Naomi Smith (00:00) You don't know what these contestants are gonna do in that space. So you kind of give them a playground to play with. So we have to really think about how are they gonna interact with everything? Madelyn Cunningham (00:15) Hi there. Happy Friday. Welcome to the unscripted files. My name is Madelyn Cunningham and I have candid conversations with the minds behind your favorite form of entertainment. This week we have an art director and set decorator on the podcast. Talk about her work on Hulu secret chef, love is blind, the cube. ⁓ what else? A hot ones, Titan games. The list goes on. She talks about her approach to her work She also tells me why we should be increasing our budgets significantly in our line items when it comes to decor because the prices just keep rising. So if you're line producer, producer, development producer, tap in. Anyway, I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Atlanta native art director and set decorator, Naomi Smith. Madelyn Cunningham (01:09) It's me. Can you hear me now? Hello. Hello. Naomi Smith (01:11) Can you hear me? ⁓ yes, I can hear you. Okay. Madelyn Cunningham (01:12) can hear you, can you hear me? Okay, good. Naomi Smith, art director out of Atlanta, Georgia. How you doing today? I'm doing good. How are things in hot Atlanta right now? Naomi Smith (01:20) to and well. How are you? You know, the weather keeps changing, so it's hot, it's cold, it's raining, you you just can't figure it out sometimes. Right now, it's like a nice, it's a nice weather, really nice. You can be outside and tank top in a t-shirt, it feels great. Madelyn Cunningham (01:38) Yes, and then tomorrow it'll be freezing cold. Naomi Smith (01:40) Possibly, yes. Madelyn Cunningham (01:41) What are some of your favorite things to do in Atlanta when you're not working? Naomi Smith (01:45) Hmm. I love trying new restaurants. That's something that I love. Right now we're in the season of where yoga outside is always great. Been doing that and just hanging out with friends when I can since the industry is a little slow. I get to see some of my friends more. Getting ready to go to Mirth and Mischief on Friday. Just preparing for that. And then of course it's Friday. Madelyn Cunningham (01:49) always something. What's Naomi Smith (02:08) So lot of my Ren friends, the ones that do Ren Festival, we're all going to it and we're all going to be these big, glorious fairies. Madelyn Cunningham (02:15) Oh my gosh, I was just telling a friend recently. was like, I want so badly to go to a Ren Faire and just go all out. Okay, so you and your art design, you have all your fairy outfit complete. Oh my gosh, that's so fun. Okay, I need to do this. I've been telling people I wanna go to a Ren Faire. How much of a blast is that? Oh my gosh, that's so fun. Okay, so. Naomi Smith (02:32) most of it, yes. Madelyn Cunningham (02:43) Like I said before, you are an art director, set director, you have some amazing scripted and unscripted credits. We'll focus on the unscripted today, but I really, I was looking at your scripted credits. Those are like some of my favorites, but the Cube, Secret Chef, the Titan Games, Dwayne the Rock, Johnson, Love is Blind, Hot Ones, just to name a few. So how would you describe the role of an art director on unscripted reality compared to scripted? Naomi Smith (03:07) Well, on scripted TV or film, our director usually always works closely with the designer, usually driven off of the story of whatever the production has already set in place. Everything is built around that narrative and down to the tiniest detail. And for unscripted, it works really well. Our directors are more creating flexibility, visually engaging environments that feel authentic. to what like the high functioning of filming. You have to also think about camera flow and think about where the contestants and the cast movements are, how are they interacting with the space. And always thinking about multiple angles, because with these unscripted reality TV, there is multiple cameras in that scene. So you need to know where they're gonna be placed. And it's a 360 of decorating it out. working with every department, the set deck, the props. And usually also with this, you have less prep time. So it's a huge team that you have to work with and making sure that you're on top of that color palette. But yes, I always lean towards the designer, whether I'm the art director, whether I am the set decorator or in props, leaning back towards the original design of what we have set in place. Madelyn Cunningham (04:20) know, in scripted you have your coverage. Like you know what you're shooting from where, you can cheat, you can whatever. But in unscripted, even though there, you know, if it's a big shiny four competition and there's choreography, you do have to really ensure that, yeah, from 360 degrees, it can be interacted with, it can look good, you know, whether it's a big competitive obstacle course or a couch on love is blind. And you have to kind of make sure that you're prepared for any interaction with the set or any outcome, right? Naomi Smith (04:53) Yes, exactly. You don't know what these contestants are gonna do in that space. So you kind of give them a playground to play with. So we have to really think about how are they gonna interact with everything? And does it feel authentic and real? We're creating spaces that has to feel like for an audience, don't want it to feel too heavy in production. Like you want it to feel genuine. Madelyn Cunningham (05:17) I'm sure like balancing the aesthetic versus authenticity is really interesting. How do you do that? Naomi Smith (05:27) Lots and lots of planning, also approval. If it goes up to the designer looking at everything and all the options, we're also thinking about within the budget. The budget's already, it's already placed, so you have to stay within that budget. You create a giant spreadsheet and a mood board of everything without the pricing, and only the pricing will be discussed between you, the designer, Madelyn Cunningham (05:39) always. Naomi Smith (05:56) the production designer and the set decorator and props and we put together all these mood boards and see what works. Sometimes what we give might not be what they're looking for so we have to keep showing more and more options until things are approved. Usually within a budget there's always a cushion room so we try to at least get like three to four different options of these couches or even like smaller things such as the armchairs or even decor. giving as much option as possible when we're putting it all together in the space. So we always also plan for that as well. Madelyn Cunningham (06:30) my gosh. what's okay. So I, there's so much I want to dive into here, but I do want to back it up real quick. Cause I want to talk about how you got into this because especially in the unscripted industry, like if someone asks you, what's the pipeline to the job that you do, like everyone has a different story, right? And there really is not, there's not really a pipeline. So, you know, is this what you always wanted to do or, or what was kind of the journey to, to land right here and what, and what you're doing. Naomi Smith (06:56) my journey is kind of everywhere. Really, it's all about who