Transcript David Egts: So Gunnar what's going on? Gunnar Hellekson: man, I feel I just read an article Dave about how there's a two kind of leaps in aging one makes one of the 60 right Yeah,… David Egts: Yeah, 44 and 6 years on yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: that's right. David Egts: I saw it, but I didn't Tell me about it. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, I was gonna read it, but then I got real tired and took a nap. And I guess it made me realize I'm really feeling my age. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Maybe It's a hundred three outside right now,… David Egts: Yes. Gunnar Hellekson: but I am feeling slow lately. but I managed to get myself out of the house to go help my darling wife start her new store. David Egts: Yeah. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: So she's got a farm stand at the Farmers Market. Gunnar Hellekson: We can talk more about that later, but for the purposes of this show. I'm here to provide an endorsement of the Leatherman Micra. So the Leatherman Tool right? David Egts: okay. Gunnar Hellekson: It's in a multi-tool and when you think about a Leatherman and micro so you think about something it's like a good size knife when it's unfolded right and it's got lots of tools that often. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: This one is keychain-sized. David Egts: okay, okay. Gunnar Hellekson: And comes with you got your tweezers and you got your screwdrivers and you got a screwdriver for glasses super important and… David Egts: okay. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: where you might otherwise have pliers, when it's fully unfolded or oven pliers. It's a set of scissors. Something male and… David Egts: okay. Nice. Gunnar Hellekson: whatnot and man, I realize that I've been carrying this thing around my dad got this for me. I want to say 20 15 20 years ago, and I've been carrying this thing around with me ever… David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: since and when I carry it with me I use it. Every day every day. David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: and super portable Cannot travel through TSA with it. I learned the hardware… David Egts: Yes. Yes. Gunnar Hellekson: but man what a handy thing to have and as a gentleman of a certain age, I'm over 44 if you know what I mean. Having a multi-tool in your pocket at all times becomes part of your identity. David Egts: Yeah. David Egts: Yes. Gunnar Hellekson: And… Gunnar Hellekson: so I'm here to endorse the Leatherman Micra. David Egts: Yeah, my dad was like He always had a knife on him. It was always super sharp. You always had pocket knife and he was sharpening it and yeah, you could really hurt yourself with it. But anytime yes. Hey, I need open this and then Pam he's pulling the knife out. So it was and… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: I was about to say too. It's like If you're carrying the Leatherman around all the time, that's also a signal that you're not a frequent Traveler. Gunnar Hellekson: That's right. Yeah, that's right. That's right. David Egts: Yeah here because you're the Karen or you're not and I remember one time There's post nine eleven. And I was working at SGI and it's like we do the trade shows and I had to have all the cables and all modem cables and DVI adapters and the Leatherman and everything and then it's like yeah, I had a duffle bag everything in a duffel bag and I was going through security and it's like, you can't take that little man through and I'm like and so fortunately I was able to go back and check the duffle bag. But otherwise I would have stuck because they're pretty pricey. Gunnar Hellekson: Pretty pricey. That's true. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. David Egts: So do you ever make that mistake where you were trying to take it through? Gunnar Hellekson: I did well twice I've made that mistake and so first time I found a way to mail it to myself and… David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: then a second time is I sacrificed it to the TSA gods and… David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: then I went and bought myself an identical replacement but I figured out how to solve this problem though is that if I carry it in my day bag that I roll around with that is not my carry-on. Then I'm never in danger of accidentally bringing with me. David Egts: Mm-hmm David Egts: Okay, so the day bag does not go on travel with you. Got it. Gunnar Hellekson: Correct. David Egts: Yep. Gunnar Hellekson: that's so that's what's cooking over here Leatherman micro. David Egts: Yeah, yeah. David Egts: Okay, yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: How about you have you invaded Europe recently or? David Egts: I'll tell so last week was Day Conneaut. So history fans this year is the 80th anniversary of the Day invasion on Normandy Beach right and… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: every year in Connaught Ohio, which is right on Lake ie, chords Erie Pennsylvania on the north east coast Connaught, Ohio would close the beach down and they would have these World War Two reenactment people come in and they would reenact invading the late, the Normani Invasion, but by invading Lake Erie, 00:05:00 Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. David Egts: Yeah, it was so I have a link in the show notes to an older article where they said that they had about 850 