The G.E.M. Series Episode 12: Tapping Into Your Purpose With Pamela James 

[00:00:00] Blake: Welcome to today's episode of the GEM series. Today, we have a very special guest Pamela James. Pamela is an American designer who received a degree in the arts from the University of Georgia and Athens. She is a self-taught designer who has redesigned clothing since her teens and her early twenties.
[00:00:19] She experimented with smocking and pattern making and was introduced to textured fibers and the limitless ways to use them through the design process. She discovered that dressing a woman's body could and should be less cumbersome. If the fabric maintained a certain weight and flow, this inspired her to create a line of timelessly elegant pieces that reflect a modern woman's style and sophistication.
[00:00:41] What I found fascinating about her company is that they sponsor a group of women who were once entertainers of the monarchy of India. After the monarchy fell, this group struggled to find a skill set, and it's one of the few villages that celebrate the birth of a female child as she'll provide income for the family through prostitution.
[00:00:59] Her company is dedicated to stimulating textile job growth and providing vocational training through financial support, eliminating the economic need for further exploitation of women in this region. Pamela's newest initiative is to get 100 million people to dedicate themselves to only buying 20 items of clothing a year.
[00:01:18] This impact would cut down the production amount by two-thirds. Pamela has always been movement-oriented and has spent her life making other people even better. I was honored to get to hear her stories and you will learn so so much. All right, everybody. Welcome to today's episode of the gym series. We have a very special guest here, Pamela James, and you know, just to give you all a little bit of background, Pamela has constantly been challenging the way that fashion happens, seeking to do everything from making the manufacturing process more sustainable to learning, how to create jobs that can create, can actually improve people's lives.
[00:01:55] And also creating garments that are stylish and versatile. I could harp on forever really about Pamela, but beyond this, she actually is starting a movement right now to reform the way that we buy clothes and is seeking to gather 100 million signatures of people committing to buy no more than 20 articles of clothing per year.
[00:02:16] Her company is called Poloma St. James, and by better forever, Pamela, welcome to the show. Well, thank 
[00:02:22] Pamela: you so much. I want to meet that lady Pamela, that you're talking about. Well, thanks so much for inviting me down, and thanks for much for you know, I don't know if I looked yesterday, but did you have a chance to sign up for 
[00:02:34] Blake: that?
[00:02:35] I actually wrote a note today that I need to sign up as soon as we're done, so 
[00:02:40] Pamela: good. Excellent. 
[00:02:41] Blake: Excellent. Yeah. You know, As somebody that's been a CEO of your own fashion brand for a really long time. Could you just tell the audience a little bit about what your kind of current mission is? Okay, 
[00:02:52] Pamela: well it's really been a journey more so than, than, than a mission.
[00:02:56] It turned into a mission. So the journey began wanting to really simplify what women were wearing. I really want it to really empower us. There's no man sitting at the boardroom worrying about his button or his pants or his blouse. It just doesn't happen. But in our world, you know, there are a lot of women who are sitting there worrying about those things.
[00:03:17] So I started studying fabric to figure out what could happen so that women could be as comparable as men. Because you know, when you're on your, a game, particularly in a board meeting, you need to be able to think clearly, and you don't need to have. 1% of your brain worried about your pants or, you know, and then there's a confidence issue that comes, you know, especially if you've gained weight, you know, and you've got, you know, a little bit of a, you know, flood that's hanging over you, you know, and, and you're, you're really in an intense, You know, all of you didn't show up because you've got this constant reminder of something that you're not happy about.
[00:03:58] So in order for us to all show up and be really level the playing field, I start studying fabric and found a fabric that could do all of that for me. Well, the other thing that I wanted to do was that as men, I want us to simplify our wardrobes men wear suits and that's fine, but I still think we could be beautiful.
[00:04:15] So the journey began there. I ended up creating this really cool capsule collection that people continue to ask for more. And that wasn't what I wanted to give. I didn't really want to give more. So that's kind of how I got started. So let's think about COVID-19 hits and you know, my business model is complete.
[00:04:35] Thrown off nobody's going into the office, nobody's going to work. But what I've always wanted to do is create a line of clothing that, was modular and sustainable, and you would only need those clothing. And when I set out to be, to do it, to begin with, I realized that accessories were a big issue for women.
[00:04:55] So I figure, well, what could I do to make that happen? So that's kind of how my mission started. 
[00:05:03] Blake: That's incredible. And Pam, I just want to say too, I want to be beautiful too. You know, just, I know that. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, but no, I think that's incredible that you, saw that there is this gap, for a lot of women that are out there where maybe people aren't being allowed to bring all of themselves into a professional environment.
[00:05:28] You know, with all these overhanging different ideas of what they should look like or what they're feeling was that kind of a part of, you know, the journey was that discovery of was, was professionalism a big 
[00:05:39] Pamela: part of it? Well, it wasn't a big part of it, but it was part of the journey and it was part of the journey that I was on.
[00:05:45] I, you know, I think everything that we deal with comes from within and you know, it was like, I just don't, I met this point in life where I don't want to want to look beautiful. I want to feel beautiful, but I don't want to worry about, you know, whether or not something fits whether or not, you know, it works well.
[00:06:02] And I just believe that there's a place that we can live. And I also had an issue with inequality. And try cleaning. I know, imagine that, you know, well, I go to the dry cleaners and, you know, for the same blazer that you would pay, oh, 10, 12 bucks for I'll pay 25 for it. So that was the other thing that was the other part of things.
[00:06:22] Like what can we do? Can we get it, can we make it washable? Can we make it workable? So the concept was, that I came in with a different idea of how I wanted it to do things. And I think that journey led me to the mission of really being able to do things differently. And I, and I was thinking more holistically, not just do things differently in the area of how I made clothing, but if I'm making clothing, what is my accountability?
[00:06:52] And part of that accountability became better forever. And so, as I said, more of it wasn't a set-out. It was a matter of every day, you know, having, I believe in writing down your. But I don't think your visions become your visions until you walk them out. And I don't think you can really know what your mission is until you start walking.
[00:07:13] Yeah. I think there's a part of that. You should always be goal-focused, be goal-oriented, but I also believe that there has to be flexibility. 
[00:07:22] Blake: Absolutely. Yeah. I think flexibility is so key because you know, something, a quote that I read recently was that in any kind of, you know, in this context, it was used in a career path, but nothing's linear and it's really a bunny trail where you maybe find something along the way and, you know, hunted down and explore and, and, and open up new possibilities.
[00:07:44] With that, I will be curious though, it seems like. Been really adaptable, even down to your, you know, the clothing that you've made. What was your background like growing up and, you know, did you have that kind of mindset at a very young age? 
[00:07:58] Pamela: Well, you know, I, you know, it's interesting. So I did, I've always had to, so my mother had me when she was really young.
[00:08:06] She had 12 brothers and sisters. Wow. So I ended up being the 14th child. So I lived in a place of adaptability, you know, my parents, you know, where the parents you know, they, they got married, you know, but we still live at grandma's house. So I've always been very adaptable, but I have this little thing and I don't, I don't want to, I want to be careful how I say it.
