Blake Chapman (00:00:01) - Welcome to the G. E. M. Series, powered by Rocket level. On this podcast, we empower entrepreneurs to succeed by setting big goals, executing like a pro, and having a fearless mindset. The G. E. M. Series is all about investing in yourself. We're here to share the path to getting what you want out of life by sharing the stories of entrepreneurs who have done this themselves, providing thorough research from our team on what careers and habits are yielding the best results, and discussing the mindset it takes to overcome the obstacles that all future entrepreneurs will face. Investing in yourself starts with putting in the work every single day, and this podcast is here to help you do exactly that. My name is Blake Chapman. I'm the Vice President of the Ambassador Program here at Rocket Level, and I'm thrilled to be your host for the G. E. M. series. Blake Chapman (00:00:49) - Everybody. This is, uh, I've got HB on the show today, HB Pasley. It's a pleasure to have you on. I, uh, I've been doing lots of listening to podcasts. You've been on, uh, stalking you on YouTube, stalking you on LinkedIn, and, uh, I'm H.B. Pasley (00:01:03) - Sorry. I'm sorry. Blake Chapman (00:01:05) - Hey, I, uh, I gotta say, you know, I'm already picking up a lot of lessons and I think that you know, you're a perfect fit to, to bring on for our, our show today. So thank you so much for making the time. Um, how are you doing? H.B. Pasley (00:01:16) - It's great to be here. Uh, I'm actually seated in Alabama today. My family is, uh, here. I'm from the South originally now my wife, uh, and my two sons, we've spent the last 22 years in Colorado. I live in Colorado Springs. Uh, but it's, uh, it's fun. I've always liked spending time Blake with people who love helping people. It's a special class of human who takes time and energy and tries to put it into others. And I noticed that your podcast and the conversations you've been leading really care about helping other people. So I just hope to contribute, uh, one thing over the course of this two-and-a-half-hour podcast, Blake Chapman (00:01:55) - It's actually, uh, five and a half hours. So excellent. H.B. Pasley (00:02:00) - The reason it's so long kids is that they have to, they have to record long enough to capture something worthwhile. So you're getting the trimmed-down focused stuff. Blake Chapman (00:02:10) - Well, I, uh, you know, I'm, I'm sure you have all kinds of, uh, tactical insights, and I, I bet we get something in the first 10 minutes, you know? Um, but, uh, hb that's, uh, that's cool to hear that you're also a fellow, uh, south Easterner. I'm over here. I've always been in, uh, in Georgia, uh, in, you know, I grew up in a small town living in, in Atlanta, but, um, I wanted to hear a little bit more, maybe what was, uh, yeah, what was growing up like, because you were born in, in Alabama, as you said, and I, I heard somewhere you were one of the youngest lifeguards ever in, uh, in Alabama. I think I came across now somewhere too, right? No, H.B. Pasley (00:02:49) - I just, I often mention that as the, uh, you know, everybody when they're starting out, uh, has inception moments, places where they discover what they love, what they don't love. Sometimes it's trauma, sometimes it's success. Uh, I, I did get my lifesaving a couple of months before I was, I legally should have had it, but I had a, a, a relative who put me through the training before my birthday, which for me was like, and, uh, I got my first job at the Y M C A in Prattville, Alabama. I think my mom had to drop me off, like she was dropping me off at school, right? I couldn't even drive yet to get there. And, uh, I discovered something about myself that summer. I thought sitting in the lifeguard chair and spinning the whistle and looking sexy would like to be my destiny. And of course, you know, that was part of my, my destiny, Blake. But looking back over those two summers, the thing that I, I remembered is how much fun it was to teach swimming lessons. I was in the pool every morning from like eight to 12 with kids of all different ages, and I was practicing that fine art of helping people through crisis moments. But as I look back, I think the re, the, reason I was good quickly is I'm the kid who, though his dad was a lifeguard and a strong swimmer, failed beginner swimming lessons four times. H.B. Pasley (00:04:10) - I mean, well, I had panic attacks when I was a kid. So, yeah, if some sort of an empathy thing happened where I could understand, once I got through that, that fear, right, once I got through the barrier that was in my brain, I was able to see that look on other kids' faces and help them through that moment. And that's really how I remember the first part of my life when I realized coaching was sort of not something I did as just something that I was mm-hmm. Blake Chapman (00:04:37) - . Yeah. And, you know, it, it, it makes a lot of sense. You know, I mean, I think that's so powerful that you're like, I, you know, was having a panic attack. It took me four times to, to pass through it because, you know, if you're going through the, if you're going through, uh, freaking out in the pool over there, probably the last person that you, that could bring you, I don't know. You don't know that for sure, I guess. But it's a lot harder to bring comfort to somebody if you haven't been there yourself, you know? Cuz they'll be like, well, I just, I don't know that, uh, you quite relate to what I'm going to because you're, uh, you're somebody who, your parents threw you in the pool as a baby, and you started doing, uh, perfectly perfect, uh, perfect swimming right away, you know, so mm-hmm. perfect H.B. Pasley (00:05:19) - Butterfly. Blake Chapman (00:05:20) - I, I was trying to think of a good, uh. H.B. Pasley (00:05:22) - That's right. I suffered, I think more from stagefright, like, uh, the crowd. It's funny that in my career for the next decades of my life, I stood in front of hundreds and thousands of people writing music, performing, uh, speaking, and working in public. It, it's like, you would never have put money on me when I was a kid, cuz I was so freaked out by the masses, by, you know, faces looking at you. And then sure enough that became, uh, central, uh, to my journey. But you're right, though, empathy, the ability to get in somebody else's shoes, the people that you care for, is probably the secret sauce that the best advisors that I know, um, tap into that, which seems to be more important than that list of expert skills that you have. Cuz I work, I work with nerds Blake, and they all have powerful, genius nerd skills. And, nerds often wanna lean on that genius. Uh, and what happens is, they miss the opportunity to make deeper connections with the people that they're talking to. Cuz, it's all about empathy and hearing somebody else's story, not just bringing up your superpowers. But, you know, I guess I'm, I took off there. Yeah, Blake Chapman (00:06:32) - No, absolutely. You know, it kind of made me think too, cuz I was like, so after you had this experience as a lifeguard and you this, when did this epiphany come to you? And like, did