Cyle Zezo (00:00) The number of Americans who do not believe that climate change is happening is only 13 percent, which is Right. It's like a super majority who want to see action on this. And yet our shows. And in a lot of cases, our own personal actions, our corporate actions, our, whatever our systemic actions, they're not representing or reflecting that. Madelyn (00:09) Mm-hmm. Cyle Zezo (00:22) desire or demand. Madelyn (00:29) Hey, welcome to the Unscripted Files. My name is Madelyn Cunningham. I am a development producer in the unscripted industry, bringing you candid conversations with the minds behind your favorite form of entertainment. Today we have a former network executive who has turned his sights on how we can have a more sustainable industry. He's the founder of Reality of Change. which focuses on how we can bring sustainable programming and practices on the screen, behind the scenes in our productions, and how we can also uplift sustainable initiatives within our production companies and as individuals. It's insightful, it's necessary, So I really hope you enjoy this conversation with the founder of Reality of Change, Cyle Zezo Madelyn (01:15) Hey Cyle welcome to the Unscripted Files. How you doing? Cyle Zezo (01:18) I'm doing well. Thanks for having me. How are you? Madelyn (01:20) I'm really good. I'm so excited to chat with you. We met, I don't know, maybe two years ago at RealScreen and got to connect. I want to say you were still at the CW as an executive. And so we were just, you know, chit chatting about programming and sustainability. And so so happy that I get to have you on to talk about reality of change. Cyle Zezo (01:41) Yeah, I'm super excited to be here. yeah, think when we first met, it was kind of right at that cusp for me when I was sort of transitioning over from CW into this new role. And you were actually at the first presentation I ever gave on sustainability in unscripted television. And I remember being... Madelyn (02:02) Mm-hmm. Cyle Zezo (02:05) I'd never talked about it. I was still workshopping a lot of these ideas and I had never talked about it publicly. So you were in that audience when I was like, I gave like a master class, but I was like, remember being like super nervous and none of it had been tested and like the presentation stopped working. And like, so I just had to kind of go off the cuff. It was like a whole thing. But you were there right from the beginning of it all. Madelyn (02:29) Yes, well, and it was just wonderful to see you sort of like step off the ledge and chase that. And it's cool because you've really created your current job, which is a callback to, you know, I know your first jobs out of high school was like going door to door for the environment, something you've always been passionate about that you have, you know, over a decade of experience on the network exec side. And you saw this need to implement sustainability in our productions for reality. So Cyle Zezo (02:34) Yes. Madelyn (02:57) You know, we met at that kind of moment you were starting to roll, when can you remember when you the light bulb sort of clicked on for you and you were like, this is what I need to do next. Cyle Zezo (03:07) It's a great question and I would love to point to a light bulb moment, right? Where it was kind of the obvious thing. I guess there was a period where it crossed sort of a tipping point, if you will, and it just sort of cascaded from there. But it really was a process. And even at the time, when we were having our conversation afterward and... and you know, you were talking about kind of the unscripted work that you were getting into and the documentary that you were working on. at, at that period, I still had not decided to launch reality of change. think it was, it was sort of an initiative in my brain. It's like, like this thing we can do, but it wasn't really like an organization or, really formalized in any way. And it goes back. Part of the reason I like working in television is. you are speaking to audiences and your goal is to entertain, but everything you put out there has an impact. And at the very least, I've always wanted to put out programming that is not having a negative impact, but if possible, entertaining while also having a positive impact. And so we did that through, at the CW, we did that through a number of mechanisms. It wasn't really focused on sustainability. But as you mentioned, sustainability has always been a big part of how I've been thinking about this and something that's like loom large as something we should be talking about. And we tested a few things and we can go into this more, but we were testing things at the CW. We were kind of working on this in really subtle ways behind the scenes. It wasn't like a big mandate. It wasn't like a big program or anything, but I was already kind of workshopping it there. Madelyn (04:36) Mm. Cyle Zezo (04:43) And when I left the network, I had been engaged with the sustainability sector in Hollywood. And it just, this was an area, unscripted television in particular, where there was so much opportunity and so much need and so much desire for action, but no one really like corralling that momentum and directing it in a place where it could have a lot of collective success, I guess. And so eventually that led to that tipping point, which allowed reality of change to come into existence. Madelyn (05:16) It's really incredible. And I think something as opposed to sort of the studio system and scripted and unscripted is so diverse. you have, mean, there's just like production companies of all sizes all over the place doing lots of different types of productions across genres. So I know that there was a huge need, but I'm sure that formalizing that and trying to create a roadmap was challenging. But once you really put it out there, were you surprised by how you were embraced by the industry? Cyle Zezo (05:46) Yes and no. wasn't, because our plan was to go out to companies rather than focusing on individuals. Like obviously it's a lot of individuals in this effort and individuals within the companies who are championing it and doing really great work. But I didn't know what to expect from kind of like the corporate business world and I had had hints that there was an appetite for it because of the