you know in your network. If one person worked really well with you, they're gonna pull you in from one project to another. I will say to anyone who's listening, everyone you work with is connected. If they really like working with you, they're gonna refer you to the next project. They're gonna refer to your friends. Producers are all connected. There's a very tight-knit community in Atlanta. Everyone knows everyone. And they're generally connected with the other cities of LA and New York. And if you're really good at what you do, you're friendly to work with, you're professional, you're on time, you're attentive to detail, sense of urgency, those skills are very important for every department but specifically also for art since that's what we're talking about. And you're going to be referred to the next person and they're going to work with you. Madelyn Cunningham (07:50) Yeah, it is such a network and relationship driven industry. ⁓ Talent is like a piece of it, ultimately you can be really good at what you do, but if you don't make that 10, 12 hour day on set pleasant for everyone, if you're not, being efficient and trying to make sure everyone, gets out on time and then, you know, you won't be asked back. so what, when you look at how you got into Naomi Smith (07:53) Mm-hmm. Madelyn Cunningham (08:12) doing what you're doing right now, getting asked back on projects, being your own boss and having consistency in this world, what were some of the things you did to ensure that you would consistently get asked back on projects? Naomi Smith (08:24) I PA'd probably about six different departments from wardrobe, makeup, camera, art department, props. I PA'd all the different departments to find where I fit in best, and I grew my network from there. When... When you work well with various groups, since I PA'd so many different departments, I got a chance to expose myself to many different groups of people and learning where my skills fit in best. And I kind of leaned towards other people saying, hey, you're very good at this. You're very good at this. maybe you try this department more and they would suggest me to their friends or be like, hey, you can reach out to so and so and see if they need help on projects. back in the day, let's just say like 10-12 years ago, I did Lifetime and Hallmark. I did a lot of HDTV back in the day when Property Brothers was really big and Home Makeovers was really big, did all of that. I met a lot of the producers that also did like a uh-uh, say yes to the dress. So all that back then, like I PA'd a lot of big reality shows in Atlanta and it was absolutely wild. With those families, they do move around. Some of them move to bigger shows, some of them move into feature films, and you kind of just follow where people go. That's why I say you have to... Madelyn Cunningham (09:32) Yeah. Naomi Smith (09:46) be professional with everyone that you work with, because you don't know where everyone's going to end up. I've had my foot in every industry from the feature world, from TV world, unscripted, scripted, narrative. I do a lot of short films. I would say to keep your passion and to stay busy in your position is just try it all. Try it all, specifically when you're young. See where you go, what you belong, like what is your tribe of people and where do your skills fit in best? Just because right now it might not work. workout, know, just try it again, but always leave room to grow. Like for me, I feel like I don't have an ego. I don't mind. even though now I'm an art director and production designer and set decorator, I don't mind helping out my friends' project and just being a set dresser for a day or two days just on a short film project. I like helping out my friends. I like being also part of the film festival circuits and seeing where these projects end up. And it's... That's kind of where I feel like my appreciation to seeing these projects grow and you don't know where it's going to be taken worldwide or national, whether it's going to go into Sundance or South by Southwest. Always keep your, you know, keep your skills up. Try every department and don't have an ego. Like there's always room to grow. Madelyn Cunningham (11:13) So once you started getting into and trying, you know, set decorating, what really like resonated with you about this position specifically in this department. Naomi Smith (11:22) understanding inanimate objects really like I've always understood color theory. feel like in college, that was one of the classes I really enjoyed color theory and texture and really dissecting and breaking that apart from college to now. I deeply understand color. complementary colors, supplementary colors, how it looks on camera, the mood, the psychological aspect to it. It's important to always think about those things. And it also is important to think about how objects plays a role. With set decoration, You're creating an environment, whether it's real or not real, whether in a location or completely built from scratch in the studio. You're building these worlds and you want it to feel seamless. All these textures are important. Layering is important in these worlds that we're building. In every room, like what kind of room are you in? Are you in a living room, a kitchen? What era is it in? Are you in the 90s, the 80s, 2000s, todays? Are you, you know, is the... character, you know, wealthy? Are they middle class or are they poor? they college student? How old are they? Are they black? Are they white? Are they Asian? Like you have to think about all these things. You have to think about how it plays a part in your objects, your decor, the propping. The whole design aspect all is and there's a lot of communication with every department head and keeping that conversation constantly in your preparation before the shooting days. Like if you don't know something, know, text the department head. Make sure everyone is CC'd in the email. Everyone is seeing it. If you're confused about something, just ask the question. Reread something like, this part of the script doesn't make sense. Like, are we going to, you know... Madelyn Cunningham (13:06) That part. Naomi Smith (13:17) you know, what kind of continuity. Like sometimes you have to also adjust to whether the script is correct or whether it's not and you'll be like, is this a continuity thing or is this part of the narrative? Is this just part of the unscripted world? With the undescripted world with contestants in TV shows, like reality TV shows, you don't know what the contestants are going to do. So you have to kind of prepare for it. and with that you have to also keep in mind, like food is a prop like these people have to eat. they are definitely, they have all types of alcohol that they will be drinking though. We keep that all in the kitchen, whether it floats around in the house or not is all them. and also like all the games, when you think about these reality shows, you have to think about how these games are going to be played and whether these props are going to hold up. with constant repetitive motion and also hand making all these, like some of these trophies, some of these medallions that they will be winning, that sort of thing. It's all in consideration. Madelyn Cunningham (14:18) Yeah, a huge functional