The G.E.M. Series Podcast EP 32: From Rock Bottom to Next Level Success: Insights from Kevin Palmieri of Next Level University

Blake (00:00:00) - Hey everybody, and welcome to another episode of the G.E.M series. I am pleased to introduce my guest today. Kevin. Kevin. Hey, how are you doing?


Kevin (00:00:09) - I am doing very well, Blake. Thank you so much for having me. I am excited to chat and see where we go today.


Blake (00:00:14) - I am too. I am too. I, I gotta tell you, you, uh, you know, in preparation for the show, you got me, uh, you got me doing some soul searching. You got me pumped up. Um, for those who don't know you, would you mind just telling the audience just a little bit about yourself?


Kevin (00:00:28) - Yeah. So today I am the C f o founder and host of Next Level University. We're a global Top 100 podcast with 1300 in 50-something episodes and listeners in 150-plus countries. And that's my full-time job. I get to podcast seven times a week and I do a lot of coaching underneath that for business owners and podcasters. But yeah, that is, at the end of the day, I'm a man who wants to help people level up their life, their love, their health, and their wealth. And that's, that's what I'm passionate about.


Blake (00:00:57) - That's incredible. And, uh, I think you should start slowing down when you say seven days a week, cuz that is, uh, that


Kevin (00:01:02) - Is


Blake (00:01:02) - A feat, man. I would be like seven days a week. Cause uh, you know, whenever I looked through I was like, I don't know. It's, it's pretty inspirational seeing you, uh, crank out so many episodes and like, didn't find a dud. You know, I, uh, I


Kevin (00:01:17) - Appreciate, I appreciate it. We put a lot of, we put a lot of work in. I also have another podcast about podcasts, so I technically do eight episodes a week, and then I go on seven other shows. So it's just that, but that's who I am. Right. If you, if you ask me on the streets, like, who are you and what do you do? I'm a podcaster. That is my identity. That's what I love doing. I'm blessed to be able to do this every day. So I appreciate the compliment very, very much.


Blake (00:01:39) - And, and, you know, I'd love, uh, I'd love to hear a little bit about like growing up if you don't just a snippet about that too. I mean, so I'm trying to, I was trying to decipher, so are you Massachusetts or New Hampshire or


Kevin (00:01:51) - New Hampshire.


Blake (00:01:52) - Okay. New Hampshire, right? Yep. Okay.


Kevin (00:01:54) - Got it. I was Massachusetts, so I was born and raised in Massachusetts. I was born, uh, into a household with my mom and my grandmother. I didn't know my dad. I didn't meet my dad until I was 27. And growing up, my childhood was fairly normal. All things considered. I played sports, I rode my bike outside with my friends. We played in the woods. Um, I wanted to play baseball professionally. That was something that I wanted to do eventually, and that evolved to, I wanted to fight professionally. I wanted to fight in mixed martial arts professionally. Nice. That was one of my goals. And then I ended up skipping out on college, and that's really where life started to take interesting turns because I was just experiencing life and trying to figure out how to make money and this whole job thing. And eventually, I got, a very lucrative job making six figures. Ended up sitting on the edge of a bed, contemplating suicide the year after I made the most money. And then I quit and went all in onto podcasting.


Blake (00:02:55) - Such an incredible journey. And like, man, I just wanna say, I'm really glad you're here, you know? Thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah. I, so that would put you, I guess you're probably what, in your like thirties ish, right?


Kevin (00:03:06) - 33 3.


Blake (00:03:07) - Cool. How would you characterize, that that decade of your twenties? Because there's something really interesting that happens, I think, in everybody's brain right around that time. Yeah.


Kevin (00:03:19) - I would say it was perceived rock bottom to perceived Top of the top, yeah. To real rock bottom. And then trying to figure out what the top of the top meant. That's probably, the best way to put it I had a lot of external success and I didn't have any internal success, then. I had a lot of internal success, but I didn't have any external success. Mm. And then it was the juggling act towards the end of my twenties. How do I get both of those? How do I become fulfilled and successful? How do I become, you know, happy and fulfilled? How do I become a better man Yeah. But also more successful than the external. Yeah.


Blake (00:04:01) - Yeah. And you know, I think that's the thing that you don't realize going into your twenties is that a lot of the hard work is, is the hardest work, is the internal work, you know? Mm-hmm. , and you can get an amazing job and, uh, you know, be just absolutely killing it financially and hit all your goals. But I mean, you're kind of born with the coping mechanisms that you're born with, and sometimes it's tricky to, figure out how do I, how do I Yeah. Tap into that fulfillment and, uh, actually get there. So I, no, I think that's a, I think that's a really good way to, good way to put it. Um, and for you, whenever you were on this journey, you know, I, I know you've had a lot of different, a lot of different jobs. One that stuck out in my mind was the truck driving because I'm sure you had a lot of time to like think and, uh,  and process on the road. Um, but I heard that that's where you kind of first had the epiphany to want to talk into a mic for a job. Um, yeah, I, I, I wanted to know, um, why do you think that idea, I, I just feel like sometimes those little moments are, are like luck, whether you capitalize on them or not. What, why do you think the idea kind of stuck with you long enough until you made it a reality?


Kevin (00:05:18) - I, I think it came from an initial place of, it sounds really easy, honestly. I think that's really where, where it came from like, if I could talk into a microphone for four hours a day, I don't know. I feel like my life would be pretty easy. That's where it started. But it's interesting, right? Even to your point, you connect the dots, right? You can connect the dots when you look back. And I used to listen to a morning show mm-hmm. , it was called the Hillman Morning Show. They're outta Boston. There was the, like, the biggest morning show around. And we ended up interviewing one of the people from that show because we listen to her every day. Alan, my co-host and I, we listen, listened to her every day. Then eventually we reached out to her on Instagram and we ended up at her house interviewing her early in the journey. That was like a really weird full-circle moment for me. So it really


Blake (00:06:07) - Is.


