Episode 11: Producing Success from a Vision with Khari "Needlz" Cain
[00:00:00] Blake: Today's guest on the GEM series is the legendary producer Karrie Needlz Cane. Needlz is a multi-platinum multi-Grammy award-winning producer that has worked with some of the biggest names in music, including Cardi B, Bruno Mars, Nicole BAS Drake, and Jeremiah LoopPay fiasco. GZ Lil Wayne, 50 Cent, and so many more.
[00:00:24] Blake: He is the man behind so many tracks that all of us have come to know and love, including just the way you are by Bruno Mars, for which he actually won a Grammy form. This is a really unique episode because Cari invited me to come record from his spectacular home studio as somebody with a passion for entrepreneurship and also a passion for music.
[00:00:44] Blake: This was really a dream come true for me. Everybody, this is a truly exciting episode. You will not believe the stories Needlz has and the amazing lessons that he shares without further ado. Here's the Needlz interview on the GEM Series.
[00:00:59] Blake: Thanks for coming on. How are you doing, how are you doing?
[00:01:01] Needlz: you on welcome to my, my home, my studio. Absolutely. 
[00:01:06] Blake: Yeah. For anybody who's not seeing the visual part of this and you know, Carl has been so kind to welcome us into his studio. I am a huge music fan. I got a couple of bands, you know, but I'm not doing anything crazy, but this is like a dream come true.
[00:01:21] Blake: Getting to look around and see all of this here. So thank you so much for welcoming me into your home. I appreciate it. Everybody I'm sure if you haven't heard of Needlz he is a multi-platinum Grammy award-winning producer. He has worked with all the names that the whole world is listening to literally informed, like, you know, my life, everybody, you know, the whole generations, like Cardi B, Bruno Mars, Nicole BAS Drake.
[00:01:44] Blake: It goes on and on and on. So. You know, really what I wanted to talk about is, you know, before music, what was your background? Could you just share a little bit of your story?
[00:01:53] Needlz: yeah, for sure. So I'm from Lansing, Michigan the Midwest and, you know, middle-class family, you know, my, my, my, both of my parents were educators and my father listened to a lot of jazz and blues in the basement, like all the time.
[00:02:09] Needlz: So he's like a bedtime record collector. I mean, he'll fill this whole room with records and he's you know, Hi-Fi equipment and all that stuff. And you know, I just, that was just the environment I grew up in. I didn't think to, you know, want to play any instruments or anything like that. Like, my parents made us, you know take piano lessons and stuff like that, but I wasn't like excited about it.
[00:02:29] Needlz: Matter of fact, my brothers and I, we boycotted them one time saying we're not taking anymore piano lessons, but yeah, it was, it was just this, the fact that music was in the house, it was just like, subconsciously building that, I guess that, that taste over the years. And yeah, so a movie when I was like in high school, his movie called juice, and one of the main characters was a DJ.
[00:02:52] Needlz: And you know, he was like the coolest guy in the whole movie and whatever. So after seeing the movie, I just, you know, I told my father, I wanted DJ and he's like, yo, I'll get straight A's for, you know, a year. And I got straight A's and he bought me some turntables and just started deejaying in high school and in college.
[00:03:10] Needlz: And that was really just, you know, it was fun. It was, it was a hobby and I never thought I could make a living at it though from there. I went to grad school at NYU because I wanted to learn more about the business side of the music industry. And I slowly stopped deejaying and started producing once again, just as a hobby.
[00:03:33] Needlz: That's one thing kind of led to another in New York and I'm skipping some steps, but, but, but at the end of the day I intern for puffy Puffy's label, huh? Yeah. For, for Bad Boy. Yeah. And they found out that, my hobby was making beats and so they told me to play some music. They liked it and they started sending it around and kind of like the rest is history and yeah.
[00:03:57] Blake: And yeah. So did it feel like you're just moving at lightning speed, going through all this? Oh 
[00:04:02] Needlz: man. It's so much stuff happened in between all those different steps. But once again, it was kind of like, I never grew up saying, yo, I want to do this as a living. I mean, back then producing was rare there wasn't like only a select few people that had the money to afford the equipment and, and.
[00:04:23] Needlz: It's just something that kind of fell in my lap. And as a part of my internship for NYU at NYU was that you know I had to go out into the field and see what you know, an ANR would do and what those, what that environment was like. And for me, I just didn't like it. I mean, it's kinda like a lot of like backstabbing, a lot of politics, and a lot of being fake.
[00:04:49] Needlz: And I mean, you know, that's one part of the industry that you have to know how to maneuver at the time. I was like, let me just keep, keep making some beats. Oh yeah. Yeah. 
[00:05:00] Blake: That's great. That's a. I think that's, you know, so cool too, that you're like, you just were able to trust your instincts and, and really go after something that, you know, isn't the traditional route, right?
[00:05:14] Blake: Like, I mean, I got a lot of friends who produce on the side or anything like that, and yeah. I mean, it's, it's like hard to get out there and also, yeah, yeah. You know for me, I would love to hear a little bit about it, so were your parents always just like, no matter what you do just super supportive of stuff.
[00:05:30] Needlz: Yes and no.
[00:05:32] Needlz: So, you know, when I started and you started deejaying, you know, my father was, he was actually really hyped that to get me turntables. They were okay. So I started out with these really cheap Jim and I turntables and. You know, he was just like, these are some starter ones just to see if you're going to take it seriously.
[00:05:52] Needlz: And so after a while, I was practicing all the time and he saw me down there in the basement all along with him, just practicing and, and the big thing for him was like to kind of like level up my equipment. So he took me to JNR world and New York, which is like a big deal. I don't think it's there anymore, but we had the body's techniques, 12Hundreds.
[00:06:13] Needlz: Yeah. And those are like, you know, the tougher line we had to go to turntables. And so he was definitely supported with that. I went originally, I went to Florida a and M for my undergrad and I was majoring in business. But once again, it just wasn't in my personality to kind of fit that mold where I'm yeah.
[00:06:35] Blake: And was that kind of what you're trying to do whenever you went there initially for business. And I think I saw marketing. 
[00:06:40] Needlz: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. But the school I went to is a really good business school called it was a school of business in Florida, a and M as it was at the time was one of the top-ranked business schools in the nation.
[00:06:52] Needlz: And it was very, you know, where your suits shake hands, like this, give your introduction like this, you know, it was very like, yeah, yeah. It's just my personality. 
[00:07:03] Blake: Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I feel like that's the thing, a lot of people just kind of follow this path and you know if you're living lukewarm yeah.
[00:07:11] Blake: Right. Like how are you going to be great? Yeah. 
[00:07:12] Needlz: Yeah. That's kinda, yeah. I was just going through the motions and I think one time, I remember I was a, it was like my junior year and. I just remember being in my room, listening to this new Wu Tang album. And I literally broke down in tears because it was just so good.
[00:07:29] Needlz: And it was just like, I have to do music from this moment on I'm going to like pursue it. And for me, it was like, I have to get out of the school. I have to find my way to New York where everybody, you know, everybody at the time was in New York. So I transferred to Florida state, which allowed me to graduate earlier.
[00:07:47] Needlz: And so I did that and I got to New York and that's kind of how I made things happen. Yeah, 
[00:07:52] Blake: yeah. Going down the, you know, that's something I hear a lot is, you know, your career path is, should be looked at as a bunny trail. It's is something that's very linear. Right. 
[00:08:03] Needlz: I don't know. Yeah. It's really interesting.
[00:08:04] Needlz: But, but when I, when I told my parents, when I was at, from, you know, when I was at fam originally and I told them I wanted to leave the business school, they just really. They were, I don't say they weren't with it. I just remember that conversation. It was really like shocking to them because it's not a traditional thing.
[00:08:23] Needlz: It's not like normal. It's not the normal way for a kid to be successful. It's a lot harder path in their eyes. But I think me telling them that if I were to transfer, I would get in-state tuition.
[00:08:41] Needlz: it was a little bit of that. But then shortly after they really, really, you know, they've always had my back, you know, they've always really jumped in and they've probably been my biggest supporters over there.
[00:08:51] Blake: Yeah. Yeah. You know, I mean, and that's the thing I feel like even with my parents, they're like, Hey, I know how my life worked out and they're just trying.