conversations I'd been having with producers and other executives and, you know, business owners. And so I knew that there was an openness to it. But we, guess when we did go out with it, yeah, I had a, we had a bigger uptake than I expected, you know, that we did a task force in 2024. And that's how, know, you mentioned a roadmap. We have a pledge. that we developed. We developed it with this task force. This group was 30 production companies. When we initially set out, Reality of Change partnered with Rare, and it was one of the first things Reality of Change did. Rare is an environmental nonprofit that also works with the entertainment industry. And we were like, it'd be great to get a small group of production companies together. Maybe we'll have like five, six, seven, eight. We were like, that'll be nice, but let's cast a white net and see who says yes. And then we were really surprised because almost everybody said, yes, we ended up with 30 production companies. There were a few who couldn't join, but even the ones who couldn't join were supportive of it. were re, you know, they were swamped or they were going through things as a business or what have you. There were reasons they couldn't join, but, but we didn't face any opposition or anybody naysaying really. was, it was, it was pretty ubiquitous. And yeah, I think it goes to show that, know, there's, when you bring people together and whether it's companies or individuals or whatnot, we start to see that we're actually really aligned on a lot more things than we realize and that there's a lot that we can get done together. And I think it sort of like breeds this like additional excitement and motivation. And we really. really saw that. So I guess in a way, maybe I was shocked, but not surprised at the general level of support overall. Yeah. Madelyn (07:55) Sure. That's so cool. I mean, so what does it look like? You you were saying some companies, you know, couldn't quite commit, but we're super supportive. So when someone does make this pledge with reality of change, what does that look like when a company aligns with you formally? Cyle Zezo (08:11) It's interesting because there's so many different ways to be involved in what we're doing. The pledge was something that was a reality of change and Rare shepherded it. But it was really something that was kind of designed in large part by the producers and the representatives from these companies that were involved in it. And so when you sign the pledge, we provide different tools and resources. We're continuing to work on those tools and resources and evolve them. And we have some services that will provide to, you know, kind of help move the process along and fill in the gaps where, you know, everybody's under resourced right now. So if there's ways that we can help think about things that maybe the team doesn't have the time or the wherewithal to take on, we'll step in and help with that. But the pledge itself, is something that can be adapted to every company's individual circumstances. It has three pillars. One is focused on the onscreen piece, which we think is super important. You know this, but audiences are actually way more engaged in climate and want to see more climate action than most people realize. There's a bunch of stats on this, like the latest data out of... Yale shows that I think it's like seven in 10 Americans accept the reality of climate change. And a stat from a couple of years ago from Rare showed that seven in 10 Americans also want to see more climate aligned, climate friendly actions on the, in the entertainment that they're watching. So we know the audiences want this, but then you have these other stats which apply just as much to entertainment as to anybody else where, you know, people are way underestimating the level of support in the US, because we're not talking about it. We're not talking about it enough. It's getting better. I think it's like most people assume that it's like 30, 35, 40%, somewhere in that ballpark of other Americans who believe in climate change and care about this, when the reality is that it's 70 to 80 % of Americans. we're not even trying to convince Americans of the climate. Madelyn (09:49) Right. interesting. Cyle Zezo (10:13) crisis anymore. The number of Americans who do not do not believe that climate change is happening is only 13 percent, which is insane. Right. It's like a super majority who want to see action on this. And yet our shows. And in a lot of cases, our own personal actions, our corporate actions, our, whatever our systemic actions, they're not representing or reflecting that. Madelyn (10:24) Mm-hmm. Cyle Zezo (10:37) desire or demand. anyway, sorry, I got away from it. the pledge has three pillars. It has the audience pillar. We want to showcase solutions. We want to respond to that audience demand. It has a production pillar, which is all about making our walking the walk, making our own productions more efficient, reducing waste and whatnot. And then there's an industry pillar, which I am in love with, which is basically production companies will commit to continuing to engage on this with their peers, continue to give us feedback so we can keep supporting them. And then also internally, in that same pillar, internally they'll support people on their productions, people on their staff who also want to champion this and want to kind of lead on it internally. So lift people up and allow leaders to emerge in various capacities on the sustainability front. So it's kind of... broadly written so that everybody, you we had companies of so many different sizes who are working on so many different shows. There's the realities of the businesses for each of these companies. It's just vastly different between them. So we didn't want to lock in something that was so specific that it like wasn't actionable. We wanted to do something that was malleable to the realities of each circumstance. Madelyn (11:46) Mm-hmm. Well, yes, 100%. I think that's the best way to get involvement. think when it comes trying to be environmentally aware, sustainable, as an individual, know this, it can feel like it's very all or nothing. that, you know, like you kind of have, there's this like, well, if I'm going to do this, if I'm going to reduce single use plastics I need to