Embracing Leadership in Audiology
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[00:00:00] Dakota Sharp: You're listening to On The Ear, an audiology podcast sponsored by SpeechTherapyPD. com. I'm your host, Dr. Dakota Sharp, AuD, CCC-A, audiologist, clinical professor, and lifelong learner. While I primarily work with pediatric cochlear implants and hearing aids, I am absolutely intrigued by the many areas of audiology and communication in general.

[00:00:35] Dakota Sharp: This podcast aims to explore the science of hearing, balance, and communication with a variety of experts in hopes of equipping you with the skills. To better serve your patients, colleagues, and students. So let's go. We are On The Ear brought to you by Speech Therapy [00:01:00] PD. 

[00:01:01] Dakota Sharp: Audiologists receive years of training and continuing education to master the clinical side of our responsibilities. We have training in a variety of clinical settings and eventually go on to train and precept future audiologists ourselves. But in many contexts, clinicians either seek out or are thrust into positions of leadership positions that very few received any prior training to any prior training for in their education.

[00:01:23] Dakota Sharp: So if that leadership opportunity comes along. Do you take it? Should you take it? How would you grow? How would you support the people that you're leading? There's so many questions you probably have, and today's returning guest is going to help lead the way. Dr. Madison Howe, AuD, CCC-A, is an assistant professor and director of clinical education for the Doctor of Audiology program at the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences.

[00:01:45] Dakota Sharp: She also practices clinically at Arkansas Children's Hospital and serves as the Audiology Discipline Coordinator for the Arkansas Leadership in Neurodevelopmental and Related Disabilities. Doctor Howe received her AuD from Auburn University and has completed coursework towards an MBA in healthcare management.

[00:01:58] Dakota Sharp: We're going to have some questions about that. [00:02:00] And she's currently enrolled in the ASHA Leadership Development Program. Her passions include pediatric audiology, leadership development, community outreach, and student growth. Dr. Howe serves in many leadership roles, including Director of Communications for the Society of Ear, Nose, and Throat Development in Children, or CENTAC, and as the Vice President for the Arkansas Speech Language Hearing Association.

[00:02:18] Dakota Sharp: She also serves on the Audiology Praxis National Advisory Council, so you can blame her for your difficult praxis questions, and on the ASHA Multicultural Issues Board. Just a couple of quick financial disclosures, I'm host of On the Ear and receive compensation from SpeechTherapyPD. com. And Dr. Howe received compensation from SpeechTherapyPD. com for her contributions to today's presentation. Now, you all might recall, and I'm sure you will recall, Dr. Howe from episode 37, Gender Affirming Care and Audiology. And it hasn't been that long, but look at all of the additions to her resume since then. She is just moving and grooving. So what, what happened, Madison?

[00:02:50] Dakota Sharp: How, how did the bio evolve so drastically? Did you jump in or were you pulled in? I guess is my first question. That's like a leadership kind of starting point, right? You pulled [00:03:00] in or you jumping in? 

[00:03:00] Madison Howe: Yeah, I think it was a little bit of both, you know, like there was opportunity and it's like once you, Dip your toe in that water, you just jump right in and it is full force.

[00:03:11] Madison Howe: So yeah, I was lucky to get to step into an opportunity of being a clinic manager. And that's when I quickly realized that we don't have a lot of leadership training in our field. And so I kind of had to take the steps to getting that experience. on my own, which kind of led to everything else blowing up.

[00:03:30] Madison Howe: So, yeah, it was kind of a mix of opportunity and just diving right in. 

[00:03:34] Dakota Sharp: Perfect. So it seems like you noticed a need , in leadership, I guess, positions. I feel like when I first graduated, my first job was in South Carolina. And as soon as I would meet somebody who was a part of one thing, they're like, Hey, we really need people for X, Y, Z, or Hey, we were and it's so easy to very quickly find, Oh my gosh, there's like so many boards and so many, you know, Committees and things that that need help. Is that something that you found too? Was that there's just a big need across the board? [00:04:00] 

[00:04:00] Madison Howe: Absolutely, you know, and I think there's this big shift right now of really trying to get younger people into those boards and committees because we kind of are at this turning point in our career where we've got these amazing big name people that Have carried the field for so long and we're so honored to have been led by them for, for a really long time. You know, I think of like James Jerger and, you know, all these people that have been wonderful are moving into retirement and who's going to fill those seats. And so we're, we are seeing sort of the shift in this need for new minds, new, fresh faces, and ideas to step up and fill these leadership roles.

[00:04:36] Madison Howe: And I think it's so cool. To get to serve on some of these committees and boards, because you are seeing lots of generations. You're seeing the people who've been around for a while that have great mentorship and then this new generation. But I think this is the first generation that that's kind of having to, to get into it.

[00:04:52] Madison Howe: You know, before it was like, well, audiology was evolving and growing and becoming a field. Now we're in this phase of what's next. [00:05:00] Who's going to carry it now? And so it is, it is, this is a great conversation to have because we need so many leaders in so many ways in our field right now. 

[00:05:08] Dakota Sharp: So, so tell me then what was that kind of like first step?

[00:05:11] Dakota Sharp: So if you could give us like a quick timeline of how fast you went from, okay, I'm officially graduated. I'm an audiologist. I just want to get my chops and be a good clinician to, oh crap, I'm like in charge of leading or guiding or something. What was that timeline like? 

[00:05:25] Madison Howe: So I spent about five solid years, just clinical practice, learning, being involved in organizations, my state organization, ASHA, you know, Really kind of seeing what that looked like.

[00:05:36] Madison Howe: And then the deeper I got into it, the more I wanted to be involved. And so, you know, it started small joining a committee at our state level and getting to see the change we could make there. And then that kind of evolved into, well, maybe you want to be on an ASHA committee, or maybe you want to evolve into being on a different committee.

[00:05:53] Madison Howe: And then eventually that. Through mentorship and what I learned in those committees that turned into, well, maybe you want to [00:06:00] serve on the board or maybe you want to maybe you want to take this leadership role. And I think that's what's really cool about our field is that everyone's a mentor, even when you don't realize it, or you're not in a formal position.

[00:06:11] Madison Howe: So serving on these committees and learning from these people. You are going to grow, even if you're nervous about it, just step stepping one little foot in saying, you know what, I'm going to try to join this committee no matter what level it's at, I guarantee you, someone will be on that committee that will mentor you and kind of push you to the next opportunity.

[00:06:29] Madison Howe: And it's now really cool to get to be on this side of it and see new people joining these committees and say, Hey, I think you could try for this next thing. So it really is a world that once you get into, it can really take off because people are really encouraging. 

[00:06:42] Dakota Sharp: Awesome. So it sounds like it start, it started pretty locally for you with a state level organization, which is probably about as local as like more structured leadership organizations go, right?

[00:06:54] Dakota Sharp: That's probably about as small as it gets. And then getting involved there, I'm assuming like an [00:07:00] officer position is open and they're like, Madison's been doing a great job in this committee. Like you should really do that kind of thing. What kind of positions were there at that level in terms of leadership for you to get involved in?

[00:07:11] Madison Howe: Yeah, you know, I think one thing that's great about our state organizations is audiology is still relatively small in most of our states. And so, typically, you know, you might be one of 30 to 100 people that are in that state organization. So they're always needing an audiology voice in some capacity.

[00:07:29] Madison Howe: For me. They were really looking for somebody to be on the communications committee first. Which I thought was really cool. Cause I'm like, I like social media. I like scrolling. And so that was like, 

[00:07:39] Dakota Sharp: you're the young person. You can take over this. I have been thrust into that so many times. 

