Matt Dissinger (00:00)
Hard Knocks training camp, you are embedded with a team for six to seven weeks straight, no breaks, no days off.

I always thought it was really important to get everyone to feel empowered, to feel like they're important and they're part of the creative process, not just the person that puts the gear away or make sure we're stocked up on crafty. if you have ideas come to me, the more invested I think people are in any given project, I think the more successful you're going to be.

Madelyn Cunningham (00:32)
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Unscripted Files. My name is Madelyn Cunningham. I am a development producer in the unscripted industry, bringing you exclusive insights, candid conversations with the creatives behind your favorite unscripted entertainment. Whether it's reality, dating, culinary, documentary, we're talking to all of the big wigs and the unsung heroes behind the industry. I hope you guys had a great summer.

Madelyn Cunningham (00:59)
It's a new season, so I wanted to be able to offer you guys some other new things. So every other Monday, I will be dropping a mini-sode with unscripted industry expert, Emily Wilson. She's going to give me the latest in unscripted news, whether it is mergers and acquisitions, commissions, green lights, and we are just gonna have a little chat about them. make sure to subscribe, put your downloads on, and we'll be dropping an episode.

every other Monday So that you can stay up to date and on top of everything unscripted.

Madelyn Cunningham (01:25)
We are literally going to kick off this season with the senior producer at NFL Films, Matt Dissinger. from intern at NFL Films all the way to directing Hard Knocks, as well as the director of Quarterback,

which is the series on Netflix that follows three quarterbacks over the course of a season. It was so interesting to talk to him about sports storytelling. Hard Knock specifically turns around in near real time. So talking to him about that fine tuned machine and ultimately about how sports is having its moment, especially in popular media and culture. So really incredible conversation. Thanks so much for being back. I can't wait for the rest of the season.

here is my conversation with senior producer, NFL Films, Matt Dissinger.

Madelyn Cunningham (02:17)
Welcome to the Unscripted Files. How you doing? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, in honor of football season, it kind of feels like the perfect way to kick things off. You've been with NFL Films for quite a while. I mean, I see some of your first credits, know, early 2000s, 2007, eight. Talk to me about how you got started with NFL Films and what drew you to sports entertainment.

Matt Dissinger (02:19)
Good, thanks for having me.

Yeah, I

finished college and I had done an internship at a television station in Boston in their sports department. I was like, oh, this is great. I want to do this for a living. And then as anyone knows, you attempt to get your foot in the door into the field and it's impossible. So I went to grad school for broadcast telecommunications and mass media at Temple. And I remember one day I was in a class and they're like, hey, if you like sports, NFL Films is right over the bridge. And I was like, I like sports. So I applied for an internship.

Madelyn Cunningham (03:09)
You

Matt Dissinger (03:11)
was sort of right time, right place. The NFL network had just started, so there was sort of this brand new world for NFL Films who is owned by the NFL. And I got lucky and was hired right after my internship and been here ever since.

Madelyn Cunningham (03:27)
I mean, that kind of longevity in one place is kind of rare nowadays, especially in entertainment. You you started, you said you started an internship, then I see you had associate producer role on like Hard Knocks and nearly two decades later, you you're directing this series. When you look at that kind of career arc, like what can you attribute about sort of your work ethic and your traits that allow for you to have that kind of movement?

Matt Dissinger (03:38)
Mm-hmm.

That was funny because 2006 Kansas City Chiefs Hard Knocks was the first one I was a part of. was assigned, I actually operated the robotic cameras, was my first job on Hard Knocks. And I remember Steve Sable, who is in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. He is the sort of founder of our company. I remember we had a big meeting before anyone left and he said to us that Hard Knocks was like having our Super Bowl before the season started. And I remember in that moment I said to myself,

Well, I want to direct the show one day I think it was just you know the attitude of you have to do the dirty work, you know, you have to be the PA you have to You know, whatever the cliches are go get coffee and you just sort of start proving your worth Especially in this company this company sort of came from a very family-based mom-and-pop even though it's this huge, you know NFL conglomerate now but

You prove your worth, you sort of take note and are very observant and I always thought of myself as very resourceful, absorbing what I thought worked, always sort of registering what I would do differently when I got the opportunity. And I was, yeah, I was really lucky. Got my dream job, what was that, like 12, 13 years into my career. So, it was really exciting.

Madelyn Cunningham (05:11)
No, that is so exciting. I think being able to say that and knowing that you put the work in and, you know, paying your dues, I feel like I don't know if I necessarily love the term, but it's true. I mean, you really do. Like in a day and age where we really want sort of instant satisfaction and results, there is something to be said for really just putting in the work and, you know, being able to prove yourself.

How did you feel that first day on set as a director? Did you feel like you felt pretty comfortable or were you totally like freaking out?

Matt Dissinger (05:36)
Ugh.

You know, there's a little bit, I mean, I felt pretty comfortable. ⁓ I had been at that point in time from 06 to 15 or whatever. There wasn't a Hard Knocks every single year, but I knew what I was doing. But there's always, I think, this element of sort of fake it till you make it when you get into those positions. I mean, look, I was as prepared as prepared can be, but there's still things you can just never prepare for. You know, the thing I tell people, actually, the guy that is directing Hard Knocks this year was part of my staff.

his first year when I was the first, my first year as lead director. And we were just talking recently, I was trying to give him advice and I go, nothing can prepare you because you go from, you know, part of the directing staff to now everybody knows your name. And when you're on the field, all eyes are on you in a way. Like when you are maybe the third director, maybe no one's really paying attention, but if you're the lead director, you know, you just can't be scrolling Instagram

on your phone in the middle of practice, it just changes, everything changes. And so one of the things that changed for me was making it really important when you do a show like Hard Knocks and you're the director to try to know everyone's name, everyone's role with the team you're on, just to be respectful. And I think it just sort of earns you a certain amount of trust with the team, that you're taking everybody seriously, that you value everyone from, you know.

equipment staff all the way up to the team president. So that was something that I learned in my first year directing.

