Jack Arend Hello, and welcome to another edition of AWSP podcast series, A Matter of Principals. I’m Jack Arend, I’m the Deputy Director here at AWSP, and I am so excited for today’s podcast episode. We’re launching into this new series where each of the AWSP directors are interviewing two practicing principals or assistant principals to just find out from them, where are they finding success? What’s a huge celebration in their work, and how do we connect that all to the AWSP leadership framework? As you probably know, if you’re listening to this podcast, every single principal and assistant principal in the state of Washington is evaluated using the AWSP leadership framework. It’s a fantastic document, and we are really proud of the fact that we are the only state in the nation that has a leadership framework that was written by practicing school leaders. It’s a great document, and I know if you’re a principal or assistant principal in Washington listening right now, you know the framework really well. But we are excited today to bring to you a really dynamic elementary school principal that has just found such success in the work that she and her team are doing. And I can’t wait for you to get to know her and get to know a little bit about her school. With us today is Principal Jenny Hunt, and she is the principal at the amazing Broadview Elementary in the Oak Harbor School District. Jenny, it’s so good to see you. Jenny Hunt It’s so good to see you, too, Jack. I’m happy to be here today. Jack Arend Thanks for joining. Thanks for joining. For those of you that are listening, I get to see Jenny on screen and I get to peek into her absolutely stunningly beautiful office. And it’s just really, really fun to see her. Jenny, would you please just kind of help the listeners get to know you a little bit? Tell us about your school, your community. Maybe some of the listeners don’t know where Oak Harbor is. Tell us a little bit about your building. Jenny Hunt Oak Harbor is located on an island. Its would be island and it is, to get to our island, you would either go on Deception Pass if you haven’t seen it. It’s beautiful through in a courtyard. Or you would take a ferry down to Mukilteo. So we’re kind of in between the two. And so we’re a little bit isolated, but it is a very, very beautiful island if you haven’t been here before. We’re a Navy town, so we have a Navy base on the island. And so, at least half of our district is Navy affiliated. So it’s a really beautiful, unique place to be. And it’s our little secret. But please do come visit, because it’s an awesome area of Washington state. Jack Arend How many kids in your building? What’s your size of your staff? What is that? Jenny Hunt So we have about 380 kids in our school right now. When I started about 11 years ago, I had 550. So we’ve kind of ebbed and flowed and had some changes in our district. And I have about 60 staff members right now with the with Bobo, about half certified and half classified. Jack Arend Wow. Okay. So that keeps you very, very busy. Yeah. And in your entire district, multiple elementaries feeding to middle schools, high schools. Tell us a little bit more about that. Jenny Hunt Yeah, we had to do a change over the last ten years. So we have five elementary schools and we feed into an intermediate school. So I am a pre-K or K through fourth grade. We moved our fifth grade up. So we have a fifth and sixth grade intermediate school. And then we have A78 middle school and then a high school that’s 912. So we have eight schools in our district plus some alternative education as well. Jack Arend Yeah. Well we just hear great things about Oak Harbor, and we’re really thankful that you would carve out a little bit of your time. We know that this is spring is a busy time for school leaders. So thank you for carving out a little bit of a time. Jenny, what What would you say makes your school special? Jenny Hunt Well, I just, you know, our community in general, and especially Broadview, we have a super supportive community. We have community organizations that step out and help us step in and help our schools. We have super involved parents throughout all of our schools and broad views no different than that. We have an incredibly involved PTA, a huge volunteer base. If I if we have kids without jackets, we have multiple community partners that bring in jackets. We have the rotary that provides food for kids. Every week. We have about 40 bags of food that come in that go out to our students. We just any need we have, we have a, Oak Harbor Educational Foundation, which gives money to the school. So if kids need glasses that can go by in glasses. So, you know, one thing that’s super unique, I know it’s not everywhere, is that we just have so much support and love that surrounds us. And I just happen to have the best kids and families and staff at Broadview, too. But. Jack Arend Oh, that’s so good. You know, it’s really nice to hear that it’s such a community that values education, values your system, and really supports your district. I know that these jobs as being an elementary school principal, they’re challenging, they’re fantastic jobs, but they can be challenging. And so when you have a community that is so supportive and willing to jump in and help with those other needs that you want to take care of as a staff and you as a leader, that’s really special. I love I love hearing that. And I’m sure people, people that are listening, well, they’re going to contact you and and say, you got any openings up there in that wonderful community? Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Jenny, what do you enjoy most about leading in elementary school? Jenny Hunt I adore the kids. I just love the littles. Especially if you haven’t had a chance to hang out in a transition to kinder a TC class. Our four year olds are just amazing. I just love going in there to see them. I love all of the kids k four, but I’m kind of that primary person. That’s those are the grades I taught and they’re just funny. Kids are funny and they still love us adults. You know, I know middle school and high school principals are special, special people. But, you know, they they’ve got a good sense of humor. They joke around with us, you know, they want to learn. And sometimes when kiddos make poor choices, it’s just because they need a few more skills so that they can make the good choices. So I just love being able to hang out with our kiddos. Jack Arend I love that answer. And I know that people listening can’t see this, but I can see over your shoulder. You have that great Brad Montague book Fail Librarian that talks about it’s okay to make mistakes. And I think I remember when you and I were talking about that book last spring, that is something that your staff really embraces. Jenny Hunt Yeah, our our staff is really about growth mindset. And it’s okay not to know yet. We we know kids are really struggling with regulation right now. And so it’s not about judgment and punitive punishment. It’s about, gosh, if we make a mistake how do we fix it? Whether it’s academics or maybe it’s a social thing. But, yeah, that’s actually the one I got at AWSP during our grade level leadership. Yeah. And it’s right there ever since. What a great book. Jack Arend Oh, good. I’m glad. I’m glad that you have found some use in that. So let’s talk just a little bit about just a little bit more about you as a leader before we go into the great work that you and your building are doing. When did you know you wanted to become a school leader? Jenny Hunt You know, that one actually surprised me. I always knew I wanted to be a teacher. When I was young, I got to volunteer in schools, even from middle school on into an elementary school. But I struggled, Jack. I couldn’t read very well when I was a kiddo, and I. And I couldn’t do math. And now I see that I probably have some learning differences myself as I try to decode multi syllabic words, and I still can’t. And I just didn’t, you know, somebody helped me and I just wanted to make sure that other kids didn’t feel the way I did when I was in school and, you know, just trying to hide it. So nobody knew that I couldn’t do subtraction or multiplication. And I learned to turn my page in my book during silent reading, when everybody else did, because the words on the books were just swarming, and I knew that I could learn how to teach it so that I could make sure that other kids like me didn’t go unnoticed. And it was so quiet and well behaved. Nobody noticed. My brother got picked up for dyslexia, as a boy, but I was diagnosed with ADHD and likely dyslexia and dyscalculia. But I haven’t been tested for those two, so I just wanted to make sure that, you know, even the quiet kiddos didn’t didn’t fall through the cracks. I didn’t want anyone to feel that, that guilt of not being a good learner when it really wasn’t my fault. So I knew I wanted to become a teacher. Yeah. So important to me. Primary. Jack Arend Really cool. And so you wanted to be a teacher? Jenny Hunt Yeah. And I moved to Arizona, I learned Spanish, I’m from Mount Vernon, so from the tulips. And I knew that Spanish was super important because we had so many multilingual learners. And how do I connect with families and learn how to learn another language and what it’s like unless I do it myself? But I it was a hard time. And when I started teaching to get jobs here and had a job fair, someone in Arizona hired me. So I moved there. And they don’t have a strong system for teachers and principals like Washington. And my principal was doing his best, but he needed help. I spoke Spanish and I could help him with home visits to connect with families, and things just couldn’t get done unless someone stood up. So after about a year of helping him with the things he said, hey, have you thought about admin? And I said, have you met me? I’m so quiet and meek. I don’t think that that’s my thing, leading people. I don’t want to stand up and talk to anybody, or get on a stage or stand in front of a staff meeting. I don’t want to run an assembly. And and he just kept mentoring me because he knew that there was a need. And, and so it just kind of happened it. Teaching was my goal. And I was so proud to be a teacher. And I’m still proud to be a teacher, but happy to be an administrator now. Jack Arend I love, I love that. Thank you for sharing that someone saw in you. Right? This would be a great leader, and I’m sure you’re doing that a lot with the staff that you have. That’s our job as school leaders is to help people realize, oh, you would you would be very good at this. And I, I’m kind of giggling inside about that. Nope. I don’t want to run an assembly. Nope. I don’t want to do these things. And look, you’re doing all of that at a very high level. And you’re involved in, in state level leadership with AWSP. Wow. Amazing. That’s a really fun, fun journey. Jenny Hunt And when it gets hard, I just remember that little girl who was turning the page because the person next to her turned the page. So, you know, even when it’s hard, you just go back to. But she needs me right now. There’s another one out there. Jack Arend Oh, that’s really powerful. Yeah, she does need you. He needs you. They all need you. And you have this kind of spidey sense when a kid might be struggling, that maybe the classroom teacher who’s quite busy might not pick up on it as quickly, maybe as you. Jenny Hunt That’s all I can share with kids. You know, I couldn’t do it either. It was hard for me. But that’s not your fault. If I can learn, you can learn. We were going to help you write. Jack Arend Things that matter are difficult, right? So we can do difficult things. Oh. Oh, I love that. Well, as I shared in the opening, Jenny AWSP is doing this podcast series where we are interviewing great principals like you just to see where some success that you’re experiencing in your leadership and your building in your district. Already you’ve painted this beautiful picture of broad view of Oak Harbor. And yes, deception passes. Gorgeous. And so I’m excited to kind of dig into you, dig in with you, the work that you are leading and that your building is doing. So let me ask a couple questions here. And one is going to be a little bit more reflection before we start looking forward to what you’re doing right now. As you reflect on the years that you’ve been a school leader, where do you feel like you’ve grown the most in your leadership? Jenny Hunt Yeah. So when I think about leadership, I think that we have our learning domain, our culture domain and our system domain. And, I really wasn’t a systems person when I started, and I had to build that muscle because my school needed systems. When I started, we didn’t have strong systems. I followed an amazing principle, and I was so lucky to work with her. But there was just some