Speaker 1 (00:00:01) - Welcome to the G.E.M. Series powered by RocketLevel. On this podcast, we empower entrepreneurs to succeed by setting big goals, executing like a pro, and having a fearless mindset. The series is all about investing in yourself. We're here to share the path to getting what you want out of life, by sharing the stories of entrepreneurs who have done this themselves, providing thorough research from our team on what careers and habits are yielding the best results, and discussing the mindset it takes to overcome the obstacles that all future entrepreneurs will face. Investing in yourself starts with putting in the work every single day, and this podcast is here to help you do exactly that. My name is Blake Chapman. I'm the vice president of the ambassador program here at RocketLevel, and I am thrilled to be your host for the G.E.M. Series. Hello, everybody, and welcome to today's episode of The G.E.M. Series. I am honored to welcome John to the podcast. John, how are you doing today?

Speaker 2 (00:00:56) - Hey. Doing great. Thanks for having me, Blake.

Speaker 1 (00:00:58) - You know, I've been digging into the everything that you've been doing. And I got to say, I think it's it's such an incredible story that I, you know, I was I was just so excited to get to share this with our guests. If you wouldn't mind, would you mind sharing just a little bit about yourselves so that for people that haven't heard about you before, they can, you know, get a little a little spiel from you?

Speaker 2 (00:01:19) - Yeah, of course. My name is Josh and Tanner. I run a coaching program where we help people become profitable freelance recruiters, and most people don't have prior recruiting experience, and we genuinely help them get launched up and running, pick a niche and make their first like 20 K in 90 days, right? While holding their part time job. So they can do this on the side while, you know, without quitting their job right away. So that's kind of what we do.

Speaker 1 (00:01:47) - And, you know, you came from the recruiting world initially before kind of arriving where you where you're at currently, right?

Speaker 2 (00:01:56) - Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:01:56) - So I actually fell into recruiting like most people do. Like nobody like majors in recruiting, right. They just kind of fall into it. I actually walked into a staffing firm looking for a job, and they end up recruiting me to work for them, and that's how I got started. And then I kind of kept moving to more boutique firms because, you know, the way that people might not know this, but the way that most recruiting agencies make their money is they'll charge their clients or companies like 20% or more of the candidates first year base salary. So that's why I wanted to keep moving to like more technical firms, firms where we're placing 100 K, 150, 200 K salaried employees, because then we the agency would make 20% of that, right? So they'd be like 20 to $40,000 a pop for every hire. And as a recruiter, working there would get a percentage of that, right, a small percentage. And then one day I just got laid off. I remember that day I walked in on the Monday.

Speaker 2 (00:02:53) - They said, hey, bad news, we're laying off the entire division, including you. I'm like, well, shoot. And then I'm like, can I at least call my clients to like, break the bad news? Like, no, no, we'll we'll call them for you. But so like, on the way home, I actually stopped by a bar, have had a couple of drinks to, like, lick my wounds and wounds and talk a little bit, but then, you know, forget like I have them. So I just called them on a cell phone. I said, hey, sorry I got laid off. My whole division did. I won't be able to send you any more candidates. And what happened was, because I wish I would be able to say, you know, like I had the guts that the moment they laid me off, I said, you know what? I'm going to. I'm off to my own. I'm a branch on my own. Take with me all the best people and start my own.

Speaker 2 (00:03:32) - Like, pull Jerry Maguire, right? That's not what happened at all. What happened was I was like, sad, depressed, you know, what to do next. But then what happened next was kind of crazy. Where my top two clients, they both said, well, John, well, that's bad news, but, like, why don't you go do your own thing? Why did you become a freelancer and a freelance recruiter? And we'll sign with you. So I'm like, oh, wow. And it was because of their encouragement, they gave me the boost and confidence to actually step out and branch out on my own. So kind of the the getting laid off was the push I needed to even explore this and the encouragement from my clients who, like, liked me, believe in me. So it was really. Yeah. So it really remember how important it was to have that outside support to like even give us a shot. And so I thought to myself, you know what, I'm getting some unemployment money coming in.

Speaker 2 (00:04:20) - I'll give it 90 days, see if I can even make something happen. And sure enough, you know, it worked. And then all of a sudden, like, I was doing the exact same job I did before, except this one I was doing under my own, like, umbrella. And the moment I made my first deal, I was like, Holy cow, this is like $16,000. I still remember $16,000 fee. And I kept all over myself. I'm like, wait, I don't have to give most of this to the house, to the agency, right? Like I can keep all of this. So all of a sudden I'm like, oh my God, thank you. I went ran to that boss. A year later, I think I'm like, thank you for for for laying me off. I would never have started my own agency. I make way more money now. I have way more fun and flexibility and freedom. Thank you, thank you. She's like, okay, like, this guy's crazy.

Speaker 2 (00:05:01) - Yeah, yeah, I think I was at the bar, so I was a little tipsy. But thank you so much for letting me off. And they're like, okay, that's pretty funny.

Speaker 1 (00:05:08) - No, I think it's remarkable though, being able to, you know, be faced with a scenario like that and then, you know, it's it's it's just so fascinating to me how humans have this desire in them to want to see people that they like thrive. You know, we're we're just drawn to that. So all those people that you helped out, it's it's so cool that that they reached out and were like, and just give this a shot, you know, give try, try freelance for just a little bit. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:05:39) - Absolutely. And then and by the way, what ended up happening like kind of how it went from recruiting to coaching was that I didn't plan to do that either. It was I think right after I sold my agency, I was wondering what to do next. And a couple of my old coworkers from the firm that got laid off from had reached out to me and said, hey, John, like my manager just changed my commission structure.

Speaker 2 (00:05:59) - I'm really pissed. Or like, you know, they had some grievances with their corporate job and they're like, you know what? I think I'm ready to try and make it out on my own. I heard you're doing well. Can you give me some pointers? And so I'm like, I'd be happy to. And and so as I started giving them some tips and kind of give them the process I kind of created for myself through trial and error, because at the time, like ten years ago, there were no coaches or mentors or programs to help people start their own business and recruiting. It's a very niche thing, right? And so when I kind of gave them my playbook, I saw them get clients and make recruiting deals for placements super fast. What took me years to like, figure out, like they did in weeks. I'm like, I was so happy for them. And then I'm like, you know what? Maybe I'll just kind of keep doing this for a little while, and this kind of one on one coaching thing end up turning into kind of a full blown program where we now have a team of coaches, daily coaching calls, and we put like over 300 people through a program now.