Madelyn Cunningham (07:09)
Well, yeah, and having been in those positions, it becomes pretty easy to ensure that you are recognizing everyone on set and being inclusive because it seems like the show really nurtures, can nurture people from the ground up. You were just saying the current director was a part of your team and it seems like there's an environment that's fostering a lot of upward growth and movement and that is encouraging people to step into those roles and empowering them, which is really, really cool.

What's kind of a major career lesson that you learned early on that you'll kind of never forget?

Matt Dissinger (07:45)
I think something that I learned early on, especially with Hard Knocks being such a huge part of my career, I thought it was really important to empower everyone on that crew. And it's such a unique thing in our industry and in our building. mean, Hard Knocks training camp, you are embedded with a team for six to seven weeks straight, no breaks, no days off. You live with the team, you see them every single day for whatever that ends up being.

8, 10, 12 hours. So I always thought it was really important to get everyone to feel empowered, to feel like they're important and they're part of the creative process, not just the person that whatever puts the gear away or make sure we're stocked up on crafty. Like if you have ideas come to me, like the more invested I think people are in any given project, I think the more successful you're going to be. And that was just something I sort of learned. I don't know that that was something I

was taught necessarily. I maybe felt a certain way as not the lead director and when I got that position I thought I'm gonna this is the way I'm gonna operate when it's my opportunity. So hopefully you know that paid off in a practical way for the people that I worked with and hopefully they felt that as well. I mean I certainly feel like the results were on the screen you know when we made our

Madelyn Cunningham (09:06)
Yeah, 100%.

Well, it's tough to be in those positions where you do have ideas and you have that feeling, that itching, like you were saying of like, I want to direct this show. And you know that you have creative, sort of collaborative ideas. And so I think, like I said, it's probably pretty natural for once you got in that position, you were like, let me ensure that I'm hearing from everyone and creating this open environment.

You've been a storytelling in this space for a while, but I feel like sports is having such a major moment. mean, at least for me on the development side, every mandate I see is sports, sports, sports. It's been that way for a couple of years. I know it's been your whole life, what, you know, how has the industry and its athletes sort of evolved over the past two decades? Like what huge changes have you seen?

Matt Dissinger (09:55)
think something that has changed big time is cable and people cutting the cord and how sports sort of holds this very important place now in our industry where it's sort of the one thing that people watch live. There's so many things, even the most popular of shows I think people might even watch the next day, but no one is going to record NFL Sundays and

watch them the next day they're gonna be out of the loop so I think that

has made, especially the NFL, super valuable. There's very few things anymore that I think someone's going to sit down and watch commercials, watch live as it's happening. And so, you know, I feel like that sort of took a little while to enter into the streaming space. know, Netflix, I know initially was like, we don't need the NFL. We want nothing to do with the NFL. And now we did quarterback, which was so successful that that led to Netflix having live games.

So it's sort of interesting. Sports is a very unique commodity, I think, in this industry. It's all I've known. But going from a place where Netflix is like, no thank you, to NFL, and then now being a huge partner of ours, I think, kind of shows you the evolution and just how important sports is in our media environment.

Madelyn Cunningham (11:19)
Yeah, 100%. I mean, you were talking about the fact that people don't want to record it and watch it the next day because then they miss out on the collective cultural conversation. And I wonder if that thirst for sports content, stuff that's live and of the moment, do you think it comes from potentially post-pandemic wanting to all collectively experience and be a part of something? Do you think that that maybe is feeding the frenzy a bit?

Matt Dissinger (11:45)
Yeah, I think so. mean, I think it's always existed. You know, it's obviously evolved. That is maybe something that got stronger after the pandemic, because sports has always sort of been about community, like fan bases. You know, I'm sure there's certain...

father-in-law, son-in-law combinations, that's the only thing they talk about. I mean, it just is pervasive everywhere. And coming into work the next day, talking about the local team and what happened in the game is such a huge part of what we do. And obviously that's evolved with social media now where, one point I'm sure it was, like I remember being in high school for instance, and if you didn't watch, whatever.

the Super Bowl or World Series or whatever the big sporting event was, you were out of the loop. Now I'm sure that that has expanded and become even more important. It's just one of those things I think that's, if anything has been steadfast, it's like hasn't really become less important. It's only gained importance where maybe other things in the media landscape have not been so important. For instance, like watching a show the night it airs, kind of, you know, we're in an era now of binge TV where you sort of catch up when you catch up, but that's just not the case with sports and never has

been. I think, yeah, the fact that it sort of remains what it's always been but stronger, maybe more widespread with the internet and social media is kind of what makes it so important.

Madelyn Cunningham (13:03)
Yeah,

I think only sports and Love Island have that power right now. Like honestly, like you have to watch it that night. again, because like you're voting it live and to be part of that conversation. I also think that people have their teams, but I also feel like people fall in love with athletes. and social media has allowed us an entry point into their day-to-day lives to see what they're like. Whereas 20 years ago, it wasn't necessarily like that.

And so we're really getting to fall in love with these personalities. And that's a big part of what you do too, is like humanizing these individuals and diving deeper into their story. Football, there's so many breakdowns and there's so many angles and there's so much coverage. it's been around for a long time. How do you approach keeping it fresh after,

replay and slow-mo how are you sort of approaching, you know, your football shows to try and keep it fresh and up-to-date?

Matt Dissinger (13:55)
It's sort of simple in a way because the more that you can present relatable things about these athletes to an audience, the better off you're going to be. I great stories are great stories, so they should apply universally. Like, you know, when you're working on a show like quarterback, for instance, and you're showing sort of the demands on the starting quarterback's life and what they have going on at home and like how they try to disconnect from the game when they get home with their kids. That's something that a lot of

people can relate to it. You don't have to be a star quarterback to get it and to sort of, you know, start becoming interested in these guys' stories and rooting for them. So it's really like a lot of what NFL films has done since its inception is sort of mythologize the NFL, which is awesome. And so there's a little bit of that with everything we do. I'm not going to pretend like we don't do that in quarterback as well. But also the more that you can sort of present the relatability and the human aspect of these stories that are universally

I think appealing. I think that's sort of the sweet spot for what we do.

