Chris Decima (00:00) the most fun part of this whole thing is just coming up with games and putting people in kind awkward situations and seeing what happens. this episode is all about greed, right? It's like, okay, well, what are the different challenges or situations that we can put these contestants in that kind of focus on that? Madelyn (00:24) Hello, happy Friday. My name is Madelyn Cunningham. I am a development producer in the unscripted industry, bringing you candid conversations with the minds behind your favorite form of entertainment. Today we have someone on the podcast who's worked on some of your favorite shows, Million Dollar Secret, Farmer Wants a Wife, Amazing Race, Finding Magic Mike, the list goes on and his... Bread and Butter is all about designing challenges. He is a challenge producer. So hyper logistics, themes, all the things. Really, really cool to talk to him. I know that you guys will enjoy. This is just such a niche job and it's really, really cool to hear how Chris approaches it, whether it's a huge competition show with cash prize or a dating show, just a really insightful conversation. Can't wait for you guys to listen. Here is my chat with producer Chris Decima. Madelyn Cunningham (01:20) Chris Decima, welcome to the Unscripted Files, how you doing? Chris Decima (01:23) I'm doing very well, thank you. How's it going? Madelyn Cunningham (01:25) Everything's going good. We were just talking a little bit about development. You are a supervising producer, but you were talking about how much you're loving development lately, and we can kind of get more into that creative process a little later. But I want to know, like, why entertainment? Like, who or what is responsible for getting you into this career? Chris Decima (01:41) Sure, I mean it's kind of funny, I kind of fell into it. A lot of people I think just kind of fell into it. But I was working in a sandwich shop on Hollywood Boulevard. And I met a buddy also at that sandwich shop and he was working at the Mark Burnett offices at the time. And Mark Burnett was moving offices. So he invited me, hey, do want to just come move some boxes and like. Madelyn Cunningham (01:46) Mm-hmm. Chris Decima (02:04) move from one office to the next. And I was like, sure, yeah, why not? So that was like my first PA gig was moving offices for Mark Burnett. Madelyn Cunningham (02:12) Such an industry story. And so what you're moving boxes and you're just like, wait, what's going on around here? Like, I'm interested in this. Like, what was next? Chris Decima (02:14) I know, it's so ridiculous. Yeah, was was interesting because they you know, you see all like the the posters right like the survivor posters the the shark tank posters it's like This kind of looks cool. I mean, there's like people still in the edit bays and they're doing their thing and I would cut kind of was very much interested in Continuing what this potential? Moving boxes could lead to so And then I yeah, so then I ended up meeting another buddy and it's kind of was like it's the connections and the connections and kept moving on from there. Madelyn Cunningham (02:51) That's so wild. obviously you saw those posters, right? You saw like, Survivor and you see all these things, was there an unscripted show that like really made an impression on you? Chris Decima (02:59) I do remember like my parents and I, we would always used to watch Survivor from like the very beginning. and we would used to watch The Amazing Race from the, from the beginning. but it's funny because as much as I do work in love on scripts related TV, I don't watch too much of it. And I think that's because I work in it so much where I don't. Madelyn Cunningham (03:06) Mm-hmm. Chris Decima (03:22) want ideas to be coming from what I've seen. Like I want the new fresh ideas. So I think that's kind of the reasoning behind it. Just to keep it keep it new and fresh. Madelyn Cunningham (03:26) Mm. It's also a bit difficult to enjoy fully just because you sort of like, know how the sausage is made, right? So do you watch a lot of like scripted then? Like, are you still consuming a lot of media or are you just sort of blocking it out and like keeping everything pure? Chris Decima (03:35) Yeah. No, I definitely still watch a lot of scripted shows. And it's funny because I do watch a lot of scripted competition shows. Madelyn Cunningham (03:50) Okay. What would be like what like squid games? Like scripted competition. So. Chris Decima (03:58) There's one called Alice in sure who makes it, but it's definitely a competition show where these characters all come together. They get this playing card, and each playing card is a certain new game. It's a new level in the game. It's a little dark. all compete in this big challenge game and whoever makes it out alive basically continues on. But it's very interesting. Madelyn Cunningham (04:24) my God. I grew up watching Harry Potter and Hunger Games, where like, literally you're like, whoa, kids are dying. Like, I feel like that's like pretty par for the course for like, at least my generation. And competition like really is your bag. Like I was looking at all your credits and I feel like that's really like where you thrive. But you started out. Chris Decima (04:27) Okay, yeah. Right, right. Mm-hmm. Madelyn Cunningham (04:44) on the X factor, it seems like pretty early on in your career, at least as far back as my IMDB will go, put a lot of sweat equity in there. talk to me about your experience with that? Chris Decima (04:46) Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah, that did come through the same buddy that got me, like the Mark moving boxes gig, ⁓ or his friend. Yeah, I know. His friend, so they went to, his friend went to, they were just University of Texas together. And X Factor was in season one and they were currently traveling to audition