Kevin (00:06:07) - Yeah, it was, it was super strange. And then I started doing videos on Facebook before Facebook Live was a thing. So it was almost like I knew I wanted to impact people with my voice. I just didn't know what that meant. Mm-hmm. In what genre, in what specific way? I didn't know what the vehicle was. Yeah. So it's almost like when I found podcasting, I think I already knew what my passion was. I've always wanted to help people, right? Even when I was younger, I would do baseball camps for the young kids when I was playing, when was a captain of the baseball team. I love that. I enjoyed that, but I never knew what the vehicle for that was. I think that's why when I found podcasting, it was almost like all right, cool. This is the vehicle. I just gotta figure out how to keep this thing on the road.


Blake (00:06:50) - Yeah. Yeah. No, that, that makes a lot of sense. And it's, uh, it's cool whenever stuff does work out that way, I, I find, you know, I mean, there's, there are situations where I think that sometimes I know I've done it where I'm like, you know, I have been like so up close to the trees that I forget to take like three steps back and look at the big picture and be like, oh, wow. I guess what I like is maybe helping people or, um, having some sort of creative as, you know, creative aspect to whatever I'm doing and, and then diving full force into it. And I mean, I can't think of a better vessel for that than, uh, I mean, there's plenty of them, but, uh, but podcasting is powerful for that. Yeah. Do you know?


Kevin (00:07:33) - Yeah. Well, I get to learn for a living too. As you said in, the preamble, you said, I get to talk to cool people all the time. It's awesome for me, I have to learn every day. It's part of what, it's part of my job description. And I also get the unique benefits of when I learn more about money, I can teach more about money, but I can also become more effective with the money I have. It's, it's a win-win, win, win, win. And I'm very grateful I picked the self-improvement industry and not something else. Cuz I don't think I'd, I'd be as holistically successful if that wasn't the case.


Blake (00:08:04) - Well, that's the funny thing. It's like, it's self-improvement. You're literally. Right. Improving yourself, you know? Right.


Kevin (00:08:10) - My job


Blake (00:08:11) - And that, uh, that's magnetic and helps other people out too. It's, uh, it's super powerful. Um, this is kind of a side thing, but I was laughing today because, whenever I was checking out some of your stuff, I saw you bring up some video about salad and fingers, And,


Kevin (00:08:27) - Uh,


Blake (00:08:27) - Then that just, that brought me so much joy because that was like such a childhood thing for me. So I was like, okay, I think we, we grew up with some of the same, uh mm-hmm. , the same kind of, kind of, uh, weird internet stuff.


Kevin (00:08:40) - Very weird, very weird. I saw it today and I was like, you know what this is, I'm gonna share this on my story because I feel like most of the people who follow me are probably similarly aged and they probably know what salad fingers are. And maybe they haven't seen it in, in many, many years.


Blake (00:08:55) - Well, it worked, man. I, uh, I was cracking up. I was


Kevin (00:08:58) - Like, oh, appreciate it.


Blake (00:08:59) - I was like, oh my God, I have not seen that in so long. It made me, uh, it made me laugh pretty hard. I had to go find one of the videos again and check it out. Um,


Kevin (00:09:07) - Still weird. It's as weird as it's ever been. That is a fact.


Blake (00:09:12) - Yeah, I know. I'm like, I, I, I just remember telling my mom about trying to explain this, uh, this video to her and her being like, I don't even know the words that you're you're saying, you're talking about rusty spoons and doing this crazy thing over here. Um, but, uh, you know, that, uh, that that cracked me up.


Kevin (00:09:35) - I'm a regular dude. I think that I don't know, it's, it's a balance, right? I'm, I'm a regular guy who is trying to be extraordinary, but I also like normal stuff. Yeah. I never, I always struggle to resonate with people who, it was always like, I'm all about growth, growth over everything. That, never really worked for me because I knew that wasn't the way that I identified. Now I'm obsessed with growth and I grow every day and I work a lot, but, you know, Saturday night comes, you're gonna find my butt on the couch watching ufc probably eating Taco Bell, cuz that's kind of like my Saturday night ritual. So I try to, juggle both and it's always kind of a challenge.


Blake (00:10:14) - It's about the long game at the end of the day, you know, like, uh, that was something I was like I wanted to ask you about cuz Yeah. I've heard, I've heard you mention several different hobbies and it sounds like you still can like, strike a balance with even cranking out seven podcasts a week, you know mm-hmm. , how do you, how do you stay? Yeah. How do you stay so productive? Do you have any tips on that kind of stuff for being able to like, I don't know, live a, live a life that's, uh, enriched with stuff that you li uh, you know, uh, other, other things that you like too? Yeah,


Kevin (00:10:46) - I scheduling, I, I know a lot of the stuff I say is not super sexy. It's kind of boring. Yeah. But I, I have stuff scheduled out where, you know, Mondays are recording days. You cannot book me, I will not do a speech. There's pretty much no amount of money you can give me not to record on Mondays. So Mondays we do, we try to do all seven episodes. Usually, we don't because we do business meetings and stuff. Yeah. But if we can hammer out those seven episodes on Monday, the rest of my week is filled with coaching calls and other podcasts. So I can kind of look at my schedule and say, you know what? I have a three-hour block here. What do I want to fill it with? It also depends on the season. That's another thing too, right now, so I'm dieting, my wife and I are going to Belgium in September, so I'm dieting for the next three months. So the G.E.M is more of a priority now mm-hmm.  then it was in the last season. That's


Blake (00:11:40) - Good because I was thinking about that the other day. This, uh, I don't know, sometimes it sounds overly stoic to refer to something as like sacrifice. Right. But, uh, but you know, it, it, there is like a certain amount of sacrifice that I feel you have to make to be able to, you know, be able to obtain the kind of goals that you want to obtain. Mm-hmm. And, uh, I, I was curious cuz uh, yeah, I feel like if you can get to a place where you can sit and prioritize correctly, then you can knock stuff out. I don't know. What, do you do typically, to figure out how do, how to prioritize what you want to prioritize and make those adjustments? Usually?