systems that needed to change with our changing education. It wasn’t that she wasn’t a systems person because she was, but education was changing and so our systems needed to change. And so I had to learn to become a systems person, which was very shocking to me when I finally became a systems person. I really like the learning domain. That’s where I live. Culture, isn’t something I’m not the fun, bubbly middle school principal. I love those middle school principals, but I’m just not going to hype you up at an assembly that my dean of students does that. So luckily, I have a culture person in my office, but systems was the muscle that I really had to work on. Jack Arend Yeah. Isn’t that something? I was a high school teacher, as you know, I’ve talked about before, and I became an elementary principal, and it was in the elementary principal world that I. II came to the same realization as you. A rut row I need to figure out some systems. And I learned that I love that, I really loved that. And I believe as classroom teachers, every classroom teacher works to create a very beautiful classroom culture. And that was, you know, an area of importance for me, and I’m sure you. But boy, that leader, when you become that leader, you kind of need all those domains, to kind of help you be the best you can be. And people that are listening, what what what I love that Jenny referred to is the culture systems learning domain from the school leader collaboratives paradigm, the school leader paradigm. And maybe we’ll do another series on that. That would be fun. That’d be a ton of fun. Okay, I’m going to throw you another question. Are you ready? Yeah. All right. Every principal has areas that require a lot of their attention and energy. What’s been a major leadership focus for you and your school recently? Jenny Hunt Yeah. So we are deep into Mtss, and particularly this year we are really working to strengthen our tier one reading. You know, all kids deserve to know how to read. It’s a civil right. It’s a it’s a basic just being a good citizen, you know, knowing how to read is very important. It affects our entire lives. And so, you know, we really need to get our kids reading at 80 to 85% in our tier one reading solidly at each grade level. And we’ve struggled in that area. So that’s been a major focus for us. Jack Arend That’s great. I, I’m reminded of a, of a statement that, one of the reading specialists in the school where I got to work in would always say literacy is the gateway to all learning. And I loved that. And you basically just said that it’s a civil right. That’s our job. And that’s also part of the beautiful thing about being an elementary. Watching that magic happen when it all starts to click for a kid is so fun. It’s so fun. So tell me a little bit more about what you’re building as far as tier one, or tell me more about that. Like, what are you guys digging into? Jenny Hunt So we, you know, it goes back to Covid, but we had to change our curriculum during Covid because we didn’t have anything that was online that had the ability to be taught online when we had to close down initially. And we also didn’t have in-person training anymore because we couldn’t all get together. And, you know, as elementary folks, we love to be together, but we so we adopted this new curriculum. And Common Core standards are vast. There are so many. So these curriculums that are newer really have so much material in them. And it is impossible to get into the one hour of core instruction and 30 minutes of small group and then we have our intervention block. When you have two hours worth of material. And so our teachers are working so hard and spinning their wheels and trying to pick out the pieces that make the biggest bang for your buck. And it’s really hard to know what the kids need right now when you have so many moving pieces. And so we are working with someone on a framework of saying, if you follow these seven steps, these are the things that research says you need, and then cut the extra because we don’t have time for it right now, and then then we can make a difference. And that’s what we’ve been working through this year. Jack Arend Wow, that’s a lot of work. That’s a heavy, heavy lift. Yeah. Heavy lift. What would you say as you noticed what was happening as the leader of the building and you noticed what was happening? Jenny, what would you say were your, like, maybe your first leadership moves. Yeah. You said, oh, we we have to address this. Jenny Hunt Yeah. So it actually takes us a little back off topic, but coming out of Covid, I did have an intern, and, she’s a systems person, and we had to get close because that’s when we lived in our little bubbles, and she had to be in my bubble because she was learning how to run a school. We had to have daycares for first responders. We had to meet with people online and keep people motivated and feeling safe and connect with families. And when we took our data, when we first came back in the fall, we were coming back in a hybrid model, and we realized we had so many kids that fell behind and our families did the best they could to help at home. And our teachers did a darn good job of, you know, reaching out to teaching kids to read online. But we just had more kids. And the model we had for our lab program was pulling kids out of the classroom and doing small groups with our parent educators and our lab teacher, and we just couldn’t serve enough kids when that happened. So we started with that system first before we started with our tier one reading. Based on our data. So that’s when we actually got into criterion three, which is planning with data. How do we build capacity to take the data that we have and have our educators use that data, both are classified and are certified to help meet the needs of students. So I started with putting my intern into my lap teacher position and flipping her model, and that kind of blew people’s minds. And this is where culture comes in. And I realize that you don’t have to be the super effervescent, bubbly person to create a good culture, but you can create a culture of trust and belief so that our educators have the ability to make a change, even when change is hard. Jack Arend So I love that. Keep going, keep keep going. Jenny Hunt So we started a, so we started a model where we did a one time the what I need time. And we put our teachers serving our kids with the biggest needs