Speaker 2 (00:06:52) - And it's been really satisfying to see, like, people just quit their full time jobs and like, have the freedom and like, escape an environment where they feel like they were stuck for so long. Yeah. And actually like, did this and they all did it kind of part time so they didn't have to like, risk it all. They could just do it on the side. Right. And now with automation, all the tools that the market that I've learned that I teach, like they don't have to do it manually. They can just set it and forget it too. Right? So it's really nice and really happy with everything so far.

Speaker 1 (00:07:20) - Cool that you got to align with your with your passion a bit more too. You know, it's it's it's one of those things, I think those existential type of questions, which is there's just so many people out there that are yeah, just maybe hoping that they can they can align their passion with the work that they're doing because mean we're going to we spend a significant amount of our life doing it.

Speaker 1 (00:07:43) - So it's it's so important. Yeah. You know, and whenever you were talking about that kind of 90 day period, it kind of reminded me it's, it's funny, I an exercise I do with some of my employees, whenever they're really needing to build pipeline and make something happen. I'm like, I'm like, look, just pretend this is your business. You just started it. You have 90 days or you don't get to do it anymore. What are you going to do? And I think it's amazing that you were kind of faced with that, that actual scenario. So tell me, what was it like building the, you know, building, doing the groundwork and figuring out your playbook and all of that kind of stuff?

Speaker 2 (00:08:21) - Oh, yeah. You know, I'd be lying if I say that I wasn't, like, scared. I had all this huge imposter syndrome, both with, like, starting my own recruiting business and like, eventually the coaching piece of it is that, like, at first, like, I was like, hey, why would a big company a large or why would a hiring manager of VP or director level hiring manager choose to hire me like little me, a one person shop when they could work with the Randstad or the Nelsons or the Robert half of the world.

Speaker 2 (00:08:51) - These are large, multi million dollar staffing companies that have all these resources, right? Why would they work with me? And it wasn't until I realized that at the end of the day, the hiring manager only cares about one thing, which is like, do you have a good candidate for me? So if you can just bring a good candidate to the table when you talk to them, they're like, okay, so they don't care who you are. Like at the end they realize they don't care my name, the name of my business, my logo, like all they care about, was to deliver them a good candidate to help them solve their hiring pain. And when I figured that out, that's where kind of the fear and the imposter syndrome kind of started to melt away. And then years later, when I started launching the coaching program, same thing. I was like, do people even want this? Like, I figured this out, like, took me a few years, but I figured out myself, do people even want coaching or help with this? And then and so that same thing.

Speaker 2 (00:09:42) - Right. And so yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:09:43) - Yeah. You know, and and that's the thing too is I think people don't realize that businesses are starting to desire to partner directly with more of these, you know, boutique type of type of folks anyways, because that's what guess what they have about. Of all of these massive entities. They have, you know, autonomy, the ability, the agility, the ability to really custom tailor a solution to somebody without any of the kind of like typical bureaucracy that you might run into whenever partnering with an organization like that. So I'm sure you've I don't know, you might have experienced that firsthand too.

Speaker 2 (00:10:20) - Yeah. You know, it's funny, like, I hear that more now from our program members or even people who are potentially interested in doing this or freelance recruiting or getting help with is that they're like, well, I don't have a degree. I don't have any experience in recruiting. Can I still do this? Right? And it turns out it's funny, like we actually recently ran a report and we found that, like over 70% of all the people we've helped don't have a recruiting background.

Speaker 2 (00:10:45) - What they do have is like they have an industry experience. They worked for X number of years in IT, or health care or product management or something very specific. And they're like, well, like, I can probably help hiring managers find people like me better than a general generalist recruiter can because they're not a practitioner in my field. Right. Or it typically it's frustration. They're like, wait, I had I talked to this kind of like annoying newbie, a recruiter who just, like forwarded my resume to the client, got hired, and that guy just made 20% of my salary just by forwarding my resume. And he barely kind of understood what I did. He kind of was like checking off keywords, like checking the checking boxes, but I know better than him, so I could probably do his job way better. So that's what I think inspires a lot of people to do this. And I think also a lot of times people will kind of say, hey, like, I'm a people, people person.

Speaker 2 (00:11:34) - I like to connect with people, I like to help people. So they're like, I'm always helping people get jobs. I have a pretty good network because I've been doing my thing, whatever I do for a number of years. And so I tend to like, help people land jobs and just make connections. And then one lady, I won't forget, she said her friend told her like, hey, are you used to making $20,000 favors for people? And she's like, huh? I said, yeah, that's what companies pay. Like freelance recruiters like 20% of a salary or 20 K typically for exactly what you just did and what she realized, she was like leaving money on the table. She's like, oh, you know, I could have been charging money for this. That's when she's like, you know what? Let me just turn this to a business and get paid for helping people find jobs or helping companies find talent.

Speaker 1 (00:12:15) - Man. And I just think it's incredible that that, you know, the service that you've been providing to these people.

Speaker 1 (00:12:22) - So what was your. Yeah. What was your mindset like? Because I know you talked a little bit about imposter syndrome. I've dealt with the exact same thing too, you know, and how how did you navigate that and, you know, mean or how do you how could anybody else navigate it if they were in that kind of thing?

Speaker 2 (00:12:41) - Yeah. So what I the way I had to like, break it down was I, if my first initial goal is, hey, I'm going to become this big, you know, guru and have a huge following and, and be hugely successful. And then that just kind of like scared me. Like, oh, it was like all that was a lot of pressure. So you know what? Forget I'm just going to help 1 or 2 people for free. Right. And and then and that's what I did. I said I just helped my friends for free. I said, hey, by the way, if if this works and you get results like, would you mind giving me like a little testimonial thing? And they're like, sure.

Speaker 2 (00:13:14) - So my first batch of people were just for free pro bono, but I got some case studies and then just having those on my website, on my LinkedIn profile, like, you know, I started having a little more confidence because that could be like, oh yeah, you know what? Like help these three people check out, check out my website. And then then the next batch of people, like, let me charge the minimal amount that they'd be willing to pay, right. And then and then just kind of grew from there. So I just kind of broke it down to like, help people for free, help people for like almost nothing, and help people for a little bit more than nothing. And as I got more confident, and I iterate the process and learn more from people directly, like it's funny, like a lot of people to try to do this is they'll try to build everything first and like do the whole if you build it, they will come. And so and I made that mistake I built I spent like six months building the whole program made beautiful videos with like slides and animations because I wanted, because I think my poster syndrome made me feel insecure that like, if this is not a beautiful product, beautiful program, um, it's not good enough, right? And and what ended up happening was I didn't have anything with sales.

