The G.E.M. Series Episode 7 The Power of Community TK Johnson

[00:00:00] Blake: Welcome to the gym series for today's episode. I am thrilled to welcome my co-host the heed for Zod. She's a customer success executive responsible for reinventing the customer experience here at rocket level, the will be interviewing our guests. TK Johnson. TK is an author of riveting plot twists.

[00:00:19] Blake: Fantastic. And spell binding relationships. TK Johnson is a young adult fantasy author of the virtual bond series with four books published and another set for release in 2022. Her stories help readers space, the dragons of our world through fiction before they confront them. In reality Johnson hails from Fort Wayne, Indiana, where she creates from her 100 year old tiny house.

[00:00:42] Blake: Today, we're going to learn about her story and her journey as an entrepreneur who is doing something outside of the normal.

[00:00:52] TK: Well, thank you. My my desks it's right across from a window. I'm in a tiny house and the windows like right there, but depending on it's a sunny day, a dark day, it's like dark and rainy today. So. What to do to make this work? 

[00:01:05] Nahid: I'm, I'm, I'm actually in a hotel right now. So like I'm taking all of their, like lamps and this and that.

[00:01:11] Nahid: And I was like, put a clamp in front of me. The hotel rooms is like a total mess and I'm like, so paranoid about the noise. I mean, Lexington Kentucky. And so it's like in a downtown area and like two minutes ago, like a siren went by like a police siren or something. And I was like, oh my God. 

[00:01:29] TK: Hopefully if it happens, it happens.

[00:01:31] TK: If it happens, it happens the analogy. I remember, remind me again, where are you guys? I'm in Fort Wayne and. Oh, okay, 

[00:01:39] Nahid: cool. Cool. I definitely want to, I want to chat a little bit later about, you know, I, I know we're here to talk about, you know, your career and, you know, the books that you've published and all that, but I'm definitely interested just a teeny bit in this, like remodeling this house, you 

[00:01:53] TK: know?

[00:01:54] TK: Oh yeah. I'd love to tell you about it. Yeah. Yeah. One more site. Oh, no, sorry. I love technology. I'm good at it, but sometimes I forget just because I wrote it on my iPad doesn't mean I need my iPad. It's also right here on my other monitor. I stopped sharing. I can't even 

[00:02:11] Nahid: keep up, you know, we're young, we're hip we're connected and I still feel like I'm like, what is tick talk?

[00:02:16] Nahid: Like, what is 

[00:02:19] TK: news? Are you into the TechTalk? I wasn't until I was trying to sell more. So I got on tic-tac and it's kind of embarrassing, cause I don't feel qualified to say this at all, but I blew up, I got like millions of views on a video. I have like 28,000 followers now and I almost closed my account.

[00:02:38] TK: It was so scary. I'm like all these strangers, all these mean comments. Like I don't want to do this anymore. Like yeah, you got books, but I don't know if this is worth it. 

[00:02:47] Nahid: We have to come back to this. This is great. I. Oh, interesting. Wow. Okay. So you would love to go, like, I guess in like chronological order, I really want this to be, you know, telling your story about, you know, where you've kind of come from and you know, how this, this all came to be.

[00:03:04] Nahid: But I, I love this Tik TOK situation. We're coming back to this. 

[00:03:08] TK: Okay. Sounds good. Yeah. 

[00:03:10] Nahid: So I guess I know that you liked writing as a kid. I read your website and did a little research. But I guess when did it kind of start crossing your mind that this could be more than just like a hobby? 

[00:03:21] TK: I it's really funny.

[00:03:23] TK: I lived in Atlanta, we moved there for my husband's job. And I had eight months that I kinda just took off. Cause I had a very busy job in Indiana when we moved. Eight months where it was a little bit of a break from me, but I also couldn't find another job. My husband was touring doing live event production.

[00:03:41] TK: And so I was home alone with our dog and I got very bored. I'm scared of driving. It's a phobia of mine. Atlanta traffic was insane, so I never went anywhere and I just needed a creative outlet. I needed something to do with my time and energy. And I had a story idea for a long time. I had worked in the mental health field was a nonprofit, helping hurting teens.

[00:04:02] TK: And I had this story in my head. I, I saw the same patterns and things happening with teens when they were hurting ways that they felt alone and in ways where they did feel like they had community. And so I just kind of started writing this story and I wrote the whole thing, which for me was pretty easy, wrote the whole book.

[00:04:18] TK: My husband got me in contact with the ghost writer that he knew. She read my first chapter, critiques it and gave me feedback. And then I was on. That was really fun. What do I do with it now? Like do I just leave it sitting in my computer files and forget about it or do I share it with. And I shared it with a couple of friends, like a year later.

[00:04:38] TK: And then we moved back to Indiana a couple of years after that. And I said, okay, I want to do something with this. And I've shared it with enough people. They loved it. They want to know what happens next. They want a sequel. I don't see the point in writing books unless I'm sharing them with. Like these stories can help people.

[00:04:54] TK: And so I said, I'm going to share them with the world. And thankfully my husband knows how to do research. Cause I'm terrible at it. He figured out how to self publish. And so that's kind of the route I went down and now I have four published books. So 

[00:05:07] Nahid: I used some curious, like you wrote the first one and did you know like how the whole story was going to go or did you write the first one?

[00:05:14] Nahid: And then you were like, how am I going to kind of wrap this all up? 

[00:05:19] TK: Yeah. I'm what the experts advise you not to do. Cause I definitely didn't know where it was going to go. The, my, the books that I end up writing fully through are the ones where I know the ending to the book, but maybe, I don't know what's going to be a series, but I know the ending to the book and this story, I knew her ending and that's really where the idea started.

