Sebastien Basset (00:00) it seems like anybody could do my job, but if you have somebody in there who doesn't know what they're doing, you're gonna be like, crap, I wish we had somebody there that knew what they were doing. it's a difficult, know, nobody on set is dispensable, but some roles are roles that you don't realize are so important. until you have the wrong person in that role Madelyn (00:26) Hey, welcome to the Unscripted Files. My name is Madelyn Cunningham. I'm a development producer in the unscripted industry, bringing you candid conversations with the minds behind your favorite form of entertainment. Today, we have a true unsung hero on the teams of all of these amazing shows you love. In particular, the culinary competition shows you love. He has worked 24 and 24, Holiday Baking Championship, Halloween Baking Championship, Spring Baking Championship. He is an associate producer. who is the glue or dare I say the gravy that holds it all together. Really interesting to hear about what his particular role is and how he keeps the team together. He tracks story, he tracks stakes really cool to talk to him. Here is my conversation with Sebastien Bassett. Madelyn (01:15) Welcome Sebastien to the Unscripted Files. How you doing? Sebastien Basset (01:18) I'm good, I'm good, how are you? Madelyn (01:19) I'm good. really excited to chat with you. you've been associate producer on 24 and 24, holiday baking championship, Halloween baking championship, super mega cakes, spring baking championship. The list goes on. I love having you for this like pre Thanksgiving episode because it's perfect. We can talk all about food, but I want to know what was your entry point into this industry and what did you fall into production by accident? Like how did you find yourself where you are? Sebastien Basset (01:45) Well, you know, I graduated from college in 2020 and right in middle of pandemic. And so it was really hard to find any kind of work in production at that moment in time. And then the productions that were in going on, know, most of the time it was people that had already been working. So new people like me had basically no shot of getting in. And so I started with some PA jobs on a few different little shows for Discovery, HGTV and stuff like that. Madelyn (01:48) Mm. Sebastien Basset (02:13) But when the opportunity arose in 2023 for me to do AP work, I really jumped into it because it seemed like it was more up my alley as a screenwriter. I wanted to do more story-related things and more getting into those kind of things that really make the TV what the TV is rather than being a support staff, which is still kind of what I am as an AP, but... in a way that touches the story and touches the creative a lot. Madelyn (02:43) Totally. I can't imagine all of these are competition shows, high stakes, 24 and 24. mean, it's 24 chefs, 24 hours, right? Like, I mean, it's really, it's as high stress as the Thanksgiving episode of The Bear, let's say. what is, and we'll get into the nitty gritty of your associate producer work too, but like, what is the secret ingredient to you? maintaining your composure when you're on a tight deadline, high stress, high stakes on a set like this. Sebastien Basset (03:16) So preparation, With a show like that, you spend more time planning and preparing and in pre-production and all that stuff before you ever set foot on set. then once you set foot on set, you know, it's over in 24 hours in that show's case, which is insane. But that's why that makes the preparation time so much more important. know, mapping out every single beat of the show. really every minute of the show gets mapped out. then once we get in, it's basically like we're just doing this thing. We have all our documents, everything prepared. We know what needs to be done, when it needs to be done. And that also is partially because of a great AD team that we have that keeps everything running extremely smoothly, especially when we have 24, for example, where we have multiple crews. overlapping coming in to start when the other one's finishing, that kind of thing. every day up until the start, the time we start shooting that show, everybody's like, how are we going to pull this off? There's no way we're going to pull this off. We've done two seasons, but how are we going to pull this off? We can't do it a third time, surely. And then because the competency, the competency level of everybody on producing team and, and everywhere else. is so high, you know, we bring it together and that preparation pays off in a way that, you know, and it gets, it still gets crazy on the day, but we have all that preparation and we know what needs to be done and we have a plan and if we stick to it, then everything turns out great. Madelyn (04:41) I love that. It is so audacious. And you know, food, it's hard to bring a new food competition into the zeitgeist when you have so many. It's a saturated genre. And 24 and 24 was one that came up and I was like, ⁓ this is good. It's audacious. It's bold. And I can't imagine the preparation it takes because you're right, you don't have days of filming. have 24 hours in succession. No breaks, no nothing. And I love that you gave some applause to the entire team because it really does take an absolute village. And it's such a cool concept. You kind of describe your job as being the connective tissue between pre, pro and post and really ensuring that each of those pillars of production are all speaking to each other. So let's talk about pre-production and what you do on these shows, whether it's in casting, pre-interviews, looking for storylines. Talk to me about what pre-pro typically looks like on a competition cooking or baking show for you. Sebastien Basset (05:44) Well, by the time I get involved the casting team has already done an enormous amount of work in you going through we have a Working pool of people that we want to do people who have been on other shows either on Food Network or on Bravo and any you know any of these competition shows we look for Yeah Madelyn (06:03) plucking from top shaft. ⁓ Sebastien Basset (06:06) Yeah, we get them from there, we get them from