[00:07:44] Madison Howe: Well, you do a great job with it.

[00:07:46] Dakota Sharp: Not, not exactly, but you got to figure it out as you go. When they tell you, you know, when you're voluntold, I guess that's hold on. Let's do a little sidetrack real quick in the leadership progression. How often is volun-telling a part of you [00:08:00] landing in a position for me, it's been a couple times now. 

[00:08:03] Madison Howe: I think a couple, it was, it was, it was kind of like, you know, give this a shot and you know, I totally recognize it may not be what people love and they're voluntold and they're like one and done and I'm out and that's great. But yes, I do think sometimes you need that push, especially when you're young in your career and you're like, Oh no, all I've ever wanted to be is just a clinical audiologist.

[00:08:23] Madison Howe: That, you know, I'm not, I haven't done this long enough to be able to. To be on a podcast talking about leadership. And so I think that 

[00:08:31] Dakota Sharp: wait to be clear. I did not voluntell You didn't come back. I invited you but it was not a voluntell. 

[00:08:36] Madison Howe: Yes. No, I reached out but you know, yeah, I think that that you kind of have to see past it and that that's sort of that silver lining of You know, do you look at that as gosh I have to do this thing.

[00:08:47] Madison Howe: I don't really want to do it And if that's the case, maybe, you know, serving in one of these roles really isn't for you. And that's, that's totally cool. But if you find yourself like, Ooh, I'm kind of excited that someone passed me that torch [00:09:00] and, you know, maybe it'll turn into something. But you know, I think don't ever discount what a small opportunity could turn into because you might be voluntold to run the Instagram page for a day, and that could blow up to being on the board as the communications director.

[00:09:15] Dakota Sharp: Yeah, that's I think that's a great example. 

[00:09:17] Madison Howe: Yeah, that's kind of how I got into syntax was they were like Would you do like an audiology day in the life of instagram takeover and now three years later here we are 

[00:09:27] Dakota Sharp: Yeah, that's that's awesome. I definitely want to talk more about syntax, too I feel like we're just kind of getting started with that last time I talked to you and now you guys are up and established You have some great.

[00:09:34] Dakota Sharp: What's the word? I'm looking for not communicating. Conference some educational materials kind of coming up that i'm really excited about. 

[00:09:40] Madison Howe: Yeah 

[00:09:40] Dakota Sharp: but yeah, I was, I was the, I'm the kind of person who did have to be voluntold. I was like, yeah, I don't really think that's for me. I have, I have a lot of hobbies.

[00:09:47] Dakota Sharp: Like, I'm not really interested in doing that. And then was invite, like, you know, borderline has stirred, strongly encouraged, and then it became such a great thing to be a part of what I'm talking about is specifically a state organization. And I met [00:10:00] so many people and like, like was able to accomplish so many different projects we were working on because I made the connections with people I never would have talked to otherwise.

[00:10:06] Dakota Sharp: So it was great. Okay, cool. So we, we have, we've established, we, we feel good. We're kind of set in our, in our clinical skills. And then we get involved at the state level, which I would say most people who've been on this podcast have been strong encouragers of, and, you know, now they've been on the podcast to talk about all the things they're experts in.

[00:10:24] Dakota Sharp: So I feel like it's definitely a place where we all need to, to you know, join together. So committee. Potentially a leadership position. So then what does it look like to transition to something more nationally? 

[00:10:34] Madison Howe: Yeah. So, you know, I think a really natural progression is obviously to go from your state organization to AAA or ASHA.

[00:10:42] Madison Howe: Thankfully both of those organizations, you don't really get voluntold. They have call for volunteers. And so my first year, I just was like, you know what? I'd love to serve on a committee at the national level. And I submitted my name and I actually didn't get it the first year. It took a couple of years and, but it took me growing [00:11:00] my network and growing, you know, my, my skills and my knowledge.

[00:11:03] Madison Howe: And then that's how I ended up with you know, a national committee level. So definitely, I think, you know, just putting yourself out there and if it's really something you want, not being afraid to say, maybe it didn't work out this year, but maybe then the next year It's also really great to talk with people who've served on those committees and to get to pick their brain about what does that look like.

[00:11:22] Madison Howe: And I've found that so many people in our field are so willing to have a zoom call or a phone call to chat with you and mentor you. Cause they do recognize that we are a small field and we, we have to move forward and, you know, pass the torch. And so many people in our field have been willing to do that.

[00:11:40] Dakota Sharp: So, yeah, I think that's a great point. I feel like we have a mutual connection with Donna Smiley, who was on the podcast on episode 31. 

[00:11:48] Madison Howe: Yeah. 

[00:11:48] Dakota Sharp: And she, she really talks about kind of a similar topic, but from her perspective as somebody who's been in the field for a long time. And I think this is going to be a great kind of like companion episode to have this kind of like, in the [00:12:00] beginnings stages of moving through these leadership stages.

[00:12:02] Dakota Sharp: Positions and then somebody who's able to look back a bit more on that. So I think that's really cool So, that sounds like somebody you've probably been connecting with who's been mentoring you which is great so then tell me what you've seen from the from the state to the national level in terms of need like We say like oh we need leaders.

[00:12:19] Dakota Sharp: We need volunteers. We need that But like how is that how is the lack of that like actually having an impact on things? 

[00:12:25] Madison Howe: Well, and I think they kind of coincide in a really specific way. So, you know, nationally, we need voices that are diverse and that are seeing lots of different things. So, that's one cool part about joining the Multicultural Issues Board, the MIB for ASHA, is just seeing how Our field is transition.

[00:12:44] Madison Howe: And I mean, even us on this podcast, we started out as a primary female driven field. We have men entering the field. Now people from all over, we have international students coming to this country to learn audiology. And so there's such a need to [00:13:00] support this new diverse workforce. And you know, we, we hear so much about diversity, equity, and inclusion, but then to really understand I think it's important for us to understand how it impacts our field, not only for our patients, but for our coworkers, for other people in the field and making sure everyone's voice is heard and whether you can represent a minority in one of these groups, or you can serve as a The word just left me an ally.

[00:13:26] Madison Howe: You can serve as an ally you know, to, to help have a voice for these people. And that's really where I think we're heading. You know, we're also facing lots of things in our fields. Thankfully Dakota and I being in pediatrics, don't have to worry about it as much, but over the counter hearing aids, you know, we have so many things that.

[00:13:42] Madison Howe: We need people who've actually been on the front lines voicing and expressing what that looks like moving forward. And then the cool piece is if you serve at the state level also, you get to bring very specific things from your state to the national level. So, you know, one thing here in Arkansas we're [00:14:00] advocating for right now is we don't have adult cochlear implant coverage under Medicaid.

[00:14:05] Madison Howe: People, kids turn 21 and their cochlear implant breaks and it's like too bad, you know, and so, we've gotten to marry kind of the national level with the state level to advocate for that. And I think that's why it's so cool to get to be involved in both and to get to really advocate not only for our profession as a whole, but then to now, to get to, to advocate for your state and what's happening back home and to see the impact that that can have on.

[00:14:31] Dakota Sharp: Yeah, I think that link makes a lot of sense, and especially when you think of your progression going from something more local to something more national, there's probably, on top of you having a better understanding of the issues you can bring to the table nationally that you might have more resources to help address, more networking, more lobbying power, right, is also just an understanding of like, How these organizations work.

[00:14:55] Dakota Sharp: I remember when I got into college and I joined this, this is like a deep dive, but I joined [00:15:00] an acapella group and it was like all very structured, right? We had, we had to follow, like we had like parliamentary procedure, right? We had to second, we had to motion things and say, I'd never done anything like that before.