[00:05:39] TK: And it was figuring. What was her beginning? What was her story that led to that moment? It is a cliffhanger, so it makes sense that people wanted to SQL, but yeah, I never had a whole series planned out. And then after people kept saying, I want more, what happens next? Oh my gosh. I can't believe you ended it like that.

[00:05:56] TK: I really at first was like, You, you decide, what do you think really happened? What do you think is her future after everything she just went through? But it, it was unsettling for a lot of people to just leave it and come up with their own ending. And so I wrote two more books than a pre-qual and yeah.

[00:06:13] TK: But no, I definitely did not have. And they always tell you, I mean, any goal you have, any, any big dream you have, you should outline and plan a little bit. This one I did not. But after that first book, I definitely plan some more. Yup. So 

[00:06:26] Nahid: obviously you, you kind of like stumbled into this as your career.

[00:06:30] Nahid: It's not like you were like I'm or, or did you kind of say like, I'm gonna make this my career, like as soon as you kind of wrote the book, did you see that path or did you kind of say like to yourself, like maybe I should get a job while I do this? Like, did that cross your mind? 

[00:06:43] TK: No, I, it definitely was not a career path for me.

[00:06:45] TK: Again, I didn't know what to do with it. We were living in Atlanta. I needed to get a job and have some income. So I did go to work. And I worked at radius online, which is now rocket level amazing company. That's where I met friends who were like, we'd love to read what you wrote. And they gave me amazing feedback.

[00:07:01] TK: They helped develop the story into what it is like the team there. I cannot speak highly enough about their awesome. But no, I just kept going from job to job in my twenties. I, and I know this isn't usually advised, but I wanted to work with different teams. I wanted to try different jobs and roles because I wanted to really find my fit.

[00:07:19] TK: What was a great fit for me. Yeah. Full-time author kind of, I won't say it happened by accident, but a little bit. My husband has a very flexible schedule. He does live event production, so he works weekends evenings. His dad also was diagnosed with cancer and was in getting, he was getting more and more ill.

[00:07:37] TK: And so he wanted me to be able to go with him, to be with family, to take that time to not miss those opportunities. And I was. Struggling in a full-time job COVID had just hit actually. And it was a virtual solutions business. And so I was project managing for apps and websites and they just blew up because of COVID everyone wanted to go virtual and I was struggling because the long days my position ended up changing part partway through.

[00:08:03] TK: And I said, okay, because of what we're going through with family, because of your job versus my. It would be so much better for our marriage, for our family. If I did step down from this position and I said, I do want to pursue writing more. You know, this will give me time to write full-time. This will give me the opportunity to do, to do a ton more of what I love and not just work a job to, for the income to pay.

[00:08:25] TK: Right. So that's really how it happened. And you know, it's weird because it sounds like this amazing dream to be a full-time author. But there's a lot of factors in it. A lot of variables, it's not like I do sit at home and just write all day. 

[00:08:38] Nahid: That sounds very dreamy. I'm sure. So many hurdles that, that people don't even think about.

[00:08:44] Nahid: So I guess let's kind of talk about that. You know, because I'm interested in going the self published route, you know, what made you decide to do that versus the traditional route? And I guess, can you kind of explain for people what, what that traditional route is? Cause I know that I'm not really familiar with publishing type things, so 

[00:09:01] TK: yeah.

[00:09:02] TK: Yeah. Yeah, like you said, the two main paths you can take after you've written, the book is traditional publishing and self publishing. Traditional publishing are the books you see kind of the books you see on the stores at Barnes and noble on the shelves. When you walk into target and you see those shelves full of books, most of the time that's traditional publishing I've not been through the process myself yet.

[00:09:23] TK: And so. Say this is law when I explain what it is, but for the most part, you query an agents. You have to find someone to represent you and then you and that agent try to sell your manuscript to a publisher. That says we will help markets print. Do you know, do all the work behind getting your book into stores, and then you're working with your agency and marketing house to sell that book from everything I've heard, if you traditionally publish.

[00:09:50] TK: Usually you have to have your foot in the door somehow already, or some connections. That's usually how it happens. You also give up full creative control. You don't get to choose your book, title, your cover art. You might have to do rewrites in order for someone to be willing to buy that manuscript and publish it for.

[00:10:05] TK: And so it's, you know, the struggle is you give up your book baby, as everyone says. And so for me, that, that was a concern is my very first book. How many times do I want to do rewrites and edits? And you know, how, how long would it take to find an agent? How long would it take to then sell it to a publisher?

[00:10:22] TK: Many people say it takes years or decades, you know, So that was a lot of stuff I had to factor in. Whereas self publishing on the other side, it's amazing. The world we live in and the technology that we have because Amazon Barnes and noble, there's so many different sites for eBooks, where I actually can go in, upload my own manuscript, upload my own cover arts, give all the information and sell the book myself.

[00:10:47] TK: It's print to order. Which means I'm not spending hundreds of dollars up front to get boxes of books to try to sell to people. They, I just say, yeah, jump on Barnes and noble. You can buy my book online. There's a middle company that you can pay to get your books in stores on shelves, but then again, it's paying and as a self-publish or as a new author, I knew that I, I didn't know if my stores that good.

[00:11:10] TK: Of course my friends are gonna tell me it's amazing, but wasn't really, am I really that good at this? And so I didn't want to invest too much money, not knowing if this was a great career path or something extra pursue. And so I was like, okay, I don't want to give up creative control yet. And I don't want to go to.