element, I want to get into some of your inscripted work. You've worked on everything from dating to culinary, shiny floor, big competition like we discussed. I mean, has there been a favorite sort of project you worked on so far and why does it kind of stick out to you? Naomi Smith (14:33) Hmm, there's, I did work on season one and two of the cube. for that, I was both the buyer and season two of the cube, I was a coordinator, but I was kind of also the buyer as well. Like I would go and get whatever is needed. that one stood out to me the most because I worked for on it from beginning to the very end of the whole process, all the prep work, all the shooting days. The cue was very interesting because I had to think about where to find certain things and for season one it was in the middle of the pandemic. Madelyn Cunningham (14:58) Hmm. Naomi Smith (15:12) And that was very hard because we couldn't get things internationally. And I had to find all of the manufacturers that were local to, you know, the US manufacturers. Like, I remember the art director, he messaged me and he's like, we need blue balls and red balls for the games. I was like, okay, well, what diameter? Madelyn Cunningham (15:14) Yeah. Naomi Smith (15:38) kind of balls. ⁓ Madelyn Cunningham (15:39) Right. Are we talking dodgeball? we talking like ball pit ball? Like what's happening? Right. Naomi Smith (15:44) All of the above. Like I had to go find brands that didn't have their brands in a big label. It had to be the same color as the ball. So we wouldn't notice it on camera. Then I also had to think about the material of the ball. I had to order everything by whatever I could, whether minimum order. I remember one time I pride myself on the fact that I can find anything. Madelyn Cunningham (16:16) I like that. That's one of the things you like. That's one of your calling cards. Yeah. I like that. Naomi Smith (16:20) Yeah, and one of the things that the art director, Jerry, he stated that, hey, you know, we're looking for ball pit balls. We need to have 200, 200 or 300 of each color. And I was like, okay, let me find that for you. And that was for season one of the cube. And I remember calling around and getting quotes. So I had to not only consider the size of the ball, the color, I needed to consider the shipping, the fastest way can get to Atlanta. And I did find one in Greenville, South Carolina. They were a local manufacturer for Play Pit balls and they could ship it to Atlanta in under a week and have it get here on time. And I was just like, yes. Madelyn Cunningham (17:11) Incredible. Naomi Smith (17:15) But then I also in Georgia, there was another company that here we have a company that makes pinballs. We needed also various size stainless steel balls with weight to them. And luckily we have a manufacturer in Georgia that makes various size balls for pinball machines. So I called them up and I was like, hey, you know, what do you have in stock? How many can I get? What's the fastest we can get it shipped to Atlanta? And I went through that process again and we ordered from him and he was local. And so that was easy. And I started tracking. So I have all these rosters of vendors. Yeah, for anything. And really just considering where can I get certain things and having to order maybe also extra things too, because we have to consider. Madelyn Cunningham (17:54) for anything you can imagine. Yeah. Naomi Smith (18:06) Will these things break? How many do we need? There's always two teams. With the cube, we had at least two teams. So I have to also consider the teams, how many things, always having extra. But on my job was also buying all the containers that all of these props go in, separating it out, and having them all labeled to each game. Madelyn Cunningham (18:29) Oh, so you're the home edit now. oh, that's crazy. Yeah. Wow. Naomi Smith (18:30) ⁓ It was me and all the set dressers. That was one of our biggest tasks. And then also knowing the acrylics, any of the acrylic manufacturers too, because there was a heavy amount of acrylics. Because the first thing of the cube is the cube came from the UK. They shipped... Madelyn Cunningham (18:51) Yeah, the actual like cube that everyone competed in. Was this, I'm looking at this format right now with Dwayne Wade. Was this like a format similar to Love is Blind that was born out of the pandemic where it was like, ooh, we can keep you sequestered in this cube and none of your germs can get out. Or do you think it just happened to work out? Naomi Smith (18:53) Thank you. it really depends on the producers. can't speak about the producers, but I do know with the Cube season one, it was a learning curve because we couldn't everything from what the UK was doing into the U S they wanted to make the U S, the season one, exciting for a new audience. So they had to, they, did modify some of the games. lot of the games had to be changed. Yes. And then it was modified for the U S audience. Madelyn Cunningham (19:11) Okay, sure. Mmm. okay. came from, the format came from the UK. Got it. I see. Okay, interesting. so the, so I mean, what other, okay, so playpen balls are an example. What's another example of like a weird challenge, like creative problem solving is such a part of your job. What's another example of like a crazy weird thing that you had to accomplish that you're like, yes, I did that. And it seemed impossible. Naomi Smith (19:54) there's always a moment where there's going to be a weird ask and you're just going to have to be flexible into figuring out this solution to the problem. I can immediately think of cleaning supplies again with like, you know, when I think of hot ones and also when I think of the cube, cleaning supplies is very important for all these things. We have to sanitize it. And remember with these during the pandemic, we had to sanitize everything that anyone touched. Madelyn Cunningham (20:20) everything. Naomi Smith (20:21) because we couldn't have one contestant. Specifically, we were always protecting the host. We had to sanitize everything constantly after a game ended and at the end of the day. And what sanitizing, what disinfectant or sanitizer or wipes will not ruin the item, will not pull off paint, will not scratch the item, what material is good, what kind of microfiber cloth is used, how many people can touch it, how often do we use it, can we wash it or we have to use everything new? Like that's all in consideration. Madelyn Cunningham (20:54) it's so much to consider so the cube is a good example of something you were brought on to from the beginning. When you're brought onto a project, kind of what's the starting point? What are you first getting introduced to? Is it a mood board? Is it a treatment? And once you've received that information, what is your kind of creative approach to your next steps? Naomi Smith (21:14) When I'm brought on to a project, I'm given a lot of information in a very short amount of time. You're given the shooting days. We start breaking it down by like if it's a game show, what games are for what day, how is... How's everything gonna be shot? All of our meetings are planned out in advance. We have to always strategize usually in the beginning of the week. And then we have a breakdown usually, breakdown of everything for the