Madelyn (00:06)
Hey, welcome to The Unscripted Files. My name is Madelyn Cunningham. I am a development producer in the unscripted industry, bringing you candid conversations with the minds behind your favorite form of entertainment. This is our last episode of the year. And in fact, last year around this time, I was right in the middle of developing this podcast, figuring out what I wanted to bring to my listeners, the creatives I wanted to highlight, the people on sets that we never hear from. And...

I got to do that this year with nearly 40 guests, which has been really incredible. So this episode, I'm not going to actually interview anyone.

some of my favorite moments, learnings from guests that I've had this year generous enough to share their insights, whether that be in their personal life or their careers. And I'm just going to share a few of those. And then I'm going to talk about things that...

I've learned in my journey through this podcast, as well as in the development landscape as a developer in 2025, the challenges that I've had, the practices that I've implemented for my creativity, for my career, and try to put a little bow on this year.

I want to thank you for listening. Spotify wrapped just came out and so many people had the unscripted files in their top podcasts and that meant a lot to me. I've had people reach out saying that they've listened, people who have gleaned insights. It's just been really wonderful. I feel like I've formed a bit of a community and that was always the goal.

Madelyn (01:33)
I started the show for a lot of reasons and one of them was just following my own curiosity and I always am looking to learn. Even though as a Virgo, I like to think I have it all figured out. And there's just so many moments from interviews over this year and guests that I've had that have stuck out to me. And if I mentioned these things and you haven't listened to the episodes, but you feel like it would resonate with you, go back and listen. Cause there's just so many good nuggets in here. Like we're not just talking BTS. Like these are things that apply.

to how you approach life and how you approach relationships and people. And there's just a lot of goodness in here. So I wrote down some, just gonna go through.

The first one that stuck out to me, and these are like not in any particular order, curiosity over judgment. This was director Sky Borgman who directed Unknown Number, the high school catfish doc. And it's so interesting because I went into this interview really mining for reactions from her. I was. I was trying to be like, give us something, like tell me how grossed out you were with the mom or like.

you know, tell me how shocked you were and you can't imagine. And I was so humbled with how Skye responded to my questions and how she was approaching the work and her creative

My father, the BTK killer came out right after we spoke, which is a project she did. abducted in plain sight. And I was just so humbled by the way that she prioritized curiosity over judgment, diving in deeper, not.

projecting judgment, not allowing that to guide her process. And I was really humbled by that conversation. It really stuck with me. It's probably why it's sticking out first in my mind, not only to apply that to my work, but in my everyday interactions. It was a really significant shift for me in my mindset. And I want to thank Sky for that. And thank you for sharing.

Another wonderful conversation that's text out to me that we had this year was with Geraldine and Grace Porras, the sisters who did the Bill Cosby doc. And a lot of our conversation centered on nuance and separating the art from the artists. It's a conversation that's happening a lot right now, especially in the age of what's happening with Diddy. There's so many instances in which this is happening and it will continue to happen. And I think we live in a world where

There's, want everyone, we want everything to be black and white.

I really loved the way that they described nuanced conversations. Even when they were talking about their project Freaknik, the greatest party ever told, there was a huge cultural impact that was so positive from that event. There was also a lot of negatives. And so I just, really loved the way that they were able to live in both worlds and acknowledge both worlds without invalidating the other. And I think

If we can continue to do that more as storytellers, we will be better for it. And if we can also continue to receive stories in this way, right, we will be better for it.

A conversation that I had early this year, I want to say he was my second or third guest, my friend Mac Macbee. He is a hairstylist on Southern Charm and Southern Hospitality. He's been a friend of mine for a long time. And there was so much he said that resonated with me, but one thing that stuck with me was ask for what you want. We live in a world right now where everyone, most everyone that you want to get to know, you have access to for the worse or the better, LinkedIn, Instagram.

social media, we have the least amount of barriers that we've ever had.

And I think it's important when you feel ready, when you feel equipped, when you feel as if you have something to offer that you do, you reach out and you ask for what you want. And I had a lot of people reach out to me after that episode and say, Hey, can I talk? Can I get a meeting? Can you connect me with a mentor? And I am so proud of all of those people for doing that. I hope you continue to do it again, not just professionally in your personal life as well.

I think we're seeing like a lot of weird hate with like Whitney Lovett and Dancing with the Stars right now her being so clear about what she wants, why she wants it, what she's doing. And it's been so interesting seeing the reactions out of that and seeing people be like, gross. I just think we have a lot to learn from this situation of being clear.

speaking things into existence and asking for what you want. worst thing that could happen is that they say no.

another really early conversation I had in the podcast, was with development consultant, Yael Agnal, and it changed the way that I approach my pitches, my presentations, And she said, it is a conversation, not a presentation. And I came from the ad agency world. You're doing RFPs, you're doing pitches all the time. So I really felt like I had.

the art of the pitch down. But when she said this, I really paused and was like, I'm doing it wrong. And it has changed the way that I pitched. It's changed the way that I approach everything. And.