[00:11:27] TK: I'm going to self publish and see how that goes. Thankfully it's been a great response. It's been so such a learning experience. I'm writing a book now that I do want to pursue traditional publishing with, because I want to learn that route and see what it's like and be able to speak on it. But the self publishing route I love to, I can do whatever I want with my marketing, with my books, with my stories.

[00:11:45] TK: And it's. I 

[00:11:47] Nahid: mean, that's just, I think also just part of the draw of being entrepreneur and having that ability to, to have control over the decisions that are being made about your business and your brand. I think that's cool that you decided to do that. Like while you're, while you're still building your brand, you know So I, I guess I would assume you would encounter a lot of, you know, criticism also, like, you know, not, not only probably from people who've read the books, but maybe people in your life, like, as you're kind of going along thinking like, is she really gonna do this?

[00:12:17] Nahid: You know? So I guess, can you talk a little bit about how you kind of handle those kinds of naysayers? 

[00:12:24] TK: Oh, yeah, it's hard that, I mean, you have your own self critic, but the outside critics that you get to just make it that much harder when you're already pushing yourself to do it and encouraging yourself that it's worth it.

[00:12:38] TK: It's hard to say, but you know, family and friends, while they are your biggest supporters, they can also be your biggest downfall and your biggest naysayers. Most of the time, when I tell someone I wrote a book, they're like, oh my gosh, really? Like, who published it? How how'd you do it? And I was like, well, I self published and they go, oh, oh.

[00:12:55] TK: So not like a real book. I'm like, no, no, this is. A real book, like, what do you call this? Yeah, it took a long time to write and I edited and I went through all like, it's real. But that's, I would say that's honestly the biggest criticism or, you know, I've known people who go straight and they're so successful and it's like, oh, but you're not the author.

[00:13:19] TK: It's like you explain, 

[00:13:20] Nahid: I literally wrote this book. Like, what does that mean for those who don't know. 

[00:13:25] TK: I think there's different levels of it. Really. The, the basic explanation I can give is that ghost writing is when someone comes with to you with an idea or a plan of what they want their book to be, and you kind of are the one that really writes it out.

[00:13:39] TK: Maybe they give you an outline and you really fill it in. So it's not someone who just goes through and edits or does a few rewrites. Like they write a lot of the book, but it's under a different. Okay, so I could hire you saying I've got this great book about women empowerment and encouragement. And here, my main points, I really want to dive deep in, but I just don't really know how to write.

[00:13:59] TK: You would write the book for me. You get paid for that writing and it's my face and name on the book. That's kind of like very quick. Sum-up. But I 

[00:14:07] Nahid: can imagine, like, you're saying, like, those people get told to cope, but you're not the author, like 

[00:14:13] TK: yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, but your face and name is on that book.

[00:14:16] TK: Is it really something you wrote? Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, there's a lot of criticism. And then of course I have been blessed that everyone who's read my book that I know of has messaged me or left a review. That's been positive. I have yet to get my negative review. I know it's coming. Everyone gets one. Yeah, I there's, there's also just the flack of, oh, well you wrote this genre.

[00:14:38] TK: It wasn't long enough or, oh, you wrote these tropes. We're so sick of those tropes, you know, in books. So there's all these little nitpicky things, but the biggest one is usually just like, oh, but you're not a real author or. Yeah. Yeah. Something to that effect you. Yeah. 

[00:14:53] Nahid: Yeah. I remember when I got my first sales job, so I've been in sales and I've since transitioned to like operations.

[00:15:00] Nahid: But when I got my first sales job, I remember like the hiring manager was like, this is really hard. You're going to get a lot of nos. And I was thinking about. Well, who cares? So what, I'll just move on to the next phone call. You know what I mean? And then about six weeks in I'm crying in the bathroom because somebody told me to get a real job.

[00:15:15] Nahid: And I was like, oh, you know, and it still 

[00:15:19] TK: does 

[00:15:20] Nahid: at some point come to really affect you, even if you don't think it will. Do you feel like you've encountered, I know you mentioned that you are pretty popular in tech talk have you encountered type of harsh criticism that. 

[00:15:31] TK: A little bit, I mean, there's some criticism and there's some just almost unspoken things that are just a lot harder to get by.

[00:15:39] TK: For example, my family and my mom did not like my books in the beginning. She was like, please publish under a pen name. I don't want people to think this is about our family. It's terrible. This is so embarrassing. So she was, she was not a fan of my book in the beginning now she's my biggest fan. She wants to read every book first, but then I have family that could be.

[00:15:58] TK: I have a sister who buys the books to support me, but I know she'll never read them. I have another sister who's like, oh, you're so creative and wonderful. Nothing, nothing to do with my books, you know? Yeah. And it's just like, oh, that's that little thing you do on the side or, oh, that's so cute. You know, and some of this stuff has never said, it's just, you know, that they're not really supporting you.

[00:16:19] TK: And I'm talking family, friends in general. I mean, you know, that. Following your author account or liking posts or sharing with friends or saying, my kids love fantasy. I'll buy your books for them. It kind of just, but, and they don't realize it. And it's hard because you do tend to take it personally as an author.

[00:16:37] TK: You tend to take it personally when you're like, this is what I do now. This is a passion of mine. You know, you want them to be excited for you. But countering that, yeah. By self publishing and even not self publishing. When you traditionally publish, you are in charge of a lot of your own marketing it's on you to really get out there and talk about it.

[00:16:54] TK: So Instagram, oh, I broke into the world of tech talk. I feel way too old for it. I'm not, but I feel like I am. Yeah, I did a video series, not even about books. You know, it's an author account. It's about my books is about writing, about being an avid reader. But I made a silly video about my husband coming back from the airport and me going to pick him up.