that lead into, you know, your next jobs or, uh, you know, and, and was that something you kind of took into consideration pretty quickly once you learn that about yourself? H.B. Pasley (00:06:54) - Well, I think what happens is, in my journey, I was not that smart. Like, I take usually three times hitting my head on the same problem before I actually learn the lesson, uh, And so I was a slow learner. So retrospectively, as you get older, you start to put these things together, especially if you learn that your own story is the seat or the foundation of your authenticity. People throw around the word authenticity or being authentic a lot. Uh, and it kind of, it, it honestly, sometimes it confuses me the way people use the word. Here's what I do know, if your mission in life isn't connected to your actual story, you cannot be authentic. So I sort of discovered that slowly. I would say my next major step really in my journey, was going to college. I went to Sanford in Birmingham, Alabama, and by then I was already interested in something. H.B. Pasley (00:07:48) - My dad was an accountant, my mom was like an executive, uh, office, you know, a gal who took care of everything. And so I had very conservative, straightforward parents. Well, I was interested not only in the liberal arts and music and writing, but I was also interested in ministry. One of my mentors coming up was my youth pastor at my little church. And what I learned in that space was that loving other people was, was a very powerful art. And it sort of consumed a lot of my energy. So I went to college actually thinking about that kind of stuff, joined a music group, uh, cuz I've always been creative in that arena. And the guy leading this music group, I thought we were just gonna do maybe normal, I don't know, church music or so, because I kind of knew that stuff. He booked a concert at a juvie hall. And here's, so here's a bunch of, basically we're, it's a white ensemble from a private Christian school playing for 200 black kids on the west side of Birmingham. And, it was one of the worst concerts ever performed. Blake Chapman (00:08:52) - Yeah. How did I want a quick play-by-play? How did that? H.B. Pasley (00:08:58) - It was bad. Wait, the jokes were bad. Then, the music didn't fit. The kids were thankful that we were there. Now you could tell that, like, they were like, oh, you know, just having somebody who cares. That was powerful. But we didn't know, we didn't know how to, how to build that bridge. We, had the heart, to love on him and to help him, but we didn't have the tool. So we get out of this deal. I, I can see the look on the chaplain's face. He's relatively disappointed. , H.B. Pasley (00:09:23) - He expected more. We get out in the parking lot. And I remember my colleagues, uh, turning to the guy who was leading it, a guy named Greg Nicholson, great guy, spent his life in Thailand still there. And, uh, everybody was like, Hey, whose idea was this? We should never do that again. And Blake, I spent the next 35 years of my life trying to do that better. I could not get it out of my head. So I, I literally, but I began, that's when I began to write music and create messaging that I thought would better suit that environment. And, uh, that's how I, that's how I kicked off my career. And literally for over three decades, I was trying to figure out how do, how do I create messaging that people who are in need can hear and that they can act on. And how do I just bridge that gap, you know? So, that would, that's probably defined more about how I spent a lot of my adult life. Uh, until recently. I just recently moved into professional advising as a business advisor and business coach. There's, Blake Chapman (00:10:23) - You know, I feel like there's a lot of overlap there too, between, you know, the impact of what you were trying to do with your music and what you're doing right now. Everything kind of builds to, builds to that moment. I was, uh, yeah, I, I, I absolutely love music, and I, whenever I saw you had a musical background, I was like, all right, I'll try not to talk your ears off too much about it. Um, but that was something that I was, sorry about. Do, H.B. Pasley (00:10:46) - Do you play an instrument? Blake Chapman (00:10:47) - Yeah, yeah. I do. I do. Um, I love, uh, I, I I make like singer-songwriter music and, uh, you know, do some production in my house and stuff like that. It's me, uh, it's my second, my second love, you know. Awesome. H.B. Pasley (00:11:01) - And, uh, awesome. Blake Chapman (00:11:03) - Yeah. So whenever I saw that you were doing, I was like, not only were you involved in like, uh, you know, all kinds of, you know, performances and production. I also saw something about, you know, you were even creating like analog tone. I read that on there, um, and H.B. Pasley (00:11:18) - You really did stalk me. Very good. By the way, for any guest show, if you're guesting on Blake's show, you better be ready. Cuz this guy does his research, he's gonna know stuff that's going on. It's, it might've come from that same logic. So even though, I was a leader in what we would call the small boutique or gorilla warfare nonprofit sector for a long time, a lot of people don't realize that the smaller nonprofits basically are just small businesses. They run like businesses. You still budget, plan, and pursue, you have to message to focus your offerings. You know, uh, in the nineties, my wife and I toured together, I, I booked and we, uh, we uh, we performed about 120 550 concerts a year for six, seven years. That's not the product of the internet age. I'd like to remind you that, uh, Al Gore had not invented the internet in the nineties. H.B. Pasley (00:12:11) - . Yeah. And so it was old school, you had to get on the phone and you played a concert. You had to call the host back and go, Hey, did you enjoy it? Was it good? How could we improve? Who else do you think might enjoy what we were doing? And that old school, what people might call a sales approach, I just call, I just thought of it as a relationship building, right? I had to get a referral, I had to get feedback, I had to get better. And we just booked and booked and booked and booked, uh, those concerts. And over the years, when you're doing that sort of gorilla warfare, Blake to analog tone, I didn't miss your question, by the way. No, no. What you start doing is you start solving the problems that are in front of you. Blake Chapman (00:12:50) - Hmm. H.B. Pasley (00:12:51) - At least that, that's the way that I'm built. I, I needed to solve problems that were in front of me. One of the problems that I had was, um, back in the nineties and early two thousand, it was digital tools were coming online so that you could record at home. Like right now, it's crazy. You, our computers are so powerful, you can just do anything. Back then it was hard to get the tone. It was hard to get the sound. It was hard to feel like you were getting a nice professional sound on home gear or computers because they weren't quite up to speed. So, uh, I had fallen in love with how music sounded in the sixties and seventies when everything was analog and going