[00:08:59] Blake: Pull from their own experiences and all of that to, to be like, I just want you to be as happy and successful as possible. Like, yeah. 
[00:09:08] Needlz: Yeah. It's funny because I'm going through all this again with my daughter, I have a senior and she's applying for schools and, you know, she wants to be in the music business just like me.
[00:09:18] Needlz: And I'm kinda like, well, it's kind of something you have to jump into. Go on to school. I think definitely helps. In regards to building your network of friends, obviously, the curriculum depends on what school you go through, but it's also like the location of the school. What opportunities do you have outside of the school and you know, what you do with your spare time and all that stuff?
[00:09:39] Needlz: So so yeah, it's really interesting. I'm really curious to see where she's going to land and what's going to be her path. No, that's, 
[00:09:46] Blake: that's, that's gotta be kinda exciting too. I mean, you can kind of like put her on does so many, so many different things. 
[00:09:53] Needlz: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So she didn't get into her dream school, which is NYU, which I'm pissed about, but it's a really hard school to get into it's really it's like probably the school she was applying for was you know, yeah.
[00:10:08] Needlz: People come from all over the world and so we're like pivoting and trying to figure out what's the next best thing. But like I said, everybody's path is different. Yeah. Yeah. 
[00:10:16] Blake: Truly, truly. So what were some of the kinds of big obstacles that you faced coming upon this path?
[00:10:21] Needlz: Oh, man. So many, I mean, being broke is, yeah, that's a large part of it early on.
[00:10:37] Needlz: I mean, it's really something to where, as I said, I was interning at Bad Boy and they turned my music into this label, Def jam and the ANR at the time, and the person who heard my music and art for method man, Redman, and DMX. Right. So like she would keep telling me, you'll just keep coming up, bringing me stuff, bring me music or whatever, and I would bring her stuff and I would she would, she would like it.
[00:11:02] Needlz: And one day she said, Hey, I want to manage you and then write off the value of that feeling. No, I can remember, like, I remember being in an office and right off the eighth street and Just being, it has just seemed surreal. You know, it was just, you know, because once again, I'm walking in and Jay Z is coming down the hallway and you know, this is Def jam at the, at the prime, like just to make it upstairs.
[00:11:29] Needlz: And that building was just like, you had your sticker on your way. You felt so accomplished because as you're going up, it's the rough riders coming down or it's murdering kids, just everybody at the time. So so right off the bat, maybe after she, you know, she wanted to manage me like maybe within a month, she got two placements on this Roughriders, compilation or whatever.
[00:11:57] Needlz: And I, I thought I made it, you know what I mean? I was still in school. I think I was in my senior year. I was still in school and I got. My first check was like for 5000 and my second one was like 7,500 and I just thought I was rich. Oh yeah. You know, I'm a broken. And I thought more than that, I thought it was going to keep coming.
[00:12:17] Needlz: You know what I mean? Every month I was going to get stuff like this. So it went from me you know, having that little $12,000, you know spending that money on a big 27-inch TV at the time, that was like big. So I had a big Superbowl party and I just thought I was balling. It's just like, I didn't see another check for another six to eight months. 
[00:12:40] Needlz: And I was like, dead broke. Do you know what I mean? So it was like, that taught me a lesson and just how it works and how you have to stretch it, you know, budget your money and make, make things work. And yeah, it was, it was a grind, but my manager was just like, just stay, just keep making me, just keep your head down, just keep making, making stuff.
[00:12:58] Needlz: And she's going to get the placements. And yeah, maybe like a year after that. I got, I remember this like driving and also I was thinking was the Brooklyn bridge coming back and my manager calls me and she's like, unit. And I'm like, that's like 50 Cent's a little tag. He was like the biggest, like, he was a huge, huge, yeah.
[00:13:20] Needlz: You know what I'm saying? And some, this is 2000. Five to 2005 On Top Of The World. So he's coming off his first album and going into the second album. And she was like, yeah, they picked two songs. And one of them ended up being a song called piggy bank was at the time was big like a disk record in New York.
[00:13:43] Needlz: And everybody's like hot 97. Everybody's talking about this record. And it was, it was really like cool times and yeah, yeah, 
[00:13:51] Blake: yeah. I'm sure you are. I mean, I feel like in the music industry, obviously, I'm sure everybody has this, but we all do a little music here, so, but I feel like there's so many intense high and low.
[00:14:01] Needlz: Oh my God. It's definitely, it's definitely made me more kind of like an even-keeled person because I've been through so much so much downs. So like, you know, we had our run and in New York, you know, G Unity and Jayda kiss. All kinds of people that didn't know Redman, man. And then the music started to change.
[00:14:29] Needlz: The south started blowing up, so MyTI, and they started taking over and you could literally, you could see the energy shift in New York. Like they didn't have it on black. Like they used to, and things started slowing down for me. I wasn't getting as many placements and things like that. And so, you know, I was like, look, we can't sit here and just go broke.
[00:14:54] Needlz: You know, we're, we're going to have to move just like I moved to New York because everything was there. We're going to have to move to Atlanta. And we did, we did that. Like dead-broke like we came down, that's funny. We had my wife and me. Was word packed with our two young children? And we're thinking we're moving into this house that we put a deposit on, come to find out we got scammed, we got scammed.
[00:15:25] Needlz: So like
[00:15:29] Needlz: We literally had to drive past the house that we thought we were going to be moving in. And we had to live here, my, my wife's house for, in Jacksonville, Florida for like, oh, like six months, just, just to kind of wait, waiting on old checks to come in and get us. Probably one of our lowest moments to where, you know, it was kinda like, man, I don't know if I got it.
[00:15:57] Needlz: I don't know. I don't know if I'm going to be able to support a family with this anymore. Music has changed. I have to adapt. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So, but it took a while. It was definitely you know, it was good that we have family, you know what I mean? But finally, a check, one of the industry checks and they take so long, you know, how long does it, I mean, you'll and what's crazy is you give the people, the music and the song will be in, be in stores and on, you know, on the radio, she said, yeah, yeah.
[00:16:26] Needlz: Can I get my second half? Do you know? So it's like, you know, six to eight months, sometimes a year it's, it's really crazy. So we're waiting on one of these checks. I got the check, we moved to Atlanta and we rented a house and I just slowly started to grind and meet people. It was desperately really, really, really slow, really hard, really a struggle for another, another year, year, year or so.
[00:16:54] Needlz: And then I got a call for a friend of mine. He's like, look, man, I need you to go to the studio and play some beats for this for a little Wayne. And he's like, he's, I'm like, I'm like, course, yes, I'm going say, yeah, exactly. So now this is CD time. Right? You're still making CDs. And so I had to burn my music on a CD and so I went down there to meet it.
[00:17:21] Needlz: Wasn't a little Wayne, it was like little Wayne right-hand guys. So I went down. I think it was hot beats over there. Kind of like a Midtown. And I just remember pulling up and parking and waiting for the guy. And I just remember him. I just remembered the Sharpie that I had to write my name on the CD.
[00:17:43] Needlz: It wore out. So I couldn't write my name on the CD. So I ended up giving this guy a blank or barely readable CD. So he has the music, but he has no idea where the beats came from. 
[00:17:59] Blake: It's funny. I thought you were about to say it. So I got out of the needle.
[00:18:10] Needlz: No, that's a whole nother thing. It's, it's interesting. We'll definitely get into that. But so I gave him the CD and maybe like three weeks later people are saying, yeah, Lil Wayne just leaked a whole bunch of songs on the internet, and maybe like five, I gave him like 10 beats, five of those beats.
[00:18:30] Needlz: He leaked on the internet, which back then. And it wasn't a good thing because it was just like, yeah. Yeah. And he leaves, he leaked all of these songs and I'm like, dang, I'm not going to get paid. There was one beat on there that Busta rhymes had picked or something like that. And so Busta rhymes end up calling screaming on my manager because they already picked the beat.
[00:18:57] Needlz: But I'm just thinking like, man, I'm not going to get paid for all these good beats. Oh yeah. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Hours invested. But one of those beats ended up taking off it slowly started to build momentum and it had Drake on it. So it was a song with little Wayne and Drake and it was called I'm going in.
