Tracy Sinclair (00:00) the main things I look I want them to be demanding but yet respectful, I want them to be high maintenance and bougie We want people who know what they want you know have their meal sent back if it's not cooked right, you know who are gonna ask for crazy Things that's gonna makes the crew run around because the whole show is about the crew taking care of them So the more demanding and you know crazy things that the guests ask for the better the show is gonna be Madelyn Cunningham (00:28) Hey, welcome to The Unscripted Files. My name is Madelyn Cunningham. I'm a development producer in the unscripted industry, bringing you candid conversations with the minds behind your favorite form of entertainment. when you look at every housewife, every chef rose, every Ariatmatics, every Scandival. someone discovered your favorite reality star and they don't get enough love. I have a casting director who is responsible for booking all of the guests, the charter guests on the Below Deck franchise, as well as in the Vanderpump Villa. She is a former professional dancer who was on tour with Wade Robson and Justin Timberlake, who has amazing stories from that life and her job as a casting director on those upstairs, downstairs franchises where her job is to find the right guests to challenge our crew, challenge our cast and still be really, really entertaining. This is such a fun conversation. with Casting Director, Tracy Sinclair. Madelyn Cunningham (01:39) Tracy, welcome to the Unscripted Files. How you doing today? Tracy Sinclair (01:42) Good, thank you for having me. Madelyn Cunningham (01:44) Of course, I'm super excited to chat with you. You have so many amazing credits, the Below Deck franchise, Vanderpump Villa, World of Dance, amazing primetime game shows, Press Your Luck, Password, I mean, the list goes on and on. but you weren't always in casting. So I'd love to hear a little bit of your backstory. You were a professional dancer, went on to be a dance agent, a choreographer. So tell me, give me a little of the Tracy Sinclair backstory before we get into the casting. Tracy Sinclair (02:11) Yes, I mean I've been dancing since I was three. I was like captain of my high school dance team. I got a dance scholarship to Cal State Long Beach. I was on their dance team and then I got my dream job at 18 at Disneyland. I was dancing in, I was in original cast Lion King. I was in original cast Hercules. I did the Christmas parades. I did Mulan. I did special events. an amazing time. I had my first daughter when I was doing Lion King. I was young. I was 20, 21. And I was like, OK, I can't do this anymore. doesn't pay well enough. I'm going to move to L.A. because at that time, my dream was to be in a music video. Like that was like, you know, and I remember I was taking a dance class with some lady in L.A. and she was like, so what do you want to be? was like, I want to be in a music video. She's like, you need to want more. Like that's not a high goal. And I was like, OK. Madelyn Cunningham (02:54) Of course. Tracy Sinclair (03:04) Okay, because one of my teachers at Long Beach State was in Michael Jackson's Thriller and I watched that video like over and over. So yeah, so then I started working actually at a talent agency. Madelyn Cunningham (03:12) iconic. Tracy Sinclair (03:16) And one of the top choreographers, Wade Robson, was one of their clients. And I stood in line every weekend and took his class. And I actually became friends with him and his mom. And then they asked me to leave the agency and come be Wade's assistant. I was like, OK, actually, asked me to go to Neverland Ranch. mean, this was obviously before all the Michael Jackson stuff came out. And my boss wouldn't let me go. And I was like, when do you get invites to Madelyn Cunningham (03:31) shop. Sure, sure. Tracy Sinclair (03:43) So Wade's mom was like, well just quit and we'll hire you. So I was like, okay. So I quit. I went to Neverland Ranch and then I worked. I kind of was her assistant for a while and then Wade was doing NSYNC and Britney Spears and I started working for him and I was with him for like five years. I like on the tour. When I look at my 20s, I was like backstage in the prayer circle holding like Justin Timberlake's hand and not even realizing how cool that was. Madelyn Cunningham (04:11) That's some crazy lore. Like that's so amazing. Tracy Sinclair (04:14) I mean, yeah, and it and you know, Brittany was around she yeah, I mean I just my daughter's name was Brittany and she was little and so she's she met Brittany and Justin and Justin would play hide-and-go-seek with her because he was always at Wade's house and so just crazy world and then eventually I Moved on I became a dance agent at Wade's agency. He kind of had lot of stuff going on and kind of had a breakdown and moved away and we still stay in touch actually he lives in Maui so I actually just saw him a couple years ago and so I became a dance agent which I hated because I was still a dancer at heart and I and it was all my friends that I was sending out on calls and and technically I couldn't be a dancer as a single mom you know at that time the best job was to go on tour and I couldn't leave my daughter and so I was sending all my friends out on calls and it just was Madelyn Cunningham (04:48) Mmm. Right. that you wanted. That's Tracy Sinclair (05:07) It was awful. I was, but I, Madelyn Cunningham (05:08) heartbreaking. Tracy Sinclair (05:09) I mean, I did it for a year. I was good at it, but yeah. And then I decided to leave the business. I moved back. My family was in Orange County. I moved back there, stayed there a couple of years, had my other daughter. And then, I don't know, just was, my husband and I weren't, we were separated and I just wasn't, I felt like something was missing and my mom said to me, what do you want to do? I said, I want to be back in LA, I want to be back in the industry. I've been in the industry my entire life. So she's like, do it. So I did, I got my first casting job off Craigslist. I literally was searching Craigslist going, entertainment industry. And this one came up and it said, looking for a casting assistant. And I was like, what's that? And it was like casting reality shows and game shows. And I was like, okay. So I sent my resume in. Well, they ended up being huge fans of Wade. So they saw that I was, cause I, actually had the first dance show, the Wade Robson project on MTV, if you remember that. And I worked on that. Madelyn Cunningham (06:01) right, yes. I know Wade from So You Think You Can Dance. So, yeah. Tracy Sinclair (06:04) Yeah, yeah, so he was the first dance show ever was the Wade Robson project and that's where like we found Twitch You know, we had all the best I know I got to I got to hang out with him on set at world of dance because he was a guest judge but I was on set we filmed in LA so I was on that entire set so Just a cool. Yeah Madelyn Cunningham (06:10) Right? RIP. Right? Tracy Sinclair (06:25) What was my point? I just went out and oh, then I got into casting. So I got it. So they, the owners like loved Wade. So they brought me in. The funny thing is, is one of the owners was a girl that I used, I used to work at Guess in the Beverly Center when I was like 22. And she worked with me there. And so she was one of the owners of the company. So we were, she was like, Tracy, I'm like, oh my God. So they hired me on the spot. I was an assistant. I didn't really know what I was doing, but. Madelyn Cunningham (06:27) really cool world. you... Yep. yeah. Tracy Sinclair (06:51) Yeah, I just I picked it up. Listen, I'm a judgy person. I'm always judging people and I learned how to do it for a living. Like I'm really good. I'm really into energy and I just I just know it. And it's funny because like the my boss for the game shows, he would always have me head up the. Madelyn Cunningham (07:00) The dream. Tracy Sinclair (07:11) the kind of the bullpen is where all the he would hire all new people and like the first day he'd call me and he's like, all right, who tell me who you like? So I'd be like, she's not going to be good hard worker. And I'm usually I'm right. Like I'm just I'm very perspective. Yeah. And I just have a good perspective and I'm very Gemini. I'm like Gemini cancer. So I kind of have both. So yeah. So I just and then I started where I was the them for like a year. Madelyn Cunningham (07:23) Yeah, like you have a great intuition. What's your star sign? Okay, yeah. Just good. Tracy Sinclair (07:41) And then I, they didn't have any other shows. I did the show New York with them. So then I went and did Dating Naked, which was awful. Awful. Madelyn Cunningham (07:50) I saw that in your credits. I was like, wait a second. Did you have to see Genitalia in the casting process? Yeah. Tracy Sinclair (07:54) Yeah, I mean they would, are you allowed to cuss on this? Say bad words? Okay. Yeah, I would open up my emails every morning to dick pics and I was screaming. Yeah, like I'm not asking for these, like I need to interview you first. Like the very end part when we pick the top people, they do have to come in, I'm not there, but they do have to come in naked to like a callback type thing, but I'm like, I don't need to see that. but I was during that job, one of the guys I'd worked with at this other job called me and he's like, Madelyn Cunningham (08:02) Unsolicited. Actually solicited. Bye! Tracy Sinclair (08:24) Hey, my friend's doing this new show below deck. He needs like a casting associate. And I