to tape. And they used, you know, tubes and stuff like that. So I actually, yeah, I did some research and I actually found out that I could add, I don't want to get too nerdy, but transformers are one of these very physical tools that changes electricity from a certain value to another value. H.B. Pasley (00:13:45) - And when that happens, it also can, in the audio world, impart a little sound or a little warmth, a little interest. And I was so fascinated by it that I did actually, uh, invent a little circuit that created something very easy for the small, small business musicians to use. And, uh, I had a lot of fun promoting and connecting that with some professionals over a few years. Um, that business is no longer alive. You won't find analog tone.com out there. We didn't move enough products for me to create a saleable business. That would've been nice. Um, but like you, I had, I always have a few too many irons in the fire, Blake Chapman (00:14:24) - I relate to that. H.B. Pasley (00:14:27) - Yeah. So, it never became my primary, but it was really fun to invent a thing, make a thing that might help somebody else. And I think that's kind of the predictable nature of my journey at this point. Yeah. Blake Chapman (00:14:39) - Well, I mean, as an, as an entrepreneur, uh, it's so important, I think, to be able to take a step back and look at things from a bigger picture and realize that there are so many missions that probably fit into something that would achieve helping somebody else. You know, and this is just another example of, uh, of that. I was curious, I won't go off on too much of a tangent and just talk about analog tone, but is it a, is it a blue box? Is that what it's it was, H.B. Pasley (00:15:07) - There was a Blake Chapman (00:15:08) - There, yeah. I was like, there was that thing. It looks great. I love the look of it. I might, I saw one on Reverb before our call, and I was like, I might have to pick one up and, uh, maybe HBO would get a kick out of that. I'll, I'll try it out. That, H.B. Pasley (00:15:19) - That's very funny that those things are still floating around. I made a couple of small ones that were desktop and I made, I made a rack mount unit that had had eight circuits in it, but there were very few of those couple shipped to Europe. It was just, it was weird and interesting. You know, I I, it comes down to probably something that I was learning then that I didn't actually master. I don't know if I've mastered it yet either, but I, I was just learning, uh, that we have to understand the people that we're serving and get really, really focused on that particular group. Because nobody can afford the time and energy to just spread your message everywhere. And the more focused you get, the more fun. It's kinda like limitation itself brings more power and more energy to what we're doing. Um, with that in mind, I hope you don't mind, this is, uh, gratuitous. I'm gonna turn it around on you. I'd love to find out, as you guys have been working on the podcast, you've been working on your messaging. Uh, how would you put in a short paragraph, your picture of your ideal listener, the people that you think are getting the absolute most out of this podcast, and who you love messaging to? Who are those people? How do you describe them? Blake Chapman (00:16:30) - You know, that's, uh, that's a wonderful question. That's something that I think we chew on quite a bit over here. And I, uh, I'm always wondering that, and I found that it, it, it goes pretty, it goes pretty broad, but I do notice that there are a few things in common. Um, you know, in terms of like broad categories, absolutely. Like business coaches all day long. I want to, I love talking to business coaches and getting to, uh, you know, introduce them to messages of other people. But I would say, um, our listeners typically somebody that is, uh, has some sort of an entrepreneurial spirit, um, a desire to find some sort of way towards financial freedom and, you know, generally values, uh, is hungry for autonomy like all of us are. Um, and, and, and I'd say beyond that, it's also somebody that, uh, is looking at life today and imagining what life could be like, uh, you know, one year down the road, two years down the road, if they made a few small adjustments to become a better version of themselves. Do you know? So that's very Blake Chapman (00:17:35) - Powerful. You know, I, and, and, and because that's who I am, you know, that's, uh, that's somebody that, uh, and, and so I, I hope that that message comes through with this podcast and, you know, guests like you are always, uh, you know, you're, you, you, you aid this mission, you know, in, in such a powerful way. So it's always wonderful to get to talk to guys like you. And, um, you know, uh, my, I, I couldn't, I can't complain over here. You know, my life's been good getting to get to meet all these wonderful people like yourself and share that message with our listeners. So thanks for asking me that, H.B. Pasley (00:18:08) - Blake. I, too love that conversation about who, not only who we love, but who we're magic with. And you just said something I think is very cool. I've yet to find, uh, because I work with advisors, okay, a lot of financial advisors, people, and professional services, I find that whoever they are, whatever they love, whatever is their story, their driver, and I, then I take their favorite clients. If we can put them into like, a bowl and look at them, they share so much in terms of value story drivers and what interests them that I can, I can almost look at either one of those first and know what the other one's gonna be. I can look at your best clients and I'll know who you are. Or I can look at you and your team for a little while and I know exactly who your best clients are gonna be. Mm-hmm. , my job though is to help each business owner discover that for themselves. I can't just tell them cuz Well, that's no fun. Yeah. Um, and when we discover stuff for ourselves, it means more to us and it becomes valuable. So, Blake Chapman (00:19:09) - No, that's, that's wonderful. And I think that's like, just so true. How did you, yeah. How did you get to a point, um, cause kind of like you mentioned about yourself takes me a while to get to epiphanies, and I have to hit my head three times too to, to have these things happen. So, you know, tell me a little bit about getting to, uh, you know, that, that kind of conclusion about, about people. I mean, these are, these are deep truths that I think are essential once people can actually realize, you know, how relationships operate, you know, H.B. Pasley (00:19:43) - Mm-hmm. , I, and you know, like you and like me, we, we've often assembled our best wisdom from people in our journeys, not from books. Now books are important, but they don't quite do the same thing that a person does when they put their hand on your shoulder. They're talking to you specifically about your stuff and asking you hard questions. Okay. Nothing replaces personal interaction, mentorship, and one-on-one human connection. Okay. So I remember, uh, it's been many years, might be 20 years ago, I was talking to my friend