[00:15:09] Dakota Sharp: Right? So it's like, if you're, if you're not used to how organizations are run, getting involved at the state level is probably a much more, you know, easy transition to learning a lot of the ways that organizations, you know, are. are managed and run before you transition to something more national, where it might be a little more, I don't know, what's, strict might be the wrong word, but formal, yeah, that feels fair.

[00:15:32] Dakota Sharp: So, was there any kind of like, I wouldn't, it's not like a culture shock, but you know what I mean, was there anything surprising by how things are run at the national level versus the state level? 

[00:15:40] Madison Howe: You know, I think I was more surprised, I, I thought it would be more formal. I think I was more surprised at a level of, of, you know, Casualness that came with it.

[00:15:48] Madison Howe: And I think the most surprising thing was more on a personal level of I kind of had in my mind, like they want me to be this person, you know, they want me to be this type of leader. I need to talk about [00:16:00] these issues and I kind of had a humbling moment of realizing, like, the reason that you are selected as a leader is because you authentically bring something unique to the table and they didn't want to hear, you know, they didn't want to know about what I knew about clinic or, you know, trying to make myself look like I could do all they wanted a young person that could bring voice to, you know, what, what It's happening on the younger side of things for our new grads, for our early career professionals.

[00:16:26] Madison Howe: And it, it took me a second to realize like, Oh, I, they just want me to be authentically myself. And I think that, you know, that's a lesson we learn at different points in our life, but I really expected it to be very formal. And, you know, I needed to present myself in a three piece suit and be very, very on my P's and Q's.

[00:16:45] Madison Howe: But the best conversations that I've had with people in these different roles has just been the ones that's like, what issues are you seeing right now? What do we need to be worried about? And it's just authentic. And so, I think, you know, if you're [00:17:00] worried about it, they're not looking for you to be something that's not you.

[00:17:03] Madison Howe: They just want the authentic version of yourself. So to me, that was, was kind of shocking. Cause I pictured everybody sitting around a nice wooden table

[00:17:10] Dakota Sharp: for sure. Yeah. 

[00:17:12] Madison Howe: And but everyone's just authentic and they really, really want your authentic input. 

[00:17:16] Dakota Sharp: That's awesome. That's awesome. I think that's maybe calming to people who are a little nervous about kind of dipping their toes into that kind of a role.

[00:17:24] Dakota Sharp: It might not be as serious as you picture. Okay, so speaking of transitions like that, tell me a little bit about the growing pains transitioning from a primarily clinic role to still having, you know, clinic roles, but now having all of these other things. Like, what was that transition like just from your, I guess, from your day to day?

[00:17:43] Madison Howe: Yeah, I think you know, from the perspective of serving on like state boards and committees, that just was a time commitment because a lot of that stuff happens after, after hours that's more volunteer. So definitely time commitment there. But as far as like having a formal leadership position, maybe in your [00:18:00] organization, there was a lot of growing pains when I moved into a role like that.

[00:18:03] Madison Howe: Number one, for sure, being that we just don't have training in our field. We're starting to see programs like I'm doing the, the leadership development program right now with ASHA and that's been fantastic. But that's a relatively new program and, you know, we don't learn about it in school necessarily about like, how would you lead a group of audiologists?

[00:18:23] Madison Howe: And you can even do a quick Google search or a lit review and there's not even like Literature out there about how are we training people in these roles? There's there's lots of Literature in training nurses because they use a hierarchy system and that feels very natural to them It doesn't feel natural to us.

[00:18:41] Madison Howe: So like you probably remember Dakota in your externship or in your first job You walked in you met the leader. They were kind of always the leader to you That already set the tone, but that's not always the case. So like, you know for me You you move up into a leadership position But now the people that you're leading have [00:19:00] just been your co workers for several years.

[00:19:03] Madison Howe: So I think the biggest one that I think of is that transition from being a co worker to now what some people would say is the boss. You know, how do you, how do you still command the level that a leader needs to, to have with respect and, and leading the team, but still maintain those relationships that you've built with your co workers.

[00:19:25] Madison Howe: And that can be really challenging. 

[00:19:28] Dakota Sharp: I believe that can be really challenging. That sounds Like a little bit of my personal nightmare, but so then what, so what do you do, right? You don't have the, the background and there's all these, you know, I have to imagine the biggest thing is like, you know, just interpersonal conflict management.

[00:19:45] Dakota Sharp: But of course there's all the other things that come in the day to day of a leadership role in a clinic. So what did you do once this became the reality for you? Where do you go? 

[00:19:55] Madison Howe: You know, I think it's. Professional, like traditional [00:20:00] professionalism would tell us that you immediately have to code switch and immediately become this person that's like, no, you can only view me in this one way as your leader.

[00:20:08] Madison Howe: And I don't think that is truly what happens. You know, I think you can still maintain those relationships you've had. You can leverage them to your benefit. You know, you know these people. Better because you were their coworker, you know, their strengths, you know, their, their areas that they need to improve in and, and you can utilize the relationship you've built with them to help lead them.

[00:20:30] Madison Howe: But you know, I, I think, and we'll probably talk about this in a little bit, but coming in with a vision and sharing that vision is so important because that's, what's really going to help them see you as a leader and kind of separate that boundary. But it is, I think it looks different for every team, but don't be afraid to leverage the relationships that you've already built.

[00:20:50] Madison Howe: And I think, you know, I think if you truly have some natural leadership qualities, people have recognized that in you for a while and it won't surprise them when you [00:21:00] transition over. 

[00:21:01] Dakota Sharp: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. I like that coming from like starting with what you already had, right. Which is positive relationships with these people and then using that to drive what leadership looks like, I guess. So then when you, when you're interested, I guess, in kind of expanding your understanding of leadership itself, or, you know, just the terminology that can be used in a professional development context, as it pertains to leadership, where do you go to look? Because like you mentioned, we don't have any direct, it's not like there's audiology leadership 101 that you can just tap into, or maybe, maybe there is, I don't know.

[00:21:34] Dakota Sharp: So, so where did you go? Like what resources did you, did you pull? 

[00:21:37] Madison Howe: And you know, there's some things like there's some stuff in the clinical nursing world that can apply to leadership and audiology, but it is challenging. And so, you know, for me, I kind of dived head first and I was like, well, if I'm going to do this, I need to get a degree in it.

[00:21:53] Madison Howe: So I pursued an MBA in healthcare management. And while I learned a lot through that and A lot [00:22:00] of it was applicable. I don't necessarily think that you need to go to that extreme. I think there's a lot of resources that you can utilize that maybe don't require a degree commitment. I do think, you know, ASHA got some great programs.

[00:22:12] Madison Howe: I know AAA recently started the I'm not going to look up the name. I wrote it down. It's the future leaders of audiology conference. So AAA offers that there are some, you know, third party programs with workshops you can find. If you are lucky enough to be a part of a larger organization, like a hospital, they will usually have some access to some type of leadership training program.

[00:22:36] Madison Howe: But surprisingly, they don't just like naturally be like Dakota, You're a leader now. We're going to put you through this program. Oftentimes you need to go to them and say, Hey, these are the skills I really want to develop or work on. 

[00:22:49] Dakota Sharp: Sure. 

[00:22:49] Madison Howe: And you plug me in with, with some type of program to help me with that.

[00:22:53] Madison Howe: So unfortunately a lot of it is self seeking out those things. To me, the [00:23:00] biggest, the best thing I did was find a mentor. 