[00:08:26] I think when you grow up brown in any country, there is a bit of adaptability that you have to have, particularly if you're in, if you're a minority, you have to adapt constantly. So I think it's just something that's more DM. Related. It is just, you know, I am personally adaptable. I just think that DNA, DNA level, there's a lot of adaptabilities and you know, that that's, that's just in my bones.
[00:08:54] Blake: Yeah, no, that makes a lot of yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And that's very well said too. I yeah, I can imagine that, you know, with growing up the, you know, growing up as a man, as a midnight minority can't even talk you know, it, it comes with its own new set of challenges and biases and you know, I, I would imagine that that would be extremely formative as well.
[00:09:18] But you know, I'd also be curious to hear what was, yeah. What, what were you exploring as a kid whenever you were trying to figure out, you know, this journey for yourself because you're doing something that not a lot of. 
[00:09:31] Pamela: Right, right. Well well, besides the lighting matches up under the bed, just to get light you want to know what else that was doing.
[00:09:40] Blake: I've never been there before, 
[00:09:43] Pamela: right? Yeah. Well, you know, I've, I've always liked fashion. I had a grandmother who would do so quite a bit, so I was always at her feet and I learned to, so while she was sewing things for me and for my cousins, I would sew things for dolls. So that was kind of the beginning of it.
[00:10:02] But it got crazier as, as life went on. So my mother would have these really nice outfits. We moved to Atlanta when I was around four or five and she'd have these beautiful silk outfits. And I didn't know that it wasn't okay to cut them and to make pants out of the big flowy skirts. So I never got in trouble for that.
[00:10:20] I don't know why, but I never did. And then the other thing that I did, and I think this. Probably has to do more with the type of things that I've made. You have remembered. Neiman Marcus has been there forever and their dressing room was my playground growing up. So there are two places you could always get to.
[00:10:38] It's a high museum and Neiman Marcus. So you could do that because we, you know, I went to school in Buckhead and you'd take the 23 art center station and you could go by both of them, you could do both of them. So I spent a lot of time in museums a lot of time. And you can tell I was alone a lot, right.
[00:10:56] A lot of time at the library, a lot of time in the dressing room. So I think a combination of that, because I mean, really design is art. Right? Right. And so I think because I have that, that bit and that leaning, that I was able to just have a mindset, you know, I think scarcity being, you know, being the 14th child of 13, you know, but the view of art.
[00:11:23] This Is where you really create beauty. It's just something about, you know, like basketball, you love him because he couldn't afford certain things. So he actually mixed medium at a time when people weren't really doing a lot of really great stuff, you know, he was a rebel. I mean, he did art, you know, graffiti.
[00:11:41] So I think that's kind of where I got the leaning to move in that direction. And I've always kinda, I think all artists are prophetic in a sense. I think accountants are prophetic. I think artists are prophetic because you've gotta be able to see the future in a way that's a great way to put it.
[00:11:58] Yeah. So I think I was able to see the future. Like this is where life is moving. This is where life is going and I want to be a part of that. And I just, I've always wanted to be a part of that. And I've always kind of had that leaning as well. 
[00:12:13] Blake: Yeah. You know, it's something I always see and entrepreneurs or artists is this ability to hold on to this almost childlike curiosity.
[00:12:22] And just be, you don't even, there is, there is a prophetic nature to it, but I also think that it's, I always find it really fascinating that a lot of people it's, it's almost like being perpetually I wouldn't say dissatisfied, but perpetually I think curious is the best way to the best way to put it because you're always looking for whatever the next thing is out there.
[00:12:43] And that carries so many people so 
[00:12:44] Pamela: many people before. Yeah. A little pissed you're right. Because you gotta be a little pissed about the way things are, you know, so there's some stubbornness, Anthem, dog, you know, you know, and I, and I, I approached a couple of people to try and do this some years ago when I was at the, remember, I told you I was at the goat farm, it's an artist's commune.
[00:13:02] So I approached a couple of people to try and make this happen because that's the perfect environment to make that grow. And I just couldn't get it moving, you know? So you know, COVID. Push me back in a position where it was like, you know, I can really explore my what ifs now. Yeah, 
[00:13:20] Blake: absolutely. It kind of opened everything, everything up, you know, in a sense after, after kind of it gave everybody a lot of time to really reevaluate what they wanted to do for themselves.
[00:13:31] I think. So w I guess early on what were some of the initial challenges, because yeah, it's a, it's a tough field to break into, you know what were some of your initial challenges getting started on all this? 
[00:13:42] Pamela: Well, you know, the most, the reason why I was at the goat farmer, I'll explain that to you in just a second.
[00:13:48] It's a very close field. There are a lot of languages that are not, it's almost another language as you know, it like it. I wouldn't understand the language of it. So I did a couple of things that were, that was a little interesting back then. So I started by taking classes it was paid classes and you subscribe and you would take them.
[00:14:07] Then I ended up going to Parsons, but, that wasn't enough. I really had to get into the environment where all of this was happening. So I took a leap and decided, you know I need to, you know, go to the goat farm because you know, there's a lot of retail sales that go on there. What does that look like?
[00:14:28] You know, I could do that with a lower risk. So once I figured out how to do that, how to sell, how to, you know, do it, where I felt confident, then I moved to the largest. It's actually the largest retail, well wholesale place in the Southeast, which is America's Mart. Of course. So I'm even getting there.
[00:14:48] It was a matter of just, you know, being willing to work with. Who I necessarily want to work with, you know, because I needed to understand a business because it's very much an underground business in terms of what you know, and what really goes on in the business. And it's a business that's built on relationships as well.
[00:15:07] Yeah. 
[00:15:08] Blake: Yeah, absolutely. How did you start figuring out what skills you needed to gather? Well, 
[00:15:14] Pamela: again, those corny YouTube, this is before it was 
[00:15:18] Blake: amazing, 
[00:15:19] Pamela: but, but not 12 years ago, you know what I mean? Right. So we've evolved. So not 12 years ago, if you tell somebody that you were taking classes on YouTube 12 years ago, you were like, what, what are you doing?
[00:15:30] You know? So until I got my certificate from Parsons, I kind of kept that, you know, 
[00:15:35] Blake: that's where they have the Charlie bit, my finger video, or whatever. No, but that's, that's really, wow. You really sought that out kind of. Or you, you found that pretty early on because now, I mean, now everybody uses the language of like YouTube university and things like that.
[00:15:52] Pamela: And it wasn't a thing. I mean, it was an in and you went on and you had your 12 videos and then I did another class that was like that. And that's, that's kinda how I got started. And that's what I knew to look for. That niche, you know, and here's the thing. And I think some people do it naturally and some people don't anything you want to do.
[00:16:15] You've got to bring your whole soul to it, not your whole self, your whole soul, you know, and I think that's why it's so difficult for me to try and explain. Well, you know, I kind of, because I brought my whole soul, you know, I put it all on the line and I decided that this is going to succeed, and this is what I'm going to do now.
[00:16:34] I'm not crazy. I had a business plan. I had, you know, I had everything that you would, you know, you would need, I'd save the money. You know, I had the skill level to do it, but at the end of the day, I still had to bring my whole soul to the process. 