anywhere, and we look for people with not only strong skills in cooking, but also strong personalities because ultimately a lot of people who can cook really well can't talk very well. And so finding those people that both have good personalities for television and who also have the skills to back it up is a difficult task. Madelyn (06:30) Yeah, well, who can they need to, know, when the, when the jester comes by to be like, what are you doing? What's it tasting like? They've got to be able to self-propel story, talk about their emotions, talk about what they're thinking, what their inspiration is, or just be able to describe their dish in a way that like translates through the screen. Cause we can't taste it. Like we're not the judges. And so you're right. That is a tall order, but you do consistently, you know, casting big huge applause to them, they consistently find some real gems. And so when you come into the process, what exactly are you doing with these cast members? Sebastien Basset (07:07) have kind of that outline that casting has of kind of their basic achievements, any shows they've been on. And then what we kind of do in pre-production, that's more so producers than associate producers, but we talk to all of them. We spend an hour, hour or two with each of them, just getting into what's new with them, if there's anything new, getting information about their lives beyond their culinary careers, their families. understanding their achievements and making sure we have all of our information correct as well. And then getting into their stakes, getting into why are you competing, why do you want to be on the show, what will you do if you win? And that's kind of one of the big things that we do in pre-production is getting that all together so that when we get into the field and we get into interview on set, we know all the points that we need to touch on. to really get a good understanding of these people in as short a time as we can because every episode is usually no more than an hour. when you have, like in 24, you have 24 people to get through, you're really short on time. really being able to distill the essence of these people into easily digestible and communicative ways is really just super important in terms of... terms of getting to know the people that are going to be on the show. Madelyn (08:27) Right, okay, so for example, you've got a contestant who is a single mom who's doing this all for her daughter to show her that she's capable and can follow her dreams. So you establish that in casting, you establish that in pre, so that your producers, your story producers on set, when there's an opportunity, can go, what do think your daughter would think right now? Or what, you know what I mean? So that you can track that through and then she wins. And there's this moment where we ensure that we sort of close that loop, whether that be for, ⁓ I'm a single mom, or I am going to use this money to start my own restaurant. So you're establishing those stakes. You're seeing that story all the way through to the end and making sure that not only do you establish it on set with your questions and the things that you're asking and prompting, but in post as well. Is there anything else in pre-production that is super essential that you have to ensure is locked in before you guys get into production? Sebastien Basset (09:23) Getting all the documents and things prepared, we've got documents and spreadsheets and all these things that just need to be ready to go. The moment the cameras start rolling, we have to have all that stuff ready because you don't have time on a shoot day to screw around with Google Docs or Google Sheets or Excel or Dropbox or whatever it might be. So getting that all ready to go. Day one is probably the most important thing that I do in pre-production because it's not only me that's referencing the documents or using these documents. The showrunner is using the documents. The network is looking at the documents. Judges are sometimes looking at documents. We've got all these things that have to happen so quickly. once you're on set, your duties are different too. So you've got to wrangle these things that you did in pre-production plus all the additional things that happen on a rolling basis. set. Madelyn (10:15) Right, so you're establishing that blueprint so that you can track story when you're on set. I am such a spreadsheet person, so I love to see like how everyone does this differently. I mean, did you come in and this was sort of an established system that was set up and you just kind of get in there, you plug and play, or did you kind of create some of your own systems in shorthand that works for you? Sebastien Basset (10:38) Yeah, when I first started, we had a lot of templates and stuff that I started to use. the thing is, when you're working from somebody else's template, it doesn't always make sense in your head the same way. So even if it works for other people who are just looking at it, if you need to fill it out, you got to know what you're doing. And so over the last three years that I've been working on these shows, we're looking at almost 20 shows at this point. Madelyn (10:43) Sure. Sebastien Basset (11:04) I've really been working on kind of streamlining systems, making documents and spreadsheets that make sense, that are easy to use, easy to navigate for people who aren't the ones making them or aren't the ones filling them out. But yeah, the last show I worked on I got hired purely for organizational means, just so can be like, here, Sebastian, get in there into that Google Drive, throw in, make some documents and templates for us. And these are documents that I'm not even going to be using in the field. This is what other people are going to be using. So that's kind of an important, vitally important part of what I do. Madelyn (11:25) Yeah. Sebastien Basset (11:41) jumping into those shows completely blind. had not worked as an AP before I started working on these shows. I had not worked on set really before these shows. And so learning the format, learning the creative, and then obviously the format and creative can change from show to show