David Shirk, who's a very good mentor of mine. When we started talking about personal gravity, the idea that every human, is like a celestial body, right? , I always think, I like to think about myself as having a heavenly body. You should ask Robin, my wife about that. But all heavenly bodies have enough weight in them to attract. H.B. Pasley (00:20:34) - And there are two questions implied in that, does your life have enough weight, purpose, and focus to actually attract? And then who you attract is, uh, it's a polarity issue. It's those who are like you, they, there's something that you're resonating with. And, uh, I, I would say I've been, you know, I've been chewing on that a few decades, so I've been working on that, been chewing on that for a couple of decades. It was when I stepped into financial advising that I was, I was enjoying the sport of being an advisor. But as I was looking around, I was realizing that every advisor is actually running a small business. They're developing trust. They're trying to deliver very important life messages to people of all different shapes and sizes. Some are ready to hear that message, some are not okay, some have big goals, and some may not. And I, I watched this happen and I realized, oh, I see this personal gravity thing in play here. I see that, yeah, this type of advisor attracts this kind of client and they do better together. And I realize there's no one way to build an advisory profession. And it's certainly ham-handed to the nth degree for anybody who's in the financial services, just to feel like they should just run around trying to chase people at high financial brackets. Mm-hmm. H.B. Pasley (00:21:56) - That's just dumber than an Osaka hammer. Yeah. I mean, I get that. Uh, I get that capacity has to be there to need a financial advisor, but there was so much more I thought that advisors could put into their personal gravity development, uh, that had to do with their story and their drivers and the stuff that made them unique that, and they could leverage that. So that's why I started the business called Ideal Client Experience because I wanted to help, uh, two things roll out immediately get ahold of yourself so you can know who your ideal client is, I e authenticity, and then secondly, learn how to make the entire process about them and not about you. That's where the experience part comes in. And it turns out that message was received so energetically from my peers that my coaching practice launched, uh, almost accidentally as I began to process this with others, they were like, please, let's spend more time working on this together. And I was like, please, I will be happy to, if you pay me. Yeah. Blake Chapman (00:22:57) - Let's H.B. Pasley (00:22:57) - Go Blake Chapman (00:22:59) - Make this my livelihood. Yeah. And H.B. Pasley (00:23:01) - It was more fun. I liked financial advising cuz it was a very, it's a, it's a wonderful art and it's a very, uh, admirable sport and some very good people are in that field, but I was more interested in helping more advisors become great. And so I left actual financial advising. I do not do that any longer. And I just, uh, primarily I work on helping advisors build better, more healthy practices using that ideal client experience process. Blake Chapman (00:23:28) - Yeah. You know, and, and that is, uh, such a powerful shifting point too, because I feel like, you know when you're trying to realize where you can make the biggest impact, it sounds like you had a had some time to sit there and experience maybe some of the items of around financial advising that were, uh, overly clinical or, um, you know, un generally unpleasant. And at the end of the day, financial advising is like, uh, deeply personal, you know, or it's, uh, to the point where, you know, I feel like there's, you have to be, there's a lot of room to make somebody feel very, uh, important, sound comfortable, and, uh, get them to a position where they're, you're not just, uh, seeing people leave, leave from your left and right. And it sounds like, uh, that's, that's kind of been the mission you've been on for the, for some time now. Blake Chapman (00:24:25) - And, uh, I don't know. That gets me, uh, that gets me really excited because I think in younger years, even when I think about being, like going to a financial advisor, obviously, oh, you're gonna, I don't know, the stigma around it is, you might even be like, oh, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna go have to, before you know, anything in, you're a kid, you're like, I'll have to go to these Wolf of Wall Street esque people and, they're gonna rip me to shreds and, uh, and hopefully I'll make a few bucks. Do you know? So it's nice to humanize the practice for, the general public, Hey, you know, H.B. Pasley (00:24:54) - That's an extremely common sentiment. I, and I think you should have n no shame or, uh, feel, uh, singled out. Most people feel like when you're gonna meet with an expert, the sense is you're gonna feel dumb because they're smart. Everybody comes into it that way. Uh, I, and I think that's kind of part of the course. So, uh, advisors, when they're, when they're smart and really when they care for human beings, it, they let that be known right at the top. So what, I have three steps. I'll, maybe I'll just mention one today o on how to choose a great advisor. Cuz you're gonna be a little nervous. So here's step one. Step one is, is not just so you know, it's not checking out their resume, it's not knowing their certifications, it's not arguing about the word fiduciary. It's not, it's really not any technical weird stuff. It's when you sit down with 'em for the first time, all you need to do is in your, on the notes of your page, just note how many questions they ask about your life. H.B. Pasley (00:25:52) - You need that, that first conversation needs to be so much about you that it is actually noticeable that they want to know about you, they want to hear about you. They wanna know why you want to do this and why you love that and why you're afraid of that. If you sit with an advisor and you can feel that deep resonant interest, they're not just reading a script, but they really want to know who you are. You just crossed 80% of the great advisor gauntlet and you probably have the right person. Okay, step one, is it all about you or does the advisor make it about them and their practice? If you feel the latter, I would advise you to continue interviewing potential advisors until you sit with that person who makes it and makes you feel like it's all about you. Blake Chapman (00:26:35) - That's, you know, and that's in, that's incredible, uh, incredible advice, you know, because I do feel like if you're partnering up with somebody that is, uh, just running down a, running down a form with you and filling it out, then I don't know, there's. I just can't see you, uh, building, building a relationship out of something, something like that. Um, I had one note on here of something I wanted to ask you about a little bit, just because I've noticed that, you know, you've, you've talked a lot about failure over the years and, and being able