Kevin (00:12:24) - Yeah. It, really depends on what are the, what are the main short-term goals. So if a business, building a business is a massive short-term goal, which it always is and it always will be, and a long-term goal. Mm-hmm. , I tend to do business first. I tend to fill my cup last.


Blake (00:12:43) - Got it.


Kevin (00:12:43) - And I know that's, that's not necessarily the goal, right? You gotta put the oxygen mask on yourself before you can put it on anybody else. Now I'm very blessed that this does fulfill me. Mm-hmm. So I do get to fill my cup with the stuff that I do. It depends on what the internal audit is. I told my business partner yesterday, and I said, Hey man, you move two calls to Saturday afternoon. Can I skip 'em? My wife's gonna be out of town. I just wanna sit on the couch and be with Kev. I haven't been with Kevin in a minute. Yeah.


Kevin (00:13:12) - And I have the best business partner in the world. He's like, dude. Like, you need to figure out who Kev is. I'm, he's the best. I'm, I'm very, I'm very grateful. Yeah. Yeah. So it's the internal audit of, you know when you do, we're doing audits at all times. It's like, how many clean socks do I have? Oh, I'm running low. I have to do something about that. Okay, cool. How, how is my relationship doing? When was the last time I checked in? When was the last time I checked my finances? I try to do that with myself and then I try to react accordingly. And then that almost becomes priority one. Mm-hmm. , depending on the season and what's going on.


Blake (00:13:45) - Yeah. You know, I heard something and uh, something my mentor told me a while ago was, yeah, just, uh, you know, if you wanna really simplify it, just, uh,  never make priorities plural, right? Yeah. Just, uh,


Kevin (00:13:58) - There is just a moment.


Blake (00:13:59) - Hone in, man. And I was like, you know what? That's, uh, you know, obviously we all have to find balance in our lives and everything, but if you want something to happen there, that's, uh, you know, I found that that's, uh, that's a mental exercise that is so, you know, helpful to be able to get a little bit closer to what you want. And things hit simply really fast. All of a sudden you're like, oh, well why am I stressing myself out about all these little things that aren't really mm-hmm? , uh, aiding my mission right now anyways, you know, or taking care of me. And I love the idea of spending time with yourself because, um, not enough people do take enough time to get into their head. And, um, yeah, you can go, I don't know. I know in my younger years I would go months and then be like, what have I been doing for six months? Or something like that. I don't know. And


Kevin (00:14:46) - Definitely. It's, well, it's, time goes. Yeah. Time goes by so fast. It's, I'm on camera pretty much all day. So that's very draining. I'm not an extrovert. I am an introvert to the core. So for me, this is, it's fulfilling in the way of adding value, but it's also draining my battery just in terms of what I need to recluse at the end of the day. Yeah. I just, love people, but sometimes I don't wanna be around anybody that's just, it's that balance.


Blake (00:15:14) - I hear you. 100%. Um, you know, and something that I always like to touch on a little bit is cuz just hearing your story, I feel so often that our lives are just measured by how we navigate our difficulties. So I was kind of curious, what's your relationship been with, uh, failure over the years?


Kevin (00:15:32) - Mm. Early on my relationship with failure was quite toxic. I remember when I was, I think I was 12 or 13 and I was playing on an all-star team and we were down by, I think we were down by one run base is loaded and I am the guy you want at the plate. And I remember thinking to myself, Blake, this is terrible and I'm gonna strike out. And I struck out on three straight pitches. It was brutal. I was crying. Uh, my mom was consoling me. And, it was very hard for me ever to be put in that position again where I felt like I'd be able to win the game. Yeah. Because that failure, really, really messed with me. Now, two things I've practiced over the last however many years. One, separating a failure from your self-worth and your identity.


Kevin (00:16:22) - Just because you make a mistake does not mean you are a failure Part one. Yeah. And then number two, and this is very, very helpful for me. It's not a failure if you get to do it again. So if somebody comes to me and says, Hey, I have this test coming up and I'm really afraid and I just, I'm so afraid I'm gonna fail, the first question I ask is, can you take it again? And they say, what, what? Can you take it again? Yeah. It's 50 bucks. I'll give you the 50 bucks. Go take the test. Because you can't fail. It's not real. You're not gonna fail and not be able to take it again. So, my relationship with failure now is very constructive, but it did not start that way. And there were many, many failures along the way where I had to go back to the drawing board, figure out what it meant, and then figure out how to get up and continue doing what I was doing. So it's the most positive it's ever been. But that is just because at this point I've just had thousands of failures. Small, small, small, a little bit bigger, a little bit bigger, a little bit bigger. And, you know, six years of failures, I'll, I'll do something to you.


Blake (00:17:23) - Yeah. And now it's like, hey, I kinda look forward to my next failure. Means I That's fair. Something out. Right. Yeah. Um, but I think that is something that everybody, I who's listening right now, I hope you're, uh, taking notes because a lot of times Yeah. With failure, it's so tied to your self-worth, and, um, it's, it's, yeah. It's not easy. It's not easy. It takes a long time to be able to do that separation. Of course. I mean, how did you Yeah. Start doing that internal work and figuring that stuff out?