cities. And they said, Hey, we need someone kind of just in the office just to kind of be there for any kind of shipping needs or. Madelyn Cunningham (04:59) Mm-hmm. Thank you to this buddy. Chris Decima (05:17) ⁓ Accounting work and paperwork that kind of thing while they're be bopping around with different cities. I said sure why not I'll do that so I jumped in and that was my first kind of I guess actual big production assistant job and then that truly became a family like the X Factor family it's I was able to do all three seasons so season two I ended up being kind of more of a contestant coordinator. And then season three, I jumped up to kind of being an associate producer, which was a very fun experience for me of just kind of, I love to talk and just talk to random people. So we would literally call these contestants and kind of learn about their life story and kind of why they're on the show and the whole nine yards, the whole background of it all. And yeah, when we just had like an X factor kind of crew reunion. just kind of out of the blue a couple years back and it's just so fun to see everyone again and see what everyone's up to because they're all over the place but it's yeah it's a blast. Madelyn Cunningham (06:17) so X Factor, the US version went on for three seasons because it was a UK format, right? I'm trying to think, was that like in the middle of American Idol, sort of like same time period or, because it didn't predate Idol. Chris Decima (06:20) Mm-hmm. No, no, no, it was about the same timeframe. Also like with the voice and AGT and like, yeah. Madelyn Cunningham (06:32) Okay, yeah. Right, the heyday of talent. Yeah, exactly. So when you, you you go from just managing, watching over the shipping all the way to being a part of identifying, you know, contestant stories like did you? put yourself up for those opportunities? Were you always the person that's like, I can do that and like say yes and figure it out or were you getting approached and sort of saying like, yeah, sure. Chris Decima (06:56) I it was more or less like the opportunity was kind of there and I was like, sure, I'll jump in and do it. Yeah, exactly. Like you said, I had no idea what I was doing, I was like, figured out like it's kind of like, I think that's what's so great about this business and like these people in this industry is that everyone has to start from somewhere and we all know what it was like to start from the bottom. The bottom's a bad word to describe that, but like, it's, you have to start from somewhere, right? And having that support, right? And having that support and learning throughout the process is what really kind of gave me that confidence to say, sure, I'll jump in, I'll do it, why not? Madelyn Cunningham (07:23) Yes, humble beginnings. Yeah, I feel like there's so much of this industry and the stories that I hear are just like that say yes and figure it out mentality. And because everyone also started typically from a PA position or, know, like they are so willing to bring people up and allow people to have that growth, which I really, really love, especially on a set, you know, where you can just be like, hey, can I watch you? Can I learn? And that is, I feel like a really... kind of beautiful like part of our industry as you're going through, you're going through the X factor, you've got like amazing race in there and all these other shows. there, is there like a memorable moment on set that you could point to that really shifted your perspective professionally? Chris Decima (08:14) Yeah, I think for me it wasn't like maybe a specific moment, but I think the combination of moments of it's not just, we're gonna go shoot this thing and it's be done with it. It's just everything that really does go behind it of the logistics, the planning, the timing, all the fun paperwork, the insurance. It's... I was like, dang, there's a lot to do just for like, all we wanna do is shoot in this cafe and this is the to do all this other stuff. So I think it was just kind of a combination of moments to really put things into perspective. And I mean, it makes you love it even more, yeah. Madelyn Cunningham (08:43) Right? and just understand how much it takes. So many, there's, like, again, that's part of like, there's so many unsung heroes when it comes to entertainment of people who like, you know, do all the small things to like make it happen. Here, I'll pause. Chris Decima (09:05) It's LA. Madelyn Cunningham (09:05) Let's see. Is that a helicopter? Why did I hear that the budget for like the helicopter portion of, I don't know, it was like billions of dollars. Like I heard this crazy number. I need to actually Google it, but it was like the helicopter budget alone is billions. Chris Decima (09:07) Yeah. god. my god, I can see that. great, is it gonna circle now? Is that what's happening? Madelyn Cunningham (09:23) I think they're coming for you. Chris Decima (09:26) Yeah, I got a citizen alert. Man throwing rocks 900 900 feet away. Madelyn Cunningham (09:31) Is that, do you think this and the helicopter are connected? they, is he throwing it off a bridge? What's happening? It's, who knows? Anything is possible. Chris Decima (09:35) I don't know, yeah. It's hard to say. Madelyn Cunningham (09:42) And so you go up through the ranks and it seems like, like I said, like you really found your niche when it comes to logistics and like really, really doing a lot of planning. like, did you start with that on amazing race where you were really starting to get involved in sort of like, hyper, hyper logistics when it comes to planning challenges, locations, like talk to me about how you really found where you are now. Chris Decima (10:08) Sure, I do think Amazing Race was an amazing opportunity for me. Again, that came through another friend that had, was an opening and he's like, hey, come