was like, well, what is it? And he's like, it's so easy. You just have to find guests to go on a luxury. I was like, oh, that's easy. So I called my sister and she's like, oh no, it's such a good show. Cause it was only on season two, I think. And she's like, it's amazing. So I was like, all right. So I told him I do it and then found out that, oh, it's not easy. You got to find guests to pay. Like they have to pay $70,000 to charge. Madelyn Cunningham (08:42) Okay. Tracy Sinclair (08:54) the yacht. Madelyn Cunningham (08:56) and be entertaining and fit the bill. Tracy Sinclair (08:58) Right, and yeah, most wealthy people who have the money to do that are very private. They don't want cameras in their face. But the cool thing about the show is the cameras aren't really in the guests' face if you look at it. It's really about the crew. Sometimes you don't even know all the guests' names. You don't know where they live. You don't know what they do for a living. So it's that there's literally like 5 % of people that are perfect for the guests, you know? And... Madelyn Cunningham (09:06) Right, right. Right. But you find them. Yeah. Tracy Sinclair (09:26) Yeah, mean, listen, that I'm really good at researching. find there's so many people in casting that are so lazy and they just sit back and you, but I love to research. like Google, you know, I look up articles. I can find anything. So yeah, my first season I was, I found all the guests on Facebook. Believe it or not. Madelyn Cunningham (09:49) Are you looking at who's buying a table of VIP sections somewhere and getting their tag? How are you doing it? Tracy Sinclair (09:53) No, you know what I was doing? I was going through, I don't even know where I'd start, but I would like go through friends who I knew had money, and then I'd go through their friends, and then I'd go through those people's friends, and I would just look at the pictures, and I can tell. I can see if a, I look, I'm a very, I'm into shoes and purses. So I can tell if you've got nice shoes on, if you're holding, you know, a purse that's like six figures, you know, I would look at the background. I just, could tell, you know, the people who try to look rich usually aren't rich. It's the people who don't try. So I was just, and then I would just reach out and then I would find people who would maybe know of the show or. would be interested because it's really hard when you reach out to people who don't know the show because you're like you want me to pay money to be on a show like it doesn't that's what i get all the time you know and i was like no you're paying actually like 60 less than you would normally chart to charter yacht it's just because there's cameras you know so yeah that's how i got people and then i kind of went through a time where i went after businesses i would go i would look on forbes 30 under 30 i would go after those people i would go after businesses like hey Madelyn Cunningham (10:43) Mm-hmm. Tracy Sinclair (11:04) It's great promotion. You could bring your new tequila brand on. So first season I did that. Second season they called me and they said Madelyn Cunningham (11:09) Smart. Tracy Sinclair (11:14) the producer that you worked for, he's busy. This is when we were still in the office because no one's in offices now. We all work remotely, right? So you can do multiple. But they said he's busy. Do you think you could be the casting producer? And I had only been a casting associate for like under two years. And I was like, don't know. And he's like, well, how many of the groups did you find last season? I said, I found all of them. And he's like, you did? Madelyn Cunningham (11:20) Right. you Tracy Sinclair (11:40) producer do and I said he just interviewed he's like well then you can be the casting producer if you found them all I was like okay so the rest is history 10 years I think I'm on my 29th season I've been there 10 years now I'm the supervising casting director I have my own My team's very small. I have a producer and an editor. That's it. Now the crew casting has a huge team, which I don't get why I don't have a huge team, it's because I'm a workaholic and I do everything myself, so they're like, we don't need to pay more money, but yeah. Madelyn Cunningham (12:04) Sure. Yeah, you're like, hello. Right. Yeah, I mean, what an incredible arc. I and on such an iconic show, I'm so fascinated, you know, about how your research, because I know so much of casting is research. It is like really getting in there. And so how has it evolved? You said early days is like Facebook articles. How has social media and Instagram and TikTok, has it influenced your process at all? Or are you still really back to the OG, like looking at tags of tags, you know? Tracy Sinclair (12:38) No, I don't have to research at all. I get emails daily. Yeah, my email is on Bravo's website. So people go into casting, it'll stay below deck. So I get referrals, people who've gone, every guest that goes on wants to come back. They all... Madelyn Cunningham (12:42) they're coming to you. Love that. What a testament to the show also. Tracy Sinclair (12:58) Right, all, because this is, it's such a different, so the show is very real. It's not scripted, it's not staged. It is, I think it's a genius show because the crew, obviously I feel like the show depends on the crew. The crew's gotta be good, but the guests, we never know. I'm the only one that meets the guests. Like I zoom them and then I decide if I feel like they're gonna be good and then I send them to Bravo for final approval. Madelyn Cunningham (13:20) Right. Tracy Sinclair (13:27) but nobody meets them until they get there. We don't know how they're gonna be. they're, right, I mean I do like a half an hour interview, you know, and I can tell like if they're quiet and boring, no, I don't send them to Bravo. I just, I want people who are gonna have entered, but we never know. It's always like the one quiet person out of the eight that I'm interviewing that's the one that gets drunk and like jumps off the yacht, causes problems, right, like Dolores, you know, she was my favorite, but she barely talked in the interview, like you never know how they're Madelyn Cunningham (13:30) Right, you're not briefing them on anything. jumps off the boat. Dolores. Tracy Sinclair (13:56) going to be and I think that's what I think the long the more the show goes on I feel like the I feel like a lot of the execs and stuff they forget that these people are paying so they come on and they're not cast members they're actually guests so they get treated like guests they can do whatever they want and it's a cool experience so a lot so a lot of guests will send me for else hey Tracy I've got a friend I've got this you know CEO of this company so I get a lot of referrals Madelyn Cunningham (13:57) Right. Tracy Sinclair (14:23) I get a lot of celebs, they're managers, but they don't want to pay. They think, they really love the show, but they don't want to pay. Sometimes I get lot of like, yeah, if I do get celebs, it's normally like a normal group that's like, I'm friends with so and so and I'm bringing them and they pay for them. Madelyn Cunningham (14:32) Right, and you're like, sorry, everyone has to. Mm-hmm. Tracy Sinclair (14:40) But yeah, people just reach out to me. Once in a while, I'll go on Instagram, or if I see on TMZ some rich guys sold his house, I'll reach out once in a while. And I've reached out to this, I feel like Bravo, the longer the show goes, they really want more celebs on. But that's hard, just because they either wanna be paid or they want it comped. Madelyn Cunningham (14:57) Mm-hmm. Well, totally. Right, right. Well, how, I mean, the fact, so they're coming to you and then you're saying you're doing like kind of like a 30 minute interview and then you can decide from there. Do you have any red flags or do you have any sort of like, you said that you have a really good intuition, you know, with just that 30 minutes before you pass them on or don't. Is there any sort of things that you love to see versus, you know, red flags when it comes to whether they're right for the show or not? Tracy Sinclair (15:30) Yeah, so I mean, you know, it's funny when I first started it was like if I could just find full paying I didn't care like they just wanted real guests real people who had money who would charter yachts then as it got it, you know got more and more it was like we don't want fans which was a crazy thing to me because I'm like Madelyn Cunningham (15:36) Right. Tracy Sinclair (15:47) You think I'm just gonna get random people who have no idea what the show is to come on? Like, there's at least one person that's a fan of the show. But it doesn't mean they're poor. Like, they're, you know, they still have money. But I do look at, you know, when we send, my producer sends them like a Zoom. you know, outline how to be set up. And we always say, make sure you look nice. know, the Bravo is looking at these tapes and they want to think, this group would normally charter a yacht, you know? So I immediately will look at what they're, even though I just see waist up, but I can tell. And I see, you know, I look at their background. So I can pretty tell, I'm pretty good telling if they're bullshitters, like if they look like they have money or if they don't have money. I'm pretty good at that. Madelyn Cunningham (16:19) Right. Tracy Sinclair (16:30) for sure, you Madelyn Cunningham (16:30) I feel like tech guys can be tricky though, because they all like drive