Madelyn Cunningham (15:00)
Yeah, absolutely. Stuff that transcends status and talent. Absolutely, that's what I think makes it so compelling. So as much as people like to conspire that the NFL is scripted, mean, none of what you do can really be predictable for the most part, especially every season of Hard Knocks or what's going to play out with the three quarterbacks you're following. So how do you craft something compelling when you have no control?

Matt Dissinger (15:10)
Yeah.

Madelyn Cunningham (15:27)
over the outcome.

Matt Dissinger (15:28)
The answer is almost always you have to film a lot. You know what mean? Especially with the Hard Knocks thing we used to say, and as the director doing media, would always be, we shoot 300 minutes for every one minute that makes the show. And I'm sure that has fluctuated probably even more so now that it's all digital. But it is, I mean, you have to, especially with Hard Knocks specifically, to be honest with everybody, training camp is incredibly boring. And everyone that participates in training camps knows that's true.

And so it's really an achievement, I think, to go into this where it's sort Groundhog's Day for all these guys and just sift through enough of the volume of footage that we find and find the interesting stories. I mean, we've always been able to do it, but I don't know how people really realize just how much work goes into that. not like something hugely entertaining is happening all the time. it's really, you know, filming high volume, being perceptive, having good storytellers that can recognize like, ⁓ you know, we have

this

guy that's on the fringe of the roster. You know, maybe we wired him out of practice and he really say a whole lot, but man, we went after practice and we filmed him, you know, with his girlfriend and his daughter and man, that was really compelling. yeah, maybe what he did at practice wasn't super interesting, but this shoot that we did afterwards is great and it's going to make the audience fall in love with them. And now you have sort of a character, you have a hard knocks character that you can root for. I think, you know, a lot of what we can't control, you sort of try to turn a

and your weaknesses into strengths.

Madelyn Cunningham (16:57)
Yeah, it's interesting that you say it's Groundhog Day for these guys, because as an audience, know, and I'm specifically, think as a male audience, it's like, my God, an NFL training day. it's, you know, it's like, it to the audience like that's the, it's, but it's just another day to these guys. so let's get into hard knocks

So how is it decided who you're going to follow? Does it come down to sort of like organization owners? Do they approach you? Do you approach them? How does that decision get made?

Matt Dissinger (17:24)
It's different every year to be perfectly honest with you. I mean there's been years where we have received interest from a team like whether that was the team president or whatever that makes it a lot easier. They have

enacted certain rules at the league level for this show to continue to ensure participation. So there's been times where people have whatever fit those rules and we've, you know, as gently as we can selected them for the show in which those situations and with every hard knocks that's ever happened ever, there's going to be some resistance. It's just an unusual thing to invite cameras into what's normally a private

training camp atmosphere and that always comes down to the directors ability, the crews ability to sort of blend into the background to earn their trust. We always say that around week two of Hard Knocks that we start getting the comments, wow I don't even notice you guys are here like wow this is not at all what I thought it was gonna be it's so much less intrusive and...

The idea of what it's gonna be versus the reality is always kind of a huge thing for us to get through with Hard Knocks. But yeah, in terms of how teams become involved, it's always a different story. I'm not even sure what the story was with the Bills. I believe there was some interest from the organization. I know that they have a new stadium coming, which that kind of a thing often plays into it. If there's some new thing that's important to the organization to promote that helps, we can help.

promote that. Obviously HBO is a great platform. There's a lot of non-traditional eyeballs that will go and watch Hard Knocks versus the traditional games. So there's a lot of things that play and it's always sort of a different deal each offseason how that team ends up being featured.

Madelyn Cunningham (19:13)
Yeah, well, then I got an MVP and Josh Allen and no. Okay, interesting. So you were talking about how, I mean, you obviously know the players when you're going in, once the team is locked down. And so you maybe have an idea of like, who's good on camera, who's charismatic, like who would be interesting to follow, but you really are having to kind of think on the fly and select.

Matt Dissinger (19:16)
Right.

Madelyn Cunningham (19:36)
these characters that sort of stick out to you, is that just a gut instinct you've sort of honed in on you and your team being able to pick out, you know, these people that are gonna resonate with the audiences?

Matt Dissinger (19:47)
yeah, mean Hard Knocks is such a, it's like its own ecosystem. And we do, look, we do as much preparation, there's packets of...

profiles on everybody on the roster, you're Googling, trying to find videos of these guys, whether they're good on camera or not. mean, we put in a lot of work to try and at least get some predictions about what's going to work. But really, it's, I mean, it's absolutely impossible. Like you just have to go, you have to be embedded there. You have to be observant. Like one of the things that I would preach early on was like, Hey everybody, like we might be focusing on this character. He's wearing a wire today, but I need you to keep your antenna, keep your eyes on you.

open.

You never know and inevitably every single year new characters emerge that you did not have in your radar whatsoever and they become feature characters because there's only so much research you can do. can only tell you so much but when you're there in the environment witnessing it day in and day out, talking to people, witnessing interactions, inevitably these stories rise up and you know I think we're good enough directors that we recognize that.

and relay it back to our editorial team here in New Jersey. And it's always been, I think, the secret sauce with Hard Knocks is finding those stories that were unpredictable.

Madelyn Cunningham (21:04)
Yeah.

Do you have a favorite? Like, do you have a favorite sort of example of someone who was totally not on your radar that emerged as a feature character?

Matt Dissinger (21:15)
We had Charles James in Houston, which is my first year directing. I don't remember how much he was on our radar going into it. It's possible he was on it. But I know that we had a scene on the first day where they arrived and were moving into their dorms. And he kind of popped in that moment. We're like, this guy's interesting. And we ended up following him. And he just became still to this day my favorite long shot character. I mean, there was a there was a

a

game where they tried him at running back, even though his position was defensive back, and he broke this huge touchdown run. And for a hard knocks moment, you can't ask for much better than that. It's almost like Hollywood scripted, which it's rare for it to happen. But we earned his trust. We earned the trust of the team. And I feel like we told a really just complete story with him. And he was really funny. And I would imagine most of the audience was rooting for him.