[00:19:18] Needlz: Oh yeah. And so it's a class. Yeah, that's a class. It just started picking up legs, legs, you know what I'm saying? And then it just kinda, it kinda took off, they put Jeezy on it. And that was my first big record in Atlanta. And that really kind of helped set the foundation for, you know, really what, what was to come next, which was, you know, all kinds of other big records.
[00:19:41] Blake: Yeah, yeah. 
[00:19:43] Needlz: Yeah. I mean, people 
[00:19:47] Blake: say that I feel today, like absent as long as such a classic, you know, something that stands out to me though. So relentless. Yeah. Like how did you, how'd you kind of build up that mindset too, to get to the point where you're like, you're like, I don't care if I'm broke, I'm just going to go to my next thing?
[00:20:07] Needlz: I just knew what I didn't want to do. Yeah. What I'm saying. I knew I didn't want to work a nine to five. I know I didn't want to have a boss and I dunno, I just knew I had a passion for it. It's something I love to do. And I knew that I could make money. I, you know, three or four years prior, I was making good money doing it.
[00:20:30] Needlz: So I knew I had the capability to do it. It's just like, sometimes it's meeting the right people, right. Opportunity and stuff like that. And just being prepared for the opportunity. So. Yeah, I just, I never really gave myself any plan BS, you know what I mean? It was just like, just keep going. And, you know, luckily my wife had a pretty good job and she kind of held us down for years.
[00:20:52] Needlz: So would be kind of like ups and downs where it's like, you know, I'll get a couple of big records and I'm like, oh, you can quit. And then I'll go broke or things will slow down. And then, and then you know, it's just kinda that it's a relationship, it's a marriage. And, and so so yeah, I really wasn't stable, stable until, you know, you know, until maybe 2009, 2010, where.
[00:21:23] Needlz: I was doing assault prior to this, when I was kind of like in New York day to do a lot of stuff with this rapper loopy fiasco. Yeah. I was on his first album and we were, we were really cool. We used to, you know, do a lot of stuff as far as mixed tapes and all kinds of stuff. But I was working on some stuff for him and I wanted him to like, it cause he, you started to become, go from underground to like a little more commercial.
[00:21:48] Needlz: So I wanted to do something a little more commercial for him. And pre one of the first times I really collab with somebody was a good friend of mine. His name's Cassius. He was in the studio. And at the time, I didn't know, he played keys or saying, or not, he's like a rapper. He was just kind of like hanging around and we were just in the studio just kinda messing around.
[00:22:08] Needlz: You know, he had given me like give me a, like a chord progression via the phone one day, you know what I mean? And he's because I don't really play keys like that. And he knows that. So he kind of hummed it hum the melody line on the phone and I played it or whatever. And then later on he ended up being in the studio with me and he came up with this hook and it was called Just The Way You Are.
[00:22:35] Needlz: And I did that song for loopy and I wanted it to feature Adam Levine. Whoa. That was my goal. So interesting. Yeah. Yeah. So that was my goal for that song. So we pitched it to Atlantic or his record label and they really loved the record, you know? And so You know, months went by, and come to find out a loop and his label were kind of like butting heads.
[00:23:02] Needlz: And then just things went radio silent for a while. And he's like, you know what? I don't think we're base going to do the song. Well first what happened was we're going to try, instead of Adam Levine, we're going to try this new kid Bruno Mars on the hook. And I'm like, I don't want to put it on
[00:23:22] Needlz: Yeah, yeah. And was like, yeah. I was like, oh, I haven't been, but they cause like Bruno Mars. So, Bruno cut the hook and loop. I was supposed to do the verse, but he just never did it. And then. Things went silent for a while. I kept working on the song for a month. I worked on that same song and I got a call and his ANR, his name's Aaron Bay Shuck.
[00:23:44] Needlz: He's like, look, man, I'm going to change your life. And I'm like, hi, whatever. He's like, you have Bruno Mars's first single, you know, just the way you are. And I was like, cool. Do you know what I mean? It wasn't, I didn't, you didn't know it was going to go on to do what it did, but I heard that they sent me the record to this day.
[00:24:00] Needlz: I still, I gotta find it. I gotta find the, they sent me the record with a watermark saying this is owned by. So it'll go it'll, it'll play for a little bit. 10 seconds. And we'll say this is owned by Atlantic records for me not to leak it or whatever, but yeah. It ended up being a huge record. Number one in the world sold, I don't know, almost 15 million records and stuff like that.
[00:24:27] Needlz: Yeah. Yeah. 
[00:24:28] Blake: That's I mean, that's huge. Yeah. So there's nobody who doesn't know that song. Like whenever you first heard the hook where you like, yeah, like, did you have like a Eureka moment? Like, oh yeah, 
[00:24:38] Needlz: that's it. Or when it all came together, I was like, yeah, this sounds cool. If it feels right. Do you know what I mean?
[00:24:46] Needlz: But never did. I think it was going to…
[00:24:49] Blake: The weird thing with music too, is it's so subjective. So even if you think something is amazing, I release it. It's just like a total Flom or anything.
[00:24:57] Needlz: Yeah. It was crazy as musicians. Do you gotta think there are millions of kids every night that we go through this process of making a beat or a song, thinking the song is the best song we've ever made or best we've ever made to dreaming what we're going to get?
[00:25:18] Needlz: When we get the money from this number one song to nobody like in the song to it going nowhere and for us to have to do that night after night after night. Yeah. It's just like a very. But you just, you, because you love it, you want to keep, keep going and doing it. But it's definitely something that will just humble you.
[00:25:42] Needlz: You. Absolutely. Yeah, because there are so many people, especially now because technology allowed so many people that have access to the equipment. It's very, very competitive. And there are so many people every night like I said, have that feeling like this is the one I'm telling you. No one in it goes nowhere.
[00:26:03] Needlz: Yeah. It's an interesting thing that I wonder if you know the people that own Spotify. No. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of real. 
[00:26:15] Blake: Yeah. I wonder, you know, and some that I always think about and I've been like, even though like, oh, I would love to add, ask someone like, you know, like you about this is whenever you make music, you know, there's that phase where you're, you know, you're listening to it and you're like, oh, this sucks.
[00:26:29] Blake: And then you're like, oh, this might be something cool. And you go through the motions with it. What do you do, to like the, break out of it?
[00:26:35] Blake: Yeah. Break out what, yeah. What's your, what's your process like with mindset for that kind of stuff? 
[00:26:39] Needlz: You know, tough man, because inspiration, I just read this quote the other day, it's like, inspiration will find you, but it has to find you working or something like that.
[00:26:51] Needlz: So you have to really put those hours in and you really have to, you have to really shoot in the gym, you know, really, really put those shots up in order for it to come. So that's one part of it you can't really stop working completely. Do you know? Sometimes for me, it's been a few things for me is like getting new sounds.
[00:27:13] Needlz: So I may stop just making music for a week and just gather and, you know, really find a whole bunch of new sounds that I can start to make new stuff on the following week. Collaboration is cool. And that's where this collaboration is really big these days which I think is good and bad. I honestly, I think, I think it's good in a sense that you're getting some kind of hybrid or a melted kind of two, two people to better than one idea.
[00:27:44] Needlz: But I don't know that because there's so much collaboration. I don't know that we're getting the. These are genuine ideas, right? Like these genuine unique ideas.
[00:27:57] Blake: I've thought about that. Cause I feel like if you haven't taken the time to truly develop your sound levels of compromise, that kind of operation, even just in a social kind of thing, you're like you want to hurt somebody's feelings and be like these 8 0 8.
[00:28:17] Needlz: And what's really interesting is that's the big thing in the music industry now is like with publishers and, and, and, and managers, they say, whoa, this guy makes good beats. This guy makes good beats. Let's put them together and we'll get a super B, it just doesn't work like that. Do you know what I mean?
[00:28:33] Needlz: Like what, you know, they'll throw people in a room we'll meet for the first time. I don't know what your strengths are. I don't know. You know, we might use different equipment. I don't know exactly. You know what our approach should be. Do you know what I mean? As you said, it's a lot of compromises and I think in my position as a producer, anyway, there's a lot of knowing how to tell people that shit is whack without saying it outright.