to navigate through that and, uh, you know, the power of vulnerability and that just really, I don't know, just really resonated with me. Um, I think vulnerability in particular is a superpower in anything you're trying to do. Uh, it's, uh, I think it's your, your, your biggest advocate because it does align with what your origin story is and your motivations. Uh, so yeah, tell me a little bit about, you know, your relationship with, uh, with, with failure and, and what kind of, I dunno. Sometimes it's hard to be vulnerable, you know, so H.B. Pasley (00:27:39) - No, helping me in it is hard to be vulnerable. Well, and it is it is true that I feel like I've made an Olympic sport out of messing everything up, uh, more than one time. Uh, cuz I am a slow learner. Um, you know, I, this is funny. This comes from two different sides of my life. But, um, and it just came to my mind. I don't often talk about it this way, but coming up because, I did take on leadership roles, okay? I was, uh, holding the microphone off and on the stage, or I was leading a team, or I was getting hired to do things with people who are in leadership. Um, I hope this doesn't come off as cynical or negative, but I also learned very quickly that the leadership class can have a powerful butt spirit. I didn't wanna say Blake Chapman (00:28:28) - , H.B. Pasley (00:28:28) - It's on your podcast, but I just said it. You Blake Chapman (00:28:30) - Can H.B. Pasley (00:28:31) - I'll that disclaimer. But there, there was this sort of propensity and, and what I, you, you start to sort this out, you start, Blake Chapman (00:28:40) - So a number of, you have probably seen the words rocket level thrown around a little bit here and there. And I wanted to take a moment just to explain what that is. So the G. E. M. series comes from rocket level, uh, who is somebody that I work with directly. And Rocket Level is a marketing technology company that specializes in meeting the unique needs of small and medium-sized businesses. So over the years, through strategic collaborations with national brands, franchise groups, and local partners, rocket Level has become a trusted ally for SMBs operating in the market. And right now, rocket level's primary focus is to provide a comprehensive range of marketing solutions for SMBs, including website development, SEO paid ads, email marketing, social media management, and just about anything you can think of by offering a done-for-you approach. Rocket level takes care of all aspects of digital marketing, allowing SMBs to focus on their core business operations. Blake Chapman (00:29:38) - I know that everybody talks about this all the time. It's so hard to focus on the fulfillment side of things and been an absolute honor getting to partner with rocket level throughout the years and be able to see them provide a solution for people that maybe don't, don't have the talent right now, maybe don't have the time and maybe don't have the playbook or the tools available. It truly is buttoned up in such a way that you can give somebody your high-level objectives and get this stuff knocked out. So if you're curious, you should definitely, definitely give us a shout. H.B. Pasley (00:30:07) - You start to sort this out, you start to feel it like, well, I like this guy over here, but when he gets into that position, he acts crazier. This woman is very kind, but when she's in leadership, she's just, this is not, and what I realized was that they just like, I fails beginner swimming lessons four times and then that empathy helped me be a good coach. I realized that when I was accused of, cuz I was of being a real, somebody who didn't respect others, who couldn't listen to others, what I was doing is I was, I was royally failing because I was insecure. Insecurity is an awareness that you're not up to spec, but instead of talking about not being up to spec, you hide it, you overachieve, you talk more, you get bossy, and you do anything to shield yourself. So, what I realized was most of the leaders that annoyed me were just as insecure as me. H.B. Pasley (00:31:00) - No different, but they were trying to hide it in some kind of a shell. And that shell created, um, intolerable leadership style, bad culture, and frankly short tenure. And that, so this, this is kind of the dark side of this mountain, okay? Uh, and what I think it taught me was, and it pressed it on me, uh, quickly, was hb, if you're going to get better, if you're gonna heal from your own tendency to want to hide your failures and, and panic and freak out when you don't feel sufficient, you're gonna have to do the opposite. It's like George Costanza's opposite day on, uh, Seinfeld. Blake Chapman (00:31:41) - Oh my gosh. Uh, H.B. Pasley (00:31:44) -, do you remember? That's a great reference Blake Chapman (00:31:47) - Episode maybe two months ago. So, oh, hilarious. , H.B. Pasley (00:31:51) - This is great. Just do the thing that you, or the opposite of what you feel like you should do. So what we feel like we should do is as a buffer and push people back and then, um, show our best hand at all times. I've learned that, that when I'm in my best leadership modality, I'm actually, uh, talking about the things that I'm afraid of. I'm, I'm bringing two other people's attention, things that I failed at and the things that I'm weak at. And the more I do that I realize that, I'm building a better human connection. People can relate to failure more than they relate to success. I don't know why, but that's just how we're built. And I'm able then to create a team environment instead of a meet you or us them an environment in leadership. And, uh, we could, by the way, we could do a series of podcasts on this process. H.B. Pasley (00:32:43) - Hey, maybe we could, I'm with you, Yeah. Well, I think vulnerability is that superpower, but you, you have to have something. You have to have the courage to help you be vulnerable. You can't just say out loud, vulnerability's cool and then get there. You have to have this story from me. You have to see this in your mind and go, okay, if I want to get better at leadership, HB and Blake are saying, I'm gonna have to learn how to share some of my frailties and some of my weaknesses with those people that I'm leading. And that, that actually isn't a negative, that actually is a positive exponentially. Absolutely. And the ground is, the ground is not gonna slip out from under you. The judgment team is not gonna come, uh, you know, throw you away and rip the tags off your mattresses and tell you that you failed. That was the mattress police by the way. You know, you, you're gonna be okay. And, I think it's time for everybody, to say today, like today and this week, what's one thing I could do with my team that would reveal a little bit of my weak suit instead of my strong suit? How could I confess that in a way to just be available to them and say, I struggle with that too? Yeah, this would be a great week for that. Might as well do it this week. Blake Chapman (00:33:52) - I completely agree. I completely agree. Well, yeah, I mean, your relatability goes through the roof as soon as you just take like the smallest risk