Kim Doepker and Heidi Fagerness transcripts Gina Yonts So, Heidi and Kim, thank you for being here today. [00:00:11] We are going to be recording our podcast just around leadership and how it shows up in the framework. [00:00:20] But we’re going to get started. [00:00:22] Just a little soft entry here with thank you for being guests on our AWSP a matter of principals podcast. [00:00:30] We appreciate you both being willing to share your leadership journey and your success with, just kind of with the AWSP leadership Framework criteria. [00:00:38] It’s that time of year, it’s evaluation season. [00:00:40] And so we’re just collecting, leadership stories and work happening in the field, you know, really to highlight great leaders. [00:00:48] So I appreciate both, Heidi and Kim being here. [00:00:52] So, let’s go ahead and start. [00:00:54] We’re just going to ping pong back and forth. [00:00:56] Kim, I’m going to start with you, and then you can pass the torch over to Heidi. [00:01:01] Our warm up question is what first, are you into education and when did you realize leadership might be a part of your path? Kim Doepker [00:01:10] I knew that I wanted to be a teacher since I was in the first grade, and so every year I’m like, no, I want to be second grade and third grade. [00:01:21] I knew that was the path that I wanted to go, was I wanted to be a teacher. [00:01:28] Then the leadership piece. [00:01:32] I mean, throughout high school and college, I had taken on leadership roles, and I knew that was part of me. [00:01:37] And then even, I would seek out roles like teacher leader roles. [00:01:44] And that kind of helped pave the way that someday I knew I wanted to go into administration, but it was kind of my path along the way. [00:01:55] That’s how I’m here today. Gina Yonts [00:01:58] Heidi, what about you? Heidi Fagerness [00:02:01] Well, mine is a little bit different. [00:02:03] I’m an 80s lady, and, when I went to central, I wanted to be the next Barbara Walters or Jean Enersen. [00:02:09] I wanted to I was in communications, and I taught ski lessons up at Snoqualmie as my side gig. [00:02:15] And one of my first assignments was with a down syndrome blind student. [00:02:20] And I fell in love, went back, changed my major to special education, and so taught for 25 years, high school special ed. [00:02:30] And right about 23.5 years in, I had a really poor admin experience, and I’m just stubborn enough that I said, oh yeah, I could do that and I could do that a little bit better. [00:02:43] And so leadership was never in my, principalship was never in my, my cards. [00:02:49] But, also a woman of faith. [00:02:52] And I knew that I needed to follow that call. [00:02:54] So that’s why I’m here. Gina Yonts [00:02:55] Oh my gosh. [00:02:56] Well that’s super exciting to hear both of you. [00:02:59] Similar but different experiences. [00:03:00] But you’re both at middle school. [00:03:02] I had it heard at one point in my career somebody says, oh, I’ve done time in middle school. [00:03:08] And that made me feel really sad because really, I think middle school is rocking it. [00:03:13] So what’s your what’s your favorite thing about working with this, this age of children, this middle level age of kid Kim? [00:03:20] It’s May I know. Kim Doepker [00:03:24] I think I have a pretty witty sense of humor and, and I love to joke around and just kind of give it to them. [00:03:33] And they give it, they give it back. [00:03:35] And also that they have such they have really good ideas and I appreciate them, you know, emailing their ideas. [00:03:45] Sometimes it’s like, hey, Kim, what do you think? [00:03:49] I’m like, oh, well, I’m first name basis. [00:03:51] That’s fine. [00:03:52] They’re just This is the email. Gina Yonts [00:03:54] You, Kim. Kim Doepker [00:03:55] Oh, yeah. [00:03:56] Like, a lot like. [00:03:57] Hey, Kim. [00:03:58] Sup? [00:03:59] It’s like, hey, buddy. [00:04:02] But it is this growth, and I have found through the years that I love seeing. [00:04:07] You know what? [00:04:07] We’re glad you made the mistakes. [00:04:09] Now, let’s let’s make them now. [00:04:11] Let’s learn from them. [00:04:12] So when you go to high school. [00:04:13] Smooth sailing. Gina Yonts [00:04:15] I learned that. [00:04:15] Heidi. [00:04:16] What about you? Heidi Fagerness [00:04:17] I always thought I would be a high school teacher, and now our high school admin forever. [00:04:23] And now I don’t think I’ll ever go back. [00:04:25] I’m just quirky enough. [00:04:26] Just weird enough. [00:04:28] All the stereotypes of middle school, I, I hate to just say there’s never a dull moment, but, I guess just in a light, but also a deep, I would say, I think middle level deserves the best people, and I don’t like to boast and be so confident, but they deserve my love and the people that are serving them deserve my love. [00:04:54] So, And I can have a lot of fun with them. [00:04:57] I mean, Kim and I. [00:04:59] We’re a little bit more alike than you think, right? [00:05:01] We. [00:05:02] We can. [00:05:03] We can have fun at the same time. Gina Yonts [00:05:05] Oh my gosh. [00:05:06] I love that. [00:05:07] You know, I am perpetually going to be a seventh grade girl for the rest of my life. [00:05:11] It’s a life mission, so I. [00:05:12] I’m kind of right there with you. [00:05:14] I love the idea that they get my sense of