[00:23:03] Madison Howe: And I would highly recommend that that be someone that is not a part of your organization. 

[00:23:08] Dakota Sharp: Oh, interesting. Tell me more about that. 

[00:23:10] Madison Howe: So you're going to need somebody that can mentor you and guide you.

[00:23:15] Madison Howe: And while it might sound great to have someone in the organization, which maybe you do, maybe you have another one that's in your organization, but I really would advocate that you need someone outside your organization because you're going to have that day that you are frustrated with your organization.

[00:23:29] Madison Howe: And. Maybe you need to voice that because as a leader, you need to talk through things out loud sometimes. And so having a mentor that is a safe space that you could say, you know, what upper administration is asking us to do this, and I'm really frustrated. And I don't really know how I'm going to make this happen.

[00:23:47] Madison Howe: Having that third party just makes it so much easier to be able to express some of that frustration and work through it so that you can then lead forward. So that is one thing I would, I can't recommend enough as finding a mentor. [00:24:00] 

[00:24:00] Dakota Sharp: Yeah, that's a, that's a great tip. I really hadn't considered it. I mean, part of me is like, wouldn't you want somebody who knows the ins and outs, but no, you're right.

[00:24:05] Dakota Sharp: You also want somebody who does not know the ins and outs so that you can complain about those things and vent those frustrations, but also get an outside perspective that isn't stuck in that system. I think that's, that's really good advice. We, there was, we did an episode with Riley DeBacker in I think it's like in the 30s, 35 or so on mentorship specifically and kind of his work in that realm and kind of, you know, guiding audiologists through that.

[00:24:30] Dakota Sharp: How did you go about? Was it, I'm always interested in people's kind of like mentorship stories, how they fell into a mentorship role or sought one out themselves. So was this a more formal thing that you structured? Was it pretty informal? How did that go about? 

[00:24:42] Madison Howe: I think early in my career, it was very informal.

[00:24:45] Madison Howe: You know, it was just sort of people that happened to be in my life that I, you know, would encounter through state organizations. And when I'd see them, we'd kind of catch up and have deep conversations. I did do the leadership mentoring program with ASHA, the [00:25:00] LMP, which they kind of pair you with a mentor based on common interests.

[00:25:04] Madison Howe: And that was when I really took off with a mentoring relationship. My mentor was at a completely different state, completely different part of the country. And in so many ways, it was refreshing to know that she'd experienced similar things that I had gone through. Kind of just that feeling of like, you're not alone and it's not just where you are that this is happening.

[00:25:25] Madison Howe: So, you know, that that's a great outlet is to go through an organization like AAA or ASHA to find a mentor. You know, but I, I think it doesn't necessarily have to be formal. If you find someone that you're connecting with, you can just say, Hey, I'm in this phase of my career right now. I really am seeking someone to mentor me through it.

[00:25:42] Madison Howe: Would you be interested in just meeting once a month and talking through things that are going on. But that has been one of the most valuable things I've done is finding a mentor. And it's cool to still connect with them too. Even if we only connect three or four times a year now, but just to catch up and I think it's equally [00:26:00] as cool for the mentor to get to, to pass the torch.

[00:26:03] Dakota Sharp: Yeah, I absolutely love my mentors. Shout out to them. They have both been guests on this podcast, but I won't call them out by name. But early on you, you better believe I had to stretch my network thin to find guests for this thing, but now I've got amazing people like you. Okay, so tell me a little bit about the decision to look into an MBA.

[00:26:21] Dakota Sharp: What took you down that road? Now, I'm somebody who loves school. Like I'm like, give me a reason to go back to school. Like I will go in a heartbeat, but I don't know about an MBA. It sounds like too much math. 

[00:26:33] Madison Howe: It was a lot of math. And I will say the accounting and the economics courses were the hardest to get through.

[00:26:38] Madison Howe: You know, so I, at the time I was in a clinic manager role at a children's hospital. And I really went back and forth between a master's in health administration and an MBA and kind of the advice I was given by the mentors in my life was the MBA is sort of the way to go with that because it [00:27:00] encompasses so much more leadership and not just administration, which That's an interesting, when you get in that world, it's an interesting distinction between leadership and administration because they're two very different things.

[00:27:14] Madison Howe: And so leading people was really what I was interested in learning more about. And while there was some math involved in the MBA, I did feel like I learned a lot more about leadership theories and, you know, utilizing people's strengths. I learned a lot about myself. And so it thankfully I found an online program that was self paced.

[00:27:35] Madison Howe: So I was able to still work. I didn't have to, you know, give up my life to get an MBA, which was really important to me. And I needed something that would work with my, my current job. But, you know, like I said, like I learned a lot, but I still think that you could learn a lot of those things through other outlets.

[00:27:50] Madison Howe: I don't think you necessarily would need an MBA. 

[00:27:53] Dakota Sharp: Yeah, I think that's, thanks for, to maybe giving some people off a 

[00:27:56] Madison Howe: don't put yourself through the accounting class, please. It was not fun. [00:28:00] It's not us, audiology brained folks, are not meant to do accounting. 

[00:28:03] Dakota Sharp: Yes, it's not, it's definitely not for me.

[00:28:05] Dakota Sharp: Okay, so, but I'm sure in this process you've learned a lot of things, specifically in the more, like, let's get a little bit nerdy in terms of, like, leadership theory, because that's probably one of the things if you were going to start, a leadership for audiologists class.

[00:28:19] Madison Howe: Yeah. 

[00:28:19] Dakota Sharp: Of course, it's going to be about relationships and it's going to be about accounting. No, I'm just kidding, but I'm sure it's going to have some of these like theories and things. So where, where would you start? What would be like one on one in like some of the theory that people should learn? 

[00:28:32] Madison Howe: Yeah. So, you know, there's, I'm not going to bore you with all the different types of leadership theory that are out there. 

[00:28:37] Dakota Sharp: What else are we here for? We're not going to be bored. You're crushing this. 

[00:28:41] Madison Howe: You know, there's so many that have evolved over time but there's really one that I feel like is, is kind of the gold standard right now, which is the transformational leadership theory.

[00:28:50] Madison Howe: So, this was coined in the 1970s and it was sort of in response to the current trendy leadership style, which was transactional [00:29:00] leaderships. So that transactional leadership is based in like, Dakota, I'm asking you to do this. If you do it, I'm going to reward you. Okay. Cool. So it's just transactional.

[00:29:09] Madison Howe: So it'd be like, Dakota, I need you to see eight patients in four hours instead of six. And if you do that, you'll get a raise. transactional leadership didn't really foster innovation. 

[00:29:23] Madison Howe: The employee just kind of was like, I'm just executing orders here, you know, very military, very just like do and get rewarded.

[00:29:31] Madison Howe: But in the seventies, with all that feel good love that was going on in this sort of mind awakening, people were like, we want to contribute, you know, we want to innovate. And transformational leadership theory was kind of Born. So it's, it's really based in influencing and inspiring others. So, using that same example under trace transformational leadership theory, I would come to you and say, Hey, Dakota, we need to increase our patient flow.

[00:29:59] Madison Howe: So what do [00:30:00] you think that looks like? How do you think we could do that? And you and I would then work together to kind of figure out how we could do that. And so in that moment I've, I've transformed you and I've empowered you to, to kind of do this yourself. And honestly, it works great for the leader because it's a form of delegating, right?

[00:30:19] Madison Howe: Like 90 percent of leadership is honestly leading other people to realize that they can do it and that you don't have to do it for them. But you have to be that transformational leader to really help people see their full potential. So yeah, that's kind of the, the theory that's being used. And it's always fun with the more I've learned in this journey to reflect back on leaders in my own life and been like.