[00:29:02] Needlz: You know what I mean? Let's pivot to this or let's try doing this or let's switch vibes up. Do you know what I mean? So I'm in the mindset of working with a small group a whole bunch, you know what I mean? As opposed to working with a new person every day, I like knowing what to expect from the songwriters.
[00:29:23] Needlz: And a lot of times I'll use the same songwriters because I know how to speak through my songwriter, to the artist. Do you know what I mean? I can, I can say, look, I'm looking for Something melodic, but I still want to be able for the artist to be able to explain that she can actually sing. So we need long notes for the pre, and then we need to go back to something, a lot of going hook, like and I can say that to my writer.
[00:29:50] Needlz: And he was like, got it. Do you know what I mean? Because we work for so many times. So I'm along those lines. I think, you know, if you look on records now there's like 16 people on one record and, you know, eh, sometimes it's good. Sometimes you can call up some great stuff, but I just feel like the level of uniqueness nowadays, we're, we're, we're missing some of that also because of social media because everybody can see what everybody else is doing and everybody is copying.
[00:30:22] Needlz: Yeah. So, so so to go back to your question, I find myself in that being stuck place all the time. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. It's like when I started, I was always inspired like, oh man, the Neptunes, those are too crazy, too crazy. Just blaze all these people where their individual sounds were just something that was just so inspiring and inspiring for me to like, oh, I'm going to have my Beatles sound and I'm going to have this, you know what I mean?
[00:30:52] Needlz: But I don't really get that as much. I don't get those wow moments like this crazy. Yeah. Make me run. And y'all got to beat this or type this it's more. So I'm at a point in my career where I feel like I have to, I have to be the one inspiring people or taking chances and doing stuff that makes me happy instead of waiting for somebody else to inspire me or blending in, like I have to be the one, be the thought leader. Yeah. And I feel like, I feel like I can be or one of them, you know what I'm saying? Oh yeah. 
[00:31:27] Blake: I would say hands down, you know, I'm like, you've informed entire generations, you know, like we're, you know, we're joking around a little bit about, you know, the song I'm going in and everything.
[00:31:37] Blake: And, but I mean, it's literally, like all of these songs are just like plugged in growing up, you know? So, it's pretty, it's pretty cool. It's pretty cool, man. I, I, you know, and I like to think, I guess part of the story that I was curious about too is, you know, I'd love to hear about maybe this specifically hone in on that, that season of life, where you were in the music business school at NYU, and you're doing a and R like, what was the, yeah.
[00:32:03] Blake: What were you thinking about around then? Cause like I know A and R is like, that's, you know, it's still hard to do. It's a traditional route, a little more traditional. 
[00:32:11] Needlz: It is. So back then and was where they were really. The glue, they really put the right artists with the right producer and they also sequence the album.
[00:32:22] Needlz: They made sure the collect, like the album, gave you a whole experience. Do you know what I mean? It wasn't just now it kind of feels like just a group of songs. Do you know what I mean? There are no interludes. There's no field, like when you want, after you get done, listen and the album, it doesn't leave you with an impression as much as it used to, you know what I mean?
[00:32:41] Needlz: There's songs or just albums here and there also, because we're a single singles based kind of a society now in that, because when CDs died and, you know, we went to him, MP3s and streaming and stuff like that. People had the opportunity to So just pick the song they like and just listen to, you know what I mean?
[00:33:02] Needlz: And that kind of, to me, it kind of ruined or the whole listening experience, what a big deal. Once again, though, when I started interning, like for the first month, all I did was get people, and coffee, I guess it's paying dues. But at the time I'm like, I'm a little older too, because I was, I had already graduated college.
[00:33:24] Needlz: I was a grad student, so I'm like 22, 23, you know what I mean? But some of the interns were my age, like not some interns, but some of the others like ANRs were young, you know, you know what I'm saying? I'm like, I'm kissing ass. Do you know what I mean? But you know, you have, you have to pay your dues. You have to be, I think politics, I think you just gotta be a cool person, a group, cool people person.
[00:33:51] Needlz: And. It was like I said, it was just tough for me to conform to anybody's anything. Yeah. I can't even really explain it. 
[00:34:02] Blake: Yeah. Yeah. You know, a term that I've always heard is like, whenever you want to really work for yourself, you're almost unemployable. Yeah. You're like, I'm doing, I have a vision.
[00:34:12] Needlz: Absolutely. Yeah. It's cause it's not really anything. It's not that brag about, but I never really had a job maybe while I was in college. I think I worked at the mail in the mailroom or something, but yeah, I think what you get that taste of the kind of doing it yourself more, whether it's hard you know, you just kind, you, it's hard to be in any other kind of situation, that kind of situation.
[00:34:40] Needlz: So, yeah. So for me you know, maybe I could have humbled myself a little bit more to pay more dues and. Do you know, I don't know, but at the time it just, it just wasn't for me. And I really, really, once again, I was really, really inspired to make music, you know, as opposed to beyond the business side of it.
[00:35:01] Needlz: I was just like every night that I remember, cause my school, my classes, cause it was grad school was or night classes. So all during the day making beats and then going to school and to get up, get out around like seven or eight, come home, make beats until like three in the morning and go to sleep for a little bit, wake up, make beats like it was just a loud, it's almost like it was being in grad school.
[00:35:26] Needlz: Really set me up because I had a lot of time to just really, you know, get good at my craft. 
[00:35:32] Blake: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So what was it like whenever you got discovered at Bad Boy records when? Oh, yeah. They make beats and they, they w how did 
[00:35:42] Needlz: that? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, first of all, I remember, you know, my first interview with them.
[00:35:48] Needlz: I know, I, like I said, prior to that, I was at a, a really traditional school of business where, as I said, you had to wear your suit. Do you know what I mean? So I went there for my interview, with that boy with a suit on, and I had a briefcase and in my resume, they were like laughing at me because they were like in jeans and t-shirts not like, but they, I think they respected that.
[00:36:11] Needlz: I kind of took it seriously. Yeah. So that's how I got the job. And the guy I worked for, his name is Damon Eden. Really cool dude. And this other lady named Francesca Spero. But yeah, he was just, he came to me, he was just saying like, look, man, this, this is like late one night out to work. What do you do outside of interning for us?
[00:36:33] Needlz: Because everybody has a hustle. Everybody here has a side hustle. It's just like, I just started making beats. Do you know what I mean? There're, they're cool. Do you want to hear them? Do you know what I mean? And I let him hear him. And he like, yeah, this is pretty good. So I worked for the partner. I worked for the part of the company that managed, the Hitman, which was Puffy's producers like Stevie J and D dot and Mario whining and all these casts that made all these like big biggies album, one 12 faith, all of the Bad Boys stuff.
[00:37:08] Needlz: So that's history, it's history. So what was cool for me was. I will put one of my job responsibilities was to like organize their beat CDs and their DATs and their music to send out to other labels and, to disperse internally. So I got a chance to hear what they were working on, you know, as I was an intern.
[00:37:31] Needlz: So that really let me know like what kind of level of music I had to make. And I think that helped me get, get better. So I'm listening to like Mario widens and like Stevie Jay's beats CDs. Yeah. Going home, like, yo, I think I could beat this or I could do something like this. Yeah. So it was, it was that experience, you know, they would send me to the, you know, go to Sam, Ash, get Mario mining's a tambourine, take it up to him.
[00:37:58] Needlz: You know what I'm saying? Like go to, you know, and so I spent some time at a puffy studio at daddy's house. And just seeing everybody just seeing. People that you hear on the radio walk past. Yeah. 
[00:38:10] Blake: Who are some of the artists that they interact with a little bit early on where you're like, 
[00:38:14] Needlz: I mean, for me a lot, a lot for me at the time it was the producers, you know what I mean?
[00:38:19] Needlz: So there was, you know, there was a good part of the time that I hung out with Kanye for a while. Which was cool. I met him through, I think I met him through my friend ADA keys. And it was cool because, you know, w, when we came up, sounds like drum sounds, something like that. They weren't like ready, available, available, like on like, they are now, like, can go to like splice, you got everything you got to splice and get everything, but back then we almost had to Rob somebody or steal to get sound.
