motherhood as well and trying to figure that out. Like it's really...

Diana Nolan (46:42)
Thank you.

Madelyn (47:01)
incredible and refreshing to hear and I know there's so many people who can relate. So thank you so much for sharing. It was awesome to have you on.

Diana Nolan (47:08)
Thank you so much. really appreciate that.

Madelyn (47:09)
Thanks.

Madelyn (47:17)
Thanks so much for listening. I really enjoyed that conversation with Diana. We have a lot of mutual people in common and I know several people who worked on the show she's talking about. And so it's really cool to hear from her ⁓ and getting her perspective. ⁓ we will be taking a break next week for Thanksgiving.

And then we'll be back with our final episode of the season on December 5th. This is going to be a 2025 wrap-up, looking forward into 2026, some industry trends that we're seeing and more. So make sure you don't miss it. I hope you guys have a wonderful holiday. Don't forget to like, subscribe, rate, review, and we'll see you next week on The Unscripted Files.