and season to season of those shows. So every document needs to be tailored to what needs to be, what happens in the show, every beat of the show and so on. Madelyn (12:07) Yeah. What do you feel like? I mean, leading up to this, you said you hadn't had any AP experience. So what do you feel like in your past or in your education or just in your personality? makes you kind of the perfect person for this type of like systemic organization and attention to detail. Sebastien Basset (12:23) Like I'm planning a trip to Europe right now and I have like spreadsheets. have a custom Google map. I have all these things. Cancer. Madelyn (12:30) What's your sign? Okay, I was like, are you a Virgo? Because it's me all day. Okay, keep going. Sebastien Basset (12:37) Yeah, so I like to plan things out because I don't like to have to worry about these little things when I'm working, you know, and when I'm not the only one that's being affected by this, you know, on a personal vacation, you know, sure, if I have to deal with it, it's my problem. But if I'm on set and my stuff isn't working, then it's everybody's problem. You know, if something on my end goes wrong, I could hold up the whole production. And if I hold up the whole production, then, you know. When we're working on a time limit like we do, every single day on set is end to end, we're busy. So it's that, it's personal, it's my personality I think. I tend to try and be as organized as I can. But then I think it's also my education to a certain degree. I think college education is something that's important for somebody who is going into producing. It's not required, but it is helpful, I think, because it teaches you research skills, teaches you time management skills, organizational skills, writing skills. Obviously, as a producer, you're doing a lot of writing, and even as an associate producer, you do a lot of writing, and being able to communicate story, communicate personality, communicate everything that happens on set in a way that other people can understand is just paramount. especially when you're not going to be in post. So you're handing it off to people in post that are going to have to make sense of what you've written. And if you don't know how to write properly or organize anything, then you're basically saying good luck. Madelyn (14:07) Yes, I agree okay, so now we're on set. You've created these systems. You've got your spreadsheets and you're tracking everything from the personal stakes story arc with this contestant to the process of this chef to the dish drop of this chef Like you were tracking all of these things at once. For up to 24 contestants, mind you, at a time on 24 and 24, take your onset. Like what are you always looking for and what is always gonna grab your attention as well when it comes to like story, process, Sebastien Basset (14:45) it's not even watching so much as it is listening ⁓ Because they will often if something happens They'll say something and they might say it under their breath, but they've got mics and we can hear it You know if they swear if they you know if they curse under their breath or something. I immediately go, okay Yeah Madelyn (14:49) Mmm. Your ears are perked. Like, Sebastien Basset (15:06) And so Madelyn (15:06) what's going on? Sebastien Basset (15:08) learning everybody's voices very quickly is one of the things that I've come to be, okay, so then I know so-and-so said this, and when you have 24 people all in your ear all at the same time, you have to be able to laser focus in with your hearing on everybody's voices. So it's listening, I would say, almost more than watching because you can't watch 12 or 24 screens at a time. it's an active, it's not something that you can just sit there and be on your phone the whole time because you have to be for sometimes hours at a time, you know, flipping through screens, checking on what everybody's doing. And even if they're not saying anything, you have to be able to say, okay, they're just chopping the carrots now or they're, you They're putting their cake in the oven, whatever it might be. Madelyn (15:55) That is wild. I just imagine you sitting there like eyes closed and you're just like, George said, oh shit. Like something's happened. mean, but that's what you're right. You got to do the sound bites is there always something that's gonna sort of grab you, make you look, make you listen when it comes to a particular cast member or contestant that is always gonna feel compelling and grab your attention? Sebastien Basset (16:18) I think when we cast people, we look for people with very loud personalities, people who will catch your attention on screen. part of that is usually their personal story. But it's also how they interact with everyone else on screen. When we look at chefs or bakers that have strong personalities, sometimes those strong personalities do clash. And so we look for things, there's going to be a rivalry of some kind that pops up. And so as somebody who is a screenwriter, who is working in unscripted TV where we want the story most of all, latching onto rivalries that last whole season sometimes, know, ⁓ power struggles, that kind of thing, a team of people on a show, you have two strong personalities on that team. One of them might slip into a leadership role, naturally, and there might be somebody who wants to be the leader. And then you have that clash of who wants to follow the true leader or the self-appointed leader, for example. ⁓ Madelyn (17:15) Mm. Sebastien Basset (17:18) And so it's that kind of thing that we look for, that we listen for. Stories of people who are maybe a train wreck throughout most of the competition, but they slip through somehow and then they bring it all home in the end. ⁓ So identifying that, yeah. Madelyn (17:35) an underdog story. ⁓ Sebastien Basset (17:38) We identify stories as early as possible and start tracking them so that we know, ⁓ when we go into post or not me, but when other people go into post, I can say, look, this is where this started. We saw this, you know, ⁓ incident that happened here where they dumped their cake on the floor or whatever. And then we can draw those through