00:00.00 ModGolfPodcast Welcome to the ModGolf Podcast, where we speak with the entrepreneurs, the innovators, the disruptors, and the influencers who are shaping the future of golf. I am your host, Colin Weston, and today i have a return guest. 00:21.07 ModGolfPodcast this is the great thing about doing the ModGolf Podcast and YouTube channel for Gosh, eight years coming up on the eighth year anniversary, almost 200 episodes in. And this gentleman is no stranger, friend of the show with ModGolf. And that is Pete Charleston, who is the co-founder and president of GolfLogix. Had Pete on. I went back and listened to it this morning. It's been a while since I listened to that episode, listened to it all the way through. And I'll include the link, so you can listen to that conversation with Pete after you finish up the conversation I'm about to have with him now. Yeah, that was back in February of 2018. And I just met him at the PGA show back then. They had just launched some new features to the app. And they have come so far since then. And Pete reached out to me. 01:08.80 ModGolfPodcast because it's super exciting what they're doing in the 3D virtual reality space. I'm not going to spoil it. I'm going to let Pete talk about all that good stuff. So with that, Mr. Pete Charleston, welcome back to the ModGolf Podcast. It's been too long and glad to have you back, Pete. 01:26.22 pete It's good to be back on, Colin. As we were chatting before the show and you asked how long it's been, and you told me 2018. So seven years ago, we were on this exact show. And obviously, we were on a different path then, and we've made a lot of pivots since. And I think I have a few more grey hairs since then. But it's been a super fun run. 01:51.59 ModGolfPodcast Nice. Well, I can't wait to hear about all the good things that you've been doing. You did give me access to the app, so I have been playing around with that this morning. We're going to be talking about that, and I'm blown away. 02:03.85 ModGolfPodcast As I mentioned, my background in architecture, I had 3D animation studio. Back in the day before I got into the golf industry. So I am a bit of a geek and a nerd when it comes to virtual reality and 3D animation. So what you're doing, combining that with golf, this is not a gimmick. Everything you're doing with your green reading capability, which you already had perfected and were the industry leader back in 2018 in our previous conversation. 02:30.15 ModGolfPodcast You've just built on that strength, building on strength. So before we dig into that, one thing I've done for the last few years here, Pete, is ask this icebreaker question. And when I went back and listened to our conversation this morning, and I did not ask you that question because no, don't worry. 02:46.48 ModGolfPodcast It's not going to be a gotcha. I wasn't doing this one quite yet. You had mentioned that you're six foot five. You had a background in sports, not in golf necessarily. You play college basketball. So obviously you're athletic guy. 02:58.97 ModGolfPodcast and then got into golf around the turn of the millennium, around 2000, late 1990s. So this is the question I love to ask guests. 03:11.20 ModGolfPodcast And that is your first ever golf experience. What got you the bug? So that but first time you had a club in your hand, and even more importantly, talk about that that power of invitation. Who was that person in your life that encouraged you and invited you to get a golf club in your hand for the very first time? 03:28.74 pete So funny enough, I think I was about 30 when I picked up my first golf club. 03:33.80 ModGolfPodcast Wow. Right, right. 03:34.36 pete I just moved down to Arizona. I didn't know any golfers in high school. I thought all the golf guys were nerds. nerds I was an athlete, athletes don't play golf. 03:46.73 ModGolfPodcast right 03:48.21 pete Back then certainly golf wasn't a prime time thing. And anyway, I moved down to Scottsdale with a prior business I'd started and it was actually my cousin. 04:02.53 pete So, my first cousin is my business partner and co-founder Scott Lambrecht on GolfLogix, but his brother, 04:10.49 pete He lived down here and he begged me to go out and play golf. So I'm like, fine. So we have a couple beers and we go out to a driving range. And I'm thinking, I'm pretty good at every sport I try. This is not going to be that hard. And I get out there for the first time in the range and whoopsie, took a few swipes at the ball, trying to swing really hard as any you know big, strong athlete would. And I realized that, yeah, I couldn't even hit the ball. 04:40.86 pete And it was that day in the range that it got in my head like, whoa, this is the first thing that I haven't just picked up and said, yeah, yeah, yeah. 04:53.24 pete It's not that hard. You guys are all saying this is hard. This is easy. And I got hooked from day one. Just on that driving range, I was awful. And yeah, I think that was it. And it wasn't too long that I was hacking around the golf course and getting some equipment and grinding and yeah, there's history there. 05:17.41 ModGolfPodcast Nice. but And the great thing there, and I see this common thread running through first golf experiences with people, whether it's kids, whether it's guys like yourself that picked it up a little bit later on, and especially with women, is is needing to be invited and being around friends so it feels comfortable. 05:33.96 ModGolfPodcast Even though with guys, we have no problem putting ourselves out there and embarrassing ourselves and still thinking we're doing pretty good. Whether that's a good thing or not, we seem to be able to channel that and do it. But I know talking to a lot of women that they need to surround themselves with friends because golf is hard, as we talked about. And what GolfLogix is doing is making the game better. 