[00:38:53] Needlz: Yeah. Well, yeah, not only that. The thing was to get, get in good with the engineers that had the sounds that such and such used on this. Do you know what I mean? Like getting sounds was a big deal. So when Kanye and I were hanging out, like we traded drum sounds or whatever. And I remember he came to my apartment and I just got this new MPC, 4,000, this drum machine.
[00:39:21] Needlz: I barely knew how to use it, but I'm like giving him all my best. Yeah. I'm giving him all my best sound or whatever. And then I think the day later I met him at some other studio and he gave me a floppy disc of his songs that we were trading or whatever. So I gave him like some shit and I go back home and take this.
[00:39:42] Needlz: This sounds crazy. It's a floppy disk. Put it in my ABC. And the sounds he gave me were so trashed that
[00:39:59] Needlz: just gave me some trash, but it was cool. I mean, just honestly we were, I think we hung out just for a couple of days or whatever, but it was cool seeing even him, like at the time. And he has a documentary that's out right now. That's yeah. I'm seeing a documentary because I hung out with him a couple of times during that time when he was coming up in New York.
[00:40:21] Needlz: So for me, seeing him living in Hoboken, he had his apartment with a pool table in it. It was just super inspiring. Yeah. He's driving his bins, but he was also, he wasn't like, it looked like he was rich, but he wasn't like rich, rich. He could still live in kinda check the check as well. So, you know, to the point he was like, do y'all got money for it to get across the bridge?
[00:40:47] Needlz: Y'all you know what I'm saying? But we're going to a session where he goes into a room. We're for these artists, these workers are that he's working with. And I just see, like, I don't know, it had them at like 20 grand in cash on the table that he was getting at night. So it's like, just to see all that stuff.
[00:41:08] Needlz: I mean, working with, I don't know, 50 young bucks all those cats. It was, it was, it was really dope. Yeah. 
[00:41:16] Blake: Yeah, yeah, no. So it was, this was the Kanye arrow. Is that, so that was, that was like, like 
[00:41:22] Needlz: producer era. This was a pre-college dropout producer. One thing I always, that has always been cool for me.
[00:41:30] Needlz: Like, he's always kind of helped out. Like there were, there was an artist that I was working with who was an R and B artist. And we were trying to get Kanye to do a verse and he did it. So I have this, like, I have this like really early Kanye verse, and his jaw was still messed up from the kayaks. And so he, he, he always looked out and like I said, he was more so of inspiration just to see that this dude is, I think he was like a year younger than me or something like that.
[00:42:03] Needlz: And he's like doing it, you know what I mean? I'm seeing his songs on the radio. And, and so, yeah, it was a lot of that. Just seeing people that you idolize and you're like rubbing shoulders with. 
[00:42:15] Blake: Absolutely. Yeah, no, that's. Yeah, that's, that's really, really cool. I mean, 50 Cent to, I got to imagine, I mean, was a, along the way, where did you pick up any kind of like wisdom from some of these folks?
[00:42:26] Blake: Or was it more just observing and live in it? And 
[00:42:29] Needlz: it was like, it was like living it like I remember being like, you know, selling my first beat or whatever to the rough riders. It's a rough rider is they're pretty like a hardcore group of like, they're like hardcore everybody from the management to the artists, to everybody.
[00:42:48] Needlz: And I remember going in to, they were like mixing me, they were about to start mixing my record. Right. And I'm young, you know what I mean? And the engineer, he was doing these things called drops where the music would drop out. Wow. You know, the rappers rapping and you'll do a drop whatever. And so I'm just so like into the music and, you know, And I'm like, I just jump up and tell the engineers, you got to do it like this.
[00:43:17] Needlz: It gives you like this. And then everybody like turns around and looks at me like, why don't you go sit down somewhere? There's like a whole bunch of like, gay, like just, it was just sad. It was. Yeah. So I just kinda got to learn your place early on. And then as you get more established, you get to say more things in your voice becomes more powerful in rooms and, and you get more respect and things like that.
[00:43:41] Needlz: So, so many, so many life lessons along the way. I mean, even you know, but I will say this is a big part of one of the mistakes I feel like I made in my profession as I was working all the time. Like we're like in my house working so much that I would make music for people without being in the studio with them.
[00:44:08] Needlz: Right. Because it's hard. People said people say, people think it's easy. Like you just, you just started out as a producer. And then all of a sudden you're in a studio with Mariah Carey or something like that. It doesn't work like that. You have to like pay your dues. So it was hard for me to get in the studio with them.
[00:44:25] Needlz: So oftentimes I would meet the people after the fact, you know what I mean? Like I'm at Bruno. A year later. Really? Yeah. Do you know what I'm saying? And you know, I checked their hands. They don't know who the hell I am until I say, Hey, I'm Needlz. Oh, my life. Do you know what I mean? So so, but I think early on, and even still now, I think I'm, I'm a homebody to a certain extent, but you really have to kind of get out there and show your face.
[00:44:53] Needlz: People have to see you and you have to touch hands and people have to really know who you are because it's really out of sight out of mind and this industry, that's why you see so many people just bragging and boasting and they've got their car and their chain people it's, it's sad, but some people will respect that stuff.
[00:45:17] Blake: So, well, you know, something that I always was kind of curious about, you know, reading about your story. You know you've, you've always stuck with the producer route. Were you ever tempted to go to the artist side of things? 
[00:45:28] Needlz: or like, well, that's funny you asked that. No, no, no. I'm not good, I'm not a good rapper, but I, I just know how things are supposed to go.
[00:45:39] Needlz: And I think that's because I was a DJ for a while. Like DJ is like real-time. It's like a real-time reaction, you know? And that's something that really, really is something that I feel like it's helped me. Cause you could play a record and have the crowd go crazy and everybody loves you. But the next record you play, if it's whack, everybody would turn and be like, oh, this is why.
[00:46:05] Needlz: So just transitions back. Oh my God, transitions. There are so many things when it comes to, and this was a fault of mine, the same thing with deejaying and I went to school in Florida where. You know, the DJs back then. They're like, they're, they're mixing and stuff, but they're always on the Mike,
[00:46:26] Needlz: but I was never like that. I'm just deejaying. I'm just literally like this, you know what I mean? I like when the music speaks for us, that was my thing. But then what this was a kind of a life-changing moment in a sense where I was like, man I have to switch it up or I have to switch professions.
[00:46:41] Needlz: So I went to like some step show or something like this. Right. And they say this guy's DJ, and I've never heard of the guy or whatever. Right. So I'm sitting in the crowd waiting for this performance to happen and the DJ walks in. Right? Yeah. The DJ walks in with like six girls that escort him down and he's like, he's like, it's a show.
[00:47:09] Needlz: Yeah. He gets on the stage and he's like, yo man, first of all, on the stage, he has this big sign with his name or whatever, just like, and he's just all in the mic and the crowd is going crazy. And I'm just seeing this big performance. And that was a young DJ
[00:47:30] Needlz: DJ Calla. And I was like, this guy has it down. Like he has the whole marketing piece down. He has the, you know, the charisma. He said he has all the style. And I was like, man, I don't know if I, I don't know if that's me per se. Do you know what I mean? But it was just something that it was just like, you really have to give people a show and you have to be an entertainer.
[00:47:50] Needlz: Yeah. Producing kind of allowed me. Me, as far as my personality, I can work. I don't care for the spotlight. Do you know what I mean? I just, I'm in it to be creative and to inspire people and also to make money. I don't necessarily need to be in front of anybody. Do you know what I'm saying? So that's kind of why this kind of, kind of fits me.
[00:48:14] Needlz: But even now it's the same thing. Like you have to, the big thing now is you have to have a tag on your record. So people know that this, this is your record. This is your record. And I'm still, so it's, to me, it's kind of corny, but it's kind of the thing that people do. Just like, Hey, I did this, Hey, everybody looks at me.
[00:48:33] Needlz: I make, yeah. It's like, it's like, 
[00:48:37] Blake: yeah. That's why I asked about the artist thing. Cause like, when I see like Pierre or something like that, you know, like starting to do the airborne does his own stuff too. And it's really good, you know? 