Kevin (00:17:53) - When I started a podcast, it was called hyper-Conscious. Mm-hmm.  acutely Aware. So I have been fairly obsessed with self-awareness since I started this. I, I don't know, I just remember understanding that I am not necessarily the behavior and I am not necessarily the result here is, okay, this is how when I win at a very high level, I also don't let it, I try not to let it move me too much.


Blake (00:18:23) - Yeah.


Kevin (00:18:23) - Because if I, if I'm super responsive to my wins, I'm also potentially gonna be super responsive to my losses. Mm-hmm. And here's the thing, if something happens today and we have a really big win, it's not because of anything I did today. Most likely it's because of what I've done for the last six years. If I have a really big loss today, it's not gonna matter that much if I learn the lesson. And, I impart that wisdom in my life for the next six years. So it's, it's just been that, it's been the learning and growing experience of the wins don't move the needle that much. The losses shouldn't move the needle that much either. It's lessons that you're gonna get from both of them.


Blake (00:19:01) - Yeah. No, I think that's, uh, that's such a good way to put it. I, uh, cuz I mean, it is funny whenever you stop and look at it cuz you know, people get so wrapped up in this idea of like, I didn't hit my goal and, uh, you know, now I just don't know where to go from here. Um, and it is that simple. It's like, look like this is all, this is all kind of part of just existing in general. Um, and you know, like, just like you said, like this isn't indicative of, um, your life's work or anything like that. It's one tiny blip on the map, you know? Um, I wanna talk a little more about, uh, a little more about like, self-worth and, and how do you think that that's been just people's sense of self-worth may be impacting their ability to, uh, I don't know, succeed or find that fulfillment? I mean, have you, it seems like just such a tough one nowadays. Like so many people are struggling with it.


Kevin (00:19:59) - Yeah. I believe now more than ever that the two reasons people aren't successful, whatever success means to you is because they have inaccurate self-worth or inaccurate self-belief. Mm-hmm. And when I say inaccurate, excuse me, I don't necessarily mean low. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not saying you're not confident or don't have self-worth. I think you can have too much confidence and you can have a delusional level of self-worth too. So here's my thought. I was talking to somebody recently and he said, I don't know, man, I just don't think I believe in myself enough. And I said, all right, cool. Let's do an exercise. I said, on a scale of one to 10, how much do you believe you are capable of brick by brick building this castle? It's a beautiful castle in the ocean. It's wonderful. You have all this land. The inside has all these fine things.


Kevin (00:20:45) - On a scale of one to 10, how much do you believe? And he said, 11. And I know I can build it. I said, awesome. Cool. On a scale of one to 10, how much do you feel you deserve to live there after you build it? And he looked at me and he went, oh, maybe like a two. And I said, it's not a self-belief issue, brother. It's a self-worth issue that, so if you have low self-belief, let's just say inaccurate to your capabilities, you're not gonna take action. When you don't take action, you're not gonna get proof and you're not gonna continue taking action. If you have super high self-belief, you might not even think you have to take action. You might just say, I mean, I can do anything I want, but I'm not going to. Okay. If you have inaccurate self-worth, so let's just say you have low self-worth lower than you should.


Kevin (00:21:34) - You might not feel like you deserve the results. You might not feel like you belong. Uh, as the type of person who is quote-unquote successful, you might have a fear of success. If you have super high self-worth, you might feel like you deserve it already and you might not be willing to put in the effort. So, that's what I have seen over the last six years, and the thousands of people we've talked to is more than anything, if you don't believe it, it's not gonna happen. And if you feel like you deserve it by default, you're probably not gonna be willing to crawl through the mud to get there.


Blake (00:22:06) - Yeah. And, you know, that's, uh, that's extra, that's a that's such a good way to put it. I mean, uh, I know I'm just saying that, but I'm just like, I, I love that because I, I feel like so many people, um, maybe also whenever, even me, whenever I think of self-worth, I always think of the low end of the spectrum. Mm-hmm. And you don't also think of like, Hey, let's go for, let's go for accuracy here, let's go for reality here. Right? Yeah. Um, because that's what's impactful and that's what tells you what you need or what you should, you know, what truths you've, you've created for yourself that you should, you know, start shedding. Yeah.


Kevin (00:22:43) - Um, the, majority of our audience has low self-worth and they have low self-belief. And I'm a, I'm drawn to somebody like that because I can help them construct it. When somebody is super high, like delusively, high self-worth, or delusively high self-belief, it's very hard for me to help them. Cuz you kind of have to knock them down a peg. Mm-hmm. , it's, it's, I'm not, I'm just not good at that. That's not the way I'm wired. And we could even have a conversation. It's a deeper conversation. But is delusional self-worth or self-belief ever a good thing? Maybe, you'll go out there and try something you never would've tried before. I don't know. As long as you're taking action, you're most likely gonna make it further in life than if you didn't. So if the delusion allows you to take action, I'm all for it. Because you're gonna get some sort of results you wouldn't have if you just stayed in the dark.


Blake (00:23:33) - Absolutely. And you know, it kind of reminded me, um, cuz something that stood out whenever I was, I was checking out some of your stuff, was one thing I was like, man, that I gotta commend your courage was, it was one episode where you were talking, it was, uh, it was about growing pains and getting some feedback. And, uh, you had reached out, you and your co-host had both reached out to some people where you were like, maybe there was some sort of a connection there in the pa This was a long time ago. You're married now. Um, but you had reached out and then they gave you feedback on maybe why they weren't wanting to, you know, chat a little bit further or take the, take the relationship further. I guess what I was curious about is like, what pushes you there? You know, because like that's, that's taken, that's going for like straight up like honesty and feedback and like being, not being afraid to be a little raw and like learn and grow.


