Keith Thomas (00:00) I was given opportunities to fail and then be pressed on my failure. So whether it was my mother or my father, if I made a mistake, if I dropped the ball, if I didn't meet the mark, somebody would be like, okay, you, Madelyn Cunningham (00:05) Mmm. Keith Thomas (00:14) It's fine, but this is what you need to do next time. Or this is how you could do it better. So in my mind, failure was just a step in the process. So why not try? Why not go? Why not do? Why not give it all I can? Whether I meet the mark or not, the opportunity isn't lost. Madelyn Cunningham (00:18) Mm-hmm. Madelyn Cunningham (00:39) Hey everybody and welcome to the Unscripted Files. My name is Madelyn Cunningham. I am a development producer in the unscripted industry, bringing you candid conversations with the minds behind your favorite form of entertainment. Today is episode 20. It is the season finale, which feels very dramatic, but it is. And I'm so excited to bring you this interview. It feels like the perfect cherry on top to an incredible. run and it's just been so much fun. Thank you guys so much for listening. This interview is with a very talented friend of mine what we call media generalist, because When you show run, develop, produce and everything in between, that's just what we got to call it. He is so incredibly talented, so unbelievably insightful when it comes to failure, creativity, curiosity, And again, I feel like it's just the perfect end to the season because it encompasses everything that I've tried to bring forward on this show. I really know. that you are going to enjoy this conversation with media generalist Keith Thomas. Enjoy. Madelyn Cunningham (01:50) Keith Thomas, welcome to the Unscripted Files. How's it going? Keith Thomas (01:53) all as well. Thank you for having me. Madelyn Cunningham (01:55) Yeah, absolutely. We were just talking right before we got on as press record. I was like, you do so many things. You're in development, you've show run, you've directed, you do music. And I was like, how do you want me to refer to you? And you said, someone called me a media generalist the other day. I think it works. Keith Thomas (02:13) I think it is an appropriate title. It's something I never really thought about. I think I just always wanted to be the creative guy and I saw how all these pieces fit together and I just threw myself at positions and it sort of worked. Madelyn Cunningham (02:27) I love that. Well, we're going to get into Design My Space Atlanta, a series that you're a part of for BET in a moment. But I do want to talk about that sort of just throwing yourself into positions and seeing if it worked. I'd love to dive into how you got into media as a career and what your journey has kind of been up to this point. Keith Thomas (02:32) Hmm. It's been a long and winding road. I started out in Virginia working like some people through the world of news, finding out that being a news shooter and editor wasn't really what I wanted to do and then got into creative services at a TV station. And that's where I made the most awful television commercials known to man. But with that job, taught me in the late 90s and the early 2000s is to work fast and to work with very limited resources and to do my best at making something of quality. It was my first understanding and how to tell a story in such a short amount of time too. And so while the commercials were terrible, it was probably the best training ground I could ever have. So that's how I got started. And through that, experience. I worked at universities and making media and marketing material for Virginia Tech and for Radford University, both in Virginia. My break into TV was as a camera person, a camera operator, and I got a call to do a freelance shoot for the Oprah Winfrey Show. And they started using me over and over again. to shoot vignettes as their mid-Atlantic region shooter. And so that's what got me into the freelance world in the early 2000s. And that job led to another job as a DP working on reality shows. And I was working on a show called E! True Hollywood Stories back in early 2000s. And my first producing job is where a... Madelyn Cunningham (04:17) yeah. Keith Thomas (04:23) producer got sick. The audio guy, the lighting guy and myself didn't want to go home. So we continued the shoot and I asked the questions and, kept the shoot going. And then E! ⁓ started hiring me as a field producer. ⁓ And so it just sort of built from there. It's been a long and winding, winding road, but I started out as, you know, Madelyn Cunningham (04:41) Love that. Keith Thomas (04:50) a below the line tech, if you will. That's where the media generalist, I guess, started because I was doing sound and I was doing, I was lighting and I was shooting and I had all these skills, but I was also had a mind for story and how to tell a story in a very short amount of time. And then that started turning into news packages and then that started turning into vignettes and longer sequences for national TV shows and then it started turning into entire television episodes telling those stories and it just grew and expanded. Madelyn Cunningham (05:22) I love that. think everyone sort of has a winding road, that moment where you had to like fill in for the producer, right? it kind of could have been a make or break for you. You could have said, Ooh, I'm too nervous. I don't know how to do this. I'm just gonna, we're going to tap out for the day. Why, what do you think it is about your personality that made you go? Keith Thomas (05:25) Yes. Madelyn Cunningham (05:39) No, I can do this, I'm gonna hop in here, I'm gonna make sure we get the day done. Keith Thomas (05:43) At the time, I was married with two children. I needed the money. And I say that kind of tongue in cheek. I think I've always