do it across the board. have to do it everywhere in my life or else I... Cyle Zezo (12:04) Yeah. Madelyn (12:16) I am going to get shamed. And if I do that, I also need to do all these things. So there's this, so I can see how companies can feel like, oh my gosh, well, if I can't do it all, I just can't commit. So the fact that you have something that feels flexible, approachable, educational is really cool. three pillars is wonderful. So let's use that as like a roadmap for the conversation. So on screen, sustainable. Cyle Zezo (12:18) Yeah. Yeah. Great. Madelyn (12:40) narratives and initiatives into programming, into existing storylines, seeing opportunities where these things can be showcased as part of what you do. Can you give some examples of sort of not only at what part of the process you sort of come in, but then also, you know, just examples of, what you can do or, or how others can implement this or successes that you've seen. Cyle Zezo (12:57) you Yeah, totally. The beauty of unscripted is there's, first of all, there's so many different areas we work in, right? So many different kind of sub-genres. And a lot of those sub-genres naturally intersect with... areas where we need to see kind of big changes in how we approach sustainability. So food, know, food and cooking shows, huge and unscripted. There's a lot we can do on in those with what we're seeing on screen. Home renovation, massive even, you know, fashion. you had a fashion documentary, right? So it's like, and I know it wasn't explicitly. Madelyn (13:31) Huge. Yeah. Cyle Zezo (13:45) about climate change, it kind of was, right? So I'm curious, like, your experience with that. Madelyn (13:51) Yeah, mean, for us, our particular documentary was about the toxins in your clothes. The main focus was how it affects your health, because unfortunately, 70 % of our textiles are made up of plastics, which are composed of BPA, which has 13,000 chemicals, only half of which have been studied, and they're all vastly understudied. And so if you think about putting a patch on your body, putting lotion on your body, that absorption, you know, we were sort of going, there's absolutely something here when you sweat in your clothes, your, you know, your body temperature is elevated in your clothes, your leggings and hot yoga, like there's links here and we found them and it was really fascinating. You know, but the other side to that is that all of our clothes are put in the trash. our environment. we're finding textiles and microplastics in our ocean life. most of it is contributed not by plastic straws, but by clothing. And so that was the exploration for what I did. And it opened my eyes in a massive way. Cyle Zezo (14:55) That's amazing. And it's like you hit on so many things because it's like, you're telling a story about an issue. So yours is what I would classify. We have a framing device like ABCs of climate storytelling, right? And so like an A story is something that's all about kind of climate. so even though it's not technically officially about climate, it's all these things that impact climate and ecosystems and these crises that sort of fall under this umbrella. You know, you're talking about pollution, you're talking about the plastic crisis and microplastics, you're talking about health, pollution. There's so much that, I'm sure there's like a bit, especially with fashion and everything going into this, there's also a big emissions piece of that. So there's so many things that cross over there. And I think that that is a big takeaway for Unscripted is we already have these stories. we are already talking about these things. So even if it's not an A story, even if it's not all about it, if you have a fashion show, that's like a competition show, you can weave these things in throughout that. You can weave it in in challenges, you can weave it in in the people you cast, you know, just bringing in like factoids and tidbits, even in the practices that you implement as like kind of rules of the show, that can all help to shift norms in the ways that audiences Madelyn (15:57) Mm-hmm. Cyle Zezo (16:16) wants like they no one wants to be like filled with microplastics like that is not we don't want to destroy our our rivers and our oceans and our you know our natural area like this is not something that like americans are like cheering on in itself and so if there are ways to call attention to it and also to model solutions ⁓ there are so many avenues and unscripted to do that Madelyn (16:17) Totally. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Totally. It would be, you for me, I just, didn't know if your clothes stretch, it is because of plastic, because natural fiber, wool, cotton, you know, and so it'd be so easy to just have a section on Project Runway or on Next Gen Fashion, Fashion Star, that's like a designer talking about just the functionality of fabric. and how like you like, and it would be, it would feel very organic, but it also is like kind of a light bulb moment for us to go, I did not know that polyester acetate nylon, you know, is essentially just plastic. Like I had no idea. And so you're right. There are so many opportunities because there's real conversations happening on these shows to weave it in. that's, it's so interesting that you guys do that. And so at what point, you know, I know that you, Cyle Zezo (17:05) Yeah. Yeah. Madelyn (17:29) You are working with production companies. You're also consulting. So when, when do you typically sort of come in and look at the opportunity and sort of advise on, how you can amplify a little bit. Cyle Zezo (17:43) If it's a direct consult, the earlier the It's really hard to, especially in a format where things get really baked in, it can be hard to reverse course once everybody has agreed on how something is going to work. So as early as possible, when the underlying structure or creative is still being formed. That's ideally when we come in. there are opportunities at every stage. Like we've come in the day before something is shooting and you know, we can, there's many things we can do at that point. We can look at like what's being shot and just like help reframe, you know, some of the host talking points or some of the, you know, questions that are posed with, you know, in the onscreen, in the