It's changed the way that I start my pitches instead of the title slide where it's like, here, we're diving right in. I start with a cultural moment or a game or something that everyone can relate to and get to talking. I don't want to wait to the end for questions. I want questions and interest and energy in the beginning. And I really appreciate you all for.

saying this and really changing the way that I approach my

We knew this already, Emily Knight, was my guest, who created X on the Beach, she said, title, title, title. And everything that I took out this year, really, truly, I believe it broke through the noise because of the title. So it's easy, it's an easy thing to talk about, but whether it is a show, whether it is a product,

whether whatever it is, the title is everything. It needs to be sticky. It needs to be memorable. It needs to tell the full story. And it needs to make sense. It needs to tell the full story.

So thank you, Emily. Titles have been the thing that I've spent so much time on this year. And for good reason, they really do make a difference because everyone is judging a book by its cover or should I say the email subject line. So Diana Nolan, who we had just recently, the showrunner for The Real Murders on Elm Street and Friday the 13th Murders. Leave it better than you found it.

She said she takes a Girl Scout approach to everything. I really love that. in the nonfiction industry, we're dealing with all kinds of people, we are interviewing, maybe these individuals are talking about a tragic event, we are on a location, whatever it may be, Leave It Better Than You Found It

has been such an incredible thing for me to live by professionally and personally and

even if it's just that I'm going into a pitch and I want that person's mood to be better than it was when I got there. It extends across all parts and I think it's so important in ensuring that you are.

someone who is ethical and graceful and grateful and all the things. just, I really loved that from Diana and I'm taking it with me in all aspects of my life.

Keith Thomas, also an incredible guest. This is the episode about failure is an option. And he talked about how so many parents try to protect their kids from failure, but his parents embraced failure and was like, it's not a big deal. It's part of the process. And I loved that because

especially in an industry or in any industry where you're constantly putting yourself out there, you're subjecting yourself to a no, to rejection, to a not right now, it can be really tough and wear you down. But once you start to reframe it and see it as part of the process instead of something that you're constantly trying to dance around and avoid.

Everything changes and that conversation with Keith is really, it's one of our actually like most downloaded episodes and I highly recommend you go listen to it. Adam Newhouse, founder of Newhouse Creative, founder of the nonfiction hot list just a few weeks ago had, I mean, so many good pieces of advice as someone who's got thousands of pitches and seen tons of creative. But one thing I really love that he said and one thing that I tend to fall victim to is putting down your

pretty good projects. Putting down the projects, he actually has created a rubric for how to grade and assess his nonfiction projects that is really fascinating. It's on his LinkedIn. But, you when we have a slate, we have our A-listers and our Bs and our Cs. And he was talking about how...

We have to put down our pretty good projects to take a chance and allow more incredible projects to come in. We can't cling to things so hard that we're utilizing all of our energy on the okay things, on the maybe things that we miss out on something incredible coming in. And that takes a lot of trust in yourself, in the process.

opening up your capacity and your energy.

for something bigger and better.

instead of clinging to it just because you spent time with it or you had it. A lot about letting go there, I think, as well. And being brutally honest about your own projects, the potential that they have in the marketplace, not just in the marketplace of your own mind, which I do all the time. Elisa Tarago, our location scout out of Miami. I just was obsessed with her go-getter attitude.

I really do listen in an era that is really obsessed with boundaries and don't get me wrong, I am all about them. We have lost the art of saying yes. Like we have lost the plot. Like there is so much to be said for a team player. There is so much to be said for someone who's willing to help out, especially in our industry. There's so much to be said for saying yes to the party or the occasion or the meeting. And I think it...

And I think we've lost that a little bit. And I just love that Alisa brought that back to my attention of like, be a yes person, say yes, be willing to be a team player, help out there. I had a lot of guests where that say yes mentality was really the reason that they were able to level up from PA to AP to supervising to co-EP to EP, right? Like,

Matt Dissinger with the NFL, Sebastian Bassett and AP, like we had so Chris Decima, we had so many guests on this year

I think it's a power, not a weakness to say yes.

I loved that from Elisa.

and I, I had a lot of takeaways from our guests this year, and there's a lot of things that I did differently in terms of how I approached my work and my creativity. I just want to share a couple of things that I did that really helped me. And maybe they will help you I talked earlier about asking for what you want and how the worst thing that someone can tell you is no, right.