[00:17:17] TK: It's like a three-part series and it just blew up overnight. I had like 2 million views. Thousands of followers from it. It's like the unhealthy kind of followers because they're not supporting everything you do anymore. It was just like an instant fame kind of thing. It was very scary. It was very scary.

[00:17:34] TK: There was a lot of hate and criticism there. Just about the video, not even about my books or anything, but it just, no, it just, but it did make me think, do I just need to cancel this account? Like that many people have seen my face, know my name, know I'm a writer now and it's very intimidating. It is. I dunno, I'm a big advocate for healthy social media, approaching it in a very mentally health way, healthy way.

[00:17:56] TK: Followers and likes, literally mean nothing. They don't mean a thing. It, yeah, it's a chemical endorphin rush. When you get a new follower, when you get a new, like when you get a share. Yeah, but what does that actually do for your life? And the answer is nothing. But luckily for me, because it's my author count, it led to book sales and hopefully then reads to recommendations for more book sales so that I can really have the income to keep writing books and putting them out there and pay for cover art.

[00:18:21] TK: And, you know, also just for these stories to spread and get told. So yeah, there's so much positive. Feelings, I guess that come from that from positive marketing. When you have it from the love that you see from people online, because it's not all bad, it's definitely not. But the, the readers that directly message me and I know it's scary.

[00:18:41] TK: You're like, oh my gosh, I can't message an author, but the ones that do, oh my gosh, I love them. We talk about it because I am such a fan of my own books. Like. I it's my own fandom, really. And so when someone else joins and enjoys it, like I will text and DM and whatever that, that reader just talking about their favorite characters, favorite points of the story, what they hope happens.

[00:19:03] TK: And I get so much from that and I know that they do to. Yeah, it's definitely a way to counter the negative that comes from family, from friends, from other, from other people that hear about what you do. 

[00:19:14] Nahid: Yeah. Putting name out there and in your being, not just on social media, but just, you know, being an author you're, you're out there, you're in front of the public, you know, I can imagine you really have to have like those, those tools to kind of tap into when you're having a day.

[00:19:27] Nahid: You know, you're feeling like, you know, you're lacking support or the motivation to kind of continue. And, and really what I think is interesting also is you, I mean, you're your own boss, you're your own motivation? Like how do you make sure that you stay on track with things when you're literally like alone in a room and you're like, get to work, 

[00:19:46] TK: you know, how do you do that?

[00:19:48] TK: Yeah. Well, luckily for me, I'm a very type a personality. I like to stay busy. It really bugs me when I'm bored. Now I definitely have lazy days. I have days where I'm like, I'd rather just sit and watch this Netflix show that I just caught onto and binge watch it all today. Or do anything else than rights.

[00:20:04] TK: Yeah. But I like to stay busy and I always remind myself of how much of a bummer it is when I don't hit my goals. When those goals fly past me and it's disappointing. So I quit. Remember how that feels. It's not. Motivate yourself to do this. Creating good habits is a huge one as well. I'm reading atomic habits right now and it's, it's stuff like that.

[00:20:24] TK: I know, but hearing it again, seeing it again, being reminded of it is so powerful. And so building those good habits because we have them one way, right. You're their bad habits are good ones. So which one are you going to choose? Which one are you gonna work towards? That definitely helps me get my work done when I am my own boss and building a community of other people.

[00:20:42] TK: I have gone to a couple of conferences and met some people that are also writers and some of us have just connected enough that we reach out we'll text each other or we'll shoot each other, a message over social media and just be like, Hey. Hey, did you get that chapter done? You want it? Where you at today?

[00:20:58] TK: Did you write any words, like get down and write, you know, so having a community. Yeah. It's huge. It's very important. Yeah. 

[00:21:06] Nahid: Having a accountability, buddy, you know, I think that's so important because even though you're alone, you know, you find ways to not be alone, you know, to not feel alone. Yeah. 

[00:21:17] TK: Yeah. And I know that there's a very, a tortured artist side to people, especially writers.

[00:21:22] TK: So having people there to help you not feel alone is, is big. Cause sometimes that's what keeps you from hitting those goals. 

[00:21:29] Nahid: Yeah. So I kind of want to talk a little bit more about the, kind of the goals that you set, because I'm sure like, you know, once you hit certain benchmarks, that goal is always like moving, you know, w I was I'm wondering, I guess, what was the goal when you.

[00:21:43] Nahid: Kind of started on this journey where you were like, if I do this, I'm good. I've made it. And like, did you just kind of always feel like, well, now I have to do this. Now I have to do this like that. You know, that bar keeps moving, right? 

[00:21:55] TK: Yeah. Oh yeah, definitely. And I think that that is so healthy. You should always be improving, improving yourself.

[00:22:01] TK: You should always be growing in what you do. So for that bar to keep moving, it's so good for us. It's so good for us. And I love it for me. It just started with. Give the book to friends, it's scary is very vulnerable to be like, I wrote this fantasy story and you know, it's embarrassing because people are like, oh, you're so immature.

[00:22:21] TK: You wrote fantasy. And you're like out of high school, what are you doing with your life? But and there's that negative criticism again, but that first step was vulnerability, letting other people read it. The next step was opening up to more people. What do they think really? Harsher critiques and feedback, not just, is it good, but tell me what could make it better because it hurts a little because you think that what you wrote is amazing and then you have people being like this part sucks, you know, like that was the best.

[00:22:49] TK: Apparently not. And then it's, you know, how can I put this out to the world? You know, those little bars? Yes. They just keep growing. I know for me now I usually set like some big goals. I'm like my big goal is to write a book and get it traditionally published. That means writing something that agents are looking for, which means I'm growing and expanding my skillset.