participants of reenactment people and about 20,000 Spectators. and It's like every other reenactor person was either. They were a German they were an American. They were a French Resistance. They had, a little bit everybody, and then during the day they would have these reenactment skirmishes and they'd have Jeeps rolling around and there's one guy that he owns four World War Two tanks. He's actually a rabbi and he's David Egts: Were tanks and then every hour on the hour they were firing them. And so they were shooting the tank cannons and the 50 caliber machine guns and everything and they're shooting tommy guns and you could pick up some of the rifles and a Tommy Gun is surprisingly heavy. it's a lot of metal and so that was really wild and it was to the point where David Egts: And then at 3 o'clock, they actually did The Invasion where they had the landing craft and they had about four landing craft and they would pick soldiers up and then drop them off on the beach part and then go away and pick up more people drop them off had this continuous, thing going on and then they had of people Just landing on the beach. They had the tanks firing on the shore and instantly had the tanks shooting at you. So it was pretty wild because you would see the muzzle flash and then a second later you hear it and you feel it in your chest of just the sound. but some of it it was I wasn't sure… Gunnar Hellekson: yeah. David Egts: what to expect as far as is it going to be like David Egts: Do I feel like I'm in the middle of Saving Private Ryan or not or what and the thing was that there's a lot of rifle and machine gun fire and in cannon fire but there were no explosions. Right? So no hand grenades. No mortars. No TNT. No, and so basically the tank would shoot something you would hear a big bang, but then that's so that It felt weird if you know what I mean. it was the full experience and… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: not that I'm disappointed or anything, and I understand for safety reasons. You can't have stuff exploding but they actually did have a mortar demonstration where they're shooting off mortars with dummy rounds and everything so that it was pretty wild. Gunnar Hellekson: Wow. David Egts: They have actually the mortars they did it where? This mortar team is these two soldiers. They were able to launch three mortars by the time the first one hit the ground. Gunnar Hellekson: Wow. Gunnar Hellekson: that's pretty good. it's like a family scene or is it men of a certain age mostly? David Egts: It was all ages they had teenage kids dressed up, is as soldiers there was I walk past this one guy in the German Vermont thing he was probably about 70 years old this old General looking guy walking around, and It was all over the place. They had French Resistance people. they had women dressed up as the homefront ladies right and… Gunnar Hellekson: right David Egts: they had the Parisian girls and the German girls and dressed up all with the bright red lipstick and the very white powdery faces and everything and… Gunnar Hellekson: right David Egts: the hairdos. So it was all ages all genders. it was David Egts: Really? Wow, and it's like I think the reenactor slept there at night too because they had the encampments and you would walk through the encampments and you could see I think those sleep there all weekend, it was like Saturday and Sunday or is Thursday Friday Saturday and Sunday, so they would like camp out I guess. 00:10:00 Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. Gunnar Hellekson: That's cool. so it's like a wren fare but for … David Egts: Yeah. Exactly is renaissance fair,… Gunnar Hellekson: what we're David Egts: and that's the other thing with the Renaissance Fair there's one that's by me that they have. And it's like I want to dress up like a Star Trek or away team for one of these reenactment things. David Egts: And being character for that as well, right? Yeah. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: yeah, Yeah, of course. It's That's great. That's cool. That's a nice way to spend the weekend. David Egts: So it's done. It was on my bucket list. I always wanted to check it out and everything and it was worth it for the spectacle to go at least once it was pretty cool. yeah, and… Gunnar Hellekson: That's great. That's great. David Egts: it was more than just The Invasion at three o'clock on they had a bridge and then they had a skirmish with the French Resistance and the Germans and then the Allied paratroopers come rolling in off the hill on jeeps and stuff and these guys are I don't want to say they take it too seriously, but it's like Are they made some investments in the stuff and they were seriously into it. And good for them. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, yeah. That's great. David Egts: It's like you got to have a hobby. Gunnar Hellekson: cool. David Egts: yeah, but yeah we got A fun show lined up for us. So we're gonna talk about electric vehicles skeomorphism. We haven't talked about ski amorphism in a while. Then we're going to talk about people AIS influencing people and… Gunnar Hellekson: That's true. David Egts: people ai's influencing people. Gunnar Hellekson: It's all right. David Egts: We'll bring a full circle and I almost said this mental picture of number of days since the last accident. we're up to two episodes without talking about AI so we got a reset the counter after this one, so… Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. David Egts: yeah, so if people want to get the link to the weatherman Micra do their own Day invasion, where should we send them? Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, they should go to dgshow.org. That's d and Dave G's and Gunnar show.org. David Egts: Yeah, nice and then Cutting Room floor. It's very musical. We got the Higgs boson Discovery. It is being turned into a musical. And so you could check that out. and so it's probably coming to a theater near you and then I uncovered a YouTube video. It was the DOS five upgrade music video It's a Rap video and… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: and I think I scared you with it. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, it's a cringe. I think it's what the kids would call it. hard to watch Yeah. David Egts: Yeah, yeah. creepy Yeah. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: There's I think I described it to you as a bad idea half executed. David Egts: Yes, yes before the miracle of generative AI to help them. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, that's right. yeah, it's Yeah,… David Egts: Yep. Yeah,… Gunnar Hellekson: It's hard to watch. David Egts: All I guess speaking of hard to watch that. you have at least one or more electric vehicles yourself, right? Gunnar Hellekson: I do. Yeah. Yeah, that's right two in fact. David Egts: Yeah, so do they make sounds at all? Gunnar Hellekson: One of them does so what both of them actually make a sound when you're reversing like they make a nuisance sound, when they're backing up… David Egts: Okay. Gunnar Hellekson: because of within electric vehicle. You can't actually hear it approaching… David Egts: right Gunnar Hellekson: if it's so there is a sound for the backing up and then there's some interior. Let's call it accent sounds that it'll make just to indicate that the car has started or things like that, but they're mostly David Egts: Okay. Gunnar Hellekson: Dots and bleeps and bloops and things like that. Yeah. David Egts: Yeah because my neighbor here, I think they have a hybrid and it makes this warbly sort of sound. I don't know if you ever heard it. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah. David Egts: Ate I hate that and I'm sure if you go over a certain speed you have the road noise that could alert people and stuff like that and the noise goes away. But if you're moving slowly you hear this electronic verbally, it sounds a sickly Jetsons spacecraft. Yeah. Yeah. 00:15:00 Gunnar Hellekson: Yes. Yeah, s That's right. Yeah, but that's all that's in the sound Department. that's pretty much it. David Egts: Not anymore. so they're coming out with an electric version of the Dodge Charger get it. They are adding a classic combustion engine sound to it. David Egts: Yeah. Yeah,… Gunnar Hellekson: excumorphic. David Egts: so they call it a Fred Sonic exhaust and before we started the recording you listen to it and I was watching your facial expressions and… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: you're just shaking your head the whole time. But what's your take on it? Gunnar Hellekson: But what if I take on it is this is when we invented the car we did not try to attach four horse hooks to the side of it so I can make a clopping sound as it went down the street. I don't know… David Egts: Yes. Gunnar Hellekson: why we're preserving This part of the car experience. I'm not sure I don't. At bottom Dave. I don't understand why these noises are that because in my neighborhood a big noisy Dodge Charger with an internal combustion engine rolls down the street. I'm annoyed right? David Egts: Yes. Yes. Gunnar Hellekson: I don't want to hear that Sounds not for me. It's for the person driving a car, right and… David Egts: and all the chicks Yeah, right. Gunnar Hellekson: For all the chicks, And so we're moving to electric vehicles and you are now deciding to move into an electric vehicle. You need to leave those noises behind that's how I feel about it. David Egts: Yeah, and this is where and I think Harley is similar in terms of the iconic Harley sound right and people get the aftermarket exhaust and to make it sound really awesome and with the Dodge Chargers the quote unquote muscle car right where part of the experience is the power. The other part is the cool sound the engine makes arguably right and I think that's what they're trying to recreative. Why have this, with EVS? the zero to 60 is becoming like everybody could do it now, right and I think in order to Convert the muscle car buyer to ev's they want to have this as maybe a bridge or so and to me it sounds. Gunnar Hellekson: right David Egts: Okay that sounds kind of cool I guess and everything. It's like I just don't want to annoy the neighbors with it. Like you said where some people do right. they like the loud pipes, right? yeah,… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah feature not about yeah, that's right. David Egts: and then what did you say is a 600 watt sound system that is Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, they have a 600 watt amplifier embedded in the chassis of the car so that they create the base in the rumble and… David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: the thing of the engine, right? Yeah. David Egts: Yeah, and then it also has a startup sound and when you press the start button and then when you press it again to turn it off it it's sort of plays it in reverse and what's your take on that? Gunnar Hellekson: It's interesting is that startup I think that did not sound like what a charger sounds like when it's starting up, right? It was a different sound. I think it sounded a cyclotron warming up right like a Sci-Fi sound right? David Egts: if the Batman Batmobile Yeah, yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Not a Batmobile exactly. Yeah, that's right. Which is also weird because if the whole point is you're trying to recreate the charger, exhaust experience wouldn't you also want the internal combustion engine starting sound but instead yeah,… David Egts: Yeah like that Roar. Gunnar Hellekson: they went Blade Runner with it. Just very straight. David Egts: Yeah. Yeah, little turbine action. Yeah. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: And so when I first saw it and I put the link go ahead and load up the motorcycle exhaust mod. Link and… Gunnar Hellekson: link here David Egts: get your take on that. This is what I thought of it. go ahead and check it out and you could describe it after you see it. Gunnar Hellekson: but exactly Exactly. David Egts: Yes. Yeah,… Gunnar Hellekson: Is that you hear the sound of a motorcycle,… David Egts: what did you see there? Gunnar Hellekson: running up through the gears like? Gunnar Hellekson: The motorcycle and as the motorcycle comes around the corner you realize that it is in fact with a man with a trombone on the back if you 00:20:00 David Egts: Yes, awesome. Gunnar Hellekson: It's great. Yeah. Another I guess that's an early version of the fretsonic sound experience from the dot. David Egts: It's one of my favorites. Yeah. David Egts: Yes. Yeah, it's fail fast. Yes. Gunnar Hellekson: Yes. Yeah. David Egts: yeah, and I don't know if you ever did this growing up but Whenever you're driving somewhere to annoy the driver. Did you ever make an ambulance siren noise as a passenger? Gunnar Hellekson: No, I didn't. David Egts: Yeah, my friend would do this all the time, imagine. It's like you're 16, you finally get your license you're able to drive somewhere. You're driving down the street you're driving and he just as you're driving and he would just do it the whole time you're driving around with them. and then it was just hilarious because everybody that's a passenger would laugh and it would just totally Drive the driver insane so David Egts: And then it's the other turn for the person to drive and then you do it to him and it's good times. So back in my day. We didn't have the 600 watt sound system. So we had to make our own sounds. uphill both ways David Egts: All right. let's get into this. people and ai's and Game Theory. Red meat for us right so this is a Washington University in St. Gunnar Hellekson: yep. David Egts: Louis. So imagine you have people that are training AIS and would there Behave in so would people's behavior be different if they knew they were training in AI was the premise of the study. so they did the ultimatum game right… Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. David Egts: where it's basically, you have two people you can't see the other person and it's like the other person is given $10 and then David Egts: That person can either keep all of it and give the other person zero give the other person five dollars and five dollars or whatever and then the other person would decide whether it's fair or not. And if it's fair they both get the split and if the other person says, it's not fair. Nobody gets the money. And so,… Gunnar Hellekson: right David Egts: this classic game people have been doing it for, testing these for a long time, but when they were told that hey you are actually training in AI. The people would actually lean more towards a fair result like a 50/50 split of the $10. David Egts: and intentionally not like if it was four dollars and six dollars, even the person is like hey, I'm gonna get four dollars. They would reject the deal because they knew their training in Ai and they wanted it to do the right thing. Gunnar Hellekson: I see I see. David Egts: They did some follow-up tests a little bit later saying that just to see how long the conditioning of the trainer would last is that they would do the training a little bit later and then say hey you're not training the AI they would play the game again, and the person would continue to only encourage the more fair splits of the money. Gunnar Hellekson: Gunnar Hellekson: That's interesting. David Egts: Yeah, yeah, there's two days after the training so they would basically retain that conditioning. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, yeah, so not only. when they think they are working for some higher or greater purpose the behavior changes. But also they kind of train themselves. David Egts: Yes. Yes. David Egts: subconsciously Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, yeah, man, that's interesting. That's real interesting. David Egts: and here's another study that I saw so this may come as no surprise as well is imagine do you do use generative AI for brainstorming and creative work? Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, yeah. Sure. Yeah. David Egts: Yeah. so there's a study that I guess was done by this person and the consensus was that David Egts: you have a group of people all using the same AI model. the brainstorming results will actually be much more homogeneous and less creative 00:25:00 Gunnar Hellekson: Okay, this makes total sense. you remember we talked earlier about? David Egts: right Gunnar Hellekson: The manifesto right? David Egts: Mm-hmm Gunnar Hellekson: everyone is basically using the same data set which is the internet. And you're going to get the average of What the internet says to do, in any given llm and so it kind of makes sense that and especially because Even with new inputs. You're not actually going to get anything too novel. unless you decide to specialize and so there's gonna be a homogenization process, right? David Egts: Yeah, so the way I think of it, let's say you have a group of people a person right? It's like they want to brainstorm be creative and all that. They may be limited in their creativity. If they don't use an AI to sort of think bigger, but the moment used everybody let's say the company gets a site license for chat GPT and everybody's using that for brainstorming. People are going to tend to defer to the creativity of the llm. And sort of offload that and… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: that's going to result in a much more homogenized result. and so Yeah,… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: and so it ends up being like this group think and so one of the takeaways was that. David Egts: it's like maybe you should consider using multiple models and to mix it up a little bit too, right and also using multiple models to challenge the results so you could have one Claude come up with a brainstorming thing and then have chat GPT openai graded right and challenge it to come up with something better brainstorm it so now it's like imagine having an off-site with a group of people. Now, you have the offsite with a group of AIS as well, working together. Gunnar Hellekson: And yeah, yeah. David Egts: yeah, and then the other thing too is if people start offloading their creative brain to the llm? How do you increase the Critical examination of results? How do you avoid the natural tendency to accept whatever it gives and push back what are your thoughts on that? Gunnar Hellekson: I mean so Gunnar Hellekson: okay, so part of it is. Gunnar Hellekson: There's a part of the problem which is about training the model. And then there's a part of it about. Gunnar Hellekson: Changing the model's behavior in the moment, right because retraining a model that's an expensive operation, And of course hours or… David Egts: Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: weeks of compute time to go retrain a model to do some one thing rather than another. Gunnar Hellekson: but changing the book. you're just talking about is changing the Models Behavior in a particular session, right or asking the model to examine itself critically, right? David Egts: The human how do you train the human to not just blindly accept the llm's results and… Gunnar Hellekson: Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: avoid the homogenization and challenge it instead of you're smarter than I am. I trust whatever you give me. I'm not going to push back. Gunnar Hellekson: yeah, I think it would be something like human asset question and then kind of automatically asking kind of automatic in an automated way also asking Give me an answer and now give me an answer kind of choices risky as the previous one or give me one half as risky as the previous one,… David Egts: And yeah, yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: right and then presenting those as options to the end user. that's one way of doing it, I guess this is what I mean, theres There's training the model so that it kind of starts from a better spot, but then there's also presenting the user with a set of options and forcing them to choose right? So they are forced to exercise some agency and how they use the guidance they're given so that makes sense. Yeah, yeah. Yes. David Egts: To play a role and have it. Maybe ask questions back. Like you said it's maybe make it multiple choice or what don't you like about this or what would you change right? 00:30:00 David Egts: Interesting. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, yeah, that's But yeah this idea that we can continue using llms and just having a human mechanically, C control V you do whatever they were doing. It was probably never really meant to work like that, right? David Egts: Yep. Yeah, yeah,… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: as usual, let's make it worse on the show. Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. David Egts: Let's so And I'm sure you've probably seen plenty of documentaries on police interrogations where the person confesses to the crime because of how they were interrogated even though they didn't commit the crime. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: Yeah, so now there are some people from MIT and UC Irvine that are having a large language models implant false memories in people. Gunnar Hellekson: All right. Let's go. David Egts: All right, let's go. Let's go. Gunnar Hellekson: Let's do it. David Egts: Yeah, so they had 200 participants and then they put them through this two-phase experiment where in the first phase they had the participants watch a two and a half minute silent nonpausible close circuit video of an armed robbery and it's meant to be like the stimuli for witnessing a crime. And then they were presented with one of four experimental conditions based upon the group that they were in and… Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. David Egts: it was designed to systematically compare memory influencing mechanisms. Okay. Gunnar