since they’re highly trained. And our educators were serving our kids who were at grade level and above grade level at the same time, the state was changing how you meet the needs of students with dyslexia. And so we had to figure out we had to screen the kids and then we had to serve them with a curriculum that met their needs. But if you have dyslexia, there’s a whole range, right? It’s not like everyone in dyslexia is on level seven or whatever level. You have to have multiple groups to meet their needs. And so we needed a curriculum that met those needs as well as our intervention needs. So I hired a new lab teacher, flipped the model and got a new curriculum in months. And change does not go that fast. I had a lot of sleepless nights on who was going to own the burden of of the, either the change or the not change. Do we, do we, put it on our educators who are tired and stressed with Covid? Or do we put it on our kids who really don’t have another year to wait? They don’t have another year, and our adults are our fully our, you know, our grown ups, they have their fully developed brains. And it was hard. It was hard for them. But I realized that our students, especially our fourth graders, did not have one more year. So I, I I decided to rip off the Band-Aid, and we were going to make that change that year without getting full buy in. And that was hard. Change was. Jack Arend Hard. Change is hard. Change is hard. And I love your comment. You know, your fourth graders didn’t have another year. You know, our kids can’t wait for the adults to, you know, get this right. And not that people aren’t trying really hard, but that’s that’s brave. That’s brave leadership. Jenny, that you would say. Nope. This is what we need. Let me ask you a little bit about if you could help paint a picture of of your staff. This is a big change. And you just told you just let us know that Jenny’s the Band-Aid ripper offer, right? So let’s just do it. Let’s just do it. But let’s first start. You mentioned criterion three planning data, which, let’s talk about where were you with your staff and their understanding and use of data, and how did you help That becomes so robust. What leadership moves did you do? Jenny Hunt Yeah. So we needed the data to paint the picture. We needed the urgency to be seen. And the easiest way to do that is numbers. I mean, we we all love a good narrative and a story about a kiddo, but that doesn’t set the urgency for the whole system, that sets the urgency for those particular students. And so we needed to make sure that the data was really understood by our staff and by our parents and our community. So, you know, we have a fire hose of data in elementary. There’s not a lack of data points to pull on kids, students, especially with reading. But we had to focus it in to say, hey, these are the biggest needs and this is why we need this particular curriculum. This is why we need to have more people serving students. This is why we need people with higher training to serve the students of most need. So we started you know, we always do data for the whole staff. You know, when we take our first assessments of the year and then mid-year and end of year. And then we’ve had data meet days with our staff for a long time, but we really needed was to start getting the reflection a adults learned through their reflection, not necessarily through the content. They need time to process and work through that and look at it and see what it really means. So we really started some intentional changes with our data meetings. We have the old fashioned data wall. Love em or hate em, it still shows a picture. And we really just started, honing in and figuring out the understanding of our staff with that. Sometimes it was with a grade level, sometimes it was whole staff. And then I spent a year doing individual check ins so that I could see where each teacher landed on their understanding of data and how they were using it. And we use that as a flashlight and not a hammer. I’m not going to hammer someone about their data. It’s just one point. It doesn’t tell us the whole story of the kids ability or the teacher’s ability, but I had to have some more intentional check ins just to make sure that everybody was getting there and not just being carried by a teammate. Or maybe someone had great information, but they’re just not that loudest person in the room. Jack Arend Jenny, I want to just stop for a moment and say what a great statement that was. We use it as a flashlight, not a hammer. What a what a great image of. It’s just going to help guide us to know where we’re going, what we really see. It’s not. Yeah. That’s beautiful. I hope that’s written somewhere in your building. That is so good. And I, I think I interrupted you, but I just have a couple questions about all this. Did you have reluctant staff? Jenny Hunt Yeah. It changes hard, and I. I’m lucky, you know, I’ve been in my building now for 11 years as a principal and two years as a teacher. So I think people understand my intentions. I let them know I don’t do things perfectly, but I always try to make decisions with what’s best for kids, and then I own it. If I’ve made a mistake, I let them know it would be hard and uncomfortable, and it might not always feel good, but we’re going to get there together. You know, we just need to have a picture of how things are going. And that’s how we make it better. And we’re not going to persevere on where we’re at, but we’re also not going to stay there. It’s okay to start there, but it’s not okay to end there. And then if you have a need, well, we’ll help you with it. We’ll get you the training or the curriculum or the extra support. So the reluctant staff, I think just maybe was a little bit worried about being judged. And, you know, we have to continue with building relationships and stopping in and giving positive feedback and pointing out the little things that we see that are happening so that there’s, a knowing that I see all the good things and you may love your one. It might be just one number that they don’t like, but they’re so embarrassed. Well, that’s that’s not a judgment. Those things happen. They happen for me too. But but I see all the good things. I see all those great things. But I think you need so many positives to go with one thing that might appear to be negative, to kind of build up that confidence in some of our educators. Jack Arend Yeah. What a