[00:16:49] Blake: Absolutely. Yeah. If, if you're vacant, you might, you might get rich, but you'll never, you'll never be able to truly be passionate about what you're doing and actually take something to where you're building you know, something a lot bigger than yourself.
[00:17:04] Or at least that's, that's what it seems like anyways, you know, and 
[00:17:07] Pamela: I think the purpose is important too. Like you've got to, you know, there are two things that we live in, in my opinion, we live in purpose and we live in gifts and you know, you and everything, you do, you can, you awkward in your gifts.
[00:17:22] That's kind of a free thing. Like, you're not really good at this. I'm really good at this, but your purpose is, that it always meets where other people are also served. And I believe that that's big. Like I, like, I like janitors at school. People think, okay, she, but you know, they're walking in their purpose because if you get to.
[00:17:46] Ask the cafeteria lady that you've worked with forever to feed these 10 kids because you know, they're having an issue per year. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. It's, 
[00:17:56] Blake: that's a purpose. That's a huge purpose. Right? 
[00:17:59] Pamela: Big that's big. So you leave that job, you feel satisfied, you know, and I just think that you know, those are the, you have to make sure you're walking in either your gift, which is, you know, maybe a little easy for you, maybe fun and your purpose.
[00:18:13] When you make a decision, 
[00:18:14] Blake: how do you return back to your purpose and, you know, reacquaint yourself with that every so often. Do you have a, do you have something that I know everybody kind of has their different ways of doing that? It might be writing it right. Literally, write it down or anything, but I'd be curious what you do.
[00:18:29] Pamela: Well you know, I'm really big into meditation. I love meditation. So that's one of the ways that I recenter myself. And I don't think of my purpose as some big thing at the end of my life. I think of my purpose as this moment right now, this conversation. Is meaningful and I'm here and I'm present and I'm showing up for it.
[00:18:50] And that means that it's purposeful. 
[00:18:52] Blake: I could do a whole podcast about just that right there.
[00:18:58] I don't know. It seems like the secret and a lot of ways is tapping into the present. And you know, finding meditation has been something that's been massively helpful for me and remaining focused and giving myself kind of that mental reset needed to find space, to execute on other, other things that I'd like to execute on.
[00:19:18] Now that's, I think that's really, really key. Have you ever done any of the, not to get too sidetracked, but I'm curious, have you ever done any of the like retreats or anything like that? 
[00:19:27] Pamela: Well I have, but th the retreat that I did was kind of brutal. So I did this retreat where It's called OHI. I can plug them, you know, at the optimum health Institute, there's one in San Diego, the one down in Texas.
[00:19:40] So I went to the Texas one. So what they do, you know, you, you drive up there, you know, because the way up in the mountains, so they take away like all of your good food or your box food, and you're going to eat raw. Wow. Not only are you going to eat raw, but you also gotta learn how to meditate. You got to learn how to chant Grigorian chance.
[00:19:59] Wow. So you're going to do all of these things. So it's really interesting because so the first night you're there, you're like, I don't want this. I don't eat that. That's nice. And around the third day, your whole primal self comes into this existence. So you're sitting there the first day, you're here and you're very polite.
[00:20:20] Second day. You're a little bit more relaxed. The third day, you know, your table, you know what they have and what they don't have. And you find yourself grabbing, oh, I'll take this. You don't like it here. Here's mine. And this is the weirdest thing because, you know, So you get to this primal self and then you go into these spaces that are teaching you how to let go of things, how to meditate, chant, you know, so I have, but I think I picked a pretty brutal 
[00:20:47] Blake: one.
[00:20:48] That sounds pretty intense. I've heard of like the Vipassana retreats where it's like 10 days in silence or you know, sacrificing food and things like that. And that all sounds, you know, I can be a little extreme too, so I'm like, oh, that sounds kind of like a nice challenge to though, to, to really figure out what it means to lean into simplicity and surrender a little bit, you know, surrender some of that, that control that you're always trying to hold on to and yeah.
[00:21:16] Become present-minded now that's I, it's funny. Yeah. I could literally talk about that all day. I'm I am curious about, you know when you started. Tell me about, you know, whenever you started launching Poloma St. James, was that kind of the first official venture and, you know, and you all have been going for a long time now.
[00:21:36] So you did something where you, it sounded like you didn't have to go through multiple reiterations or anything like that. What was, yeah. What was life like around them whenever you were? Okay. 
[00:21:45] Pamela: Well, what you w you know because I had run a successful business in the past. I understood people and I understood what was needed, but I think I leveraged my relationships more than anything else.
[00:21:57] So rather than, you know, trying to the whole bunch of, you know, marketing that wasn't affordable are launched during private school auction time. So most private schools especially in this area, have this auction and this dinner, or, you know, it's, it's a fundraiser event, essentially. So what I did was I leveraged that I gave away.
[00:22:22] Package, which included like a free outfit and, you know, something, I guess I package it somewhere else. So, I have my audience and me immediately. So what happened is they actually would come and for a week they would go through and they would see everything that was had. So that made it a really easy launch.
[00:22:42] And I think the thing that I didn't do, I didn't launch very large. I want it to get deep roots. So I didn't launch large. I didn't make a lot of money, to begin with. I stayed small, you know, and I'm still fairly small, but I stayed small and I grew to me, reputation was more important. Quality was more important.
[00:23:03] And I grew in those areas in a very slow way. And I think that was pivotal to me being able to be, you know, be around. And then I had an opportunity to. I guess that leveraging of relationships. And actually, this wasn't a leveraged relationship, so my husband and I were at the Ritz Carlton one night and we had stayed out way too late and we thought, let's just get a room here.
[00:23:25] So we get a room. So, you know, we, you know, have the clothes on we had yesterday, I think. So it was, you know, a little, little interesting, but it was just so I was in the lounge and it was like, why wouldn't I go downstairs and ask thereby? Or I asked the guy in the lounge higher here and the buyer was there.
[00:23:46] So rather than wait until life was perfect. And you know, my hair was perfect because you know, I've been out, you know, I cleaned myself up as best I could. I went downstairs and I talked to the buyer and she says, what do you have? I said I have dressed like this. And she said, oh, She gave me an appointment and that's all I needed.
[00:24:05] I just needed an appointment rather than trying to recreate that we'll I said, okay. We, you know, I sold there until they closed the facility at Ritz Carlton pocket. But what I did from there, I went, I just followed that. It's like, I've got a good thing going here. So let me move through Ritz Carlton's okay.
[00:24:27] So I've got a good thing going there. Let me pick up shows, you know, during those times. So I think I really that's not how it would have launched. I would have wanted to just go on mine. My perfect launching program wants to go online, go on Facebook. I did a lot at that as well. I go on Facebook and Instagram, and just keep throwing on images and throwing out images until something would stick and paying for advertising.
[00:24:55] But I realized, you know, you know, that always use what's in your hands, what's in your hands. And that was in my hands. So I, you know, I think that did a much better job launching with what was in my hands. 
[00:25:08] Blake: No, that's a that's I think something that everybody should consider. And if we just break that down a little bit, you identified your lowest hanging fruit.