[00:48:46] Needlz: Absolutely. Well now, now I'm transitioning to more like, well, I have mine.
[00:48:52] Needlz: I have a new label that they would have companies ACG great have three artists right now. And so it's an opportunity for me to be creative. But through that label, I'm also going to be doing instrumental albums and stuff. That's catered more around me. And, and if I'm not the person that's saying, Hey, look at me, I got to have somebody next to me doing more content saying, you know, she did this.
[00:49:15] Needlz: Did you know he did this and all that stuff? Yeah, 
[00:49:17] Blake: no. And that's something I think is really cool about what you're doing is, I mean, I think in any good position, ideally you get to lift somebody else up for sure. And, and that's the role of a producer in my mind, always like how do I, I mean, maybe you can tell me a little bit about your philosophy.
[00:49:35] Needlz: Yeah. It's definitely managing personalities in the room. Do you know what I mean? I worked with arrogant songwriters. I worked with, you know because of the way it typically works. On day-to-day for me, I'll have my engineer who is normally here, and then then I'll have a songwriter and we'll say, Hey, let's, we're gonna work on some songs for Rihanna.
[00:49:56] Needlz: Right. And so we'll maybe listen to some old stuff, but then also say, you know, let's go this direction or whatever, whatever. And so what we'll typically make, we'll make a song for me. The big thing is guiding the, not necessarily writing with the songwriter, but challenging the songwriter to make a big sound and song.
[00:50:17] Needlz: So if it's a small song or a small thinking song, that's about, you know, my watch, you know what I mean? It's like, that's cool, but not too many people, not the massive. Aren't going to gravitate toward that. Do you know what I'm saying? It's like, it's more, so songs about love songs. Always. I always push some song with it.
[00:50:45] Needlz: It always worked all of them. Pretty much all my, my biggest records from just the way you are selfish by PNB Rock, Cardi B ring you know, you pretty much all my like number one records are like love songs. Do you know what I mean? So that's what I, I'm really trying to, I always try to push for that, but then once again, that's just the dynamic of every day.
[00:51:05] Needlz: But then when you have an artist in here, you kinda gotta check the temperature of the artist. See what they, how you know, what direction they want to go. One, I have to make a beat or something that they like, then the songwriter has to write a song. It's so many, so many You're the captain of the ship.
[00:51:23] Needlz: I mean, even, even telling the engineer kind of like how you want it to sound, you really have to be able to articulate that and without hurting people's feelings without Mo you know, you got to motivate people. So it's a lot of, it's a lot more than just hitting buttons, at least where I am now. 
[00:51:39] Blake: Absolutely.
[00:51:40] Blake: Yeah. There are a lot of moving parts. And so, yeah, it sounds like you do have a pretty big team than now. 
[00:51:46] Needlz: Yeah. Now it's, you know like I said, the engineer on staff, I got a partner with labeled three, three artists. You know, at one point earlier this year, we have a ton of like overhead, but we realized that this is a marathon being a small company, you know, breaking artists, you know, it's really being consistent and, and more than anything, it's just being consistent, creative and, and you just have to have good music too.
[00:52:15] Needlz: You know what I mean? So, so. So, yeah, we, it's, you know, it's a pretty decent, small size operation where we, you know, we have plans to grow. I'm building a studio up the street, which is going to house a lot of what they're doing as well as, you know, I've got all kinds of plans for that studio.
[00:52:33] Needlz: So yeah, this is just like, I thought I had a studio before this, and this was, was to just be temporary, but ended up being, I've been here for a year. Hey, 
[00:52:43] Blake: I got to say, I'm like, this is great over here. So I can't even imagine how 
[00:52:47] Needlz: amazing the studios. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, to see if I have time to show you guys, it's like 
[00:52:52] Blake: five.
[00:52:53] Blake: Yeah, no, we'll definitely go check it out. That'd be, that'd be great. So I want to hear a little bit about like Pico's success moment. Like Bruno Mars, all of this is rolling in kind of like what's the, where's 
[00:53:05] Needlz: your head out? I think for me, one of the kinds of cool moments was. You know, we moved to Atlanta, like we barely made it up to Atlanta and, you know, we have young kids.
[00:53:17] Needlz: So then we moved again to for us, you know, it was an apartment which is kind of humbling for us coming from a house that we had just built to be in damn near homeless to a rental house now to an apartment, but we want our kids to go to a good school district. So it was one cool moment like my, my daughter.
[00:53:36] Needlz: Oldest daughter. She used to always go to her friend's house. She used to always love playing at our friend's house. You had this huge house in Brookhaven. Right. And you know, it was funny cause I was like, man, I don't know. This is before. Just the way you are. Actually, I was like, I don't know if we would ever be able to afford anything like that.
[00:53:58] Needlz: I was like, must be nice. You know, I and my wife just loved the house. And so maybe two years, two or three years passed. And you know, my wife's always talking about this house, this house, this house, and I produce just the way you are. The money starts rolling in. And come to find out, it went from us like really liked the house to us, buying the house.
[00:54:24] Needlz: We'll have to have money. Do you know what I'm saying? And you know what I'm saying? Like, this is crazy. I'm in the house that we just thought was so unattainable. And it's, it's been so much, I mean, one thing for me and my wife is just such a big dreamer and such a person that's like, yo, we can do it.
[00:54:46] Needlz: You could do this. We can do everything we can. She just wants to do every, she's an entrepreneur. And my wife's an entrepreneur as well. So she's opened up a few boutiques and she just opened up her new location in the park. So we're both living, like living our dreams, just chasing our dreams. You never really settled.
[00:55:04] Needlz: And that's been a lot because you're trying to raise a family and you know, you're moving in and out of the house. So, you know, that was cool, that was a cool moment. I mean, I think we got, I think that song was like a song of the year. Whenever, whenever that was, I don't know, 2012 or something like that.
[00:55:26] Needlz: That was a cool moment. Just to be, you know, being at the Grammys. 
[00:55:30] Blake: Yeah. I wanted to ask what are the 
[00:55:33] Needlz: Grammys like? Grammy's is cool because, you know, we were sitting on the floor and just seeing everybody, just seeing once again, seeing everybody that you, that you were competing with, competing against seeing everybody that you look up to and, you know, everybody having their own little entourages, but you still, because you've been in the industry so long, you know, a little bit people here, some people here, so it's, it's, it's that's cool, but I, I think probably my, my.
[00:56:06] Needlz: Best or one of my favorite moments of my career was really when I first, first started and that first placement talking about that rough riders placement and I used to, I was living in Harlem and it was maybe, I don't know, like two in the morning and I'm just like walking the streets of Harlem and all of a sudden this car drives by the blast.
[00:56:30] Needlz: And the song I produced, I was just like, oh, it's I made it like, nobody else's. It felt like I was the only person outside at the time. Yeah. And I was just going crazy. Like, that's my song, you know what I mean? That, to me is something that I was just hearing somebody else just blasting your music for the first time.
[00:56:48] Needlz: It's crazy. 
[00:56:49] Blake: Yeah. No, that's, I mean, that is so cool. It's like. I think as artists, that's like the thing that anybody, you know, we don't care about analytics. 
[00:56:58] Needlz: Yeah. You just want people to like your stuff. 
[00:57:02] Blake: Yeah. Or it'd be like, oh, I see one person actually like, like rocking my song and enjoying it. No, that's yeah.
[00:57:10] Blake: That's, that's pretty cool. Yeah. All right. If you're out there and you're listening to this. 
[00:57:14] Needlz: Yeah, yeah,
[00:57:18] Needlz: yeah. So, I mean, it's, it's been a lot of cool moments, but I never really get caught up in what I have going on. Like it's like, people will always like either see my house or see whatever. And they're like, oh my God, you're doing so great. And all that stuff. But to me, there are levels to it. Do you know what I mean?
[00:57:41] Needlz: Like there's like, this is cool, but this is, I have there's I want to go a lot further than this. Totally people are saying, oh, you're so humble or you're so not phased, but I'm just like, man, I just got so much. I love the way you set goals. 