what a nice way you have to, encourage and reinforce the great things happening with every one of your teachers and then collectively, collectively to say, wow, how do we want to go about changing this? You know, this piece that maybe we’re not super fond of? What do we do with that? Jenny, part of part of criterion three in the framework and covers this idea. And I’m going to go back to what something that you said we have there is a firehose of data at the elementary level, probably any level. But my goodness, there is so much at the elementary when we’re learning sounds and and all of that stuff. There’s so much data. How did you decide which data to start using? And then how did you kind of break that down for your staff? Jenny Hunt Yeah. So I, I got help, Jack. I, you know, I just I love being able to collaborate with other other educators. I like to openly share the things I’m struggling with. And even when we started flipping this model, I called my teaching and Learning director, Liz Ritz, and my special director, Rebecca Washington, and said, I’ve got a problem and can you come over and just. Can we just work through the messiness of it in my office? And so when I when I’m not sure, I like to phone a friend and say, hey, I think I think this is, you know, I’ve been thinking about it and I think this is the data we need and this is what we need to work on. Can you confirm or challenge my thinking on it? And so I had lots of conversations with other educators. You know, I just happened to have been a primary teacher. So I lived in the world of teaching reading and writing. And so that happened to be something that was in my wheelhouse. So I was familiar with the data, and I was also able to contact the company if I wasn’t sure about a number, to ask some questions, because I didn’t know some of the nuances of I read, which is one of our big data sources. So what does this number actually mean and what are the implications with it? Because we make assumptions about data, but we don’t actually always know what the company, how they gather it or how they, you know, weight each score. So we dialed into those most important basic parts of reading that you need to have, which is so much of decoding. Jack Arend I really like what you just shared because it’s really one you emphasize the need to not do this work alone. Sometimes as leaders, we really kind of take so much on ourselves because we think we should know all the answers. Great response, and I’m really encouraged by that that you just reached out first to your district level. Hey, come, come work this through with me. Am I are we going the right direction? And then. Yeah, reach out to the companies. Right. The ones that were paying to have their their resource. So let’s figure out from them. And for me what I, what that makes me think of Jenny. Is that the power of your professional network? Yes. You know, you are, as I said earlier in the in in this in this podcast, you are on the AWSP elementary grade level leadership committee. That’s a mouthful. And and you are leading at the state level and, you know, taking information and providing it to your region, but also bringing bringing ideas and thoughts and concerns to the state level. And, not only do we appreciate that, but I think what I, what I’m getting from that is you’re the type of leader that says we are better together. We we are much better doing things together than in isolation. You know, one of go. Go ahead. Jenny Hunt Oh, sorry. One of the things that when I go out and meet people, it’s a really hard for me to be bold in that way. It’s just like, hey, you’re doing something. Can I get your number? Can I text you? Can I email you? And I’ve had to learn that muscle. I probably didn’t do that my first year when I joined the grade level committees quite as much as learning my role and where I fit in. But now I have a vast network of elementary principals. And so when I hear they’re doing something good, like, I need a piece of that, what’s your number or your email? Or can you send that to me? And that has been super powerful. Luckily for me, being on the grade level committees, I have access to a lot of people. But anytime I go to a conference like summer conference or even an online training, I might just say, hey, can I get your contact info? And and and going out of my comfort zone to do that has made a huge difference in learning things, because there’s not things I might not have learned here in my island, literally an island where I don’t have access to as many educators. So that connection through AWSP has been huge for me. Jack Arend Oh, we’re really happy to hear that because, we say often, these jobs are great. They can be challenging, but they should never be lonely. And here you and I, I’m in Olympia, you’re in Oak Harbor, we’re talking on a screen, and we’re sharing this podcast with hundreds of people listening. Right. And how cool is that? That we don’t have to do this by ourselves. There’s people that have gone through it or are going through the exact same things. How do we tackle tier one? What’s happening with our tier two? And what does that darn AWSP leadership framework say about this? Right. So that’s really exciting to Jenny. I, I’m curious, how has the use of data trickled down from you to your teachers to students? Jenny Hunt Yeah. So we, even before it gets to the students, we actually have worked on data literacy for our, our certified staff, but we also worked on it with our classified staff. So not only when we do a data day do we work on the data with our certified staff, but we have a day to day outside of the normal staff meetings with our parent educators so that they can see the work that they’ve been doing and how that affects kids and what students need. And they have great ideas and great reflections, and we capture it all. And when it comes to students, we really started focusing last year on student goal setting and student even down to kindergarten. Well, a little bit we’re working on with our TC. But you know, they’re just learning to be a student right now. But we have the kids school set and reflect on their goal setting. And was it too much or too little and some of it’s achievement, but some of it’s just it might be not achievement, it might just be. I’m going to complete this many lessons independently or so. You know, we’ve taken it from a high level and feeling good with with our staff