Toyota Corollas and like... Tracy Sinclair (16:35) They could, yeah, they could. Yeah, well, and listen, I will always interview a group. Sometimes it's not a long interview, but I just sense it. I don't know, I just, if someone is rude to me, I don't. Madelyn Cunningham (16:48) Right. Tracy Sinclair (16:52) I won't even, I've had some people like who are, think they try to be like, they think that's what we want, but like, I don't want mean guests. And God forbid, and I watch the show as a fan of the show, cause I don't know how the guests are. Madelyn Cunningham (16:59) Right. Tracy Sinclair (17:06) Unless there's something big drama that happens all here. So I don't know how the guests are. So I watch it and there's always one group that's so mean and I'm like they were so great in the interview, but you never know how they're going to be, you know, and I don't like the mean people. So if anyone's mean, that's a red flag. Madelyn Cunningham (17:10) Mm-hmm. Right. Tracy Sinclair (17:22) think like that's gonna make me go good TV I don't I don't send them to Bravo Madelyn Cunningham (17:26) Have you seen a lot, there's a lot of people who, know, or maybe in like the service industry or high end industries who will talk about the differences in millionaires and billionaires about like the, you know, where they're like, typically people who are incredibly wealthy are the nicest, most down to earth people ever. And then the people who are kind of... it'll be a stretch for them to get there are like rude, needy, all the things and they're almost like putting on. Is that, you kind of feel that way too? Tracy Sinclair (17:46) trying to be wealthy, right? Right, well, I find the people who aren't born with wealth, but are wealthy now, are so down to earth. And they are like thankful for everything they have. I think the people that are born into it, whether it's inheritance or just family money, they're usually, they don't care. Right, right, right. Yeah, but I do, sorry. Madelyn Cunningham (18:11) Oh, so like a new money, old money kind of difference that you see. Oh, interesting. So when you finally... Go ahead. Tracy Sinclair (18:19) No, I was gonna say I do find the really really wealthy people though are always very nice, but they also Don't want to look bad You know because they've got companies are running and all that so Madelyn Cunningham (18:24) Mm-hmm, yeah. Sure. Right, when you're looking at guests, again, they obviously have to check the box of being able to pay for it, they need to feel, act a certain way, but are you thinking about how they'll interact with the crew specifically and if their personalities will mesh or clash, or is for you, you're just like, if you can charter it and you're not an asshole, let's go. Tracy Sinclair (18:50) Yeah, you know, I don't know who the crew is they keep that very top secret So they they're casting they're casting the same time I am so I only know who the captain is I don't know who the chef is the boss and I don't know if they're bringing anyone back So I that yeah that has nothing to do with it. I the main things I look I want them to be demanding but yet respectful, right? I want them to be high maintenance and bougie We want people who know what they want and who are gonna act like guests and not just get on there and be fanning out we want people who will Madelyn Cunningham (19:02) Nice. Tracy Sinclair (19:20) Asked there, you know have their meal sent back if it's not cooked right, you know who are gonna ask for crazy Things that's gonna makes the crew run around because the whole show is about the crew taking care of them So the more demanding and you know crazy things that the guests ask for the better the show is gonna be if they're just nice and quiet and like We're just happy with it. Everybody get me the crew is gonna slack off and it's gonna be boring. So Madelyn Cunningham (19:42) Right. Well, it ultimately needs to be a challenge in hospitality. if you've ever worked in hospitality, you know that it can be incredibly tough, a lot of demands. And so I like that it's like, ultimately, can the guests respectfully give the crew a run for their money and see if they can really give that five-star experience. Tracy Sinclair (19:46) for sure. Right. Right. Right. yeah, and then also the hard part is too, is like I get all these wealthy people who are very like prim and proper, but we also want people who are gonna get drunk and party, you know? So it's like, so right, so usually that's more the younger age. Madelyn Cunningham (20:12) Yeah, jump off the boat. Mm. Tracy Sinclair (20:19) which then it's hard to find because the younger age doesn't really, know, unless you get, like I had a group of influencers, like all 20s, you know, and they all flaked because those 20 year olds was flake. But they were great. And I was like, they would have been amazing, but they just flaked. I like sent contracts through this, ghosted me. I was like, okay, bye. But. Madelyn Cunningham (20:35) Right. Tracy Sinclair (20:40) It's usually like the 30s to 50s. That's like the core age. That's good. You know, if they're a little bit older than that, sometimes they can get crazy, but you know, normally they're pretty calm. Yeah. Yeah. Madelyn Cunningham (20:51) They kind of keep it, they keep it. Yeah, the digital footprint is forever. So when you say you watch the show back, what is the measure of success for you as a casting director? Is it that it was a entertaining episode? Like when you're watching, what really makes you feel like, like that was successful for you? Tracy Sinclair (21:10) If I, if I, so I'm very like multitasking. Look, have the TV on now while I'm working. if I can watch the show and not go on my phone and not get distracted, then I know it's good. You know, I think the show, I think it is starting to rely a lot more on the guests because I feel like the crew is not. strong you know is the OG you know like Kate and Ben and Captain Lee like I feel like you know it's and I but I think the crew castings hard because I think in the yacht world a lot of people don't want to be on TV so I think they're trying to rely more on these amazing guests, which I keep saying, just don't have them pay and then I can find you crazy guests, you know? But then, right, but then it's gonna be, but I think then it's not gonna be real, because it's gonna be people who aren't used to five star service. So I get. Madelyn Cunningham (21:48) Right, yeah, lower the rate, guys. Tracy Sinclair (21:57) But then it's like a toss-up. You never know if these people are going to be great or not. So yeah, I mean, sometimes I watch and they're boring and they don't show a lot. When they don't show a lot of the guests, that means they're boring. If the show's half the guests and the guests are causing drama or they're just fun or they're demanding, like, that's great. Like, there was a group on, I think it was last season, and like the lady was kind of rude and then she got stung by a jellyfish. like, even though I didn't like that she was rude, it was entertaining. Madelyn Cunningham (22:07) Mm. You're like cosmic karma. Tracy Sinclair (22:26) Right and it was and that and that was a tough group to deal with like my producer and I were like, I mean it doesn't shock me They were they were hard to deal with but I thought that was a good group, but I always look, you know, it's funny I always love the groups that are just so nice and just fun like when they're kind of mean and drama I know like Bravo probably likes that more but I don't like that I'm uncomfortable watching that and then I actually get upset cuz I'm like I never would have put them on if I knew they're gonna be rude, you know Madelyn Cunningham (22:51) Right, yeah, totally. Tracy Sinclair (22:52) But yeah, if they're fun and yeah, that's when I'm like, okay, that's a good group. And sometimes the groups I think are gonna be good aren't. That makes me upset. Madelyn Cunningham (22:59) Yeah, do you have a? Well, I was gonna ask you, you mentioned that your most quiet person of the season ended up jumping off drunk. Have you ever watched back and been like, where was that? On either end of the spectrum and just been kind of shocked at how it turned out based on your experience with them? Tracy Sinclair (23:10) That was probably one of my favorite episodes, Dolores. yeah, because there was one group, there were the girl like came on the yacht and she was like, I don't know, she had been taking medication and she was so drunk and they had to take her out on that clear, that canoe, I don't know, it was years ago and they had to like put her on the water and she was wasted and she was like the most normal comper, you never know, you just don't know with these people, you don't know. I think there was another like realtor group and I think the husband and wife are fighting and the key was so mean to her but like, Madelyn Cunningham (23:41) Yeah. Tracy Sinclair (23:50) the nicest people in the interview. But I think that's why sometimes alcohol causes that, you know? And most people are drinking when I interview them, which is funny because they're so nervous. But I'm like, I'm very cool. Like, I'm not like this hoity-toity casting director. Like, I feel like that's one of my gifts is I can make them feel really like I'm normal. This is calm, you know? But they're all, everyone's drinking. I think they all get nervous. So. Madelyn Cunningham (23:56) Yes, well... Great. Mm-hmm. That's funny. I wonder if they're like, well, let's get into the environment