[00:23:07] TK: I'm writing a genre. That's new to me, which I know will force me to grow another. That will help my fiction world too, or my more fantasy fantasy. And this, this book. Yeah. This one is contemporary fiction. Yeah. Which contemporary I'm like how boring there's no magic or monsters, but you know what? The real world has magic and monsters they're just seen in other ways.

[00:23:28] TK: So that's no, that's good. That's interesting. So I set those big dreams and those big goals, but then I have the daily and weekly stuff too. Like the little nitty gritty things. 

[00:23:40] Nahid: Yeah. Okay, great. So, so they also kind of wanted to touch on, especially because, you know, we wanted to have these conversations with women in March because it's women's empowerment.

[00:23:50] Nahid: And I think that, I mean, anybody probably deals with imposter syndrome, but I think women in particular and something that you said that really just kind of. You know, I had my ears perk up was when you said like, oh, you know, sometimes people will say like, oh, that's so cute that you right. You know, and I almost wonder, like, if it was a man, would he be getting the, oh, that's precious, your little hobby, you know what I mean?

[00:24:11] Nahid: Like, so I'm sure that you get some that, you know, cause you're a woman. So I guess, can you talk a little bit about, you know, any hurdles that you feel like you've encountered in that regard and maybe how imposter syndrome kind of, I guess, plays a part 

[00:24:22] TK: in. Luckily with what I do, women are the majority.

[00:24:27] TK: And I don't remember the exact percentages and statistics, but more women read than men. My genre, you know, fantasy and fiction. There's a lot more men readers there than maybe nonfiction. At least it seems like it a lot more male authors as well. But yeah. There's critique. Like, what do you know about this?

[00:24:45] TK: We know about that. How can you write from a male's perspective? One of my books the main characters of black man, and, you know, there's a lot of controversy there is it okay for me to write a man as a main character as a woman. And can I write about a black man as a white woman, you know, and there's, I know there's a lot of debate, a lot of discussion that happens there for me.

[00:25:06] TK: I'm like, it's a fictional world, the pains and hurts of our world don't exist in this world because they didn't go through the things we went through, but I have to be careful to represent people the right way to but yeah, imposter syndrome is huge. And I would say as a woman, it's more difficult, not so much because we're being compared to men sometimes, but because we're being compared to other women we know that we judge each other, like, I mean, we try not to, we definitely don't.

[00:25:30] TK: But we walk into a room and we judge ourselves based on the woman we see so often, like it's what women do. And I think it's a lifetime goal to try to fight that and to look at another woman with positivity, at least where I grew up, you know, it wasn't encouraged, but you saw it happening all around. And so you learn to do it too.

[00:25:47] TK: And that's the biggest thing for me. I was at. Like one day conference and it wasn't even about writing. It was about goals and growth and community as about how to build community. And a woman got up, she was a writer and I right away started comparing myself to her. I was like, oh my gosh, she's a writer.

[00:26:02] TK: She's only written one book and she's on stage speaking. I've written four books. No one wants me on stage. No, one's asking me to do work. I'm amazing at writing, but nobody's, you know, inviting me. And it's so funny cause we're talking about community and here I am ousting myself from being a part of any community.

[00:26:17] TK: Like I'm setting myself out without anyone else doing it. I've told myself I don't belong or that I'm not good enough simply because I compared myself. And so I think imposter syndrome from women is more something we do to ourselves than what we see from outside. 

[00:26:35] Nahid: Oh a hundred percent. I feel like, you know, also I kind of want to just explain for those who don't know or I guess, can you, can you give a good explanation of it because I'll probably have a clunky explanation.

[00:26:47] TK: Okay. See, here's the thing, I'm a great writer, but if I don't prepare what I'm going to say, imposter imposter syndrome is when you don't think you're good enough. I think that's the best way to say it pretty much. Maybe you are totally qualified. But you've convinced yourself that you're an imposter that you don't belong there, that you know, that you shouldn't even do it because of X, Y, Z.

[00:27:12] TK: Yeah. Like give me a better definition, please share. No, I think, I think 

[00:27:16] Nahid: that you, you hit it, like, it's like you almost like conned your way into your success. 

[00:27:20] TK: Yeah. 

[00:27:21] Nahid: Just like yeah. 

[00:27:23] TK: You know, somebody get to your makeup. Yeah. You feel like you're faking it the whole time. That's imposter syndrome. 

[00:27:30] Nahid: Do you feel like you've like gotten over that hurdle, like now that you've published four books and then you would have all the success to say, like, you've done it, but do you still feel that now?

[00:27:39] TK: You know, I, with my writing, not so much. Because I have published four books because I look at the critiques like Tik TOK, again, there's so many authors and writers out there that will sit down and give advice and teach you how to write. And I listened to it. I'm like, okay, I know that I've done that.

[00:27:55] TK: I've done that. Okay. I know that. And so I feel like I'm at a spot where there's always room to grow and learn, but I feel very accomplished that I can write a very good story that I can craft it and mold these worlds and just. Such an enjoyable experience for a reader, but of course, like we talked about earlier, that bar moves.

[00:28:13] TK: So now that I feel like I'm not an imposter in my writing or my books, I feel like I'm an imposter in other ways, like I'm looking at, should I pursue being a coach, a writing coach, should I do copy editing for people? And that's where I feel imposter syndrome. I'm like, who am I to tell someone else how to write their story?

[00:28:29] TK: Who am I to give them? Better technique or development. But then I'm like, I've published four books. I know what I'm doing. I've received great feedback and love. People love the stories. So clearly I'm good at this. Why can I not be good enough to help others? And what I love about the world of writing is it's not a competition, which is amazing.