humor, and other people might be looking at me like, what’d she say? [00:05:20] Yeah, they get it there. [00:05:22] They’re hanging in there with you. [00:05:23] So what’s something happening at your school right now that you’re particularly proud of? Heidi Fagerness [00:05:29] I’ll jump in on that one, Kim, if you don’t mind. [00:05:32] I hate to say the word testing, but, our staff did a data walk and got some voices from kids. [00:05:40] We’ve always done testing one way and it’s miserable. [00:05:45] We test for, like, a month long, and today was the first day of a brand new testing schedule in my AP made that happen. [00:05:52] There was a lot of, I don’t know, in the arena, in the arena, battling with our leadership team on how we were going to do it. [00:06:00] But, today kids were like, that was great. [00:06:05] We feel like we had so much time. [00:06:06] This is it was it went so smoothly. [00:06:09] So it just feels really good to to say something positive and felt good on a testing day. Gina Yonts [00:06:15] What was what was the biggest? [00:06:16] What was the biggest shift in thinking? Heidi Fagerness [00:06:19] We gave them a full 90 minutes. [00:06:20] We’re doing testing blocks, and instead of doing, you know, we used to test every day for a whole month. [00:06:26] So a week of English, a week of math, a week of science, in their classrooms. [00:06:31] And, after a day to cycle, our teachers just said this. [00:06:36] Maybe we should do something different. [00:06:39] So we’re trying something different. [00:06:41] Yeah, I’m different, so I’m kind of proud of that. Gina Yonts [00:06:43] Yeah, that’s that’s awesome. Kim Doepker [00:06:46] Well, on the lines of data we, we’ve held to our school improvement plan. [00:06:52] So we set out with here. [00:06:56] Here are the two goals. [00:06:57] You know, we want 100% of teachers to post learning targets. [00:07:01] Refer back to them. [00:07:02] The other thing was 70% of students, 80% of students will reach 70% or higher on CSA proficiency data. [00:07:14] Teachers had to put it in a Google form. [00:07:17] And then we looked at it. [00:07:20] And so quarter one was not good. [00:07:25] The questions on the format were not good. [00:07:27] So the leadership team, we refined them. [00:07:29] So we were able to put in quarter two. [00:07:31] We put in quarter three in each time. [00:07:35] We have data teams in I strategically put people together kind of that circle of influence. [00:07:41] And people were able to look at the growth and ask questions like, wow. [00:07:48] This seventh grade math. [00:07:49] Wow. [00:07:50] Here you went from here. [00:07:51] You went to here or eighth grade. [00:07:52] Ela. [00:07:53] Gosh. [00:07:53] What happened? [00:07:54] You went down. [00:07:55] And then the conversations and what I kept telling staff was, the biggest win right now is that we’ve talked about data and we’ve talked about it by grade level. [00:08:05] And everything has always been wondering I wonder why I wonder why. [00:08:11] And so that was that has been a big growth area. [00:08:14] And, we’ll pop in quarter four. [00:08:18] Probably won’t be able to meet, but we’ll put it out there. [00:08:20] But I stuck to it. [00:08:22] I didn’t go off on something else, and we were able to look at data in the same teams. Gina Yonts [00:08:28] I love that both of you really have talked about data and the importance of that. [00:08:32] And really there’s three criterion in the AWSP leadership framework that force you to really think about how are you using the data, how are you planning with it, how are you involving more people? [00:08:43] And I feel like one thing that I’m super proud of, both of your leadership being a part of the middle level GLC this year is the fact that you both were really trying on different sides of the state, trying to figure out this mtss thing, and that you have intentionally created a zoom space every week for people to come and to think through and talk through the big ideas. [00:09:06] And so I’m just wondering, just as we kind of move into thinking about how your leadership has really been impacted by the network and around data. [00:09:16] Yeah. [00:09:17] How is that influenced your thinking around mtss and data and how to use that with your your staff? Kim Doepker [00:09:26] I think when Heidi, I mean, what was kind of the catalyst for all this is Heidi jumping on during basecamp and said, tell me about Mtss as a new first your principal. [00:09:42] So that was then we thought, okay, we’re just going to set up a couple times a month. [00:09:47] People can come in and talk about different systems. [00:09:51] I mean, it evolved into more it was more like connecting. [00:09:54] But then, we presented to our middle levels and we were like, we don’t have the answers. [00:10:02] I mean, we don’t have the answers at all, but where are you at on on a continuum. [00:10:07] And I think that was kind of the beginning of just figuring out where you’re at. Gina Yonts [00:10:13] Well, none of us is as smart as all of us. [00:10:16] Yeah. [00:10:16] So get the minds in the room. [00:10:18] Right. [00:10:18] Heidi, what were you going to say? Heidi Fagerness [00:10:20] That’s exactly what I was going to say. [00:10:21] I mean, I feel like I’ve had training on MTSS. [00:10:24] I know, I mean, a special educator by nature, by start. [00:10:28] But