here. Well, and I imagine that, you know, it is some money, whether you have a lot of it or not to have that experience. And so the indulgences like escalate and the expectations thus are like very, very high. So, that's so funny. you, so has it, I mean, I know this is true, like guests getting like kicked off or removed during filming. Like what's the protocol in situations like that? Are you ever aware of that? Tracy Sinclair (24:18) Right, right. Madelyn Cunningham (24:43) just come back to you. Tracy Sinclair (24:44) No, I mean, I think like during the pandemic, so we filmed this during the pandemic, which was crazy. And we had to quarantine guests for like a week on the island where we were filming. And you would have thought that would have been the hardest season, but it was the easiest because people wanted to get away and we would put them in a villa. Like it was great. But like for that, you know, someone got tested. for COVID or no he had a fever I think so they had to take him off right I don't know I don't think anyone's actually been ejected from the yacht that I know of has there besides the one she was she was taken to the hospital I mean, you know, it just depends. There's no like list of things that it's just we go by what happens. I usually will hear about it when it happens or if I have to do something, they'll, you know, they'll text me or email me because I'm never on location. But, you know. I I feel like what's happened more is not the guests get kicked off, is that they can't leave the dock because of the weather. So then you get all the angry guests who've paid for the yacht and are just sitting at the dock. That's happened, I swear that happens once a season. There's always bad weather. But they don't refund their money. Madelyn Cunningham (25:58) Yeah, you're like, sorry. Tracy Sinclair (25:59) I mean, you know, they still feed them. Yeah, they still feed them and try to make it. Yeah. But yeah, as far as I think, because I don't think Dolores got kicked. Did Dolores get kicked off? I don't think she did. know Captain. Yeah, I don't think Captain Lee. And I don't think they've had any, you know, usually if you have drugs, they'll kick you off. But I can't remember anyone getting actually kicked off. But I could be wrong. There's so many. Madelyn Cunningham (26:09) I don't think so. Yes. No, I think they'll just like go back to land and like, you know, kind of be like, okay, this is done. So, that's so crazy. I'm just kidding. I know the myriad of guests and personalities that you must encounter. Tracy Sinclair (26:27) Yeah. Yeah. Madelyn Cunningham (26:34) is so colorful. How do you, what is the biggest differences? Because you do below deck, below deck sailing, below deck Mediterranean. Is there a big difference in how you approach each of those spin-offs? Or does it kind of feel pretty standard? Tracy Sinclair (26:50) Right. get different directions. So for sailing, they really want avid sailors because obviously you see when it sails. You also see it only sails like five minutes, you know, an episode, but they really want people who love sailing because when you get people who don't love sailing, they usually complain. And so I kind of have to go. I do. We did did we did sailing. I think it was in Spain and there was like the big regatta there. So I was going after I did research there and I had my producer. Madelyn Cunningham (26:56) Mm. Tracy Sinclair (27:19) like reaching out to people that were racing or like fans there was like a you know a yacht club that was all the people so I was trying to reach out there but Sailings probably the only one that's really really different Caribbean It was the same down under. So down under has been a little difficult because down under the first two seasons was filmed in Australia. But it is just so hard to film in Australia. You have to get visas for everyone, including the guests. just a lot of money. So like the one that's on right now, they filmed in the Seychelles, which is in Australia. Madelyn Cunningham (27:39) Mm. Tracy Sinclair (27:50) And the one coming up is not in Australia. So I think they're getting away from Australia. when I did season, they didn't have me do season one because they said we only want Australia guests. So they hired this casting director in Australia. They hired me to consult her to help her figure out how to do it. She didn't want to listen to me. She had an ego and did not want to listen. And I was like, this is like no show you've done before. There's no show on the planet that makes people pay. I'm telling you. Madelyn Cunningham (28:13) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Tracy Sinclair (28:20) this is how you have to do it. I know what I'm doing. She did not want to listen to me. So she ended up like I think they had to like I don't know what they did but they brought me back for season two and had me do it and right and I was able to find Australian guests you know I found a couple American but Madelyn Cunningham (28:33) Yeah, you're like, I don't know what happened, but I was back. Tracy Sinclair (28:42) that I did have to research for that one. that one, if it's in specific areas. Every season I also have to find local groups in case there is an emergency or a group backs up. So I have to find people in Greece, Italy. like I do have to, my producer and I reach out for people for that. But yeah, normally, I mean, I'll get direction from Bravo. Madelyn Cunningham (28:44) Yeah. Hmm. Right. Tracy Sinclair (29:01) They'll say we want a real young group or we want a group that's gonna get married. Sometimes they'll give me a little notes. They love international groups. So a lot of times in med they always want me to have at least one group that's international. But yeah, and other than that it's just kinda the same. And I literally, anyone that emails me I'll interview them. Cause I don't know. And it's like fun cause then I wait for them to show up and I'm like, ooh they look good or they look crappy. know? I never know. Yeah, I never, I know I was like, Madelyn Cunningham (29:08) Mm-hmm. Yeah, you're like, what's the over under here? Tracy Sinclair (29:28) Is it, you know, I get a lot of white groups. I love diversity. So when I get ethnic groups, fabulous. I think white people are boring. You know, if I get couple groups, you know, couple groups, I love all girl groups, but sometimes I get too many all girl groups. So I love an all male group. They're rare, but. Madelyn Cunningham (29:37) We are. Mm-hmm. Tracy Sinclair (29:50) All male groups are great. So yeah, so it's fun. It's kind of like I sit and I just wait for the windows to pop up and I'm like, this group looks great, you know? Sometimes they don't look that great, but then I'll interview them and they're so good, you know? So sometimes I have to... Madelyn Cunningham (29:58) Yeah. They just pop, they pop differently. Yeah. Tracy Sinclair (30:05) Right, and sometimes I've had to tell groups like, hey, like this couple, like not TV friendly. So like, you got to switch them out because Bravo want to prove them. And I've said that. I'm very upfront and you know, and I'm nice about it, but I was like, like Bravo, there's no Bravo's looks at looks. There's no way that, you know, this one couple is going to pass. And then sometimes we tell them to dress nice and they, know, people are in tank tops and hats. And I'm like, so. Madelyn Cunningham (30:17) Mm. Yeah. Right. Well, I think it's regardless, if we, like, there's a dress code for any fine dining restaurant, right? So like, if you're coming in for an interview for that restaurant, you would dress a certain way, like same way with you as a casting director. So I think that, I don't know, I am all for that. Like you have to keep up the tone and appearance of the show and like know what the DNA is to make sure people are kind of falling within that. Tracy Sinclair (30:38) Right. Right, right. Right and it's not like we look for models, you know, like we just but and it's and it's not like i'm like, you're ugly I that that's not it. Madelyn Cunningham (31:00) No, but compelling. Tracy Sinclair (31:06) So it's like they want to be this group looks great, you know, so. Madelyn Cunningham (31:09) Right. Well, and it's again, it's a measure of your own choices too. So if you're sending along stuff that you're like, it has to be the whole package, I'm sure. Like you are such a, you're a person who reads energy. So it's, it's the way people look, but it's also just the way they present and like, if they're going to be able to helm an episode alongside the crew. sorry. Is there a favorite? I know you said Dolores is one of your favorites. Is there another favorite group that you've had on any of the franchises? Tracy Sinclair (31:13) Right. Right. For sure. Right. Right. I loved Johnny Damon. was a... Madelyn Cunningham (31:36) Mm. Tracy Sinclair (31:37) baseball player. He like peed Madelyn Cunningham (31:38) Mm-hmm. Tracy Sinclair (31:39) off the side of the yacht. It was amazing. I love his wife. Yeah, I love they've been on twice. His wife Michelle's great. She always sends me people like she's like she'll call me. She's like we're at a golf tournament like all these she like called me once in FaceTime. Me and Joey Fatone was on FaceTime and I was like Joey, I know you. I was on like the set. I was on the set of I actually danced in one of in sinks videos and pop and I and Joey got hurt. Madelyn Cunningham (31:41) wait, I think I saw that, yeah. Nice. You're right. stop. Tracy Sinclair (32:04) in that video shoot, so Wade had to replace him. So I was like, he's like, I I wanna go on Blow Jack, I don't want people to see me. And I was like, okay, but Lance, like, I've been trying to get Lance on, because he wants to go, but he just, he has his kids now. So, yeah, yeah. We've had like a, we've had a new, like a newborn on. We've had, you know, my other favorite guest, we had, Madelyn Cunningham (32:17) Yeah, are kids allowed? No. they are. I didn't realize that. Tracy Sinclair (32:26) God, I can't think of his name. Sorry, hold on. His dad was a singer. What is his last name? This is my old age, kidding me. His dad sang Pretty Woman. Orbison's, the Orbison's, I love them. Asa, she's from Germany and they brought all their kids. They've been on three times. They're huge below deck fans, but also like... Madelyn Cunningham (32:38) Mmm. Okay. Tracy Sinclair (32:48) come from money, live in Malibu. I was trying to get them on a season ago and they were gonna bring the Osbournes, but Jack ended up getting a show. I interviewed Jack, he was great. So it's like, get couples, people like that, and then they always have friends that are mean, some of people I've interviewed has been amazing, but it's just hard to get them on. But they're a great family. They have blow deck shirts and they're just so sweet. And their kids love Captain. Madelyn Cunningham (33:00) What a treat. Yeah. I love that. that's so cool. Tracy Sinclair (33:16) and Sandy and yeah, they're good. So I love families. I love families with kids because it brings a whole other dynamic for the crew. They got to keep the kids busy and the chefs got to make food the kids like, not fancy food. So yeah, I definitely think that's a good dynamic to have. Madelyn Cunningham (33:23) Yeah, catering to kids and like, yeah, makes sense. that's so interesting. Well, let's get into Vanderpump Villa because it has a similar upstairs, sort of downstairs format. was refreshing on it today. I love all things Vanderpump. And so, and it's in the Bravo universe. And so what, I have not tuned into the Valley. Tracy Sinclair (33:37) Yes. Do you like the valley? Do you like the valley too though? you? It's so, it's so good. You gotta watch it. It's good. Madelyn Cunningham (33:52) But I've heard good things. I've been on Southern Charm and Southern Hospitality was like the new franchise I got into but I want to get into the valley. I've obviously seen all the press like with, you know, Brittany and Jackson. Tracy Sinclair (34:00) I, right, Jax. Well, I lived, so I just left California. I moved, I bought a house in Nevada. I'm in like this small farm town, but I love it. I'm like near Lake Tahoe, but I was living in Valley Village and I lived a street away from Jax and he would always, he would be walking his son like always by my house and I always decorate my house like full out. So he'd always be like, my God, your house looks so good. But I always saw Jax and Brittany. So I, yeah, I loved it. Madelyn Cunningham (34:29) Interesting. I hope she's doing well. That's what I'll say. I hope she's doing well. Tracy Sinclair (34:29) I like the valley, it's good. Yeah, me too. So Vanderpump, yeah, so Vanderpump Villa, they came to me, it's the same product, Blow Deck recently was with 51 Wines, it kind of combined with Bunimurray, who does Vanderpump Villa. And I've done, I've worked with. the casting there. And so they they were asking me like, hey, can you know, can you do it? And I was actually doing Below Deck at the same time. And it's you know, it's kind of in casting. don't get why this matters, but they don't like when people do multiple shows. I get when you can't handle multiple things, but like I am a multitasker to the max. like and but they they they did it right. Because since it was the same company, they went to the heads of Blowdeck said, hey, can we have Tracy on this? And so they got approval. So I was able to do both because they knew they needed guests. Madelyn Cunningham (35:05) Right. Tracy Sinclair (35:17) It was a completely different genre, not genre, but like just, it wasn't the same. It wasn't, they didn't really care about money. It was, they really were like, they wanted more younger, 20. They didn't really want over 40, but it was the theme. It was much more scripted, right? Madelyn Cunningham (35:22) Bye. Right? Mm-hmm. Tracy Sinclair (35:38) So was like, they wanted celebrations. So they wanted people having a coming out party, people having an engagement party, a bachelorette party. So we would get specific things of what they wanted. So it wasn't as easy as just finding guests with money. Madelyn Cunningham (35:44) Yeah, getting engaged. Tracy Sinclair (35:53) They just wanted, you know, and then they would want like different ethnicities and all that. So, I mean, of course I have my thousands of people that I had for Blow Deck, which I would go to, but that show I did a lot of, I would do a lot of research. We also, we also, right, and we also had, Madelyn Cunningham (36:03) Mm-hmm. Many more boxes to check. Yeah. Tracy Sinclair (36:11) you know, they could fill out a form application. So we had a lot of people applying. And when you do the second season, like I finished the second, where the second season is supposed to air soon. They're saying the third season, if it does well, is going to start. But the applications, you know, we get more and more people that want to do and they're like, I want to celebrate this and that. The hard part with that is then you you have to interview the first person and then you and then you interview. Now, I'm not a producer on that. Well, I have a producer title, but I they just have me finding the people. So which is fine, because I'm also Madelyn Cunningham (36:15) I saw that, yeah. Love that. Tracy Sinclair (36:41) doing blowdecks so it's hard for me to do you know be the leads on two shows so I just I'm there just handing people for them to interview but but they interview each person separately which is it's just a process yeah Madelyn Cunningham (36:46) Mm-hmm. in the group. Yeah, that's a lot. Yeah, I was... Tracy Sinclair (36:57) And then sometimes like they're like, we don't like this person's not good. You got to replace them, you know? Yeah. Right. Right. You got to replace your sister. She sucks. Right. Right. Yeah. Madelyn Cunningham (37:02) How does that go over in the bachelorette party Tracy? You're like, sorry, girly. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Oh, that's funny. Well, and how, I mean, I was watching it today. Just again, catching up and yeah, it was much more about kind of like story versus wealth, but are they still paying for the experience? Interesting. Okay. So it really does all come down to like, Tracy Sinclair (37:24) No. Take it. Madelyn Cunningham (37:30) the different types of events and celebrations and like catering. Okay. Tracy Sinclair (37:30) Bye. Right, they, I mean obviously they want people who you think would go, but yeah, I think, I wanna say the first season they got paid and the second season they didn't. But I don't remember, but we never, they didn't have to pay. Madelyn Cunningham (37:38) Have taste. Sure. Yeah. Tracy Sinclair (37:48) We covered their travel. It's a totally, and that's why I was like, this is cake, you know? Any show casting is cake. And we had to find people and they just up the price on blow deck like by 10 grand. So it's like, you just keep, it's so hard. know it's, it's tough. Um, but yeah, no, they didn't have to pay. So that makes it a lot easier to find groups, especially 20, 20 and 30 year olds. You know, it's like, Hey, do you want a free trip to Italy? You know, or France, wherever, you know, Madelyn Cunningham (37:54) Right, yeah, comparatively. inflation. Right, yeah. Yeah, so I imagine the approach on Vanderpump Villa is much more much more sort of personality centric, especially if you're interviewing each person. Did you and how do you sort of keep that? know, the Vanderpump is sort of its own brand, its own universe. So did you definitely have that in mind when you were looking at groups and people of like kind of if they could really bring that? Tracy Sinclair (38:26) Yes. For sure. Yeah, because they kind of have to be, I feel like Vannepump, you got to be sassy, you know, got to be, you know, you need confident people. You know, definitely more of a look, you they got to be hot, I feel like. You know, you got to keep, mean, obviously the staff. Madelyn Cunningham (38:41) Totally. Tracy Sinclair (38:53) is they always will do hot but they yeah it's a lot different than blow deck for sure because it's not like we were having families and yeah we wanted hot people we wanted good good personalities they're and they're more like and they're a cast they're more cast right even though they're guests they're not paying for the experience so they are more cast members so they're being told what to do and yeah Madelyn Cunningham (38:58) Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. And so any big surprises there, like for season one where he watched it back and we're like, what in the world? Like, where did that come from? Or because it was a little more planned and formatted, did it not feel as much as a surprise? Yeah. Tracy Sinclair (39:30) Yeah, I I knew what everyone was celebrating. They had to come up with the things they wanted to do. So nothing was shocking. I think that's why I love the Lodex so much, because you never know how they're going to be. I kind of knew how these people were going to