Madelyn Cunningham (21:56)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Dissinger (22:09)
So that's my favorite sort of long shot character that we unearthed in the field.

Madelyn Cunningham (22:14)
I

love that. You said that you get a lot of comments that they don't even notice that you're there. And I'm sure that's probably because when a lot of people perceive and think of like reality TV and doc you follow, does, it feels, I don't know, very like Kardashians and intrusive or whatever you want to call it. But what are some things you and your team do to really try and like be more fly on the wall, earn the trust of these guys? Like what are some practices and just like things that you enact on your set to make sure that

you're laying low and trying to get like the most, you know, authentic and genuine interactions and things possible.

Matt Dissinger (22:51)
We just, really respect the boundaries, especially when you're on the practice field. I think there is, like I said, if you've never experienced hard knocks before and you watch the show, which is I think a...

a compliment to us that you're like, my God, they must have had a million cameras, they must have filmed all the time, like there's never a second that the cameras aren't rolling and you know, none of that's true. You we would never get the show made if that was true. And so the expectation going in, I'm sure, versus when we actually show up and we have like five crews, those crews know where to be in the practice field, they know how to sort of blend in, to not get in the way. I mean, these are the same people, these crews are the same people that are on NFL sidelines and have been on NFL.

sidelines for decades. They know when the offense is doing X, Y, and Z, we should be over here and don't stand here. So the field itself, knowing our boundaries there, and then just, I think it's always been really important to sort of set people's expectations when you request to film with them. So if you were doing an off the field shoot with somebody in their home and you say to them, we need 30 minutes and we need, you know, whatever. You playing with your kids by the pool and then we want to talk to you and your wife.

for 10 minutes, meeting those expectations, delivering on what you promised you were gonna do, that goes a long way towards earning trust and again, sort of.

easing those fears of what everyone thought this was going to be like. And I think all those things go a long way. I mean, we also have, you know, robotic cameras that when you initially walk into a room, the first day of training camp, you're like, my God, there's cameras in our meeting room. What's going on? And one of the things that I always did was I would go into the room where the robo cameras were located with the people that were operating the robo cameras. And I would say, Hey everybody, this is Drew. Drew is the one behind the camera.

So it's sort of humanized what would probably be a really suspicious like, my god, they're spying on us all the time. Yeah, to the point where they would come in the room and they would go, hey, Drew, are you recording? And he would make the camera nod or, you know.

Madelyn Cunningham (24:49)
Big Brother.

Matt Dissinger (24:58)
So it just sort of again sort of broke down some of those fears sort of earned the trust Whatever they thought was gonna happen like all these cameras are in there rolling 24-7 They quickly realized that there's an actual human that has to hit a button And he's trying to pay attention to like whatever it is now ten different rooms Simultaneously, he might not be watching you at all. So There's a lot of various ways with hard knocks specifically that I think you earn trust you sort of get everyone to sort

of relax and like I said inevitably they're like wow I don't even notice you guys anymore you've just folded into you know the monotony of training camp. ⁓

Madelyn Cunningham (25:37)
Nice, nice.

And when it comes to outside of the training facility, right, in these guys' homes, in their lives, are they allowing you sort of access on a case-by-case basis? Is it you guys approaching them saying, hey, we want to follow you a bit more, getting ready, making a smoothie in the morning or going out and doing whatever? Is it really just case-by-case that you're asking for access for these kind of additional scenes and then getting in the environment and sort of

giving a little bit of a setup to allow that to play out.

Matt Dissinger (26:10)
Yeah, it's sort of a mix of kind of obvious ones like, ⁓ can we film you packing your bags before you leave for camp? So that's sort of like one type of way that we approach it. then at that stage, obviously, they don't know us very well. So it's kind of an introductory thing with us. A lot of times, there's something that we heard on someone's wire.

Madelyn Cunningham (26:21)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Dissinger (26:33)
So-and-so was talking about horseback riding at practice with his teammate. Maybe we can ask him to go horseback riding for a shoot. You know what I mean? It's things that are sort of born out of, know, things we've heard or learned.

Um, and then there's just, you know, with superstars, I'm sure this season with Josh Allen, they're going to, you know, try to film with him off the field to get to know him a little bit more as a person. And that just kind of, I'm sure is a conversation that starts with, Hey, we'd love to feature you more. You're the star of the team. What's going on? What do you, do you have the offensive lineman over for a dinner that we can maybe film, you know, the first 20 minutes of, um, it kind of just comes in so many different ways and it's born out

different things, either sort of tropes that you've always sort of done or things that you've just learned that you're trying to capture. And it's always a huge collaborative effort from the directors back to the producers and editors here Films. That'll be quite the achievement, I think, if they pull that on.

Madelyn Cunningham (27:30)
Yeah, I know. I wonder if we'll see any of Hayley, because he's a newlywed. I'm sure that'll be jumping some hoops there. I agree.

I agree. So you mentioned, you know, you're shooting like 300 minutes to every one. Like it's just over coverage. But you're also turning this around in like near real time. How are you doing that? I mean, what is it like? How are you sort of

what does the workflow look like? Obviously you guys have had a long, long time to perfect it, but what does that workflow look like for the team?

Matt Dissinger (28:04)
It's man, it is a machine and now in this stage of my career I'm on the other side of it but for 10 years you'd have obviously the crew in the field they would capture and it's evolved. there are...