following week on Friday with the entire group. So I just let them run the whole thing and then I'll ask my question to very specific people at the end of the meeting because I wanted to be able to have my question directly answered to who needs it to be answered. I also am mindful now that you should probably ask questions in an email versus being in person because you want it written out. So if someone said X, Y, and Z, you know that they said that. They know that they said that. And you wanted to see see the right department head. So if you had a question, maybe someone else has that same question as well. So you have to consider that like the first week and you wanna keep up with it. You wanna always communicate through email as like a trail of all these different things. Madelyn Cunningham (22:27) it's very important to have that paper trail really on any project. learned that kind of the hard way, but, and also just for yourself to even refer back to there's you're juggling so many things at one time, that, know, you being able to refer back. is super, super important What's some of the most unexpected inspiration you've pulled for a set design or for a piece of decor or for an object? Naomi Smith (22:49) Unexpected. Madelyn Cunningham (22:50) Mm. Naomi Smith (22:51) It just really depends on the show. Like for Hot Ones, was like a kitchen, more kitchen inspired set that I helped decorate. The Goat was in a mansion and everything was very high end, beautifully like made, pulling from all types of stores. I think we had a list of 10 different vendors that we used from like... Madelyn Cunningham (23:03) Right? Naomi Smith (23:14) Wayfair, a little bit of Amazon, a lot of Target, a lot of Pottery Barn. So you have a lot of stores that you're pulling from. And we do consider that in the state of Georgia for the tax incentives, we want to pull from stores that are here. They're, you know, usually in the beginning of a meeting, I will ask like, we want to make sure that stores are here. Do we buy it locally? Madelyn Cunningham (23:21) Mm-hmm. Naomi Smith (23:40) before we choose an online vendor to pull from. We want to see if we can get it in person as much as possible Madelyn Cunningham (23:47) The Goat's a really fun show. So it is like, it's basically, it's like who can be the greatest reality show contestant of all time, right? So I can imagine that the decor for that was like a bit over the top and really just fun. So what was some fun about that show specifically? What was your very specific role in it? And what was just some fun, you know, sort of... vignettes or things that really stuck out to you for that show that you had a good time doing. Naomi Smith (24:15) Sure, with the goat, I was the set decorator and I was allowed to pull on a team of people for my team so I had some buyers and the PA. I did not pull on my lead man for this, the designer pulled on her lead man that she was working with so I had to communicate through. all the people that she already pulled from. And so my biggest thing is this is only concentrating on the decor for each room of the mansion that we were doing production in. And there was a lot. So I... When I got first pulled on, I saw her inspiration deck. I saw her mood board. So this was a rough idea of like, how did she want everything? As she was concentrating with other stuff with the art director and the production meetings, I was just creating a whole list of everything on a drive and I had to pull each item. And I had to label it by what room it goes in, which bedroom it was, female or male, or which living room, the kitchen, we were heavily in the kitchen and the breakfast area. And I had to always consider everything. And it's like every little detail was considered. lot of drapery, lot of drapery, lot of big long windows in this mansion. Madelyn Cunningham (25:38) ⁓ and I'm sure dressing them too to not only because of lighting situations like functionally, but to give that luxe like very lush feeling as well. Naomi Smith (25:48) Yeah, I had to think of curtain rods. I had to think of like how they're going to be hung and we had to measure out the dimensions. Like that was something that was highly considered because in a mansion, everything is custom. It's not like a normal, normal house. Everything is custom. So we have to also make sure that we're getting everything to the right measurements. And you can't miss these like You can't miscalculate. So that was the first thing is going to all the locations. Me, the lead man, the art director, all went to all the locations with the PD and we all wrote down everything together and constantly communicating together. I'm always constantly communicating with the art director and be like, hey, do you have the layout of the rooms yet? Can I see them? Is your measurements the same as this? Like just double checking and triple checking these measurements. Can this couch fit here? Can this seven-foot couch fit in this space and how many pieces we needed to build for this space? So I was as a set decorator. I was only pulled on for prep I was not there for any of the games when they were shooting which was wild I worked on Love is Blind the very first season as a set dresser. And that was wild too. Like, oh my God. Madelyn Cunningham (27:09) Well, and getting to be a part of that in the first season too, because that format at the time was so revolutionary. Like it was so groundbreaking ⁓ and has continued to be now, I guess, after it's what, third season? Naomi Smith (27:19) Mm-hmm. Madelyn Cunningham (27:24) Talk to me more about that, that's fun. Naomi Smith (27:26) Yeah, so it was I was originally as a day player and then I stayed on for the rest of the shooting days. I just didn't be I was in day player anymore and I loved the art director on there. He exactly knew what he wanted. What I remember from that experience is he didn't constantly change his mind and once he was set you didn't have to worry about it. That was so relieving to have an art director exactly knew what they wanted and just didn't have to worry about anything. One thing is you don't know when someone decides to get like married or not because you don't actually know if the marriage is going to happen. You don't know if this person is going to walk down the aisle and you know in season one do they? Do they not? There was a couple times that they didn't and it just like ruined like oh it saved our day as crew because we didn't have to do all this. Madelyn Cunningham (28:05) Right. Right. Sure. You're like, I'm done. Naomi Smith (28:22) But it was mortifying to witness the contestant like hysterically crying and like an entire crew is behind all these curtains. I was like, it was emotionally draining as a crew member to witness some of what was going on, but also quickly rush in, reset everything, redo it because let's say they wanted the contestant to redo this, whatever it may be. Madelyn Cunningham (28:28) Oof. Right. Naomi Smith (28:49) And you're like, just quickly just doing whatever and having everything set for the next day. But the next thing is having to tear down everything because we are out of that location today for that venue. And then we have to move into a house next day, like very quickly or a location or somewhere else. So that