Speaker 2 (00:14:21) - It was mostly recruiting because I thought, people want to learn recruiting. And then it turns out that everyone that we worked with want to learn sales. They're like, oh, like I can. Recruiting seems pretty straightforward, offering people jobs, even sending them the job description. It's the sales part. How do I get how do I prospect for potential clients? How do I jump on the call with a director or level hiring manager and like. Have that call go well and end with a signed agreement that they'll pay me if if I find them the right person. Like that part was the most biggest challenge. But for me, I wasn't I totally wasn't aware of that because I had a sales background. So I'm like, okay, sales is easy. Like they're not going to want to learn this. Everyone knows sales. And so, you know, my advice for people who are about to launch anything really is to like, try not to make an assumption from your lens or your shoes because you never know.

Speaker 2 (00:15:10) - So it's best to kind of run lean, right? That's why they have the lean Startup where you have the minimum viable thing and you just talk to people and they'll tell you what they need, and then you can start building, build a version two, version three based on exactly what people tell you they need. And so I did that from day one. I would have saved a lot of time. So that was my version 1.0. And so and a 2.0 was a better version based on their needs. But we added automation. So then because remember one day this is kind of an interesting story too, is that it was a day I had the first person asked me for a refund, right? I was like, I was able to brag for a long time. No one's ever asked for a refund. I work really hard for people. I'll give them good service. But one guy's name was Ryan asked me for a refund and and he goes, hey John, I did everything you told me to.

Speaker 2 (00:15:53) - It's just I just didn't have enough time in the day. I have a full time job demanding I have three kids and the wife and like, can I have a refund? And so I'm like, sure. I felt like, like, let them down. It was it was a sting to like just give back the money because I need that to like do for the business cost. And then then I thought to myself, you know what? And I took total accountability. And this might be related to like the M in your gym, the mindset, I'm like, you know what? Let me let me reframe this mindset. I'm like, you know what? If I were to take full ownership, how did I let him down? How how did I not make this work for him? And when I kind of thought about that, like, you know what he said he didn't have enough time in the day to do, like because things worked when I was able to carve out time, but I just couldn't consistently carve out carve up enough time to do this part time.

Speaker 2 (00:16:38) - So I'm like, oh, I didn't make it easy enough for him. So I like paused enrollment for like a while, took the hit financially. I'm like, no, I'm not going to enroll any more people until I fix this. And I just put on my product hat on and hired coaches who are like, really, I need automation. I need things to be more on autopilot because people don't have hours and hours per day like I did, because when I run, when I ran my recruiting agency, I was doing it full time. So I did like 4 to 5 hours of business development, handwriting messages on LinkedIn, email, cold calling, leaving voicemails. I had the time to do that. So that volume, the sheer volume and effort move the needle. But most people don't do that, especially if they have a full time job and a life. So what I did was I hired a coaches from outside of recruiting, like I hired a LinkedIn automation coach. I hired a mentor for who was really good with email marketing.

Speaker 2 (00:17:30) - I hired a recently hired guy that did a AI video messaging strategy. Things were kind of cutting edge in the world of marketing. That wasn't at all related to recruiting. And recruiting is an old like, timeless industry that hasn't quite really evolved much. And so I brought those tools into recruiting. I tested it myself and then did a 2.0, and the moment we offered automation, like all the results skyrocketed. I'm sure this is this is easy. I just like I took the message I was writing by hand that you told me, John put into the automation, that it ran at scale, high volume, and every day I get three or 4 or 5 people replying back like, hey, I'm interested, tell me more. And all I do is talk to warm leads. This is way easier. And then now we're in the 3.0 version that has more of the videos. Things that like are even pushing because because recruiting is great. It's high margin. It's low. It's low cost to start up.

Speaker 2 (00:18:19) - You don't it's easy to join, but it's easy to do. It's a low barrier to entry, but it's very competitive because of the low barrier to entry. So now with like the AI video, things that we're doing to help stand out from the crowd, right. That becomes even more important. I think for most industries that are competitive makes me.

Speaker 1 (00:18:36) - Yeah. So a few things. One, at the very beginning, I agree, case studies are always so much more powerful than rented Ferrari bills, right?

Speaker 2 (00:18:47) - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:18:49) - It's like hit the ground running, talk to your people and get those case studies to the reason that I think, you know, because I have had the same tendency as well. It really sparked something when you said that about really wanting to make everything perfect. At the end of the day, you know, these people that go out and, you know, really master sales, you'll look at their presentations and I mean, it's like a it's literally like a white slide with black text on it.

Speaker 1 (00:19:16) - And it just has the impact right there. And the reason that they're able to do that is they're going out and they're just talking to people all the time, and they're actually learning, you know. Yeah. And I've you know, I've dealt with the refund thing too. And I think that's so powerful. That's that is such a good mindset shift is, you know, that is that is the perfect opportunity to take insights from somebody that, you know, wanted to get the results that you, you envision for. Or them, but something didn't quite align. And it. You know, the best thing you can do. Yeah you're right. Just take full ownership and then use that as a strength, you know. Yeah. And lean into that. I'm really curious about the I started playing around with some video too. What what are you using for that. Right. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:19:59) - So one of my alumni from the program's name is Ashu, and he created a program called doppio. And it allows you to because.

Speaker 2 (00:20:07) - So here's like one of our, like, strategies that we found most effective is that when I kind of share with you, like, our main approach that we teach people for client acquisition is to run LinkedIn automation, run email automation, which is because all hiring managers are on LinkedIn or email or both. Right? And it kind of cast a wide net. And we find having a solid written message. We have different templates that are proven to work that I've with all my stuff I've used for my agency. Right. And so you use a written message to set at scale, but the moment someone replies back, I'm interested. We found the best way to reply back is through a either a video or at least a audio message, because that's so much more human and creates such a better connection. Like we're on video now, right? Yeah, and on a video, like they can record a colon video where they share the background, share the screen of that person's LinkedIn profile, and they can say, hey, I'm reaching out to you because I figured a video would be easier than you reading a wall of text.

Speaker 2 (00:21:01) - But I saw on your LinkedIn profile just call out 1 or 2 things that jumped out something nice about them. Like you can, you know, flattery always works, and then you can tab over to their company page and say, hey, and I'm reaching out because I saw on your company, you guys offer this and you were voted top five places to work in Seattle. That's impressive. Right? Something also nice. And I'll show them that you did your due diligence too, right? It's not just a high volume type of thing you do. And then you can tab on to their careers page and say, I also know that you're hiring for a link, right? And by the way, like this is exactly this is all we do. We specialize in this niche. And based on those requirements, I actually have someone in mind that could be a great fit. If you're interested, be happy to float their profile over your way. Let me know if that would be of any interest to you.