interview for it. And I did. And it was such an incredible experience. And... so much work. But I think that was the beauty of it is that I got to learn so many different aspects of basically putting a shoot together. Especially when I was a country producer and you're basically kind of taking over and running that leg of the race. And It was a very, very wild, fun experience. ⁓ But it was very logistic heavy and just kind of really making sure you kind of communicate through all departments constantly. you know, working in different time zones too. So sometimes you might be up at like 4 a.m. here in Los Angeles in order to contact and talk to someone that's maybe over in Scotland or Bangkok. And it's like... Yeah, it was a wild experience. I loved it and I learned so much from it. And I'm just very grateful for the couple seasons I did on that show. Madelyn Cunningham (11:12) Yeah, and really research heavy too though, because you're also trying, we've had like former amazing race producers here as well. And like, so, and you're researching deeply, you want to make sure that like the challenges are culturally relevant, respectful, like all of the above. And so it's super heavy research as well. Is that something that came pretty naturally to you? Chris Decima (11:18) Mm. yeah, I mean, I guess I, that was maybe the first experience of, which I kind of like to push forward in all my challenges now is that, you know, I learned something from an executive producer and it always stick with me. And it's like, you're always doing it with a purpose. Like you're not just going to go in there and I don't know. collect a bunch of flowers, like what's the purpose of it? It's like building that kind of story behind the challenge for Amazing Race, for instance, or maybe theming a challenge into an episode to constantly help drive what is gonna happen later on in the story. And it'll always stick with me, is like you're going in with a purpose and to keep that in mind. But like you said, the Amazing Ways challenges are very, very culture heavy. And again, it's something else that you kind of take with you is that, you know, even doing a lot of shows now up in like Canada or over like Midwest, it's making sure that you are not, I guess, hurting any feelings and making sure you're kind of true to the area that you're kind of filming in, which is very important. Madelyn Cunningham (12:37) Yeah. designing challenges is really kind of like your bag. talk to me just about your creative process when it comes to designing challenges, you know, for a specific format and, and how you sort of go about Chris Decima (12:51) Yeah, think that's the most fun part of this whole thing is just coming up with games and putting people in kind awkward situations and seeing what happens. But I think the most important part is... Again, kind of going with a purpose and it is starts all with that research of what are you trying to accomplish here? Like sometimes, sometimes it's maybe a theme of like, Hey, like this, this episode is all about greed, right? It's like, okay, well, what are the different challenges or situations that we can put these contestants in that kind of focus on that? And of course the list can go on and on and on. But it's definitely. research, of buzzwords, stuff that's kind of new is always important to me. sticking, I think what's really important now is sticking with kind of a theme throughout the series. So it's not just putting in... Just like one big challenge is for the sake of having a big challenge, right? But it's like, let's really stick with the world we're in and why it's there and how can it help push the story. But with that said, I don't want to know too much about contestants because I don't want to ever have that in my head of like, it's gonna help one person or the other. ⁓ Madelyn Cunningham (14:10) Hmm. Chris Decima (14:10) So I've done a lot of like, I've done challenges on shows that don't have any kind of prize money, which then it is very much like, this is going to be great for Sally or this is going to be great for Tom because we know their personality is going to have trouble doing this. So that's a little bit different when there's no prize money involved, which is a whole other thing. It's a lot more. Madelyn Cunningham (14:26) Mm-hmm. Chris Decima (14:31) It's a lot more fun, I think, because then you can really kind of pick and choose what you want to come out. And that's where you're really going in with a purpose. But then you have the challenges that do have prize money involved. And it's very much making sure everything is the exact same. The testing that goes involved in it, timings. A lot of times when we test challenges, we try to break the challenge. We try to cheat as much as we can. Madelyn Cunningham (14:35) Yeah. Mm, like, okay. Chris Decima (14:53) Just so we know like what, mean contestants are gonna do anything for money. So it's like, what are they gonna do? Let's try to mimic the same thing and fix it before it happens. Madelyn Cunningham (15:03) Yeah, how much are you guys like testing this out before are you like in a, a conference table, like threading a needle, like what are you doing? Chris Decima (15:11) Yeah, I mean, it's it's goes by steps for sure. It's kind of the approval of the main concept. And then you kind of dive a little bit deeper into more of the gameplay, kind of more of the challenge aspect of what it's really going to test or really going to do. And then it even comes down to materials, right? We're using a foam ball or we're to use a wooden ball. Is it going to be, you know, this or that? And then it really is we test it. few times. mean, not a few times, but like a few groups of testers will come in and we see what they do. And then we kind of have to pivot from there. Yeah. ⁓ Madelyn Cunningham (15:45) Watch it play out. Yeah. It