been motivated to meet the need of the family. And this is the way I wanted to do it. And I knew that I could do the job. There was a fearlessness that I've always had in every space. Even if I didn't know, I knew if I could just get in the spaces, I'd figure it out. I'd find a way. The answer would come. Things always work in my favor. And I've always just had that positive mental attitude to just give it my best and it's going to work. And I think I, taking a step back culturally, my grandmother used to say, I'm a griot. And in the West African tradition, they're these folks who were musicians and storytellers that kept the culture going. They were called griots. And my grandmother, God rest her soul, passed away last year, was a griot. She told stories and she taught us how to tell stories. And so I was just raised in this world where these amazing men and women taught me how to tell stories. And it was just sort of in me. So to tell stories in a television space or in a documentary space or in a film space seemed second nature because of how I was raised. And so because of that, I knew I could tell a story when I was at that threshold of, know, my colleague is sick. He can't continue on the shoot. We don't want to go home. I know I can make this happen. I can tell a story. Madelyn Cunningham (07:16) I've never heard that before, Griot. I mean, it's so important that what you sort of grew up listening to stories, storytelling, it was innate in you to ask the right questions, to pull out the right information. what do you think, have you always had that confidence or is that something that you feel like came to you at a certain point in life? Keith Thomas (07:36) I don't even know if it's confidence. I think there's just this thing in me to just try. know, I, again, I credit my, just the way I was raised, not on thinking about this. I was given opportunities to fail and then be pressed on my failure. So whether it was my mother or my father, if I made a mistake, if I dropped the ball, if I didn't meet the mark, somebody would be like, okay, you, Madelyn Cunningham (07:42) Mm. Mmm. Keith Thomas (08:06) It's fine, but this is what you need to do next time. Or this is how you could do it better. So in my mind, failure was just a step in the process. So why not try? Why not go? Why not do? Why not give it all I can? Whether I meet the mark or not, the opportunity isn't lost. Madelyn Cunningham (08:10) Mm-hmm. Keith Thomas (08:26) Just keep doing it again. So I think it's more, I'm a byproduct of my family. Madelyn Cunningham (08:27) Absolutely. I mean, that's so beautiful because I think a lot of the times, and you're a parent as well, we do try to protect our children from failure because it's not a great feeling. And, you know, we also always try to protect ourselves from failure because of the feelings it may elicit. So the fact that you were able to fail in a safe space and failure just became part of the formula instead of this thing you constantly avoid. obviously has set you up for a lot of success. And you're right, especially in this world and development specifically and entertainment, rejection, failure, if you want to call it, is, oh, it's literally part, it is the DNA of the industry. It's just part of it. So you got to learn to deal with it early on. And the fact that you have such a healthy relationship with just trying and like putting it out there. Keith Thomas (09:09) You're gonna hear the nose often. Madelyn Cunningham (09:26) I think is really, really special. So you and I, like I came to know you, I think right around your time with scripts, discovery, magnolia. So talk to me about your time, you know, in a development role and in what you really enjoyed about that. Keith Thomas (09:35) Mm-hmm. My development experience really kind of expanded once I got to Magnolia. My time at Scripps Discovery started well before then, where I was producing and directing internally for Scripps Productions and working on Smart Home and Dream Home, making that content with an amazing group of people. And then shifted to an internal team as an executive producer on the digital team in a space, what is called convergence, working with the linear talent in the digital space. And they wanted somebody who had linear experience to work with the linear talent in the digital space. And so it was a great lane for me. And where my mind was is everything was trending digital or streaming. Madelyn Cunningham (10:11) Mm-hmm. Keith Thomas (10:26) And so I took that opportunity just to really expand my skill set. The opportunity presented itself at Magnolia when they were broadening their team. Allison had just left Magnolia and moved over. Sarah Cuban moved from HGTV over to Magnolia. And I think at the time, early in the process, they wanted somebody with digital experience, linear experience, knew how production worked. and someone who had, some background in creating television from the ground up, not just on the corporate side. Can you make a show from end to end? And I was well suited for that job. being in that position, I think it gave me an advantage having Madelyn Cunningham (11:06) Mm-hmm. Keith Thomas (11:13) the skill set that I came from, all those failures paid off in being able to develop really, really quality shows, understanding production from end to end. That was the advantage that I had. I wasn't just someone who came through the corporate ranks. As my kids say, dad, you got it out the mud. You know, came from the bottom up. You know? Madelyn Cunningham (11:31) yeah. I love that. know, and Magnolia, know, especially early on, you know, launching their sort of brand in entertainment, they had really specific mandates. They had a really specific tone and vision that they wanted to strike. Positive, aspirational, artistic. How challenging