Speaker 2 (00:21:46) - Thanks. Bye. Right, and you just send that video and by the way, you rename the video like, hey Blake. Yeah, right. So it has their name on it, and the animated thumbnail GIF is like you actually on their LinkedIn profile. So that has like a 100% open rate because they're like, hey, who's this guy? And why? Why are they on my LinkedIn profile? What are they saying about me right now? Of course, like that takes a lot of time. So then the AI video technology allows you to basically do that. But the main thing is having their name in the video, right? Because after the video you're like, hey, first name. Hey, Blake. Hey, Bob. Hey, Jennifer. Yeah, but that way, that way, they feel like it's for them. But I'm like, okay, is there a way that can, like, do this at scale? Because most people say, then they say, I don't have enough time in the day to send videos.

Speaker 2 (00:22:27) - I'm like, okay, here we go again, the time constraint. So the video technology basically allows me to create one template, and then it can capture those screenshots of their LinkedIn profile, their company page, their job page, and then have the word have the first name come out of my mouth right in my own voice by giving them a voice sample and I can spit out. So is it exactly that that really make it just for them? No, but it doesn't look and sound exactly as if I would have like, yes. Right. And so it's a way to kind of mimic that. And I thought, okay, for sure people are going to be like, hey, is this thing authentic? Or it's just some, some trickery, but nobody ever like asks like, hey, thanks. This is awesome. Thank you. And it just so the the call the response to call ratio a book ratio is very high for that. Right. But that's all. And that's something that like you will never learn how to do at a recruiting job because like no one does that right.

Speaker 2 (00:23:20) - Or let alone automation is never taught to recruiters.

Speaker 1 (00:23:22) - That's just that's just hacking it and figuring it out. You know, like that's just.

Speaker 2 (00:23:26) - Yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:23:27) - Like, man, I need some like I need to find my time multipliers. So are you going into like LinkedIn and utilizing the, the job listings and then running automations to target like job listings?

Speaker 2 (00:23:41) - Exactly. Yeah, exactly. You see, you go on LinkedIn or indeed see who's posting a job in your area, in your field. And then basically you can hire like a virtual assistant to go and just like capture like the find them, find their LinkedIn profile for the company page and like capture it all. So basically what you do a couple of times you can just hire someone for a few bucks an hour, a virtual overseas virtual assistant who's very good. They can just do this for you. So ideally you don't even do anything. You record one template and it's all done for you. But this is like advanced stuff that like I recommend that people like step one have everything be on the automation with a written message.

Speaker 2 (00:24:18) - Right? Just standard written message. Do that for 30 days and then you have like a control data. Based on this. You expect to have 1 or 2 meetings per week booked. Now you have this control group. Let's try to kind of apply the scientific method. Now can can my video message strategy beat my control group. Yes. Sometimes it does. Sometimes it doesn't. Because if you are awkward shy and video you don't like being on. Camera. Okay, listen. You're better off just using the written message, right? Like. But if you like, be on camera and you enjoy, and you have this charisma that oozes, then sure that you will beat the control group. And so worst case, you can always fall back to your rhythm message. This is getting kind of advanced in the lead stuff, but it is like love. I do love what you mentioned the time multiplier, because when you have a demanding career and a family and a life and you want to sleep then or you have children like all these things, that it's hard to do as much as you want to do in a day unless you are able to work smart, not just work hard, right?

Speaker 1 (00:25:16) - Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (00:25:17) - You know, I had a really great conversation just a couple of days ago with a gentleman, Ernie Svenson. He goes, Ernie the attorney. And what he does is he automates processes for law firms and shows them how to get some time back so that they can run their small firm with far more autonomy. Being an attorney is a very taxing career. I'm sure most people can can guess, you know, and that was one of the things that that really stuck out to me is the 8020 principle and how he he explains that, right. The ability to, you know, let's say you have 100 units of, of energy available, right? How do you leverage 20 units to get an 80% return? And you know that, you know, that really struck a chord with me. Um, something not to switch gears, but I just want to make sure I don't forget to ask you about this, too. I got to ask, have you always been this curious? Because it seems like you're constantly.

Speaker 1 (00:26:20) - And I really admire that constantly, you know, trying to problem solve and figure out the next thing. Yeah. Have you always been like that or is that something helped over time or.

Speaker 2 (00:26:31) - Yeah, I think it's probably from like, yeah, my, my incessant need that like I can always do better. I mean I had a very strict parents, right. So it's like okay, they're always like, okay, I can always do better. There's always more I can do, which is a double edged sword. Right? Because then it's a lot of times I'm not as satisfied or content as I rarely feel long moments of feeling content. I'm always like, wait, there's always something better. But usually it comes from the clients in the program where like when I start hearing things that like there's a hey, this isn't quite work as well as it used to. Like, I take that personally, right? I feel personally responsible for everyone's success because they they invested their time, their money into the program.

Speaker 2 (00:27:08) - And I want to give them the best. And I always feel like if it's like whenever someone has like a complaint, like, hey, my messaging thing isn't working or this or that, or I'm running out of time in the day to get everything done, I'm thinking, no, because somebody has a better mousetrap. This. Yeah, someone else is already solved for this. So let me go ahead and find that solution for them. Right. So when the first guy said, hey, I don't have enough time, that got me to get animation. When people said, hey, I feel like everyone's doing LinkedIn animation, that got me to innovative video. Now we're about to roll out our 4.0 version of the program, which is basically the people spend like the first 3 or 4 weeks. It's very common to like do like administrative stuff, like build their website, their logo, integrate the calendar booking thing. And that's all great. It feels it's such a big trap because it feels productive, but at the end of the day, it doesn't move the needle forward because they're not getting any clients right, working on their contracts.

Speaker 2 (00:28:05) - And this and so we're like, okay. And I keep hearing that like, oh, hey, you know, we haven't I haven't gotten results yet. It's been two months. And I realize I spent the first month just doing admin stuff. We're like, okay, how can we make this even faster? So in January we're launching a basically an all the one platform where we'll have a recruiting business out of the box that will build for people, that will have all the integrations, have all the automations, the sequences, all the scripts pre-built. So it's like literally all you have to do is by the end of our onboarding call, you'll know your niche. You'll have the all all systems set up. We'll just put it will launch it for you, and you're off and running like so. That way people can get launched within 48 hours or not two months. So that's kind of the next thing, because whenever we see people complain or like seeing people struggle, I'm like, I feel like I'm it's my job and it is my job to help them solve their struggles.

Speaker 2 (00:28:58) - So that's kind of why do that, I guess.