05:56.54 ModGolfPodcast i don't know if golf gets easier. well, I guess in a way you are, you're making it more rewarding. You're making it more fun and more gratifying. That's the word I was looking for. The gratification level just goes up and up and up. 06:09.78 ModGolfPodcast So, okay. So talking about GolfLogix with an X at the end, our listeners, some of them may not know what you're doing. So you've had a few years to perfect the elevator pitch for GolfLogix. So why don't let everyone know what you do and why you do it, and then we'll start digging down into all the good things that you're doing now. 06:29.22 pete Well, again, assuming that no one's heard of us or hasn't heard of our story. I always like to start with where we came from and my partner, I started this in 1999. 06:38.07 ModGolfPodcast Right. 06:42.37 pete I would say in the golf industry, we're grizzled veterans here, it's been 25 years and we got a patent on tracking the real game performance data, using a handheld GPS device, while out in the course. 06:43.28 ModGolfPodcast Mm-hmm. 06:58.44 pete And at the time, this is 1999, 2000, 2001, if you ask 10 people what GPS meant, I bet you get maybe one and they had to have been a pilot, maybe a fisherman and maybe a yachtsman, but GPS was not in cars yet. 07:15.40 ModGolfPodcast Right. 07:17.72 pete It was not commonplace. There was just not a lot of devices out there. And because I was learning how to play golf, I said, God, I don't know how far I am. I don't know what club to hit. I don't know how far I hit my clubs. 07:34.14 pete And that just kind of dawned on us. And we filed this patent and we got started. We were fortunate enough. We went down the path trying to create our own device, which was a disaster because there just weren't many people making GPS devices at that time. 07:49.21 ModGolfPodcast Right. Right. 07:50.42 pete And in 1999, 2000, we were fortunate enough to partner with, at the time, Garmin. And Garmin had come out with a a GPS device called an E-TREX, which was this first affordable, handheld device that you could take with you as a hiker that would basically breadcrumb you. 08:10.06 pete So didn't get lost out in the wilderness and run out of water and have to get rescued. 08:10.29 ModGolfPodcast right 08:15.20 pete And we came to them and got them excited about all these things that we were going to do. They weren't in the golf space. And so we wrote all the software and and piggybacked an existing device. 08:28.56 pete And we launched on a bunch of courses at the time we sold to golf courses because having a GPS device was actually illegal under the rules of golf. 08:38.87 ModGolfPodcast Right. 08:39.07 pete Like you could not post a handicap score if you used a GPS device or any kind of range finder device, even the lasers. You could use sprinkler heads, which that makes no sense to me. 08:49.95 pete But you could not use something that told you the same thing that a sprinkler head would. so we went down that path because it was the way it was. We were on Pebble beach. We were on Valderrama. We were on Mission Hills in China. I traveled all over the world hiring distributors and we got on all these courses, but at the end the day, it was a tough business, trying to sell the golf courses and the .com bubble burst in there, the early two thousands and really hurt the golf industry. 09:23.61 pete We went through some rough years and finally the USGA changed their stance. In January of 06, all sudden they went, okay, just kidding. It's now legal to use a handheld GPS device while out there. And, and so Sky Caddy, one of our competitors had already been selling to the consumers. 09:44.93 pete And so we went back to our shareholders and said, Hey guys, we got a shot here. Let's pivot and let's go to retail. And so we raised more money and we went to retail and it was ah an incredible run from 06 and really in 08 was our big year. 10:03.70 pete But if you remember Gary McCord and Peter Costas, and this is back when the Golf Channel allowed the 28 minute infomercial. 10:14.90 ModGolfPodcast Right, right. 10:14.95 pete And at the time we hired a group called the golf agency who just made this incredible infomercial for us with Costas and McCord and their ham and egg and all this stuff. And man, we ran that thing. 10:28.96 pete We're running it twice a day sometimes and it, we just exploded. It was an incredible run. We were in all the retail outlets, we were in Dick's and the sports and all these Golf Smiths, when they had their stores and we were selling online it was just an incredible run. 10:48.63 pete And at its peak, the economy, because we're out of Arizona where it's real estate driven, we felt that economy bump really early on in 08. 10:59.65 pete Right. We knew something bad was coming. 11:03.18 pete And at that same time, the first rumor was the first smartphones were going to come out because they were brand new at the time. 11:13.40 pete The Apple iPhone wasn't out yet, blackberries were in everybody's hands. 11:13.71 ModGolfPodcast yeah 11:19.46 pete But we found out that this blackberry curve, right. With this little baby screen was going to allow you to, it's going to have GPS on board. 11:28.75 ModGolfPodcast i remember that device, yeah. 11:29.39 pete And it was going to be able to allow you and have a nice color screen and you're going to be able to write an app. And so we went back to our shareholders and say, guys, we need to pivot. I know we're doing really well, but this is the future. Why would someone spend $300 on a device if we could put it on something they already have in their pocket? 