[00:30:43] Madison Howe: That's not what you were doing there. You were trying to get me to realize I can do it. So it is kind of fun to reflect back on your own life and think about moments where you had a transactional leader versus a transformational leader and what did that look like? And I'm pretty sure you probably would [00:31:00] favor the transformational leader because they made you feel like you got this, you can do it, you're a part of the team.

[00:31:06] Dakota Sharp: Yeah, that's, that's awesome. I, I had never heard of that theory before, but I think I can definitely think of the leaders in my life where I felt like got the most out of me. And also I grew through that you know, relationship or partnership. And it was definitely that kind of interaction with them.

[00:31:19] Dakota Sharp: I think that's great. I like the example of, you know, a specific problem that the clinic needs to address. And then how does the leader kind of like collaborate basically with the clinic? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What do we call them? You know, employee or, you know,

[00:31:32] Madison Howe: I hate that word. I know. I'm like collaborators.

[00:31:36] Madison Howe: Team play. Teammates, teammate. 

[00:31:38] Dakota Sharp: Yeah. Teammate feels, 

[00:31:38] Madison Howe: yeah, teammate I think feels that's pretty good. Up the most natural. Yeah. But that's one of the coolest parts about the theory and it's kind of the first, there's four pillars. The first pillar is considering each individual in your team. And so, Mm-Hmm.

[00:31:51] Madison Howe: You know, transactional leadership, which again is a much more military model is just, I have this group of puns and I'm going to have them all do the same thing. [00:32:00] But transformational leadership theory saying, okay, I have a team of seven audiologists. I know that this audiologist has a strength in organization.

[00:32:08] Madison Howe: This audiologist has a strength in time management. How can I utilize both of them and their strengths to help our team the most? So it's, and we do this with our patients without even realizing it. You know, every patient that walks in the door, we're like kind of evaluating patient centered care, you know, what are your strengths?

[00:32:25] Madison Howe: What do we need to work on? So you're already doing a lot of this with your patients, but it's just applying it to your team and utilizing their strengths. So I think that that's, that's one of the pieces of leadership that does feel natural to us because we do lead our patients in that way. And we do, we do treat them as individuals.

[00:32:41] Dakota Sharp: That's awesome. Yeah, that's such a great translation of, of what you just described and I, I definitely see how those two things are connected to each other. Have there been any other times clinically where you've had, you've, it seems like it, it happens pretty naturally, but where you felt like, Ooh, like that's this pillar at [00:33:00] work, or I can feel some transformational leadership happening.

[00:33:02] Dakota Sharp: Like any other times like clinically where that's really come up? 

[00:33:05] Madison Howe: So many and I, and I think that's one reason that I'm, I've kind of developed this passion for wanting to, to build leaders in our, our field because you're, you're already a leader and you don't even know it. We learn a lot of leadership strategies disguised as other things when we're talking about dealing with patients specifically.

[00:33:25] Madison Howe: So another one, another pillar of, of transformational leadership theory is inspirational motivation. And I think every person listening that's an audiologist probably is like, I do that every day. How do I inspire my patient to wear their hearing aids more? You know, like, is it a sticker chart? Is it, you know, what, what is it?

[00:33:42] Madison Howe: But we're already doing that. And so, you know, you're, you're a leader in more ways than you know. And then also a huge pillar in this model is intellectual stimulization. So challenging assumptions, taking risks, asking for input. And I think about our patients and [00:34:00] I think about the times that, you know, we're always asking for their input and their feedback, where we're always trying to learn more and challenge, you know, is this best practice?

[00:34:09] Madison Howe: Are we doing the best thing? So you're already doing this. And you just have to apply it to a team. 

[00:34:14] Dakota Sharp: Gotcha. Wow, that's really, so is that the four, is it four pillars? 

[00:34:17] Madison Howe: Four pillars, yes. So individual, individualized, considerization inspirational motivation, ideal influence is the other one, which is basically modeling ethical behavior, which We're all charged with that by our state license or our national organization.

[00:34:34] Madison Howe: So that's not really a pillar. I think of too much as being a difficult transition for, for an audiology leadership role, but and then intellectual stimulization. So, I mean, they're all things we're already doing. It's just taking them and putting them in a different state of mind. 

[00:34:49] Dakota Sharp: Yeah, absolutely. That's like a really, I think a super effective way to help people see the transition into something leadership centric, not being very challenging. It's just taking your clinical skills and applying [00:35:00] them to your interpersonal kind of like work relationships. That's awesome. Were there any big blind spots that you noticed early on that, I mean, that weren't so, Oh, I've already got this down.

[00:35:10] Dakota Sharp: This is something I do in clinic where you're like, Oh, I need to address that like knowledge gap or, you know, whatever that looks like. 

[00:35:18] Madison Howe: I think the biggest ones and, and, you know, this is speaking from having leadership in a hospital based setting or a larger organization setting because I'd imagine some E and T practices are similar.

[00:35:29] Madison Howe: For me, it was sort of the administrative lingo, you know, things like You know, productivity measures and these different types of qualitative data that they pull to, to measure things. And for us, you know, that are on the ground in the clinic, it's like, well, we see the qualitative value. We see the impact, but upper administration up in the top floor of the building isn't on the floor.

[00:35:55] Madison Howe: They're not seeing that. And so how do you communicate? What we do and the impact [00:36:00] we have to these people whose, whose background is numbers and figures. 

[00:36:05] Dakota Sharp: Yeah. 

[00:36:05] Madison Howe: So I think for me, that was probably one of the biggest challenges was learning, you know, how to, how to communicate because the feel goods and the, the positive things about our field.

[00:36:16] Madison Howe: In a way that made sense from a revenue standpoint or a productivity standpoint. So that did take a little bit of a learning curve. Thankfully, I was able to reach out to other departments in the hospital and say, like, what does this look like for you? PT department or speech department. You know, if you're at a place that doesn't have a different department, you could look to for resources.

[00:36:37] Madison Howe: I would just encourage you to have a discussion with administration and say, this is a new world to me. Can we find a common ground that where we can communicate easily about this? But that was probably the biggest blind spot, was speaking some of this lingo that was unfamiliar to me because, you know, we don't care if we're with a patient for two and a half hours.

[00:36:56] Madison Howe: If we're changing their life and they need that time with [00:37:00] us, we're going to give it to them. But for administration, that is money per minute that, you know, is being spent. So that was a big shift for me. And it took some time for me to understand, you know, we have to keep the lights on. We have to keep the air conditioning running.

[00:37:17] Madison Howe: Things do have to happen. Yes, we would give everything away for free if we could, but that's not the case. So that was just personally a hard thing to, to get in my mind, sort of the business aspects of, of leadership. 

[00:37:29] Dakota Sharp: Yeah, that's totally fair. I feel like I hear that actually a lot that I don't know if it's our generation of audiologists or if it's just audiologists in general kind of have that mentality where we're like, we just wish we could give it all away.

[00:37:42] Dakota Sharp: Like we just try not to think of anything financial, but yeah, I can't imagine once you're in that role where somebody's breathing down your neck now that, you know, this metric wasn't, you know, blah, blah, blah. I mean, that's, that's gotta be a whole new, and then you're having to now, you know, not regulate, but you know, be in charge of that information over somebody who [00:38:00] was just your peer, you know, a month ago.

[00:38:01] Dakota Sharp: And I mean, that's, that's gotta be a really, really challenging transition, but it sounds like it was something that you were able to navigate successfully. 