Speaker 1 (00:29:01) - Yeah, yeah. My only concern is you might be making it too easy for them, you know?

Speaker 2 (00:29:06) - Well, at the end of the day, you know, recruiting is a people, people person's job, right? It's all about people. Right. And so at the end of the day, they still have to like talk to the hiring manager, talk to a candidate. And so I want them to spend most of their time having those good conversations that lead to them, you know, finding great talent for their clients and less time doing manual outreach or less time doing that. So if I can solve for that, at least I can have them spend most of their time doing the 80/20 thing. Right. And that 20% that gets 80% results, we found, is just having more and more calls, at least 3 or 5 calls every week with perspective. Of clients, hiring managers who need help hiring good talent. And, you know, you you know, it's funny, like one of the things that jumped out at me when you mentioned the 8020 rule is like one of the big things that we do is we help people pick a niche, right? We have a niche discovery process to hone an exact niche on what they should recruit on based on their specific background, interests, passions and what the market's looking.

Speaker 2 (00:30:04) - So we have this whole process. And then once you have a niche stick with it because then give it some time. Then let's say fast forward a few months. They have five clients. They're all looking. They're all in the same niche. Let's say it's like cybersecurity engineer for example. Then when you have when you have a niche and this probably applies to even outside of recruiting. But when you have a niche and recruiting and you have five companies all looking for the same, let's say cybersecurity analyst, then you can take that one candidate that you find who's a rock star and then submit them to all five clients and get them interviewing for all five of your clients right now. Then ideally, you find 2 or 3 more of those people, have them all. Interview with all five clients. Now. Your odds of getting one or all of them hired is very, very high. And at the end of the day, you don't really care which company which which client hires each candidate, because you'll get paid regardless.

Speaker 2 (00:30:54) - And so but and that's like the working smarter not hard. Right. Like having all the clients in the same niche is that 20% that gets you 80% of your 20 fees versus having like 3 or 4 different clients, all in different verticals. One once, once hiring a salesperson, once hiring an engineer, once hiring a bookkeeper, an accountant. And now you're just spinning your wheels. It feels good because you're busy, but you're actually not leveraged, right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:31:19) - No. And that's I mean, that can and that's just a that's just a mess. I mean, I much prefer to be able to work do the system that you just, just recommended. Also just from a sales perspective, I mean creates scarcity and absolutely would increase that urgency for somebody to to make a decision, you know, if you've got a talented guy and he's going to five companies, they're going to be like, hey, this is a good guy, we've got to jump on it. You know? Exactly.

Speaker 2 (00:31:43) - Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:31:43) - And the deal you want to make sure they're all your companies because it's funny. A lot of times you talk to somebody or like, we help people, we specialize in helping people find passive candidates. Right? People who are not actively looking for a job because those people tend to be, you know, like if they're unemployed, on the couch, sending the resume to every job out there, they're probably not like the premium level candidate that your clients would expect, right? Because they're, you know, you're charging them a premium fee, so they expect a premium level person. So then we help people target passive candidates. People are not looking who are heads down sometimes working for a competitor of your client. And basically our job is to poach them like just quietly engage with them, convince them to even take a call with a recruiter and then convince them to, like, be curious enough to even explore an initial interview with your client. Right? And in any case, like because of that, like you get you get results a lot easier, right? So that way.

Speaker 2 (00:32:38) - Yeah. So that's another thing about doing that.

Speaker 1 (00:32:40) - That's a really great tip. What's one of the most interesting ways you've ever had to poach a candidate? I'm curious.

Speaker 2 (00:32:46) - Yeah sure.

Speaker 1 (00:32:47) - Well so a number of you have probably seen the words RocketLevel thrown around a little bit here and there, and I wanted to take a moment just to explain what that is. So the G.E.M. Series comes from RocketLevel, who is somebody that I work with directly? And RocketLevel is a marketing technology company that specializes in meeting the unique needs of small and medium sized businesses. So over the years, through strategic collaborations with national brands, franchise groups and local partners, RocketLevel has become a trusted ally for SMBs operating in the market. And right now, RocketLevel's primary focus is to provide a comprehensive range of marketing solutions for SMBs, including website development, SEO, paid ads, email marketing, social media management, and just about anything you can think of by offering a done for you approach. RocketLevel takes care of all aspects of digital marketing, allowing SMBs to focus on their core business operations.

Speaker 1 (00:33:47) - I know that everybody talks about this all the time. It's so hard to focus on the fulfillment side of things and been an absolute honor getting to partner with RocketLevel throughout the years and be able to see them provide a solution for people that maybe don't have the talent right now. Maybe you don't have the time and maybe don't have the playbook or the tools available. It truly is buttoned up in such a way that you can give somebody your high level objectives and get this stuff knocked out. So if you're curious, you should definitely, definitely give us a shout. What's one of the most interesting ways you've ever had to poach a candidate? I'm curious.

Speaker 2 (00:34:22) - Yeah, sure. Well, I think a lot of times people want intrigue, just curiosity. So like, you know, like I've left voicemails to say like, hey, Blake, listen, you and I haven't spoken before, but I just had a meeting with a VP of engineering for a company in your niche. You. I'm sure you know exactly who this company is.

Speaker 2 (00:34:43) - And your name came up in that meeting specifically for a stealth mode project they're working on. They really are looking for someone. Exactly. With your skill set. And listen, this asked me to reach out to you to see if you might be even open to exploring the opportunity. And if you do want to jump on a quick five minute call, I'd be happy to tell you exactly who the company is, what this stealth project is, exactly what they're looking to pay, and, you know, think some people may think this role is stronger than the one you're currently in. But anyways, not sure if this would even interest you, but if so, you know, be happy to just fill you in on the details like thanks, bye. And maybe we do that in a video form too, right? And that has intrigue baked into there. Like that's really good. But like and so yeah you do stuff like that right.

Speaker 1 (00:35:29) - Yeah. Absolutely. I, you know I, I just love, you know, the ability to constantly figure out new ways to get in front of some of these, some of these candidates out there.

Speaker 1 (00:35:41) - And, and I think that, you know, sales and recruiting is, is shifting a little bit in that, you know, the same the same old tricks just don't quite not that not tricks per se. But you know, traditional sales is just changed quite a bit. There's a lot more subtlety and nuance in the way that we communicate with each other, and you've got to really get a good hook into.

Speaker 2 (00:36:05) - Well, I think that's the thing. Like with recruiting, I think with even other entrepreneurial ventures too, is that like, I feel like I'm always aware of opportunity costs, right? Meaning like if I'm if I have a call, like if I'm even able to get the or even get the call if I reach out to a potential client, let's say, and this is like a hiring manager, I only have one chance to make a good first impression. Sure. And if my messaging isn't dialed in, my my LinkedIn is not optimized. A website is not dialed in. There's a chance that they might be like they might not respond.