with, with, uh, with your team in, in that way. And that, and it's, I I shouldn't even say because I don't even think it's a risk. You know, I think it's, uh, it's an opportunity that you, ha you know, have waiting for you at, at this exact moment. You know, whenever you're deciding to let people in just a little bit. So is this something that you, you end up Sorry, go. I was gonna say, is this something No. Something you end up coaching, uh, some of your Yes. Folks on, yeah. H.B. Pasley (00:34:25) - Yes, I do. Matter of fact, one of the first things that I work with advisors, on is, uh, even though they want to talk about, uh, winning the best clients and retaining those clients, everybody wants to talk about that in the advisory profession. You could be an attorney, uh, an accountant, you could be a nonprofit development leader if you're you're a trust builder. Okay, everybody wants to talk about those two things, and I'll get there. It's important, it's central to my practice. But the first thing we do is I say, well, tell me a story about early in your life when you failed or succeeded and you learned something important about yourself. Okay? You asked me twice today, um, to answer a certain question about myself. And I told two stories and both of the stories warmed up and immediately went through a failure. H.B. Pasley (00:35:14) - Okay? So if you go back and listen to the tape and you listen to my storytelling, you'll hear that I'm telling a story about myself. But in both cases, I failed. And the failure was what gave rise to an opportunity to learn something new. And I like it when my overconfident super jealous financial advisor, and clients, find a couple of stories about failure as quickly as they can. I love stories about great mentors as well. And I love great stories about successes when we were young. I mean, they're all important, but that is part of my coaching practice. Can you tell a story that lets me know something about you and then connect that to what you do today? Cause if you can, if you, again, if you can connect your story with your mission magic sauce heck yeah. Blake Chapman (00:36:02) - You better believe it. That's, that is the magic sauce. You know, I mean, I think that's, uh, that's something that needs to cut into the working culture in general because, uh, I, I can't tell you how many people are, you know, uh, probably having to hide themselves a bit, right? And, uh, and, and that just, uh, there's a friction to that that wears you down to nothing over time, you know? And, uh, I, H.B. Pasley (00:36:27) - Oh my God, try that for a few years and see how that works out for you. I did. Yeah. Blake Chapman (00:36:31) - Yeah. You, H.B. Pasley (00:36:32) - You just die. You die internally before you're, you quit before everybody's ready to fire you. Blake Chapman (00:36:38) - . Yeah. Cause that's the hard thing, right? You, cause you have a sense, you're like, you're like, I, you know what's going, you know, you kind of know what's going on inside. And, uh, no, it totally, totally drains you. Um, but I think that's so powerful that you're taking the time to share that with people. And, uh, that's something I hope everybody does take that challenge this week. I, uh, I I really love that. Um, so a little bit of my, uh, my, my deep diving here. I also saw that uh, you know, you, you mentioned, uh, interest in like coffee, cigars, minimalism. And what has stood out to me is, um, the greater mission obviously is helping people, but also it seems like, you know, on the other side of that statement where you mentioned those things, you talked about other items where you're like, I don't know a ton about pop culture and, and you know, things like that. And I'm kind of like that too. Um, and maybe I'm just putting my own lens on this, but do you find that there are things that are really novel to you that just uniquely spike your curiosity? Um, and then how, how does your brain work? I guess I'm kind of, I'm kind of curious, stuff like that. You know, I know that's a big question. Speaker 4 (00:37:48) - . It's very scary, how does your brain work? How does your brain, H.B. Pasley (00:37:52) - It's very scary. Blake Chapman (00:37:53) - How does your brain work? Podcast Speaker 4 (00:37:55) - Question. Blake Chapman (00:37:56) - Sorry. H.B. Pasley (00:37:56) - You know, that's very, I was just talking to somebody the other day who, um, was having trouble knowing how to, uh, be a host of a party like h hb. How do I pull people together to do this thing? Because he's come to several things that my wife and I have hosted. And he is like, well, how do you do it? And I said, well, okay, step one is never to bring up your profession at your party. He said, well, what are we gonna talk about? And I said, tell me one thing that you're, you kind of have a nerdy interest in something that involves taste. Now, taste could be taste in art, it could be tasted in cigars, it could be taste in fashion, it could be taste in gardening. Okay? Taste is an aesthetic preference. Now, this may be you ask how my brain works. Okay. I'm telling you, I, I've never been asked this question before, but I'm, I was like, I think it's kind of a, Blake Chapman (00:38:50) - I was like, I'm gonna shoot my shot with HB today. I'm gonna see if, uh, I'll, I'll, I'll go ahead and ask. I've never asked that question before, but I was curious H.B. Pasley (00:38:56) - Might be a . Well, it's a bit of a trade secret for me, I think. And, uh, I told him, I said, look, just decide on the thing that you'd love to share your taste. This guy loves wine. Uh, and he started collecting a little bit and he started learning. And I said, look, look dude, just when you get together, don't show off about it. But, uh, share your wine, and taste with others. Bring out a bottle and tell the story. Like, where is this from? What's the region? Tell us something we don't know. Geek out on that a little bit. And what's gonna happen is you're gonna see that other people who love the taste, they don't have to be wine experts. They're gonna deeply appreciate that you nerd out about something that they could also enjoy. And people are gonna have feedback. People can share their opinions. H.B. Pasley (00:39:37) - And I, I think that's the key to a successful party and kind of the key to becoming better socially. As a, I'll say this, as a man in particular, I can't, I mean, I, I like women. I'm not one. I'm married to one. I don't understand her, but I sure do love spending time with her. We're gonna celebrate 29 years of marriage in November. Congrat okay? We've been at this a while. Yeah. She's smarter than me anyway. For men. We tend to, uh, want to go engineering. If we get around, people get nervous, we want to talk about our skills, uh, ugh, we want to wrestle, you know, it becomes weird. So I found that encouraging men to think about something that they enjoy, taste and enjoy preferences in great conversation, is a great way to host a party. And for me, it's the way that, that my mind works in this thing. I love sharing those, little nuances of pleasure and enjoyment. Why do you like that so much? Well, I like it because