was it to kind of work within that brand and how did you try to bring your own Keith Thomas (11:45) Mm-hmm. Yes. Madelyn Cunningham (11:57) signature to it. Keith Thomas (12:00) I felt very fortunate at Magnolia. What we were trying to do at the time kind of fit my personality and my aesthetic, just how I live life. I consider myself to be an artist first. I consider myself to really love and appreciate the finer things. What Chip and Joe were trying to do at the time, they didn't want to be another DIY network. They didn't want to be a little sister to HGTV. What they were establishing was a new way of appreciating design, appreciating food. And for someone like me, it was a playground. And I was just able to bring my personal aesthetic, my way of living. It was very much in line with what Chip and Joe were doing. And so I really just got a chance to be myself and create pitch and receive pitches and help shape ideas and ferry them through the process. Things that were just authentic to me and they worked. One of my favorite shows was in with the old that I ⁓ kind of developed end to end and the scene someone take and preserve. Madelyn Cunningham (13:12) Mm. Keith Thomas (13:19) something that's old and make it their own and livable, but really appreciate what the house story is. That's something that I've done in my own renovation life. You know what I mean? Madelyn Cunningham (13:31) Right. That's a beautiful show. Such a clever title. It says exactly what it is. It's a familiar turn of phrase. And I love how each episode is just its own sort of standalone journey. ⁓ It's a really beautiful show. What else did you really enjoy working on during your time there? Keith Thomas (13:44) Hmm. two series were near and dear to my heart. You don't see a lot of gardening in TV these days. And to be able to work with Jamila Norman in her series, Homegrown, she was an Atlanta-based gardener who transformed and renovated spaces, making these really amazing backyards. come to life. That's her life. That's what she does for a living. I mean, she is a farmer in an area that was once a food desert. It is no longer a food desert because of her. like people in the community are learning from her. And we had the opportunity of just expanding, giving her a platform and being an evangelist for urban gardening. That show was very important to me, just on a personal level. And another one that was just a little out of the box, out of the ordinary, was The Craftsman. The reason why I appreciated that show is here you have a senior man, someone who is more mature and had a lot of life experience. Madelyn Cunningham (14:44) Mmm. Keith Thomas (14:55) And when you watched him, it was like sitting at the feet of your grandfather and letting his wisdom and words wash over you. All the while learning these skillsets. mean, his woodworking was like nothing that I've ever seen. And the things that he created and restored was nothing like I had ever seen before. And to be able to give that a platform, to give this senior man, this mature man, an opportunity in a world where everybody's like, we need to skew younger and we need to, you know, we need to get eyeballs that are younger to buy. And it was like, we sort of zigged when everybody else was zagging with that one. And we took a chance and it was a good show. Madelyn Cunningham (15:36) Mm-hmm. I think it's so easy to think that after a certain age, those things don't really matter anymore and no one's listening. And I can tell by the way that you speak about your grandmother, how important it is for you to ensure that we are listening and highlighting. people with these decades of experience and who have something to share. And yeah, it's a beautiful show as well. seen both. And I think ultimately it comes down to like things that seem to resonate with you are things that kind of feel like a lost art, gardening, craftsmanship, highlighting the individuals who despite everything are trying to ensure that they stay true to. to what they love. I think it's so neat. Are there any white whale projects, you know, over the past few years that you just couldn't quite get across the line that you were equally as passionate about? Keith Thomas (16:32) There were certain people that I wanted to see in the design space there were certain people that I wanted to see in the food space There were certain Types of things that I want it brought back one of my favorite shows one of my favorite food talent was Alton Brown and I loved Madelyn Cunningham (16:36) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Keith Thomas (16:52) food science because of him. And I've always thought there was a lane for food science to be fun again. And we almost had one. You know, we almost had one. Madelyn Cunningham (16:54) Totally. It's yeah. And then it's, huh, you know, and we all feel this where it's just like, you know, that last piece of like, it's a little too heady. It's a little too whatever, you know, ⁓ no, all is incredible. And I agree. And there's all, you know, listen, there's a time for everything. Nothing's ever truly dead. So fingers crossed that at some point we could, we could see that. think that's fascinating as well. what do you feel like is the, and you've talked about this a little bit, but Keith Thomas (17:14) Mm-hmm. Madelyn Cunningham (17:32) you know, what do you feel like is sort of the signature touch that you bring to projects that feel very Keith Thomas? Keith Thomas (17:38) What I want to be able to do in every piece that I work on is to make people feel. I want to be able to open you up and for that half hour or that hour that you're sitting with content that I've had my hands on, you get to just let go of whatever your experience in and get lost in whatever this experience I helped create for you. It's the same