Speaker 2 (00:36:40) - It might be say thanks, no thanks. And then let's say, you know, months later, I finally figure it out. It's hard to reach back out to reopen that door, because you can see on LinkedIn, like the previous message there said no thing. So once that door closes, it is very hard to reopen that door, re-engage with them. So I find that best is to like. Do the right way the first time. And from personal experience, I burned through so many potential awesome clients because I just was doing trial and error. So that's why, like, it's nice. People have told me, hey John, we really like to offer the easy button. And just like they can sleep better at night knowing that they're not, you know, winging it and burning through what could be. Because in recruiting, like, each client might not just be one client, one hire, one placement, 120 deal. And that's it. You never know which company is going to be your like top client can be your key account that gives you repeat business every, every month because they love you.

Speaker 2 (00:37:35) - They keep they're always hiring, they're growing. And they and they end up becoming like multi six figure revenue generating opportunities. You never know. So I always treat every call with a client like this. Could be ten hires over two years that I'm going to be making with him. So yeah. So that's why I'm always so particular about like just get everything, everything dialed in. Maybe that's why when you ask me, hey, like, why are you so curious about iterating? Like, everything so much? Because you never know who you're making $100,000 from, right? And so I was one half of my best foot forward.

Speaker 1 (00:38:06) - Now that's that's absolutely true. So, you know, as somebody that's, you know, obviously running a thriving, incredible business, how do you draw the line between working on the business and working in the business. And do you have any advice whenever for some client.

Speaker 2 (00:38:24) - I yeah, I do. So so recently I've had a big focus on yeah, removing myself from the weeds of the business and I didn't know how to do it.

Speaker 2 (00:38:38) - So I actually, you know, I'm big on hiring coach, so I hired a coach specifically. His program is called the Replaceable Founder. And the idea is not to replace yourself and, like, leave the business, but replace yourself from a lot of day to day so you can focus on like, the 1 or 2 things that really are in your zone of genius. Right? Yeah. And so I hired a coach. His name was to help me, and he taught me a framework called a OAO, right. And O is a optimize automate outsource right. Optimize automate also because so first of all, John, you want had to optimize everything. And I recorded videos of me doing everything once I optimized it. Because before you optimize optimize something you try to scale it or automated, it could break and you just optimizing things are suboptimal, right? Makes sense. But think people jump to automation too fast. So before you jump to automation, just kind of dial in the process. Once I dialed everything in, had SOPs written, then I use automation, and then and once, then once automation was maxed out, then I outsource the people to kind of run the automation.

Speaker 2 (00:39:39) - Right. But specifically, I think this might be more interesting for people. Is that like my baby? So my my 16 year old, 16 month month old son back when he was a baby was really the driving catalyst. Yeah. Thank you. So what happened? So it's funny, without the baby, I probably would have been content, which is doing everything myself, because I was a control freak. Like a lot of entrepreneurs feel like no one could do as well as me. It has to be me. People want to talk to me. And then when my wife says, hey, so listen, you know, we're pregnant. So when the baby comes or yeah, I'm going to take a maternity leave for six months, so you're going to have to pay all the bills, by the way. Right? It's unpaid. So I'm like, okay, time to grow the business. And that drove me to like start hiring people because I need more, more this more help to really grow the business.

Speaker 2 (00:40:26) - And so without that, I probably wouldn't have that urgency. And then when the name is River, when River came around, she was like, hey, now that oh, right. When the baby came, I had this fear, this fear of like her saying, hey, last night, couldn't get any sleep. I really, really need your help today with the baby. And for me had this fear of responding to her. Sorry I can't have eight back to back calls and meetings, right? So I'm like like, yeah. Then the same thing, I'm like, okay, I can't that cannot happen. Like I need to be how to free up my time. So then then I hired this coach to scale. So then it started with me hiring someone to take over marketing and hiring someone to take over operations and. And someone to take over enrollment calls. Right. And then oh, that this is cool. And then now, of course, now that the baby's here, she goes to work and the baby's going like, mama, mama, I'm not crying.

Speaker 2 (00:41:17) - And she's like, literally shedding tears. She closes the door to like, go to work. She's like, I wish I could stay home more. I'm like, okay, time to like, grow, grow to the next level, right? And so it's because of family stuff that drove me to really like. And of course, as a result, things have grown and scaled up, but probably not because kind of like the same thing with me. It took me getting laid off and the external push to like, do something better, do something greater. It was because. So she and the baby were my push to like, scale things up. Not because I wanted to scale into a huge, huge business, but because I just couldn't be. I didn't wanted to be more available, right. And have the resources for her. So that was kind of. I like. Yeah. Over the last year and a half. We really push hard for that.

Speaker 1 (00:42:03) - Yeah. Well, sometimes whenever you feel like you might be backed into a corner or having to navigate a scenario, it's funny because it's like, well, that actually just gave me a wider view of everything.

Speaker 1 (00:42:14) - You know, by being my being tucked away, I get to I get to see kind of the big picture a little bit better. Also, you know, whenever you start hiring for things like that, it gets kind of addictive. You know, once you start it, once you start bringing in these experts and you see it working. Yeah. What was it? Well, I do like to to preface, it's so important, like you said, to make sure that your, your processes are set in place. You have your SOPs like locked in or else you are just hiring people and then setting them up to fail. I mean, it's it's something that, you know, I've seen happen all the time. So how did you kind of lay the groundwork to make sure that these people were ready to rock? And, you know.

Speaker 2 (00:42:59) - Yeah. Well, so for me, it was a big challenge because a lot of people I hired were for jobs that I didn't really quite know how to do, like marketing and client support and tracking the client journey, like things like, I've never quite exactly did that at a high level.

Speaker 2 (00:43:14) - So, you know, for me, as a recruiter, I value other recruiters. So I just hired recruiting agencies that specialize in those things. And just mostly everyone I hired, I paid for. So I hired an agency to find me, you know, enrollment people or specialists on the phone. So like, that's all they do. So they got me great people with their SOPs for how they do their things. And then I hired and then one of my more recent hires was a client success manager, because I started seeing like, you know, we first started doing this group calls with me. And then as the group got bigger, know, I think quality kind of drop like, oh, shoot. Now it's like people have to wait longer on the group call to like answer questions. So I'm like, this is not good. So that that led me to hire more coaches. So now we have daily coaching calls, each call with a specialist for a specific topic. Right. Um, and then and they're very good because I'm very lucky they're all alumni of the program too, right.