was probably the hardest part is there was a lot of overtime on that first season. There was a lot of scatteredness a little bit, just like not throwing things in the truck, but having to quickly move everything out of the way and package everything up like any of the breakables, you know, if the wedding didn't happen, pack it all, pack up all the decor. If the wedding did happen, just trying to figure out where all the stuff goes later. Cause you're really faking it all. Like not real. The people, Madelyn Cunningham (29:40) Right. Naomi Smith (29:44) who's real is their parents. The contestants are all like there, like are they falling love? Are they not falling in love? Like you know it's sometimes it felt really real. Madelyn Cunningham (29:54) Mm-hmm. Yeah. And do they, maybe they do this now, but in the first season, like, is each wedding very plug and play or did they try to, like, kind of customize it to the couple a little bit? Naomi Smith (30:06) It definitely customizable because we didn't want everyone to be the same. ⁓ So I would say we didn't always reuse any of the same decor or anything like that. Like if some of the glassware, sure, we might already use some of the glassware. Maybe some of their silverware was something that was so small and detailed that you wouldn't really fully notice. But mostly everything was like for that couple and customized for that couple. So Madelyn Cunningham (30:08) Yeah. Right. Naomi Smith (30:34) how we had to separate it out is by color, by color, by theme, by item of what they have for their wedding. So we did have lot of doubles of a lot of things. Madelyn Cunningham (30:47) Did you work a lot on what was, you the pods and, and the common areas and things and what was happening there? Naomi Smith (30:53) really beautifully done. The designer definitely did an amazing job at it. The builders definitely did an amazing job. It was actually very unique. Nothing that I ever really seen before. So that was all new to me. And I really appreciated that look during that time. But now thinking back on it, like how much has it spread out to all these other shows that are doing something similar with that concept. Madelyn Cunningham (31:19) Totally. Naomi Smith (31:21) And I also do know, I think the production designer did move on to many other shows using that same similar format. Madelyn Cunningham (31:28) Mm-hmm. Well, but even thinking about, know, obviously it has such a specific look, but the functionality of the pods, right? So thinking of like, we've got to separate them, but you want them to just be able to talk in a normal voice and hear each other without seeing each other. And then we're going to create this, I think the kind of partition where you can kind of see them touching or the outline of their bodies or whatever was there, like, and then pillows. became a really important sort of part of it. So. Naomi Smith (31:57) Yeah. I feel like that wasn't intentional, the pillows. To me, I feel like, okay, now we know that they're interacting with their space a lot. It was just decor. I feel like naturally we didn't think they would grab it, but now it's okay. Now we know, okay, they're gonna get real cozy in this very small space. Yeah. Madelyn Cunningham (32:08) Right. Yeah. Yeah, pillows, blankets. Yeah. Okay, so what you were on Lauren and Cameron season. I love them and they're still together. They're my favorite. And so are actually a whole bunch of couples from the first like Amber and, I forgot his name. Like there's a couple of couples from season one that are still together. Yeah, it's so it's funny like, again, seeing them in the pods, how much time they're spending in there. blankets, pillows, like, it was a really unique aesthetic when it started. And I've seen a lot of shows sort of borrow a lot from it, I think. But what a fun show to be a part of. What about, I you did a little bit on Secret Shelf. I love culinary formats and food. It's a whole different ball game. And I know that you have some experience because, correct me if I'm wrong, were you a culinary photographer and food stylist? Is that right? Naomi Smith (33:06) Oh, I'm still a food stylist. Yes. In the cultural world, yes. Madelyn Cunningham (33:08) You are, okay, great. Okay, got it. And so that's kind of in your bag a little bit, but on Secret Chefs specifically, what was your role and how did that show sort of with the cooking and, you know, food and perishable elements sort of throw in some challenges for you and your team? Naomi Smith (33:26) So with that, I was on prep primarily on the prep days and I was pulled on as a buyer working very closely with the art director and the PD before the set decorator came in. with this, I actually wasn't in any of the games. I was asked to do food styling, but I actually denied that role to do the buyer. buying just because I already knew the PD and the art director who I worked closely with because both the same for Secret Chef is the same art director for the Cube One and Two. And they also knew the art director that I worked with with the Hot One. So they're all kind of interconnected. With this, I was primarily just shopping furniture. The Secret Chef, their design was all very high end, very modern, very chic, a whole different kind of feeling, very colorful as well, vibrant. So I had to consider all these things. And once again, with buying, I had to get in the head space of the art director and the PD that I was working with and what they wanted. I did realize... After I left, they went way over budget from where I knew, which, you know, doesn't surprise me because I feel like when production plans these reality shows, I don't know if they consider the inflation of decor. Over the years, inflation of decor has gone up so much, so much. Madelyn Cunningham (34:55) Mmm. Naomi Smith (35:01) Like right now in today's world outside of when these shows were shot that decor now has gone up by a lot and productions aren't considering the prices of these anymore of items he asked for Projects that look very beautiful like secret chef was a very beautiful concept. I saw all the original stuff of what like the designer did and these beautiful layouts, like very vibrant. Like if you saw this show and you really paused, it was beautifully done. Absolutely stunning. And I really liked the show and the original concept and staying within that format and having to go out into the real world and try to find these items, like calling up literally hundreds of different. furniture stores trying to find the right color, the right fabric, the right shape, and then the right size of every item and then have it all shipped to Union City in Georgia like that movie studio in Atlanta Metro is where it all got shot and we took over like six stages of just stuff. also with secret chef we had to also consider all the electronics everything being weird Madelyn Cunningham (36:12) I Naomi Smith (36:14) knowing the exact size and dimension of lighting. Because when you look at Secret Chef, you can see all the lighting fixtures and everything that was put in. Because it was a cooking show. I had to think of sizes of all the stainless steel tops to like the range and the hoods. And we had to find order everything in duplicates because we were making more than one for