context of the show. And you know exactly to your point that you made about like that little tidbit like if we can just like people want takeaway from unscripted television in many cases they cut that something you couldn't do the same thing in a scripted show you could but you'd have to have to make it witty or like the character would have to be a little quirky or something to just like spill out some fact like that like that you can do it like I don't want to dismiss the power of scripted television but in unscripted people want that like Madelyn (18:37) Yes. Mm-hmm. No, but like, this is the world of HGTV and Food Network Stand and Stir. Like that is why we seek it out. So you're totally right. We wanna take away. Cyle Zezo (18:57) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we want that takeaway. And so, you know, if we can weave that into something, even if it's later in the game, like a soundbite like that can be really powerful. Something else that we look at a lot is casting. And we're leaning into this more and more. We're actually trying to develop more around it because the reality is that we talked about this, that 70 % of Americans accept the reality of climate change. I'd wager that 100 % of them have something that they love that's going to be impacted by it. People have lifestyles that already align with sustainability, even if they don't think of it that way. It could be their health, could be, you know, this is more overt, but it could be like reducing their waste, could be plant-based. Like there's so many lifestyle alignments that like if we just know about them, we can help surface them in the creative context of the show. People have careers that overlap with climate. There are people who have been directly impacted. If they're the survivor of a climate-fueled natural disaster, for example, if we wanna have a package where we're like on a, if someone like that appears on a singing competition show, you can have a package with their background. We do this all the time anyway. And it's a really important and emotionally compelling story that can be lifted up and sort of just, normalize the fact that this is the reality for people throughout America. There's so many ways in, you know, and the casting piece is something where even if you've already cast, even if we're not casting for it, because everybody has some sort of connection, most likely, we can look at the creative of the show. We can look at what the values are of someone who's appearing on the show, and we can work with the producers, the talent producers, to maybe see if there are certain questions that can be posted to them in the interviews. that could then surface in show. So there's just so many potential ways in. And because of that, I think we can come in at any stage, but again, early respect. Madelyn (21:00) Yeah, always. No, think of like, you know, there's a design show on HBO called The Hype, the winner, I think, I want to say of season one. You know, he was known for like taking, did you watch that show? Like taking quilts and taking blankets, Justin, and he like would make, you know, so there's, that would have been in my brain, I'm like, I know that that's something you guys, you know, could look for, or if it's a culinary show, someone who is like really good at taking things that are typically food waste. And, you know, Cyle Zezo (21:10) Yeah. Yep, just happened on Next Gen Chef on Netflix. Yeah. Madelyn (21:27) It did, I loved that challenge. it was so, again, it was so, it felt natural, organic, very real because it was real to, you know, several of the chef contestants were like, I do this all the time because in my restaurant, we prioritize this or in my own personal chef sort of mantra, like this is how I embody it. And it was a wonderful segment, There was like pineapple skin and like. Cyle Zezo (21:49) Yeah. Yeah. Madelyn (21:51) all these cool things it inspired me to just even in my own cooking to be like, okay, how can we really make sure you're using the end of the carrots, putting it in a broth bag, you know, taking the chicken bones, I loved the creativity, but I also was like, I felt very compelled to also try to look for the solutions in my own kitchen, which is, yeah. Cyle Zezo (22:01) Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Madelyn (22:10) And not like, you know, something that felt approachable and it wasn't like this huge, I don't know. Like I said, sometimes trying to get a grip on like, what can I do as an individual can feel so overwhelming to the point where I think it produces a bit of indifference and apathy because it's just like so much. But the way that that was done, I think was just really cool. ⁓ and like I said, just, just felt like it was an easy way to sort of create that bridge between like the TV and me to go, I'm going to like try to, to, to, to ultimately try to tap into creativity in order to do that versus, obligation in a way. Does that make sense? Like try to look at approaching sustainability as a creative challenge versus an obligation that comes with a lot of baggage, even though, you know, Cyle Zezo (22:32) Yeah. Totally. Totally. Madelyn (22:58) That's there too. Does that make sense? Yeah. Cyle Zezo (23:00) makes total sense and it's such a good point because it's like we're all there's only so much we could do you know we can't all be experts in everything so you know where we can especially where it's it's meaningful for us i think it's it's important as individuals to look at you know what changes we can make obviously the biggest i don't know if this is obvious but but to me hopefully it goes without saying that if we really are going to change the world Madelyn (23:06) Yes. Cyle Zezo (23:26) we need collective action and we need systems change. And our hope kind of is that this sort of collective changing how we're reflecting the realities of our world will then lead to systems change or support the systems change that people want to see. But even in like, you know, if we are thinking about it individually, You know, there's the everyday things we do, there's the lifestyle things we do, there's like our hobbies and our interests where we can sort of think about like, is there a connection here? Madelyn (23:59) there are like so many parts and pieces. So let's