reminds me a little bit, Love Island does a mock week right before they film where they bring in mock cast members, islanders and just like see what happens to see how like if they break something or by break, I mean like if they, you know, find a way around like hide around a camera or whatever. So you guys do something similar for challenges. Are you, do you tend to like? Chris Decima (15:51) Hmm. Hmm Madelyn Cunningham (16:09) physical challenges or more sort of like heady intellectual cerebral challenges more. Chris Decima (16:14) Good question. think it depends on where it is in the series, if that makes any sense. Where, as you're kind of building a series or building a story through any of these shows, it's kind of what does the viewer want to see and know at the beginning versus what does the viewer want to see and learn closer to the end. I think it's very important to keep in mind as you kind of develop these. Challenges and kind of placing them where they need to be throughout the series too is is what are you again going in with a purpose? right, it's like what what are you trying to Tell the viewer and you want to learn something new about these people every time so Madelyn Cunningham (16:52) Yeah, so for example, at this point, we want everyone to build trust, because they're just now getting to the mansion, and we want to have a trust-building challenge. But then later in the story, it's like, no, we want to start to show some cracks. We want to start to see who's going to betray other people and really Chris Decima (17:11) Hmm. Madelyn Cunningham (17:13) get their, if it's their greed on, if we're like towards the end of the series. So yeah, so everything sort of having a purpose and like, again, building or breaking or somewhere else, you know, where, yeah, it's so interesting because I feel like competition, like challenges have really become so innate in like almost every format, even dating formats. It's like, we have these challenges to, again, like, Chris Decima (17:22) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Madelyn Cunningham (17:38) showcase because they typically bring out a different side of people. Even when you try for them not to under like high stress, a time limit, you're bringing out something. So is that something you want to show a potential romantic partner or something you want to show a potential strategic partner? Like, so it's very interesting for you to have to sort of think through that as the story goes. But one show, mean, one show you did, and you're going to have to correct me if I'm wrong. Does Farmer Wants a Wife have challenges? Chris Decima (17:52) Mm-hmm They do not. have dates and then they also kind of have activities, like farm life. Yeah. Madelyn Cunningham (18:06) Okay. Okay, okay, so talk to me about your work on Farmer Wants a Wife. This is a dating show, very like bachelor-esque kind of like, again, with farmers who want a wife. And so talk to me about your work on this show, because that's a bit, it's like kind of derivative from the rest of your credits. And I'd love to just chat about like your experience on it and what your specific sort of role was. Chris Decima (18:31) Of course, I that, I love doing that show. It's so much fun. It's so much fun. It came from Australia version format and it's huge over there. It's extremely successful with just kind of marriages and family starting. So it popped on over. And I never thought I'd be on a farm, but I have been. Madelyn Cunningham (18:34) Yeah Where did they film? Chris Decima (18:52) The season two I was in a town called Center, Colorado on a potato farm with Brandon who I adore. He's so amazing. But yeah, so funny. those types of shows where now I feel like I'm a potato expert. mean, somewhat. But you learn all these new skills. Yeah. Madelyn Cunningham (19:08) Right. Because you to enter these worlds. Part of this job is you make this world your universe for a period of time, for your 16, 20, 24 weeks, whatever it is. And suddenly you do. You become an expert in whatever it is. It's potatoes, or if you're a country producer in Scotland. And so I feel like as a result of this career, you just have so many random interests. Chris Decima (19:19) Mm-hmm. Madelyn Cunningham (19:37) If someone said, stand up for 30 minutes and talk about this one thing, you have a million things to choose from because you're like this expert in all these little like micro subjects. Okay. So potatoes, you're in Colorado. Chris Decima (19:45) Right. Yeah. ⁓ Yeah, it's and it's like with these guys too. So they are the true farmers and or ranchers or whatever have you and They don't know what they kind of signed up for her. Right? So it's It's so much fun to kind of just like learn their journey. I Became best buddies best friends with the two seasons that I did so far I still talk to them and kind of text them and say hey and see how they're doing and And that kind of becomes it's more a collaborative situation when you're on the farm. Because me, I don't know what kind of farm work happens certain times of the year. Like you can only harvest during a certain couple of months. What does that harvest look like? You know, what goes into storing them and moving them and shipping them? And so it's very collaborative with the farmer or rancher. just to kind of know what is possible, what can you guys do together. But also they want to, they're looking for love. And it's like, I am all about finding them love. It's like, I'm ready for it. So it's putting the, these girls in the situation to kind of prove, not prove, but to show like, yeah, I'm also here looking for love. I want to be there and help you with this life. And it's great. So we kind of, it's funny because there's like, there's four farms in the show. And we're all kind of, all like the supervising producers are kind of overseeing