each piece. And yeah, that was a lot to consider. Madelyn Cunningham (36:35) Mm-hmm. It is. You bring up something really interesting about how it seems that you faced a lot of under budgeting for your particular department. And I think it's an interesting time to talk about it right now with inflation on the rise, tariffs. mean, what if, I guess, you know, if If I'm a line producer, I'm looking at budgeting for a show, what is your insight? What is your advice? Multiply it by three? What are some things that on our side as development producers, as people who are budgeting, what are some things that we don't think about that we should be thinking about? Naomi Smith (37:17) Hmm. Definitely give yourself a cushion room with decor, since all the tariffs are terrible right now. You're gonna have to consider the vision of where all the money can go when it comes to the decor, when it comes to these games of these reality shows, when it comes to... Even the most mundane things like if you're thinking about getting these pillows, how many pillows are you going to get for each scene? How many throw blankets like? Very. Madelyn Cunningham (37:44) Well, and pillows are like 50 bucks. Like, at least. Pillows are so expensive. Why? Naomi Smith (37:49) Yeah. Well, I've noticed, I've also noticed coffee tables and rugs are so expensive as well. Like, why? I don't know why. Like, it's just like, everyone's up charging and when they're up charging, production needs to keep up with the up charging of the real world. We're, we're buying from real places. You know, there's only so many wholesalers you can go before some of it starts to look of bad. Some of the wholesale stuff doesn't look that good and you're gonna have to go to places like Pottery Barn and Target and West Down to get some like at least decent looking items, some chic items because nobody wants to just go to Ikea and buy the same old same old because it's all look the same. So sometimes we are warned by the designers or some of the producers. They're like look we don't want to support these brands right now unless we have to like using it more as a fluff like Madelyn Cunningham (38:18) Sure. All right. Naomi Smith (38:44) you know, if we need to put something there, yeah, we can find some other lower end item to place in this item. But also considering some of these shows, like Secret Chef was a beautifully expensive show. Like, because I remember looking at the designs and concepts, I'm like, this is going to be a very beautiful show. Very different from the Cube season one and season two. I think because with the Cube, I didn't see the full breakdown budget, but what I know is they're starting from something that came from the UK. They're not really starting from scratch versus I think that Secret Chef was starting from scratch. And Hot Ones also was pretty easy. to me, it wasn't extremely like overpriced. I don't think we went over budget with the Hot Ones. I definitely know with Secret Shop, like that kind of show, when you have something and you have all these producers wanting so much, wanting this show to be so beautiful, but not having the budget for it, you're gonna have to figure out like, what can you do? What can you do? You you don't want, like I always think of that meme with like, there's life of Pi and then there's like, you know, a child in a pool with a yellow cat. the reality of like, you don't want it to be that low end, but you don't, you can't reach life of Pi. There has to be like this middle ground of where we can move around money for our department because I feel like our department isn't always considered. And they really underestimate, because remember, I'm not even talking about the two other departments that are equally just as expensive, which is the construction side and the carpentry side and all the labor that goes into their department before we come in and dress everything. Madelyn Cunningham (40:33) Okay, so, but when you do have to make concessions or compromises where it's like, still want this to look, let's figure out how to do it, what are some things that you do? Naomi Smith (40:44) That's a big question. It really just depends on the show. It depends on what they're doing. Like with games, with the gaming shows, like do they need to do all these games? Yes, you can prep for all those games in advance, but if we don't get to it, we've just wasted a lot of money to prepare that and whether we can return everything or not is debatable depending on where we got it from. Madelyn Cunningham (40:46) Yeah. Right. Naomi Smith (41:14) so really just, it's very hard like to cut corners. I don't know. Like in our department, it's really hard to cut corners because everything in our department and set deck and props you see on camera. You see. Madelyn Cunningham (41:28) Right, and if you cut corners on things people are sitting on, sleeping on, utilizing, you can't really do that. Naomi Smith (41:35) Yeah. So I mean, as a buyer that's bought a lot for feature films, bought a lot for TV shows, huge big TV shows in Atlanta, my biggest resource is a lot of wholesalers trying to find the right wholesalers. for example, like I'm going to talk about this one vendor, Half Price Drapery. Half Price Drapery. It's exactly what it sounds like. Madelyn Cunningham (41:49) Mm. Naomi Smith (42:00) And guess who they, like I had a deep conversation with the warehouse manufacturer of all the brands that they support that mark up these drapery by so much. was like. Madelyn Cunningham (42:16) By so, drapery is crazy also. Naomi Smith (42:19) Half-Price Drapery. I will never buy drapery from anywhere else. The other thing is USA Rugs. I started using them maybe around six years ago too. And it saves a lot of money. Madelyn Cunningham (42:29) Mm-hmm. Naomi Smith (42:33) So you really, would say not cutting corners, but hiring the right person that has a huge vendor list. A vendor list that good relationships with people, because this is a big part of our business, really supporting, it doesn't even have to be in Georgia. Let's just say the shows in New York or LA as well. Madelyn Cunningham (42:41) Hmm. Good relationships. Naomi Smith (42:56) Knowing your vendors in that area if you can cut costs your costs is from shipping Cut the cost from shipping buy more local things support those vendors here And get to know all the wholesalers in your area or at least like southern-based ones for me I know all the southern-based one if I can find anything try to find the ones with the most resources When it comes to I mean the guests I haven't found a lot of ones with pillows and throw blankets, which is a whole nother item that I can just like go and look for. But at least I know with drapery and rugs, which that does cost a on how big your rugs are. Because some of these sets, I'll need like 9 by 13 rugs. Madelyn Cunningham (43:40) exactly. If someone wanted to get into this career, but you were like, it's great, but you spend a lot of time doing this, what is it? Naomi Smith (43:48) I spent a lot of time driving. Madelyn Cunningham (43:50) yeah, yeah. In Atlanta also, let's be real. Naomi Smith (43:51) driving from one place to I was the buyer on, I know you said unscripted, but this one is, this is unscripted, I was one out of four buyers working