lines through the whole season. ⁓ Because a lot of people look at these shows as being episode by episode, challenge by challenge. This is a competition. just... But the way we look at it... probably in a way the audience may not even realize is that we look at all these stories and we say, okay, whose stories do we focus on? Whose stories go all the way through the whole season? ⁓ Just string it together because the season is not some kind of ⁓ individual thing where everybody's just doing their own thing. some people watch for the baking, some people watch for the cooking, some people watch for drama, some people watch for just heartwarming stories of people survived cancer or hurricanes and then came here and started their businesses and immigrant stories and all these things. So a lot of what we look for is in the person and themselves and then once they're here we start saying, okay, so these people are friends, these people are nemeses, that kind of thing. Madelyn (19:09) Yeah, you're right. are interpersonal, you we establish the personal stakes, the professional stakes. Once you're on set, you're in a group, you're in a team, you're against each other. Suddenly we start getting into interpersonal dynamics, tracking those because a lot of these people have competed together before. Maybe they know of each other because they were both up for Michelin best of the South. they're, you know, the food culinary world is... It is actually pretty small. And so these people might have crossed paths before. And you're right, people just have different personalities. I think of like a Tiffany Faison and I don't know, Manitouan and how they just approach their work differently, have different personalities. Okay, so that's really neat. And you're also making notes too about the host, about the judges. So you're also listening for those moments as well, right? Sebastien Basset (20:06) Yeah. ⁓ important things when we get into judging is you know identifying the key points of critique key points of praise that a judge might have for a dish so that we know what to hone in on when when it gets into post ⁓ because judging is one of the things that takes a very long time out of the day ⁓ especially when we're going through on a baking championship we can go through as many as twelve or sixteen people in a single judging and if each judging Madelyn (20:28) That's right. Sebastien Basset (20:38) takes however many minutes, you're looking at hours of judging. we have Duff, we have Nancy, we have Cartier on holiday baking, they talk a lot. And it's so. Madelyn (20:54) Yeah. Sebastien Basset (20:57) Sometimes also one of things you pick out is you have to pick out a criticism from a praise. You know, when you're listening to some of these judgments, you have to be able to identify when they're actually veiling a critique as praise or as something neutral. Madelyn (21:04) Hmm. Sebastien Basset (21:16) And so when you're in the moment, you have to know what to hone in on, what to write down. Cause sometimes they'll talk about a personal story about how, my grandma used to make this too. So I really connect with, with this Baker's ⁓ thing. and that's, that's super fun for, for our story and stuff. but it's not really a judging comment. It's so, so tracking all that important stuff. Yeah. Madelyn (21:46) Well, and do you find that audiences, and you also have to distill that judgment down into a few comments that are going to make sense for the audience, but are also going to make sense for what probably is the impending judgment. So if you distill just all the nice things they said and that person ends up getting eliminated, the audience is left confused. And so you have to make sure that all of those pieces line up. And I find that audiences, I know, I've been locked into competition shows for forever, but like, they want honesty and there is a desire to like, yes, like be nice, but also like, you know, so it's interesting that you're like, judging goes on forever and ever and ever. We've got to distill it down into something that feels like it makes sense, is relevant, and also aligns with whatever the judgment is or the elimination is. Sebastien Basset (22:42) Yeah, at the end of the day, there is somebody that's going to win and that's somebody who's going to go home ⁓ almost every time. There's that kind of a thing that ends up happening. so a judge might have a lot of good to say, but they might be minor things. And they might have one thing that just does not gel with them. If they might say, your frosting is great. Your cake has great flavor. ⁓ but it's gummy and under baked, then all of a sudden, you know, the room falls silent and they know, well, yeah, you know, dramatic musical sting insert. ⁓ Madelyn (23:19) Mmm. The music starts. ⁓ Yeah, yeah, exactly. Sebastien Basset (23:28) Yeah, it's a matter of being able to, what we end up doing as APs when we're taking judging notes is we just basically transcribe everything that the judges say. ⁓ Because ultimately at the end of the day, we have to know, okay, well, if they ended up sending that person home, so we have to make sure that that's communicated, that we. we have that written down that we know why they decided to go that way. Madelyn (24:01) It's so fun. Also judges tend to like kind of embody a certain personality and a certain approach to the way that they judge. It reminds me of like old school American Idol where it's like you have the Randy, the Paula, the Simon. And while like the judging on food doesn't necessarily take the same approach, there is typically the like no nonsense. And then you have the like, I'm gonna like shower you with compliments and then I'm gonna tell you what you did wrong, but I hate doing it. you know, and then maybe someone in between. so you again, also ensuring that the feedback is like emblematic of that too. It's a lot of work. And so you pass, you keep these active notes, you're passing it to post. Is there then, and I'm sure there is, like what does this, back and forth with posts look like for clarity? Are you, are they asking more questions? Are you, or is your job sort of done once you've passed on