mentality that I bring to the table. I used to be a former professional touring musician. It's the same attitude that I had on stage as a keyboard player that you're paying your money for this experience. have a responsibility to you to create an environment for you to sit under and let this impact you. Let me open you. If you're going to sit on your sofa or be on a commuter train watching on your phone or at an airport and you're going to take a moment and watch this content, I want this to be a place that you can escape, be opened up and feel. Now what you feel, it's up to you. But I want you to be able to feel, and that's the signature Keith Thomas touch. That's the through line, whether it's a true crime show, a food show, a design show. a music documentary, that's what I'm bringing to the table. I want you to feel it. Madelyn Cunningham (19:06) an invitation to feel. think, yeah. Well, I just, it's so, you I think in our day-to-day life with the access we have to information, numbing out is kind of the MO lately because there's a lot going on. And so having content and entertainment and something that invites you to feel whatever those feelings may be, Keith Thomas (19:08) Nah, yeah, that's a better way to say it. Yes. Mm-hmm. Madelyn Cunningham (19:29) I think that's a really beautiful way to put how you influence and shape your projects. I think that's incredible. Okay, so let's dive into Design My Space Atlanta. We know Home and Lifestyle isn't new to you, as we've just talked about, but what was the vision for Design My Space Atlanta? And tell me how it kind of came together. Were you part of it from the beginning? Talk to me about the genesis of this show with BET. Keith Thomas (19:53) This Design My Space Atlanta was an idea that first started with BET and they coupled paired with a production company who I happened to be working with on another project and they brought me on board because of my home renovation design experience. Early in the development process I was able to get my hands on it and shape the project, you know, to meet BET's needs. What BET desired is entering into the lifestyle space. This was their first renovation show and they're getting at the travel, they're getting at the food. It's an exciting time for them to be in lifestyle. And this was their first one out of the gate. So I felt a responsibility to Madelyn Cunningham (20:21) Mm-hmm. Keith Thomas (20:42) to the network to really meet their needs in a unique way, to meet the needs of their viewers. I mean, you know what I mean by this. There is meeting the need of the network, making sure that they have, from a business perspective, from a creative perspective, everything buttoned up. But then there's their viewer, which needs an experience, and then they're trying to meet the need of that as well, but... that they gave me that responsibility. As a part of that responsibility, finding talent was key. And we had a great casting department to be able to find those who would participate in the show. But I appreciate BET giving me the opportunity to kind of tap the woman who I felt was the right one for the job. And Tyka Pride, who is a remarkable designer. Madelyn Cunningham (21:12) Mm-hmm. Hmm. Keith Thomas (21:36) and has operated in a lot of the TV spaces. She has worked as a design producer on a number of shows, shows that I have worked on. That's how she and I came to know each other. think our first time crossing paths was on Extreme Makeover Home Edition. And so this was in late 20 teens that she and I came to know each other and just watching her work, seeing her visions come to life. She's an amazing designer. Madelyn Cunningham (21:53) Okay. Keith Thomas (22:05) and I'm, I was like, this is the woman for this job. This is her time. And BET trusted me with that. And I think when you watch Tyka and her interactions with, the clients on the show and the designs that she comes up with, you'll see what I'm seeing. You'll, you'll feel what I'm feeling. she, she's a very special woman and it's a very special show. And I think BET's needs were met. Madelyn Cunningham (22:23) Totally. Keith Thomas (22:31) and the viewers need to remember. Madelyn Cunningham (22:32) Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's so interesting to be sort of on the front lines of creating lifestyle content for a brand that we all like know and love. So essentially, really, this kind of served as a litmus test for for the network and for the audiences to see how they responded. What was important for you? Keith Thomas (22:47) No. Madelyn Cunningham (22:53) to bring to Design My Space Atlanta for BET specifically? Like what type of stories in your casting, what were you looking for to ensure that you aligned with what the network wanted and what the audience wanted to see more of? Keith Thomas (23:07) Beatty's viewership is primarily women. And I think it may be, I am an advocate for women telling women's stories, always. If there's an opportunity that I can pass along to another strong woman who's a great storyteller, I will do it in a heartbeat. In this experience, it gave me an opportunity just to kind of sit with myself and it's like, What do I want to create for my sister, my mother, my aunt, my cousin, really listening to these strong women in my world about how they wanted to be represented on TV. And I was able to do that because BET gave me this opportunity. I took into account the women I was trying to meet the need of. You know, and I brought them to the table. That's what I did. Yeah. Madelyn Cunningham (24:02) Yeah. Well, and just even again, having representation in the lifestyle space with casting and people who have similar interests or similar design issues, similar tastes, it was all sort of a part of the formula here and you can really see that. You