[00:25:17] You identified, you know, these people that you could rely on identified your own strengths and when after it, and, and made roots with a very, you know, nice group of people so that you create raving fans of, you know, what you do and who you are because you always, I feel like you always want to start with people, right?
[00:25:37] Are, you know, they celebrate who you are as a person, right? From the beginning. There's a lot of power in that. I think, 
[00:25:44] Pamela: I think, I think there is too, because to me there, you're there your amplifiers, you know, the other people, you talk more about your brand than you can ever speak about 
[00:25:54] Blake: it. And I think w you know, we were talking the other day and you mentioned something about visiting India for a little bit of time.
[00:26:00] Yeah. I'd love to hear. I don't know. That just got me so excited thinking about that. I was cheesily thinking about eating, pray, and loving, and which has, so I would love to know what was your time like over there? 
[00:26:12] Pamela: Well that was a really interesting time because I really went to look for fabric. That was the main goal I went and I thought, you know, I'll find some beautiful fabric, maybe, you know, I liked my manufacturer in the U S you know, I thought, yeah, I'll find some great fabrics and great silks.
[00:26:28] And we went, we visited friends while we were there and they took us to this village and, you know, I'm thinking, okay, you know, this is, this is nice, you know, beautiful girls, women were interacting. It's amazing. So we get back in the car and, and, you know, remember I've been there three times. So this is the first time I find out that the nice little girl that had the blue jeans and the t-shirt on that was being prepped to go to the deli, to be sold for 5,000 us dollars as a Virgin.
[00:26:59] Oh my God. That. Took me. I thought, okay, let's come back tomorrow. You know, because I need to know more about this story. So we go back tomorrow. I would go back, well, the next day, sorry. So we go back the next day and we enter this, you know, the same place that we were last time. So to the left, there's a whole bunch of sewing machines that haven't been used, you know, but they're really good machines.
[00:27:28] They're like jokey, you know, some over there they get, oh, you got Juki machines. And like eight of them, well, someone from Korea had donated those machines, but nobody was able to teach their girls to so yet, so we, you know, we'd get there and we have an interpreter and they start telling stories. So this place was already set up.
[00:27:49] They would come in and they would just take strips of fabric and tie them into bracelets and sell or do whatever they could do. Because the other part of the day they would be sexual. So that was kind of the beginning of, you know, that the whole India trip. I know it sounds it's intense. Yes. It was very intense.
[00:28:10] And what was more intense was to learn that it was being done by their fathers and brothers. They were essential, they were the pimps, you know? And so that was the first visit. So when I got home, there was a fire under me to go ahead and get Paloma Saint James up and running because I had something to fund at that point.
[00:28:30] Yeah. So second visit, you know, it's more of a, what can we do for the ladies? So by the time we got there, you know, I, I, of course, I'm still working Poloma St. James, so I'm so getting business done. So I go and I get my business done and realize that, okay, there is no business for you guys to do because there's no skill.
[00:28:52] Yeah. So besides donating money, which we do, you know, and we, we started doing, we continue to do what can, what skill level can you, can we leverage because dignity is everything, you know, I mean, it, you know, there's something about a loss of dignity that is, you know, bigger than, than even poverty. And these women were just, they didn't have any dignity.
[00:29:19] Right. And they didn't just need money. They needed skill. So that generations could continue in a different manner. So we went ahead and got the, someone to do the sewing, what, teach them how to do the selling and pattern-making, and that was visit. Visit three was so different because when you have something in your hands and you work with it, it was a different group of women.
[00:29:43] That first group of women were very, you know, you know, just almost on edge by the third visit, hope had been restored. Wow. So 
[00:29:53] Blake: that was what was this timeline like through that whole 
[00:29:57] Pamela: experience? Okay. So the first visit, the second visit was two months because I couldn't sit on it after I saw it. It's like, what am I going to do?
[00:30:06] You know? And I, and it's not a lot, but what, what can I do? So that was two months. And then between the second and third visit, wasn't an entire year. Oh 
[00:30:16] Blake: my gosh. So, so you're telling me in just a little over a year, you were able to empower these women to be able to, you know, have a job and restore dignity.
[00:30:27] And, you know, I mean, that, that is the generational outcome. 
[00:30:32] Pamela: And that's what I think of it. It's like, that's a legacy outcome. Now let me be clear. You know, there are partners on the ground in India who are smarter than me. They're better than me, but you know, I'm able to be a part of it here. 
[00:30:45] Blake: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, talking about like purpose and everything.
[00:30:50] I, it's just kind of interesting how things unfold. I mean, you were just going to shop for fabric, and then this whole other world became revealed to you. And I don't know. I think that those are the moments where you have to be brave and make a decision of, am I gonna, am I going to do something about this 
[00:31:12] Pamela: and why does, why do I do what I do say in India, I met my purpose.
[00:31:18] You know, I met the purpose for Paloma Saint James, because, you know it's really interesting. What are the issues that I had is that I've always been smart and I want it to continue to be smart. Right? Fashion is not something that we look at as being smart. You know, it's shallow, it's, it's pretty, it's, it's, it's all these adjectives that are just not positive.
[00:31:39] And I struggled honestly with, with, with feeling, knowing that this is something that I love to do, but, you know, do I really want to unveil and reveal the side of me? And it was just really interesting because through that struggle and, and going to India, and, and once I decided that, you know what, this is what I'm called to do.
[00:32:01] I know what this is, what I've always wanted to do. Like going to India. It gave me the purpose behind what I do, 
[00:32:10] Blake: you know? Yeah, absolutely. Wow. That's pretty powerful. I would imagine I, I, yeah, I, I, anybody that hears that I think that's when you dream of what you want to achieve with whatever your venture is.
[00:32:22] I would imagine that that's something that a lot of people are like, I just don't know, you know, how to start or where to where to begin. And I think that's a perfect example of how, you know, trusting yourself and, and what your strengths are. Can sometimes just guide you naturally towards something like that.
[00:32:40] And then being ready to say yes, when it's really time to say yes, 
[00:32:44] Pamela: it's putting one foot in front of the other always. And that's the thing about entrepreneurial spirit is the ability, like even the pivot for all of us, for COVID, you know, it's the ability to, you know, what, let me put one foot in front of the other and, you know, and, and intentionally not just.
[00:33:04] But, but intentionally with the plan and eventually you'll step on that step, 
[00:33:11] Blake: you know? Absolutely. So Paloma Saint James, you obviously were, you know, making a huge impact and I'm just curious, how did COVID. Change things for you. Oh, how did 
[00:33:27] Pamela: that? 
[00:33:30] Blake: I think we should call it Mr. COVID. Cause there's no way.
[00:33:33] There's no way COVID is, is a female. I think it's only a man who would cause this kind of trouble. I think 
[00:33:40] Pamela: so. Well, well let me say something good about Mr. COVID. So I was in Milan when everything started, when, when, when everything blew off, I was in the
[00:33:54] I was there and I want there right before things got really crazy. Didn't know they were going to get crazy by the time I got back, things were crazy, but on the way that. I had I, you know, I couldn't find a little cute mass, but I knew people in China when wearing a mask. And because I do have friends internationally had a friend that was like, Hey, wear a mask.