the document and you're onto the next thing? Sebastien Basset (25:03) that much experience with post. I'll get messaged or emailed occasionally from producers or showrunners that are in post about a question about something that might be slightly unclear on a document or something. But for the most part, at least I like to think that I give them stuff that... ⁓ Madelyn (25:20) Yeah. Sebastien Basset (25:21) that they can just work off of it's good. And because we have post APs, we also, the show runner goes to post, we have producers or co-APs that go to post. And so when we're in the field, we look at the documents that we've created and we make sure that that's in line with the direction they wanna go ⁓ when they're cutting the show together. So it's a constant, there's overlap on every stage of people who are in pre-pro who go into the field and then people who are in the field who go to post. So not everybody goes everywhere, but everybody is affected by what everyone else does. Madelyn (26:04) Mm-hmm. And another, so once these episodes start to take shape, another thing that you're in charge of is the hot sheet. So talk to me about at what point in the process are you developing these hot sheets? Who's the audience for them? Is it executives? it your EPs? And how have your hot sheets evolved over time to where they're the hot, sheets? Sebastien Basset (26:33) Hot sheets, we try and for efficiency's sake and for our mental health, we try and get these done by the time we're done shooting an episode. So we kind of fill it out as we go. ⁓ We take away key judging comments, we take away key moments from a challenge. If somebody dropped a cake, we put that in there and we say, so-and-so dropped a cake at this time. ⁓ And so that's part of it. ⁓ As for who looks at it, it's a lot of posts. So we have a lot of notes to post in there about, ⁓ we did a pickup of something with... with the host or, you know, so there's technical stuff like that, or if we needed to reshoot some B-roll or something, we put that in there too. So it's a combination of kind of technical stuff as well as story stuff. And the way we formulate it is we basically have a sort of a page per contestant that ends up becoming three pages per contestant because, so the hot sheet is more like a hot booklet or a hot Madelyn (27:38) Mmm, okay. Of course. Sebastien Basset (27:47) home by the time we're done with it. ⁓ But yeah, showrunners. Madelyn (27:48) Mm-hmm. Right. Sebastien Basset (27:52) are looking at it, Co-EPs are looking at it, producers are looking at it to refer back when they're in an interview to something that might have happened before to bring it through and say, oh, you know, your cake failed on challenge one, but you did a great job in challenge two. So how do you feel about that? And because the producers themselves are themselves interviewing, you know, three, four, five, sometimes more contestants, they have to be able to refer back to our documents in the field in the moment to be able to say, So your judging went really well, you know, and your cake looks really good, you know, how do feel about that or vice versa, you know, you did your kit, the judges really slammed your cake. And so how do feel about that? Madelyn (28:29) Mm-hmm. Yeah, you struggled with time management in challenge two. This one is all about doing something in a short amount of time. Okay, wonderful. And so it's not a singular sheet. It is many, many sheets. Sebastien Basset (28:46) Yeah. Yeah, I just like doing one sheet on. cast members in pre-production and casting. It's almost never just one page because there's so much to get through. ⁓ But yeah, the hot sheet has evolved over time. We've tried to make it so that it's as easy as possible for people to see it in post. And ⁓ for example, executives want to know what happened. If they're not on set, they want to know like, what's happening. And if they're overseeing this show, they want to know everything that happened in that episode, everything that Madelyn (29:14) Yeah. Sebastien Basset (29:22) happen in that challenge. And so it's on me, it's on the other APs to make sure that we give that information to people in a way that they're going to be like, hey, wait a minute, we have nothing that happened in this episode. What happened? And obviously every time there's something that happens. There's never nothing that happens. So communicating that in a way that sparks their imagination and sparks their, ⁓ this is going to be a good show is really important. Madelyn (29:51) Yes, we have to make everyone excited and happy because it takes so much work. It takes so much time. What you mentioned, you know, I mean, what are some super surprising or kind of wild moments you've witnessed on set that, like, as you're listening in, kind of made you go, like, made your jaw drop a little bit? Have there been any? Sebastien Basset (30:10) I mean, every episode there's something, you know? There's somebody who gets frustrated, who wants to quit, or, you know, and so talking people, producers are usually out on the floor talking to them during challenges to get them to talk about what they're doing, and if anything goes wrong, to elaborate on what's going wrong. ⁓ And so, so. Madelyn (30:28) Mm-hmm. Sebastien Basset (30:36) I mean, it's pretty funny to hear some of the things that people say under their breath that never makes the cut, you know? Somebody might have an extreme potty mouth and it's like, well, we can only afford three bleeps this episode, so we're gonna have to cut away from that person during this challenge. ⁓ But yeah, and the moment, I think the biggest thing that I hear that is just like... Madelyn (30:49) Mm-hmm. Right. Sebastien Basset (31:02) I don't want to say it makes me happy to hear it because it doesn't, but it makes me like, this is going to be good. Anytime somebody just like their face drops and they're just like, uh-oh, like I did something wrong and you know it, they know it. The camera operator pans down, you see it and you get that connecting shot of their reaction. You get the connecting shot of whatever it is they're doing and you're like, okay, well something