Every NFL stadium is able to feed footage back. I don't know exactly how they're doing it. I know that the Bills practice at a college, so I'm sure they figured out some way to feed footage back. But that stuff's coming in every single day. There's a whole team of people that are cataloging it, logging it for the editors. There's notes that start with the directors in the field. They send notes back. The people who log the footage make their notes as well. And then there's a team of editors led by show heads, two show heads.

that will meet every single day and they will go over those notes, they will make assignments and then producers will then sit, go through the footage and start editing. And it's just, I mean, that's just the kind of getting things to, like getting the show together point. And then there's a whole team of people on the post-production side. There's mixers, there's final editors, there's color correction, there's, you know, music composition. We have a composer full-time on staff.

films that usually composes some new Hard Knocks themes each year. I mean, it's such an enormous machine and we've been doing it so long that I'm sure sometimes take it for granted, but it is pretty incredible, I think, still to this day that it gets turned around as quickly as it does. mean, we have things that happened the day before that we got to get onto the show in the past and we pulled that off, which is just, I mean, it's incredible. It's like the opposite of what we do with quarterback.

obviously

a huge runway to get the show that most of which happened in the fall and airs in July, whereas Hard Knocks, it happened on Monday, you gotta get it by Tuesday. You know what mean? It's incredible. ⁓

Madelyn Cunningham (29:55)
It's a wild

feat. No, it really is incredible. I mean, and it just seems like such a monster. On the editorial side, how much does the team, the organization, the individuals themselves, do they get to go, hey,

don't show that or can we cut that or is, you how much sort of oversight but the actual org is there when it comes to that final episode.

Matt Dissinger (30:19)
Yeah, I mean, we're really, mean, the last thing on earth we want to do is like, we come and do this documentary series with you and then something airs that hurts you creatively or sorry, competitively. So a lot of what we're doing is like, all right, we don't, you don't want us to say this play. whoops. Okay. On this shot we have on this white board, we have some sensitive stuff. So a lot of what they're screening for is in that vein. And that's, we, that's obviously very important to us. No one really wants that. I think there's this perception that

Like, you know, we're censoring all this crazy stuff with hard knocks and that's just I mean, it's just not the case There's just so many things that you know half of training camp is installing Plays, I mean if you played that for a general audience that we brought out of their minds. So I think There is oversight, you know from the team. I think that's you know part of Being NFL films and earning the trust of the teams, but it's really couched as like hey, let's make sure we're not giving away any competitive advantage

with the show and that everyone's happy with what ends up airing. know, audiences really don't. I mean, you really want to know how they installed 42 trap, you know what I mean?

Madelyn Cunningham (31:24)
Yeah, no X's and O's. Okay.

Right. Yeah, exactly.

Like I said, this show has really provided a level of insight into teams and players and dynamics and relationships that nothing else really has before. Do you ever feel the weight of the responsibility of sort of shaping how the public sees players and sees these teams? And because that, it shapes the fandom, it could shape a career trajectory. How do you sort of handle that responsibility?

responsibility.

Matt Dissinger (31:59)
I mean, think it's, yeah, it's extremely important. I can't think of a good example off the top of my head, but I'm sure there's things that have aired in hard knocks that have sort of followed someone, you know, forever. And we take that stuff, you know, very seriously. You know, we...

It's funny because when we first get to a camp, you know, we might have people be like, ⁓ HBO is here. And I'm always, my thing was always like, no, we're NFL films. Like, no, just not trying to disrespect HBO by any means, but we take it very seriously that, you know, we're promoting the game. We're promoting the players. No one's going to wear wires for NFL films if we're not doing right by them. I mean, it's just sort of how our company has started and has always been. And now we obviously try to

find the most entertaining aspects of the things that we do. But we also are very cognizant, like, you know, these people are participating with us, they're wearing our wires, they're letting us into their homes. You know, we're very conscious of how we present them. And not to say that we don't show guys messing up or in negative lights at times, but the goal in those situations always, always, always is hoping for a redemption arc.

Like no one wants to just see somebody get screamed at on practice in a training camp and that's it. You wanna see that guy get screamed at, learn from that moment and then score the game winning touchdown in the preseason game. Like that's the ultimate goal. So we do, we do, we take that very seriously. We know what responsibility we have and it's always an ongoing discussion inside NFL films.

Madelyn Cunningham (33:33)
love it. It's such a good show. as someone who, you know, I don't follow football really closely, I love watching. Well, so quarterback is a different sort of approach, even though you're still looking at

the personal lives of this like really protected position in the sport. You've got a little more time maybe planned in advance and obviously you have a lot more time in post. Season two is out. Season one we had Mahomes and we had Mahomes, Cousins and oh who was the third? I started with an M, Mariotta. And now we're back with Joe Burroughs, Jared Goff and Kirk Cousins again.

Matt Dissinger (34:06)
Marriota. Marriota, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Madelyn Cunningham (34:16)
Okay, what do you feel like each of these guys is bringing to this season of quarterback?

Matt Dissinger (34:25)
Yeah, I mean, we were really excited with the roster, I mean with both seasons, with this year, mean, Joe Burrow is one of, unarguably one of the top five quarterbacks in the league. You can put him anywhere in that ranking, I'm sure.

And he is sort of a mysterious guy, know, he doesn't do a ton of media. He's not in commercials or anything like that. So that was, you know, really exciting opportunity for us to get to know this guy, to shine some light on him. mean, everyone sort of knows he shows up to games wearing, you know, these kind of crazy outfits or however you want to put it. He's been in like Paris Fashion Week. I mean, he's just like a super interesting dude. So the opportunity to

Madelyn Cunningham (34:41)
Mm-hmm.

Love the fashion, love the fits.

Matt Dissinger (35:07)
sort of follow him, learn.

what's going on inside his head was really exciting for us. Jared, I mean, I don't know if we've documented a single human being in NFL films more than Jared Goff. I mean, he was on our Hey Rookie show. He's been a part of three different hard knocks. He did one of our in season shows and then he quarterback. I mean, he's just been so great to us throughout the years. And now he's at a point of his career where he's leading the most exciting offense in the league. I mean, the Detroit Lions are just a terrific story. I mean, they were down in the dumps.