[00:34:14] You know, like a hint, hint. So couldn't find a regular mass. I ended up like a home Depot, big gas mask. I'll have to show you a picture of that. It's hilarious. So I have this bearing for times preparing for times I'm at padding. I take a picture of myself in Paddington station. Cause I went through London because it's cheaper to go that way.
[00:34:34] So, and I, and it's timestamped. So I'll show you the timestamp. I think it's like February 17th on it. So 
[00:34:40] Blake: weeks before it really popped 
[00:34:42] Pamela: off weeks before it really popped off. So let's just leave that there let's go to what you were asking me. So when I got back I still needed to make one more show, even though it was crazy.
[00:34:52] I had a big show that was I'm at Amelia island that I committed to. Brought back all this merchandise from Milan to, to, to sell. So I went ahead and went to that show and I had tons of shows lined up. This is going to be like the best year I had this hybrid business model that was working beautifully.
[00:35:15] This was going to be the year I was so excited. So of course the country shuts down. So at this point, remember my business model is hotels during large events. So there we go. 
[00:35:31] Blake: That's what I'm thinking, you know, I'm like, I'm like, how did, yeah. What did you do to adjust to that? 
[00:35:37] Pamela: So I you know, was of course in disbelief and But I'll go back to that gas mask because I knew what was coming.
[00:35:47] I had, no, not that I knew. I follow what someone had told me. And I also followed the signs. There is, is a weird wild lion, like the confidence that I had because I'm like, I knew this was coming, so I'm not going to be scared and I'm not stopping. So I really took that time to plan what's next, you know? And like I said, I meditate.
[00:36:14] So I spent a lot of time meditating, you know, like, what's next, what's next? And I was thinking, what's next for Poloma St. James. So I just, you know, I'd moved my studio into my home. So I was upstairs in my office and I'd had a little I, ha my life has such a story, but an airline had come to me and they'd asked me to to make uniforms.
[00:36:37] Blake: So I hope that sounds really cool. That sounds like a really exciting 
[00:36:40] Pamela: opportunity. It was an opportunity, but you know, the airline ended up as a regional airline ended up closing down, but I ended up spending a lot of money on that project. Oh gosh. So I just put it aside. Didn't worry about it. Yeah. But I start looking at that project again and it made me think, so COVID made me think, what is.
[00:36:57] So what if I could really do this? Because my whole point with the airline was I'd already want it to do a project like this. So they just gave me an opportunity to jump on it. So it was like I said, half undone because the lady called me and said, you know, we're, it's a no-go so don't keep, don't keep moving forward.
[00:37:15] So I had this project where I had things zipped out, but now, because my thoughts at that time culminating with what I had, what I wanted to do at the goat farm with that, this is my opportunity. You fly from California to New York. You can take your sleeves off, you can put them on, you know, so I already had that in motion, but as I said, when that project died, I just threw it aside.
[00:37:41] So it gave me an opportunity to, you know, as I said, I meditated a lot and then, you know, I start thinking, okay, what's next? You know what, what's next? And I figured, you know, I'm not going to any hotel anytime soon, for sure. So what is the next move? So I just, you know, sat down and I wrote out, you know, a plan like this is, this is what I want for the company.
[00:38:05] I prayed about it. And I just started with this sheath dress and I start cutting up stuff and, you know, ended up with this big pal of stuff in my office from being cut up and put back together. And I started there and, you know, and just continue. And I figured, okay, I can do this with the sheet dresses as possible.
[00:38:27] So I went for a jacket or a blazer. I figured, okay, I can do this. And then I thought, you know, let me try something more challenging because we had a lot of downtime for COVID, you know? Absolutely. And then I, you know, start working on it that reversible wedding gown. And that was, I thought, okay, 
[00:38:46] Blake: That's so cool.
[00:38:48] And then, so you started seeing like, oh my gosh, I can really create something that's versatile and it had some time to experiment and you know what I love about you're saying everything that you've said is it seems like you're always looking around the corner. I don't know. You're always like, you're always like, okay, let me see.
[00:39:09] What's what's poking around the corner to see what might possibly happen next. Right. And that's such a great quality. I think that a lot of leaders have is that they're able to. Figure out, Hey you know, I have to prepare for every possible scenario. 
[00:39:25] Pamela: Well, I think that too, but also I think there's a part of us that keeps going until we find that purpose.
[00:39:32] You know what I'm saying? So by nature, I'll continue to look around the corner, but, but, but I know without a shadow of a doubt that this is it, this, this is my journey. This is a culmination of, of what I have been working on. And just, just really talking about the journey in this manner. Let. Unfold, you know, even that the disappointing parts of COVID the disappointing parts of, you know, putting all this money into this little tiny airline, and they could only order like 70, but you know, I get to play around with something that, you know.
[00:40:10] Yeah. So I, you know, and I think you keep going and, and I, that's the thing about entrepreneurship, you know, things like COVID can happen. You're going to open a company and then you've got to pivot. And I think people continue to do things until they find their purpose. I think we all are whether or not we talk about it, we're all looking for that purpose.
[00:40:32] Blake: Absolutely. So how did the, did the purpose change a little bit since 
[00:40:37] Pamela: COVID, you know, no, it didn't because remember I've told you earlier. I always knew that I wanted to do something more because remember, once I diploma St. James, that was great. People still want more. Absolutely. You know, and I tried to satisfy that by going outside the country and picking up really cute cool things.
[00:40:55] And Matthew belonged with St. James to give them that more. But that wasn't where I want it to land. I knew, I knew that I knew COVID was an opportunity to, gosh, I, you know, honestly, I'm trying to put it in a way that doesn't sound nice and happy, but it gave me the opportunity to, really, really take some time to sit down and hone my purpose.
[00:41:24] I always knew I would not just make and sell clothes that were never. That was never the end goal for me. I always knew that there was going to be a greater purpose, you know, which you know, which is it's. And that's great because it's more than one purpose. You know, I get to be a part of a legacy for a whole group of women, you know, I mean that, that changes, not just them, but that changes their children, their grandchildren, or great-grandchildren.
[00:41:51] And I get to create something really beautiful and I feel like solving a problem. I feel like I really have found something that solved the problem up, buying clothes over and over again that we, you know, absolutely. 
[00:42:04] Blake: Absolutely. How many ways did you say that you can wear it? Yeah, 
[00:42:07] Pamela: the five sheath dress and this is a different number of times for each piece, but 
[00:42:12] Blake: that is so cool.
[00:42:13] And I feel like it's so there's, there's this position of it being. Equitable for everybody in a sense that everybody can, you know, it's very accessible and, and adaptable and, and all of that. So something I was thinking about not to pivot, but a hundred million people, a hundred million people being dedicated to, you know, only buying 20 garments of clothing a year.
[00:42:40] Tell me a little bit about how you got to, to that, that movement that you're trying to do and the number, and tell me all about it. 
[00:42:49] Pamela: You know, I look at it like this. Walmart is asking how many people buy a bar of soap, right. You know, for them to get the soap with the price that they get it. And to be able to mark it down to two bucks or a dollar a quarter, they've got to get that many of them.