closely with the set decorator and the two assistant set decorators. Each one of us had a different location. to work on in a different room to buy. I was driving all over the place. I think I went to the outlets weekly, maybe every two days. I spent $45,000 in 30 minutes. So yeah, like I remember having to do research heavily. Like you have to know not only the head space of your decorator, Madelyn Cunningham (44:36) Oof. Naomi Smith (44:46) You have to know inanimate objects. what are our characters? Our characters are living in a mansion. What belongs in a mansion? What costs a lot? One of my duties that the set decorator placed on me was to go find appliances. And we had to find used appliances, which was fine. So I called up a couple of places and some of them I had to book an appointment to go into their warehouse. One of them was in Cobb County, somewhere in Cobb County, think, Mableton or I have to look back up that better. But it was a mom and pops like small little place, two warehouses in deep, like deep Cobb County. Like somewhere in between Kennesaw and another city like over there and I went through all of her stuff, photographed everything, sent it to my decorator and then at the end of that I looked at the owner I was like hey we're just gonna have to wait for her to reply back so you know is there a waiting room or like a break room that I could just because I can't leave that spot because she was in the middle of a meeting I knew that so I had to wait for her approval Madelyn Cunningham (45:46) Right. Right! ⁓ Naomi Smith (45:54) She sent me everything that she wanted. We wanted two Wolf range stoves, two Sub-Zero fridges, two wine coolers, huge, big, nice wine coolers, dishwasher, like I had to consider all of these things. And that's how I spent $45,000 in like 30 minutes. I knew exactly, because when I got there, when I got to this... Madelyn Cunningham (46:07) Mm-hmm. Right, yeah, that's so wild. Naomi Smith (46:22) store or not store this warehouse. I looked at the the owner and I was like look I'm looking for items that belong in a mansion and I want to look at the best brand items. That's all I want to look at and that's what she only showed me. So I went through the warehouse very quick just photographing very specific items and I also had to send the dimensions. So you also always in my position the things I always have in my car is various tape measures. Madelyn Cunningham (46:38) Mm-hmm. Naomi Smith (46:48) Sharpies, notepad, pen, just in case. Always a charger on you and a battery pack for your phone. No matter what situation you get in, you don't run out of battery. Use your phone so much. Use the storage of your phone so much. After a show, I have to delete. Madelyn Cunningham (47:04) I bet your camera roll is crazy. You have to go through a purge. Yeah. Yeah. Naomi Smith (47:07) Yes, a serious purge because I will be deleting probably 20,000 photos. I have to organize. You have to be very organized in these positions. You have to label everything. It really helps to keep track. Like I start to write on all of my photos and text and be like, this is for so and so, this is da da. And then write all the dimensions of every item because like Madelyn Cunningham (47:17) Mmm. Naomi Smith (47:32) If the decorator doesn't know or the designer doesn't know what they want, and they'd be like, hey Naomi, I remember that red couch that's like velvet. And let's just say you sent them 20 red couches that day. And they're gonna start describing this item in detail. You're like, my God, which one is it? And then they say something that's in there. And they were like, that lamp in the background of the photo, that one, that red couch. Madelyn Cunningham (48:00) Ding ding ding. Naomi Smith (48:02) And yeah. Madelyn Cunningham (48:04) I like that you said, I was going to ask you, are you, you know, you were talking now and earlier about measurements, notes, you know, when you're location scouting, when you're going through a set, are you pen and paper type or do you use an iPad? You use a mix of both because you're right. Documentation is important. Organization is important. Not only, you know, on the side of just buying, but like on the record keeping budgeting side as well. Naomi Smith (48:31) I'm a mix of digital and pen and paper. There's pen and pencil that I work with and I like to write things down because it just helps me. The more repetitive I write it, the more I can remember what it is, what character, what location, and then writing all the dimensions and then I have to translate that into digital, which that's also multiplying to always constantly remember any information you need. for every set that you're on and it helps for each room like going to multiple locations you know in the very beginning of prep when the production hasn't chosen the location yet you're writing detail out to each location that they haven't chosen so luckily you're gonna have two or three of everything depending on on the situation and then you're gonna go back there again repeatedly breaking it down and measuring everything out again, just to make sure you have everything. And I try to always take full photos of every location I have, just so I know the space. And I would say spatial awareness is something to, it's a skill. It's definitely a skill. Like I can walk into a room, an empty room and fully visualize what everything is. Like I have that. Madelyn Cunningham (49:51) I'm so jealous. I could not do it. I could not, you could be like, well, that couch fit there. And I'd be like, don't know, don't know. And I feel like that is a skillset that you have really mastered. And it's something that is so critical to this job. Naomi Smith (50:07) Yeah, imagination is definitely important, but not everyone needs that skill. Some people are more technical and sometimes they can just measure it out. Usually, everything is mostly everything is standard measurements. If it's made in the US or roughly if it's US like anything from Target, West Elm, like everything has a standard size. Like when you sit on a chair from the seat to the floor, That's a standard size. Same thing with like counter stools, bar stools, even dining chairs. All standard size generally until we go into like anything that's 80s, 70s, 60s, like anything going further back into a different era, then it's all becoming a different size. But in today's world, most things are standard size. So it's really helpful for me. Like once I get into Madelyn Cunningham (50:36) So yeah, right. Naomi Smith (51:00) the color palette of the designer and what they want, the aesthetic and the style. So once I understand that, I just hone in on that and I don't forget it till the end of the show. And half the time I feel like I'm having me just sometimes, because after a show, I forget everything. Madelyn Cunningham (51:18) Well, you have to make room for the next thing. You really do. It's like how, you know, I was like, how did I pass biology in high school? I couldn't even tell you anything right now except mitochondria, but it's cause we have to like make room for new stuff. So I'm sure just as you do a purge, like of your camera roll, your brain has to do that purge as well. Well, it's such an incredible skill set and something that is so critical. Naomi