[00:58:01] Blake: Yeah. So goals are short. Like every single time, it seems like you keep the charts like, well, how are you trying to make an impact now that you've done all these 
[00:58:11] Needlz: things.
[00:58:12] Needlz: Great question. A great question. So now I'm at the point where you know, I've had number ones in like five different genres. So that's a goal of mine. Put that I'm putting this out there. I need a country. Number one. In Latin number one, those are, those are two of my goals. 
[00:58:32] Blake: Is there any genre you won't 
[00:58:33] Needlz: produce?
[00:58:34] Needlz: No, I mean, I got a noise rock band
[00:58:41] Needlz: but as long as it's like, I really want to see on billboard charts in as many categories as possible because I have a number one, urban number one pop number one, rhythmic, number one, urban AC. And I feel like I'm missing one, but I really want to get, like, I want to run, cover the ground. I want to cover the ground just to show people how versus versatile I am.
[00:59:05] Needlz: So, so, so yeah, that's, that's one thing, but for me, I'm at the point to where I want to discover the artist and I want to. Produced whole albums and really create vibes that people can live with and create superstars. Do you know what I mean? Like we're in this age now where there are so many people coming in the, in the here and they're gone, you know what I mean?
[00:59:28] Needlz: But I don't know that we're creating music and songs that are helping people have long-lasting careers that they come to our offer for forever. That's not the point. Yeah. I think we're in this kind of microwave to make a catchy song. You can think of with a dance that goes with it, make a label, you know, millions of dollars and then you're old news.
[00:59:51] Needlz: Yeah. So it's so fast. It's fast. So now you know more so like let's make something that can last yeah. 
[00:59:58] Blake: Some of that has a real impact on the world or so. Yeah, absolutely. No, that's a, no, I think that's, that's great. Yeah. You know, I was just like, you have a real talent for, you know, finding these stars out there.
[01:00:13] Blake: What's your process like for being able to find somebody that you want to work 
[01:00:16] Needlz: with next? For me, it's just trying to find somebody that's different. First of all, somebody, that's going to stand out or something that in the industry or that's missing in the industry it's a lot harder to be different.
[01:00:26] Needlz: You know what I mean? It's a lot harder to come in the game, standing out. It's a longer path, but ultimately I think you'll have more success in the long run if you're the one setting trends and doing things as opposed to chasing trends and truly because typically at least what rap and I'm kind of like a lot of urban music is like, You gotta be cool.
[01:00:50] Needlz: You gotta be really like on trends, right? Yeah. But it's really, really hard to just be a trendy person. It, it stays, you know what I mean? Because trends, change. 
[01:01:01] Blake: Rappers are the new rock stars, rock 
[01:01:02] Needlz: stars don't exist anymore. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Do you know what I mean? And it's kind of like, you really have to either create something totally different and make that stretch as long as you can, because it's really, really hard to keep adapting because after a while people are gonna see like you're reaching, you know what I mean?
[01:01:24] Needlz: You're like, you're not doing. Yeah, it's natural to, you know, like, you know, why are you now doing dance moves when you started out as a hardcore rapper or something like this? It's like Tik TOK and all that stuff. So, yeah. That's the other thing it's 
[01:01:44] Blake: way more terrible. 
[01:01:45] Needlz: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's really, it's really interesting because it's kinda like the way, the way music is consumed now definitely contributes to a tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock.
[01:02:03] Blake: When I, when I talk to people that run labels, they're like, oh yeah, I found my next band optic. 
[01:02:09] Needlz: Yeah. So labels are reactive. Now. They're not necessarily going out there and finding the talent they're reacting to. What's hot on Tik TOK or what's Instagram. So I'll take, I'll take the most talented person that.
[01:02:25] Needlz: Jen sings her ass off. Looks great. Can dance her ass off. They're great songs, and very personable. Take them up there and they'll pass on it because they don't have, you know, they're, they're not verifying numbers or numbers. They do that all the time. They did it all the time and you know, I could take this frustrating, really frustrating.
[01:02:45] Needlz: So it just kind of forces your hand to, like, if you believe in something like do your own way. Like, I have my own distribution company. I don't need a label to put stuff out. I think because of technology, you don't have to depend on a label to distribute your stuff. Do you know what I mean? It's very cheap to distribute.
[01:03:03] Needlz: So the power of labels they're like slowly losing their grip. They always seem to, it's funny though because they like, cause it's such a, you know, it's a multi-billion dollar industry, so it's like, you'll see them slipping. But then they'll find, they'll find a way to like, stay on it's like, cause they thought things were over when people were like you know, pirating or streaming song like Napster, you know, they thought it was, it thought it was over.
[01:03:34] Needlz: So now they have like Spotify and they're making a shit load of money up from all like Spotify, all the DSP, you know, they're making a time that makes sense. Do you know what I'm saying? They, they found a way, they found a way to position themselves to still get that leverage and make crazy profit margins.
[01:03:51] Needlz: But. The labels that are the artists that are signed to the labels are still signed to these old traditional deals where they're seeing like, pennies is really sad on what they're doing. So I'm curious to see what happens in this, you know, this NFT world. Yeah. And you know, and the fact that there's such a reactive the reactive partners, when there's now there's non-ways to get funding to market yourself.
[01:04:18] Needlz: So you get partnering with. Brands, you know what I mean? Like, oh, you like vans and you can, you know, so if your music is good and you have a plan, you can partner with vans and get some funding to shoot a video and to, you know, so it's a lot of that. There's a lot of that stuff going on. It's really 
[01:04:34] Blake: interesting because I think, I mean, I'm sure you've seen plenty of people get 
[01:04:38] Needlz: pretty broad deals all the time.
[01:04:40] Blake: You know, what is it, a 360 
[01:04:42] Needlz: deal, 360 deals. I mean, it's a, I see both sides of 360 deals because you really invest a lot of time and money into people. Do you know what I'm saying? And if I'm helping you design your merge and I'm producing your merch and you know what I mean? I shouldn't see a cut-up. So I see that part of it, but it's really, it really comes down to the percentages that they're making per you know, like the stuff like per stream, it's like 0.0, zero four, 3 cents.
[01:05:14] Needlz: And it's, it's, it's really, it's really, really sad on what. They're the people in power now, which are the DSPs, Spotify, and the sad what they're doing. But once again, people need to understand that we still have the power. We, we still can sell stuff off of our own websites. We can, you know, I know kind of each other, or is doing this whole stem player thing.
[01:05:40] Needlz: I mean, there are so many different ways. And because of, you know, with analytics, you're able to hone in on who your actual following is and market directly to them. So it's definitely possible. Yeah. There's, there's, there's definitely options and it could be more lucrative in the long run. You just have to have a good team that recognizes it.
[01:05:57] Needlz: Yeah. 
[01:05:58] Blake: Yeah. I mean, you've taken a lot under your own wing and like you're doing a lot of things on your own. You also, I mean, on top of music and, and everything, you're also doing a 
[01:06:08] Needlz: documentary. Yeah. So It's, it's funny. I. I've always thought my life was somewhat interesting in the fact that I'm an entrepreneur, my wife's entrepreneur we have this autistic child who is just, it's just, it's a challenge, but she's just hilarious.
[01:06:29] Needlz: We have, you know, my older child, who's an actress who's been in like, you know, movies and, you know, she's a musician herself. So it's, it's on a day-to-day basis that there's so much kind of like there are so much comedy slash life lessons that we go through as a family that I always thought would be cool to document in whatever way.
[01:06:54] Needlz: So like so I had one guy kind of following us around for a while. And, and, you know, just to put it together, something, I didn't know exactly what it was and stopped and something happened where he lost all the footage. Why? Yeah. So after following us around for like a year or something, something just something crazy happened.
[01:07:17] Needlz: So then I kind of didn't think much about it until I was doing some ad work for this agency. And they just, you know, I was doing something for some, something they were pitching, and they kind of just saw my life, how I was always on the phone. You know, juggling, you know, picking up my kids and my wife and doing all these things.
[01:07:41] Needlz: And they, they saw it as a very. Interesting piece. So they asked me to follow me around for, you know, like six months and stuff like that. So, they followed me around and kind of get a chance to see the family dynamic and came up with this really, really powerful piece. It's like 12 minutes, as a short sort of documentary.