[00:28:51] TK: Like there's no competition. It's not, I can't, I, it's not about me selling more books than Jane who lives across the street. You know, we're both selling books and it's great. And it's all about helping each other. Yeah, the imposter syndrome hits in that I am just not qualified to help other people write stories.

[00:29:07] Nahid: Yeah. But I mean, I think that that's, that's cool that you're able to, like, you know, it just kind of like reset your mind and say like, well, no, I have success. I proved to myself that, that, you know, I have these skills to do this. You know, I think that that's so important when you're an entrepreneur like yourself, you know, to be able to have that mind racing.

[00:29:25] Nahid: Do you kind of do anything else or have any other tools, I guess, to offer people who are feeling like, you know, it kind of just that, that feeling of, you know, I'm not 

[00:29:34] TK: good enough. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I always say, find that. I mean the community doesn't have to be a ton of people. It can be one or two, three or four, you know, it can be a small group.

[00:29:46] TK: I know most towns, like I live in a small town, they have a writers group with various different meetups for different kinds of writing that you do find a community, find someone in your town, find a friend to keep you accountable to a healthy mindset because you cannot do it alone. Like I am such a believable believer that some of the evilest things in this world.

[00:30:07] TK: The F the belief that we're alone, like that is such a toxin to your mind, like that is the cancer of the brain. Even if you don't have, you know, the cancer of the body, like it just tears people apart, just that feeling of loneliness and believing. There is no one there for. And that they are not good enough.

[00:30:24] TK: So find someone to support you find that person, you can be like, I'm not feeling it today, or I'm really down and be super open and open and vulnerable and just make sure that person will get real with you. Like not just play nice. Like you need that person who will tell you the hard truth when you need it, but then uplift you and you need it as well.

[00:30:42] TK: I think that is the key to succeeding really. And to not feeling like an imposter. And once you hear it from other people, you get so much better at reminding you. Yeah. Again, my husband was like, Caitlyn, it's a really good book. Everyone says, so I'm like, yeah, but not the right people say so. And he's like, what makes their opinion better than these opinions?

[00:31:02] TK: And I'm like, well, that's true. They read a hundred books a year and this person is just makes a lot of money. Why would they have a better opinion than the people who read a hundred books a year? You know? So having that in your head, hearing it from others, teaches you how to repeat it to yourself, teaches you how to see and break that.

[00:31:20] TK: What is it 

[00:31:21] Nahid: called? It's such a, like a popular phrase now it's like saying mantras to yourself. Positive affirmation. Oh yeah. 

[00:31:28] TK: Positive affirmations. Yeah. I know. But I like the practice. I liked the idea, 

[00:31:35] Nahid: but that's what it is. It's saying those positive things, even if you don't feel, you know, you're your best today, if you don't feel smart enough, you don't feel like you're enough for the situation.

[00:31:43] Nahid: You just say it in the mirror. And it feels really stupid at first, you know, you're kind of just like talking. I do like I'm like, well, and after a while you start to be like, Okay, I'm smart and capable. I can handle this, 

[00:31:56] TK: you know, like it really does work. So I think you have to say you are humble. I feel like sometimes I do need that one to Caitlin.

[00:32:05] TK: You are humble about how good you are writing books. You're smelling beautiful. You're beautiful. But you're also humble. Like you 

[00:32:14] Nahid: guys really that's really important to remember too. That's great. So I guess I'm curious, like, was there kind of a wow moment for you? Was there a moment where you were. This is working like this is clicking.

[00:32:25] Nahid: Or do you feel like that that doesn't exist for 

[00:32:28] TK: people or for yourself? Oh, it totally exists. I think that those are the moments we really love and strive for. Those are very exciting ones. I know I have them little moments, little wild moments when I'm writing. I do what they call writing in the dark.

[00:32:42] TK: So I don't outline a ton. I don't plan it all out. Sometimes I like it to just come to me as I'm going. But I remember I was writing book three. Of my series and I just had this one, I was like, oh my God. Oh, my gosh, I got so excited. Look one. I said this, what is that? I mean, that could mean this. Like I had no meaning for this dialogue that this person said it just, you know, helped the story flow.

[00:33:05] TK: And then all of a sudden I put so much more significance on that one sentence. This girl said, and suddenly I had a whole new character arc for her. And so it was a great, wow. Grease spark light bulb moment. It was amazing. Of course when I published my second book or no, when I went big on Tik TOK, everything exploded.

[00:33:22] TK: My book sales exploded. I was like, oh wow, like scary, but great. Wow. And then I was like, I could really do this. I could really keep pouring into my market. And really make this even more than it has been. So that was a very different, but very another really cool wow moment. Yeah. Yeah. I think that also just 

[00:33:39] Nahid: goes back to what you were saying about like community.

[00:33:41] Nahid: Like, even if you don't fully know everybody on all those 28,000 people on 

[00:33:45] TK: Tik TOK, you like, that's another 

[00:33:46] Nahid: community, people that are mostly supporting you, you know, that's, that's very cool. Well I guess, you know, something else I kind of wanted to touch on Was, you know, did you have moments, you know, while you see the success happening where you kind of thought, I don't know if this is, you know, going to work out in the long run.

[00:34:08] Nahid: Like, did you have those kinds of stumbles, even though you'd already published a book or two, or did it kind of go pretty smoothly for you where you kind of had confidence throughout the whole journey? 

[00:34:19] TK: Yeah, it's, it's funny. My husband had just gotten into like an argument about this last night for me.