each farm. And then we all come together with the executives on like the mixers, like with the dancing and it's kind of the big dinners. So it's, that was very much making sure that everyone's communicating across all farms, knowing exactly kind of what's going on. Madelyn Cunningham (21:28) farms like close in proximity? Like, no, okay, so you're filming across the country at four, like basically four different farmers. And then okay, and then but they do at some point come all together. Is that what you're saying? Okay. Chris Decima (21:37) Mm-hmm. Right. Yep. So then we all come together, hang out, of catch up and all the girls love coming back together just to see kind of who's still around and kind of, and it's like, what's going on? that and the other. ⁓ But it's such a great, I love that show. It's so much fun. Just because like we're literally trying to find some good love for these four farmers and they're so sweet. They're all so sweet. Madelyn Cunningham (21:51) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. so okay, you're in Colorado, you're with this one farmer, and then so you're learning about his day-to-day life, because it's not just like date this guy, or marry this guy, it's marry the lifestyle. And so are you designing dates and creating experiences completely based on not only like life on the farm, but also like the surrounding city, what he would do day-to-day, but you're not traveling abroad like the Bachelor going on dream dates. It's very real life, already integrated into their day to day. Chris Decima (22:34) 100%. Yeah, it's like if you were to live here, these are the dates you kind of be going on. To a certain extent, right, but we get to think of some wacky fun ones. Like we had a dinner ⁓ date in the potato cellar, like we're surrounded by potatoes. But like we make it look, they make it look beautiful. know, candles, lights, it looks great. Steak dinner. Yeah. But it very much is. Madelyn Cunningham (22:35) Okay. No. You got some candles, yeah. Potato vodka, yeah. Chris Decima (22:59) this is kind of what you would be experiencing and enjoying while you're here. yeah, and sometimes we get to kind of go above and beyond, but like, would you ever do something like this? He's like, I guess, maybe not, but sure, let's do it, you know. Madelyn Cunningham (23:04) That's so much fun and creative. Yeah. Yeah. Or did any of them find, like, actually find a wife? Are they, married to their person from the show? Chris Decima (23:20) I don't think they're quite married yet, there's two, two from season two are still together. And I don't, I honestly, I'm not sure if I know about season. Madelyn Cunningham (23:22) Okay. That's very successful success rate. Chris Decima (23:31) Sure. Yeah. Madelyn Cunningham (23:31) We'll have to check back in. I'll do a fact check after the episode and I'll check in. No, but it is cool because it seems like these gentlemen really are looking for someone and are looking for a partner. And so to get to design. Chris Decima (23:35) Yeah, I'm actually not sure. Madelyn Cunningham (23:46) a show and dates and an experience around like, yeah, we're not just doing stuff to do it. Like we genuinely are trying to design something authentic. Like that's an exciting brief. to just live this life on the farm for, you know, a couple of months and dive into their world. Is there anything that you like, you're. Chris Decima (23:54) Mm-hmm. Madelyn Cunningham (24:06) You're in LA, I know, but was there any part of you that's like, I see the appeal. Like, I totally get this. Chris Decima (24:11) I mean, it's a great little kind of slow down. And being surrounded by cement here all the time, being able to then go and be surrounded by mountains and fields. And last season I was with a great guy, Colton, and he had more of like a ranch. And that was so much fun, just being around horses and just the cow. It's a wild experience. And it does kind of give you that time to kind of breathe. Madelyn Cunningham (24:15) Mm. Chris Decima (24:37) and just kind of take it all in and be like, is fantastic. Madelyn Cunningham (24:42) Yeah, I love that. There's another show that you did that I do wanna talk about, Finding Magic Mike. Chris Decima (24:47) yeah! Madelyn Cunningham (24:47) how fun was that? I imagine that was absolutely wild. So were you designing challenges for that as well? Like tell me, tell me about this. Chris Decima (24:57) that was all about all these guys that are kind of coming to live their best life. Like they're gonna come and get the, know, a whole different experience. Very just, here we go. We're show what we got. Average Joe's are gonna come and just dance and get that confidence back up and see what we can do. that was a wild experience because that was on, we did it on Vegas. So we did it where they had the show, at the Sahara Hotel. And those guys legit danced. I mean, they legit learned all the dances. They were all in. Madelyn Cunningham (25:21) Mmm. ⁓ Chris Decima (25:31) some of the challenges or activities were quite strange. Just like, just meaning that we, well, like the very first one was like, we kind of created this kind of elderly ladies, bachelorette kind of like bingo party. And we had the guys kind of come in and do a dance number for all the ladies, just to like really push them out of their comfort zone. was like, here we go. Like the whole point was just kind of. Madelyn Cunningham (25:35) They quiet. Mm-hmm. Chris Decima (25:55) finding your inner self and kind of like the confidence and like you deserve to be here and you know. So yeah, that was a wild one. I always forget about that one I think. Madelyn Cunningham (26:05) So they're, wait, okay, wait, cause the idea is the log line is like guys who have lost their magic, find it through this journey of confidence through like performing and dancing