This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. People can also change the text after it was created. David Egts: So Gunnar what's going on? Gunnar Hellekson: David got me. Yeah. They got me. David Egts: Yeah. We've got you. Gunnar Hellekson: Overlapping and mutually, exclusive technology ecosystems. Yeah. David Egts: no, That doesn't sound good. Gunnar Hellekson: No, This is The Curse Of Modern Life as I think so as you might know. I have the Apple watch right? And my lovely wife got for me an aura ring for Christmas. David Egts: Yeah. David Egts: Right. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, and so the order ring has basically all the sensors that the watch has, for body, pulse and temperature and whatever else but it's in a convenient ring format. So much more portable and… David Egts: right Gunnar Hellekson: I said, this is rad I'm gonna wear this ring. And then it'll free me up to where a grown up like big boy watch instead of this Fisher-Price laws,… David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: and I'm wearing most of the time. And so… David Egts: right Gunnar Hellekson: then I immediately went to my collection of watches and by that. I mean the one watch I still had and The watch was out of batteries, And life being… David Egts: Mm-hmm Gunnar Hellekson: what it is. I didn't really get around to replacing the battery on the watch until this weekend. And I said, this is amazing. I'm gonna be able to just wear a regular watch like a normal person and I'll just leave the bioinformatics to the ring. All right. Gunnar Hellekson: Four hours later I discover something terrible. David Egts: Okay. Gunnar Hellekson: a lot of people in the Apple ecosystem. I like clothes in my rings, I got three rings. I got an activity ring and I got an exercise ring and I got a standing right? Gunnar Hellekson: I learned four hours after taking my Apple watch off and just using the aura ring itself is I get no credit for standing. And I do not get credit for any exercise… David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: unless it is logged as a workout. So normal getting up walking around all the other stuff,… David Egts: Gunnar Hellekson: which is important part of my calorie burning every day. I don't get any credit for that at all. David Egts: right Gunnar Hellekson: On the Rings now if I go to the aura tool if I go to their app, it tells me congratulations you've been standing and walking and exercising and all that other stuff, but the apple ring. App the health app activity app tells me that I did nothing and I sat on the couch all day. David Egts: Okay, okay. Gunnar Hellekson: So now I'm stuck betwixt in between I could go back to my Apple watch lifestyle. Or I could fully commit to the aura ring lifestyle. Or both but I can't just have one of the other. David Egts: so basically the order ring isn't talking to health kit in terms of all the Telemetry. It's Gathering. Gunnar Hellekson: Yes, and then I did whatever every good technology guy would do is I went over to Reddit and I started reading it whatever else had to say about this. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: What Aurora tells us is that this is not a limitation of their own software is that Apple has not produced an API that allows anyone else to the standing ring So they could conceivably go record my activity and… David Egts: Wow. Gunnar Hellekson: my exercise right? But as long as I'm not wearing an Apple Watch, I will never get credit for standing. Gunnar Hellekson: So there's a show title. and you could say Gunnar. why do you care about the Rings in the first place? I say great question and it's because Apple has taught me. Through all these various devices that I've got that the ring matters a lot and I fully internalized the need to close Rings each day. but now I'm in I got to choose it's very frustrating. I wish all the stuff would just work together. David Egts: That's terrible that it doesn't do that. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: It is terrible. I agree. So anyway, that's what's gonna. David Egts: Yeah, because I still do the meme fitness band whatever and I got my rings and it'll integrate with Android pretty well. I don't know… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: if it does the standing track as much it's more about I forget what the Rings are for I think one is some sort of High activity sort of thing exercising sort of activity the other one steps and then David Egts: something for something else, but it tracks all three. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, yeah, like I said if I just give up my childish attachment to these rings I could just commit to the Aura app and let that be my feedback right and… 00:05:00 David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: I would probably be okay, but I can't bring myself to do it tough. David Egts: So now you're wearing the ring and the Apple watch and the analog watch. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, that's right. that's how I was just gonna end right? So yeah,… David Egts: Yep. Gunnar Hellekson: I just wish I could get rid of this dumb laws and John on my wrist. I wish I could wear just a big boy watch. That's really all I want. Yeah. So… David Egts: Yep. Gunnar Hellekson: but not for me not today. David Egts: It's crazy that they don't do that. Gunnar Hellekson: It's crazy. I agree. David Egts: What do they have to gain by not doing that? Gunnar Hellekson: it does if I would probably not go stay on the Apple watch upgrade hamster wheel. If I had some other way to produce this data, right? David Egts: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Terrible anyway, what's going on with you? David Egts: my life is not nearly as complex. Yeah now I'm doing okay. nothing major to report. Yeah, nothing to report. Gunnar Hellekson: Sounds good. David Egts: Yeah, but we do have a good show lined up today. We're not going to mention AI once except for me just mentioning it just now and we'll see if we talk about it again, but It's not a scheduled thing. but yeah, we will be talking about another fake University that's out there that you could apply to we're going to talk about brain organoids. Gunnar Hellekson: nice David Egts: And so it's the next Evolution that I think you'll be interested in. And yeah,… Gunnar Hellekson: excellent David Egts: and without getting your hands dirty and getting to get into some brain organoids, and then we're going to talk about policing with drones. Gunnar Hellekson: all right. Let's just sounded. David Egts: Yeah, yeah. And so if people want to sign up to get their own brain organoids and wire it to Apple health kit and all that. where should we send them? Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, they can go to a dgshow.org that's decent Dave Jesus and Gunnar's show.org. Yeah. David Egts: Yeah, Okay, and then Cutting Room floor. We spent a good 20 minutes looking at the pictures on this. Yeah, yeah,… Gunnar Hellekson: He did. Yeah, that's a good time. Yeah. David Egts: so a strange and wonderful illustrations from vintage science books. So yeah, we had some total flashbacks of David Egts: really really great retro pictures for people to check out Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, if you like chunky eyeglasses men in short sleeve shirts and tie Pocket protectors women in ura costumes right those a line dresses that kind of stuff. David Egts: pocket protectors Gunnar Hellekson: Perfect. Great. David Egts: Yeah, and I was saying it just seems like the ashtrays were out of the frame and so many of these pictures. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, that's right. That's right. David Egts: Yeah, all Yeah, so people could check that out. And then what I added in, you mentioned the world of the future cities is a must read for is it pairs nicely with that list of textbooks for people to check out? Gunnar Hellekson: Yes. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, certainly does yeah usborne's world of the future where from I guess the 70s they kind of guess what the world's going to be like in the 21st century and some things they got right some things they did not. But it was cool Bible actually presages the existence of the Apple watch for example. David Egts: . David Egts: did it talk about how it was an integrated with health kit and people in the future had to wear the Apple watch and a ring and analog watch all at the same time. Gunnar Hellekson: I think it's interesting that the good that the folks that was born who put together the world of the future simply assumed that we were going to overcome technology in by the 21st century. They just took that as red. David Egts: No. No such thing. Gunnar Hellekson: Didn't it? that's what Not our world. David Egts: Not in our world. Yeah. All right. Gunnar Hellekson: That's right. David Egts: So you remember we talked before about the University of Northern, New Jersey? yeah, so Right,… Gunnar Hellekson: Yes, yes famously not a university. David Egts: right. It was set up by Ice as a sting. 00:10:00 Gunnar Hellekson: right David Egts: To get people from outside the US to sign up to get I guess education visas and it was set up to be a scheme that they would sign up whether or not you took the classes or… Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. David Egts: not. You still got your ability to come into the United States and… Gunnar Hellekson: Yes. David Egts: you got your visa and all that and they would go around Prosecuting people and then eventually they shut it down. I guess there's another one that it's and I thought that it's like, they just did the University of Northern New Jersey, but the ice folks they had another one. It was the University of Farmington. in Michigan, not Maine the University of Farmington, and Maine is actually a real University as far as We Know. Gunnar Hellekson: So good so it sounds like the immigration Customs Enforcement Department of entrapment was awfully busy. David Egts: But if you go to and I even put links in the show notes that you could go to the internet archive,… Gunnar Hellekson: It seems like they didn't just send themself with one just to get a whole franchise David Egts: the way back machine and look at the ice front University of Farmington fake web page that you could sign up for. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: Yeah. right Now it's probably. Gunnar Hellekson: That's great. And by the way, I'm looking at the logo for the University of Farmington and… David Egts: Yep. Yeah,… David Egts: it probably I could imagine the meeting they were brainstorming like University names and… Gunnar Hellekson: Man, not bad. As far as University, let's go. It's I mean,… David Egts: it's like,… Gunnar Hellekson: it's pretty good. David Egts: it's like University of Northern New Jersey then and they had a whole bunch of them. So who knows what else we'll find out but I'm still looking so we'll see and… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah. David Egts: if people find others and they want to send them our way, we'll add them to the list. so Gunnar Hellekson: It's great. high quality products Yeah. David Egts: Yeah. Yeah, you got a shield with a cross on it looks very Crusade Lake and… Gunnar Hellekson: yeah. David Egts: then you got a book with a gear. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah property of Farmington athletic department that kind of thing. David Egts: Yeah. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, yeah,… Gunnar Hellekson: that'd be great. David Egts: Looks like they put some time into it. David Egts: Yeah. Yeah, that's the thing. It's like I want to set up an Etsy Shop of selling, the sweatshirts of these, property of University of Farmington, sort of shirts and stuff like that, Gunnar Hellekson: They're notoriously tough graders over there at the University of Arkansas. Yeah. David Egts: Yeah, yeah. I'd be rich. and by the way, and for fun, too. I also looked on LinkedIn and… Gunnar Hellekson: Great. David Egts: there are still a bunch of people that list University of Northern New Jersey. Gunnar Hellekson: Yes. Yes. David Egts: Is there alma mater, but I couldn't find anybody that listed University of Farmington. Is there alma mater? David Egts: Yeah, maybe not as many people graduated from there. So. David Egts: Yeah. Okay, so Brain organoids we haven't talked about brain organoids in a while, right? David Egts: so, brain organoids you're growing these I don't know stem cells or brain slices that you're getting and then you want to do stuff with them have some stimulants going on and all that and have it do some computation for yourself, but for most of us, we don't have the biology lab that a lot of the … Gunnar Hellekson: This sounds perfect. This sounds great because I've been meaning to if I remember right,… David Egts: the big companies would have or… Gunnar Hellekson: the application of Electro electricity to a brain organoid can stimulate things like the creation of eyes for example,… David Egts: the universities wouldn't it be great if you and I could Just remotely log into a brain and… Gunnar Hellekson: remember this. David Egts: and not have the fuss and months of all the biology on our side and we just totally Outsource it as a service. Gunnar Hellekson: little on those David Egts: Yeah, yeah eyelets or whatever. Yeah. so there's a Swiss bio Computing startup called final Spark. Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. David Egts: Okay, and yes, they have an online platform that remote access to 16 brain organoids. David Egts: And they say that it consumes a million times less power than traditional processors. So it's a Greener way to go I guess. yeah, and then they have these so basically the way it works is that They have these multi- arrays. Okay, that are so you get four of these multi electrode arrays and then they're housing the living tissue the brain organized which are a 3D cell masses of brain tissue. And each of the multi-electrode arrays hold for organoids a piece. 00:15:00 Gunnar Hellekson: alright David Egts: So you're up to 16 brain organoids you can get into and then they're interface by Electric eight electrodes. Gunnar Hellekson: I'm trying to think about… Gunnar Hellekson: what Computing problem I have that could be solved with a David Egts: And… David Egts: you could do stimulation you could also do recording. Gunnar Hellekson: Is that a 16 bit computer? David Egts: And 30 kilohertz sampling frequency at a 16-bit resolution. Gunnar Hellekson: Is that what that is? David Egts: How much would you pay? Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. Not fast, though. I'm guessing. David Egts: 16 bit resolution. So 30 kilohertz sampling frequency. So your sampling the stimulation of the brain organoid at 30 kilohertz, and then you're gonna get I guess an analog to digital signal back of 16 bit number. Gunnar Hellekson: All right, and I'm reading here. It says initially the arrays only last a few hours but refinements to the system mean in organoid lifespan is currently expected to be about a hundred days. David Egts: It's a sampling. David Egts: So I guess the brain could be. Gunnar Hellekson: So sorry we had to cancel your job the organized. David Egts: Computing more often than you want, but it could only sample at 30 kilohertz Gunnar Hellekson: that's right. That's right. David Egts: Mhm. That's why you want to do it as a service, right? Gunnar Hellekson: ' That's right. I've got to order more saline and… David Egts: Yeah, yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: organoids. Otherwise,… David Egts: No and… Gunnar Hellekson: I'll never get this homework done. Yeah. Yeah. David Egts: imagine this is HP would be into the way they like to do this stuff with the ink and… Gunnar Hellekson: I love it. All right, that's not. David Egts: and yeah,… David Egts: you're always reordering the ink and… Gunnar Hellekson: I would pay. David Egts: it can be automatic. You could always reward,… David Egts: get them to fill the vat up with more organoids and… Gunnar Hellekson: What is it? Gunnar Hellekson: How was it by an hour? Is it like you're renting time? David Egts: and brain juice Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. … David Egts: Yeah. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: I'd pay as much as $20 or… Gunnar Hellekson: something like that. David Egts: So how much would you pay? Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: How about four shared organized a month? Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. David Egts: So you pay by the month and in quantities of four organoids? Gunnar Hellekson: Naturally, right? Yeah. David Egts: $20 if you're a university or educational institution like the University of Farmington 500 bucks a month. Gunnar Hellekson: that's great. That's fantastic. David Egts: 500 bucks a month and it's your time sharing the four organized with whoever else too. Gunnar Hellekson: That's true. That's right. Yeah, and… David Egts: So I… Gunnar Hellekson: all of the you… David Egts: how that works,… Gunnar Hellekson: especially trained technicians does you keep the organized alive and… David Egts: in terms of what sort of SL 80 you get,… Gunnar Hellekson: also you're right you're right. That is a Barger. David Egts: all that stuff, but Gunnar Hellekson: That is a bargain. I get Dave let's just put this there's still finding product Market fit. David Egts: Yeah. 500 bucks a month that's a bargain right for it like all the wet work that you don't have to do. Gunnar Hellekson: I would say it's fair to say. Gunnar Hellekson: But that's true. But yeah,'re You're right. Yeah, the future is right for organoids in general. I mean up not the specific organized because they're gonna die in a month, but the idea the market that's right. Yeah. David Egts: It's progressing though. we went from organoids to organoids with eye formations to now we could remotely access them from anywhere. So that's a good thing. Gunnar Hellekson: Yes, let's talk about that. David Egts: I'm bullish. Yeah. David Egts: the market Yeah, yeah that in Plastics. Yeah. David Egts: Yeah, so, How about police drunk? Yeah, this is from a wired article that is a pretty long read. Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. David Egts: But well worth it and they talked about back in. October 2018 the city of Chula Vista, California became the first in the nation to have a drone as first responder program or dfr program drone is first responder. And so imagine you got a 911 call that comes in says hey there's a car accident. Robbery whatever, a lot of times it takes a long time for the police officer to get across town through all the traffic and everything to get to where you are. Especially I'm sure in California right with all the traffic. 00:20:00 David Egts: David Egts: In this case, while the police officers are in route, you could dispatch a drone and so imagine you have these first person viewer drone operators that they'll dispatch a drone and it goes off and it'll get there before people get there. Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. David Egts: And so they said that they were Criss crossing the skies. They had over 20,000 or… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah, I mean it seems skull it seems like it could be helpful right yeah,… David Egts: nearly 20,000 times since 2018. And then they were appearing it noise complaints car accidents overdoses domestic disputes and… Gunnar Hellekson: get somebody there on the scene before the people do that seems great. Yeah. David Egts: homicides. And I'm certain reading I'm like, hey, that's not bad. it's a nice augmentation, right? what do you think so far? David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. seems David Egts: Yeah, yeah, so then it's like as I'm reading the article it slowly starting to get worse. Gunnar Hellekson: it seems creepy like that. That's a no for me, right? David Egts: And so one of the things that they were doing is it they said early in the pandemic the city used drones to broadcast public service announcements to homeless encampments. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, That's right. And especially when you're talking about Police Department who is empowered to use force on citizens having something even if it's just a drone with a megaphone on it. So detached from actual human interaction, it seems like only bad things can happen from there. David Egts: kind of like a Blade Runner sort of thing or RoboCop sort of thing. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. right Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, right. Yeah, right. David Egts: All right. Yep. Yeah. Yeah, so I was in a fan of that and then just the had it go around doing announcement and then fly, get out of here or whatever or behave yourself or shouting out orders the people It's Just not cool, and then they said that the police were promoting the benefits of the dfr program,… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah. David Egts: but they said that the residents who encountered the technology day-to-day started to report that they were feeling constantly watched. and they're afraid to spend time in their backyards and some of it was It's like what if they're looking at my window or what if on sunbathing in my backyard or whatever and they're gonna be looking at me or it's like okay I get it. David Egts: and the thing as I was thinking about that I was thinking for you you're at home you see a police car fly down your street. It's a public road,… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, you're… David Egts: right? But… Gunnar Hellekson: It seems weird. David Egts: what if it's a drone that is flying over your house and… Gunnar Hellekson: It seems creepy right and… David Egts: it's shortcutting to get to a scene of a crime and… Gunnar Hellekson: especially I kind of think about Even if they're not actually paying attention to me in that moment that I know that that drone is able to record everything that it's watching as it's traveling from here to there. David Egts: you're in your backyard and you're just trying to have a nice cookout or whatever and you have these things zipping over and… Gunnar Hellekson: Right and so they can always go back and look at that recording. David Egts: and I'm… Gunnar Hellekson: So that's creepy. David Egts: that doesn't seem cool. But what do you think about that? Gunnar Hellekson: But then my mind went somewhere else, which was listen, there are video cameras. I have six video cameras in my car. Doing the same thing. Right just recording all the time but what's different about it is? I in my car and my six video cameras don't have the power to arrest anybody. and so the idea that somebody who is Empowered to use violence against me in certain circumstances the idea that they could have a even passively recording me doing something that there's kind of an implicit threat in that or… David Egts: Yes. Gunnar Hellekson: there's the feeling of an implicit threat in that, I think that's… David Egts: Mm-hmm Gunnar Hellekson: what made it feel different for me. 00:25:00 David Egts: Yes. David Egts: There's and so as I was reading it I was going back of like that's terrible and… Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. David Egts: then there's some good news here. so on the positive side, the Chula Vista Police Department. They insist that the drones don't connect or they don't conduct random surveillance. or they don't go out to search for you… Gunnar Hellekson: yes. Yes. David Egts: they don't go on patrols. Just looking for trouble, They're only deployed in response to 911 calls or for lawful searches. And then also the police department logs every single time that the Drone was deployed. And so there's a record of when it was dispatched where it went to and all that. David Egts: Or at least they said that that was the thing, but they actually did a record search and they only got 90% of the dispatch Lake only ninety percent of the dispatches were recorded. There was 10% that they're offline the Drone and there was no record of what it was doing. Just kind of weird. Yeah. but at least it's 90% compared to zero, but Still it's like you only need 10% for whatever. But yeah, so I David Egts: So they said that they did the analysis and approximately one in 10 drone flights listed on the Department's transparency portal lack to stated purpose and cannot be connected to relevant 911 call and there were 498 flights that were an unknown problem. Gunnar Hellekson: I see okay. Okay. David Egts: And who knows maybe it was front-loaded at the beginning when they're getting started with this and they didn't have their systems all down. Maybe. I don't know. David Egts: but at least they're doing that the other good news part of it outside of keeping a log of and it being purposeful. They said that at the conclusion of a flight the teleoperator says at the conclusion of the flight. the drones camera is programmed to automatically tilt upward and zoom out to reduce the chances at private property is accidentally recorded. David Egts: Yeah, that's kind of cool. So as it's flying to its destination. It's not like scanning all kind of stuff and… Gunnar Hellekson: Yes, right. David Egts: slurping it all up and… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, I see here that for example drones flew over a typical Westside block ten times longer than over the typical East Side block while on route or… David Egts: and it's tilted up and everything since it's kind of good I guess but Yeah, the other thing no surprise too is that they said that the poor neighborhoods had more exposure to drones. Gunnar Hellekson: at the scene of an incident. Gunnar Hellekson: So that's suspicious, right? David Egts: And the police were like yeah because there's more crime in the poor neighborhoods. and so then there's the like is it a Over-policing you know what? I mean in terms of disproportionate use of this technology are they applying the law unequally to poorer neighborhoods or are the poor neighborhoods greater sources of crime. David Egts: Yeah, yeah. David Egts: It's yeah. David Egts: Yeah. Yeah, you could have a mesh of drones that are. was it gorgon's there? Do you remember that? David Egts: Yeah, and the interesting thing with Gordon stare is that they would use it we'll also for crimes in the United States,… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, yeah. David Egts: but also like an Iraq and all that they would play the tape backwards. so they would. Gunnar Hellekson: I feel like these So it's somewhere in the article. David Egts: So gorg and stare you you would have these drones with these high-res cameras, like filming a section of the city and… Gunnar Hellekson: They say that one of the experts talk about self-perpetuating Mission Crete,… David Egts: then in Iraq, you would have an IED that would blow up and… Gunnar Hellekson: We're just like the existence of this capability justifies in necessitates its use. David Egts: then it's like we recorded that the ID blew up and now we could play the tape backwards to see that. 00:30:00 Gunnar Hellekson: So I don't like that… David Egts: There's somebody in a purple car that there are pickup truck that put the IED there and… Gunnar Hellekson: because the incentives are all misaligned. Right and… David Egts: then you play the tape backwards of… Gunnar Hellekson: I see the initially utility of it makes perfect sense. David Egts: where is that purple truck? Where did they originate from? Gunnar Hellekson: Get somebody out there earlier,… David Egts: So they could do the reverse crime lookup sort of thing. Gunnar Hellekson: and have a better chance that Dave. I don't know in the article. Did they talk about did this reduce crime rates or… David Egts: No. Yeah. what's your take on all this it? Gunnar Hellekson: did this improve case load on the cops? David Egts: Are you for it what? Gunnar Hellekson: What was the actual outcome of this? program David Egts: Where should we go from here? Gunnar Hellekson: right Gunnar Hellekson: All I think We're done here. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like let's assume for a second that if they did have an improvement in the prime rate or close rates or if there was any kind of metric on the outcomes that was positive that the city of the Chula Vista the police department or the drone maker would make sure that this journalist new about it, right? David Egts: yeah, if I don't remember,… Gunnar Hellekson: so we've got this potentially very invasive and… David Egts: but I don't remember reading anything about any Improvement in crime,… Gunnar Hellekson: ripe for abuse capability that doesn't appear to actually be improving the outcomes that it claims to be improving right even… David Egts: but I believe the chief of police for Chula Vista is now an employee of the drone maker that makes this product. Gunnar Hellekson: though it seems like it should Gunnar Hellekson: You have to wonder Why do this in the first place? David Egts: Is like an influencer? David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Listen, if you ever seen a drone fireworks show. That is super cool, right? and… David Egts: Yes, true. Gunnar Hellekson: if the city of Chula Vista can organize a really bogglingly great July the fourth celebration using their remainder police drones. David Egts: Yep. Gunnar Hellekson: I think that's maybe the best use for them. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, That's right reducing fire hazards. Yeah, it's great. David Egts: Yeah. No, I agree. I agree. Gunnar Hellekson: All Yeah, that's all I got to. David Egts: Would you say that for the Fourth of July parade? Would you want to have drones in the parade or not? Gunnar Hellekson: And they should go to dgshow.org. David Egts: Yes. Yeah, yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: That's a DS and Dave. She isn't Gunnar's show.org. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Thanks, Dave. Thanks everyone. David Egts: That would be good PR. Do you still use technology? David Egts: Yeah, yeah. All right. David Egts: that's all I got. All right. So if people need to pick their favorite pictures from the strange and wonderful illustrations of vintage science books, where do they need to go? David Egts: All right. thanks Gunnar. Thanks everybody.