bad happened. Madelyn (31:30) We burn the biscuits. Sebastien Basset (31:32) Yeah, we burned the biscuits. We forgot baking powder. ⁓ know, something got burned and there's only 10 minutes left in this challenge. So I have to serve this ⁓ to the judges whether they like it. Madelyn (31:46) It would, I would, I'm not gonna lie. I would cry. Like just because there is so, there's high stakes, everyone's putting themselves out there, they're on camera. Like I would have such a hard time if like having secondhand embarrassment, secondhand anxiety and getting emotional ⁓ if someone just like totally dropped a dish, burned it, whatever. I would. I would have to really go into work mode and I'm sure you're used to this, but it would be tough not to kind of take on those emotions, you know, because it is very real for these people. Sebastien Basset (32:24) Yeah, for me and for the people in the control room and the camera operators and stuff, this is a day of work. know, we show up, know, we grab our coffee, you know, we clock into the office and that's what we're there for. For these people, sometimes these are people who have never competed before, people who are seeing this as an opportunity to change their lives. ⁓ And so the pressure is really high on them, even though we're just here to document it. Madelyn (32:42) Mm-hmm. Sebastien Basset (32:54) So it's hard sometimes to be like, man, feel so bad for that person because they have such a great story. have, like you gave an example, a single mom running a bakery out of their house, selling Christmas cookies and stuff, and they want to be able to open a store in their hometown and the money that they win would be so great. And then you just see them totally just nosedive in a challenge. you're like, unless somebody does Madelyn (33:21) Mm-hmm. Sebastien Basset (33:24) something really bad, that person's going to be going home. Madelyn (33:28) Right. I remember I chatted with the showrunner and EP of Chopped, Amy Sanford. And I remember her saying like, this is we come and we clock in and this is work for us. But for the contestants, this is sometimes once in a lifetime. And we have to ensure that we are matching that energy and also, you know, at the end of the day, protecting them in a way and making sure we bring our best to the set. And, you know, it's so true. I love that she pointed that out. ⁓ Who, okay, who or what are you most thankful for when you're deep in a show? Sebastien Basset (34:06) I think I would have to see the showrunners because the level of competency that we see in our showrunners on these shows is so high. They know these shows inside and out. They know every beat. They know everything that needs to happen and when to have it. ⁓ So having that kind of leadership is just... When you're working on a set and you have somebody who clearly is not suited for that position, everybody feels it and everybody knows it. And everybody whispers about it and the morale drops and people start, departments rebel, you know. And you've got camera operators going rogue, ⁓ whatever it might be. And so when you have such strong leadership in a show runner and or in just any executive producers or co-EPs, ⁓ Madelyn (34:49) Ha Sebastien Basset (35:03) It's really something that you appreciate and you don't... I've had so much luck in that on these shows, the showrunners and EPs and co-EPs and everybody is so good at what they do and also not... and it's also a matter of being kind and being considerate as a leader because, you know, we always hear horror stories about a showrunner or something that is just a total dick or whatever it might be. and people don't want to work with them, nobody has any fun. ⁓ a good showrunner is somebody who knows the show inside and out, also understands the needs and ⁓ comfort levels of everybody who's working on the show. so I'm, like I said, I'm so lucky that all the showrunners I've worked with have been so competent and so kind. And it's really a community, because a lot of the same people work on all the shows that I work on. A lot of them for some... Madelyn (35:59) Right. Sebastien Basset (36:01) 10, 15 years. So I'm a relative newcomer to this. And so being able to be brought into the fold that way, I guess is a broader thing that I'm thankful for on set is being a part of this little community of misfits that have all come together to create these elaborate shows that shouldn't really not work, but somehow we make it work every time. Madelyn (36:28) And we, we the people thank you for it because we need these shows specifically are such a sure we can glean recipes and inspiration from them, but they really, especially the holiday themed ones are such a form of escapism and ⁓ a pocket of happiness for so many people. And, you know, it's that doesn't come, that's not by accident. It doesn't come easy. It comes at, you know, because of a lot of hard work. ⁓ So I love that. Shout out to the showrunners. ⁓ If your role were a dish at a Thanksgiving dinner, what would it be? Sebastien Basset (37:07) All right. way I like to think about my role is something that people don't really notice is gone until it's gone. And so I want to say like, people think maybe gravy. feel like I feel like Madelyn (37:24) Yes. I love that answer. Sebastien Basset (37:27) Because like you can't have Thanksgiving without a turkey obviously and you can't have Thanksgiving without stuffing. can't have Thanksgiving without mashed potatoes, green beans, cranberry sauce, whatever it might be. But if you don't have any gravy, you're gonna notice it. And your turkey's gonna, you know, unless you cook your turkey very well, know, turkey's gonna be dry. Yeah. So, so that's, I think that's good way of saying it. Cause I like to say I'm the, Madelyn (37:42) Yes. Turkey's gonna be dry. It goes on the mashed potatoes. I love that. Sebastien Basset (37:57) the dispensable indispensable as an AP. As in, it seems like anybody could do my job, but if you have somebody in there who doesn't know what they're doing, you're gonna be like, crap, I wish we had somebody there that knew what they were doing. ⁓ Because it's a difficult, know, nobody on