stepped into the director's chair for this show, right? So talk to me about... why you love that role and what that was like for Design My Space Atlanta. Keith Thomas (24:30) Well, I had a very strong vision for the show and I... It's funny. I was telling BT, we need to find a director. And they were like, no, you're the director. Okay. So yeah, let's do it. Let's go with it. So, I mean, BT and the production company, they sort of advocated for me to tell the story. And I think it's because in putting together the show Bible, Madelyn Cunningham (24:43) and you did the say yes, you were like, all right, let's do it. Keith Thomas (24:59) and laying out what the creative vision was, they were like, he's got it. Let's just go with it. And I appreciate them again. They trusted me and I wasn't gonna fail them. And I knew how to handle a show from end to end at all points, even if it meant I had to pick up a camera. knew, you know, I knew where I needed to, yes. So I... Madelyn Cunningham (25:23) You done it. Yeah. Keith Thomas (25:27) Trust, I appreciated them for giving me the opportunity. Directing, producing and directing are two positions I don't take lightly. I've always, regardless of the position that I've operated in, whether I was in camera department or in sound department or operating as a PA, I've always had a mind for story. That puts me in this place where I think I'm well suited for directing. I always have a mind for money. How things are being spent. Are we seeing the dollar on the screen? That puts me in this place of being, I think, a good producer. And excuse me, to be able to couple both of those hemispheres of thinking, I think made me well suited to showrun and direct. this series. Madelyn Cunningham (26:13) 100%. What are some of the challenges, like the most common challenges with, you know, maybe the series specifically when it comes to directing? it time management? Is it just problem solving? What are some of the biggest sort of challenges you face day to day in the field? Keith Thomas (26:31) Well, as you may know with any type of home show, anytime you're dealing with someone's living space or doing some sort of reno, there's going to be a problem. Shipping, issues, cost changing constantly. You allocated this amount in the budget for drywall and you know, that was three weeks ago or a month ago when you did the budget for this particular episode. And then, you know, when you're ready to buy, it's, you know, double the price. Those types of things, you... It's great that I've had relationships over the years doing home shows that I can pivot and move and find other providers of resources quickly. That was the hardest part about this particular show was really the unforeseen material cost, you know, constantly shifting. And what made me sensitive and being able to pivot so quickly is that during the pandemic, that's when we were making a lot of our Magnolia shows, when we launched during the pandemic. And so everything was a pivot, you know? And it's like, you develop relationships with people at Lowe's and Home Depot and how do you get, you know, things from here to there and, you know, mom and pop providers of, you know, wood or paint or, you know, I know that there's this person who is in Dunwoody, Virginia, excuse me, Dunwoody, Georgia that I can go to who can get me this unique thing. and we, I pulled from those same folks in 20, from, from 2020 in 2024. you Madelyn Cunningham (28:08) Yeah, it's, mean, I can see how those unexpected, I don't know, things can be. Shipping has been, like when I ask about obstacles in design, production design, everyone talks shipping, everyone talks timing. It is just kind of one of those like inevitable issues that kind of always pops up. when you're on set out in the field, what is sort of important for you to cultivate on your sets? Like what is, okay. Keith Thomas (28:31) Community, community, community, community. I love, I love people. I mean, you and I have had the chance to hang. I I love being around people and seeing them light up, especially when they're in their lane. So I wanna work with a DP or gaffers or PAs who are excited about what they're doing. And I create and manage this environment. Madelyn Cunningham (28:39) Yeah. Yep. Keith Thomas (28:59) where they get to do more of what they want to do. If I can get everybody in that flow, in that zone, then I've done my job. It makes it easy for me to bring all these resources together and they want to be there and they're executing. The vision is going to happen because I have this community of able-bodied, really talented men and women who can just pull it off. You know, I pull the rip cord on everybody and just let them do what they do. Madelyn Cunningham (29:24) Mm-hmm. Keith Thomas (29:29) And my job is to remove obstacles. Madelyn Cunningham (29:31) I love that. it's, you you talked about being an invitation to feel, think on, you know, being on set, if you don't have a team that is comfortable and feels like they're in their lane and they're like really able to just kind of be in that like flow state where they feel trusted, you feel you're trusting them, you know, that translates on the other side of the camera, right? To the talent, to the cast, to whatever's happening. and thus translates to the audience. that sort of openness starts on set and the fact that you are able to cultivate that so that it translates all the way to the end product, I think is super important. When it comes to kind of working in your lane, you were talking about Tyka Pride earlier and how you really felt like she was the right person to be on this show. When it comes to looking at talent and vetting, who's gonna translate? Who's gonna come across well? I imagine that you must have, this is an instinctual sort of gut feeling, but when