be, also because they're kind of being produced a little bit. Madelyn Cunningham (39:45) Mm. Sure. Tracy Sinclair (39:50) And I still, you know, we made sure we didn't get any quiet, boring people on, so. But it was still interesting. I mean, but you watch that show and again, all the dramas with the crew. It's just like blow deck, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Madelyn Cunningham (39:53) Yeah, yeah. Exactly, it's all about those dynamics. How does Lisa's an EP, like how does she influence the process? You know, is she the one kind of from the top down saying, I want this type of couple, I want this type of celebration. You know, is she influencing and shaping that a good bit? Tracy Sinclair (40:17) I know she puts in, but she's so busy. think she gets one of the final stays. She'll send the groups over or the staff, and she will hear, oh, Lisa loved this group. I don't know if was last season. We were trying to find something with a dog, like a dog's birthday party, because she's so into dogs. So she... Madelyn Cunningham (40:37) Of course. Yep. Tracy Sinclair (40:42) We would hear her notes, but basically I think she would just sit and watch edits and let us know who she liked and who she didn't. But as far as I think the other execs came up, I don't think she's that deep into that process, like giving the ideas. I think maybe she would bring up the, you know, we know she's huge LGBTQ, so we'd always want to have a story like that. And then we know she's big into dog rescue. those were just given because we all watch, you know, we all watch what Vanderbilt. Yeah, we know Vanderbilt. Right, right. Madelyn Cunningham (40:47) Sure. Right, because we know. We know all about Vanderpump Dogs. Tracy Sinclair (41:12) Thank Madelyn Cunningham (41:12) I love that. And Stassi, I think I saw that Stassi's gonna be like a VIP guest season two. Is that right? Is that what I saw? Tracy Sinclair (41:19) I don't, you know what, I don't know. I saw that too. This is the thing with casting. They don't tell us anything. I don't know, I don't think she's, I don't know if she's a guest, because she wasn't in any of our casting groups. Or maybe, is she maybe working it? Yeah, I don't, yeah, I don't, I wasn't told. Madelyn Cunningham (41:21) Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Or is she like a VIP? Like is she is she like coming alongside Lisa with the crew like with the staff? Love her. Yeah, I know. Tracy Sinclair (41:39) I love Stacey. I wasn't told anything. I watch all the, for below deck I'm on all the Instagram and Facebook groups, so I always see what they're saying. And they're like, Kate's on the next bulletin. I'm like, is she? I don't know. I don't even know who the crew is. I'm like, that'd be amazing. Madelyn Cunningham (41:47) Yeah. nice. You're like a... Yeah. my gosh. It's well and all those decisions like there's so many cooks in the kitchen when it comes to stuff like that that by the time it gets past you it's like okay whatever. What is Tracy Sinclair (42:04) So many, right. Well, and that's the sad thing in casting. We're kind of at the bottom of the barrel, which is, it's really sad. Madelyn Cunningham (42:12) When you're the most, when in unscripted reality, you are the most important part. You're everything. Tracy Sinclair (42:18) And we're treated like nothing. And it's sad. It's sad. We are. I mean, the show wouldn't be, know. Yeah, I mean, there's the execs who watch it and go, yeah, they're good. I guess that's important. I mean, all roles are important. But yeah, casting is just never treated well. I don't think we ever have been, unfortunately. Madelyn Cunningham (42:26) It wouldn't be what it is. It's so critical and that's why I, again, I don't feel like people in Unscripted get enough credit in specifically casting. It's so critical and crucial to what we do. Every reality television star that you love was discovered by someone like you. And we don't stick to the shows because of the plot. We stick it because we love Shep Rose and we love, know, like it's so, yeah. So tell me this, tell me what your, what are some like common misconceptions if we're gonna talk about Tracy Sinclair (42:51) Right. Right. Right. Madelyn Cunningham (43:05) you know, your day-to-day job, like what are some common misconceptions you feel like people have about casting? Tracy Sinclair (43:10) You know, I feel like people think, I think people think it's easy. I think people think like once you're like, I'm not an employee with Bravo Glodec. Like I am an independent contractor. And while I've been working on that show for 10 years, I'm always down a couple months a year in between, especially because, right, because I used to do four a season. Madelyn Cunningham (43:28) Yep. And wondering if it'll get renewed. Tracy Sinclair (43:35) Like I never know. I get a lot of emails like I want to be on the housewives. I'm like I don't work for Bravo. Like you know I'm independent contractor. I think people think. Madelyn Cunningham (43:40) Right. Yeah, very Feast of Famine. Tracy Sinclair (43:43) Yeah, I was interviewing someone the other day and I was telling them how I moved and I bought a home because like to live in LA is just crazy and I was able to buy a house and she's like, how did you buy a house being a casting director? And I was just like, like, I do think I make minimum wage. Like I make really good money. Like, like she was shocked. I was able to buy a house and I was like, OK. Madelyn Cunningham (44:00) Yeah. Yeah. Well, and is that does that go along with, people's perspective when it comes to casting and it being, again, not considered a pillar of our industry, which is so crazy. Tracy Sinclair (44:14) Right. Right, because it's like better to say, it's more important to be like, I'm a producer on the show than to say I'm the supervising casting director, like, which I think is a very great title, but it doesn't matter. Nobody cares. Right. If you know, you know. Right. Madelyn Cunningham (44:22) Right. Yes. Yeah. Anyone who knows, knows. Like when you're in, think, I think you, if you know, you know. So your day to day, right. So like, what is, what does your day to day look like? Obviously a lot of stalking, a lot of creeping, a lot of emails, but like, what is, what is your day to day sort of day in the life look like for you? Tracy Sinclair (44:34) Yes. Hahaha! So, I usually start off with this, I do a Zoom with my casting producer and then we talk, I kind of give him, we make a guest packet for Below Deck, so that has like the location, the link to the yacht, it has all the dates and the prices, so him and I go over that. I normally don't have location or hotel or yacht this. You know that I I wait a couple weeks. I do have a couple of it now So I'll tell him you know what to do. I have him create that and then we make our grids And then I'll start emailing you know I've got I have a Google Doc that's got Probably over 10,000 emails from all the years I've done the show and I email every season every single person I mean obviously BCC like 50 at a time, but I'll be like hey starting med Let me know if you're interested and so I start I'll start doing that and then I just get you know As soon as people go yeah, I've got a group great when you can you zoom so I try to get I pitch three groups Every month to Bravo so I have to pitch them I Pitch them 15 total and we pick nine now the fallout is really Madelyn Cunningham (45:26) Yep. Yep. Okay. Mm-hmm. Okay. Tracy Sinclair (45:51) big in this job because I get people who, once I send contracts, either don't want to sign them or freak out and go, my god, it's real. They're also dealing with eight people's schedules, work schedules, family. So people, if they're splitting the cost and they're like, we just lost a couple, we can't replace them. So I always have a dropout. You know what's funny? My first pitch, I usually always have never they never get on all three will drop out because they're like so They're so far this likes early. Yeah, it's crazy and they're always great So if I have a great group, I'm like, I don't want to pick you first cuz you'll drop so Yeah, I just kind of start the process. I'm still closing up the last season too. So I'm doing Madelyn Cunningham (46:18) They're early in the process. Mm-hmm. When you're Okay, so in that Bravo pitch, right, you said you edited down to like a two minute kind of sizzle of the groove based on like your zoom together. And then what are you really trying to highlight when you're describing them? you like, what does that pitch kind of look like to to your execs? Tracy Sinclair (46:38) Right. So yeah, mean, used, basically I'll have the, there's a primary guest. I'll have them introduce themselves, kind of tell me what the group is. They always want to know why the group's coming on, you know, because they want to make sure they're not like. Madelyn Cunningham (46:52) Mm. Tracy Sinclair (46:59) fans, but I always tell them don't talk about the show. Half the people are like, I've never seen the show. There's always one fan, but it's fine. So, you know, I'll talk about are we coming on to celebrate a birthday, an anniversary, a proposal, like I have that first, and then I just kind of do the fun, like, you know, if they're cussing, I like to see the group dynamic. So I want to show them loud, you know, they don't want them to be quiet and boring. I always ask them if they have any Madelyn Cunningham (47:05) Sure. Tracy Sinclair (47:22) kind of like a rider, know, in your dressing room, you