[00:38:08] Madison Howe: Yeah. And I, you know, thankfully in just healthcare in general, I think administration who, you know, administer when I think of administration, I think of more people that have no healthcare background.

[00:38:18] Madison Howe: They have more business. They've never actually seen a patient as a clinician. They understand that most of the leaders that they're working with are clinicians with training. And so they, you know, it's not like they're against working with you on how do we figure this out together. It just was a new thing for me that I hadn't really considered.

[00:38:38] Madison Howe: Because there's kind of these, these buckets, if you will, that you have to serve when you're a leader in an organization like that. So you have the bucket of my employees and through that bucket you're impacting patients. But then you have the bucket of, well, I have to run the clinic. We have to, you know, Keep the lights on and then the bucket of, I have to stay within the organization's [00:39:00] values and mission and meet those needs as well.

[00:39:02] Madison Howe: So it's that balancing. And for me personally, I wanted to pour a lot into this bucket, but the other buckets still have to be maintained too. 

[00:39:11] Dakota Sharp: That's totally fair. But wow, a lot of responsibility and definitely probably a bit of a learning curve there. Okay. So I feel like we've covered the, the pillars of transformational leadership theory.

[00:39:21] Dakota Sharp: Something you mentioned prior to us chatting was another big element, other than the theory behind being a leader itself, is kind of the organization and the planning or the strategic plan as a lot of organizations will have. 

[00:39:34] Dakota Sharp: So as somebody who's never had to write or really consider a strategic plan, I've just had to say I am in agreement with this strategically and what, what was that transition like to being more a part of looking ahead?

[00:39:45] Dakota Sharp: And I think earlier tonight, you even mentioned the vision, right? Of, of, for leadership. Break that down for us. 

[00:39:51] Madison Howe: Yeah. And this, this part for me is fun. So this is where I nerd out a little bit. Because, you know, getting to be a part of vision planning and strategic [00:40:00] planning is quite possibly the coolest part of leadership because that's where you have a huge impact.

[00:40:03] Madison Howe: I mean, this, we're talking about making five year plans that you may have moved on, but they're still being implemented and it could change a trajectory of a, of a practice. So, you know, like I mentioned earlier, I think it's so important to have a vision, whether that is. A personal vision or one that you've developed with your team.

[00:40:22] Madison Howe: But we all need boundaries, right? Like no one wants to go over the rules. It's not necessarily fun, but we need them to operate within them and still have fun. You know, it's like, I know I can't go to Disney world and do something crazy. I know those boundaries, but I'm still going to have so much fun within them.

[00:40:39] Madison Howe: So strategic planning is kind of twofold. It's, it's one looking at your team. And what are your team needs with not only within the team, but what you're doing, how you're serving patients, but then also marrying that with, if you're at a larger organization, their vision for the organization as well.

[00:40:59] Madison Howe: [00:41:00] So oftentimes if you're leading in a larger organization, you're kind of handed a set of. Goals or values or a vision that you then are supposed to execute at your department level. And so, while there's some framework that you have to stay in, it's a really cool opportunity to say, well, what does this mean for us?

[00:41:19] Madison Howe: So like one that I hear frequently in hospitals is we need to improve patient experience. We've probably all heard that at some point, right? And so the hospital might have a definition of overall or the organization overall, what they want that to look like, but then you get to say, okay, what does that mean for us?

[00:41:35] Madison Howe: Like, what does our patient experience look like? You can break it down. There's tools. You can use like flow sheets and diagrams to really break down, you know, what does the experience look like? And then identify areas that we could improve. And this is especially if you're a new leader, a great opportunity to help build rapport with your team, because if you bring them in and say, I need your help on this, [00:42:00] they're instantly going to be like, you know what, she cares or they care about our Our voice and they want, you know, this to be a team effort.

[00:42:08] Madison Howe: And so I think that the strategic plan is, is great to have some vision, have some boundaries, but also use it as a tool to build your team and hear your team's voices. And then the flip side of that is communicating it to upper administration. So that's when you have to apply the words like revenue, productivity, and all that.

[00:42:28] Madison Howe: But you don't always have to communicate that to your team. That's one thing I learned very quickly was like, your team doesn't want to hear about all that. They want to know about the, what are we doing? How are we doing? They want you to take care of the administrative side of things. But pulling them in and using them as a resource can be really valuable too.

[00:42:45] Dakota Sharp: Yeah, that's awesome. And it sounds like it kind of circles back into what you're doing, you know in a transformational leadership, you know method of planning you know having their voices heard and be a part of that too. So so then I guess every [00:43:00] organization you're in That kind of planning element looks a little bit different and it sounds like it's something that's exciting to you and interesting to you.

[00:43:07] Dakota Sharp: But let's say you're in that role and you're like, I'm not an innovator. Like I don't have ideas for five years from now. I mean, what do you say? This is your mentee talking and what do you say to them to help guide them down this new responsibility and planning that they're now a part of? 

[00:43:23] Madison Howe: I think number one is start with the mistakes that you've made.

[00:43:27] Madison Howe: That's where I started is just like think about the times that maybe you made a mistake and whether it was a lack of training or a lack of knowledge, a lack of resources, that that's a great place to start because clearly something could have been better there, whether that was training or support. And so I know that feels weird to think about like strategic planning, but think about.

[00:43:51] Madison Howe: What I've done wrong or difficulties I've encountered. But those are, what's going to lead to the best quality and change moving forward. So, I even [00:44:00] think about when we recorded the last podcast, Dakota, like the whole gender affirming thing came to me because I saw my first patient and did so many things wrong because I didn't have education and training in that.

[00:44:12] Madison Howe: So that's a great example of like, that would have been something I could have said in a strategic planning. Discussion if it was around like diversity and inclusion and, you know, I could have said, Hey, I didn't feel like I had enough training in this because I made all these mistakes. And then you instantly become a resource.

[00:44:31] Madison Howe: You instantly become a knowledge base, even though it was that you, maybe you did something wrong or you didn't feel like you knew enough. So it sounds so simple, but just start with what you you've encountered. Start with you personally. What have you felt that you haven't had enough training in or support in?

[00:44:49] Madison Howe: And, and that, again, that kind of goes back to that authentic self too. 

[00:44:53] Dakota Sharp: Yeah, that's awesome. That's, that's really good advice. You, you really got tons of good advice in this one. I'm, I, this is, [00:45:00] this is really exciting, even to me personally. Has there been any way that being a part of that process in terms of strategic planning has been surprising to you?

[00:45:07] Dakota Sharp: Like, maybe even more specifically to audiology, where it's such a technology based field and it, like, really rapidly changes year after year, it isn't really stagnant at all. Like, what does looking five years ahead even mean? Or you have, do you know what I mean? Like, how has the fact that it's an audiology strategic plan been different than what you've maybe encountered with other people from other professions?

[00:45:31] Madison Howe: Yeah, that is so true because like next year something will come out that will just make you change it all. And you know, part of the process is you try to think through things on the horizon that could disrupt your strategic plan and kind of have safeguards in place for that. I think A strategic plan is probably a lot more broad than people realize.

[00:45:52] Madison Howe: So like a strategic plan, is it going to say, we're going to sell 75 hearing aids in the next five years? It's more, [00:46:00] we're going to increase our sales by 20 percent or we're going to increase, so it is more broad. I think that's shocking to some people. I'm, you know, it, it is really hard. Like I hadn't really thought about that.