I mean you see it in sort of the first episode Jared gets traded his feelings are hurt and he's welcomed into Detroit I mean, it's just a great story and we had such a great time Documenting what I mean they had so many fun moments throughout the season there were like the most explosive offense in the league And he was the head of it. And so that was a really cool opportunity and then with Kirk

I mean, Kirk was just terrific in season one. I'm sure he surprised everybody. mean, I don't think anyone expected him to sort of be like the surprise hit of the first series of the first season. And now he's in a totally different situation. We thought that was really interesting. Like here he is. He's he's, you know, 38 years old, signed this huge contract with a different team like that presents different kinds of challenges. And with this show, the goal is always to like, let's explore the hardest position in

sports. What does it mean to be that person? What goes into that? What pressures do you face? Like how do you deal with your home life? How do you deal with the team? Like now Kirk's this new face of this franchise. How does how's that going to go? And so there's always these interesting storylines. They're different. They compare and contrast. You know, one of my favorite things about this show is that we can sort of give these guys a topic that they can all talk about and relate to. And then later in the episode,

you'll

see just how different they are. I I don't think there's anyone quite like Joe Burrow in the league. you know, having him with his stylist picking things out was an awesome shoot. Probably not something that I'm sure Kirk and Jared do. But then, like, know, seeing Kirk talk about moving his family and, the challenges that that, you know, there's just, it's so rich with storylines.

Madelyn Cunningham (37:13)
Right.

Matt Dissinger (37:22)
There's just so many opportunities to do cool things. And it's this marquee position where everyone's curious, like what are these guys really like? What does it take to do this? And so it's been really exciting, especially with season one kind of being this blank slate of a show we've never done before. We had lots of opportunities to try some stuff, which was really exciting and cool. And I was really proud of that and really proud of this season as well.

Madelyn Cunningham (37:47)
No, it's really fantastic. Obviously, you've been doing hard knocks. What made you guys want to zero in? I know quarterback, again, the most protected, sort of analyzed position. But what was the genesis of the series specifically? And had it been in the works for a while and you'd been trying to get it off the ground, or it really took off when you had some good quarterbacks who were willing to like literally play ball?

Matt Dissinger (38:14)
Yeah, Peyton Manning was a huge reason that the show got made. I know he specifically, personally spoke to Patrick. I was there the day he talked to him and got him to agree to participate in the show. I know it's something, Peyton's company, Omaha, Omaha Productions, they've been an awesome partner for us in NFL films. And so I know that he was partly behind that. mean,

Madelyn Cunningham (38:17)
Mm, okay.

Omaha.

Matt Dissinger (38:39)
access driven follow docs are huge in our industry and I don't know that it gets much better than doing a follow doc about you know high profile NFL quarterbacks. It sort of was a no-brainer once you know that opportunity came up. The fact that we had a partner like Netflix which was the first show that we've ever done with Netflix and with sort of the marching orders of the NFL to sort of expand globally. I mean there's no better streaming service than Netflix which is all over the world.

to try to get people more interested in the game and through these players. So yeah, definitely started as sort of a Peyton Manning passion project that we obviously partnered with and took it from there.

Madelyn Cunningham (39:19)
I love that. I think whether you again, are a fan of the sport or not watching people be experts at their craft is so compelling, no matter what it is. You said a lot of these guys are different, you know, their lives are different. but

from the outside looking in, does seem like quarterbacks tend to have this, like they all to me seem so cerebral. Like just really, there's this precision and I'm not talking about on the field, but there's this seriousness and this attitude that they tend to all have. even though they're all very different, do you see a lot of common threads with these guys?

Matt Dissinger (39:50)
yeah.

I mean, 100%. I mean, the amount of information they're processing. One of the things that I was pretty proud of this year is we did this little segment featuring all three guys that was all about what happens between the clap of the huddle when they break the huddle to the snap of the ball. Internally, and actually the name of the episode is called Clap the Snap. And it's about this 25 seconds and everything they're doing. And it was just really fascinating, like listening to everything that they're

in that limited amount of time. And to your point, like, they all have to be that cerebral. That's sort of a commonality that goes across everybody. I'm quite sure every quarterback in the league is reading safeties and thinking about where pressure's coming from and all this kind of stuff. And then it's just, it's interesting, like, Patrick, I was with Patrick season one, Patrick Mahomes.

And he was so fascinating to me in just his unflinching confidence. Like it never mattered ever what the score of the game was. I don't think he ever thought that he was gonna lose a game ever.

And not to say that other guys are not confident, but the level of confidence from him was crazy. And I'm sure if we were to do a follow doc on someone like Michael Jordan, I'm sure you'd probably see similar traits. But it was just one of those things to me that I was like, well, this is what sets him apart. I mean, these guys are all competitive, but it was sort of uniquely just, you know, someone like Kirk, for instance,

awesome quarterback, extremely successful, but I think there's a little bit more...

self-doubt or at least self-criticism that Kirk is kind of doing throughout the game. Whereas I don't think Patrick ever sort of let those thoughts into his mind. Like there was never doubts. There's never like, maybe I should have done this differently. He's always just thinking about the next play and how he's going to win the game. And it was just, I don't know, it might sound generic, but it was remarkable to me that I don't think he ever thought he was going to lose a game. Yeah, couldn't we all, right?

Madelyn Cunningham (41:54)
I need a dose of that. I love that. Yeah,

I mean, you know, you're you're meeting these guys at the peak of their career, but they had college careers before this. They played in high school and when they were younger. Is there anything common that you see when it comes to their upbringing? Like, is it like I guess the question I'm trying to get to is sort of a nature versus nurture, like even Patrick's. Mindset is that.

an innate thing? Has he had that confidence since he was young or is that something that had to be learned? What are your thoughts when it comes to just that level of talent?

Matt Dissinger (42:27)
I think there is a lot of commonality and sort of nature. think there's certain guys that sort of have always had, you know, that gene or whatever you want to say. I'm sure they were dominating Pee-wee football. mean, Patrick was unique because his father was a professional athlete. So I'm sure that was a little bit of a different trajectory. But you do, you see, I don't think everyone's coming from the same background with quarter.