so they're dancing for, did you say bingo ladies? Stop. Chris Decima (26:19) Yeah, it was like a retirement ladies like birthday party. Madelyn Cunningham (26:23) And wait, so I just could imagine this with like, is there actually music going on? Or is there like a click track? And it's just absolute just grinding, okay? Grinding by the bingo board, like that's it. Was that your idea? Chris Decima (26:29) no, that was music. Yeah. ⁓ there was not what they like there were three of us four of us are just like let's just go for it Madelyn Cunningham (26:38) You're like, I'm not responsible for this. What was your favorite activity challenge that you designed for that show? That you were like, this actually, it had a purpose, it did what it needed to do. Chris Decima (26:49) I mean, I think as simple as it was, there's this one that we call kind of like, everyday runway and actually was thought of like at midnight the day before, but, it was, it was very simple and, we had a comedian be the host of this everyday runway and it was just these guys to put on their best outfits that they feel most comfortable in. Madelyn Cunningham (26:58) Love that. Chris Decima (27:11) and strut their stuff and kind of explain a little bit of why they feel comfortable in it. You know, what do they want to kind of get across when they're out in the street? It just kind of was like the whole overall process was feeling the confidence of what you're the body you're already in and what you're wearing, you know, and it's like she, the host had so much fun with it. Like she like, you know, poking fun of. whatever I was wearing. It could have been like overalls or like jean, short jean shorts or whatever it might be. And it's, it wasn't like even just like a challenge challenge, but it was like, they would come out, shred their stuff, some music and kind of just learn a little bit more about themselves. And I think that's a little bit of like going in with a purpose of what, where are we going after this? Madelyn Cunningham (27:34) Of course. Chris Decima (27:55) you can have something very small and it still has a great impact. If not, maybe visually, definitely kind of emotionally and story-wise. Madelyn Cunningham (27:59) Mm-hmm. Right, well, and you have to do a mix, well, because you're not only considering, you're doing all these things, but Chris, like, you have to work within a budget also. that's a whole other thing that, we haven't even talked about is that, you know, you're also having to work within a budget for art, for location, for execution, for whatever, and having to ensure that you, have that impact and have that purpose, but also are like... Chris Decima (28:29) Mm-hmm. Right, right, right. Madelyn Cunningham (28:30) respecting the line item, which is, that, that, you know, over the years, like, have you noticed it getting tougher and tougher to, like, I know you, you're working on some big budget shows, but still, budgets are dwindling is, is, are you kind of having to work and be more and more sort of efficient and economical? Chris Decima (28:46) Yes, the short answer to that is yes. But I think I worked on this show called like Marriage Bootcamp for quite a while. And that show actually really helps me in this field of kind of like doing things on the cheap, guess you could say, where all of our challenges were very much kind of what can research and what can we do for a very small budget. Madelyn Cunningham (28:52) Mm. Okay. Chris Decima (29:08) As far as like when Craigslist was a thing we would kind of go on and find this guy had this like whole Storage unit of really old like suitcases. I'm like, okay great. Let's go buy those for ten bucks, you know, it was like You get you get a little creative of where you find items and what you can turn items into Yeah, it's definitely getting a lot tougher, even though maybe some shows are a bigger budget in general, but they're also maybe not allocating that money to every department. So yeah, it's tough, but it's also part of the challenge, and I think it's fun. Madelyn Cunningham (29:47) It's part of the creative process for sure. Yeah, you were on that for like five years. You were on like 135 episodes of that show. Yeah. Chris Decima (29:53) I did that show a lot. was fun. We got to really kind of mess with those people a bit, which like I was saying, when there's a show or a competition and activities when there's no money involved, it's like, we have a lot more freedom. like, yeah. It's like we got that we shocked them with shock collars. We made like shocking mazes. They'd like hold hands and go through. Madelyn Cunningham (30:08) Well, right, there's no stakes, like whatever. Chris Decima (30:18) We had we had them shovel a big pile of like shit and put them in suitcase and then they had to carry them around. It was those kinds of fun things, but they're all themed. See exactly it's like it's very literal. Yeah, yeah, yeah, very literal. Yeah. Madelyn Cunningham (30:28) And you're like, this is the baggage you bring into marriage. Like that was the, that was literally the parallel. I love that. I love that. No, but I mean, they really do like, again, and that is why I think like coming from those experiences where you do have to be really economically minded and like be flexible, make a lot happen, you know, to where you are now, it's like, you do think really holistically and you're able to do a lot with a little or, you know, sort of retool set pieces or like whatever, you know, and. and try to really like stretch things, which I think is super important, again, as budgets dwindle and deliverables rise. it's, know, it's, that is sort of the name of the game. You were talking about how, you know, you sort of, so when you get brought in, like, tell me what you really feel like you bring to the process. you're getting asked to come on to a