[01:08:04] Needlz: And it's called as long as I got you and it really kind of highlights the relationship with my daughter and I, my autistic daughter and us going to therapies and you know, how she loves music and all these overarching kind of family dynamics. So yeah, that was something that we face. Yeah, it is.
[01:08:22] Needlz: It is. I'm going to give you guys a link to it, but it's something that we did while at this point, like three years ago, no, about two years ago. And we didn't put it out immediately because we want it to give to the film festivals. And so we got a call back from one, but we didn't make it into whatever final thing.
[01:08:38] Needlz: So then we were going to start distributing and distributing it via maybe Netflix or something like that. Cause they have shorts, but then COVID happens. And then so, but we, we still plan on using that documentary as a piece for one of our other initiatives, which in this campaign is complicated, moving autism where we have, we are going to purchase a mobile, a mobile bus that will go around to low-income neighborhoods and help diagnose underprivileged kids.
[01:09:06] Needlz: Cause a lot of times, yeah, they don't, they don't really get access to two therapies and they don't really know where to go. So the bus was going to kind of travel around the city. So it started with that and that's very much going to happen, but now we've leveled that up even more to a center. We just bought some land off  Memorial and there's going to be a center for autistic kids and stuff like that.
[01:09:30] Needlz: A lot of, as a family, we do at times because that's, that's 
[01:09:33] Blake: amazing. You know, I, Iad a guest on the podcast not too long ago, so I should totally connect with you. Her name is Missy and she just founded a company called beaming health their mission is to re-imagine autism. So they're wanting to partner with people.
[01:09:48] Blake: In the autism movement and all of that. So now I just thought of that. I'll have to. Yeah. So for you, you and your wife, you know, you're both entrepreneurs what's yeah. What's that like, how do you support each other? 
[01:10:04] Needlz: It's funny because we both wake up and look at each other, like, what are you doing today?
[01:10:09] Needlz: What are you doing today? And we were like, I don't know, just hustling. And then we just
[01:10:16] Needlz: and then it's just like nonstop meetings. It's non-stop I mean, we're, you know, we're meeting with contractors because we're building things like I have a whole set of contractors building a studio, she just finished with contractors, building her boutique too. You know, therapy for my daughter too, is so many different things that happened in the course of a day.
[01:10:44] Needlz: It's just like a blur, but it all gets done. We try our best to communicate and, we try to give each other our, our time and our space to work. So the challenge for me is working during the day only because I always get called into stuff. Like man, that stuff like my, my son, literally for you guys got here, he was begging me to bring him subway for a lunch.
[01:11:08] Needlz: I'm like, I'm gonna bring you somewhere for lunch. Like, I mean, it's just, non-stop. You know, the dog it's nonstop stuff being at home. That's one thing where if I have a place and I'm not as accessible at my studio, it'll definitely help. But it's a lot of a push and pulls and just understanding that the person at the end of the day, we're both trying to chase our dreams.
[01:11:30] Needlz: And and we both align on just, I mean, we both have similar aspirations on a building. Like we built this house, we love building things, you know what I mean? So so that's, that's a big part of what we have going on in the future. We're at this point, we're developers now, 
[01:11:46] Blake: you know what I mean? It's like, y'all 
[01:11:46] Needlz: are a great match.
[01:11:47] Needlz: Yeah. I'll give her a lot of the credit because there was a lot of stuff that I just, just didn't think we would do or have the foresight, like, see, she picked this land. We, she, we purchased this piece of land that we're sitting on now. I mean, years and years ago after she walked by. And Ted, I want to, I always wanted to do this and I'm like, yeah, we'll never be able to do it, whatever we ever afford.
[01:12:11] Needlz: It's just like, we weren't able to afford that house that we ended up buying and she's like, yes, we can. Yes, we can. We can do what we can do it. And then when we ended up doing it and I'm like, holy shit, 
[01:12:20] Blake: I won't drop your location. This is an amazing spot. It's an amazing spot. Yeah. It's gorgeous. I'm like, I'm like, dang, I want to do the MTV, Chris.
[01:12:30] Needlz: Yeah. We where, where, you know, that's all a part of like what I really want to do with some kind of reality show, but it has to be done tastefully. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
[01:12:40] Blake: I'm here, you know, so, you know, I think too, to kind of close this out, what I usually like to ask is, is there any advice you'd give to somebody that's maybe in a position that you were in.
[01:12:50] Blake: Tenure or whatever a chunk of time ago that you'd say, Hey, you know, 'cause it's 
[01:12:55] Needlz: so hard. Yeah. It's hard. So it's, it's very, very hard to become successful in the music industry. I would say more so now than ever because once again, technology has allowed so many people to be involved. And so many people will look at it as an opportunity to just make money.
[01:13:14] Needlz: You know what I mean? But I think the people that win and I would say, you, you really have to love what you do and you always would, you know, want to push the genre or whatever you're trying to do for because if not, you'll, if you're trying to make money, once again, you'll get stuck trying to be trendy and trends change, and you get kind of phased out relatively quick.
[01:13:36] Needlz: But if you're known as somebody that can make radio records or timeless music, Then you, you know, your phone will always ring. Like I rarely am calling people. I'll wake up to like call us because people will know what I kind of bring to the table. But I would just say, you know, chase your dreams.
[01:13:55] Needlz: Like it, it's theirs. It'll never feel like work. If you're literally out there doing what you love, no matter how hard it gets out, how much of a struggle it is. It, you know, it's the best feeling to make a living off of making music that loves to chase your dreams, be persistent, save your money trust in God.
[01:14:21] Needlz: And if it happened to me, I mean, it could definitely happen. It could definitely happen. Yeah. So just yeah. Keep at it. 
[01:14:28] Blake: Yeah. I mean, it's hard to do things you love, but it's probably harder to do things that 
[01:14:33] Needlz: solve. Yeah. That's the thing, that's the thing. Or, you know, I mean, and, and people think, when I say, dude, do what you love.
[01:14:40] Needlz: It's just like, I'm not saying quit your job immediately and stuff like that. But like put those hours in after you get off of work, it's just like like you don't sleep. I still don't sleep. Like I don't, there's no time. I don't have time to sleep in and just play video games. Like I'm literally working.
[01:14:59] Needlz: If I'm not working you know, all my career, I'm working on myself. Like I'm trying to work out and stay in shape before that, like, I don't know how to play keys well, but now I'm like, you know what I need to learn. So I got a piano teacher to teach me writing. Aren't really just weren't. And so it's like never getting stagnant, never getting stagnant.
[01:15:20] Needlz: You got to evolve and. And, and always know that there's another level of, of, and there's also, there's somebody out there that's doing exactly what you're doing and working a lot harder than you. So, I mean, it's really a competitive thing I hear. Yeah. 
[01:15:38] Blake: Yeah. No, that's, that's so great, but it has been an absolute pleasure getting to talk to you.
[01:15:43] Blake: It's great to meet you for people that are trying to find you out there. Could you, you know, what are your links where, you know, working 
[01:15:49] Needlz: with Instagram is produced by Needlz, but spelled P R O D B Y Needlz, Ms. And E D L Z. Feel free to hit me up there. Or our culture group.com. That's my label.
[01:16:02] Needlz: You'll start to see a lot more stuff. With that, with that the company kind of come up, we got a big announcement. We're just waiting for some things to go through you to be a good partner to someone at a partner with, for this, for this venture. But yeah, I mean, I'm not on Twitter as much, but it's really just hit me up on Instagram.
[01:16:18] Needlz: That's probably the best, the best medium. Cool. And yeah, I always, I always respond and it'd be what that's great. 
[01:16:26] Blake: Yeah. All right. Well, Hey, thanks for coming on. This is our episode of the gym series with Needlz. Thanks. Thanks 
[01:16:35] Needlz: man. Great.
[01:16:40] Blake: Thank you for joining us on this episode of the gym series, the podcast for anybody dedicated to investing in themselves. If you'd like to see the resources mentioned in this episode, learn more about what we're up to at rocket level, or come over and join our team. Just click on the links below until next time.
[01:16:56] Blake: This is Blake Chapman, and remember to be awesome and do awesome.