of this. I find it makes a great conversation. Blake Chapman (00:40:32) - Absolutely. It does. And, uh, you know, that's a that's a really unique tool just to be able to actually get people to relax a little bit and feel at ease. And, uh, also goes back to, you know, let people in. You don't have to talk about your, uh, I've always, I've always, that's, it's funny, I haven't ever had that realization before, but I always feel like if I'm having a party or I'm at a social event or something, as soon as I start talking about, uh, if we get into careers, like immediately I feel like, yeah, maybe we're not doing a great job right away, you know, Yeah, H.B. Pasley (00:41:09) - That's right. It, it's like a, it's important to everybody, but it doesn't seem central people are more comfortable with the, uh, I, you know, that's, that's another podcast maybe cuz I don't want to dive, dive to, there's something about us though that we know, that we trust people who tell their personal stories. That's just a basic, uh, yuck. You've been very self-revealing today, even in the interview. Things that you like, uh, the fact that you love music and you're recording in the basement. and Exactly. Coming, coming up in Atlanta because you're self-revealing. You seem more approachable and easy to talk to. That's why you're great at this job. Blake Chapman (00:41:44) - Well, thanks H.B. Pasley (00:41:46) - . The second thing I know about you is you do a crap ton of research. I love you. Must, do you read fiction or non-fiction as a preference? Blake Chapman (00:41:54) - You know, I think I, I'll say this, I listen to non-fiction. I read fiction. H.B. Pasley (00:42:02) - Okay. No, this is very interesting cuz obviously, you enjoy podcasts as well, then you listen to other people's productions, I guess. Blake Chapman (00:42:08) - Absolutely. H.B. Pasley (00:42:09) - Yeah, I get it. Absorbing knowledge has its own juju, you know, to it. I, I kind of rebooted my love for fiction a few years ago. I realized I had spent so much of my life learning so that I could distribute that I was tired of feeling like an intellectual airport. So I thought I would okay, put myself back into the entertainment position of reading. And I've really enjoyed it a lot. I'm reading the Jack Reacher series right now. I love these sort of action episodic things, and, um, that makes, that too is kind of a taste thing, you know? Blake Chapman (00:42:42) - Yeah. That makes me, no, that makes me happy to hear that, uh, that you're, you're, you're diving into some, some fiction because that was something I also, the intellectual airport is so on point. Like, sometimes doing this stuff, you're like, I had to learn that over the years too, is like, yes, it's one thing to like read a book, but you aren't providing that much value of what you're doing is maybe just spitting out what's in the book. It's like you have to, for me, I, or you know, you probably, you might be, but I guess for me, what I found was more useful was to absorb the knowledge and then go live my life. And then scenarios would pop up and I'd be like, oh yeah, I learned, I actually learned something about this that is applicable. And then those experiences over time kind of add up into something where you can learn mm-hmm. , you know, H.B. Pasley (00:43:34) - Look, I've got, I brought, uh, because I traveled to be with my family for a period of time, I have a stack of books here. So I have, uh, this is a Lee Child book. This is a Jack Reacher book. Okay. So I'm ready to go there. Uh, this is a devotional book my wife loves this. Devotional books are like, where if you want to have a little spiritual bite every day, like a, uh, a hot pocket with scripture in it. This is called The Pleasure of His Company by Dutch Sheets. I've only read one chapter of this. Don't tell my wife, I I gotta get in there Blake Chapman (00:44:06) - Chapter. H.B. Pasley (00:44:07) - This is great, but I have it because a guy, a friend of mine was bringing this back to my attention that I shared this book with him maybe 15 years ago. It was shared with me 30 years ago. And it's called Peak Performance Principles for High Achievers. And I know that's a campy title. Please don't judge me or the author John Arno n Oe. This book set me on a course of understanding how to turn an idea into a practical mission. This little, it's just a little paperback. It's about mountain climbing and how you prepare incrementally to get somewhere. But I'm telling you, I still regurgitate things from this book 30 years later. horrible title. Blake Chapman (00:44:48) - That's incredible. I actually love the cover though. Very, uh, it's, H.B. Pasley (00:44:53) - It's, uh, kinda amazing. What, era does that remind you of? Is it like the eighties or nineties? Blake Chapman (00:44:57) - I was like, yeah, yeah. It's uh, it's got the, it's got a retro, a retro vibe to it. I, but I'm, I'm, I'm digging it. I like it. Yeah. H.B. Pasley (00:45:05) - All right. And then, because I picked up the books that now it's gratuitous, uh, the book plugging Time. Exactly. Blake Chapman (00:45:10) - Well, hey, you're actually, did you see that coming?? Hey, you're lining up, you're lining up with my notes perfectly cuz that was what I was, uh, I was gearing up to talk about. So never dropped the ball. I brought H.B. Pasley (00:45:21) - One with me. Blake Chapman (00:45:22) - H.B. Pasley (00:45:22) - Never dropped the ball again, baby. It's, it sounds kind of like a panic attack, doesn't it? That's, uh, but you know, my story and one of the, one of the things that I see when I see chaos or panic on an advisor's face, it's often when they lost a client or something went sideways in a relationship and they're not sure why. And teams that grow above 5, 6, 7 people often, it's not the, it may not be the lead advisor who dropped the ball. It's somebody on the team and they're like, HB, I don't know why. You know, I, I did this. I thought I was awesome. And then I, I handed the client over to my teammate, and then they blew it. This isn't always the story, but the reason that we blame shift and it gets, um, tense is because we care about our people. H.B. Pasley (00:46:06) - So this little book is, um, central to my practice helping people understand that client experience, how our clients and how our audience perceives and receives us emotionally, how they feel about our relationship is at least as or more important than the actual product that we're delivering. And then, the market shows this too. Data over the last couple of decades have continued to show that you can't just compete on the quality of product and you certainly just can't compete on price because cause the global marketplace has made price compression ridiculous. So, right. So the place we compete now, you and I both are not just, it's not just providing a podcast. You can't even provide just a conversation. You have to provide something that uniquely situates itself in the life of your listeners. So that they loved it, they got something out of it, it was great, and they can't wait to come back next week and do it again. So this is a hundred-page book, never Drop the Ball