show that is a reality competition, right? Chris Decima (31:07) Right. ⁓ Madelyn Cunningham (31:24) What is someone hiring you for? They're like, this is the Chris effect. Like, what are you bringing that is really additive to the series? Chris Decima (31:32) Just a bunch of laughs. No, think it's, I think it really is kind of the knowledge of different types of challenges, different types of scenarios. I've been lucky enough to work on relationship shows and challenge shows. So it's like, I've done the story side of things and I've done kind of logistics and challenge and testing. Madelyn Cunningham (31:34) That's important. Chris Decima (31:55) So it's been able to bring that kind of combination of the two. And coming on early to these projects is extremely helpful too, is to help to kind of develop and see like what really is possible. Can you really produce these or are we just tossing some idea out there because it sounds good, but what does it really take in order to make it happen? So I think it's like that combo of story, challenge. going in with a purpose, that whole thing is, I think, extremely helpful. Madelyn Cunningham (32:22) So are you typically coming in pre-green light and like helping to shape these things? Chris Decima (32:27) I know, a few of them. I used to do a lot more previously. And then these last few shows, we tend to get smaller and smaller time for that. So it kind of, what the grain of salt is, you know. Madelyn Cunningham (32:30) Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. And so when you're actually going through the process of designing, creating challenges, what is your preferred method? Are you pen to paper? Are you working in a spreadsheet? Are you in Canva? Tell me what your creative process is when you're actually starting to brainstorm and present ideas for a specific show. Chris Decima (33:10) It's funny I start with kind of like buzzwords And it's just kind of because one single word can kind of just end up giving you a random idea that you just kind of go off on I do a little bit of a brain dump So it's like I don't dive into anything specific at the you know, right at the get-go. I'll just type it out or this empty whiteboard I have behind me. I just real quick, you know Madelyn Cunningham (33:19) Mm-hmm. Chris Decima (33:31) 10 o'clock at night you're like, I have an idea. just write it down. Yeah. Yeah. But and then I'm very, ⁓ very visual. Madelyn Cunningham (33:35) The best time for ideas. Chris Decima (33:40) I like to kind of write, kind ⁓ of do a challenge write up in a way of the reasoning behind it, what the challenge is and potential kind of outcomes, like story outcomes. And then very much a kind of a visual aspect of mostly kind of photos and that sort of thing. And I dabble in kind of Adobe here and there as well. So I'm able to. I'm gonna blitz some photos here and there's kind of help. Yeah to help kind of like really push it push it over the edge there Yeah ⁓ Madelyn Cunningham (34:05) collage, put some stuff together. Yeah. Do you, are you using AI to visualize at all? Chris Decima (34:14) No, not really. It's like I am I actually use this website called shop deck Madelyn Cunningham (34:20) I have the tab right now. Chris Decima (34:21) It's so it's okay. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Which I just kind of experienced and found not too long ago. And I think it's amazing just to like help. I mean it's it already has like incredible visuals and why not kind of help use those because it has the tone of it too. Right. So it's like helps helps get your point across. Madelyn Cunningham (34:26) Me and Shodek are like this. Yes. Yes. Exactly. Yeah, well, you can Google only so many like shocked face at someone. yeah, shot deck always comes through. Frame set is another really good one. Chris Decima (34:49) Bruh. Madelyn Cunningham (34:54) it has ads as well. So like you can even pull from just like advertisements, commercial pieces. So it's kind of like fully, it's like holistically, you can get a lot of different things, but yeah, Shot Deck is the best. Okay, cool. What is, is there a favorite challenge you've ever designed? if you could have one on your resume you just handed it over and were like, Chris Decima (34:56) Hmm. awesome. Yeah. Right. Madelyn Cunningham (35:13) I did this, what would it be? Chris Decima (35:14) Hmm we were in Istanbul for the real love boat and we did kind of a kind of a search basically in the Grand Bazaar and it was wild. It was just kind of fun. The Grand Bazaar is huge. Madelyn Cunningham (35:30) it's like a massive market, right? Yeah. Chris Decima (35:32) Yeah, yeah, yeah, so It was a they did like go to different had to find different shops and pick out different pieces and yeah, so that one Madelyn Cunningham (35:40) Okay. Okay, my God, that sounds amazing. And that was for the real love boat, which we didn't even talk about, but you did say that was like really, really fun. ⁓ So, okay, let's start to wrap it up. So you talked about, you know, sort of how you got into the industry, working your way up, saying yes and figuring it out. like, now I don't know if people can have a story sort of like yours of like, I helped move boxes and here I am. Like, I just feel like it's a bit different. Chris Decima (35:48) Mmm, yeah. Right. Madelyn Cunningham (36:08) With that in mind though, would be your advice to someone looking to break in, someone who looks at your career and is like, oh, I would love to do that. What do you feel like is just a little tidbit of advice you could offer? Chris Decima (36:20) I think it really is a little bit kind of we talked about was just kind of say, jump in, say yes and figure it out, and just be very confident about it. I think it's also being very honest and. You know, being able to tell someone whether it be in an interview or not that, you