get into the production pillar now, because like that is huge. There's craft services that like single use plastics galore, travel, where you're staying. There's set design and set pieces that are used one time. So what were the areas that you were really seeing that Cyle Zezo (24:05) Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Madelyn (24:26) needed to be addressed when it comes to being an active production and on set. Cyle Zezo (24:30) There's a lot to talk about here. maybe I have some controversial views on some of this. ⁓ like, so first of all, production is very important. And so there's a lot of emissions coming out of our productions. And some of them will naturally start to take care of themselves. Like the biggest area, I think, where we will see progress is Madelyn (24:34) Let's do it. Cyle Zezo (24:52) just the tech that's going to evolve to make energy use more cleaner and more efficient. And that's becoming better and cheaper all the time, all around the world. It can still be out of reach, I think, now, but that will change. And if the market is left to itself, then sort of that clean tech overhaul. of productions will be unstoppable in my view. Like I just think that will happen. There are other areas that are more difficult. Flying and travel, I think is the biggest one. And that is something that in our current situation in the industry, there's not a lot that like a production can necessarily do about it. And the reason for that is that we are under a lot of budget stress. There's high expectations for quality. There's fast turnaround. And there are lower budget expectations. you have to lower, you still have to deliver better, stronger shows than ever on a lower budget. And to solve that, Madelyn (25:50) Yep. Right. Cyle Zezo (25:58) It's having negative effects across the board because to solve that, first of all, we're flying a lot of people overseas. We're filming a lot overseas. We're benefiting from tax credits overseas, which means that dollars are leaving the US and leaving the local regions, particularly in Los Angeles. And that has a negative impact on the entire economy, of course. You also are, in a lot of cases, you have to fly over a team. Madelyn (26:08) Mm-hmm. Cyle Zezo (26:24) Because the creative expectations and the timeline expectations are such that you cannot necessarily rely, especially for like field shows on local teams that you are picking up in every region because they may not have the experience or to deliver on either of those things on the quality or on the speed. And so then you're forced to fly people to whatever location that you have to shoot in because of because of budget, which then leads to Madelyn (26:44) Mm-hmm. Cyle Zezo (26:53) significantly higher emissions. So there's a lot of repercussions for the current budget situation that's being imposed on a lot of these shows. I don't know if I can, like personally, if I wanna talk about what some of the solutions to that might be because it's still being discussed. the good side, like again, Madelyn (27:00) Mm-hmm. Cyle Zezo (27:12) I want to highlight that it is very important to walk the walk. In the greater context, unscripted productions tend to have a significantly lower carbon footprint than scripted productions. And scripted productions tend to have a significantly lower carbon footprint than other industries, which are very highly polluting, right? So we do need to get better. Everybody needs to do their part. We definitely need to walk the walk. But I think looking for every opportunity to do that is important. You mentioned the low hanging fruit that kind of everyone mentions that at this point should just be the default because it's the one everyone thinks of is the plastic bottles. Like if you can get rid of them. Like if you're shooting on a static location, everyone should have a bottle. You should bring it in and refill it. At the very least, you should be doing canned, you know, and recycle the aluminum. Aluminum is endlessly recyclable. Obviously there's a lot of nuances in how aluminum. Madelyn (28:02) Yes. Cyle Zezo (28:04) is produced and whatnot, at the core aluminum is recyclable. Don't use plastic. So that is something that generally we can do. You run into problems when you're shooting on locations that don't have that readily available or traveling around a lot, but that's just something everyone should just do at this point. Everyone, that's the thing they think of. So just do it. And it's easier said than done, The other thing that I think is really doable, but there's a cultural barrier here, is Madelyn (28:18) Mm-hmm. Cyle Zezo (28:32) You also mentioned this, catering. if you are catering, particularly if you're catering, a lot of unscripted shows don't do catering. You know, it's everybody order your own lunch because there's like a seven person crew or something. But like if you are catering, then looking at plant-based by default, that, I would love if everyone just did plant-based, but that's not what plant-based by default is. It's not saying everyone has to eat vegan on the whole production. Madelyn (28:52) Mm. Cyle Zezo (28:55) is a way to set up the catering process so that if people want meat, it's still available. The cheese is still out there. It's just laid out and designed and labeled in a way where you tend to eat more of the whole foods and the vegetable-centered things and plant-based things. So it's a setup. It's almost psychological. because all of the stuff is still available, you're not taking anything away, but what it tends to do is lead to significant reductions in the amount of meat and dairy that is consumed on a production, and that can have a significant impact, and that's something that everyone should also be taking up, I think. Madelyn (29:42) Yeah, so meat isn't the main character of this. Meat and cheese are not the main character. there's sort of like single use plastics, plant-based by default. Travel, we know is such a big issue and is going to... Travel and energy are so huge. Cyle Zezo (29:44) Me, it's not the main character. Travel and energy are the biggest contributors to emissions. Madelyn (30:00) But what are some other things you're seeing? I always think of just, no one's really printing paper anymore, but I don't know, I think of sets, like set design sets, single use sets for you tried to address that sector? And if so, what are the solutions there? Cyle Zezo (30:06) Yeah. It's crazy, mean, the amount, this is something we hear a lot actually from producers, because no one likes this, is the amount of waste. First of all, buying everything new every single time you start a production, and then the amount that just goes right into the dump at the end of it. It's like sickening, like people are like nausea, like producers who care about this, which I think everybody does. You sort of get into a rhythm at a certain point, you're like, this is how it's done, but like, anyone who takes a look at that will reasonably conclude that... Madelyn (30:24) Yes? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Cyle Zezo (30:43) this is not an efficient system, this is bad. And so it is something that there are things we can do. There's the Green Production Guide that like Peach Plus, Sustainable Entertainment Alliance has a guide on production practices. One of the problems we've been running into is that a lot of the guides that have been written for production practices have either come out of the UK, which is great. you know, they've led the way on a lot of this stuff, but then it's written through a European or UK lens. And a lot of the things that apply there do not apply here. It's just, it's not feasible. The way that the U S and North America are set up and operate is not the same so that's one issue we've run into. Another issue is that even over here, the ones that have, Madelyn (31:09) Mm-hmm. Cyle Zezo (31:28) been designed for North America have been written for the scripted industry. There's a lot that carries over. But this happens repeatedly. Like the unscripted, there's so much opportunity unscripted, but unscripted is kind of like the afterthought, right? It's like, well, let's just fit, you guys can figure out how to use this. Yeah, and it's quite frustrating, I think. And so fortunately, Madelyn (31:46) and it'll trickle down to you, yeah. Cyle Zezo (31:53) We have a great relationship with Sustainable Entertainment Alliance and they're very supportive of the unscripted field. So we're partnering up with them to actually come out with, hopefully early next year, maybe mid next year, we'll see, but to come out with a set of guidelines that are tailored to the unscripted sector in North America and the US. So that's something that we're actually working on. So a lot of these big questions. where maybe there are some answers that exist in scripted that we can adopt. Maybe there are some things that will be specific to unscripted that we need to address. Maybe there are some things where the solutions don't exist yet, and that's an area where some entrepreneurial person can come in and create a system that will benefit themselves and everybody. But those are the types of things that we're going to be diving into over the next few months with Reality of Change and SEA. Madelyn (32:43) how exciting. when you release that, we'll have to have you back on and talk about it. really looking forward to seeing how that comes together and what resources you can provide. so any more on the production side that where you see huge opportunities for companies, individual producers on set and just in their, you know, in their production process as a whole, where they can be better. Cyle Zezo (33:05) Well, what I will say is that So if you are listening to this now and you are an EIC or a line producer working in Unscripted in the US, or you are working at a production company that has one who you think could be really passionate about it, we're actively recruiting or looking for people who want to be part of this process. We have a... a few great folks who are already gonna be involved in it. But we're looking for people who are solution oriented, but can speak confidently to what will work and be very frank about what won't work and to help us overcome that because we need to have some honest conversations and come out. Our goal is always to come out with resources that are actually actionable. Like we don't wanna just drop a... Madelyn (33:52) Here Cyle Zezo (33:53) I don't know, just a bunch of information and say, luck. Madelyn (33:53) you go. Yeah. Cyle Zezo (33:55) Like it's, it's, it's always meant to be simple and tailored and, and hopefully immediately actionable. and we're always open to feedback too on, on what's missing, what's not working, what's working really well. So we always welcome that. But if there is anybody who is, who would want to, particularly line producers in the ICC, you know, that's that, that kind of head is what we want right now. But if there's anybody who has an expertise. and kind of the production area who wants to be part of the conversation. There will be a lot of ideas that are brought to the table from the sustainability world, people who are already doing this. What we need is the reflection and the feedback from the unscripted world. So that's something that if someone wanted to get involved that they could reach out. Madelyn (34:40) Amazing. the fact that you're actually ensuring that your roadmaps and resources are informed by the people who are actually gonna implement and execute and who actually deal with the obstacles between production and network and expectations and... Cyle Zezo (34:53) Mm-hmm. Madelyn (34:57) It's so important that it's well informed and that's really cool. And this kind of leads us to that industry piece we were talking about where, you know, if someone pledges with you and wants to align with you, they ensure that anyone within their company or that works with them who's passionate about this, whether it be a line producer or someone in development who, you know, wants to produce a thrifted project, runway, whatever. that they elevate those people and they try to ensure that they have the resources they need. So talk to me more about that industry piece, because I know that you said it's kind of the most exciting for you. Cyle Zezo (35:31) I think it's really exciting because people want to engage in this, they want to see solutions, but you're kind of like silenced by this feeling that we all collectively perpetuate, hopefully we're lessening that, where nobody else... you feel that nobody else wants