[00:34:26] TK: The success for me, the success is always, can I make money doing this? And usually with selling books, there's not a lot of money in it. Whether you're self publishing, traditionally publishing you get royalties, you get a percentage, a very small percentage of that book sale. So when you spend $10 on my paperback, I'm only getting like a dollar and 2 cents.

[00:34:51] TK: And royalties. And so, and that's like making up that number, but it's a dollar, something like that's all I get when someone buys a book and what's funny is they say that self publishing makes a little bit more money than traditionally publishing does. And so it's all about how many books you can sell, how much you can keep people involved to keep reading.

[00:35:10] TK: And so for me, success, 'cause I left a job and stayed home to do this. Even though there are various reasons, I'm like, okay, I'm only successful. If I'm bringing in income to help pay the bills, help pay off my student loans, you know, things like that. And, and that was part of our argument last night because my husband was challenging me.

[00:35:27] TK: Why is it about money? Like, what I make now is, is fine. Like the few, the here and there, book sales I do now. It's okay. The point of doing this was to get my story out to people and to do something I loved and to create something that left me feel, feeling fulfilled and inspired other people too. And he was like that, that was the point.

[00:35:50] TK: So why, why is it turned into. I have to make money off of it. And I'm like, because I feel like I need to. And that's what the world tells us is that, you know, it's all about money, but it's not. And I need that reminder very often, but yeah, sometimes what success looks like needs to change. It changed in a negative way for me.

[00:36:09] TK: And I'm trying to get back on track with, what does this really look like? Do I just keep writing? Because that's what I love to do. If I do writing coaching, am I successful because I'm helping other people tell their stories. That needs to be my mindset in it, or I feel like I shouldn't even go for that next goal because it's with the wrong motivation.

[00:36:27] TK: Yeah. 

[00:36:27] Nahid: No, I 

[00:36:28] agree. 

[00:36:28] TK: And I don't even know if that answered your question kind of. No, 

[00:36:36] Nahid: I agree. I think that we put so much pressure on like, does it make sense? And it's like, when you go off on your own to be an entrepreneur, I feel like money cannot always be the only motivation. Like you have to get yourself up every day to continue on this journey.

[00:36:52] Nahid: And, and you know, it, that's not always going to pay, pay off every single day, one day, you know, hopefully it will. And I'm sure it will for you, but you know, you have to have some. So, I guess, you know, something else that we kind of touched on with this is, you know, you have, you know, flexibility and you have you know, other motivations outside of money.

[00:37:10] Nahid: And, and one of the things I know that you guys are doing as you're rebuilding a, an old house, a hundred year 

[00:37:15] TK: old house, right? Yes. Yeah. When we moved back to Fort Wayne, we've always loved living tiny. We wanted to do it when we lived in Atlanta and it just, it didn't work out. I ended up moving back to Indiana and we said, this is our time.

[00:37:29] TK: This is our chance. Let's find a tiny house. There's a lot of zoning laws and rules about tiny house on wheels, which is what we wanted to do. Let's start simple. So we found a hundred year old, tiny house at 600 square foot. So I think technically it's just too big to be an official, tiny house, but 600 square feet.

[00:37:48] TK: We bought it for like $50,000 and we said, if we screw it up, at least we didn't invest, you know, $200,000 in a house. So we have been remodeling has been a ton of fun. We have. So much. But yeah, we've lived in it as we've remodeled too. So you're looking at my loft right now. This is, I am sitting at one end of our house and you can see the other end of the house.

[00:38:10] TK: That's how big it is. So this railing is in my living room and kitchen. That's 

[00:38:17] Nahid: awesome. I think it's cool that you would have. The flexibility to explore other interests, their passions, you know, being your own boss and investing in yourself. And, and that's, I would say another motivation, right? To do 

[00:38:30] TK: the work that you do.

[00:38:32] TK: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's definitely important to have a hobby outside your house. When your hobby becomes your full-time something, it's what you love. And that's what you're spending all day doing. You need something else. You've got to step away from it, especially if you're creative for me. Oh my gosh. I'm trying to think.

[00:38:49] TK: I am that person who explores hobbies, because if I'm not good at it, sometimes I'd get rid of it and try something new. But I know that outside of writing, you know, I have tried paint-by-number. I work on the house. Of course I have dogs. So I'm like, okay, let's let's play or let's train. I've picked up embroidery Lees recently.

[00:39:08] TK: Cause that sounded like a fun bookish thing to try. I know my husband does what he loves. Yeah, he does. He loves full-time. So golf is his escape. Like he loves to golf. That's his time away to do something. Other thing that's fun. So yeah, having a different. So you can still enjoy your first hobby is great.

[00:39:26] TK: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:39:27] Nahid: And you can really spend the time to enjoy those things because you've invested the time in yourself to, to have that flexibility. So that's very cool. 

[00:39:33] TK: Yeah. Yeah. So, and you don't want to get burnt out? 

[00:39:36] Nahid: No, no. You don't want to get burnt down. I feel like that's such a, such an issue these days, especially with the pandemic and especially being your own boss, you know, it's really hard to unplug and step away from work.

[00:39:46] Nahid: It's always on our 

[00:39:47] TK: phones. Yeah. Oh, my gosh, I highly recommend taking things off your phone. I know I got an, I just, yeah, I'm a scroller. Like, I, I don't even realize it, but I pick up my phone. I start scrolling. I'm like, what am I, what am I doing? I did this two minutes ago. There's nothing new to look at.