Kevin (00:24:26) - I wanna know. Yeah. I wanna know more. I, I wanna know more about myself. And if I feel like, the level of confidence you have in yourself and the, again, accuracy of your self-worth and your, level of self-awareness you have dictates the level of feedback you can get. Yeah. Right after when I was, I was growing and I was going through it and I was having growing pains and I remember one day I messaged somebody I went to high school with and I was like, Hey, I hope you're well. I just wanna reach out and say, I'm sorry if I was like crappy to you. Cause I know I was going through my stuff and I probably wasn't always the best, you know, the best person. Yeah. And we had a, we had a really good conversation, but I was terrified that he was gonna say something that was gonna destroy me. But I just, yeah. Sometimes you gotta, you gotta listen to the call. Sometimes you get the call that says, Hey, intuitively, I don't know how to explain this, but this is something I feel like I need to do at the moment. Sometimes I just sit with that and say, you know what? I ultimately believe this will be what's best for me. Let me, let me sift through this pain and do it.


Blake (00:25:28) - Yeah. Yeah. I mean, biting the bullet. I, I, you know, I haven't seen, even if somebody does have something like particularly vinegar to say back to you, you know, I, I feel like you might as well just like eat the shit and move forward, you know,  like  Cause uh, cause you'll grow, you'll grow from it. Like for sure. You'll,


Kevin (00:25:50) - You know. Yeah. For sure. But, I think the level of feedback you seek should be accurate to the level of feedback you can handle. Mm. I'll just put that out there because whatever level of shit it is in the beginning, it's gonna hopefully be less. Right. It's just a, it's a weight. If it's your first day in your, in the G.E.M, don't, don't try to squat a world record. Right. And I, I look at life as that because if the pressure you are seeking is appropriate for the level that you can handle, you're probably gonna be in a pretty good position.


Blake (00:26:21) - Yeah. No, absolutely. So I wanna hear a little bit more about the beginning of, uh, starting the podcast. I mean, I, I know that you, you met your co-host, I think you, you guys, uh, you know, he had asked you to do a video or something like that with him at, at one point, and it was kind of like kismet from there. What was, yeah. What were you feeling in the, in that time and like, uh, you know, were, were there people that were supporting you? Were people kind of like, Hey, what's going on, Kevin? Yeah. What was that time of life like for you?


Kevin (00:26:53) - I remember, I remember when I went to see my mom and my grandmother and I said, Hey, I quit my job. And they were like, what? And I said, yeah, I quit my job and I'm never, I will never punch a time clock for somebody else. As long as I live, I can't do it. Uh, you know, I've quit every job I've ever had. Like, there's, there's a reason for this, I can't do it. Yeah. They were very supportive, although they were very, very afraid. So in the beginning I was blessed because I had a lot of support. I have a very small circle. But when, when I was getting ready to leave my job, I moved in with one of my best friends who's also an entrepreneur. We lived together. We would, at night, we would watch these mansion tours and these car reviews to like continue the ambition and we'd have all these conversations about entrepreneurship and the future.


Kevin (00:27:39) - So in the very beginning, Blake, it was how do I start to learn about business and how do I start to learn about all this stuff? And then how do I make money as a podcaster? I didn't have any blueprint. I didn't know anybody who was podcasting. So Alan and I had to figure out how do we turn this into a business. And it was a lot of late nights. It was a lot of early mornings. It was a lot of sacrifice, you know, not going on vacation, any of that stuff. Yeah. Being very broke, living on credit cards. The very beginning was traumatic, to say the least. It was just,


Blake (00:28:14) - I can, yeah.


Kevin (00:28:15) - It was brutal. It was brutal for sure.


Blake (00:28:19) - And what, what was that? Yeah, I guess, uh, you know, whenever you were, I mean, was there ever a time where you were like, man, I  might give up on this? Or were there, like, were there doubts going through your head and how did you navigate through that stuff?


Kevin (00:28:33) - There were doubts. I'm blessed that I had a business partner because he would never, if, if you think I believe in myself, Alan believes in himself a million times more than I do for Alan is the type of person that nothing is impossible with enough time, anything can happen. And he's a genius. So he has like the perfect combination for someone like me who is an operator, just tell me what to do and I'll do it. So I never wanted to quit. I just didn't know how to survive. Yeah. That was my, my thought was, I need to make enough money to get to the end of the week, to get to the end of the month, to get to the next set of weeks and months. That was it in the beginning for me. I never wanted to quit, but I just didn't necessarily know how to continue. Alan was instrumental in that. And, you know, it also has facilitated all the stuff that I've learned. Right. The necessity and the pressure that I was under helped me figure out what are the most important things to learn. And I still use a lot of those things today. So in retrospect, sometimes the adversity is the advantage.


Blake (00:29:38) - And I'll bet anything that, uh, that Alan would echo those sentiments right back about you too. You know, I mean,  sounds like you, it's, it's really special whenever you find somebody that you, you sync up with really well and can get stuff knocked out. Cuz I mean, it's, uh, it's pretty, it's a personal relationship, you know, it's, uh, it's a one-of-a-kind thing to find somebody like that. So shout out to Alan, man. That's great. Shout


Kevin (00:30:02) - Out Alan. Why? I'll tell him. I'll give him, I'll give him the love when I see him. I, I'm just gonna see him after this. We have a meeting, believe it or not, Awesome.