to talk about it or it's not important or whatever. So... I think when we all just start to open up about that and just be receptive, and not be silencing, but be receptive and signal that we're receptive or communicate that we're receptive, then you'll get a lot more people standing up and coming with ideas. And we don't have all the solutions. We are taking other people's ideas and our own ideas. and kind of funneling them through this process to hopefully come up with solutions that will work for everybody. But we don't have them all. We need more people speaking up. And that can come from every angle. So if the principal at a company or an executive producer is supportive of something and wants to get involved, that is fantastic. They should do that. It's their show. It's their company. they should set the stage for that. But then... If somebody else on the team, whatever area of the company they're in, if they're in the finance department, if they're on a show working in wardrobe, you know, like if they're whatever it is, like they will, they're going to know their own area best. And so they should feel like they have the leeway to voice the solutions and kind of lead on the solutions that they have. And that, that I think is, a really exciting. opportunity is to have this groundswell that we know is already there feel empowered to act on their own. passions and their own kind of internal mission, right? And their own internal drive. that's, there's more to that. And again, all these pillars can be interpreted and adapted in ways that are relevant to each company. But that's a piece of that industry pillar that I think is actually critical. Madelyn (37:32) I agree completely. And it is funny that There's this weird like tension that actually isn't there. So if you're in the banking industry, know, sustainable bankers for banking, like let's go. Everyone, everyone, yeah. Cyle Zezo (37:40) Yes! Yes, yeah, exactly. There's this, like we talk about, there's this sustainable wedding alliance. There's opportunity everywhere. There's opportunity everywhere and there's need everywhere. I truly believe that there is passion everywhere. We talked about this earlier, we can't all be experts on everything, but you're an expert in something. So, you know, look at it through that lens, right? Madelyn (37:55) Totally. Totally. Like you're exactly, yeah, like I'm not an expert in sustainability, but I'm an expert in X. And so, yeah, I agree completely. How do you define success for reality of change? What are your metrics for success? how do you define success? What does that look like? Cyle Zezo (38:16) Yeah. It's a great question. mean, I just want the world to be better. So like, it's, it's, you know, there's like, we have to for various, you know, in various contexts, we have to like, come up with an answer for this. But like, honestly, we just, we just want to help people be where they want to be. Like, we know that, like, people want the solutions and we know that people want to be engaged with, you know, with their community on this. And So that's like, that's success is just kind of getting to a place. I truly believe this actually. Success is getting to a place where we're not needed anymore. Like if, know, like this is probably too short a timeline, but like if five years from now, you know, every production company has like knows how to produce sustainably and knows how to like kind of think about what values in their shows and in the people they cast. Madelyn (39:02) Mm. Cyle Zezo (39:21) can be translated in a way that supports creating a better world. And I mean like that from a perspective of like a health perspective. I mean that from like an efficiency perspective, like a, taking care of the nature and ecosystems that we have and hopefully even reversing course on a lot of the things that we're doing, pollution perspective, everything, like all these perspectives, if that can sort of be, if we can think about the impacts of what we're putting out, everything we're putting out through that lens without us needing to kind of be there to remind or help. guide that in any way. Obviously they'll need to draw on experts and continue to do that and you know that's something that we try to help facilitate too but that that's the ultimate goal is to not be not be needed. Madelyn (40:14) that's really cool. So what's, know, your vision for reality of change in five years is that you're not needed anymore. But between now and then, I know you talked about, adapting that really specific production roadmap for next year. Like what else, what else are you hoping to do and how are you hoping to evolve? Cyle Zezo (40:31) I will confess to you that I have a policy of not really laying down concrete plans more than a year or two out because things just change so much in the interim. So I like I try to really live in the moment and also the next 12 months of moments. But but you know, in addition to kind of building up those resources and those services, we are you. Madelyn (40:39) Whew, don't we know it. Mm-hmm. Cyle Zezo (40:56) we will expand our work internationally as well. yeah, and like there's already a lot of work being done internationally. There's a lot being done in the EU and in the UK, a lot of great work being done in Australia, fantastic work being done in Canada as well. So there's a lot of the English speaking world has a lot of coverage and then kind of the Western world. Madelyn (41:00) Amazing. Cyle Zezo (41:23) I have a tendency to look at things that others are kind of ignoring. And so we have plans in the works to expand into some really fun, impactful places soon. So, yeah. Madelyn (41:39) Exciting. Well, I will be on the lookout for all of that. What OK, so so tell me you've given so much incredible valuable insight, but there's so much more and there's so many entry points into getting involved and making commitment So how can producers and companies get resources from reality of change? Give us some some CTAs here. Cyle Zezo (42:02) Sure, I have two. The first one is go to realityofchange.com for resources. And the second is if you have a production company working in unscripted, go to greenerreality.org to take the pledge. And you can fill out a form there. We'll get in contact with you. We'll give you everything