you're working with talent, when you're choosing someone, what is your sort of process and approach to finding the right person? Keith Thomas (30:35) That's really, really good question. That's something that developed early on. We both have a familiarity in the true crime space, right? In my true crime background, there's the research and booking part of it where you have to call and assess is this person the right person to tell this part of the story? Is it this prosecutor? Is it this judge? Is it this person who represents the accused or represents the victim? And in those phone calls, that season of producing true crime television, researching and booking true crime television kind of in the 20 teens in my career, I learned how people present by just having a conversation. You can pull a lot, get an understanding a lot about a person, how they move, how they operate, how they'll present in front of a camera by really just sitting and listening to them and prompting them, not questioning, but just prompting them to share. And that's the skill that was really developed in that true crime space that works in every other space of casting is prompting you, just nudging you just a bit and seeing what comes out of you and giving you the space to talk. And I think when I was... in this casting phase, looking for talent on the client side, that's what we sat in and worked together with the casting company, is being able to just press people. I interviewed everyone. I interviewed hundreds of people to be on this episode, on these episodes, and whittled it down to the few that we had. And then when it came to finding Tyka, We had gone through this really lengthy casting process, but I called Tyka up and I'm like, I think you're the woman for the job. Let's just have a conversation on camera so my peers can see what I see. You know? So all I did was just nudge her and just, she lit up and she lights up on the screen just like she did in her casting tape. She lights up in front of the camera. and she is the right person for the job. where it all came from is the true crime space, listening to people talk. Madelyn Cunningham (33:05) Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, getting your 10,000 hours, right? Becoming sort of an expert in honing in on that intuition of kind of like knowing right off the bat, like who's the right fit. Was Tyka receptive? Was she like, hell yes, this is my time to shine? Or was it suddenly like, ooh, ooh, I don't know, I don't know? Was she nervous at all? Or do you feel like she just kind of stepped right into it? Keith Thomas (33:28) My first call with her, because she knows me, right? She's like, are you joking right now? Like, what are we really talking about here? And I'm like, no, Tyka, I really want you to do this show. And she's like, OK, whatever. So that was our initial interaction with each other. And it really did not become real. It did not. Madelyn Cunningham (33:32) Right. Ahahaha! Mm-hmm. Yeah. Keith Thomas (33:50) become real to her until we were in our pre-production meetings for the series. And she was like, I think you're pulling my leg, Keith. I don't think this is a thing. And I'm like, I'm telling you, Tyka, this is our world. Yes, we are here. But I think for someone like Tyka, Madelyn Cunningham (34:01) You're like, we're literally here. Keith Thomas (34:07) She's often been on the cusp of being talent. So to protect against any level of disappointment, she just has that, you know, you know. Madelyn Cunningham (34:18) Yes, and well, we know this how many times you get close and you have to like, make sure that everyone's expectations are solid because it can be it can be so tough, you can get it over the line or you can't. So I'm sure that there was a bit of like wanting to be cautious from her. How do you you know, when you're making like casting tapes, when you're presenting someone saying like, this person is right for the job, do you have any sort of Keith Thomas (34:26) Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Madelyn Cunningham (34:41) You know, you're such a storyteller, you know how to bring things out in people, but when you're doing casting tapes or presenting someone, is there any sort of certain things that you do or that you try to capture about them that you feel like really allows everyone else to see what you see? Keith Thomas (34:56) Well, my process is to have a phone call before the recording. I need to know what I'm getting into and to know what source material I can pull from. So having that initial phone call with anybody that I'm trying to cast for something becomes very important for me. Once they're in front of that camera, whether we're in person or we're doing it over Zoom, I'm trying to pull the best of what I know of and what I don't know about you out because this is the only shot you're going to have in front of these other folks who I'm making this collective decision with. So it's my job to give you the best shot. That initial conversation sets up everything. If I don't have that, the cast and tape is not going to go well. Madelyn Cunningham (35:48) Yeah, just being able to have that established, like information. And then once you get on there, you're able to do your thing where you're, able to tell the story and really ensure it's something that's compelling and comes through the screen. I think there's people who are great in person, but they can't quite translate and break through the screen and the barrier. I think Tyka certainly does that. How was she sort of... Keith Thomas (36:10) Absolutely. Madelyn Cunningham (36:15) What does she bring to the creative process working together with her? Keith Thomas (36:18) She is an unbelievable designer. She's a designer first. One thing I appreciated about working with Chip and Joanna Gaines, on