David Egts: Gunnar, what's new? Gunnar Hellekson: I'm a Fire breathing. David Egts: Fire breather. Yeah. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: I don't know if you're into, but that's what we call ourselves Imagine Dragon fans were firebreathers, so we call it. David Egts: All right,… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. I wasn't. David Egts: all right. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: an imagining dragons fan, I wasn't a firebreather Until this last Friday night. Where I took my darling wife,… David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: and my adorable son, and as a special treat for him, we went and drove out to Houston. And enjoyed. Imagine dragons in concert. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: And you know how this is, imagine dragons. dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens, and dozens of times and the car, All the way to and… David Egts: Uh-huh. Gunnar Hellekson: from school we Imagine Dragons Dave because it's a big feeling. That's a big emotions. Kind of easily read, appeals to our child like mines. and so I was thinking, Okay, I will enjoy this concert on some level, maybe not my first choice but I know I'm gonna get and at some point during the concert which took place in the beautiful Cynthia Woods Mitchell Pavilion woodlands there these great Outdoor amphitheat Great grade sales hanging over the thing. It was great and it was right about the time after the second set of confetti cannons went off. Gunnar Hellekson: The third immersive audio visual experience, and the dozen beach balls that were just that descended on the crowd. I'd say concert was like being shot out of a canon and at some point Soren sat down. He was tired, he had enough. My wife and… David Egts: Wow. Gunnar Hellekson: I still standing up pumping fists clapping screaming for more. It was a cathartic experience, it was spectacular. So, even… David Egts: That's great, that's great. I Gunnar Hellekson: I was gonna say, even if you were lukewarm on, imagine dragons, go see them live and it is a fantastic One of the best live experiences I've had in a long time. David Egts: Yeah, and I'm probably a very sheltered person. I don't know if I've ever heard in the Imagine Dragons song so I thought the check it out. But what would you say that they do the showmanship to make up for? a lack of musicianship, or is it the combination of both the musicianship and The showmanship. Gunnar Hellekson: Fair question. I do not have the skills to evaluate their musicianship or even to distinguish between their showmanship and their musicianship, but I did see them. They did that thing where members of the band start playing different kinds of instruments, right? There's the drummer's drumming and then a second drum set emerges from the floor and the lead singer gets up and does a drum, duet with the other guy. So they appeared to know what they were doing. If that's… David Egts: That's cool. Gunnar Hellekson: what you mean. David Egts: Yeah. No,… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, it was cool. Yeah. David Egts: that's good. Yeah kisses a good example of Great showmanship. Gunnar Hellekson: Mm- Right. David Egts: And okay musicians but it's like they know how to put on a great show and… Gunnar Hellekson: Right. David Egts: it's just really really good where there are other bands. It's combination of both and… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: everything. and then there are other bands that are just like great musicians and they have terrible stage presence. It's just Kills me right? Gunnar Hellekson: Yes. David Egts: It hurts to watch, right? Gunnar Hellekson: Yes. David Egts: But yeah, whenever you get both, that's always the best. Gunnar Hellekson: And I think the litmus test was, There's another great thing. The crowd for this show was Four year olds and 84 year olds, right? Huge swath and… David Egts: Wow. Gunnar Hellekson: The kids were awake and pumped and rocking out right alongside the 84 year, olds all the way Up until the end. So they had us in the palm of their proverbial hands. David Egts: Yeah. Yeah. David Egts: Wow, nice. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. It's great. Yeah. David Egts: Yeah, that's great. Yeah. Usually it's like I'm going to the concerts that are like all the old people are there and a lot of times, I'm the youngest one there but that's and that's the other part too. Is like when you could bring your child and share that and have that generational, this is… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, that's right. David Egts: what I grew up listening to or whatever and it's very memorable. Gunnar Hellekson: That's right. This is what I was hoping for when I dragged in or not drag him when I took him to the Andrew Bird Show. David Egts: Mm-hmm Gunnar Hellekson: And I guess we'll put it that way different vibe on that shot. So yeah. that's what. 00:05:00 David Egts: So I've been reading a lot of books lately and… Gunnar Hellekson: That's what I was into this weekend. How about you? David Egts: a couple of them that are noteworthy. there's A book that I read that it was okay but it mentioned this other book a lot. So I read that other book and it's called Psychological Warfare by Paul Mae Lineberger. Yeah, did you ever hear of that? Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. Gunnar Hellekson: I think maybe from you you might have mentioned that… David Egts: Yeah, so it was written I think in 1946 or… Gunnar Hellekson: but I don't know much about it. David Egts: something like that and then, published shortly after World War Two and then there was revised edition in the 50s and so basically the second edition is basically in an addendum to the first edition. So it's like he left the first part pretty much intact. It was pretty wild where he had all these examples of how to do psychological warfare, How to do it wrong? you want to do psychological warfare when friends or create doubt and all that? you don't want to do it to just get the David Egts: Enemy and get them angry and dig in even more. And so he provided all these different kinds of examples and they're really great. And they're even physical examples of what they had where they had how You do leaflets, and they drop leaflets out of an airplane. Yeah I was thought it would be just some airplane flying over and… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: then people just stuck in a pallet of leaf leaflets, right? They actually have leaflet bombs that they use and… Gunnar Hellekson: All right. David Egts: that were modified I think it was by gas warfare bombs from World War One or whatever, they were modified and you take the poison gas out. You put leaflets in And there you have it. And so, that they had David Egts: And they even had leaflet grenades that you could, I guess put at the end of your rifle and then, you would have a green at the end of the rifle, but it would shoot leaflets. And then they had another one that was like, they didn't have pictures of it, but it was a handheld leaflet bomb. That, imagine a hand grenade of leaf and a leaflets that you just grow, right? and towards the end of the book, it's like, probably this whole radio thing is gonna take off and television and, maybe that's a good way to manipulate people and it's like, dude, you don't even know, and so he went into that and then that first half of the book was great and then the addendum it was very much like David Egts: imagine it's written in the middle of the 50s of the Cold War of it wasn't decided yet whether the Soviet Union would try him for not and we're sort of in a standpoint we're in the middle of this, And So that was pretty wild too. In terms of, how he went through all that. so that book was great. And then, there was one of my favorite authors any Jacobson. She wrote nuclear war a scenario and imagine it just being like, Here's how from the beginning of the book to the end of the book. It's like, here's how a nuclear war plays out. David Egts: And it's like, they got this phone call, There's this mysterious lunch from North Korea. What do they do? Do you evacuate the President? And imagine just like it an entire book of that and then the retaliation and then now Russia gets involved and everything so it's like, holy crap, it's amazing. How It makes you realize how fragile things are and how things can Really bad really quickly. And it's like, you got Star Wars and you can shoot everything down. it's not exactly right? and so it's just a fascinating book. Gunnar Hellekson: That's right. Gunnar Hellekson: That sounds great. I got a huge fan of apocalypse literature. David Egts: Yeah, and it was just, you… Gunnar Hellekson: So this sounds right on my alley. David Egts: think of it as a live telling of a story of this happened and this happened and the vice president's being flown out on a helicopter or whatever. and Gunnar Hellekson: Right. David Egts: It was just wild. 00:10:00 Gunnar Hellekson: So it's like a book version of the day after,… David Egts: Yeah but it was more of a reporting as opposed to the storytelling… Gunnar Hellekson: is that fair? David Egts: if that makes sense. so it's like this happened then that happened and… Gunnar Hellekson: Okay, sure. David Egts: so it wasn't like there's a plot or… Gunnar Hellekson: It does. David Egts: a story arc or subplots or anything it's just sort of like We're gonna walk through this entire scenario of Here's one of many ways, the world can end and it's like holy cow. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: It was just really heavy. Gunnar Hellekson: It reminds me of another book called War By Whitley. David Egts: All right. Gunnar Hellekson: Strieber of Communion fame. and James connectca from some other fame. I'm not sure what he's from but the two of them with this book together and it's a telling of it's a day after kind of an exactly… David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: what you're talking about, but it's all old in the form of Journalist interviews and primary records,… David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: five years after it happened. Gunnar Hellekson: So it's like reading through a reporters notebook and so you just get snippets and vignettes of different things that happened and them trying to travel from the East Coast to the west coast of the country to see how it changed and Anyway, it's fascinating. David Egts: Yeah. Yeah it reminds me it sounds like World War Z as well. Gunnar Hellekson: It's fascinating war day. David Egts: It was a reporting of all these different chapters of People going through a zombie apocalypse,… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: so yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, same mechanics. David Egts: Interesting. Yeah. And… Gunnar Hellekson: Same can see, exactly. David Egts: what you got your rally out. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah, we get the real AI. So, we kind… David Egts: Mmm. Gunnar Hellekson: We kind of announced this at Summit last year, but this is A version of real. Optimized to workloads. Specifically the Granite model. That IBM open sourced back in March or May. And so it's that plus the instruct lab which allows you to train a model efficiently. Using just a question and answer. And so real AI, this is kind of a building block you run, rei on one node with GPUs on it and… David Egts: Mmm. Gunnar Hellekson: stuff. And then that gets orchestrated by the Openshift AI tool that we got. So … David Egts: That's cool. That's Cool. Gunnar Hellekson: so yeah, really? It's exciting. David Egts: Yeah, There's a lot of hard work to pull off. Gunnar Hellekson: Congratulations to the O'Reilly team. David Egts: . Gunnar Hellekson: Yes, indeed,… David Egts: Yeah. yeah,… Gunnar Hellekson: It was so, Cool open source AI. David Egts: It's a thing. Yeah. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: It's coming, it's happening. David Egts: So this week we're gonna talk about a couple things. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: We're going to talk about electricity Identity theft and coaching. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: Yeah. yeah, so for people to get Links to some get,… Gunnar Hellekson: All right. David Egts: to catch up on their psychological warfare or to pull down some albums of imagine dragons, where they need to go. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, they should get to Dgshow.org that's d as in Dave G as in Gunnar Show.org. David Egts: All right. and then cutting room floor. we have some homework for Eric Morrissey to try this out for us. So there is a traffic cam photo booth that I sent you a link to. So do you want to describe it? Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. It's a Way of easel, help me out. It's a way of easily tapping into public webcam feeds, but it's kind of constructed in a way that encourages you to go stand in one of these security cameras. Gunnar Hellekson: So that you can kind of feature yourself in it. David Egts: Yeah, yeah. it's like So,… Gunnar Hellekson: I guess is that I feel like I'm not doing a good job. David Egts: you said, there's these traffic cams are all over start off in New York City, but I checked today, there they are expanding. There are cameras for Minnesota, Georgia, and Maryland now all over the place, so you can go check it out. But in New York City, Eric, could bring up the map of the five boroughs and then identify a camera of his choice and then you click on that camera and it would show you the latest snapshot frame of that camera. And then, what you want to do is you want to go to where that camera feed is in the middle of a highway or something stand in the middle of the highway. 00:15:00 David Egts: Be careful out there and press the button to reload that frame again and then you can get yourself a free Selfie of you standing in the middle of the highway on a public traffic cam. Gunnar Hellekson: Yes, that's right. Yeah, traffic and… David Egts: Yeah. Exactly exactly. Gunnar Hellekson: photo booth. David Egts: So people could check that out. All right let's talk a little bit about theft have you been on both sides of the airbnb equation? As is a renter and also a host and a renter Gunnar Hellekson: I've been on both ends of that market. Yeah. David Egts: So I've done neither as somebody that has more merit points. I know what to do with. I haven't had the opportunity yet so that there was this lady. she's an airbnb host, she had some guests stay for three weeks or They left the place perfectly clean. They gave it a five-star review. And then a couple weeks later the host she got a $1,500 electric bill, Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. David Egts: so it winds up that she has her security cameras and then went back through playing back the tape and she had, I guess video footage of The renters carrying in computer equipment to, I guess, do some cryptocurrency mining in there. And They also built some sort of makeshift ev charger out of David Egts: Yeah, and $1500 later, she is updated her listing to say no crypto mining and no EV charging in her listing. Gunnar Hellekson: That's clever. David Egts: And I guess they went there. I forget if she went back and got her money back or whatever from, this a damage sort of thing from the renters, or whatever. But still it's I guess even for them it was cheaper to do the rental than it would be to pay for the electricity. So they received more than the renters they said they made over a hundred thousand dollars, Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: mine in cryptocurrency at that stage. So even if they were forced to pay the fifteen hundred dollar bill, they came out ahead Gunnar Hellekson: But it does make the question of if that's the case. Why not? Just use your own electricity. If you can make a hundred thousand dollars in three weeks, David Egts: Yeah, if you're living the digital nomad lifestyle, and you could live anywhere,… Gunnar Hellekson: That's right. David Egts: I guess, right? Maybe,… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, you're right. David Egts: maybe that was their thing, right? Gunnar Hellekson: yeah, yeah, the roaming around in there electric In their electric hobo van. And any electricity going towards their crypto mining is electricity,… David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: not going into the battery, And they're not bad life. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, I guess. That's right. Yeah, that's hilarious. that's, David Egts: Yeah, so it's I'm waiting for that to be part of the terms of for hotels too, That it's like you'll see There are plenty of times as a nerd doing trade shows and… Gunnar Hellekson: Right. David Egts: I would have a hurtful of computer equipment that I would be wheeling up to the room but I'm sure. Now, people are going to give me an extra scrutiny and tell me them not allowed to do any mining during my stay. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah that's right that's right. I don't know credit to these renters I guess they realize that her margin was their opportunity, right? Yeah. David Egts: And speaking of cameras, all over the place, there is an app software package you could add called Deep Live Cam that you can add. Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. David Egts: And you've done this before, where you could have, these pseudo virtual cameras that you have for your video, conferencing that. it was a snap chat had one like snapcam or something. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, and even like Apple FaceTime, you can have a cartoonish, bunny or a crocodile or something like that, fun stuff. Yeah. 00:20:00 David Egts: Yeah, yeah. imagine this is a virtual camera that you install in the operating system, so it will use the real camera but also apply some AI magic to it. That can deep fake. Somebody else's face onto your face and then pump that into your video, calling tool of choice like zoom or Google meet or whatever you like. Gunnar Hellekson: I see. Okay, but it doesn't have to be my face, does it? David Egts: No, no. It could be anybody's face that you want and so you know that if you check out the show notes, there are a couple videos was what it was videos of Elon Musk. JD Vance. Of George Clooney and a couple other people and it was pretty remarkable, It's just from a webcam standpoint. I could imagine some people falling for it. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah I can too Do you remember? I think it was an nvidia keynote. I want to say a year or two ago where they kind of demo this thing and it was a little bit janky but you could kind of see where it was going and you're like, this is actually gonna be a big deal in the future, And you watch this video, which is by the way using open source software as far as. I mean, it's software that's and… David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: the distance, we have traveled in the technology from that nvidia keynote to now where any ding dong with a laptop or I guess anything done with a GPU can generate a Persuasive. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: George Clooney or GD Vance. Avatar is wild wild. David Egts: and so, you can imagine years ago how it's like these people are getting scammed and the odds of somebody calling and saying that they do a deep fake of somebody's voice and saying that you got a wire all these apple gift cards or whatever because I'm in trouble and I can imagine people falling for this where you could have the scammers Do the face swapping of a relative and… Gunnar Hellekson: Sure. David Egts: yeah and really take advantage of people and that's a market opportunity there. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah. Completely true. Yeah. David Egts: Could sit in their airbnb. You could do your video call scamming all in one shot I guess. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, yeah, that's right. Synergies. David Egts: Yeah and so the other way that I think of it though, too, is a lot of that capability is sort of. Even like you said, it's built into Google meet and all the other ones where you could have an avatar. And have you ever done on purpose, an avatar. Inside of Google meet. Instead of leaving your camera off, if you didn't feel like your camera ready, it's like I'll just use a avatar instead. Gunnar Hellekson: No. No. it's one of those things where you do it to surprise somebody joining the meeting and then you turn it off after they laugh, right? That's about as far as I got. Yeah. David Egts: and so you haven't done it and you haven't for an extended period of time and has anybody else ever been on a call and done that? Gunnar Hellekson: No, that would be. That if somebody did that for an entire meeting, I'd be like, Hey, is everything okay at home? that's a,… David Egts: Yeah. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: that's strange, right? David Egts: But to me, it's like, what's the difference between that and having your camera off? And it's like, I don't feel well or Arrow but I'm still here. I can react and everything. People are getting my reactions, but they don't see me. but I think you said, we sort of draw that line that's like, okay, just leave your camera off. Gunnar Hellekson: Right. Yeah yeah. That's right. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: That's and also I mean it is disruptive right? You're trying to have a serious meaning about some serious matters. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: for example discussing The. Tremendously large electric bill that you just got in your and,… David Egts: Right. Gunnar Hellekson: talking to a cartoon bunny about it. Kind of takes. Some of the that's not the Tony you want to set in a meeting like that. Yeah. David Egts: Right, right. yeah. Or you're not projecting that same level of gravitas you would like if you're that bunny. So what if though? with your team meetings. You got everybody to install the deep live cam and then you had Picked somebody else on the team to deep fake themselves and then you have the meeting. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. with wait a minute. That feels like it could be useful, right? 00:25:00 Gunnar Hellekson: Let me think about this for a second, So that would be a good exercise in. Gunnar Hellekson: Removing bias during a brainstorming session. David Egts: Or if everybody was you,… David Egts: During the brainstorming. Gunnar Hellekson: Or if I had a qbr where, as a joke I went into this qbr for my business and everyone on the call was dressed as me. David Egts: Okay, how did they specifically pull that off? Gunnar Hellekson: They took somebody figured out… David Egts: Okay. okay. Gunnar Hellekson: how to take a screen capture of my background And then, I wear basically the same thing every day,… David Egts: Yeah, like Zuckerberg. Gunnar Hellekson: like a blue shirt and a sweater and the Classes? Yeah, it's like Right. And so they'll showed up in my costume. With my glasses with my background and… David Egts: Did it get rid of the bias? Gunnar Hellekson: man, It was funny. It was a good time. Yeah. Everyone agreed with me. David Egts: Yeah, true Okay. Yeah. So something for us to think about Mix it up a little with the changing faces. all right, and speaking of books, there's a book that. Gunnar Hellekson: That's great. David Egts: I I really enjoyed. It's called the Coaching Habit and so It's Salesforce. Gunnar Hellekson: Mm-hmm David Egts: They have a class on the book and I got to attend the class, too. And I thought the class was great and everything. but the interesting thing about the book is that it goes into what's the difference between coaching and mentoring? David Egts: And the premise of the book is that when you're like mentoring and you're that giving advice is a bad thing. And that you shouldn't give advice. and at first, I'm like, This is a terrible book at that, it's like, I love I love to help people, and, I let me give you a shortcut and don't make the same mistakes I made. Let me give you the cheat codes to figure this out, right? and as I got into the book, I appreciate where they came from, because they said that When you're giving advice. People are less likely to take the advice. If you're giving it as opposed to letting them come to that conclusion themselves. Gunnar Hellekson: Right, right? This is a classic sales thing, right? convince them that it's their idea. David Egts: And The other thing that they said was that if you're giving advice, you're setting up a power dynamic, that's unhealthy. And that I know everything and… Gunnar Hellekson: yeah. David Egts: you don't know the answers, And so by you being the person with all the advice, it's like you're setting up this power of dynamic that it's like everything and the other person doesn't know everything. And so that is unhealthy as well and… Gunnar Hellekson: Right. David Egts: what will end up happening? Is it leads to David Egts: Learned helplessness. And that it's like, I'm not gonna know the answer, I'll just ask Dave, because he always has the right answer. Why should I even bother thinking about it and then that leads to more work for you to, solve their problems and on top of your own problems? Gunnar Hellekson: Right. Okay,… David Egts: Yeah. Yeah. And so like they and… Gunnar Hellekson: I like this. David Egts: and there's seven questions that they went through and you wouldn't have to go through all of them but it was really interesting how if you go through a coaching session. Based on these seven questions, you could actually do an entire coaching session and not provide any advice at all. All you're doing is just asking questions. David Egts: Yeah. so it's like,… Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. David Egts: you start off and it's like He calls The kickstart question and you say, So what's on your mind and then you just sit back and you let that person go right? And just let them talk about whatever's on their mind and I was like, I went out to lunch with my daughter Lauren a couple weeks ago so we sit down at the table and then I'm so Lauren what's on your mind? And then it's bam a half hour later, she finished what was on her mind? It was amazing. like that. It's just that one question instead of How is your day? So who's blind? it's like, so what's been on your mind lately? 