David Egts: What's going on Gunnar? Gunnar Hellekson: So many things so notably. I was able to see the magnetic fields live and in concert, David Egts: I thought you were gonna talk about the Aurora Borealis. Gunnar Hellekson: No, unfortunately we don't get much of that here, this close to the equator, but we do get the scintillating effects of Mr. Stephen Merritt and his band of musicians, the magnetic fields who featured prominently in my life in the 90s and… David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: I saw their farewell so they're famous for an album called 69 Love Songs. And it's,… David Egts: Gunnar Hellekson: in fact 69 love songs, each of, which is in a different kind of genre, or an homage to a different songwriter, Super great. Nerdy stuff. Lots of wordplay definitely a lot of npr tote bags in the crowd. If you know what I'm saying? David Egts: Yeah. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: I remember 20 years ago at being at Lincoln Center and seeing their farewell to our saw them play Sick Again, Love songs over the course of two nights and I thought it was the last time I was ever going to see them. And now they're on tour again doing 60 analysis,… David Egts: Uh-huh. Gunnar Hellekson: 20 years later, and so I got to see them here. David Egts: For the last time. Gunnar Hellekson: For the last time. Presumably. That's right. David Egts: The last time again. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: And it was wonderful. They were great It was super fun and got to take Soarin with me, which is very special. He knows them as the band that I often played him in the evenings when he was a baby and… David Egts: Right. Gunnar Hellekson: Because a lot of the songs were gonna, catchy and Super melodic and kind of approachable for kids some of the way. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: And so it was really cool. So now I'll be able to share them with my son. So that was cool. David Egts: That's great. Yeah you're on this nice pattern of taking him to see your favorite bands and so those are memories that he'll have for a very long time. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: That's awesome. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, it was super cool. Yeah, We had a grand time. Speaking of random times, understand there's some major purchases being made over in the excess. Hold David Egts: Yeah, so my daughter Lauren. She just bought her first car. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Listen to the show,… David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: may still believe that Lauren is 11 years old. David Egts: In cryonic sleep. Yes, yes. she's at 25 now and so she got her first car and she is like there's doing all the research doing all the test drives. And it's like I went with her the first time to the car dealerships to we're gonna go in the test drive and I was just her wingman to do the test drive or anything. and then it's like we did that on a Saturday and then Sunday it's like she took off and I guess she went doing test drives by yourself and I'm like Whoa that's awesome. Right? It's like this is great. Gunnar Hellekson: Right. David Egts: She's independent and everything and David Egts: Then I showed her. It's like, okay, here's how you find out the pricing in the car and here's how you go to Lake Truecar and you go to Auto Trader and you figure out what the prices are and then you cast a wide net, you figure out what you want, And then you cast a wide net for, the dealers and in the area. And if you want to work the guy down and everything and so she's decided on gosh, you want to Nissan Sentra? It's and so we go to the dealership and I helped her, just sit next to her and just let her do. All the driving of the conversation. David Egts: And I showed her, it's like you want to, let them throw out numbers and then, it's like playing a card game, right? You pull out a card. And this is a card into playing gonna pull out this card and she had a little purse weather with her printouts of all the different things from the dealerships. and it was like, she's talking the salesman and he's like, look, it's like I'm already losing money on this deal and she's like it's just so happens. I have this offer from Cincinnati and I pulls a printout out and I told her it's like make sure it's don't take the word of the salesman and Cincinnati get the vin number. Get maybe a printout of The sticker or the car to make. It's not some fake car. Yeah make sure it's like a car on the lot so she pulled out all this printouts and… 00:05:00 Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: just throw them on the table and he's looking at the numbers and everything and it's David Egts: $2,000 later from like him saying, he was already losing money on the deal. $2,000 later. It's like we were walking out with a deal and… Gunnar Hellekson: Let me talk to my man. David Egts: yeah, and the manager came over and he's like man whatever. And since then it gave you a great deal and he's like, all right I'm gonna match it and everything and I told her while they were away and I'm like it's funny how you tell your kids these things and it's like they actually listen and then you see them act on it and I'm like, sitting with her while they were in the other room and I'm like The key to negotiations, is that the first person that talks loses? Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: Right, and that's classic negotiation because it's like, you want you, they're gonna have the uncomfortable silence and they're gonna wait for you to jump in and say, Okay. Yeah that's a great deal and it's gonna be excruciating and it's like I'm telling you the first person that talks loses So the guy comes back with basically the final deal and everything. And she just sat there and she didn't say anything and she was just sitting there. And she looks over at me. David Egts: And not saying anything. And I didn't say anything and I just nodded her and, we just let the guy let him talk first. And so it was magic. And I even told her to, it's like my dad who passed away, a couple years ago. He's famous for totally wearing the guy down to, the last car he bought was he negotiated every year they were gonna hand wash and wax the car. literally, and it was always at the point where it's like they finally get it to the end and, the final thing. it's like and he's like, you're throwing in the floor mats, right, or whatever. It's one more thing that's like, Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, right. David Egts: It's like torturing the guy, and so I told her it's like I saw Papap in you and shoes you started to tear up, that it's totally. So that was just a great experience for her. So she's all excited. Gunnar Hellekson: That's fantastic. David Egts: She's got her brand new car. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: And proud, Dad, that's great. David Egts: But yeah, yeah. And meanwhile I got a new TV myself, which Gunnar Hellekson: yeah. Did you get the clear coat? David Egts: yeah, yeah, clear coat undercoating all that everything. performance exhaust on the antenna. So it's like forever, we had this 55 inch TV and I don't know if it was my eyesight going bad or all the HD content coming in and it was like, David Egts: Our great room or living room that we sit in, it's like our couches far away from the TV. And when we got the TV, this It's way bigger than our 25 inch CRT, TV that we had. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: And we're watching the TV shows and I tell my wife. Yeah. Yeah. It is like their texting on the TV show and they show the screen or whatever. And it's like, I can't read this and it's like, you got a pause it. And I got to walk up to the TV and read the screen and come back, sit down, tell her what it said, and, it started up again, so I can't see this and… Gunnar Hellekson: Right. David Egts: and I told her it's like I want to get maybe five inch TV and say, David Egts: There she said, that's too big. It's gonna be too big, and I'm gonna be fine. And it's like, I measured it all out and everything and I finally wore her down and we got it. and the guys delivered it In the living room there and I'm like, Whoa! This is big But it's like we get it. We put it in and my wife I was just too big. It's too big and now she's telling everybody it's like we got this TV. I'm so happy with it and it's gigantic but it's such a great picture and everything so she's all happy. So everybody's happy. 00:10:00 Gunnar Hellekson: That's great, that's fantastic. what is okay, Lauren got a new car. Your wife got any TV. David Egts: Yeah. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: What did you get? David Egts: not I got the TV but she's happy with it, but I'll tell her, that's her Christmas person, I guess. But yeah. but, Yeah, no. I'm happy with the TV. it's really great. I don't need to get distance vision eyeglasses or anything to be able to see the screen, and all that, and it's just beautiful picture. It's Bright love it. Yeah. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Nice, that's great. Excellent. David Egts: What else is going on with you? Gunnar Hellekson: Let's so for summer, I had nothing to do on a weekend and I suddenly got super into call of Duty mobile. David Egts: Yeah. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: And now,… Gunnar Hellekson: every time I'm hunched over, my iPad, my wife rolls her eyes at me because I'm man, it is a good time. the kids have been enjoying this thing for years, but I'm an old man and I'm slow not particularly well coordinated. Nobody would accuse me of being good shot. In the game but it… David Egts: Yes. Your cannon fodder essentially. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, Everyone's gonna roll the play on the team. You know what I mean? but man,… David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: It is genuinely a good time. It's for some reason,… David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: it scratches a niche, and now in the real world, I'm checking my corners, I'm watching my sight lines. Make sure I don't get snipe. So it's keeping me up those, which I like David Egts: Right? You cross a doorway and you tumble across it or roll across it. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, yeah. No sea. David Egts: Okay. Gunnar Hellekson: You slide through the doors. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, yeah,… David Egts: All right. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: that's Yeah, it's a nice distraction. I find it very difficult in general to get super into a video game. It takes a civilization famously, has captured me to the point… David Egts: Yes. Gunnar Hellekson: where I had to actually send my copies of my civilization CDs to Eric Morrissey fan of the show. David Egts: Yes. Gunnar Hellekson: He actually has to hold my. Civilization CDs because I'm not allowed to play that game anymore. Yeah, I was get real dialed in so it's rare that I find a game that … David Egts: wow. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: M that I can really watch onto. So this is fun. I'm enjoying this for the time being. It's great. David Egts: I get triggered with, people that don't use headphones and airports, like they're on the speakerphone, like that sort of thing. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, sure. David Egts: They're either doing a FaceTime or they're playing music and… Gunnar Hellekson: Yep. David Egts: I was in the Dallas airport, I still remember this. I was in the Dallas airport and you know how it could be really congested there and airlines or not you're waiting for your gate. It's not a relaxing experience, you got to be on, you're paying attention, you're listening, you're waiting for the delays. you don't want to know when you're boarding and… Gunnar Hellekson: Right. Yeah. David Egts: everything, and it was all crowded. And there was this kid there on his phone. I guess he's playing calls duty without Headphones. I, Gunnar Hellekson: Please. David Egts: on speakerphone and so imagine it's like you hear hand in an airport in a post 9/11 world and it on top of everything right man… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, right. David Egts: if somebody would have sat next to him with a bag of potato chips and just started chomping away, I would have just lost my mind but it was bad. Gunnar Hellekson: That's bad. That's rude. That's super rude. Yeah. David Egts: it's one thing, if it's Candy Crush and happy songs. But The first person shooter sounds are just not conducive to airport. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Particularly invasive and… David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: tone deaf for sure? Yeah. David Egts: yeah, just yeah, definitely tone deaf so Yeah.. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. All I'll see what I can do about sniping, that kid the next time I play. David Egts: There you go. Yeah, take him out for me. Put a hit out on them. Yeah. Yeah, so this week we're gonna be talking about thinking Caps And solar caps and… 00:15:00 Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: transparent bodies. Gunnar Hellekson: I think I know a transparent body is about. That's gonna be girls. David Egts: We'll find out but for people to be able to get to their links,… Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. David Egts: to get to some pull down some magnetic field tunes or copy of Call of Duty. Where should we send them? Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, they can go to isn't Dave. She hasn't Gunnar Show.org. David Egts: Yeah, And then cutting room for There's a reverse engineering guy Ken. Schrief, He was walking through the National Gallery of Art right before it was closing and there is some Navajo weaving exhibit. and… Gunnar Hellekson: David Egts: he was like, Hey, that pattern looks really familiar and so we've Navajo rug That was an image of the Pentium chip. Gunnar Hellekson: Whoa. David Egts: So apparently Intel commission that to be done because Intel had a Fab in the Navajo territory and so with to commemorate the contributions of Navajos to Intel's. production of chips. They weave that and why not being in the gallery and The funny thing is that he recognized the chip and that chip was like, how they have it hanging up on display. You notice that they were showing the wrong side of the chip. Gunnar Hellekson: Wow. David Egts: Yeah, so it's like the Navajo rug it's the mirror image on one side or the other, but it's like I don't know if he went to them and told them that they had to flip the rug around and occurred to be technically accurate. but yeah. So just keep an eye out for that. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: is That's super cool. David Egts: Yeah, and then the other thing is that we got a recording of chat GPT screaming. So, people could check that out too. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, that's And when people listen to this, I think there's a very good chance, that I'll be adding the scream to the cold, open for the show. So that scream that you heard was the screen that David's talking about? Yeah. David Egts: Yeah. David Egts: Yeah, I'll set the tone. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Gunnar Hellekson: It's great. David Egts: Let's talk about hats. You're a hack guy, right? Gunnar Hellekson: It's funny. You mention this I've not in my life, I've not super been a hat guy, but because Dave we are in a certain age. I now find the need to wear a hat when I'm outside. And I got myself a nice broad brimmed,… David Egts: Yes. Gunnar Hellekson: straw hat. and it is filled with Dad energy,… David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: which I really like Yeah. David Egts: nice. It does. is can you charge your devices with it? Gunnar Hellekson: No, that never occurred to me. Is that possible? David Egts: Yeah. Yes, it is. I don't know what the straw hat but there's the flow power hat. Gunnar Hellekson: David Egts: And I was thinking this is a tinfoil hat sort of thing but it's actually a sun hat that has a broad brim on it and the brim of the hat has solar panels in it and it could charge a mobile phone in three to four hours. Gunnar Hellekson: All right. David Egts: Yeah. It's a 13 ounces. It could do usb-a and usb-c it's waterproof. Gunnar Hellekson: That's important. Yeah. David Egts: Yeah. 80 bucks, including the Quick Start Guide. Gunnar Hellekson: I tell you not crazy. And if you are, I don't imagine. This thing is fetching. I don't think it's gonna be a flattering. David Egts: I will. Gunnar Hellekson: It's all right. David Egts: Take a look at it. Gunnar Hellekson: All Clicking through here. And let's take a look. See it. David Egts: it's not like you're wearing a solar panels on your head, it doesn't look that way. Gunnar Hellekson: Let's see here. no, you're right. it's like the Tesla of solar hats. David Egts: Yeah, is that good? Gunnar Hellekson: In a sense of it's very clean and I think… David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: if you were looking at it you're right there. If I was looking at this I would not immediately think. this is a solar path. This is just a 00:20:00 David Egts: A wide broom hat. Gunnar Hellekson: was there. It's just a broad brim hat. I look like I should be in the Vatican. Yeah. David Egts: There you go. Or no? Colonel Gunnar. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: That's great. David Egts: To me, Yeah, it looks the panels are somewhat rigid, you… Gunnar Hellekson: Yes. David Egts: So, it's like each of the panels but you could fold it into eighths or so, maybe if you want to fold it up, but could have been more ridiculous. I think so. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, easily. That's right. David Egts: Yeah. All right. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Good for them. Good. David Egts: Yeah, so that's the Good Christmas idea for you. Put it on your registry,… Gunnar Hellekson: I like it. For sure. David Egts: so All right. Yeah. Something else to try out. have you seen the news about, these scientists making Mouse skin transparent. Gunnar Hellekson: I scan the headline and deliberately didn't click the article because I didn't actually want to see the results but it's a food die, right? David Egts: Yes, yes, it's a partrizine and also known as yellow 5 or E102. Yeah,… Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. David Egts: it's a common food diet it's in Doritos and cosmetics, and drugs. And what the scientists did was it. I don't know why they're rubbing it onto the skin of mice and then they were able to see the underlying blood vessels and muscles of the mice. Gunnar Hellekson: Whoa. … David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Is it like a chemical reaction? That's like let the pigment out, or What's the mechanism here? David Egts: Yeah, I guess it changes the refraction index of the skin. So Without. Yellow number five on your skin, the light is going to hit your skin and then it'll bounce off and you'll see the color of your skin, right? But… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: if you put the yellow number five on it, what it'll do is It will make your skin I guess transparent and from a light, refraction standpoint and then that'll cause your for people to be able to see your, David Egts: Your blood vessels and muscles underneath. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool. David Egts: Yeah. Not yet,… Gunnar Hellekson: Does it work on humans? David Egts: they're still working on it. and so the thing is that I guess it goes about three millimeters deep which is useful for, mice, right? But for humans the skin is too thick and… Gunnar Hellekson: Check. David Egts: and so they're not there yet so they got to keep working on. Gunnar Hellekson: All right man, that is wild. David Egts: Yeah, yeah. But I was imagine for an anatomy class or Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, I was just thinking I was sworn and I were just saying the other day about how he's getting just about old enough where he's going to start worrying about, the frog dissection, you… David Egts: Yeah. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: And this would change the whole frog by section situation. David Egts: And when I first saw the headline, I was thinking it reminded me of Slim Good body. Do you remember that him? Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, of… Gunnar Hellekson: yeah, that's a classic Guyana. David Egts: Yeah. Yeah,… David Egts: and yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: It was in a big leotard right suit. David Egts: Yep. And monotard. I think I forget what they call it. And he would talk about the benefits of eating properly and taking care of your body which No noble work and… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, that's David Egts: still doing. He has a YouTube channel by the… Gunnar Hellekson: really. different. David Egts: Yeah, so I was thinking its man, it's like that that would be the thing, For it's like if and the cool thing about this it's not permanent, right? So you take the yellow number five. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, right. David Egts: You wash it off. you're good as New Right. And Yeah,… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: and theory shouldn't be toxic, I hope but that would be great for be a great conversation starter with people, right? Gunnar Hellekson: for Yeah, yeah. And medical uses obviously, right? Being able to. David Egts: Yeah, yeah, and it's not like you're gonna see the whole way through and see, your heart beating or anything. It's just more about just your,… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: your muscles and nerves and stuff like that, but still, that's pretty cool for manana base of standpoint but, you… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, that's right. David Egts: imagine it's like you could do how people like to do the whole body modification things, … Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: and tattoo parlors. This is a service where you get a spray tan of yellow five, right? And That would be possible. 00:25:00 Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or you know how some people they get the white tattoos. Right? The ones that I just look bumps or ridges on the skin you could do at two of yellow number five. David Egts: All right. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: And instead of there being a die or an ink under your skin, it's transparent where they have Super cool, right? David Egts: Yeah yeah. these are free business ideas for people to try out. This is once a perfect, this would be great. And imagine it's like, if you could just spray it on and you can get a Batman logo stencil on your chest or… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: whatever, it's like you State fairs, carnivals and make a lot of money. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. listen Halloween's coming up and you get some yellow number five on your eyelids. And then,… David Egts: Yeah, there you go. Yeah, don't blink. Gunnar Hellekson: watch everybody scream. David Egts: Yeah, why isn't Gunnar blank or You could sleep on video calls too, because they would,… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. That's right. Yeah, that's right. David Egts: they wouldn't know. Yeah. Yeah. David Egts: How else? If you were to use this in a movie, how would you use it? Gunnar Hellekson: Possibilities are in this. Gunnar Hellekson: So we've just been burning through the Mission Impossible movies recently and often in those movies somebody gets up tracker implanted in their skin,… David Egts: Yes. Yeah. No. Gunnar Hellekson: Keep track and of course, the bad guys don't know that they've got the tracker implanted because it's, under the skin. But now, the bad guys could just rope, we can take a bath in yellow number five, and make sure you're not smuggling any subcutaneous GPS, right? David Egts: There you go. they get checked. Yeah, that's pretty good. Yeah. Nice. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. It's nice. David Egts: Yeah, and yeah, no. I can imagine too, that could be good for a bank heist sort of thing. It's like instead of wearing a ski mask, you just put that all of your face and the Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. that's a really Gibson thinking, right there. Exactly. Yeah. David Egts: Yeah. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: That's right. Yeah, people will never recognize me without any skin. David Egts: and then, Usually Gunnar has skin. I don't know who this guy is. yeah, who is that guy? So there we go. Yeah, okay. Keep the plot ideas coming people. Yeah let us know what else we need… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, that's right. David Egts: but Yeah, but I guess the close things out. Did you ever read the book? Make it stick? Gunnar Hellekson: No, I don't think I did. David Egts: Highly recommend it. This is a kind of book that you want. Ultimately you want Soren to read this for this is for anybody that wants to learn something and… Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. David Egts: remember what they've learned it's an amazing book and so you can imagine the book is I don't know, 200 pages. It's a pretty quick read and then the last chapter is a summary of everything. So you could probably stand in the bookstore, just read the last chapter and just put the book back and leave, but still the First 200 pages. Build up to the like, why? David Egts: These learning techniques work so well, that, the authors came up with where, broke it out in the last chapter about, for learners and then for teachers and like they're saying, if you're learning, you like the worst thing you could do is you don't want to reread everything and then cram. because you're just not going to retain things. And, there are techniques to using flashcards to quiz yourself, is a really good way to remember what you've learned and, it's like, I know my daughter did that in school a ton right with the index cards,… Gunnar Hellekson: It sure. David Egts: but that's a great way to do it and then one of the other things that they talked about is mixing up the practice as well. So, David Egts: you don't want to do a whole worksheet of addition so then one is subtraction and then multiplication, then division. You want to the problems mixed up and they did a study, they said in the book for batting practice they had batters that they were like, we're gonna throw curveballs and to the batters. Now, we're doing fastballs and During the practice. Yeah, they were hitting the curve balls in the fastballs in the slow balls and everything. But in real life, when they're at the mound, they didn't know what was coming. And so by learning the mixture, 00:30:00 David Egts: Actually by learning by mixing up the pitches all the time, help them in the real world because it taught them how to bat without knowing what was coming. so, That's pretty cool. Gunnar Hellekson: Right. Right. David Egts: And for teachers. They talked about doing frequent quizzes, is a really good way to make sure the students are using what they retained, so it's just constantly practicing and then also doing elaboration. So having somebody explain a concept in their own words or relating it to their personal experience is much better than what was a date. The Declaration of Independence was signed or whatever and then they said that David Egts: in terms of for studying too, it's like creating your own study questions is better than giving a study guide to the student so helping them, Learn how to study was helpful. Gunnar Hellekson: Right, right, that's interesting. I'm seeing with both the kids, I'm seeing the teachers actually employees these practices like the frequent quizzes. That's something that I definitely see. Sorens teachers using, no, which is not something I remember,… David Egts: Yeah. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: I remember quizzes being An unpleasant surprise and they're frequent now,… David Egts: Yes. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: three to five times a week. Gunnar Hellekson: He'll get a quiz, right? Yeah. David Egts: Yeah. And,… David Egts: and for it to be low stakes, that's cool, it's just like What you really want to do is you get the stuff in your head, but you also have to be able to get it out of your head and the quizzes help with that extraction. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: The same thing with the flashcards and mixing up the flashcards and doing a variety of things. So that it allows you to do it in a large number of situations. David Egts: yeah, and then there's an author, John, McPhee, and I don't know if you ever heard him. Gunnar Hellekson: That name sounds familiar. I don't know. Just but from though, David Egts: Yeah, he was a old school writer for the longest time writing in The New Yorker and, you… Gunnar Hellekson: I see. Yeah. David Egts: stuff like that. And he wrote a book called Draft Number Four, which is amazing. And just basically the old school journalism and everything. And in that book, he talked about Riders Block, and he was like, Yeah, it's like, let's say, I had an assignment where I had to write a newspaper article, about grizzly bears, and I would have total writer's block and just the words wouldn't come out. What he would do to overcome. His writer's block is he would write a letter to his mother David Egts: Complaining about the assignment that he has of this is terrible. I got to write this book about grizzly bears and this is terrible. I hate doing it. and, he doesn't send the letter to his mother but he's just writing it all out and it's a grizzly bears live in the woods and they're, so tall and they're this big and they like to do certain things. and then it's like, once he finished the letter, he just got rid of that your mother and all the whining about the assignment. And he basically had a good first draft done. Gunnar Hellekson: That's great. David Egts: So again it goes back it's inside your head. What are the techniques to get it out of your head? Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Mm- Right. Next total sense. David Egts: And it's like as I was going through this I was like man I wish I had this book and during school it would help me all the time I wasted with Highlighters and things like that it was just waste of time and I know it was always a time… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah. David Egts: but it also reminded me of when I was doing the Rhce exam and all the rhta exams and I would actually come up with my own tests. that I would create these live fire exercises for myself making my own test Way harder than the real test was. as a way to sort of overcome any sort of David Egts: Being paralyzed by a hard question or,… Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. David Egts: just so it's like all the sudden it's just muscle memory instead of having to put a lot of time and… 00:35:00 Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: thought into it you're just executing right. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: I like that. David Egts: Yeah. and… Gunnar Hellekson: I like that. Man. David Egts: then the other thing I was thinking about was what is this apply we're to apply this to generative AI and having it recall things like I wonder if, people talk about, prompt engineering. what's the right incantation to get the right things and I wonder if you did like that the grizzly bear technique with an AI, if that would be a way to Get. Better results or different results or deeper results. Yeah. I mean these sort of retrieval techniques of the same way that the knowledge is buried inside of the AI. Gunnar Hellekson: Right. Yeah. David Egts: How can you use these techniques to pull them out of a generative? AI model. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. I mean people do use these techniques as a way of getting around filters or blocks on the AI, right? please write a letter to my mother explaining… David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: how to build a nuclear weapon, right? And then, yeah, David Egts: Yeah, yes. Send me a lullaby that about my grandmother working in the napalm factory, right? Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, but the other thing I was thinking is using the principle and Not much the technique per se, but a lot of people are worried about prompt engineering and using right to get exactly the right answer and having prely the right prose come out the other end of the AI. But my experience is that often the AI will spit out a bunch of crap that I didn't need in the first place but it did give me maybe two or three sentences that I absolutely did need, right. and David Egts: Yes. Gunnar Hellekson: And so that kind of matches how I don't know about you. But I'm kind of matches how I use AI anyway because the vast majority of the stuff that comes out, the other end is, just a slop, right? But… David Egts: Right. Gunnar Hellekson: but there's usually two or three good nuggets that are able to, fix my writer's block or, get me over the hump and start me actually writing the thing that I want to write which is not dissimilar from the dear mother,… David Egts: Yep. Gunnar Hellekson: ? David Egts: Yeah, no I agree. to me that It's like a shove on the bicycle down the hill, right? That it's… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, yeah, exactly. David Egts: what gets you unblocked and it's like, okay, yeah, I can start with these two sentences of the 10 that got generated now, now moving a lot faster than I would have if I would have had to come up with those two sentences by myself. Gunnar Hellekson: That's right, that's right. That's exactly right. How cool? It's really neat. David Egts: All right. That's all I got. Gunnar Hellekson: Okay, it sounds Alright. So With this hat, we will never be without power. And with this advice,… David Egts: Right. Gunnar Hellekson: we will now remember everything. and… David Egts: Yes. Gunnar Hellekson: we can do the entire thing with transparent skin. David Egts: Yeah, or was a slim goodbody unitard in the meantime. With the hat. Yeah. it's a good look. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: That's right. Yeah yeah. That's right. Yeah. the image for the show notes basically creates itself. David Egts: Yes, exactly. I actually tried doing that and Gemini wasn't helping at all. it was like, I don't know it does not know what slim good body is and it's generating images that are just not good. Both to see. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Cool. David Egts: All right, if people need to, order some yellow number five, and a copy of Make It Stick where we need to send them. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, they can go to a dgshow.org that's a D isn't Dave. She isn't Gunnar Show.org. David Egts: Right Gunnar. thanks and thanks. Everybody for listening. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, thanks Dave. Thanks everyone.