their network, they wanted the people who could really do the job on the network. Be the designer first, talent second. Matter of fact, they wanted people on the network who didn't even want to be on TV. That was their thing. Well, that sort of shaped my perspective. Madelyn Cunningham (36:42) Mm-hmm. Keith Thomas (36:45) Casting there's a when someone loves what they do as in Tyka loving design color texture space, you know really creating an environment She's very passionate about it I needed somebody who had those chops and could actually do the job and It's almost like we could have worked with someone who needed to, you know, develop their on-camera sensibilities. But we had the benefit of Tyka, who I didn't need. She just had it all. Well, she's a designer first, you know? And that's what she brings to the table. She is a designer first. She's highly skilled. I would put her against any design firm in this country. Just her skill set. She is at another level. Madelyn Cunningham (37:18) Mm-hmm. Is she remind me, is she self-taught or formally trained? Okay. Amazing. Yeah. I, know, with HG, you see so many different types and even on the culinary side, we can talk culinary too. You know, you look at, you know, sort of getting into the field and getting your feet wet versus formal training. And there's a, there's not necessarily a debate, but everyone kind of has their own path to becoming an expert. And so the fact that. Keith Thomas (37:38) She's formally trained. She's formally, yes. Yeah. Madelyn Cunningham (38:01) You know, she is so creative and has that acumen and that you believed in her, think is so incredibly special. The show was in Atlanta. Talk to me about, having the city of Atlanta be part of the show and what was it important for you to showcase about Atlanta in this series? Keith Thomas (38:17) Atlanta is definitely a character in the series. Madelyn Cunningham (38:19) Yeah, totally. Keith Thomas (38:21) Taking a step back, BET wanted to, and going forward, wants to highlight chocolate cities. That's what they call them. So, DC, Detroit, New York, Houston, Atlanta, where there is an upscale black population who, from a research standpoint, have discretionary income to spend. But it's the elevated black experience that BET wanted to show. And that's where Atlanta becomes a bit of a character because there is a lifestyle of elevation here. And I hope that we captured a little bit of that and represented that in the series. But that's what Atlanta represents, elevation. Madelyn Cunningham (38:56) Mm-hmm. Keith Thomas (39:05) in ⁓ Design My Space. ⁓ The first episode features a young lady who is an entrepreneur and her business was on the rise. ⁓ But her business since then, just a few months later, yes, her business has exploded. ⁓ But she represents that Atlanta story. Madelyn Cunningham (39:20) This is the hair oil. Yes. Amazing. Keith Thomas (39:30) You know, that elevated experience. she's doing, she, didn't go into this in the, in this particular episode, but she had a full-time job as a counselor. She's come off of that job now and she's just doing this hair oil business full-time now, just in a few short months. Yeah. Madelyn Cunningham (39:30) Totally. amazing. I love that. No, even like the way that her grandmother invested in her and came in, she had like these really cool vending machines with her products, just such a smart business mind. And being able to have a space that Tyka created to further that brand, whether it was content or just a space where she can really focus and be creative. It was really incredible. I really enjoyed that episode. The design renderings for this show were really fun. Like, I really enjoyed them. Like, they were, they had a lot of movement. They were a bit playful and kind of a bit quirky. Like, talk to me about the decisions. Because, you know, again, being at home with Renaud shows, there's a lot of different things. You can have something that's a little more, feels a little more like an illustrative sketch, something that feels, you know, there's a lot of different. Keith Thomas (40:20) Mm-hmm. Madelyn Cunningham (40:39) options for how it could look. I really enjoyed the motion design here. Talk to me about that decision. Keith Thomas (40:44) Well, that is a collaboration between Tyka and our graphic designer, Akeen. That was their brainchild. Tyka wanting to take a different approach. In most home design, interior design shows, these sketches are meant to represent the mind of the designer. We wanted to do that too, but let's show Tyka's mind in a different way. Let's show it in this. you know, kind of elevated three dimension experience. So it's not a two dimensional experience because Tyka is not a two dimensional person, you know? So, I mean, these are the types of conversations that we had. They collaborated. Akeen did a wonderful job in creating these renderings. But I have to give credit to Tyka and Akeen for really leading the charge in that space. Madelyn Cunningham (41:35) Yeah, no, it's so interesting. I sometimes I'm, I am a visual person, but I swear when I see other people's, what they're able to visualize in their brain out of thin air, I'm like, okay, you have a 3d imagination and mine is still in 2d. Like that is how I've always sort of compared it. And I love how I love that you said this, those are supposed to represent what is in the mind of the designer. never quite thought about it that way. It's an entry point into what they're visualizing. Keith Thomas (42:04) exactly what it is. Madelyn Cunningham (42:04) And so even the way that the, you know, the decor would kind of fly in and there was motion and movement, like it was obviously very indicative of how she visualizes spaces, that they're not static and 2D, that they're very much these 3D places with