Blake (00:30:08) - Awesome. Um, and I guess I wanna know on the flip side, when did you start seeing the traction? I mean, uh, I, did you have any kinda little moment where you were like, oh, I think I'm kind of, I think we were getting somewhere here, you know, I'm my grocery bill, but I can, I can buy my groceries comfortably. And, uh, yeah.


Kevin (00:30:26) - Yeah. There was a, a couple, the first one was, um, when I told Alan I needed to make money, he said, you should start coaching for free. And I was like, brother, I need to make money. And he is like, no, no, no, you've never coached before. You need to build the confidence coach for free. So I ended up finding five people who I knew and listened to the podcast. I messaged them all and said, Hey, I'm gonna do some beta coaching. I don't know if I'm any good. I don't know what's gonna happen. It's free. Are you in? And everybody said yes. And I was like, all right, cool. That's zero to one, kind of zero to a half. And after a couple months I said, Hey, I can't do this for free anymore. We're doing more episodes, you know, there's more going on.


Kevin (00:31:01) - What do you think of 50 bucks a week? And everybody said yes. And I was like, whoa. Interesting. Okay. Right. So, now I'm making $50 an hour for my coaching. That's awesome. That was a big one. The other big one was, I had somebody reach out to me and they said, Hey, you know more about podcasting than anybody I know. I know someone who wants to start a show. Hmm. And I was like, okay, what, what do you mean? And they said you should help them start and produce and do all that. And I was like, oh, interesting. Is that a thing? And they said, yeah, you should try it. So I ended up meeting this guy a couple of times. He's the CEO of a financial firm. And the last time I met him, we went up to his office and he's like, how much is it?


Kevin (00:31:42) - Like, what am I, what I'm looking for? How much is it? And I was like, you know, it's, you know, $1,500 a month or whatever it's, yeah. And he's like, all right man, let's do it. Venmo cash credit. What, what do you want? Does credit card check? And I was like, whatever, dude. Whatever's gonna get me the money into the bank account, I don't care. And I remember we were going, I was going down in the elevator after shaking his hand. Cool. And I texted my girlfriend, it's just my wife now. And I said, Hey, baby, we did it. And that for me was like, man, I, I never expected any of that to happen. That was, that was a big moment for me. My belief and the proof of concept of this whole thing.


Blake (00:32:21) - Absolutely. I mean, there's nothing more special than that moment where you're like, I've been envisioning all of these ideas, and then finally, finally something sticks and you're like, oh, I can, like, I can reasonably scale this idea. Yes. And, you know, it's only gonna grow from here. So I, uh, you know, I always love, love hearing those stories. And for you, you know, I was curious about your ideas around the kind of creating a movement, because something that I noticed was, uh, you had an episode like way early on with a guy named Dan from your, I think he was from your high school and


Kevin (00:32:57) - Yeah. Yeah.


Blake (00:32:58) - And I, I don't know, I just thought that was so cool because I feel like a lot of times people neglect to whenever they're getting the ball rolling on something they don't like, tap into their immediate environment and their network and start growing it. And, uh, yeah. I just wanted to hear your thoughts around, like Yeah. How do you, how do you think is, how do you think you've been able to create this movement?


Kevin (00:33:19) - Yeah. D Dan, shout out to Dan. I went to high school with, uh, no, I went to middle school with Dan. I don't, we didn't even go to high school together. No way.


Blake (00:33:26) - Okay,


Kevin (00:33:26) - Cool. Yeah, he looked like he was doing cool stuff and I was like, Hey man, I have a podcast. I like to talk about deep stuff. Do you wanna come on? And he's like, yeah, man. And I was like, all right, here's my address. Come through and you know, you and I'll hang on and do it. Uh, I believe, the thing that has really helped us and set us apart in a way, is to your point, we know our audience at a very, very, very deep level. Because to me, the most important and most valuable use of my time is getting to know the audience. Mm-hmm. , a lot of people get to the point where they say, oh, I'm too busy to do that. It's not worth my time. It's not the best use of my time. Yeah. When in reality, your audience is the only reason you get to do what you do every day.


Kevin (00:34:07) - They're the people who are, who are helping you. So yeah. I know our audience at a very deep level. I know how their relationships are. I know where they live. I know if they lack belief or self-worth it's just, at the end of the day, they are the reason we get to do what we do. So knowing them, knowing their issues, knowing their problems, knowing their struggles, that's a huge part of it. And then honestly, the other thing is, there's two of us, right? Yeah. So Alan is probably on a coaching call right now while I'm, I'm jamming with you, adding value, that's a very, very hard thing to replicate if you're just doing it by yourself. So part of it is the fact that there are two of us and we can multiply our time.


Blake (00:34:51) - That's, uh, yeah, that's, that's a great point. You know, um, being able to multiply your time like that. Yes. I'm sure you've been able to see, uh, you're like, Hey, we're going, we're going pretty far together, you know, and, uh, yeah. You, you both learn all kinds of stuff and get to share it and, uh, do all of that. I'm, I'm, I'm pretty sure that kind of makes me think of like the compounding effect a little bit too, you know? Um. Yep. I've heard you talk about that too. Again, I told you I've listened to a handful of episodes,


Kevin (00:35:18) -, I appreciate it.


Blake (00:35:19) - But, um, what would you Yeah. Have you, has that philosophy impacted your life in any way you think?