You know, you've seen certain guys. I mean Aaron Rodgers is kind of a fascinating story I mean he didn't get recruited by anybody. He had to go to a junior college I mean, I think Josh Allen was similar. I think he had to go to a junior college before he got to

I should know this, but anyway, there's, you know, Patrick obviously, professional athlete as a father. I'm pretty sure he was quite well recruited. And meanwhile, you have some of the greatest quarterbacks that have ever lived that had to go to a junior college before anyone would even offer them a scholarship. So while I'm sure that they have very similar mental makeups in order to play that position, their journeys to superstardom have been very different.

Madelyn Cunningham (43:21)
Mm-hmm, right.

Yeah, it's so, like I said, it's just when people are the best of the best at what they do, I just, there's something so incredibly amazing and human about it that I think everyone can appreciate, like that level of achievement. What's the most shocking moment or surprising moment that you experienced this season?

Matt Dissinger (43:54)
I'd say, I gotta say I was pretty shocked when ⁓ Kirk got benched. Did not see that coming. I I know that when a team drafts a quarterback in the first round, there's always sort of that ⁓ possibility that's hanging over their heads. And I think Kirk was playing through an injury which sort of impacted his performance.

That surprised me. I mean, I think you can say it was justified in what the Falcons wanted to do, but obviously not something I think we anticipated when we started the season. And Kirk was just so tremendously generous with us when that happened. I think there's, I would say the majority of guys, if we were following them would...

need some space and Kirk was like you guys can come the next day you can film my first practice I'll wear a wire on the backup I mean that stuff

Obviously I didn't want that to happen to Kirk. I mean, it's just incredibly compelling to see how he's dealing with it and how he's processing it. We interviewed his wife immediately afterwards. Like that week, it was so fresh on everyone's mind. mean, as a documentary filmmaker, I mean, I don't know that it gets better than being present and documenting such raw emotion as it's happening. So that was very sort of shocking and surprising to me.

Ultimately just some really great filmmaking by our director and editors after the fact. mean, it's just so compelling to just watch people's real time reaction and emotions to something that's so huge.

Madelyn Cunningham (45:30)
Yeah, 100%. Well, and see how people pick themselves up and bounce back. whether it's a bad day or a really bad day when you're on that type of platform, I think that transcends everything. I am curious. You mentioned the draft, and it got me thinking about this sort of new class of athletes coming through in the NIL era.

Are you seeing kind of a huge shift with this new class of athletes who are coming in with, obviously, they've gotten paid, they've got brand deals, they maybe transferred to a lot of different teams, and just kind of have unlocked, a new level a bit earlier in their career than their predecessors? What are you observing kind of about what's happening right now?

Matt Dissinger (46:11)
think along these lines, what is interesting to me, which is a little bit different than what you're talking about, think, is how available...

making documentaries has become for people. mean, you know, they're making entire movies on iPhones now. So a lot of these guys, whereas, you know, 10, 20 years ago, if we were to say, hey, we want to feature you in quarterback, I'm sure it would have been really novel and different and unique. Whereas in this day and age, a lot of these guys are sort of going on their own and making, you know, whatever you want to say, content or little follow docs. mean, the opportunities have just increased exponentially.

and obviously the internet being what it is, you could make a series and drop it on a website, whereas 20 years ago that wasn't a thing. So I think that while I'm sure NIL's really...

made a huge impact in college football. I'm just not a huge college football fan. I do think though that sort of the superstars have always been the superstars, if that makes any sense. Like I think Peyton Manning, while he didn't have NIL opportunities, was always the top dog, always the top recruit, always getting the opportunities. And so I would imagine that, you know, he experienced a lot of similar things to Cam Ward, even though it wasn't like, you know, getting paid in college.

But I think, I don't know how much different that sort of affects these sort of upper echelon dudes that even going back, I'm sure 20, 30 years, whoever the most sought after guys were in the college game are still the most sought after guys and they're still getting the opportunities. And I just think that for us and for this media background, the idea that everyone has a camera on them at all times is so much different than what we used to do at NFL phones.

Madelyn Cunningham (48:00)
Totally, yeah, 100%. ⁓ Okay, I'm gonna ask you a couple of final questions. Is there any football story you're dying to tell, like a myth or a legend, something from the past, an individual's biopic? I don't know, is there anything that you're just like, ugh, I would love to tell that story?

Matt Dissinger (48:17)
think if I had a passion project, I've probably pitched it a million times at this point in my career. It's funny because so much of what I do is in this follow doc space. those things, what hasn't happened yet is sort of the most interesting thing to me.

Madelyn Cunningham (48:21)
Mm.

you

Matt Dissinger (48:33)
I sort of become more attracted to this kind of documentary filmmaking versus, say, doing a big feature on a story from, whatever, 30 years ago, that I more identify with relatability, and I think both quarterback and hard knocks offer that up, as opposed to maybe the, you know.

older stories that are going to be more finely crafted, which I appreciate those as well, but just in terms of my own personal tastes, I sort of love like, let's go follow Joe Burrow in the 2024 season, see what happens. So that's exciting to me. And that's sort of more, I guess, along my filmmaking talents and tastes.

Madelyn Cunningham (49:13)
So

what's unfolding versus more of a hindsight point of view? So you enjoy the chaos then. ⁓

Matt Dissinger (49:18)
I think so. Yeah, I mean,

it's funny because everyone justifiably so points to...

Last Dance and what was obviously great is that you had the modern interviews with all those guys that are able to be really candid because it happened so long ago. But part of it was this follow doc element that they captured decades ago that never saw the light of day. So while that's a documentary that focuses on something from the past, there was still this element of like

Madelyn Cunningham (49:42)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Dissinger (49:49)
this follow doc that no one ever saw with one of the greatest teams of all time, which I loved. I I love so many things about Last Dance, but I thought that was incredibly interesting as well.

Madelyn Cunningham (49:59)
It had an energy to it that is hard to capture with archival, I think. ⁓ And I agree with you. was, It's one of those that I feel like everyone, it's the last dance for X, like when you're pitching, you know what I mean? Do you have a favorite season of Hard Knocks?