[00:43:06] Why can't that many of us go and tell them what we want. So, I mean, if we're going to disrupt and turn things, you know, I think we should reform and not necessarily, I think it's a disruption, but I don't believe we have to have a revolution. I think we have to have a re-formation where it's a true democracy.
[00:43:27] We tell you what we would like. And we would like for you to stop producing things that kill our atmosphere and that kill our children. And I just think that's the only way to do it. And I think we've lost the power. It's, it's funny because as much as we can post online, we've lost the power of individuality we've lost.
[00:43:49] We don't know how valuable we are because we're looking at these images that we consider more valuable than we are. So we don't understand that individually, a hundred million of us. It was a hundred million of us together. Do you know what I mean? I 
[00:44:07] Blake: definitely do. I definitely do. And I think that's so incredible to think about the end result of what that would mean for the world.
[00:44:16] Pamela: Yeah. Yes, yes. And you know, is it, Albert Einstein to say, you know people were crazy enough to think they can change things. Usually, do. I think, I really do believe that this is possible. So everybody listening 
[00:44:32] Blake: right now sign up right now, right 
[00:44:35] Pamela: now by better forever.com. 
[00:44:38] Blake: That is so, so exciting. And, you know, I really love the idea of, I think.
[00:44:46] Minimalism in general to it seems like there's a lot of minimalism going on and you know, that's something that can make people's lives a little bit, a little bit easier too, on a personal level, you know? Well, 
[00:44:59] Pamela: it's stopped really minimalism. And the reason why I say that is because fashion is a maximalist involvement.
[00:45:07] Yeah. It really is. And you know, when people think sustainable and things that work, they always think things are brown and sad and you know, and I, I really want to bring, you know, I want to bring fun and sexy to sustainability. I think we really can. So the reason why I say it's not minimalist is because every core piece of clothing that you have, like that t-shirt, you're wearing now, right?
[00:45:30] You got arms, you got one, you only have one neck, you only have one torso. So everything is built around a base. You know, form anyway. Right? So why can't we just have a sheath dress where you put the arms on, you put an overlay over it. So it's really changing the way we consume fashion. And it's also changing the way where manufacturers will manufacture.
[00:45:53] So rather than because what they're doing is let's just say, if you've got eight dresses, sheath, dresses in your closet, let me just stick to that right now. Then you've got eight of the same body forms with different overlays on top of them is all you have. So you really have essentially the same dress, eight different iterations of it.
[00:46:12] Blake: I love the way that something that I, you know, I've just been chewing on too, is I just love the way that this message will empower people to realize that one person can make a difference. I know it sounds maybe a little cheesy, but it's true. The collective body is, is so essential and it starts with just one person and it seems like you've recognized.
[00:46:36] That's something that, you know, if you have the confidence to do it yourself, then you can actually make things happen. No, I think that's a that's that's so incredibly, incredibly cool. So what are you wanting to, where are you at right now with everything, and where are you what's kind of your timeline looking like for making that happen?
[00:46:54] Or do you envision a certain timeline 
[00:46:56] Pamela: for that? You mean for, by better forever came out, you know I haven't got a timeline on it, you know, because we live in a capitalist society, let's go past a hundred million. Right. And then how we're living, because this is what the thing is that, you know, as crazy as it is, this is what companies are asking.
[00:47:15] They're asking millions of us to get on a plane. They're asking millions of us to buy soap. There have to be billions of us to buy rice there. They're asked if they depend on us individually. Right? So there, they're always, they believe in us, but we have to believe in ourselves. Cause they believe in us, they believe that we're going to walk out of here and we're going to get gas or an electric car because they already made it for us to buy, you know, they believe that I'm going to go and get me some sushi today.
[00:47:43] And they already got off the plane from Japan because I know that I'm coming to buy it. So that's the thing. They, believe in us more than we believe in ourselves. Do you know what I mean? Like I believe in a hundred million of us, you know, because they absolutely, yeah. So I don't have a timeline on that because I figured that we live in a capitalist society.
[00:48:08] Why not go past a hundred million, you know? And I think. What's really going to help is that this is coming at a time. We are, you know, climate changes, you know, most people are understanding that that's real. You've got to remember SDG goals are going to be implemented in the law. So things are going to have to change, but if we can, so what's happening now is as, as people start checking for SDG rules and laws, you've got these governing bodies that want to tell us what to do, but the truth is that with campaigns like this, we get to tell them what to do.
[00:48:47] Blake: Yeah. It puts the power back in, back in our hands. It shifts things. 
[00:48:51] Pamela: It really does. It really, really does. 
[00:48:54] Blake: No, that's a that's and I, I, for me, I, it's funny. I laugh because I'm like, that's just the kind of stuff that I dream about, you know? That's the kind of stuff where I'm like, oh my gosh, you've seen it on different scales with.
[00:49:06] Even something is, you know, people kind of trivial trivialized it a little bit, but the game stops buying all the stock. And then all of a sudden people having to shut down the stock, you know, the stock market, just because of that. And it just indicates that change can happen. And that kind of way when people collectively work 
[00:49:27] Pamela: together.
[00:49:28] Yes. Yes. And that's what I look forward to. I really do. I like it, I look forward to us understanding that we have the power, you know, that we hold the power. And like I said, again, I'm in the, and I know this is a redundant statement, but they believe that. Yeah, absolutely. They believe in us so much they bottled water.
[00:49:50] Blake: Yeah. They're like, yeah, absolutely. They're like, no, we know how reliable you are. 
[00:49:58] Pamela: And, and to, to go back to what you're saying so that that's the timeline for that for the eternal wardrobe? That'll be out by, in, by year's end. We'll have all that. We'll have the eight-core pieces and the four resort pieces that are available, you know, at that point.
[00:50:13] And I'm just excited. I'm excited about the future. And honestly, the most exciting thing is that I know that through the journey I'm really like at the center of my purpose. Do you know what I mean? 
[00:50:31] Blake: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I feel like whenever you're in the center of your purpose, it almost feels.
[00:50:37] You have seemingly infinite energy to go towards what you actually want. Take care of yourself, you know, but, but it is, it is really interesting how it can just propel you forward through everything. So with a lot of what you've been working on, it seems kinda movement oriented. I know we've been using that word.
[00:50:57] What would be your, so what's, what's your approach, I guess, to starting a movement, 
[00:51:04] Pamela: you know, I think you gotta be mad enough about something, you know, I, you know, I think people say, yo, what came out of, I think you've just got to get pissed off and tired of how things are being done, you know? And I think it takes that energy to just say, you know what, I'm not doing this anymore.
[00:51:24] We're not doing this like this anymore. And you know, for me, it's just about really just understanding that it's not right. I mean, there are some things that just are not right. You think about, let's just say, if you get a greenwashing really, really pissed me off because you're selling a $5 sustainable t-shirt, but does it sustain the life that made the t-shirt how 
[00:51:54] Blake: that's a really, yeah, that's an extremely valid point, you know because so many of these things are marketed.
[00:52:00] I mean, even with, you know, organic products that, that, that it almost has a more they're playing on the conscience of people, of making sure that people feel like they are buying correctly and, you know, it's, but if you go far enough down the line, you realize, yeah. How are you? Are you, how are you treating the workers that are at the beginning of all of this?