each school is its own little ecosystem, right? [00:10:33] You’re you’re each school is going to do things a little bit different. [00:10:37] We had done nothing. [00:10:38] I had been drip, methane drip method as an AP for a few years with staff. [00:10:43] Any chance I could about MTSS and what we need systems. [00:10:47] We need systems to help these kiddos and, you know, things are pretty darn good in Chehalis and so why change? [00:10:55] It is kind of the the general atmosphere. [00:10:58] But as we approach 2028, where we have to have those systems in place for eligibility for special ed, that that is the marker for us and the reason for us to have the systems. [00:11:11] But the benefit of all kids and the equity lens of mtss is that’s really, really important. [00:11:17] So that just joining Kym, just joining others on base camp and middle level, there there’s no way. [00:11:25] I mean, Kim just said something a minute ago and I wrote it on my notes, like, and she’s told me those things before, but I’m like, oh yeah, I don’t want to forget that. [00:11:32] So. Kim Doepker [00:11:34] Anyway, and I, I would echo what Heidi says, I mean, we Sheree. [00:11:39] I mean, her systems and everything that she had were like. [00:11:44] And she’s sharing all this stuff. Heidi Fagerness [00:11:48] Yeah, everything. Kim Doepker [00:11:48] And I think that’s this whole thing of even when we present next month at AWSP, this is what we know. [00:11:56] But where are you at and where can you learn? [00:11:59] Because exactly what you said, Heidi. [00:12:02] Everybody’s their own ecosystem. [00:12:04] We don’t have necessarily a system that will fit everyone. [00:12:08] But where are you at? [00:12:10] Where are you going and what do you need and how can you chunk it out? Heidi Fagerness [00:12:13] And I think I would also say with that, that group of us learning together is, I don’t feel bad telling people, I don’t know. [00:12:23] But a lot of leaders, we don’t like to admit that we don’t know, especially women in leadership, because we don’t want to be looked upon as weak anyway. [00:12:30] But, there is just no way. [00:12:33] There’s just there’s no way you could. [00:12:35] Well, first of all, be in a first year principle. [00:12:37] But to build systems without other ideas from other people, and there’s no cookie cutter approach, and there shouldn’t be. [00:12:44] But we have to be a little vulnerable and say, oh, I don’t know what to do here. [00:12:48] You got any good ideas? Gina Yonts [00:12:49] Well, and if we know about the context, I mean, schools can be completely different. [00:12:54] It’s like Kim’s worked at both middle schools in the same district. [00:12:57] Yeah, completely different systems. [00:12:59] The context is different. [00:13:01] The staffing is different in terms of just how people how how change available they are. [00:13:07] Are they willing to change or not willing to change? [00:13:10] And so I think all of those pieces really do paint, paint the picture around, why it’s so important to be in a community and have a professional learning community of leaders kind of trying to tackle the same work, because what works, one place might not work someplace else, but a shade of that might. [00:13:27] And so it’s like, how do we how do we constantly affirm, affirm each other while at the same time. [00:13:34] Steel yourselves for the vulnerability it takes to try something new, because it won’t get ugly before it gets better. Kim Doepker [00:13:40] Right? Gina Yonts [00:13:40] Really? Heidi Fagerness [00:13:41] Gina Yont’s quote that’s going in our our summer conference. Kim Doepker [00:13:45] All right. Gina Yonts [00:13:46] Very good. [00:13:47] You guys are too funny. [00:13:48] Well, hey, as you reflect on your time as a school leader and Heidi, you’ve been an assistant principal. [00:13:53] But this is also finishing up year one. [00:13:56] And, Kim, what year is this for you in administration? [00:13:59] I’m going to put you on the spot. [00:14:01] 2021 yeah og, we got the OG in the house. [00:14:05] Kim Decker I would like to know where do you feel like you’ve grown the most in your leadership? [00:14:12] Heidi, from the beginning of the year when you signed your contract and Kim at the end of a 20 year career in leadership, what do you think? Heidi Fagerness [00:14:21] All right, I’ll jump in. [00:14:23] I am a culture leader by my name. [00:14:26] That is, that I love people. [00:14:28] People are wired to connect. [00:14:29] I want to connect them. [00:14:31] So I’m all about culture, but I have learned more this year from just creating systems. [00:14:38] And we hired a new AP that he’s a systems guy. [00:14:41] So that happens to be, you know, pretty nice. [00:14:44] But, definitely in building systems they take time. [00:14:52] So I’ve learned more about building systems and then I have to be willing. [00:14:56] I’m also a getter gun girl. [00:14:58] Get in there, get it done. [00:14:59] But I’ve had to say, oh, look, this is taking all year. [00:15:03] And that’s okay, because all of a sudden and, Gina, we’ve had the gift of having Gina in our building. [00:15:08] And by the way, my staff has said, oh my gosh, can she come spend a whole day with us? Gina Yonts [00:15:13] Oh my gosh, that’s so kind. Heidi Fagerness [00:15:15] Yeah. Gina Yonts [00:15:15] School improvement Kim we’ve lived