have your rider of what you want, like the red M &Ms, all that. So I'm like, what's your rider for this? So then I will put those, I'll have, yeah, you know, 3000 counts, you know, sheets, you know, like, just kind of, so I get that to show. So I just want them to think, show that they're high maintenance, bougie, you know, if you always, there's always one that's kind of... Madelyn Cunningham (47:26) yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Cabin at exactly 68.5 degrees. Right. Tracy Sinclair (47:49) demanding and a little like annoying, but you can tell she's gonna be trouble. So I'll always like highlight on that person. But yeah, I just kinda, my editor's really good. I'll, and I'll tell him sometimes. And sometimes I have to give him notes. I'll be like, take this out, put this in, you know. I want them to talk about the water that they wanna be, especially down under season, they really want more water stuff. So I wanna make sure I have groups who are adventurous and you know, wanna be doing water things. So yeah, it's kinda what I keep in all the good stuff. Madelyn Cunningham (47:53) Mm. Mm. that's so cool. I love that. My vote is the whole casting team needs to charter for free and you guys need to have an episode together. How amazing would that be? Tracy Sinclair (48:28) Yeah, it's funny, every group I interview, they're like, you should come on with us. I'm like, no, I'm good. I don't like to be on camera. I'll stay behind. Because they keep saying that, producers keep saying to me, whenever you want to come, because I'm like, I've never been on location. They're like, just let us know when you want to come and we'll fly you out. But I'm waiting for a location I want to go to. Because I don't want to go to the Caribbean. been there. I want to go to Greece or Italy or something. Madelyn Cunningham (48:36) I feel that. Yeah, yeah. I think the new White Lotus season, I don't know if you watch, is gonna be in Mykonos. Girl, it just ended last night. You need to watch it. I'm af- Tracy Sinclair (48:56) yeah, I just, did it just end? That was the five season, I did, I watched it. And I was like, wait, this is the ending? I couldn't believe it. I can't believe that dad didn't kill himself. Not that I wanted him to, but. Madelyn Cunningham (49:05) Yeah, I know. Listen, I was actually gonna ask you how many Ratliff families have you had on the show? Tracy Sinclair (49:15) You You know what's funny? I haven't really, I find that the women are always more crazy than the men. I haven't really had, I, yeah. Right, ton. Well you know what's, and it's funny, because Patrick Schwarzenegger. Madelyn Cunningham (49:25) but of course. Yeah. How many, so how many Parker Posies? How many Victoria Ratliff's? How many, Larazza Pam popping? Tracy Sinclair (49:34) Like we talk on Instagram because he likes Blue Deck and I'm trying to get him on. But he keeps going, I think I'd be boring. I was like, no, you wouldn't. You'd be great. So I messaged him. was like, you're amazing on White Lotus. Yeah, I've got like random celebs like David Spade, huge fan. We message each other all the time on, but he's just so busy. Madelyn Cunningham (49:42) Not anymore. Come on, yeah. Tracy Sinclair (49:56) Chrissy Teigen loves the show, will not come on because she's like afraid. It's really weird. And same with Seth Rogan. He's a huge fan. Madelyn Cunningham (49:56) Patrick? Yeah. Yeah. I love Seth Rogen. Are you watching the studio? Tracy Sinclair (50:06) I just started watching it, but I put it on while I was working and I'm like, it's a show I need to watch and not work. But yeah, I finished White Lotus, it was good. Madelyn Cunningham (50:08) It's cute. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's nice because the episodes aren't super connected. Like they're almost like anthologies. Every episode is just like a story about like, whose big cameo are we gonna do? And like, it's fun. Tracy Sinclair (50:19) Right. Right. Do you, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I liked it. Do you watch Righteous Gemstones? Madelyn Cunningham (50:30) I watched season one and I need to watch it because it's filmed in Charleston and I'm from South Carolina. My husband's from Charleston and so and I love like obviously Walton Goggins. Like if you want to get a guess, get Walton Goggins. my god, are you kidding? That'd be amazing. Tracy Sinclair (50:32) You gotta watch it. Is it? I mean, it is. He, I just love that show. I was watching it last night. It makes me laugh. Not many things make me laugh out loud and that show, it just, it is fabulous. Madelyn Cunningham (50:50) It's... yeah. it's so good. Yeah, I mean, Patrick Schwarzenegger has like a supermodel fiance They would be a great, like he could bring his mom on his dad, right? Tracy Sinclair (51:00) I was like just get your family and we'll get Chris Pratt, get Chris Pratt and his wife. I know or get his even to have his dad. Madelyn Cunningham (51:05) Totally, it would be star studded, that'd be so fun. so okay. Yeah, okay, so wait, this leads me to my next, to my final question, one of my final questions. If you could create a dream charter group, famous, dead or alive, not famous, they don't even have to be related or know each other, but like, what is, what would that group be for you? Tracy Sinclair (51:25) mean, you know what's funny? I actually would love to have a dance group. Like a dance, you know, like with the top choreographers. Yeah, or know, just, the top chore... Madelyn Cunningham (51:30) Ooh, yeah. The Jabba Wockies. No, just kidding. What about the Huffs? What about like, Julie Ann, Derek? Tracy Sinclair (51:39) I, you know what, well I was just, I just had a dance group that had like Brian Friedman, but they were gonna be a backup, because they don't wanna pay. And they were gonna get the house, they were trying to get Paula Abdul on. I would love a dance charter. I think that would bring a totally different audience. Dance is such a huge thing. I mean, there's so many people. Madelyn Cunningham (51:51) Yes, totally. because they would just want to like vibe out and listen to music and dance and I'd be like, let's choreograph something on the boat. Like that would be so fun. Tracy Sinclair (52:05) Right. Right. No, they were like, they were saying that like, well, we're going to do like a routine as we get on the dock and You know, I feel like I wish that Bravo would like let me comp a couple a season and I still could get though a lot of those dance choreographers They've got money. They just don't want to pay, you know, but gonna they're not gonna be like excited and I mean, they'll be excited but they'll still be they're so high maintenance and bougie I would love a dance charter for sure. I mean, I feel like we've had athletes on Musicians musicians are kind of I don't know. I don't feel like they're that exciting. Yeah Madelyn Cunningham (52:39) Low key. You wouldn't want like a, what about like the Kelseys? Like Travis Kelse, Kylie, Jason, that'd be fun. Tracy Sinclair (52:46) Oh, the Kelseys would be good. You know who else I was trying to get, my dream was I was trying to get like a 902 and 0 charter because Jenny Garth's manager emailed me and she's a huge fan and I was like, can you get Tori Spelling? Can we get Brian Austin Green? Like that would be amazing, right? Like a 90s. Madelyn Cunningham (52:53) Yeah, Wait, the reunion, the nostalgic 90s reunion charter is speaking to me right now. Who's doing reboots right now? I'm trying to think of in the NBC universe, what's getting rebooted right now and how could you cross promo that with Below Deck? Ooh. Tracy Sinclair (53:05) Let us start. Yes. Right. Right. Or I'd like to do like a, I'm a huge into horror. like, like, like get like, like Ski Ulrich and like Matt, you know, get like the scream cast on like, like Neve, Neve Campbell. Right. Right. I'm trying to think who else, like I love, I would love it in sync charter cause like Lance has been interested. Madelyn Cunningham (53:22) Ooh. I was gonna say, yeah, some scream queens on there and have a spooky charter. That'd be fun. Oh, how fun is that? my god, are you kidding? I saw Justin in concert in November. Tracy Sinclair (53:46) I know I use so it's just funny. I went I saw him twice I went saw him in Vegas I took my older daughter and then I took my I went to Montreal that's where my family's from I took my cousin He's just so good I mean I used to go to all his concerts and be like in the family section and be backstage So but I still enjoy it Madelyn Cunningham (53:46) Speechless, love, big fan. Yeah. Tracy Sinclair (54:06) I just love him. it was a small quick story. When I first told my daughter to move out to LA and get the job, I was driving her to work and we worked at the Hollywood Production Center and we were sitting in the office and they did all these other movies and stuff and so we were sitting there and Justin walks by the door. And I was like, I think that was Justin. She's like, what? I was like, come on. So we follow him to the parking lot. And he didn't have any security with them. And I was like, Justin? And he turns around. I was like, I don't know if you remember me. And he's like, oh my god. And I was like, was way too sick. He's like, yeah. I was like, this is Brittany. You played hide and go seek with her when she was like three. And she was like 19. And he's like, oh my god, I feel so old. And he's like, how are you guys? And he was asking me about Wade. I'm like, yeah, Wade moved to Maui. Madelyn