Speaker 2 (00:44:08) - So they know everything about it. And then then at that point, so we had daily coaching calls, but people were still like needing more support. So I'm like, you know what? People need one on one support. So I hired a client success manager to give one on one support for every kind of ability buddy that could support them one on one, especially for things that they didn't want to bring up in a group environment, perhaps right. Or couldn't make the group call. But I saw a higher firm that only does customer customer support people, and they had their and they brought their us a piece for like tracking a client journey and benchmarks and anticipating common sticking points and how to get ahead of them. Like that's great. So I think because I pray, you know, same thing, I paid a premium and got premium. People who brought along with them SOPs already that they were able to give me, because at this point, I was hiring for roles that were above my, you know, like level of expertise, right above my like area of expertise.

Speaker 1 (00:45:05) - A lot of times what you're paying for is the the execution is obviously crucial, but mean you're paying for the playbook too, right? Which is like, yeah, man, how are you going to how are you going to actually do this and and make those make those strides? So yeah. Yeah. You know, I think that I think that I don't know, it's just it just gets me pumped up hearing anybody's story like yours where you've, you know, not only built a successful business, but you went out on your own twice and, and made it happen. What would what's been your relationship with, I don't know, just just failure throughout the years. And how do you kind of navigate that stuff? Because that's always a big topic. I know I, you know, I try to share with my listeners and yeah, I'd love to hear your perspective on that.

Speaker 2 (00:45:52) - Oh yeah. Like. It's always a struggle. Like think. Yeah. I read somewhere that like, entrepreneurs are this kind of weird breed was explained to my wife because she's a nurse.

Speaker 2 (00:46:03) - She's very like straight arrow, very risk averse, very stable. And I'm the, you know, entrepreneurs of the opposite. Right? We're just very kind of wild and and, you know, risk takers. And I told her like, yeah, like I think the key ingredients of a successful entrepreneurs, one they like are are very confident to a degree. Right. And they have a vision. Two, they're also kind of insecure to a degree where they feel like they can always do better. So they're always like constantly striving for more. And three is that they're able to tolerate a high level of pain and rejection for a long period of time. And so I think and I just happened to kind of like, yeah, like have those three things. So I think that's what helped fueled me. But I think really like going back to I think the family part of it was a big thing because, yeah, now it's like, okay, before if I failed and I was always scrappy and I failed in a lot of different things, I can always pick myself up.

Speaker 2 (00:46:54) - It was just me, all right. I'm like, okay, I can eat like fast food for a month and just really tighten the belt and I can pick myself back up, right, or rack up some credit cards. Who cares? But now that I'm responsible for a family, I'm like, okay, like. I can't fail in that degree. So like so it really like makes me make better, make better decisions. But I think also like having like my wife as a support like helps me to like, protect me from myself right where I'm like, okay, normally I would swing for the fences here, take this gamble. But now you know what? Let me just be a little more, apply some wisdom to things. So that's helped me kind of balance things out. So I think balance is what's helped me a lot lately.

Speaker 1 (00:47:35) - And it sounds like you found your why along the way too. Right. And and you know, think that's something that everybody you know, spending time, you know, writing and reflecting and being able to to lock into your mission and why you do what you do is just mean.

Speaker 1 (00:47:53) - It's just an essential kind of driving force. And, you know, from from my perspective anyways.

Speaker 2 (00:47:59) - Yeah, absolutely. And it's always and it's funny, like, I think the sad thing is kind of like even as people kind of like progress and level up, there's always like the next level. So it can be this like. You know, like Sisyphus, you can roll in this. I was just thinking. Yeah, right.

Speaker 1 (00:48:14) - Oh.

Speaker 2 (00:48:15) - Yeah. So it's. But it's also maybe, like, maybe the journey of entrepreneurship. It's the nice thing is, is you just playing the game to play the game because you enjoy it. But yeah. But for me, I think one of the things is it's always inspiring for me is like trying to be like, I love being in the room where, like, I'm like the smallest fish in the in the pond, right? People for me to learn from and get value from and get inspiration from. So for earliest year, I signed up for this mastermind of some of the best people in the online coaching space and the program.

Speaker 2 (00:48:49) - The mastermind was $68,000 for the year, and I'm like, that's like an astronomical amount. But, you know, I'm like, you know what? This is like YOLO. Let's go for it. I feel like and then like, what happens is when you when you invest to be and to learn from people and be in a group of other people who invested that much, all of a sudden everyone you talk to is like super high level. They're sharp. And then when they start referring you to their network, oh, hey, you should meet this person, or I use this person to help me with this. They saw a lot of my growth recently was being connected to people from that specific network that the mastermind because. So I think one thing that I've learned over the years is to always try to level up the group that, you know, like where hangouts in the beginning, you know, like I would hang out free Facebook groups to be like, try to Frankenstein little pieces and tips or watch YouTube videos.

Speaker 2 (00:49:37) - Right? They eventually like start getting to pay groups and that was a better quality content. So I think you get what you pay for in terms of like value from content, from education. And, and as I started paying for more and more expensive groups and masterminds and programs, I got better and better advice, right? Yeah. Um, and so, yeah, just recently I was working with a guy named Joel Irwin. He, um, he's famous for running, like, webinars, and he ran like, Alex or Moses, like he did Jim launch. Right. And that was his. Oh, really? Yeah, he did all of that. Right. And so. So I paid him $6,000 to help me write one webinar, but but I and normally I'd be like, that's ridiculous. I mean, I could just free content out there and how to do a webinar you can go on YouTube is endless videos on how to do a webinar and was like, you know what? But this guy did Alex or Moses and that guy's pretty successful, so why not? And then another friend of mine's name is Boyd, clueless from the mastermind.

Speaker 2 (00:50:34) - He goes, yeah, hired Joel, and he wrote me a webinar and I hired this agency who I also hired, and they they they ran traffic to it. And we did that in 2020. We made 30 million. So I'm like, okay, can you speak to both the guys, both those people, the agency and the webinar guy. And so he did I'm just so I'm just copying his playbook. So like even though it's funny, it's like a weird, like chain of command or like weird spectrum where like, the people in my program that are copying my playbook from running a recruiting business, but I'm in the mastermind, copying other people's playbook for high level market that I have no idea how to do. And so I'm like, okay, I'm gonna copy this guy that made 30 million because he hired Joel and he hired his agency to run marketing. So yeah, that's all I'm doing. So I never really claimed to be like the most innovative. So I just like to copy people who have already cracked the code.