in school improvement. [00:15:18] So I got to go do school improvement with the school who’s not mandated to do it. [00:15:23] They’re just doing it because it’s what’s best for their kids. [00:15:26] That is a huge mind shift. [00:15:29] So, Heidi, thanks for the invitation and what lovely feedback. Kim Doepker [00:15:32] Yeah. Heidi Fagerness [00:15:34] Yeah. [00:15:34] Anyway, they finally start seeing the the wheels and the cogs moving together instead of this here, this here, this here. [00:15:42] They. [00:15:43] Oh, we need to we need to grease that one a little bit. [00:15:46] So but that’s taken the, the entire year and giving permission for the entire year to make that happen. [00:15:52] And really, 3 to 5 years, I got a 3 to 5 year plan and to make those just really spinning. [00:15:58] But time and systems is where I’ve intentionally improved. [00:16:03] And it got a long way to go. Kim Doepker [00:16:08] I think, boy, that I went through definitely an inner change. [00:16:15] And I’m going to just, my faith has grown. [00:16:18] And there, that has definitely been a change. [00:16:23] I, I am definitely like, let’s, you know, get it done. [00:16:27] Three words. [00:16:28] Do your job. [00:16:31] Because I don’t want to do it for you. [00:16:34] But I’ve definitely softened it. [00:16:37] And I’ve learned over the years because, going too fast, I’ve broken a lot of things, trying to go too fast, and I’ve had to slow down, take a step back and just go. [00:16:50] What do they need? [00:16:51] Because nobody wakes up every morning and wants to do a crappy job. [00:16:56] And understanding that. [00:16:59] Yeah. [00:17:00] So how can I offer grace and support? [00:17:05] And I think those are the biggest things that I have learned. [00:17:08] I’ll be honest on our, you know, let’s see data that we do. Gina Yonts [00:17:14] Yeah. [00:17:15] Center for Educational effectiveness. [00:17:17] Yeah. [00:17:17] The big one. [00:17:18] The big granddaddy. Kim Doepker [00:17:20] The two things that I had scored low on for years. [00:17:24] I don’t celebrate enough and my my principal cares about me. [00:17:29] That was really low. [00:17:32] And I’ve. [00:17:33] I tried to brush it off and everything, but I’ve learned, and it’s gotten better. [00:17:38] And I think that’s the biggest thing being where I’m at in my career. [00:17:43] I think the other thing, too, is I’m still jazzed about learning. [00:17:48] I was listening to some podcasts and I was like, oh my God, I gotta do this and gotta do this. [00:17:53] And I’m just I’m just excited to keep learning and changing and just saying, you’d be great at this and you’d be great at this. [00:18:01] So I still have a fire in me, even though probably once a week I get out of soul. [00:18:06] How many more years? [00:18:09] I don’t know, I got my wheelchair fitted, so. [00:18:13] Phew. [00:18:15] So yeah, I just I still have a fire. [00:18:17] And I’m recognizing the relationships and people because you got to take care of the staff or they'll eat the kids. [00:18:24] So. Gina Yonts [00:18:25] Oh my gosh. [00:18:26] Well, I just appreciate both of you answering that with such vulnerability. [00:18:30] It’s hard. [00:18:30] But again, I don’t think you just arrive. [00:18:33] I think you consistently evolve in school leadership, every grade level that comes before you and rolls up to the high school or comes in from sixth grade, Holy cow, they have their own personality. [00:18:45] We respond to the personalities we’re dealing with, and I just really appreciate that. [00:18:50] That was that was some some truth knowledge right there. [00:18:53] So here’s another one for you. [00:18:55] When you think about the work happening in your school, where do you feel like you and your team have really made meaningful progress? [00:19:05] And what are some of your next steps? [00:19:09] And it could be related to anything we’ve talked about or, something new. [00:19:15] So where do you feel like you and your team have really made meaningful progress? [00:19:19] And what can you just not wait for next year because. [00:19:22] Oh. [00:19:22] Have I got an idea for you? Kim Doepker [00:19:27] This next year, when we look at a PLC at the middle level and with it shrinking and you know. [00:19:36] Well, do I do this content team on this Wednesday and this content team on the next? [00:19:41] It was it just wasn’t doing it. [00:19:44] And for us we looked at not only the Sea data, but we also put out, a survey to staff not cutting it. [00:19:52] So we’re going to do the PLC plus model next year where we put up what are what are some different hurdles you’re running into disengagement, turning in homework. [00:20:03] And people get to be on nine week teams and you get to be on it. [00:20:07] I don’t care if you’re art, music, social studies, if that is your common issue, we’re going to work on it. [00:20:13] You get to decide the data and then we’re going to be doing these world cafes so that it is choice. [00:20:21] So that is where we’ve been planning behind the scenes this past year. [00:20:28] We’ve we’re going to have an ESD lady come in and kind of walk staff through, but we just have to do something different because the policy’s, not working for garrison. [00:20:41] So we’re excited about that. Gina Yonts [00:20:43] Awesome, I love that. Kim Doepker [00:20:45] Yeah. Gina Yonts [00:20:45] Heidi, what about you? Heidi Fagerness [00:20:49] I feel like streamlining our learning as a staff has been a win and required a lot of energy. [00:20:57] But then because of streamlining that. [00:20:59] No, you know, initiative fatigue, like, hey, this year we’re going to use the things that we’ve learned over the last three and five years, and we’re going to apply them. [00:21:09] That we’ve got some great initiatives and some great, vision work in our district. [00:21:17] Our 75 by 35 initiative put out by our superintendent. [00:21:21] Was 75% of our kids will be in a college or career by the year 35, 20, 35. [00:21:29] So, so pretty big initiatives. [00:21:31] So we’ve really tried to break those down. [00:21:33] And, in order to make those things happen, I really have tried to streamline presentations, PD, but also getting our people to talk instead of just waiting to be told what to do. [00:21:49] So, just hearing their voices and including students. [00:21:54] One thing I really got to work on for next year is that parent, that family voice. [00:21:59] So, you know, parents get told a lot of the information or they just tell you what they want, but not that partnership. [00:22:06] And so I really want to also streamline those voices and, bring their voices and their into action, not just talk about it. [00:22:15] Yeah. [00:22:15] So we’ve been really about. [00:22:16] Walking the talk this year. Gina Yonts [00:22:18] I love that. [00:22:20] I love that. [00:22:20] Okay, we’re gonna dig in a little bit deeper here into the leadership framework. [00:22:25] And really it’s it’s all based on the fact that school leaders across our state often use the AWSP leadership framework as as a guide. [00:22:34] So thinking about the eight criterion. [00:22:37] Which one do you feel you’ve had the most success with within your school this year? Heidi Fagerness [00:22:45] Definitely culture for me. [00:22:46] I mean, golly, we got the culture award. [00:22:49] You know, one of the one of the culture awards from AWSL. [00:22:53] Our staff is excited. [00:22:55] They say things to me like, I can see where this is going. [00:22:59] Oh my gosh, I’m excited for next year. [00:23:01] I’m a theme girl, so they’re always like, what’s the theme? [00:23:04] How is this gonna how is this going to work? [00:23:06] It might might be something with the Betty Crocker Cookbook, I’m not quite sure. [00:23:09] But to quote Gina Yonts, maybe, culture is. [00:23:13] It’s easy and it’s fun for me. [00:23:16] Even not just the positive, toxic positive, but, on the sense of caring for people and going and making sure they’re okay and, oh, your daughter’s having a baby and, oh, your kid’s sick and really caring for people. [00:23:30] That’s easy. [00:23:31] That’s easy work for me. [00:23:32] I could do that all day. [00:23:34] And it’s it’s helped us make gains in other areas. Gina Yonts [00:23:38] Just on the off chance I happen to be in Heidi’s building when they were, letting the ASB students know, what positions they had been elected into. [00:23:48] And that in and of itself, if you’ve ever had to be in the room when ASB elections are over and you make sure that there’s tissue everywhere and that you’re all in this because there’s going to be big emotions on both sides. [00:24:01] Wow. [00:24:02] How respectful. [00:24:03] Kids were great. [00:24:05] The staff were ready to support, and I don’t know, Heidi. [00:24:09] It felt really good. [00:24:10] It felt like kids knew what was expecting, what they were expecting, even if it wasn’t the result they may have wanted. [00:24:16] They were supportive of each other. [00:24:18] They were really supportive. [00:24:19] So that speaks a lot to that work you’ve been doing in criterion one creating culture. Heidi Fagerness [00:24:24] I do want to say one more thing about that shout out. Gina Yonts [00:24:26] Please do. Heidi Fagerness [00:24:28] So typically we’ve always just sent our five ASB elected leaders to AWSL, but all of the leaders that ran had such great platforms and had the vision for what they want to do. [00:24:39] We’re sending every one of our kids that ran to AWSL camp this summer. Gina Yonts [00:24:43] Oh, to camp Cispus. Heidi Fagerness [00:24:45] Yeah. Gina Yonts [00:24:45] Oh my goodness. Heidi Fagerness [00:24:47] It’s just gonna it’s going to bring dividends 100% dividends back. [00:24:51] So anyway, glad you. Gina Yonts [00:24:52] Have a way to keep everybody enfranchised and not create disenfranchisement, which is so easy to do. [00:24:57] At middle level, we forget how sensitive they’re little people in just bigger bodies. [00:25:01] So that’s that was a great catch. [00:25:04] I’m I’m excited to hear more about that. [00:25:05] All right, Kim, what about you? Kim Doepker [00:25:08] I think I go back to. [00:25:11] I default to my systems. [00:25:17] I when I think about systems it’s, it’s that way of communicating for me and. [00:25:25] Like clarity before before courage. [00:25:31] And it was an article we read. [00:25:33] What is the clarity that we have before that courage to maybe have a difficult conversation if the expectation is this, has the system been placed effectively for them to understand it, to move forward? [00:25:51] I, I would love to be in the culture domain because yeah, we could use a little bit of culture and I’m just so systems orientated and I tried