set is dispensable, but some roles are roles that you don't realize are so important. until you have the wrong person in that role or nobody in that role. I did a show this year ⁓ where I was the only AP. Normally we have two, sometimes three APs ⁓ and we were managing so much and everything fell on my shoulders. so somebody, not to toot my own horn, but as somebody of less experience or less organizational skill. would probably not have thrived under those circumstances and stepped up the way that I like to think I did. ⁓ So again, like the gravy, it's the gravy. it brings everything together. Madelyn (39:03) It makes, it brings everything together. No, if there's a time to toot your horn, it's this. You have so much experience under your belt. I think anyone who works on these shows understands what a critical role yours is. And, you know, there's so many people who listen to this podcast, who are trying to break into the industry, who are at the PA level, who are maybe at the mid level. But your goal is obviously always, like you're working your way through the roles, just personally and professionally, like how have you ensured that you are always getting that call to come back? Like what are some Sebastian sort of ⁓ like principles for you when it comes to your work? Sebastien Basset (39:47) be pleasant, be kind, be understanding, and don't be demanding. ⁓ There are people who sometimes get into a producing role and they start to think that they're the king of the castle and that every department needs to bend to their will. And I think that it's true for producing, I think it's true for every level, is that don't... don't ask too much of anybody because everybody has their own concerns. The 80s have their own concerns, cameras have their own concerns, wardrobe, hair, makeup, everybody has stuff that they have to do. so making your being on set and not being a burden to anybody is really vital and being nice to everybody. that's the first thing, is I try and be as pleasant to work with as I can. ⁓ And that can be difficult because when you're in a high stress, high pressure, fast paced environment like on any set, people's personality comes through. It's like truth serum. It's like when you get drunk, your true personality can shine through. And if you're a nice person, you gotta stay nice. And if you're... not a nice person, well, I guess you probably won't get hired for the next season. But beyond that, it's just really, as an associate producer specifically, learning the creative and knowing the show as well as the show runner does, to the best of your ability, is always a plus. ⁓ And obviously maybe a PA doesn't need to know that, but anybody who wants to be in this industry has to be willing to work long hours for not great pay and be willing to put their whole into everything that they do and never do anything poorly. If you do something poorly and you have to hand it off to somebody, they're going to notice that you did it poorly and they're going to be like, well, what the heck is this? And so that's why organizational skills from my role is so important for every document that I make. I know somebody else is going to have to use it. ⁓ But yeah, so kindness, ⁓ competency is always good and always don't be afraid to ask for help as well if you really do need help something, help with something. You know, I have, like I said earlier, I have such compassionate EPs and show runners who understand that they're asking so much of us and sometimes it can be a little short, you know, because we just, have to get going, we have to do these things. but always circling back and saying, you this is, you're doing great work, you know, so positive reinforcement too, whether you're a high level person or a low level person. If you see somebody doing something that's, that's, that is good, ⁓ you know, give them props for it. And also like, if you see something that can be improved, try and improve it. It won't always be, it won't always work, but if you see something that you want to improve and you can improve it then. then everybody's happy that you did. And if it doesn't work, then they look at you and they say, well, that didn't work, but thanks for the idea. know, ⁓ whether it's, yeah, initiative is so important. Madelyn (43:05) Take the initiative. I love that. I love that. Is there a dish, you've seen hundreds, is there a dish or a dessert from a show that you will never forget? I know you don't get to taste them, but is there just something that's stuck out to you? Sebastien Basset (43:22) I know why it's so difficult because again, I've worked on going on 20 seasons of all these shows over the last three years. So I don't know if there's any one particular dish, but it's always incredible to see the talent level of these people. These chefs are Michelin star, they're James Beard award winners, they're restaurateurs, they're consultants. And then what's most impressive to me is the stay at home mom or the home baker, the home chef. that brings it through in a way that blows away every cordon bleu pastry instructor that is out there, you know? Because it's not a matter of like, this person has a Michelin star, they're going to win. That's absolutely not the case because we had a home baker win holiday baking championship last season, Stephen Levitt from, I believe, Canada. And everybody was like, holy crap, he beat culinary instructors from the best. ⁓ institutes in America and Canada and people who have been doing this for so long. And this is a guy who's like, yeah, I started baking when I, during COVID he went on to win that season. And so more than a dish, it's really seeing these people working at such a high level under such adverse conditions, you know, low on sleep, high on caffeine and just. Madelyn (44:46) You Sebastien Basset (44:47) pushing through with cameras in their face and still putting out consistently amazing desserts that blow the judges away and I think blow the audiences away too. Madelyn (44:58) Yeah, it's really cool to see. Do you have any set day rituals? Sebastien Basset (45:03) I don't if I've called it a ritual, but I think showing up for work every morning