So I was finding myself really like anyone, getting upset by rejections, right? my stomach would drop and wait for the email and then my stomach would drop. And I just was like, and I would, and I was not sending out certain pitches or putting ideas out there because I was expecting, I was anticipating the no.

And so what I started doing was I screenshot every single rejection, whether it was a text from my agent or an email, the past, I started screenshotting them and I keep them in a folder and I look at them all the time. It's like exposure therapy. So I started to just look at them and be like, okay, this is what I'm afraid of. Some words in the email. That's it. That's all. And I just started, it started getting less and less scary. And I started visiting that rejection folder constantly.

it just got less and less scary. The more of these I get, the more this folder fills up, the closer we are to something good, which is exactly what's been happening.

I don't hide them, I don't delete them, I don't tuck them away. I look at them all the time because they're part of the process, they're part of my process I think it's so important when you're...

putting yourself in a place to get rejected or told no, whether that's someone that you just want to have a coffee with or it's a much bigger ask, respond with grace and gratitude. Always, always, always that is a given.

That is a given that is part of my process. Another like weird two worded alliteration thing is patience and persistence. A lot of the times it's tricky to figure out how often do I check in? When do I check in? Is it annoying? Is it not enough? Be patient, be persistent.

these things take a long time.

but it's so worth it to just tuck it back into your pocket. Don't forget about it. Reach back out, check back in, be patient, be persistent, have grace, have gratitude. embrace embarrassment. Like if it feels inherently embarrassing to get a pass, to get a rejection, to be left on read, like if that...

elicits embarrassment in you, just feel that it's just an emotion that we don't explore enough. We try to avoid it at all costs. It's an emotion, like explore it a little more. are you determining that you're embarrassed or are you assuming that the other person thinks it's embarrassing for you and you're allowing that to affect you? I've kind of figured out that I think embarrassment is something that only we can determine. Like if I tripped and other people saw it, I guess they could think that's embarrassing, but like,

who determines how embarrassing it is, you and the way that you react, right? I've considered doing some like embarrassment therapy, because I've seen people do this where they'll like, or like rejection therapy even where they'll go out and just like ask for stuff. Or they'll like go lay on a yoga mat in the middle of the street and just sit there just to be like, my gosh. Anyway, I'm considering embarrassment therapy, but like this is something that I really think we don't explore enough.

and we're so afraid of and it feels so cringe and it feels so this. And I just think that like there's so many opportunities on the other side of that if you push past it. you determine how embarrassed you get or that you are. that's something that you set for yourself. It's not something other people can thrust upon you.

I talked about having like all these screenshots in my rejections folder and there's like a hundred for every one yes, what that has really taught me this year is I would be so, so focused on the outcome of things. Like even when I was starting a project, I was so hung up on like, what's going to happen with this, that it was keeping me from actually going through the process of doing the work, exploring the creative and like, well, yes, we absolutely need to.

be concerned with like market viability and all these things. I learned that you can only control your inputs. You can't control your outputs.

I can only control how much energy I'm putting in, how much quality I'm putting in to my creative, to the pitches, to the conversation, to what I'm learning, to what I'm honing in on, to what I'm sharpening, to my understanding of the marketplace, to my relationships with everyone. I can only control those inputs. And if I focus on that, instead of really expending so much energy focused on outputs, I stop wasting that energy.

I start putting it more into my inputs and it really does pay off. it really has helped me this year and trying to focus a lot more on.

Sorry to be cliche, what I can control How can I be better

As we go into a brand new year, I know that everyone is going to be thinking of, you know, we're going to be making the list. We're going to be goal setting. We're going to be looking ahead. And I just hope that you don't put any limits on yourself. And I want you to be delusional and speak things into existence. Ask for what you want.

Embrace embarrassment, embrace failure, say yes.

be curious and.

And go for it. I cannot express how much I appreciate you listening. This show, the people I've interviewed has been so much fun. I wasn't sure how this was going to go. I went into it not having any goal other than to meet new people and to hopefully reach people who needed to hear what I had to say, whether it was development things or otherwise.

or reach people who were like me a few years ago and wanted to get into this industry and had no idea how. it's been so rewarding and I'm so grateful. Everyone who's listened and shared commented, I've had the best time and I can't wait to continue next year. So I'll take a little break and then I will be back early next year. I don't know when yet. I'm gonna take a little break.

But if you follow me on Instagram at Unscripted Files Pod, I'll be posting there. In the meantime, I hope everyone has a wonderful holiday season. Please rest, relax, and I'll see you in 2026.