Again. How the ideal client experience will save your business. It's only a hundred pages long. I tried to copy one of my, well, I guess he's like a hero for being a writer. Seth Godin, you know that name. G o g o d I n. He's, he's kind of the granddad of modern digital marketing. Probably 20 years ago, Seth was writing these little baby books like this with just one key idea. Oh, I Blake Chapman (00:47:31) - Just looked him up. He's he has a pretty, uh, distinguishable look or indi Yeah, yeah. H.B. Pasley (00:47:37) - You can't miss him and everything he's ever printed is the thing I love. It is, there's only, there's only one idea in this book. There are not 10. If I pick up one more fricking business book that has 47 ideas, like everything the author could ever think of shoved into the pages, I'm going to jump out of a window. So I'm gonna do this one at a time. Blake Chapman (00:47:56) - I wanted to ask you about the book too, because obviously, it is about I ideal client experience. So I was kind of curious about the word ideal. Obviously, you want the client to have the ideal client experience, but I wanted to ask also that, does that go the other direction too, that this is, you know, for somebody like are you looking for the ideal client in this book? Is that something that is kind of factored in? H.B. Pasley (00:48:19) - Great question. And it's both ends. I thought it was kinda lucky. Um, it's like writing a song or a piece of poetry. When I put those three words together, I realized it immediately implies two things. And I loved it. You know, I kind of jumped outta my seat when I found the URL was available. You're welcome. Yeah, that's an ideal client experience. So, so the ideal client is in and itself, what we've, we've been talking a lot about in our, in this conversation today, like, um, discovering who you're best with, who is magically attracted to you, who you're amazing with, that discovery process in itself gives rise to a new privilege. Because watch this, this is the problem. If you have a hundred clients and they're all different shapes and sizes, and only 20 or 30 are ideal, and then somebody comes in and says, Hey, client experience is important. You say, okay, client experience, what's your obvious problem? Blake Chapman (00:49:15) -, which, which client? , who do I need? Yeah, H.B. Pasley (00:49:19) - Well, you, yeah, you have to create 57 different client experiences because none of them are the same. You've got, maybe you've got some chunks in reality, there's three or four groups in there probably. And what I realized was client experience itself has become a debilitating beat down when advisors are here, they know they need to do it, but, it's so frustrating because they think they have to go and create a magic carpet ride for everybody. I simply decided, Blake, that that was an impossible proposal. So my proposal is this. Let's find out who your ideal client actually is and who you want to be famous with for the next 10, or 20 years. And let's create a client experience only focused on them. Nobody else. Nobody else, just them. I, and I know that some questions will come up like, well, hb, does that mean we're gonna treat our other clients poorly? H.B. Pasley (00:50:12) - No, it does not mean that. And we don't have time in today's podcast to sort through it. But if you want to talk about that, like, can you focus on one group without the diminishment and exclusion of another? Ye yes you can. And how do you do that gracefully? Well, that's what I put in the book. I divided client experience into bites, into eight steps, so that even the nerdiest, non-empathetic members of your team, can still participate. But then the proposal is, and I'm glad you brought it up, and it's very challenging. We can, you can only get good at this if you will focus on your ideal client when you're trying to create that excellent experience model. Did I answer your question to the, Blake Chapman (00:50:54) - That you answered, uh, three of my questions? So, H.B. Pasley (00:50:59) - You Blake Chapman (00:50:59) - Did, Blake Chapman (00:50:59) - You did a great job. No, I was like, I was like, man, HP knows, knows exactly what I, what, what we need to hear right now. And you know, I, I really appreciate you taking the time, to join today and share your mission that you're on. Um, everybody please just, you know, keep up with what, uh, what h HP is doing. I'm sure that you're already gonna to follow your pages. Um, where is the best place to kind of keep up with you these days? H.B. Pasley (00:51:25) - I think right now it's to drop into that ideal client experience.com page. Uh, you'll get quick intros. I've, I've put up some free surveys where you could kind of test your own client experience iq. You could download a free PP D F and learn a little bit more about your ideal client. And then there are links to things like my YouTube channel and, uh, other ways to get connected, and there's even a little button that says, Hey, I want to talk to HB for a few minutes. Well, I'm the guy who answers the phone. Blake Chapman (00:51:55) - All right. All right. Uh, H.B. Pasley (00:51:57) - I put, I was the guy who was stupid enough to print his cell phone in the last page of that book, Blake Chapman (00:52:02) - . I figured H.B. Pasley (00:52:05) - Why make it hard on the people? It's hard enough already to have this conversation. Yeah. So you need somebody to talk to. So you can just call me up if you want and I'll chat. Um, I still answer the phone. I'm kind of old school that way. Blake Chapman (00:52:15) - Hey, I love it. Well, um, it was an absolute pleasure, and, uh, thanks for joining the G. E. M. series. I, uh, I hope this is the beginning of many, many conversations in the future. So, hey, thank you hp. H.B. Pasley (00:52:28) - Thank you, Blake. Had a great time. Blake Chapman (00:52:30) - Thank you for listening to today's episode of the G. E. M. series, where we're always here to share the goals, execution, and mindset of thought leaders around the world. If you're listening to this, I'm sure that you have some pretty big goals for yourself, and I would absolutely love to hear them. Actually, here at Rocket level, we just launched our newest partnership program where the goal is to, uh, well build a relationship with you guys. I want to talk with all of you, coaches, consultants, and entrepreneurs. This program is gonna be providing free sales and marketing training, giving you access to a massive network of small businesses, and even paying you to allow us to handle the fulfillment side of things. Over the last 20 years, uh, we've been able to learn a lot about how to handle digital marketing for a, you know, small business. And frankly, we want to pass that along. After working with business coaches and consultants all over the world, we decided, let's make it formal. Let's make this thing happen. So if you're at all curious, check out the links attached and please reach out directly. I would love to meet you all. Remember, I'm always an email, text, phone call, or DM away. Everybody remember to be awesome and do awesome things a whole lot more coming soon. Take care.