you need to know. And we'd love to have everyone engaged. And I think it's something that people realize that we, we all need to do. Like it's becoming clearer every day. that this is the reality we're living in and we've locked in a certain level of warming and change that is going to continue to accelerate, actually no matter what we do now. So in order to mitigate the absolute worst effects, everyone needs to do something. again, the super majority of Americans, super majority of producers recognize that. So if you wanna be a part of that, there are things you can do and you should please definitely reach out. Madelyn (43:01) I will also link these in the show notes guys so you can just go right there and I'll also link for you to like personally follow Cyle as well and ensure that you're staying up to date. Okay, so let's wrap it up with, I've got a little rapid fire here. ⁓ Okay, right now what's your favorite unscripted show, Guilty Pleasure? Cyle Zezo (43:15) Okay. The Boyfriend on Netflix. I want to see more. It's a Japanese show. Madelyn (43:26) I was like, wait, I have not heard of this. What's the premise? Cyle Zezo (43:27) It's very sweet. It's a bunch of gay Japanese, actually it's a bunch of men in Japan. Some of them are actually not Japanese, but they are put together to live in a house. It's a social experiment and you might have an expectation of how it would go based on how we sort of see things in the West, but it is the sweetest show in the world. So I love it. Madelyn (43:51) I need that. Okay, that is on my watch list immediately. What is a show that you think really nailed sustainability overall or as a segment without preaching it, I guess. Cyle Zezo (44:02) One of my favorites recently was, I think it was recent, when was this? It was an episode of Kitchen Nightmares on Fox. I know, yeah. They went to New Orleans to kind of support this restaurant that was struggling because of personnel issues, but it was a plant-based restaurant, so that's a big thing. It was struggling after it was affected by Madelyn (44:09) cool. What did they do? Cyle Zezo (44:27) A climate-fueled natural disaster, so it had a climate-related backstory. And then as part of, you know, they'll bring in like an expert or like a celebrity or something to sort of like help, you know, rally and turn things around. And the expert they brought in was an ex-NFL football player who was also plant-based. So it kind of overturns that stereotype about what it means to be plant-based. So loved it. I was like the biggest, I was like the whole time I'm like, yes, yes, yes, this is exactly how to do it. I didn't preach at all. Madelyn (44:30) Wow. I love that. is a dream show or a show that you'd love to be like, let me get in there. Let me consult. Yes. Cyle Zezo (45:00) ⁓ Love Island. So many, so like the audience is there and it's like, you know, it's it's a obviously like biggest show out there right now, but it's so much opportunity. Madelyn (45:12) Yes. Ariana is, I mean, try to get through Ariana. She's the host. She's passionate about it. Like, I don't know. Yeah, that'd be incredible. Cause you're right. The audience is, mean, it's like almost a billion viewers this summer. It's crazy. One thing every production should stop doing today. Cyle Zezo (45:26) Yeah. Yeah. asking for permission Madelyn (45:31) is the most underrated sustainable swap on screen or underrated sustainable opportunity on screen? Cyle Zezo (45:38) on screen. Honestly, it's whichever one is already there, right? Like it's like, it's, I think it's a great question and it's hard to give a single answer to because it just, it depends so much on the context. But I think it's, really the answer is look at what you already have. Look at your cast, look at your set design, look at your, you know, themes, like, and just whatever you already have, they're... Madelyn (45:42) Mm. Cyle Zezo (46:01) you do not have to go like way out there. It's like there is low hanging fruit that can have a massive, massive impact. And that's actually the best way to go about it anyway. Whatever's already authentic to the show. Just lean into the sustainability angle. Madelyn (46:14) I love that because it exists, it's everywhere. It's so easily, it's easily accessible and easy to amplify. I love that. If you could green light any change in the industry, what would it be? Cyle Zezo (46:16) Yeah, yeah. this one, hmm, I would demonopolize. Madelyn (46:32) Oof, felt. ⁓ Cyle Zezo (46:33) Yeah, think that a healthy industry is a diverse industry with lots and lots of players. And, you know, we're not heading in that direction, but it's, I think that's something that a lot of people would like who are working at the industry would like to see. Madelyn (46:53) Yes. Yeah, I don't know. Yes. I mean, I agree with you 100%. I can only hope that, you know, what goes up must come down. Once you hit one extreme, it has to go to the other. So who knows? But I, that I agree with you completely out there. Well, thank you so much for spending time with me and talking to me about this, giving us valuable takeaways and, pointing us in the right direction for, those of us who, you know, are looking for answers and, and, and solutions and thank you for providing those and working to do that in this industry and exciting to see what's next for you and reality of change. And we will keep following and hopefully the next big news you have, the next big producers resource that you have, I'll have you back on and we can talk more about it. Cyle Zezo (47:34) Amazing. Thank you for having me. Congrats on all your success. It's been very exciting to see and continue to root for you every day. And yeah, let's we will obviously keep our conversation going and let's come back and chat again soon. Thank you. Bye. Madelyn (47:37) Thank you. That's good. See ya. Madelyn (47:55) Thank you so much for listening. Again, all of the links to resources will be in my show notes. And if you, if this is speaking to you, if you are the person within your organization who wants to head this up, take the thanks so much to Cyle Hope to have him on some point next year. Thank so much for listening. Don't forget to like, subscribe, rate, review, follow us on Instagram at Unscripted Files Pod, And we'll be back next week with more. Happy Friday.