to kind of justify all the systems. [00:26:08] Okay, well, we’re going to do this for a loop. [00:26:11] And, I think I’m good at that because, the eyes and crossing the T’s, you know, thinking about those little things like visualizing. [00:26:22] Okay, I’m going to walk in as a new, incoming sixth grade parent. [00:26:28] What’s the first thing I’m going to see? [00:26:30] What is welcoming. [00:26:31] What can we do? [00:26:32] What? [00:26:33] And so I try to think through that way and how to involve the people and rely on their strengths. [00:26:42] Like you got that because you’re really good at that and you got that. [00:26:47] But yeah, I think like systems for everything is where I default to. Gina Yonts [00:26:53] And I say that sounds a lot like criterion one to me, taking that perspective taking and things like that. [00:27:01] Kim, that’s that’s culture. [00:27:05] But you can say. Heidi Fagerness [00:27:06] I jumped in there really quick. [00:27:08] There’s one of the reasons I love Kim is. [00:27:13] Because she’s so vulnerable and she says it just like it is. [00:27:17] And there’s a reason we’re going to be friends long after leadership. [00:27:21] And what I love is I’m culture, your systems. [00:27:24] And we need to have more, you know, meals after conferences or whatever. [00:27:29] People that are listening to this, if they are not involving themselves with other leaders around their ESD or through AWSP, if it was not through AWSP, I would not have met Kim and or Gina and I. [00:27:43] There’s who can you call? [00:27:44] Like, literally there’s no leadership Ghostbusters. [00:27:46] Like you gotta be able to. [00:27:48] Who are you going to call? [00:27:49] I’m going to call Kim. [00:27:50] I’m going to call Gina. [00:27:51] I’m going to call Jack. [00:27:52] I’m going to call Craig Curry. [00:27:53] I mean, I could list a ton of people that I would not have known, but. [00:27:57] Kim. [00:27:58] I just want to say, your systems. [00:28:00] I’m not. [00:28:01] That’s my growth area. [00:28:02] I’m culture. [00:28:03] That’s your growth area. [00:28:04] Like, what a better time to spend together. [00:28:06] And and iron sharpens iron. [00:28:09] Right. Kim Doepker [00:28:09] So well and that’s just it because through AWSP we met and I wanted Heidi to be my friend. [00:28:17] And so, she had really nice glasses and I just liked her style. [00:28:22] So I was like, okay, I’m going to go compliment, turn on glasses. [00:28:26] I really mean it. [00:28:26] Will you be my friend and. Gina Yonts [00:28:29] Middle school friend making how did you know? Kim Doepker [00:28:32] But hitting it off and then just seeing the videos she made and then also as being the assistant principal of the year and what she does, I mean, like Top Gun, you know, you know, doing the I’m going to direct you here in the hallways and just the fun things they do and that’s I, I get twitchy like you can ask Steve Pitts for the counselor. [00:28:55] Like the most time I get twitchy is when we were out of schedule, like, okay, we’re on a different schedule, Dang. [00:29:01] But I do think the networking piece is huge. [00:29:05] Absolutely. [00:29:06] Without a doubt. [00:29:07] Yep. Gina Yonts [00:29:08] So Heidi, you are a self-proclaimed culture domain. [00:29:12] Kim is a self-proclaimed systems domain. [00:29:16] So I’m going to ask you this. [00:29:19] Who did you involve in the process, and how did you bring staff or students into the work of culture? [00:29:25] And how did you bring staff and students into the work around systems? [00:29:29] And then in the end. [00:29:31] Bonus can you tell me how that’s helped with learning in your schools? Kim Doepker [00:29:38] The systems pieces. [00:29:42] I, I think I, I’m going to go back to visualizing. [00:29:46] What does it look like so that it’s executed this way. [00:29:53] And I’ve learned to say, what do you think? [00:29:57] Like head Secretary Jasmine, does this look okay? [00:30:00] Or, you know, whomever I am. [00:30:04] I don’t formally. [00:30:07] I’m sure this is going to be the podcast. [00:30:10] I don’t formally ask kids, so to speak, but I was informally asking. [00:30:14] I was outside with some girls and they were asking about recognition. [00:30:17] They were like. [00:30:17] And I was like, what do you think about this? [00:30:19] And what do you think about that? [00:30:20] And they’re like, well, yeah, but what if you did this or this? [00:30:22] And I’m like, great. [00:30:23] Done and done. [00:30:26] I. [00:30:29] Involve the people around or key players to say what do you think. Heidi Fagerness [00:30:36] I like it. Gina Yonts [00:30:38] I like it. [00:30:39] How do you think that helps with learning. Kim Doepker [00:30:44] I think I always use this morbid analogy. [00:30:50] If nobody was here tomorrow, would I be able to pick up something and be able to at least look so that we would have some system of calm and routine so that until we could figure it out so you don’t have to start from scratch, you could build upon it. [00:31:11] And then that way you’re not wasting time doing this, doing that, doing that. [00:31:16] It’s already in place. [00:31:17] Great. [00:31:17] Now let’s let’s go out classrooms. [00:31:19] Let’s learn with kids. [00:31:20] Teachers don’t have to do that. [00:31:21] It’s already figured out. [00:31:23] Put your time and energy