Kevin (00:35:25) - Yeah, Alan asked me on a recent episode, what's the biggest, what's the biggest thing that has helped you over the last six years? And I said, 1% improvements every day. That's it. Yeah. There's a book called, uh, atomic Habits by James Clear. He talks a lot about that, and the compound effects by Darren Hardy are, another good book on that. But w we tend to, do two things. We tend to underestimate where we can go in 10 years, and I think we overcomplicate the amount of growth we think we should have daily. So, one of my favorite quotes in the world, Blake, from day to day progress is invisible from year to year. It's impossible to miss. I did a bunch of episodes yesterday. I am not any measurably better today. I can't recognize any difference, but I am sure when you listen to episode number six with Dan Garino, it's a lot different now than it was back then. That's just, the power of a little improvement. A little improvement, you know? Oh, when I move the microphone over here, it sounds different. Oh, when I, yeah. Have a light over here. It sounds different. It doesn't have to be world-changing progress every day. It's not about what you do necessarily day to day. It's about how long you can do what you're doing day to day. Mm. How long can you do it for? That's, that's the key.


Blake (00:36:43) - 100%. Do you know? And, uh, for what it's worth, I choose the penny every time. Mm-hmm. , you know, I, uh, Yep,


Kevin (00:36:50) - Yep.


Blake (00:36:50) - I've like, you know, cuz once I learned about that, that concept, um, you know, it just fits into so many aspects of, of life. Um, you know, even whenever it comes down to people trying to establish their own or, you know, establish a better sense of self-worth or improve that for themselves. I'm like, look, you're not gonna wake up one day if you're, if you don't like the face in the mirror, you're not gonna wake up one day and just be like, oh, I guess I just do like the face in the mirror today. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know, it's, uh, it is about, it is about that compounding effect of being like, how can I just slowly work my way towards, uh, you know, either loving myself, loving my job, uh, having a, being a better partner to my, uh, you know, to my spouse or whoever. Um, and uh, yeah, it's, uh, it's, it's incredibly powerful. So I'm, I'm always happy whenever I hear that people are like sharing that and trying to, you know, embrace that idea a little bit. So


Kevin (00:37:46) - I got most of that from Alan, so I can't take, he, he taught me a lot of that, so I can't take full credit for him. Really.


Blake (00:37:51) - Yeah.


Kevin (00:37:51) - . Yep.


Blake (00:37:52) - I was gonna ask Yeah, you, you seem to, uh, I mean, are, so, are you like just devouring audiobooks all the time? Or where do you get all, all this knowledge from outside of like, uh, you know, obviously I know you and Alan are probably, uh, a wealth of knowledge, but, uh, yeah. How do you, how do you find this stuff typically?


Kevin (00:38:10) - Honestly, a lot of it is Alan. I mean, most, most of the fundamentals I have learned are based on what he's told me to learn. Most of the audiobooks I've listened to are based on what he's told me, to listen to. So I've had a mentor as a business partner for the last six years. So I'm very, very, very blessed. Yeah. Yeah. I'm very blessed. But yeah, I mean, I have, I have an audiobook on at all times. I learn from a minimum of 30 minutes a day, whether it's YouTube, ted talk, audiobook, you know, training, whatever it is. Yeah. So I just usually try to focus on where I'm the weakest. So in the beginning it was sales, it was like, okay, I need to learn sales. And then I learned, cuz here's the interesting thing. You learn what you like and what you wanna become, and you learn what you don't like and what you don't wanna become.


Kevin (00:38:53) - All right. Cool. You know, then it was numbered for a while. I was taking online free courses from MIT's YouTube channel. So let me check out what they have, for math courses. Let me see what that is. So usually I try to locate the weakness and then I try to mitigate the weakness through knowledge. And that's served me pretty well. And now I know a lot of stuff that I never expected to know, and I'm pretty proficient in a lot of things I never expected to be. So yeah. Identify the weakness and then figure out what water we can pour on The weakness to grow a little bit.


Blake (00:39:26) - Yeah. Goes back to what we're talking about. It adds up, man. It adds


Kevin (00:39:30) - Up. Yeah. A page a day, a pa 10 pages a day, you know, that it's, that adds up. That's, that's a good amount of books. 30 minutes a day doesn't seem like that much.


Blake (00:39:40) - Yeah.


Kevin (00:39:41) - It doesn't, it doesn't seem like that much, but it adds up.


Blake (00:39:44) - Yeah. So with what you, you know, you're, you're over a thousand episodes in the podcast. Co-coaching is like thriving right now, and you've got all kinds of other millions of projects that you're working on right now. What's kind of your, yeah, what's your goal or what's your next thing that you're excited about right now?


Kevin (00:40:05) - Oh man. Uh, we have, so Father's Day, we have our charity event. So Alan and I were both raised, uh, without fathers, Alan's father passed away in a car accident when he was two. I didn't know my dad. So every year we have a Father's Day event for children of single parents, and then we also have a holiday event. So Father's Day is coming up. So I'm very excited about that. That's great. And honestly, the main focus is how, if we can double revenue and we can double listens every year, we are growing the business, which means we're able to impact more people. That is the main focus is just continuing to compound the growth so we can have the level of impact that we're trying to have when people say what is, you know, the next year, the next five years, hopefully, an exponential version of what we're doing today. I don't expect the day-to-day to look much different at all. Yeah. I don't know if it ever will. I think it's gonna look kind of this way, uh, you know, maybe from, with different views, but it's probably gonna be pretty much this for the next 40 years. I the background, though, I appreciate it. I appreciate it, I spent a lot of time here, so it's gotta look good.