and now down to for students. And then they share it at the conferences. So their parents are drawn in. And this is something that, you know, it took some time, Jack, but we are we are building our efficacy as a system. And just that sense of I can I can set a goal and I can meet it, which is a life skill for everybody. And, you know, just happens to be a part of our great framework. Right? I’m the goal for, for me is that my teachers can take the data without my support or my lab teacher support and look at it and make an instructional change, either in the moment or maybe it’s their own system, and that’s the gold standard. And I don’t want them to have to rely on me. That’s why we needed a system so that everybody can keep keep it going without me standing there. And when I hear teachers are meeting and not including me to talk about data or changing something or, or they learn something about the SBA and they really want to make sure the kids understand it. And I’m not invited. Well, sometimes a little jealous because I love that stuff. I’m kind of a data nerd, but then I’m super excited because that’s our gold standard, is that the system can run itself without, you know, me having to guide it. Jack Arend I think that is the true, that’s what we all want to get to, right? We want to empower and give give the teachers and the students everything they need to make the next move. How awesome for your teaching staff and your classified staff to all be included in all of the important parts of the piece of the kids that they interact with every day. But how cool that we don’t have to say, well, let’s wait till Jenny gets back from her district office principal meeting before we know how to use this data. You said our kids can’t wait, right? Teachers are brilliant. They are smart and they do incredible things. They just need to know what is it we’re using and how do we as a school want to make sure that our students know the progress they’re making? Jenny Hunt Yeah, and I just love it when teachers come by and say, guess what I found? Or guess what I learned? And they just. I left something on your desk, Jenny. Or I might walk into a couple of educators saying, hey, I, I realize that I am having a hard time engaging so-and-so. So I found a passage to read today on snakes because he really loves snakes. And guess what? Now he’s reading. So, you know, I just needed a different engagement style in my in my lab teacher allows them to bring in some of their things because she’s taught them how to do it. So it’s pretty exciting to work with, you know, people who just love working with kids and want them all to read. It’s not perfect, though, for those listening. It’s not every meeting is not perfect. Every data meeting. Sometimes it can be tense, sometimes there can be tears, and I’ll have to go check in with the teacher and show them the great stuff they’re doing privately. You know, so it’s not a perfect system, but it’s certainly a system that is strengthening in our building. Jack Arend Yeah, clearly, by what you’ve explained, it clearly is doing that. And yes, we all get it. It’s not not every meeting is, gosh, the best thing we’ve ever been to. Right. But everybody’s working towards the goal and using data as the driver. For what? For what kids and adults need. Yeah, right. So I’m going to I’m going to kind of bring us back to a bigger picture of the leadership framework and everything you’ve outlined. Oh my gosh. Jenny. Yes, it’s clearly criterion three. But you talk about culture. You talk about managing your resources, that it’s important that, all of the paraprofessionals in your building that connect with kids, they are also heavily involved in this data literacy and understanding of where the building is going. So smart. So you’re managing resources. You’re creating a culture. But in criterion three, planning with data that you have really anchored a lot of this to. Jenny, what does success look for? What does it look like for that criteria in your school? Jenny Hunt You know, I think there there there’s so many things that are competing that our teachers need to do for kids, right. They you know, we’re doing social emotional work. We’re we’re helping meet the needs of families. They’re teaching reading and math and social studies, all the things. And it’s hard to know where to focus because there’s just so many things on the plate of our teachers. And so when we can pull in some data to see exactly what we need, we can dial it in. You know, we you there’s a couple of ways to approach a need. You can do the shotgun effect, where you just shoot a whole bunch of things out and hope that one hits, and maybe you can just hit it, you know, head on with that one. You know, you need this one intervention to help the kids move to the next level, and we no longer have the time to kind of just throw everything out there and hope that something sticks. So when we can dial it in and, and make our instruction more effective and, and get the teaching done in the time that we have because we just don’t have enough time in the day, then I think, I think that we can help move the needle for our kiddos because they have a lot of needs right now and our time is is limited. So I think, if if we can just use that data in a really meaningful, intentional way, that would be ideal. Right. So teachers looking at the data, using it for instruction, dialing it in and then moving forward, we don’t want more work. We want a more effective work with our kiddos. Jack Arend Yeah. Would you say, Jenny, that your school improvement plan is, kind of aligned with all this data that you’re using? Is that how you’re kind of maybe monitoring some progress? Jenny Hunt Yeah. So we worked with our district. We worked on a strategic plan in the last few years, and then our building plan is aligned, but it’s spot on right now. Our building is focused on first grade reading. We know that if kids aren’t reading, you know, efficiently or at grade level by the end of first grade that there’s really going to be some troubles. And we also know we really need to pour into those early, early years to make sure so that kids don’t get behind. So that is our big focus for reading those early literacy skills. And so all of our work aligns with it. When we look at data, we talk about what our strategic plan is, where we need to go with our kiddos, and and the movement we need to make. When we’re looking