[00:46:11] Madison Howe: And so you said, you know, specifically to audiology. But you know, I think it can be what you want it to be and, and, and it can always be reevaluated. So that's, that's one part of strategic planning is constantly evaluating where are we at, do we need to change our plan? And so maybe the surprising thing is that although it comes out and, you know, it's really forced on you as, An employee or voluntold, you're going to partake in this strategic plan and you're going to contribute.

[00:46:38] Madison Howe: It could get changed and so it's not set in stone. I guess that's kind of the surprising thing is it is really more guidelines. 

[00:46:47] Dakota Sharp: Yeah, it feels like such a such a, you know, set in stone term, a strategic plan. Doesn't feel like something we're going to shy away from, you know what I mean? Right. But it sounds like something that has to evolve or it will slowly become an [00:47:00] outdated strategic plan or not so strategic plan anymore if you're not, if you're not keeping up with it.

[00:47:04] Dakota Sharp: Okay. Awesome. So this has been so much amazing information. And. You clearly had to pull a lot of things early on and it sounds like you're really settling into these leadership roles So then what does now that you have more resources available to you? You've mentioned a lot of great organizational Opportunities whether it's a leadership program or a conference But what else does like quality improvement look like as a leader?

[00:47:29] Dakota Sharp: Like how do you continue to get better at leadership over the years once you kind of have these foundations? 

[00:47:35] Madison Howe: Yeah, there's a really beautiful term in Japanese called Kaizen and it's the, the theory of continuous improvement. So always improving. It's a never ending cycle. And there's beautiful things you can Google Kaizen and read all about the history of it.

[00:47:51] Madison Howe: But, but basically it's the theory that we're never done learning and growing, which again, we're already doing as audiologists. We're [00:48:00] voluntold to do continuing education. We're always learning about the new technology that comes out. So I think that feels very natural to us. So, you know, quality improvement with your team is going to look like constantly evaluating these goals that we've set, figuring out You know, are we meeting them?

[00:48:17] Madison Howe: And, and, you know, there's a coaching aspect of maybe you're working with an employee to, to take the next step in their career and you're constantly checking in with them on how's your progress. So there's that part of quality improvement. Then there's also the quality improvement of yourself. And so, this was a part of the journey for me that and so I'm going to talk a little bit more about that.

[00:48:35] Madison Howe: and I'm going to talk a little bit more about how I took some vulnerability. Do you really feel comfortable with evaluating myself and where I was at? And maybe asking others to evaluate where I was. But there's some really great resources. That you can use. There's Clifton strengths is one 16 personalities.

[00:48:51] Madison Howe: Emotional intelligence assessment journaling, even can be helpful and just flipping back and saying like. Oh, man, I was struggling [00:49:00] with this, you know, at the beginning of the year. Now I feel so much more confident in that area, or maybe I still don't feel confident. But you have to get comfortable with exploring yourself and knowing, knowing yourself.

[00:49:12] Madison Howe: And that's a huge part of that continual improvement, quality improvement, because your team can only be as good as you're giving out. 

[00:49:19] Dakota Sharp: Sure. Yeah. Those are all very practical. I appreciate that. They're very practical ways to continue to grow. In that kind of role. And speaking of growing in that kind of role, like, what are, what are your hopes and goals as you continue to kind of, you know, seek out and are thrust into new leadership opportunities?

[00:49:37] Dakota Sharp: Like, what is I don't know. It's, it's, this isn't obviously like a general goal. trajectory for anybody because everybody's journey is going to be a little bit different. But like, what do you, what do you hope to continue to do with these, with these leadership roles as they've come along? 

[00:49:49] Madison Howe: Yeah, I think the one thing I'm loving right now is, is getting to pour into students and helping them be prepared, not just for being a clinical audiologist, but like being prepared [00:50:00] for the workforce and, and.

[00:50:01] Madison Howe: You know, kind of having a vision of like, what do they want their career to look like? Have they ever considered leadership down the road? Because no one talked to me about that in grad school. And you know, just, it just, what could that do if we, if we mentioned those things and put those bugs in their ears I really love getting to serve on organizations and get to network with people across the nation across the world.

[00:50:21] Madison Howe: So I would really love to continue that would love to, to grow in that area. But you know, it's it that's one cool thing about our field. I feel like we say all the time is that. It's multifaceted and you can do so many different things. So right now I love this role, but you know, who knows, maybe, maybe I'll follow Donna Smiley someday and go work at the big house in DC.

[00:50:42] Madison Howe: But you know, I, I really think part of being a leader is, is having that open mind to like anything could come and always being willing to. Consider a growing opportunity no matter how scary it might be. 

[00:50:56] Dakota Sharp: Yeah. Yeah. That's great. That's great advice. Yeah, I'm excited to [00:51:00] see whatever steps you take. I'm sure you're going to do awesome, awesome things with that. I know we're getting close to the end of our time. I wanted to ask, cause I, it kind of set a visual for me a little bit earlier, but when I was talking about, you know, there is most programs don't have a class that is, you know, leadership and audiology.

[00:51:15] Dakota Sharp: Maybe tonight's conversation is a, A thought to many programs to consider this kind of a thing, but if we're thinking about what the syllabus looks like, and You know, I'm the student, I read, I'm the student who actually reads the syllabus. Okay. And as the, as the professor, I'm also the one who's like, did you read the syllabus?

[00:51:30] Dakota Sharp: You know, I go, it's a two way street. What have we, what have we missed that you'd put in the syllabus? We've talked some theory, we've talked some opportunities to grow a timeline, places to begin. What have we missed so far that you feel like you'd want to include in that, in that class? 

[00:51:46] Madison Howe: I think like a huge part of it is just remembering that, and this could apply to all we've talked about but like leadership happens every day.

[00:51:53] Madison Howe: Whether you're in a leadership position formally or you are a clinical audiologist on [00:52:00] a team of six people, you still have leadership opportunities every day. I think a course could include about how we lead our patients, how we lead families that we work with how we lead multidisciplinary teams.

[00:52:13] Madison Howe: I mean, when you're working with an ENT, a speech language pathologist, and a psychologist, and the root of what the patient that you're talking about is hearing loss, you're the leader of that team. Whether you realize it or not. And just how do we, how do we enter into that with the confidence and, and the ability to see what we're doing as leaders.

[00:52:33] Madison Howe: And so I would definitely want that class to include more about the opportunities, even when you're not in a formal leadership position, because You're doing it every day. Every single person listening, I guarantee you in some way is leading somebody maybe without even realizing it. And just the importance that that has and the influence that you can have on others through that.

[00:52:52] Dakota Sharp: Yeah, that's, that's great. I think that's kind of the in a nutshell. Our conversation is anybody even considering a leadership role who's nervous about it needs to just [00:53:00] check in with the fact that they're doing it already. I think that's great. Okay. So I like to usually end an episode with like, almost like an advice kind of a thing.

[00:53:08] Dakota Sharp: I think last time we were talking about like, you know, what advice would you give students or clinicians who are, you know, new to, you know, this topic. So starting with more like a student, especially a very like, maybe even, I've had people reach out that are undergrad students. And I'm like, wait, this.

[00:53:22] Dakota Sharp: Good for you that you're already this far ahead of things. I wasn't even sure it was audiology back then, but good for you. 

[00:53:28] Madison Howe: It was journalism. 

[00:53:29] Dakota Sharp: Yeah. So 

[00:53:32] Madison Howe: Here we are. 

[00:53:33] Dakota Sharp: It's awesome. So what, what do you have advice wise? I mean, I think the most obvious one is like, get involved, right? But is there anything else that you would recommend?