Speaker 2 (00:51:25) - And then. So that's that's my strategy for this year. Just copy people who are so much faster than me.

Speaker 1 (00:51:31) - That's mean. That's such great advice. And it's also so important to have that kind of abundance mindset. Right. Look, it can seem daunting. I mean, yeah, when you see the price tag of some of these courses. But I mean, you're absolutely right. And I feel like you got to you got to think, you know, these if you know about some of the people that are associated with these, they don't want to see people fail. Whenever they join something like this. They're going to do whatever they can to make sure that you're getting to that next level. Right. And you get that kind of, you know, return from the experience.

Speaker 2 (00:52:08) - Well, it's funny enough, like, I in the last I think a year ago ish or something, I thought to myself, you know what? Like a lot of people were kind of coming in like really in their own way.

Speaker 2 (00:52:18) - Like their fear was the obstacle they couldn't get around about. Like just giving a shot for themselves. Like they've been thinking about starting a business. They want to do recruiting because they either have recruiting experience or they understand that recruiting is just a you're just basically playing career matchmaker, matching people with jobs. Right. And so they and they like it and or they don't want they want to get to business as time tested. That's not like a random fly by night. Like it'll be around forever. Like they want something that's really stable, but they just. Won't pull the trigger. No matter what. They just like something's holding them back. So I'm like, you know what? I'm just going to do something crazy. Like, I'm just an offer, a moneyback guarantee to everybody. Same thing. Like, I'm like, you know, it works for that one guy. And. Yeah, so then said, look, all right, if you follow the process, follow the playbook, and you don't make at least one deal, typically each deal it's worth 20, right? If you don't make a deal, you don't make an ROI.

Speaker 2 (00:53:09) - We'll give you your money back. Like I'll just do that just because think, think I got just got sick of people like who? Like who basically we're getting in their own way and like, couldn't help them around that. Despite my best, despite all the case studies, I'm like, all right, like, they're still afraid. And it's natural. It's normal to be afraid. So I'm like, okay, would it help if I just gave you your money back if you didn't work like, sure. And so and then of course they got results then like it was great. And so, so that's one thing that we just threw out there and nobody else does that. But I don't know I just figured why not? Like people should stand behind their stuff. And if people, you know, invest in us and fall exactly what said and they don't get results and that's my fault, right? Like think that it kind of comes back to that. That's that's on me. And they shouldn't have to pay if they did everything I asked them, they didn't get the result right.

Speaker 2 (00:53:58) - So that's but but we don't say that in our ads because then apparently that tracks like the people who are already like thinking of that. Right. Like, you know, you don't want people going into something like with one foot out the door, one for them, one for the out. But, you know, we we talk about it as well.

Speaker 1 (00:54:13) - So that's something too. Absolutely. Yeah. You're right. Mean you don't want to attract people that would potentially be like well I'm just going to. Pop my head in for a little while and see what I can see, what I can do, and then get my money back and be on my way, you know? But but I mean, that's the thing you got to. You got to put some skin in the game so that people are like, all right, look, that's respectable. They're accountable to to my success. And, you know, the funny thing is, I feel like it would probably have the opposite effect of, you know, actually a higher retention and, and really fast tracking trust with the client, you know, by, by being like, look, we're we're in this together.

Speaker 1 (00:54:54) - Like you're not getting there then I'm not getting there, you know.

Speaker 2 (00:54:57) - Exactly. And the thing is, like with and also that's how the industry works in recruiting where, you know, that's why recruiters, when we tell our clients or prospective clients, if, if there's no fee upfront, there's no obligation to work with me, right? There's no obligation to even interview. You can even interview my candidates and there's no obligation. Only if you come, I send you a candidate you absolutely love that significantly stronger than anyone else that you're interviewing and you end up hiring them. Would there be a one time performance recruiting fee? Right. And that's it. And we guarantee the candidate, you know, for 90 days to if anything, what happens. Like we take care of that. So yeah that's why I offer the money back guarantee because as a recruiter I always offered a 90 day guarantee. Like if anything happens, if the candidate quits, you fire them within 90 days. I'll give you your the money back.

Speaker 2 (00:55:45) - And so we always back up our candidates. I'm like, why don't I back up my program the same way back at my candidates? But I think people are afraid to do that or I don't know, I just and it hasn't been an issue. We have very few because people who because we give a condition, you have to follow the process. So either people follow and get results or they don't follow it or they don't qualify. So we really put on them and we support them and encourage them. But it's all and they have to take accountability for doing their part too, right?

Speaker 1 (00:56:12) - Yeah, absolutely. Um, so John, I know that you've got 4.0 launching soon. What else is is on the horizon for you? And where should people kind of check you out and, and stay in the loop on, on what you're doing in your mission right now?

Speaker 2 (00:56:29) - Yeah, I think right now we really are pivoting from initially we're just helping recruiters because I'm a recruiter and I feel like that's only people could talk to you.

Speaker 2 (00:56:38) - And I actually thought I was biased. I thought that most of the people we work with were recruiters until the marketing agency that hire was like, well, let's just see what the data says. And sure enough, we found that most of the people we work with are not recruiters. So now we're kind of pivoting from like how the search and recruiting business to like, hey, how did you become a freelance recruiter? Right? Even if you have no experience in recruiting or degree or anything like that, and how you can do this part time on the side, and you can make these $20,000 recruiting fees typically within 90 days or less, right. Like that's the promise. And so yeah, and so for people who are maybe curious about that, we have tons of free training on our website, Recruiting Accelerator. So it's a recruiting accelerator where you can find me on LinkedIn. I'm not a hard person to find and be happy to answer questions.

Speaker 1 (00:57:23) - Amazing. Well John, thank you again for joining the show.

Speaker 1 (00:57:26) - It's been an absolute pleasure getting to know you a little bit better. And all of these insights are incredible. I know everybody's taking notes as they've been listening to this, so no.

Speaker 2 (00:57:36) - Thanks for having me. This has been really fun.

Speaker 1 (00:57:38) - Absolutely. All right everybody everybody keep up with John will include the information in the bio. Until next time. This has been the G.E.M. Series. Have a wonderful day. Thank you for listening to today's episode of the G.E.M. Series, where we're always here to share the goals, execution, and mindset of thought leaders around the world. If you're listening to this, I'm sure that you have some pretty big goals for yourself and I would absolutely love to hear them. Actually, here at RocketLevel, we just launched our newest partnership program where the goal is to, well, build a relationship with you guys. I want to talk with all of you coaches, consultants and entrepreneurs. This program is going to be providing free sales and marketing training, giving you access to a massive network of small businesses and even paying you to allow us to handle the fulfillment side of things.

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