Smith (51:21) Yeah. Madelyn Cunningham (51:43) but into creating that world, into allowing you into this microcosm of this show, this dating show, this universe, and building that and world building. And I think it's so amazing. I have a question, a really fun question before we close out. If you could redesign the set of any reality show, past or present, what would it be and what would you do differently? Naomi Smith (52:07) wow. Man, if I could redesign this set. Madelyn Cunningham (52:09) Mm-hmm if you could just take like if you were like, the bachelor is so whatever I would do this Naomi Smith (52:15) Hmm. you know, I don't know if I ever disliked any of my designers decisions. Like, every designer has been different. Madelyn Cunningham (52:20) Mmm. Mm-hmm or shows shows that you haven't worked on like just shows that you've watched or enjoyed Where you'd like I'd love to take a stab at like like if you got tasked with like, okay rebranding This show like what would be a show that you'd be like, I'd love to like get in there Naomi Smith (52:39) You know... That is a good question. I mean, I've watched a lot of different kinds of game shows and know, like watching the show like Squid Games and then seeing the European of Squid Games and knowing that same producer from Squid Games in the European circuit is the same, one of the same producers as the Cube Season 2. And seeing that she created this entire world and then hearing all the backlash, there was so much backlash. Madelyn Cunningham (52:44) Mm-hmm. my god. Naomi Smith (53:07) that people like opened up about it. I mean, I would love to take a stab at it in like the US world and what that would be like. But I don't know if I would change anything, just try to approach it differently. like shows like Squid Games and then making it into a reality show is kind of fun. Madelyn Cunningham (53:25) Like adapting that sort of like scripted world over. Yeah. Naomi Smith (53:28) Yeah, taking another show, maybe taking some of the exciting fun game shows that, not game shows, TV shows that has been turned into games, and then taking that into an actual game show. Since gaming, yeah, all that's been cool. Or even like The Last of Us is such a successful show. Can you imagine it being like a fun game show? Madelyn Cunningham (53:42) Yeah, Bridgerton, please call us. Would that be so fun? ⁓ totally. Naomi Smith (53:55) Like, you know, I love shows where someone gets to win something as well. Like the cube, you know, even if the contestants didn't get that far in the game, they won something and they got something out of it and they all had fun. I think that's why I always go back to that show a lot is because it wasn't stabbing at someone's psyche and destroying them from the inside out. Some of the shows that I've worked on will do that to you. The hot ones, it's fun, like as well. That's a fun show to work on. It was a good show, good crew, great people, contestants for fun and silly. I also worked on, I think it's called, Can You See My Voice? That's a show that I was a set decorator on as well, and I designed the sets there. All the contestants were fun. Madelyn Cunningham (54:24) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Naomi Smith (54:49) Some of them were, you know, some of them were silly and like it was fun to really get to know some of the contestants because you had to put them into this space. You had to get photos and you know, we got permission to go through their Instagram and like select the right photos for the moment of it being seen on camera. Like things like that that are fun for the viewer and the consumer. I enjoy those moments. Madelyn Cunningham (55:06) Mm-hmm. Last thing I'll ask, what's the best piece of advice that you have ever gotten that you'd like to pass along? Naomi Smith (55:21) Some of the best advice that I've gotten, it's really about following up with people that you've worked with. Always staying professional, having a good attitude, being a team player. Don't have an ego. Just remember there's always a lot of room to grow. I think that's very important to just... Keep trying to explore and don't be afraid to just work with other departments too. So if you feel like you're not in the right department, try a different one and seeing how it goes, like finding the right mentor. If one mentor didn't work out, don't be discouraged. Like there's still plenty of people out there that is probably willing to teach you the right steps. And in our department world, props and set deck, there's always... many ways to solve a problem. So just always keep that in mind. There's not just one way to do it. Yes, you're going to consider your bosses like way of how they do things. But also, over time, you're going to find a more efficient way to do whatever it is. And and just always be kind. I feel like that's very important. Like people want to work with kind people that aren't always trying to stab each other in the back just trying to get, you know, from point A to point B. Like, don't do that. So yeah. Madelyn Cunningham (56:37) I think it's easy in the industry to feel like there's not enough jobs for everyone and to feel, you know, an element of maybe competitiveness, especially when you are a, you know, a contractor who, you know, it's job to job, but I think that there is, there's enough room for everybody. There's enough jobs for everyone and the goodwill and karma that you receive by... putting people up for jobs and sharing your knowledge, I think is, it returns tenfold, I think. We need to get you a tape measure key chain Naomi Smith (57:10) They also have the digital ones too. You can buy it online. Yeah, so you need to measure from floor to ceiling or from wall to wall. A laser, having that digital one is very useful as well. Madelyn Cunningham (57:18) yeah, like the lasers. Yeah. Good to know, good to know. amazing. Well, thank you so much for coming on and really appreciate you sharing and hope that you have a great rest of your week and have a good time in Atlanta. Any upcoming things you're excited about? Naomi Smith (57:37) Yeah. But we're about to be in more festival season, so I'm very excited just to Atlanta culture, all the festivals happening and being outside since it's warmer. Madelyn Cunningham (57:36) Ren Fair. Yes. right? Totally, absolutely. Yes, 100%. Oh, awesome. Well, thank you so much again for coming on and chatting and we'll talk to you soon. Thanks. Naomi Smith (57:54) Alright, talk to you soon. Thank you. Madelyn Cunningham (58:02) Such a lovely conversation and great takeaway advice from Naomi. If you are ever looking for someone like her in Atlanta, I will include her information in the show notes. We gotta promote our talented people in the industry. For me personally, if I had to redo any design... I think the bachelor It would be really fun to get to do that for sure. Anyway, that's all for this episode of The Unscripted Files. Don't forget to like, subscribe, follow, rate, review all the things, and we will see you here next Friday. Have a great weekend. Madelyn Cunningham (58:37) The Unscripted Files is brought to you by Good Gravity Entertainment. Thank you to producer Bonnie Adams, Original Music by composer William Wright, Artwork by Lisa Schweikart, and Photography by Reid Schick.