Blake (00:41:11) - Yeah. Well, I, I think that's, uh, I think that's amazing that you guys are, uh, you know, constantly being able to push forward. And it's kind of funny, uh, there's this, there's this essay that I always think of with, um, making improvements and being able to drive yourself forward. It's, uh, it's called the Excellence of Modernity. Mm-hmm. And, uh, basically what it means is not that you have to live this mundane life, but that like, to be able to achieve excellence, a lot of times what it takes is creating your environment and repeating, repeating, repeating. And, and the example they give is like a swimmer, you know, uh, it's, it's less about somebody that just goes in and tries to go crazy every single day and more about somebody that slows down and is methodical and, uh, you know, thinks about the strokes that they're doing and repeats and, uh, gets to where they're able to see those gradual improvements every day. So, no, it's cool. I don't know, it just made me think of that because I was like, oh, that's cool that you're like, look man, I'm already, I'm kind of living, I'm, I'm, I think we're in the zone where we're gonna, where, where we wanna be, but we have obvious goals and we wanna keep improving it. But, uh, what we've got going on is a pretty, pretty great system. You know, we just gotta keep believing in it and fueling it.


Kevin (00:42:26) - We're blessed with clarity. Clarity is something that it's, it's a superpower if you have it. And am I a hundred percent clear? No, I'm just much more clear than I was six years ago that something might happen tomorrow that might, oh, it's like, oh, that's a new opportunity, or that's a new thing I don't want to do. But we're, we're very blessed in that. And the interesting thing too, we call it grateful ambition. I'm very grateful, I'm very grateful for everything we have, but I have to remain ambitious because if I stop the ambition, I lose all of the future stuff that we're gonna do. If, if I lose the gratitude, I lose the presence of time that I have right now and the appreciation I have for what I have. If you can juggle those two, I think it's a good recipe for, again, you gotta figure out what your version of success is, but it's a good recipe at least to start.


Blake (00:43:17) - Yeah. All right. So I wanted to know, what is the one thing that, uh, you know, it doesn't have to be one thing, but I guess if you were to get throughout one thing that comes top of mind right now that you would want to, uh, have your listeners get out of your podcast right now, if you could think of, think of anything.


Kevin (00:43:37) - I mean, success makes things harder, not easier.


Blake (00:43:41) - Hmm.


Kevin (00:43:41) - I think a lot of us assume when we get to our version of success, life gets easier. , there's a lot of pressure that comes with opportunity and, uh, yeah. That, that I just don't want people to get to a point where they say, oh, I'm gonna get to a point where everything is great and I don't have any stress and everything is just blissful. I don't believe that exists and I could be wrong. Right. Maybe I'm just wired a different way. I don't know. But that, yeah, that,


Blake (00:44:09) - Yeah. It is funny. I'm like, sometimes I feel like, uh, people have this idea in their brain that we will, you know, climb these stairs and we're climbing stairs every day, and then one day that stair is just gonna be a beach. Mm. Like a chair sitting there and then, you know, we're there, we finally made it. Yeah. But, the reality is that guess what, once you climb a stair, there's just another stair. Of


Kevin (00:44:30) - Course


Blake (00:44:30) - That's, of course. That's coming next. Yeah.


Kevin (00:44:33) - You know, and I don't, I don't know if you optimize for fulfillment, happiness, sure. If you wanna sit on a beach and drink margaritas all day, I'm sure that will bring you momentary happiness. But eventually, you're gonna wake up one day and say, I wanna do this. Like, there's gotta be more than this. Yeah. There, there's gotta be something that fulfills me. I want to grow and I want to contribute, and I want to feel purpose and passion and alignment and intention. I, that's why I think it's kind of a never-ending journey. Growth, self-improvement, self-awareness. I don't know if it ever really truly ends, because when it ends, I think fulfillment ends too.


Blake (00:45:09) - 100%. Yeah. Because, you know, at the end of the day, if you're sitting there and, uh, you know, if you're zoning out and not quite going anywhere, I mean, it doesn't lead to anything, anything, uh, positive or enriching happening in your life at the end of it. Cuz I don't know, I think of the lottery winners and things like that mm-hmm. , there are all kinds of, uh, horror stories, but again, there's, we're all wired a little bit differently and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, I, but I think for most of the people that are probably listening to this podcast and your podcast, um, yeah, that's an important thing to keep in mind is like, yes, it will get harder, but yes, you will feel fulfillment along the way too. Right. Yeah. So it's, uh, it's


Kevin (00:45:52) - A, it's a balance. It's a unique balance.


Blake (00:45:54) - It is. Well, I, in kind of closing out here, I wanted to just ask, what is the, uh, yeah, favorite thing about what you do over there? You know, do you have something?


Kevin (00:46:05) - Uh, just getting to see a change in real-time. Cool. There, the level of impact I'm blessed too, to get to have is just amazing. And the messages I get and that it's, there's nothing that can beat that because that's why I started, I didn't start this for money or so people would know my name. I started this because I said, wow, maybe the conversation I have with Dan will help somebody think differently. Let me do that. That is the best thing in the world. Because when you start for impact and you start for fulfillment and you continue getting that, it's just, yeah. It's, it's, it's a feeling that's very hard to replicate. So just the impact is my favorite thing.


Blake (00:46:50) - That's, well, I think that's wonderful Kevin, and thank you. Uh, you know, I feel blessed to have had you on the show today. Thank you. Thank you, for joining me. I appreciate you taking the time to do it. Um, where can people kind of keep up with you, and, uh, where do you want people to check you out?


Kevin (00:47:06) - I always just say, the podcast. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's the best place You're gonna get to know us and you'll figure out a, I'm the type of person who likes this. B it's not from me. Just search Next Level University. We're on all the podcast platforms and YouTube, and thank you for having me. I appreciate it very, very, very much.


Blake (00:47:21) - Of course. All right, everybody, have a great day. This was the G.E.M series. Remember to stay focused, stay sharp, and have a great week. All right. Bye.