[00:53:41] Dakota Sharp: Like if somebody knew that audiology was for them, they're on that track, that you're like, Oh man, I flipped back around and started working on the MBA, you know what I mean? Should they be into those things earlier? What's the advice? What do you think? 

[00:53:55] Madison Howe: Oh, gosh, I, you know, the first part of me wants to say just let the [00:54:00] journey happen because I would have never ever been right here.

[00:54:04] Madison Howe: I was a girl who growing up was too shy to answer the door or call the pizza delivery guy. Like, I think I was shy until the second year I started working. So part of it's just the journey. And like, like I mentioned earlier, like learning from your mistakes, being okay to talk about them let the journey happen and, you know, take advantage of every opportunity and never shy away from something as being an opportunity.

[00:54:29] Madison Howe: I think that's probably the biggest advice is like, it might seem small, but it might blossom into something really, really cool and really. Life changing or career changing. So, you know, take every opportunity. I think the other thing is be adaptable and, you know, I know it's cliche with COVID, but like, we, we've learned more than ever that you have to adapt and maybe your career takes a shift and it doesn't look like what you thought it would or maybe you're in a season where you're not loving it as much as you thought you would.

[00:54:59] Madison Howe: But [00:55:00] there's something to be learned there. And I promise you, especially if you're thinking leadership down the road, I think I talk more about the difficult times or the times I felt like I was doing something wrong more than I talk about the times I was doing something right. Or the times that things were really, really good.

[00:55:17] Madison Howe: So even if life is a little hard right now, or your career isn't exactly where you want it to be, that's going to be a story for you to use down the road to mentor someone else or to influence someone else. 

[00:55:29] Dakota Sharp: Yeah, that's, that's really good advice. And I appreciate that it doesn't have to be as specific as like, join, you know, take this class or do this thing.

[00:55:36] Dakota Sharp: It's like, just enjoy the ride and learn things now because those are what, that's, what's going to set you up. And I do think it agrees with the thesis of everything you've said so far that it doesn't take any of these extra things to be in that leadership role. It's recognizing what you've learned from all of these past experiences and applying them to that.

[00:55:51] Dakota Sharp: And you can figure out the theory later, right? That's awesome. What about for somebody who's a little bit more seasoned and who's, you know, even older than us [00:56:00] maybe and is like kind of been in their clinical role for a long time. They've never actively pursued anything leadership wise. They are at a point where they're like, maybe I'm just not, you know, cut out for any kind of leadership thing.

[00:56:10] Dakota Sharp: Cause I've been, you know, I've just been in this role for so long. What would you say to someone in that position? 

[00:56:15] Madison Howe: Find a mentor first of all, because talking out loud about things with someone else makes you realize like, I did do that. I do know how to do this. That's cool. Like mentored 99 percent of the time are just sitting there going, huh.

[00:56:28] Madison Howe: Yeah, you're right. You know, because you're just it comes out to find a mentor. Number one Number two, join a committee because there are people on those committees that have some natural ability to see you, see your talents and guide you into the next step. So whether it's a state organization, a national organization, whether it's a committee to plan an event at your organization, just join a committee, join people, see other people, see what you bring to the table and how you [00:57:00] can complement that that committee.

[00:57:02] Madison Howe: And I really think that that will just be that spark that you need to realize that you can do this. And it's not, it's not that hard. 

[00:57:10] Dakota Sharp: I think you've really pointed out how a big part of being a leader is recognizing your own, you know, strengths and experiences. And yeah, that makes total sense is once you're involved and are assigned a responsibility, you can realize like, Oh, I am good at this thing.

[00:57:25] Dakota Sharp: Or I'm not so good at that thing. And maybe I need to work on that thing. I think that's really good. One thing that that came to mind too is For someone in that kind of role is like, I won't have the time to do that kind of thing. And one thing I would just say to that is, as somebody who dove into opportunities like this is in two different workplaces now, they are both very supportive of this kind of thing, because most people, the people who are approving it, guess what?

[00:57:48] Dakota Sharp: Our leaders who also had to take that plunge at some point too. So they're going to be pretty understanding and honestly, probably want you to participate in that way. Hopefully to, you know, they can. [00:58:00] Delegate some responsibility to you down the line. I don't know what you think about. 

[00:58:03] Madison Howe: Yeah. No, absolutely. And that's so true. Like, that's one thing we didn't really touch on, but like, remember that the, the people that you're following behind as a leader or that you're working with as a leader are audiologists at trade. And like, I think one thing that. Is just so cool. It's like we all talk about how similar we are in audiology, you know, all mostly type a very, you know, similar in that way.

[00:58:25] Madison Howe: And so remember like this is a community of like minded people and we're really lucky In that sense to be in a field that that you're gonna find people that have been exactly where you are And want to help you 

[00:58:38] Dakota Sharp: awesome Well, what a great way to put a button on an awesome conversation. I'm so glad you were able to join me again for a really different topic, but a really another really great discussion.

[00:58:48] Dakota Sharp: If people wanted to reach out to you, would that be okay? And what would be the best way to do it? 

[00:58:53] Madison Howe: Yeah. So my email address is [00:59:00] mhowe@UAMS.Edu. Feel free to email me. I'd be happy to, to connect you with a mentor or give you advice. I love quotes. I will send you all the quotes in the world to give you inspiration.

[00:59:14] Madison Howe: But reach out, like if this is even just something that in the back of your mind you're toying with at any level the best thing you can do is reach out to somebody and say, I'm interested and just take that step. And I promise you, it flows from there. 

[00:59:26] Dakota Sharp: Awesome. And where are you going to be this year?

[00:59:28] Dakota Sharp: I know Syntac's got some stuff coming up. Oh, yeah. Yes. ASHA's got some stuff coming up. Anything that you want to tell people to attend or sign up for? 

[00:59:34] Madison Howe: All the things. So, I will be at Syntac in Denver in November. If you will be there, please come say hi and talk to me. Even if you're not into leadership, I promise, we can still hang out.

[00:59:45] Madison Howe: I will also be at ASHA in Seattle in December. So, I would love to talk with anybody. I will be, we will have a booth for For syntax at ASHA. So you can probably find me at that booth at some point too. But I would love to meet up, love to have a conversation with you. And [01:00:00] you know, we're, we're growing community and leaders in our field are, are always needed.

[01:00:05] Madison Howe: And I promise you, you have strengths and talents that can contribute to our field in a big way. 

[01:00:10] Dakota Sharp: Awesome. Well, thanks again so much, Madison, for joining me and I look forward to, at some point down the road, definitely having you back. 

[01:00:17] Madison Howe: Yeah. Well, thanks so much Dakota. This was really fun.

[01:00:19] Dakota Sharp: And that's all for today. Thank you so much for listening, subscribing, and rating. This podcast is part of a course offered for continuing education through Speech Therapy PD. Check out the website if you'd like to learn more about the CEU opportunities available for this episode, as well as archived episodes.

[01:00:37] Dakota Sharp: Just head to speechtherapypd. com slash ear. That's speechtherapypd. com slash e a r.

[01:00:53] Dakota Sharp: Do you enjoy listening to On The Ear, but wish you could earn ASHA CEUs for it? Uh, start today! [01:01:00] SpeechTherapyPD. com has over 175 hours of audio courses on demand, with an average of 19 new audio courses released each month. And here's the best part, each episode earns you ASHA Continuing Ed credits! Oh, no wait, this is the best part.

[01:01:13] Dakota Sharp: As a listener of On The Ear, you can receive 20 off an annual subscription when you use code ear21. Just head to SpeechTherapyPD. com to sign up. And use code EAR21, E A R 2 1, for 20 off your annual subscription.