here. [00:31:25] That’s how I think it involves. Gina Yonts [00:31:27] Okay. [00:31:27] Well, that’s not morbid. [00:31:28] That’s just creating the playbook or or creating or keeping the history, you know, kind of a historical. [00:31:35] This is where we’re at, and this is where we’ve been and this is where we’re going. [00:31:38] Yeah. [00:31:39] It’s kind of sad. [00:31:40] Sometimes you’ll go into buildings and you’re helping maybe a first year leader or someone trying to figure it out, and it’s like, where’s the staff handbook? [00:31:46] Oh, we don’t have one. [00:31:47] Oh, what do you mean you don’t have a staff handbook? [00:31:49] It’s like people lose. [00:31:51] They lose all of the historical information, and then it just takes that much longer to kind of recover. Kim Doepker [00:31:56] Because. Gina Yonts [00:31:57] That’s really challenging. [00:31:58] All right. [00:31:59] Heidi culture queen. [00:32:00] What have we got? [00:32:01] How do you bring others on? Heidi Fagerness [00:32:03] It’s just what comes naturally. Gina Yonts [00:32:05] Yeah. [00:32:05] No, I mean that with all affection. Heidi Fagerness [00:32:07] Okay. Gina Yonts [00:32:08] I’m envious of people who are super grounded in culture, because I think I get that culture through learning and systems. [00:32:16] I’m a little bit like Kim’s systems and learning, so I’m always excited to hear what how you think about it. Heidi Fagerness [00:32:22] I think what’s really important for for building a good culture for me is to be genuine, intentional and genuine. [00:32:30] Yeah, I do Top Gun, but it is very intentional. [00:32:34] This year our theme is Smile and Say hello. [00:32:36] It’s the little things. [00:32:37] All year long it’s been about step by step, little by little. [00:32:41] Everything we’ve done has been intentional. [00:32:43] So, I’m not going to name any major programs, but you could think of them, you know, all the things that we’re oh, when this happens, do this, when this happens to do this, I It’s got to be super intentional and genuine when it comes to culture. [00:32:57] So I think driving that culture piece for me is always been my intentionality and being real with who I am. [00:33:05] People don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care, right? [00:33:09] I genuinely do care. [00:33:11] Genuinely care about even the people that drive me nuts. [00:33:16] I care about them. [00:33:17] They need me for some reason. [00:33:20] So that culture piece in knowing everybody, is, is important for me to to know them, to see them, to value their opinions. [00:33:30] And I think the way that that’s impacted learning is because they know that they’re willing to come to a staff meeting on time, get started, get the work done. [00:33:40] We changed our testing schedule. [00:33:42] I started out this this podcast with that right, is we changed our testing schedule because we believe it’s going to have an impact and it’s what’s best for kids. Gina Yonts [00:33:50] So I love that. Heidi Fagerness [00:33:53] That’s that. Kim Doepker [00:33:53] That’s right. [00:33:54] That down, Heidi. Gina Yonts [00:33:56] I love that. [00:33:57] Well, I know that Kim, just like all the other busy principals, she’s got a bounce. [00:34:01] And then I’m going to finish up with Heidi. [00:34:02] But I’ll tell you what. [00:34:03] Kim, can you can you answer this really quick on your way out? [00:34:07] What does success look like for you? [00:34:10] In the criterion around your systems work that you’re really building like your PLCs? [00:34:15] What is what is success going to look like? [00:34:18] In your school and and what are your biggest hopes for that success? [00:34:23] What are you hoping it does to the learning in your building? Kim Doepker [00:34:28] I’m going to go back to the teachers too, on the learning. [00:34:32] If we’re like, we want this exceptional learning and this exceptional experience for students to be known, seen, honored, champion, we we I feel that I have to create that for teachers. [00:34:48] And in this PLC where it’s choice and working with their colleagues that they get inspired and this inspiration will help them. [00:35:00] And that is a system of this is how we get into our PLC plus groups. [00:35:06] This is how we go about sharing our work and success is teachers are engaged. [00:35:14] Wednesdays are what we do to them and that are teacher retention at garrison is high and that we have more kids wanting to come to our school because of the atmosphere and the culture that we’re providing our teachers, which reflects and our kids. Gina Yonts [00:35:32] I love that because really, to be a proficient teacher or administrator, you have to be with your people, with your teachers, and you’re going to be a proficient teacher. [00:35:41] You got to be with your students. [00:35:43] And if you want to be distinguished, you got to be walking alongside each other. [00:35:46] You got to be together, so that’s amazing. [00:35:49] Well, thank you for spending some time with us today. [00:35:51] I’m going to finish up here with Heidi. [00:35:53] Have a great spring if we don’t see you before summer conference. [00:35:57] But, thanks again for joining us today, Kim. [00:35:59] Okay. [00:36:00] Take care. [00:36:00] See ya. Heidi Fagerness [00:36:01] Bye, Kim. Gina Yonts [00:36:03] Okay, Heidi, back to you, my