00:30:00 Gunnar Hellekson: Right. David Egts: And you just let them just totally these are the things that are in front of mind with you instead of Hey, I learned this cool thing. Let me force it on you, right. David Egts: So, it's like you do that. And then,… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah. David Egts: Then he has the next question is the odd question, and else? so it's like what's on your mind and I have this problem and what else? and what else is there? And so eventually you don't want to do that forever as a loop. But you want to a lot of times what's on your mind? May not be the entire story or the entire thought and so by asking and what else you may be uncovering,… Gunnar Hellekson: Right. David Egts: a list of five things? And the fourth one is the most important. Right. David Egts: And then it's like, Okay, so… Gunnar Hellekson: Right. Yeah. David Egts: then there's a focus question. So, okay, what's the real challenge here for you? So of all these five things that you talked about what is there a pattern of all these challenges that you have And then they come up with the answer and then you could also go back into and what else is a real challenge or whatever. and then there's the foundation questions,… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: what do you want? and so you're asking them. It's like okay, you have all these problems, you identified. This one problem, What is the outcome? You're striving for here, And then there's the lazy question where it's like, Okay, how can I help? and so it's not like, so here's your opportunity to invite them. David Egts: Them to invite you to give them advice, So here's the opportunity, If they want advice, you can give it to him, but you got to let them invite you to do it first. And a lot of times it's and you know what it's like too. It's like a lot of times people just want to vent Or, they don't want answers, they just want to get something off their chest. so, so instead you forcing advice on somebody they could be like, No, I just wanted to that, right? And then there's the strategic question of … Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: Okay, of all these things, if you're saying yes to this, what are you saying? No And it could be a good or bad thing, It's like if I'm saying, Yes, to this particular thing. it's like I'm saying no to all these are the bad things or I'm saying no to all these other potential good things you could be doing. David Egts: And then at the very end and… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: it's funny. It's like Carolyn Ford if she's listening I would have chats with her in the call with her and other people of So what we talked about today, what was the most useful thing that we talked about? so, Yeah. it's for everybody,… Gunnar Hellekson: And that one's for you. David Egts: Because it's sort of like okay what? it's subliminally getting them to recognize it, the conversation was valuable and then you're also encouraging them to do the homework that you come up with. Gunnar Hellekson: Got it. David Egts: so it's like instead of me giving all this advice and then they don't do any of the advice. Here's like, man, this whole thing is important. I got to get right on this and I guess you're working on this. so, it's like I've found that to be really helpful and then since I thought about it, I was like, Okay, this is something I could turn into an AI and so I was playing with the gems inside a Gemini. And so a jam is think of it as a bot that you can create and so I created a bot. That would basically be my coach and it would ask me what's on your mind and it would go through the questions with me. And it's actually pretty fantastic. It's therapy bot that I created right and so that was awesome. And then for me, from a coaching standpoint, I wanted to take it the other way. David Egts: Where do you know what Gemini live is? Yeah. So Gemini live currently. Gunnar Hellekson: No, but it's not. David Egts: If you're paying up for Gemini, On the personal plan there and you're using Android and you're using the app. There's a button where you could have a live conversation with Gemini and so it's not and so you could interrupt it and it's a very natural conversation. David Egts: so I was like, Okay Gemini, it's like I want you to play the role of somebody needing career advice and I want to coach you And so I was using that to practice my coaching skills using the methodology. Yeah. And so the funny thing is that as we're going through the,… 00:35:00 Gunnar Hellekson: Okay, right. David Egts: the coaching thing with live Gemini was and so what I'm like, so what else is on your mind and what else? So it's a real challenge here for you. And then we get down to the Okay how can I help? and then Gemini was like, I really don't feel uncomfortable talking about that. And I'm like Why? And then she was like, it's because you're an artificial intelligence, I don't feel comfortable talking to a chatbot David Egts: So it was convinced that I'm a chatbot and now I'm having an argument with it saying that. No, I'm a real person. And so I'm like, failing the touring test with Gemini and so that it was hilarious. How it was the weirdest feeling in the world of it's not feeling real, I see dead people sort of thing, and it's So those pretty well. Gunnar Hellekson: Wow, that is A super cool. David Egts: Yeah. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: and I like that you apply to talking to your daughter, right? Gunnar Hellekson: That's great. I got it. it seems incredibly helpful So do you have a mnemonic for remembering what the sequence of questions is? David Egts: No that's a good idea. I actually from the class, they have a cheat sheet of the seven things and so I have that on my desk as I do video calls and stuff. So as a reminder to walk through them and… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: and also in the show notes, I put a summary of the coaching habit in there too, which is a good refresher as well. That I actually pumped into the prompt for the Gemini gem to create it. So Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, you do it enough times. You sort of get used to it and I gave a car,… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: I gave a copy of the book to my wife and she read it. And then it's like, I come down after work and sit on the couch, she sits next to me and she's like, So, what's on your mind? And I'm like, I'm not falling for that trick, it's a trap. So, Gunnar Hellekson: I love it, that's great. Yeah. David Egts: Yeah. And then he has a sequel to the book called The Advice Trap that this author Michael Bengay standard. And so it's like when we were going to Hershey Pennsylvania, I was listening to the audiobook in the car, with the family and everything and listening to the advice trap. And so what was interesting is that we're sitting here, driving on the Pennsylvania Turnpike and then they're like it's instead of hearing me drone on for six hours about this book. I'm gonna interview people, to mix it up a little bit. And so it's like he finishes a chapter, it's like, Okay, let's close it out with. Let me interview Phasee. Fatahi and,… Gunnar Hellekson: David Egts: and I'm like, David Egts: Yes, yes. And I'm like, No, no, it's not him. And it was from our s, I a days, right? And yeah,… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, right. David Egts: CEO of current technology and he was being interviewed and in the car. So that was so awesome. Gunnar Hellekson: that's great. good for Facey. That's a wonderful. David Egts: And he is and it's such a font of wisdom and it was a perfect complement for the book as well in terms of the perfect coach with the wisdom that he has and his techniques in terms of Bring the best out in people is such a great parent. Gunnar Hellekson: Yes, yes. that's great, wonderful, that's wonderful. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: I'm I'm gonna use this on my wife uses on my kid. Gunnar Hellekson: He's at work. David Egts: He's at work. Use it on your boss. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, use it on my boss. David Egts: Yeah. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: It's great. David Egts: What was mostly useful for you Gunnar? Gunnar Hellekson: I think so, what I like about this is It helps create an open and unstructured conversation, but but with enough structure and the right kinds of prompts that It gives you a way to help, someone think their own way through the problem, Which is kind of a statement about you,… 00:40:00 David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: what you started with. But I can imagine these are the right set of questions to create clarity for them, most importantly, and to a lesser extent for you on what we're actually talking about because I suspect that what's on your mind and Gunnar Hellekson: By the time you get to kind of how can I help or even if you're saying you say If you're saying yes to this. What are you saying? No By the time you get to those later questions, you're probably talking about something very different and actually probably something much more important. David Egts: Yes. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. That's what I like about. David Egts: And what else? Gunnar Hellekson: I see your tricks. I see your chairs. David Egts: Uh-huh. Yeah, not people won't be able to unsee this after they listen this episode. Gunnar Hellekson: It's Nice. Thanks. David Egts: Gunnar if people say yes to listening to this episode, what should they be saying? No to Gunnar Hellekson: they should be saying no to airbnbs without stipulations about electricity use. David Egts: Yeah, true. Yeah. You want to have the mineral rights for the airbnb? Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah. David Egts: Yeah. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: That's great. Cool. David Egts: All right, if so for Eric to get that link so he can send us some self-cams southeast from his traffic Cam photo booth… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. He definitely should go to org that's d and… David Egts: where it is. Eric need to go Gunnar Hellekson: Dave G as in Gunnar Show.org and everyone else I should also go to Dgshow.org and pay a visit and let us know what was most useful for you. David Egts: Yes, I would love to hear that. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Great. David Egts: Alright Gunnar. thanks and thanks. Everybody for listening. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, thanks Dave. Thanks everyone. This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. 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