at our tier one reading, our first grade group was the first one to jump into this new, framework that we’re working on. So I was super excited and proud of that first grade team because that is one of our measures for our plan. So yeah, everything that we do is revolving around, our data literacy with reading. Our plan is tied to reading and it’s just all kind of goes together really nicely for us. Jack Arend Wow, you are painting such a fun picture of what the work that’s going on in your building under your leadership, and I know you would never say that, so I am. Thank you. Just thank you for being bold with your leadership. I want you to think about. So here we are, 2026. Right? And you’ve been in that building for 11 years. And thank the good lord Covid is in our rearview mirror, right? There’s still some implications, and we all know that. And we’re still all working through things, with students, but even with ourselves. But I want you to think five years ago. So 2021. Right? What’s what’s changed in your building around around how teachers view students. Jenny Hunt Gosh. What’s changed? That’s a hard one, Jack. You know, I think I think we’ve really been looking at students as, mister at that one again. Jack Arend You bet. Jenny Hunt Like, let me go. I wanted to clap at least once. All right. So one thing I think that we’ve really been focusing on since 2021 is that all students are gen ed students first. So we’ve been working on our Mtss model to tie this all together. And all students need that tier one instruction. They shouldn’t be pulled out. Everybody has a right to tier one instruction. They belong in tier one instruction, and they can engage in tier one instruction in reading. I think it used to be that if you couldn’t decode or sound out a word, you were pulled out because you couldn’t access it. But those same very students who might not be able to decode can talk all about comprehension, and they can enjoy the story and participate in the story and talk about the characters and the themes and complex things. But kids were generally pulled out, and I’m not necessarily saying in my building or in specific buildings, but just in general in Washington, you know, it wasn’t uncommon for kids to be pulled out of tier one instruction, or at least a part of it, because they weren’t engaging. But all I had to do was read the passage to the kiddos and then they could participate in all of it. And so we are fiercely protecting our tier one block that kids are not pulled out of that block, and we are helping with decoding. It’s been an interesting change seeing that we have more kids who who can start to decode, but they’re not always getting the comprehension piece. So we’re doing both. We’re supporting both. But one of the things that we’ve really looked at is not not labeling a kiddo and saying, well, you know, they’re Mrs. So-and-so’s kid because they’re in resource or, you know, they’re the labs kid. Nope. We’re all students that access our tier one. And then sometimes we might not we might need an extra step. So then we need some tier two. We might need some tier three. I’m not a tier one kid, a tier two kid, a tier three kid. But we’re all gen ed students who need access. And that’s been a big push to make sure that kids are not falling further behind. Because if you’re pulled out because you can’t decode now, you’ve got a whole and a whole other area that you would have never had. And that’s not special education. That’s a gap in the system. That’s a systems issue. So, you know, we started with, talking about that and learning about our data and how to use it and what’s important, data and getting rid of the noise of the data we don’t need. Right. We had to push all that away. That’s not the important data. And once we had our tier two fixed, that’s why we moved into our tier one. And our tier two is now meeting the needs of the students and legal, you know, compliance and making sure everybody gets what they need there. But we also needed to, dial in our tier one because we’re moving away from our discrepancy model in Washington state. So we are going to be talking about students maybe needing further support because they’re not responding to tier one or maybe tier two. And so they need access to different supports, but you have to have a solid tier one to be able to say it’s not a systems issue, it’s really a learning challenge. And that really scares me because I don’t want to do something for a child that might be harmful because our system wasn’t ready. So our systems need to be ready for the kids. The kids don’t need to be ready for the systems. And that kind of ties together of leaving, you know, the tier two world of fixing it and now moving into tier one, which is the area we’re living in now, all based on our data, and criterion three and criterion eight with Closing the Gap. Jack Arend Yes, yes. I thank you for bringing up criterion because your whole your whole conversation, our whole conversation is what you’re doing with with that as well. But really that criterion three for you and your leadership and your building has really I don’t want to say it’s sped the process along, but it might have given you a map for this journey of what that could look like. I’m going to put you on the spot a little bit with this next one, but did. So that’s a huge change in your building in five years, right, that you’re focused and teachers all agree they’re Gen ed and tier one kids first, I love that. Did you introduce or did you all did you find like a data protocol that worked really well with your staff? Do you have a favorite of how you how you all look through data and have conversations around that. Jenny Hunt You know, I don’t know that we followed a specific protocol. We kind of started, you know. My lab teacher is really great with data. And my previous lab teacher before that was amazing with data. So I learned a lot from my teachers. You know, we started with, a overview of like a larger scale data, the big picture and, and kind of comparing it to the year before we added some cohort data, because I think sometimes we forget to compare kids to where they were rather than how, you know, there’s always things that happen and cohorts are different. So comparing theirs from year to year. And it was kind of more based on the questions that our staff had to be particular to them. So that’s evolved over the years based on the questions they