and getting breakfast is like the first thing that I do. You know, I grab a cup of tea, grab some breakfast. We have a... Yeah, I'm a tea person. No coffee. Although on some days I'll slam a Celsius, yeah. Yeah, I've never liked it. I don't know. Madelyn (45:14) No, you're a tea person. No coffee? I'm shocked. You just don't like the taste? Interesting, tea is so sophisticated. What, like a black tea, a green tea? Sebastien Basset (45:33) Yeah, I love an English breakfast, Earl Grey, you know? Milk, sugar, milk and honey. Milk and honey, Yeah, grab my tea. We're so lucky on these shows too. Like I forgot to say this when you were asking me what I'm thankful for, but we have such great catering on these shows. The production team has gotten us consistently such great caterers that are not only like Madelyn (45:35) Okay, very sophisticated. Cream and sugar? Okay, okay, okay, so you grab your tea, go ahead. ⁓ yeah. Sebastien Basset (46:02) making great food, but they're also like really nice. And it makes every lunch and every breakfast something that we look forward to so much. Cause you know, after you, yeah. Yeah. Madelyn (46:12) It's so, it's pleasant. These are long days. it's so, it's again, another unsung hero in production, Craft Services, 100%. Sebastien Basset (46:20) Yeah, crap services and catering, you know, when, the, when the production budget runs tight and all they've got there is, ⁓ you know, some mixed mix, checks, mix or whatever. It's like, people start talking, you know, you've got mutiny on your hands. ⁓ but yeah, when you, when you work for six hours straight and it's time for lunch and you get out there and everybody can take a load off for half an hour or an hour. It's, crazy. ⁓ but yeah. Madelyn (46:33) Right. Sebastien Basset (46:50) breakfast, tea, and then getting right into it. We start early in the morning, we start shooting, and once we start shooting, it's just thing after thing after thing. We run a tight ship and it's got a tight schedule. ⁓ in a way, making the shows themselves is a ritual because it's a repetitive process, but you get into a groove. Madelyn (47:11) Mmm. Yeah, that, mean, yes, that makes a lot of sense. The production, the day in and of itself is a ritual. There's a lot of people in this industry who are following personal passions outside of like what their quote unquote day job is. I know that you mentioned you're a screenwriter. What's your advice to anyone who's, you know, doing their day desk job, pursuing it wholeheartedly, but also you know, writing on the side, directing on the side. ⁓ What would be your advice to them? Sebastien Basset (47:46) Yeah, I work with so many people that are filmmakers, are writers, that are actors, and that work on these shows, you know, as their primary gig, but that do these things on the side. And I think ⁓ my best advice to those people is just to keep going, keep doing it, keep working, keep creating, ⁓ and try and take moments of time that you aren't doing anything to just kind of like reflect and have moments of peace because When you're on set, you're surrounded by 100 people on these shows at all times. We literally have 100 people working on set sometimes. And it's a constant noise, it's constant everything, and it can drown out your thoughts. And so I think taking time for your thoughts and taking time to relax is so important as a creative As somebody like me who's a scripted guy working in Unscripted, I try and learn from my interactions by listening to people. One of the things that screenwriters like to say that they do is they like to just listen to people talk, listen to the way people talk, the way they interact, watch them. ⁓ So if you're a screenwriter, for example, and you're working in this kind of industry, ⁓ it's great to just watch how people behave and learn from that. If you're not a screenwriter necessarily or if you don't even work in television, unscripted or otherwise, ⁓ keep going. Just keep making. I forget who said it, but somebody said that everything that you do, has to feel like you would die if you wouldn't do it. So every script, every script you write, any story, a book, an acting role, a play, a movie that you want to direct, Madelyn (49:27) you Sebastien Basset (49:36) anything that you do, you have to feel that passion for it. ⁓ And keeping that passion alive when you're working 12, 14 hour days on set is difficult, know, because when you get home, you don't have time or energy to sit down and write. ⁓ And because of the nature of this industry, people are often out of work for weeks or months at a time between gigs. ⁓ And so I think making the most of that time is really important. Any actor, director, filmmaker, writer, any of that. So make the most of the time that you have free ⁓ to pursue those personal passion projects. Madelyn (50:15) I love that, great advice. It can be tough too because you're stressed out about getting the next gig. It can be hard to access creativity when you do that. But I have so many people in my life that I've had to be like, you are either in a state of exhaustion or panic and you can't live there. And you've got to figure out a way to live in the in-between and use those quiet moments for yourself. So I think that's great advice. Thank you so much for coming on today. Thank you so much for chatting and giving your insights into just what it takes, what you do on a day-to-day basis. You have certainly gotten your 10,000 hours and it's just really cool to hear more about what you do. just another unsung role. The gravy, as we say on set, that we all know is so critical. So thank you so much for coming on and sharing. Thanks. Sebastien Basset (51:06) you, thank you. Madelyn (51:13) Thanks so much for listening to my chat with Sebastian. Really cool just to hear about his journey. Like everyone who works on a team knows how critical a really good associate producer is. So really interesting to talk to him about all of his work on all those incredible shows. Thank you so much again for listening. And we have a new Monday mini-sode with Emily Wilson full of unscripted news dropping Monday. listen. Thanks so much. Have a nice weekend.