friend. [00:36:05] So what does success look like for criterion one? [00:36:09] Because you’re thinking about all these different things. [00:36:11] But what does that look like? [00:36:13] And, yeah. [00:36:15] How is that going to affect your learning? [00:36:17] And what what changes are you hoping to see by that continued focus? Heidi Fagerness [00:36:23] Well. [00:36:26] I just again, my I just immediately go to a visual. [00:36:29] I just see all the cogs working together and the machine is able to move. [00:36:34] We started out our year with talking about we can’t. [00:36:38] You can’t fly an airplane, you piece by piece. [00:36:41] Right? [00:36:41] So each piece is is building something into the system or you can’t ride a bicycle. [00:36:46] I mean, we’ve seen the analogies. [00:36:49] I, I think in order to see success, you have to. [00:36:55] You’ve said you say it better than I do, Gina. [00:36:57] But in order to see success in systems, it’s the culture that makes those systems happen. [00:37:02] People are doing things because they. [00:37:05] They trust Brandon and I. [00:37:07] They know that we’ve got their back when it comes to things. [00:37:10] They’re willing to sit in a professional development and go, what if instead of just we used to get the the CMS crickets, you’d ask a question and everybody would be quiet. [00:37:20] And now, success to me at CMS, crickets is the staff room is filled at lunch. [00:37:28] They’re all hanging out and eating together. [00:37:30] After school, I can walk out at the stand up tables and teachers are hanging out. [00:37:34] They’re not like blasting out of the building at 250. [00:37:38] They’re willing to come in and talk about a kid and shoot an idea out. [00:37:44] Teachers always care. [00:37:45] They always, always care. [00:37:47] Otherwise, they wouldn’t be here. [00:37:48] But to have them in these times where it’s tough. [00:37:52] It’s tough to be a teacher. [00:37:55] For them to feel valued. [00:37:57] They’re they’re willing to do the work to look at the data, to build the system, to create what’s best. [00:38:03] So to me, it’s just a progression, those cogs working together. Gina Yonts [00:38:07] I love that visual. [00:38:08] I love that visual. [00:38:09] So have you picked a theme for next year? Heidi Fagerness [00:38:13] Well, I gotta be honest. [00:38:14] Miss Gina Yonts has got some influence in my building there, loving Miss Gina Yonts. [00:38:19] And I’m kind of thinking about cooking something, you know, like cooking up some. Gina Yonts [00:38:23] Oh, a little Betty Crocker test kitchen of wonderful ideas that we can try and fail publicly, but also might find some little gems. Heidi Fagerness [00:38:30] Yes. Gina Yonts [00:38:31] Well, the cake rise. [00:38:32] Or will the cake fall? [00:38:34] So are the days of our lives. Heidi Fagerness [00:38:37] Been so easy to build off of that all year long and make it strong? [00:38:41] You know? [00:38:41] So. Gina Yonts [00:38:42] Oh, I love that. [00:38:42] Well, I can’t wait to hear what you come up with. [00:38:45] Okay, final question. [00:38:46] And I know we had to send Kim off and she didn’t get to answer this one, but if you here you are at the end of your first official year as the lead principal of Chehalis Middle School. [00:38:54] If you could offer one piece of leadership advice to other principals starting down this leadership path, whether it’s an assistant principal, a dean of students, but saying, hey, putting a stake in the ground, I want to be a school leader, what would it be? Heidi Fagerness [00:39:10] Find your people and don’t be afraid to ask them questions. [00:39:13] Just find a network and it should be with AWSP. [00:39:18] But through that, you’re going to have continued networks and branches. [00:39:22] I’m not afraid to ask questions. [00:39:24] I hate looking dumb, but I’m not afraid to ask questions which might make me look silly sometimes, but you just have to find your network. [00:39:33] My brand new AP. [00:39:34] He’s amazing. [00:39:35] He doesn’t need anything. [00:39:37] But I said get a mentor. [00:39:39] Get somebody tall no matter what. [00:39:41] When you might come up with something that you don’t want to ask your building principal. [00:39:44] You gotta have somebody you can call. [00:39:46] Exactly. [00:39:48] I will be proud of the work you’re doing. [00:39:51] That’s a hard thing to do. Gina Yonts [00:39:53] It is, isn’t it? [00:39:54] Because it’s not like you’re having a parade every day after school, on the way to your car that you’ve done such a great job. [00:40:00] You’ve ran a marathon since you got there, since you got there in the parking lot, but now you’re leaving like, more. Heidi Fagerness [00:40:07] Exactly. [00:40:08] I leave here more exhausted driving on the way home than I do ten hours working, digging dirt and planting flowers. [00:40:13] Like I could work outside all day and not be as exhausted as I am. Gina Yonts [00:40:17] Oh my gosh. [00:40:18] It is. [00:40:19] It is mental for sure. [00:40:21] For sure. [00:40:22] Well, Heidi, thank you so much for your time and thank you for your leadership. [00:40:26] And yeah, we really appreciate you taking the time to share with us on a matter of principals. Heidi Fagerness [00:40:33] A matter of principals. Gina Yonts [00:40:34] All right. [00:40:35] Have a great day. [00:40:36] Have a great day.