Matt Dissinger (50:03)
Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, it would probably be the Houston one. That was my first one as director and we won best series at the Emmys for that and I got to accept that award on stage, which was...

Obviously a night that I'll never forget being as it was my first season. But I mean that to me and I'm sure there's plenty of people who would want to argue with me, but I mean, we just sort of had it all. I feel like, you know, we had JJ watt at the height of his powers. I mean, at the time he was the best player, best defensive player in the league. I thought Bill O'Brien was a great head coach. We had Vince Wolf work doing crazy stuff, like wearing nothing but overalls to a practice field. We had great long shot characters. I thought we did a really good job of, of developing.

and getting the audience to care about these guys on the fringes of the roster. I mean, that season to me had it all, and maybe I'm biased because it was my first year as director, but that'll always sort of be my favorite project that I've done.

Madelyn Cunningham (51:06)
Do you, what's your, mean, who's your team? Who are you rooting for?

Matt Dissinger (51:10)
I am a Miami Dolphins fan, I will say, unfortunately. It's kind of, I guess, I don't know if it's irony or just sad that ever since I've been working here, they have not won a playoff game. I think they had the longest drought in the entire NFL. So I got my internship in 2003 and their last win was in 2001. So, you know, when you're a filmmaker for the NFL and your favorite team isn't very good, it's frustrating.

Madelyn Cunningham (51:35)
It's a different kind

of pain.

Matt Dissinger (51:37)
Yeah,

and just can't quit them, you know what I mean? You just can't, like, you know, as much as you want to sometimes be like, all right, I'm done with them. It's like, you just can't. Like, you've been following them for like 30 years now. It's, you're hooked. hope that happens. Yeah, thanks.

Madelyn Cunningham (51:48)
No, and there's got to, you know, we love a comeback. ⁓ Just the comeback is always so good. my thoughts and prayers to you.

Is there a scripted show or movie that you feel like captures football the best?

Matt Dissinger (52:01)
Man, that's interesting. I don't know, I don't really have a favorite football movie. I love the movie Boldurum, which is about baseball. And I always just felt like there was this, I mean, I know it's Hollywood and I know it's embellished, but there was something about the baseball scenes that always sort of felt like we were getting inside, like pulling back the curtain on baseball that I always loved about that. And I don't know.

I mean, baseball's such a different sport than football. So I don't know that anyone's ever sort of captured that same sort of magic, but I always sort of just loved Bull Durham as a sports movie because, you know, while you have sort of the romance thing on the top level, they definitely care about sort of the inside baseball scenes that made you feel like you were, you know, witnessing stuff as it really happens, which I always loved.

Madelyn Cunningham (52:52)
Who is on your Mount Rushmore of professional athletes? They can be past, present, any sport. Who's up there?

Matt Dissinger (53:00)
yeah, I mean, I think it's going to be a long time until I see someone that is as good as Patrick Mahomes. So kind of one of the reasons I volunteered, I very much wanted to direct him was because I just thought he was like a generational talent. So I would have to put him up there. It's funny because I'm in such a head space of quarterbacks. I'm just thinking like Tron Brady, Peyton Manning, like Michael Vick, like just guys that you sort of.

Madelyn Cunningham (53:21)
You

Mm-hmm.

Matt Dissinger (53:28)
imprint on your brain and whenever someone asks you a question like that you start thinking of them. But I just remember even with before sort of, it's funny now, Patrick's arc of where he was sort of the guy everyone wanted to root for because he was young and cool and different and now like they've won so much that everyone like, you know, is dumping on the chiefs and hooking them in.

Madelyn Cunningham (53:47)
It's so funny how people,

like how people switch up. And I do get it because I, love an underdog and we, when people get real confident, we don't necessarily love it. Like there's, it's interesting to see sort of the switch up when it comes to specific athletes and teams. Yeah.

Matt Dissinger (54:04)
No.

It really is. And it's so

funny because it wasn't that long ago where the Chiefs were the underdogs. And it was like, so great. So happy for Andy Reed. And I love Andy Reed. But yeah, it's now there. And they have acknowledged this. Like they realize that they're now the, what people used to think about the Patriots is just like, they just want them to lose and they're the bad guys. And so it's fascinating to see that happen. But yeah, Patrick just plays the game with such that, I mean, it's kind of cliche, but like that childlike enthusiasm and just the stuff he does.

is probably the stuff that we pretended we would do when we were in our backyards being like, it's fourth down and I can eat 20 yards and you know, he's out there actually making those fantasies into reality and it just feels impossible. yeah, that would, I would say, yeah, Peyton, Tom Brady, Mahomes, and I'll put Vic on there just because he's so unique in my brain.

Madelyn Cunningham (54:56)
Yeah, that childlike quality you're talking about, and that confidence that you have as a child before the world kind self doubt. I think that's all something we, like I said, we could use a dose of in all of our daily lives and in our careers. And thank you so much for sharing those

can watch all of quarterback on Netflix season two right now. And of course, Hard Knocks training camp with the Buffalo Bills is unfolding on HBO as we speak. And now you can watch it and know just how much the team is working on to get it out. So thank you so much, Matt. It was really awesome to talk to you. Thanks.

Matt Dissinger (55:28)
Thank you. Great. Good to talk to you as well.

Madelyn Cunningham (55:39)
Okay, even as someone who only dabbles in fantasy football and turns on games solely for vibes, I really enjoyed that conversation with Matt. I hope you did too. Again, so, so happy to be back. Don't forget to like, subscribe, follow, comment, all the things. We have an incredible lineup of guests this fall and winter, and I just cannot wait for you guys to hear from these really talented people. So, so happy to be back.

Thank you for listening. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Unscripted Files Pod, and I'll see you next Friday.

Madelyn Cunningham (56:11)
The Unscripted Files is brought to you by Good Gravity Entertainment. Thank you to producer Bonnie Adams, Original Music by composer William Wright, Artwork by Lisa Schweikart, and Photography by Reid Schick.