[00:52:23] And, yeah, 
[00:52:24] Pamela: exactly. And here's the thing I think we're smarter than this, you know, I think we care more than. And what I don't like about greenwashing, things like that. It's deceitful. So you're not giving me the opportunity to make a good choice. You know, I don't even have that. If I'm walking in certain stores, I don't get the opportunity to make a good choice about the worker.
[00:52:49] I don't get the opportunity to make a good choice about the fabric. You know, I don't get to make a good choice about the environment. And I think that those are choices that we really should be given the opportunity to make for ourselves, you know, and I, you know, and I think about like with India, you know, I know what it looks like when people aren't given a good opportunity to make choices for themselves and it's not pretty, you know, and I just feel like let's, let's be we're, we are smarter than this, where we're smart, they're being deceitful, you know?
[00:53:24] And I think, you know, if we slow down enough and. Look at what we're really buying, then it won't, you know, it just will disrupt the manufacturing at a hundred million. Us will disrupt the way they manufacture. They'll think about it 
[00:53:44] Blake: because what was the average that people are buying now 
[00:53:47] Pamela: I'm 67 items per year.
[00:53:49] Wow. Yeah. That's 
[00:53:51] Blake: about average. Wow. That's a, and you know, I can't even imagine what kind of impact that would have, especially whenever you know that you know, majority of people are probably buying from your handful of major brands to 
[00:54:04] Pamela: right. Right. And, you know, here's the thing, what I tell people, you know, you know, you want to buy better for ed ever, and you also want to buy better, but buy the best that you can afford.
[00:54:15] You know, you don't have to go out and buy sustainable, but just buy the best that you can afford. Do you know? So whatever, you know, if those are those major brands you want to purchase them, Purchase there, you know if that's what you want to do, but because you purchase fewer items, they'll have to listen.
[00:54:34] Blake: Tell me a little bit more about the less is more mindset. 
[00:54:38] Pamela: So last year I did, before I asked anyone to do this, I did my own experiment. Right. So when you buy your items, you buy better items naturally, because you're really thinking, you know, that's the thing when you're buying 67 items, you're, you're picking ups.
[00:54:54] I've, I've done it before. You're picking up things. Oh, that's cute. All that, but that'll work. And then you get it home. You wear it twice and you throw it away. When you have 20 items that, you know, max that you're going to buy for the year, then you think about each item and you naturally buy better because you're thinking, you know, like I want to go to I want to go shopping in New York with a group of women in October.
[00:55:18] Well, I'm on two items now bought two for the year and it's. So I, you know what I mean? I'm not, you know like I said, I'm not saying don't shop, you know, but, so I think about that, but what happened last year is that because I, I, you know, have a budget that I set, I saved so much money that we want to wait for, to Italy for Christmas.
[00:55:40] And I was able to get something that I wouldn't have normally bought for myself because I was buying, you know, buying better. And I was watching what else doing? You know? And I think there is a place where, you know, there's a whole movement of don't buy anything. There's a whole movement of only buy sustainable, but I think people can make the choices for themselves.
[00:55:59] And there's no middle ground and I'm hoping that this will be our middle ground. 
[00:56:05] Blake: Absolutely. Now that makes a that's that's something that I think I picked up on a little bit when I was visiting France, because I was. How are all these people wearing this, these beautiful clothes everywhere. And, well, I was in Paris, so I don't know, I haven't visited all of France or anything like that, but that was one thing I picked up on it.
[00:56:23] Have you noticed that, you know, with traveling a lot, that that's a mindset in other 
[00:56:26] Pamela: countries? Yes. Because when you buy a shirt, it belongs to you. So the first thing you do is you take it to alterations. So you don't buy a shirt that is just off the rack, because you're going to keep it, you're going to love it.
[00:56:37] It's going to be a part of your close family. So you take it to your tailor and it fits you perfectly. It doesn't matter if you're, you know, an old man or the gut, it fits perfectly because you are loving that garment that you have, you know, and you can tell it wears differently on the person. I mean, you think about, you know, Paris and, and most of the parts of France that I've been to people dress the same way.
[00:57:02] There's dressing pack ugly. 
[00:57:04] Blake: yeah. It's, it's a, it is really interesting. That was a mindset that. Or something that I noticed about the culture that I thought was really interesting. So what is a typical day look like for you? Because you do a lot of different things. I'd be curious. 
[00:57:19] Pamela: It's quite unconventional.
[00:57:21] So I start my day at about 4:00 AM because I have a team out of India. And so my most of what my, my design is system, my partner, she lives in Mumbai. She actually went to SCAD, so she entered. Wow. Yeah. So she interned for me when she went to SCAD. My branding manager went to SCAD as well. And she works in New Jersey, but she's a Mumbai, so it starts at about 4:00 AM.
[00:57:46] So we come into the meeting and I have several different meetings. So I have my kind of PR marketing team. So I meet with them for about two hours, you know, what are we going to, you know, do for the four, you know, social media, what are we, you know, doing for our website. Clearly working on both websites by better forever, but we still have to continually update, you know, information that's coming in, you know, what, what what's the latest fashion that's coming through.
[00:58:14] So we do all of that. And then after those two hours, I'll go in with manufacturing. So at that point, I'm dealing with my manufacturers through WhatsApp I'm dealing with any changes that need to be made because the biggest thing is that nobody has done this, so nobody has done this. Even my, you know, manufacturers and my, my tailors, you know, we're having to just kind of, you know, there's a learning curve, so we're all learning together.
[00:58:41] So I spent about two hours there and then about an hour and a half, you know, I'll, I'll really just kind of figure out, you know, what does the business look like for me? You know, what's my sales channels, you know what I, you know, what do I plan to do you know about that? Lately, I've been trying to go on social media because I'm really, I'm not really good at it, not really into it.
[00:59:04] So I'll try and spend about 30 minutes on social media, you know, go down, have lunch. And I'll really try. And I start my day at about six hours, you know, and the rest of it, you know, I'll so that's in my office, but the rest of the day, I'll just kind of organically work. You know, I have a pad downstairs that if something comes up, you know, I've got WhatsApp.
[00:59:25] So if I've got to do anything, but I'll kind of organically work, but my team is kind of a. You know at about, let's just say two o'clock, so I'm not going to do any work for them, but I do prepare for the next day. It's like before I go on with my team I want to know you know, what we're gonna do?
[00:59:43] What are our goals? I spend one day a week. I didn't this week because it's a holiday, but I spend one hour per week, with each team member because I'm, my personality is more direct. Like, what are we doing? You know, I say, good morning, but past that as well. So because I, that personality type one hour per week, we get lunch and I spend with a team member on WhatsApp, not WhatsApp on zoom.
[01:00:11] And we talk about what's going on in your life. You got a girlfriend. So, so we, we, and then, you know, we kinda, you know, touch base through the weeks, you know, whatever we've talked about. So I try and make sure I do that because my work style and my personality are so direct and, and especially in work and just be so centered that I make sure I remember the individual, 
[01:00:33] Blake: you know?