movement and functionality. And that is very apparent in her design process. Keith Thomas (42:26) Even her 2D renderings were done in 3D. Nothing was in a flat space. You had a sense of dimension, depth. When she's sitting at the lunch table and she's sketching out an idea, it's drawn in three dimension. That's just the way she processes the world. Madelyn Cunningham (42:29) Yeah. Right. Mm. Incredible. What have you, I mean, you've worked on a lot of design shows and you're an artist yourself. mean, do you pick up, tips and things here and there when you're thinking about your own spaces? Like, what have you sort of been able to take from all these experiences? Keith Thomas (42:59) I like to believe when I'm picking things up. But when I'm next to someone like Tyka, it's like, I'm not there. Madelyn Cunningham (43:01) Sure. Because it is a technical science. It is scale. is proportion. It is color theory. And I think you can definitely pick up things here and there, but you kind of are like, you know what? This is why there's pros. I love that. I love that. Well, talk to me about, I mean, you're always doing something new. You're always on a new adventure. Keith Thomas (43:11) Yes. Exactly. Yes. Madelyn Cunningham (43:31) Talk to me about maybe what you're currently working on or what's up next for you or what you kind of hope you can get into next. Keith Thomas (43:38) Well, the expectation, what we will see next with Design My Space is there will be more. yeah, so there's more coming down the pipe with that. I've had a passion as a musician to tell music-based stories, and we have several in the works by my partner. Madelyn Cunningham (43:46) Season two. Keith Thomas (44:00) and crime, Michael Smith, who collaborated with me. He was a producer on Design My Space. We're working on several music documentaries that are in the development process. And I can't really give too much away about that. But these are stories that are near and dear to my heart and coming from a music background. It's nice just to be able to... have the things that I am passionate about storytelling and music kind of in one space. So there are several music projects that are coming down the pipeline in that lane. And yeah, it's an interesting season to be developing in, as you know. I've had some wins over the last 12 months and I in 25, I plan on having some more wins. Madelyn Cunningham (44:40) Yeah. Keith Thomas (44:47) Yeah. Madelyn Cunningham (44:48) Very good, love that. I can just see how you light up when you talk about your music projects. And I follow you on Instagram, so I see you out there. you are so incredibly talented and your sensibility for music is really so incredible. the fact that you can work on these docu projects and be able to speak the language of your subjects. it's so important and I'm sure that's just gonna reflect on the other side like your other shows. So really excited and can't wait to hopefully see more. Before you go, I wanna ask you, if you could credit one thing about your character or personality to your career, what do think it would be? Keith Thomas (45:26) Almost where we started our conversation, I guess we can end this conversation. I credit my success to the strong women in my life. Now I have great men who have taught me wonderful, wonderful things. It's the women, my grandmother, my mom, my sister, who are the storytellers. And they have put in me just this passion of being able to capture thought, convey emotion, and really understanding how to get something inside of you. I listen to them and I credit their wisdom and insight what they've deposited in me for my success in this space. Madelyn Cunningham (46:24) That's lovely. I love to hear that. It's really beautiful. And I can say it's so apparent in your work and just in the arc of your career that you're someone who's so incredibly open, collaborative, passionate. Whether you're talking about true crime, culinary, TV, music, that passion is so infectious. And... And you're also just an absolute blast to be around. you do create that community, whether I run into you at the airport or whether you're on set. So just so happy to know you, so excited for everything that you have going on. And fingers crossed on season two, Design My Space Atlanta, and really looking forward to the other projects you have coming up. Keith Thomas (47:05) Thank you so much. appreciate this opportunity. It's always great to see you. Yeah. Thank you. Madelyn Cunningham (47:09) You too, Keith. Thanks. Madelyn Cunningham (47:18) You know how there's people who, when you're around them, they zap your energy. And people you interact with who give you energy, you leave the interaction feeling more energized. That is how I feel about Keith. And I hope you feel the same way after listening. Thank you all for being here. Thank you for listening. Thank you for the emails. Thank you for the DMS, the ratings, reviews, all the things supporting this podcast, supporting me. I appreciate it all so much. I'm going to take a little summer break. I'll be back in August. Be sure to follow us on Unscripted Files Pod. If you haven't rated and reviewed the podcast already, please do so. It'll help me so much when it comes to booking guests for next season. Every little bit counts. Feel free in the meantime to shoot me a message with the guests you want to see, the types of roles or positions that you want to hear from or any... Any other curiosities you have and I'll do my best to address it Thanks for being a listener and we'll see you in a couple of weeks on the unscripted files. Madelyn Cunningham (48:13) The Unscripted Files is brought to you by Good Gravity Entertainment. Thank you to producer Bonnie Adams, Original Music by composer William Wright, Artwork by Lisa Schweikart, and Photography by Reid Schick.