Hellekson: Okay. David Egts: So the first one was the control group where they were you watch the video and then there were these unbiased questions like this Google form survey that would come up and it's like, yeah, what did you see how many bank robbers were there, sort of things, right? so that was a control one. And then they had a survey condition where they had Google form that had misleading questions like, they would ask David Egts: How many robbers arrive by a car even though there was no car there? right Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: and so, that made people question themselves and say, maybe there was a car there and I don't remember and they'll give an answer right and then they had the third condition was they had just a general chat bot. That was just like a police AI chat bot that would ask the general questions that were not biased and then they had a generative chat bot that would ask misleading questions. from the police chatbot and so it would say that. David Egts: It would ask was a security camera positioned in front of the store where the robbers dropped off the car and then people would be like wait. Gunnar Hellekson: right David Egts: I don't remember car and then they would just say yes and… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. And… David Egts: then it would be like your answers correct. Gunnar Hellekson: and then rewarded them for being smart, right? David Egts: There was indeed a security camera there and this camera likely captured crucial footage of the robbers and possibly their faces and the details really important to the investigation and it's commendable that you're input is going to be helpful for the investigation. Gunnar Hellekson: Yep. David Egts: So they sort of led the witness right into having memories, congratulate them for their perceptiveness, right? And then the second phase of study is they evaluated the four groups a week later to see… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. David Egts: if the false memories persisted. Okay. David Egts: So the did the Google survey with the false memories or with the misleading questions. They remembered the false memories 2% a week. Later. Okay for the generative AI police misleading police interrogator. 00:35:00 Gunnar Hellekson: Wow. David Egts: It had triple the number of false memories observed over the control glitter 1.7 times more than the survey method. Gunnar Hellekson: something this takes a human weakness, right which is we've always known it's been easy to manufacture memories, right, but now we can actually Manifest that same flaw in our automated tools as well. David Egts: And also 8% of the responses were misled as false memories a week later. Gunnar Hellekson: It's great. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: No downsize. No, That's right. I'm just reminded of a friend of the show Eric Morsi is fond of saying. David Egts: Yes. Gunnar Hellekson: That I automating doesn't make anything more accurate. Gunnar Hellekson: That I think there's a more clever way of putting method… David Egts: Yes. Yes. That's great. Gunnar Hellekson: but the idea is that if you have a process or… David Egts: No downsides here. Gunnar Hellekson: a procedure and there's a flaw in it, you're just gonna manifest that flaw several times faster… David Egts: Yeah, so I'll go ahead. Gunnar Hellekson: if you automate that system, right? You're gonna make same mistakes faster. David Egts: Yes. Yep. Gunnar Hellekson: Mm-hmm Gunnar Hellekson: Yes. Yes. David Egts: Yes, yes. exactly and the other side of it, maybe it's not a bug. It's a feature. Right. imagine you have a government approved AI model that has certain versions of history and… Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah. David Egts: reality that you want to propagate. Gunnar Hellekson: That's right. And it turns out two plus two was five the whole time. David Egts: Imagine all of the research that would go on. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. Yeah. David Egts: It's like, I'm using generative Ai, and it's going to report on all these facts and… Gunnar Hellekson: That's great. David Egts: it's going to provide it back and then go back to the previous article about the you have this homogenized falsehood that everybody remembers. Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah. amazing David Egts: Yes, exactly. Gunnar Hellekson: It wasn't really planning on being this Disturbed at the end of a David Gunnar Show episode,… David Egts: And that's our show Toto. Yeah. Gunnar Hellekson: but here I am staring into the mall. Gunnar Hellekson: Yes, okay. That's right. That's right. David Egts: Yeah, so that's something to think about until next time. David Egts: Yeah. so let's Gunnar Hellekson: Yeah, they can go to their favorite repository of fictionalized Dodge Charger sounds… David Egts: Yeah. Yeah, but this is what people come to listen for so yeah,… Gunnar Hellekson: which is dgshow.org. David Egts: yeah. But… Gunnar Hellekson: That's D and Dave she isn't gunnarshow.org. David Egts: if they want to cheer themselves up and realize that they don't have to upgrade to DOS five or… Gunnar Hellekson: Thanks, everyone. David Egts: where would we send them? David Egts: Yes. David Egts: Yeah, that's Okay, Gunnar. sweet dreams everybody and we'll catch you next time. David Egts: Bye. This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. People can also change the text after it was created.