ask. What we’re seeing with kids, the trends we’re seeing. And then we just unpacked it and then had time for reflection. One, one big piece with that. And I know this isn’t the data protocol, but actually from AWSP and some of the protocols we’ve used is we just know that that reflection piece is so big when you’re trying to change a system or dial in a system. And so we have been giving more time for that reflection piece, for our staff. And then we’re and then we’re capturing it. So when I do my mid-year data talks, then we go back and we look at the reflections from the pre from the beginning of the year. And then we might look at the reflections again at the end of the year. And then we ask teachers to give a little bit of feedback on the cohort for the next year’s teacher so that they can see those reflections as well. I think that that’s kind of really changed, you know, invalidated some thinking and some ideas and then challenged thinking and ideas and helped us learn and grow. Jack Arend Jenny, thank you for bringing up reflection. And thank you for being a leader that knows if you don’t carve out time for that, it just won’t happen. We all are running a million miles an hour and what do we know now? We know that reflection is the key to change and it is the key to improvement. My goodness, when the teacher student growth goals were revised, it required reflection. And, there’s a saying out there, the more reflective you are, the more effective you are. And it really does take a leader to, to design things like you have done where there is reflection, because that is where we grow, that is where we have something to look back to and go, oh, that did work. Or the oh, that didn’t work. And I was going to try it again. I’m going to try something else. So thank you for bringing that up. It is something that we try at AWSP in any of the learning we do is to really carve out reflection time, and that we have found that leaders that first go, come on, let’s keep going. Let’s keep going, because that’s the pace we’re in. And when we really provide time to shift down a couple of gears and let ourselves relax and reflect, great things will happen. Jenny Hunt And I think that builds on culture too, because people start to connect and say, I was thinking something similarly, or gosh, I never saw it that way. You always have that one person on your staff that challenges like, wait a minute, maybe it’s not so strong in the curriculum and we need to find something else to help out with that, because I’ve been looking through and I can’t find anywhere where where that’s strong. And so we need to find something else. And so I think when we changed our growth goals for teachers, it really helped people feel heard and seen that they that okay, so maybe they made the mark or maybe they did exceeded. And then you get to hear their thinking about it and they really feel valued that, you know, what’s going on and what happened with that teaching in that moment, whether it’s a celebration or a challenge. And I think that that was a good change for us. Jack Arend Yeah. Oh my gosh, what a fun conversation we have been able to have. So for those of you listening, Jenny Hunt at Broadview Elementary in Oak Harbor School District, so many cool things are happening at that building. So many cool things. I’m going to wrap this up with one final question. Jenny. If you could offer one piece of leadership advice to other principals listening today, what would it be? Jenny Hunt You know, I am going to break a rule, which I never do, and I’m going to do two because I think really important, especially kind of to those leaders who are maybe not in a community of other administrators or feeling a little bit lonely like I did at the beginning. Number one, take care of yourself. The work is always going to be there. It’s always going to be urgent. There’s always going to be something going on. But you will always have the urgency. You will not always have your health, and the kids need you to be in it for the long haul. You know, it’s not healthy to change over your leaders over and over again. I know sometimes we can’t, you know, stop that. But take care of yourself. Your health is important. Your important. Take the day off. Go to the doctor. Connect with your family. Connect with your friends. Do the things you need to do. And then the number two part of taking care of yourself is building a network. So whether it’s the teacher leaders in your building, the people that you can talk with and bounce ideas off with, or just have that conversation about how you’re doing or whether it’s other administrators in your building or whether it’s reaching out and just saying, hey, can I connect with you? You know, recently I joined Next Level Leaders, and, one night after we were doing the social, which I know AWSP and WASA both do very intentionally so that we can get to know each other. I just said, give me your numbers. And then on Fridays I might send them a funny meme about it being Friday. You know, but having the network or, people to connect with makes you know that you’re not the only one having those same struggles, and you didn’t do it wrong and you didn’t make a mistake. You just need a little reassurance sometimes, because you don’t always know if you’re doing the right thing, especially if there’s only one of you in a building, you know. So take care of yourself and build that network because you need it to to do this for the long term and to do it for students and then to be whole and well for yourself and your family. Jack Arend Are great advice. Great advice. Thank you for that, Jenny. I can’t thank you enough for the time that you carved out of your day to help me with this podcast and help to highlight areas of the framework that you have found success in, and that you have leaned into to create systems and a culture in your building that every teacher matters, every kid matters, all staff matters. And we’re just we’re all working hard to make sure every kid can be their best self. And so for those of you listening, Jenny Hunt, Broadview Elementary and gosh, I’m sure if you reached out to her, she’d be happy to include you in her network. Yeah. So thanks, Jenny. Thank you for all that you do. Thank you for your leadership and for your listening out there. Thank you for being, for for listening to this latest edition of AWSP podcasts. A matter of principles. Thanks, Jenny.