[01:00:34] Absolutely. No. And I'll, I'll a few things there. One of them is that it's, it seems like you're really good at identifying what your strengths are and leaning into those. What would be your advice for somebody that's trying to maybe uncover that. And w because it's so essential, I feel like to figure that out, 
[01:00:52] Pamela: it is.
[01:00:54] You know, I, I think you almost have to bump your head on that one, you know, because, you know, as a small business, you know, the first thing we think about is saving money. So when we're saving money, you know, we're not saving time. And sometimes you've got to do it. Like I had to do my first website, you know, I just didn't have $5,000 laying around for somebody else to do it.
[01:01:15] So you know, and, but what, what I, and I think it's important to bump your head because you always need to know what's going on in your business. You need to be able to an elementary level, handle everything in your business until you get past, like, what is it, 15 people, you know, then you've just got to have those trusted people, you know, but you do need to have your hands everywhere, you know, and I've seen it done both ways.
[01:01:41] I mean, you know, if some, somebody couldn't get something done in our team, I have an elementary enough knowledge to actually get it. 
[01:01:50] Blake: Yeah, that makes sense. That seems like a theme though, is you've you've always kept your finger on the pulse of things really well. You've tapped into channels that people weren't using.
[01:01:59] I think of YouTube, like you were talking about earlier. Yeah. W what's driven that mindset to just always kind of know what's out there and get ahead of it. 
[01:02:08] Pamela: Well, you know what I, I think honestly, because I grew up disadvantage know, I think I've always the thing is that when you grow up disadvantage, but you're you're I grew up, I have a really interesting background.
[01:02:19] So the black girl from the south, my mother was young when she had me, but she was up high. So a lot of international, a lot of middle Easterners a lot of converted you know, people from other, other religions, so very international, black, white, middle Eastern. So I think that has something to do with how I think.
[01:02:39] But I, but, but I think growing up disadvantage and always going to a really, really amazing educational system, I've always had to adapt and I've always had to keep up and I've always had, I always felt like I had to be on the cutting edge. You know what I mean? Like, you know, I've got it really. So, so my, my, my stamina is, you know, it's gonna take me an hour and a half to get to school.
[01:03:02] So I got to get up before you get up. You know what I'm saying? I don't have, you know, the encyclopedia Britannica at home. I've got to go to the library first, you know, and, and I, and I can't buy that book, so I need to get the library before you get there and check it out. So I, I think just my, I never thought about that.
[01:03:23] That's a really good question. That's a really good question, but I answered, like I do most things I answered from my heart and I think that's why I've just always had to have that. And so now it's so natural, you know what I mean? Like I'm not trying to think. And I do do vision boards. I do, you know have, you know, one year, two year, three or four years, five year plans, but I think I'm always ready with a plan B by nature.
[01:03:50] Blake: Yeah. Yeah. So taking that as something that somebody else could apply to their lives, I think it comes back to you're like, Hey, There's no excuses, you know, there's excuses, but I guess my point is just like you said, about going to, you know, you're like, Hey, I, if I can't buy the book, I'm going to be the first one to get to the book and the library, you know?
[01:04:12] And and, and figuring out an avenue to make something happen for yourself and almost having an abundance mindset of thinking, Hey, it's out there and I'm gonna find a way to 
[01:04:23] Pamela: get to it. Right. And as I think, as an entrepreneur, you have to remember something, people are going to be smarter than you.
[01:04:28] They're going to have more money than you. They're going to be better looking than you. They're going to have more resources than you, but don't let them outwork you. 
[01:04:37] Blake: Absolutely. Do you know? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So what would you tell somebody that is starting to go down the same path that you are? Is there anything that you would say to a version of yourself?
[01:04:48] You know when you're just starting this journey? Well, you 
[01:04:51] Pamela: know I think that all journeys are spiritual. Even your work journey, you know, I think they're all spiritual. So I think whatever, you know, I, you know, I'm, I'm personally a Christian, but I think whatever you believe in that, if you decide to take a journey, you need to lean into that first, because I tend to have a lot of friends, have friends who are behind friends, trendsetter, you know, Buddhists.
[01:05:15] I have friends who are, you know, but that people who lean into their faith in my little world have just always done very well because they have a, they have a compass, they know where they're going. 
[01:05:31] Blake: Yeah. I think that that makes a lot of sense because if you're trusting the whole world on your own shoulders, That can be a pretty big burden at times.
[01:05:41] Pamela: Yeah. Yeah. I think that too. I think you just have to, I think that the first thing that you lean into is your faith and, and the thing about meditating when I say your faith, I really, I think more meditative as well. Something about meditating that you've learned that I'm sure in your practice.
[01:05:57] So have you noticed that you're able to, like when you're gonna, you know, really get upset about something that practice meditating and bringing your mind back to center allows you to bring your whole self back to where you need to be, because you're practicing that, you know, and so I think take care of yourself.
[01:06:16] That's something that I have not done very well. Not that I don't know if it's COVID it's a past year. I have. I had a sick parent, so I got a lot going on. But I think, you know, take care of you first, because if you don't take care of you, then you're not going to be there. You know what I mean? And when I say out work, I do mean out work, but I mean, use your brain, you know what I mean?
[01:06:37] Like, like levy, the resources that you have, think about the people that are in your circle. We tend to always have peers in our circle. Right. And I think the first thing is that make sure you have mentors in your circle, you know, and, you know, be kind every person that you meet because you never know when you need to walk back through that door.
[01:07:01] And you never know when you'll need that person to speak kind and not because you need something, but just be kind. And I think there's just something about particularly entrepreneurship. And you said walking in abundance, that kindness is as a, as a way of walking in abundance because you know, that means you're happy even when you don't want to be.
[01:07:22] You're nice when you don't want to be. Absolutely. And I think those abstract things are important. 
[01:07:29] Blake: No, I totally agree. I think that it's so essential to do everything that you do. And you know, I think our audience just got a lot. Really great wisdom from you. So I really appreciate you taking the time to share with us today and go over all of that.
[01:07:45] And you know, for everybody listening, please sign up join, join, and be one of the first 100 million. And I'm going to be pushing for 200, 300, 400 and 500 million from there on out Pam with closing out. Is there anything at a,ll? I know we've talked about your, your, you know, movement that you want everybody to join in on, but is there anything you want to plug at all or anything at 
[01:08:07] this?
[01:08:07] Pamela: Well, you know, by better forever, I know we keep talking about that, but I think at this point, you know, by better forever as a game changer, you know, we can change. The world that we live in, we have to, we don't all want to walk around an oxygen mask because at some point that's going to run out, you know, so you know, sign up for by better forever, get your grandmothers to sign up for it, get your mothers to sign up for it.
[01:08:30] And I think that's it, but thank you so much for inviting me. 
[01:08:33] Blake: It was an absolute pleasure. I had a lot of fun. We'll have to, we'll have to do it again sometime. All right, everybody. This was the GEM series and thanks, Pam. It was great to have you on,
[01:08:46] thank you for joining us on this episode of the gem series, the podcast for anybody dedicated to investing in themselves. If you'd like to see the resources mentioned in this episode, learn more about what we're up to at rocket level or come over and join our team. Just click on the links below until next time.
[01:09:04] This is Blake Chapman, and remember to be awesome and do awesome things.