know what, I may not have direct, experience in this, but I have. this other experience that lines great with it. Like, listen, working in a restaurant or grocery store, you're constantly talking to people and you have to understand their personalities. They're obviously going to be different. So there's even that you can bring to bring to the table. And it's like, I think it's I guess knowing too that things are ever evolving. Even if you are take take the pH up, right if you're in the pH job take it and Use that time to see what you want to maybe get into Because there's probably a lot of departments that you had no idea even existed if you're kind of just starting out So I think that's important to it was like take that experience and see what happens Madelyn Cunningham (37:24) Yes. Well, there's a lot of ideas of what certain jobs are like, or even a lot of misconceptions, good or bad, because it's hard work. Being on set is especially hard work. And so I think it is important to get that firsthand look. And also ask. I'm a very big fan of asking. Like, hey, can I shout out you? Can I mentor you? Hey, can I chat with you? Can you bring me on the next job? Whatever. And I can assist. Chris Decima (37:34) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Madelyn Cunningham (37:49) just to check it out. Like I think that I'm always a big fan of that as well. You you are very much like involved in a lot of shows that are kind of, you know, considered, I would say like on the edge or on the cusp of always trying something new. I know you're in development as well. Tell me just to wrap it up, tell me kind of where you feel like unscripted TV is going. Cause I know we hear the buzzwords, we see the mandates, like, you know, but talk to me about your kind of opinion on where. Chris Decima (37:52) Mm-hmm. Madelyn Cunningham (38:14) where we'll be in the next couple of years in terms of sort of what trends we're seeing, what types of shows we're seeing. Chris Decima (38:19) think it's going to be more immersive. I think it's going to be creating these worlds that you want to be a part of and you want to go experience yourself. And I think there's going to be a time where you're going to be watching, you'll be able to watch a show or challenge people going through something and interact with that outcome. And I think it's going to be awesome. It's be so cool. Madelyn Cunningham (38:42) Yep. I agree with you 100%. You know, I think Love Island, I'll give that as an example, as a perfect example of why Playalong works and why, like, it's so interesting because like you think back to like X Factor Idol, like I remember calling in to vote, right? And then like that sort of collective monoculture viewing. Chris Decima (38:54) Mm-hmm. Madelyn Cunningham (39:05) very much went away and now it's coming back. And inviting the audience to be a part of it, I think is going to be major. And I think we see that success, like I said, play out with the live voting in Love Island. I could see audiences certainly getting to vote on challenges like kind of playing producer, which I think is really, really fun. is definitely sort of the next wave of what we're going to see are you watching anything right now that you are loving? Chris Decima (39:33) It's funny because I watch a lot of like Netflix, but I like, I just watch it because it's something to kind of take my brain off of what's going on. Yeah. Yeah. I just, I just click, watch. it's like, okay, fine. but nothing in particular. Madelyn Cunningham (39:39) So you just watched The Hunting Wives, no, I'm just kidding. Okay, so you don't have like a favorite thing you're binging right now. And are you like excited for football season? Chris Decima (39:52) Well, I'm a huge soccer fan. So with LAFC bringing on Sonny, I'm in it. I'm here for it. Madelyn Cunningham (39:55) Okay. Love that. I don't know what that means, but I'm so happy for you. Is Sunny a player? Okay. Chris Decima (40:03) Yeah, yeah, perfect. Yeah, yeah, he just came from the Tottenham Hotspurrs, which is over in North London, from a Premier League, which is like their big, their big league over there. It's a big signing. Yeah, it's a big signing. Yeah. Yeah, thank you so much. Madelyn Cunningham (40:10) Okay, I've heard of them. Okay, great. Love that for you. So excited for you. well, this has been so much fun. I have enjoyed having you on. it's so refreshing to like talk to you and understand your creative process. I love your, you know, your sandwich shop moving boxes story. it's so awesome. And to see where you are now in some of these major shows. for some of the best streamers. it's a really cool story. So thank you so much for taking a moment to chat with me. Chris Decima (40:40) of course. Thank you so much for having me. It's been a lot of fun. Madelyn Cunningham (40:43) Yeah, absolutely. Later. Chris Decima (40:45) Alright, see you. Madelyn (40:50) Huge thank you to Chris for coming on. I hope you guys enjoyed that conversation. So what a fun job. I designing challenges is absolutely one of my favorite parts of development. So, so happy that Chris came on. Guys, my next guest next week is going to be answering all of your burning questions from the Netflix documentary that everyone has watched. You know which one I'm talking about. The one that's been number one, the one that's all over your FYPs with reactions. Yes. I will be answering all your burning questions about unknown number, the high school catfish, because I'm interviewing the director, Skye Borgman. Can't wait for next week. I am dying to dive in with her. So make sure you like, subscribe, rate, review. Also follow me on Instagram at Unscripted Files Pod. If you have a show, something you're curious about, whatever, me. I'll try to get them on. That's all for this week. I'll see you next week on the Unscripted Files.