[00:40:06] TK: So I put it down, but yeah, I got an iPad. I'm like, okay, everything goes on my iPad. And my phone is like the bare minimum because I wanted to break that habit. Unconsciously, like picking up my phone and looking at it. So, yeah. Anyway, 

[00:40:21] Nahid: we were talking about earlier about how it's so important to create good habits and force yourself to, because, I mean, I think we're all a little bit of a scroller.

[00:40:29] Nahid: I mean, my God it's so, so terrible. How often you'll pick up the phone five minutes after you 

[00:40:33] TK: put it down, but that's really forcing yourself to create 

[00:40:37] Nahid: that good habit to say, I'm going to focus right now. 

[00:40:40] TK: No, I think that's good. I don't want to sound like the queen of it. I'm not good at it. I'm not going to lie.

[00:40:44] TK: Instagram is back on my phone again, and I just thought yesterday. Crap, take it back off.

[00:40:53] TK: That's the point you try. Unlike Yoda, you know, there is no try. There is a try. You try. No, that's great. 

[00:41:01] Nahid: So I guess the last thing I kind of want to touch on here as, do you have any just kind of general advice for people. Afraid to kind of take that leap. Maybe people who, you know, are kind of maybe in a more traditional role or something like that.

[00:41:13] Nahid: And they have a passion that they want to go after, but they're scared, you know, what would you say to those 

[00:41:17] TK: people? Yeah. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Get started now. That's kind of my biggest advice. When I worked at radius online, which is now rocket level they had this great phrase of done is better than.

[00:41:34] TK: And I struggled with that. I'm a one on the Enneagram. I am type a IMTJ Myers-Briggs like, no, no things need to be perfect. They need to be just right before anything goes out into the world. But I know that VU and Lonnie both like talked to me through at one time and they're like, okay, here's what it means.

[00:41:50] TK: Like you can have a website built and try so hard to make it perfect, but the whole time you're trying to make it perfect. No, one's able to go see anything. No. One's seeing the books that I wrote. They're not reading about the services I provide. They're not hearing the podcast I recorded because my website just isn't perfect yet, but sometimes just having it done and putting it out there is better than it being perfect.

[00:42:14] TK: I can still perfect it. As people are seeing things as they're able to buy my books, watch my podcast, interviews, things like that. So if you're like, oh, I really want to be an entrepreneur. I want to go do this thing that I love, but I, you know, have a full-time job. How do I do it? Or I'm scared to. Get started.

[00:42:30] TK: You don't have to leave your full-time job. It's actually recommended if you're going to do something like this, if you're going to be an entrepreneur, keep hustling in your full-time job, but then start doing this on the side. You know, if you have a family, I know that can be hard to find the time. Talk to your family and say, okay, what is the one hour I can have just for myself to work on this, this project, this dream, this goal and then commit to that one hour being about that every day or whenever you can spare it, but build up what it is your dream is until you're at the point where you can go do it.

[00:42:59] TK: Full-time and you can just dive into it. For me. I was blessed that circumstances and everything works. That I probably should have stayed at a full-time job, but because of what was happening with family, because of my husband's work that he does, it just was a better fit for me just to leave. And it was a huge blessing that I know a lot of people don't get, but yeah, just start little and build it up as you go until you're at the point where I'm like, I need to spend all my time on this because this has become the bigger thing.

[00:43:28] TK: That. Thanks job. That's just paying the bills. I'm ready to go live the dream now. But you don't have to wait until it's that big and that successful to do it. You can start on the process. 

[00:43:39] Nahid: No, I think that's really great advice because I feel like the hardest part of anything is starting, 

[00:43:44] TK: right? Yeah.

[00:43:45] TK: Yeah, absolutely. Well, 

[00:43:48] Nahid: do you have do you want to like plug your Instagram website? Give us all the plugs. 

[00:43:54] TK: Yeah. All right. Well, My name is TK Johnson. I wrote a book series called the Laurel Von series. Very exciting. It is why a fiction about a young girl who has a difficult home life and ends up in a new world where she is chosen to save her, destroy it based on her choices.

[00:44:13] TK: And while it sounds like a typical book plot it's anything but that it's about heroes who make mistakes, villains who save their lives. And what happens and how you forgive people when they've done you wrong. But my website is TK Johnson, books.com. You can find me on Instagram at TK Johnson, underscore author ticks hock at TK Johnson author.

[00:44:34] TK: And of course, Facebook, Twitter as well. TK Johnson author. I am out there. I try to do writing advice for people. If you're interested in being a writer, if you're interested in reading the books, message me. I love talking to people directly about their process, what they're doing. I'm dipping my feet into writing coaching.

[00:44:50] TK: Now I have a friend, I have a call with her right after this, to talk about her book and the first five chapters and how to help her grow as a writer. So yeah, I just love being able to help people tell their stories to. There's my plug. Thank you so much for 

[00:45:05] Nahid: coming on. I feel like you had so much, like so many good nuggets of advice for people.

[00:45:09] Nahid: I can't wait for everybody to 

[00:45:11] TK: listen. Well, thank you. I love that. When you reached out to me, I was like, oh, this is going to be so fun. I don't even know what direction it will go, but we'll figure it out. As we're talking this, this is going to be an awesome podcast. So I'm very excited for what you guys are doing with the gem series.

[00:45:25] TK: And I hope. Skyrockets. And because I think you guys are going to reach a lot of people who need to hear what you have to say and what your guests have to say. Can't can't 

[00:45:35] Nahid: wait. I'm so excited to have you on. Thank you so much for everything.

[00:45:42] Blake: Thank you for joining us on this episode of the gym series, the podcast for anybody dedicated to investing in themselves, stay tuned for our next episode and look in the links below for resources that you can use for yourself until next time. This is Blake Chapman, and remember to be awesome and do awesome things.