Cunningham (54:44) Mm-hmm. Tracy Sinclair (54:51) And he just sat and talked to us for like 15 minutes. Just the nicest guy. And hugged us both goodbye. he was my favorite celebrity I've ever worked with. And my daughter was like, is this what it's like to live in LA? I said, yep. Yeah. You see, yeah. Because he was just, he's just, he's always been, he was always the guy that I always saw in whoever treated me good was nice because I was the assistant to Wade at Wade's height when he was huge. And I had people who were horrible to me like Christina Aguilera. Madelyn Cunningham (54:54) Yeah, nice Tennessee boy. that's nice. Yeah, girl. You sold the dream to her right in that moment. Tracy Sinclair (55:21) awful to me, but he Justin would always make it a point to come hug me and ask how I'm doing and like And I was like secretly in love with him. I Loved him, but I had to act cool, but he always was just just the nicest guy Out of everyone. He was just great Madelyn Cunningham (55:22) Tea. Duh. Yeah. That's nice to hear because I really love him despite some of the other opinions and I'm like, can't, I need to only hear good things. I can't hear negative things. Tracy Sinclair (55:44) yeah, I love him. He's such a talented guy, man. He's just such a good dancer and a good singer. And I just love him. Yeah, he's probably one of my all time favorites, Madelyn Cunningham (55:51) that's good to know. That's good to know. Well, and being you mentioned, we were talking about this a little bit beforehand, but I feel like to wrap this up, you you've had such an incredible career and you've talked about kindness, like being kind to the people you encounter because you never know. I mean, not only because like, be a good human, but you never know when that person's going to go on to give you a call. if there was sort of a... a cornerstone of your career, something that you always make sure you do to ensure that you are successful and have longevity, would that be it, you think? Yeah. Tracy Sinclair (56:29) Yeah. I just think I've worked with so many awful people in casting. Casting directors that were just awful. And I just always said if I was ever in charge of a team, I would never be off. And this is the thing, I love my job. I love what I do. And I feel like a lot of these people just do it for the money and they don't love it and they don't have the passion and they're lazy. They just take the paycheck. I want to make sure I have a staff that I can trust and I thank them and yeah I'm just I mean I'm I know I'm a good person I have a good heart so I don't have to worry about it but I also make sure if I work with people that are awful, I won't work with them again. because I'm a Gemini too, so if you rub me the wrong way, I rarely, I really, don't put it up with it, Madelyn Cunningham (57:12) Cut you off. Yeah. Tracy Sinclair (57:15) So many people I've worked with are awful. Like I've got like two or three go-to people. And like, I just won't, I mean, I should get, sometimes I give people a second chance, but rarely. Madelyn Cunningham (57:18) That's crazy. But I think you and I both know how lucky we are to work in this industry. Tracy Sinclair (57:32) So lucky. Like there's some crappy jobs out there. They take advantage of it. Madelyn Cunningham (57:33) And so it's crazy when people don't... Right, it's crazy when people don't see that and can't see that there's... I have so many people who... I don't know, there's just so many talented, amazing people out there who would die to do what we do, literally. And get away from their corporate job, whatever. And so I think when you live in gratitude, knowing how lucky you are, it's difficult when you see other people who don't feel that way. Tracy Sinclair (57:58) bright. Madelyn Cunningham (57:59) I hope you know that I see you and appreciate everything you do. And I know so many people do, whether they know it or not. So. Tracy Sinclair (58:03) thank you. I want an Emmy, that's what I want, that's my last thing. We got nominated and I went to the Emmys, but we didn't win and I was like, I want below deck casting to be nominated, because it is the hardest job out there. That's like my ultimate goal. Madelyn Cunningham (58:12) Yes! Absolutely. Well, I... I love that you put that out in the universe. I strongly believe in speaking it out. I love that. Tracy Sinclair (58:24) Yeah, no, I'm very I'm one of those you got to speak. Yeah, you got to speak it and I feel like yeah, I feel like I'm so passionate and I love I love what I do and people who know me like listen some people I'm sure on other shows think like I'm tough and you know, but I am tough but I've got the bit I've got the bit right I've got the biggest heart and I just work hard and a lot of people are threatened because when I'm on Madelyn Cunningham (58:41) They wouldn't say that to a man. Tracy Sinclair (58:51) I work for this big producer Luke Conklin and he's like known as like the hardest guy to work with and he's like a worker. But I started game shows with him and so I am a booking machine like I can book so fast. So when I get on with all these new people and they're booking like three a day and I'm booking like 20 to 25 a day instead of them like oh how do you do that? like I've been doing this my whole life like just I just want to do my job you know so it's like and I've had Madelyn Cunningham (59:14) Right. Tracy Sinclair (59:15) Bad people call me like, hey Tracy, you don't need to book as much. You can slow down. I'm just fast. That's just me. I'm not trying to do it to be number one. I'm not trying to do it to out book. I just am fast at what I do and I'm not lazy and you know. Right, and I know how to do it. Right. Madelyn Cunningham (59:21) Great. Well, and you've honed in on your craft. your gut, your intuition, you have sharpened and honed in on. That is what is allowing you to be so efficient and so fast. So. Tracy Sinclair (59:37) Right. Right, and so I find the people that ask me, sometimes I'll get some people, hey can you like let me know your tricks or how you do it. I like those people. The people who are like just... Madelyn Cunningham (59:48) Mm-hmm. Tracy Sinclair (59:51) Oh, well Tracy's taking up all the spots. I'm just like, whatever, I'm doing mine. This is what I'm paid for. This guy has hired me for eight years because he knows I book, I get the most on his shows. This is why I'm not doing it to out book you or to make better than you because most of time I am better than you. Just kidding. Right. Madelyn Cunningham (59:57) Right. Right, it's just, well, you're seasoned and also, again, it all comes back to like, as you and I both know, shows aren't getting greenlit like they used to, like the jobs are down. So like in order to keep getting that call to come back, you have got to earn your position and be irreplaceable. Absolutely. 100%. Tracy Sinclair (1:00:28) And you gotta go above and beyond. You can't just do the minimum, you know? And that's why I feel like I do get calls a lot. So yeah, I just just be kind, know, love love what you do and just be kind and work hard. It's not there's no ego. There's no egos. Yeah, there's no egos in this business. You can't have an ego, you know, I'll go I'll go on Van Der Vend Villa. I'm like technically an associate. I'm not like I'm a producer, casting director, treatment. I'm like, I'll tell me what to find. I like look at it as a challenge and I love it I want to find it and I don't care and I will I will go when I do game shows. I never am a producer because you have to interview like 20 to 30 people a day. Like I like I like finding people. I like going to my roots, you know, but yeah, I just feel like you got it if you love what you Madelyn Cunningham (1:00:42) Very solid sage advice. Right. Right. Tracy Sinclair (1:01:12) And we are, we're so lucky to be in this business. Madelyn Cunningham (1:01:15) I love it. Well, thank you so much for coming on. It was so awesome to chat with you and I'm so inspired again by just your work ethic and love kind of the behind the curtain that you've given for some of our favorite shows. So thank you again for coming on and super excited to see what's next on Vanderpump Villa and on the Below Deck franchises and we'll know next time we see our favorite guests that that's all. Tracy Sinclair (1:01:18) Of course. Of course. No, thank you for having me. Madelyn Cunningham (1:01:38) all your work. So thanks so much. Tracy Sinclair (1:01:39) All me, right. No, thank you for my first podcast. That was exciting. Thank you for having me. Madelyn Cunningham (1:01:43) I'm so glad. Thanks so much. Madelyn Cunningham (1:01:50) I was eating up all the boy band Justin Timberlake stories, guys. That was so much fun. Again, casting doesn't get enough love, doesn't get enough appreciation. It is the backbone of our industry. And just so happy that I can have these brilliant people on to talk more about their process, their creativity, and what they do. I hope you guys have an amazing weekend. I've got even more fun guests for you. Coming up, thank you again so much for listening. Don't forget to like, subscribe, follow, rate, review. Every little bit matters. It all counts. Thanks again so much for listening. Have an amazing weekend and we'll see you next Friday on The Unscripted Files. Madelyn Cunningham (1:02:29) The Unscripted Files is brought to you by Good Gravity Entertainment. Thank you to producer Bonnie Adams, Original Music by composer William Wright, Artwork by Lisa Schweikart, and Photography by Reid Schick.