11:47.95 pete And so, boom, we pivoted at the peak of our sales. And we were the first company to launch on smartphones and that Blackberry curve was our first and then Apple came right behind them. 12:02.65 pete And yeah, we, just absolutely exploded. We were spending millions of dollars on the golf channel with an infomercial promoting an app for your phone. And it was just unheard of. 12:15.63 pete So we had this incredible run. We had that market leader status, we were rolling. We tried all sorts of different features and at the time it was about which phone we were competing on, oh, we've got the new Android phone. 12:32.07 pete We've got the new Samsung. 12:32.39 ModGolfPodcast Right. Right. 12:33.39 pete We've got the new Windows we developed for the Windows phone, the Palm three, that was the whole thing. 12:38.29 ModGolfPodcast right right 12:38.59 pete even though most people only used Apple and Blackberry and eventually Blackberry phased out, but yeah, that was our run up until, 12:53.32 pete 2015, 16, we started seeing these tour players with with these books on the course and they's specifically on the greens. And we're like, what are they doing? I know they have yardage books, but why are they breaking these books out in the greens? 13:08.78 pete And we got our hands on one and we're like, oh, wow. And this is what you and I discussed on our last call, but we're like, oh, wow. 13:14.53 ModGolfPodcast Yes. Yes. 13:15.55 pete This is the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow for a golfer, the holy grail, how does the putt break? 13:27.56 pete If you poured water on a green, where would it go? And it was this moment, well, we don't care about the pros. How do we use technology to be able to get what the pros are using in the amateur's hands? 13:45.73 pete And it was, wow. 13:48.61 ModGolfPodcast One thing i love about your journey is you've managed with you and co-founders and partners to make those difficult decisions of not to hang on to something for too long. 14:03.87 ModGolfPodcast I remember reading a book called The Innovator's Dilemma where they talk about this, where ultimately whatever you have, it could be groundbreaking, pioneering technology, and ultimately the market will become saturated and then will be replaced by the next thing. 14:17.96 ModGolfPodcast And sounds like you've reinvented yourself three, four, even five times in what you're going to talk to us today with what you've just been launching. Here with the virtual reality space with all the golf courses. 14:30.01 ModGolfPodcast So I've got to say that's very commendable because that's not easy to do because to make those decisions of seeing where things are going to be in one year, three years, five years, you know, you're doing a bit of crystal ball gazing, but you're also placing bets on things and taking a bit of a risk. And it sounds like you've done some very, very big pivots that's allowed you to keep leapfrogging, 14:51.22 ModGolfPodcast The competition and even more so not having GolfLogix become obsolete, which if you just keep on down the road, eventually you're going to end up in the ditch by doing that. So let's get back to when we first talked last time. So like I said, listen to the episode and you mentioned you had 4 million users downloads at that time for the app and you and your team, part of your, you barrier to entry and secret sauce was painstakingly, time-consumingly, and expensively, is that a word? 15:30.22 pete I'll take it. yeah 15:30.76 ModGolfPodcast Mapping every single green on the courses that you were then putting in GolfLogix for being able, with putt breaks, to be able to read the greens. So tell us a little bit about that. 15:43.02 ModGolfPodcast And you and I haven't talked in seven years. So then you're go have to bring us up to speed. 15:46.88 pete Yeah. 15:47.74 ModGolfPodcast So I'll give it back to you. Continue with your story. 15:51.04 pete Yeah. Yeah. So we were able to go research this new technology that was creating the ability for golfers to see the green contours. 16:02.93 pete We decided that we were going to put that in our app. We had to go out and get all these golf courses, which was really hard, but this brand new technology, it's not satellite. 16:07.88 ModGolfPodcast Mm-hmm. 16:13.82 pete It's a different technology that is newer. And we dropped it into our app. it was a big update to our app. 16:24.89 pete We put it out there and we realized that, oh, wow, you know people don't know how to use it. They don't know what it means. We're like, okay. We've probably made seven major you know UI changes you know ah to our app, our interface, until we kind of got it down. 16:43.33 pete It was, oh, God, you walk up behind your ball. We use the compass. We rotate the green. so you're actually looking at what's between you and the pin. 16:56.25 pete We wrote a physics engine that's actually not legal according to rules of golf, but so what, people can play and have fun and people can play and compete if they're doing that. 17:08.39 pete But yeah, you draw a line and between the ball and the cup and sure enough, it actually, runs a scenario and fires a bazillion balls really quickly and gives you a read. Aim four inches left and six inches short. And it's a 26 foot putt. 17:31.51 pete It was amazing, right? I mean, just really cool technology. 17:37.07 ModGolfPodcast Yeah, and i remember using it back in the day, even though, yes myself, I'm back up to an 18 handicap. Between last time we talked on the show, I was an 18 handicap at that time. 17:47.64 ModGolfPodcast And during COVID, I managed to get back down to a 12. 17:50.78 pete There you go 17:50.97 ModGolfPodcast I've got a feeling that next time out, and I will be playing tomorrow with a friend at a course in Toronto, I will definitely be opening up the GolfLogix app to give that a go. So let's see if that positively affects my game. We're going to get into this. You've got so much data and you rely on that and make hard decisions on how you're going to pivot the business and also what's working with people, the features that your customers want. 18:11.43 pete Yeah. 18:23.13 ModGolfPodcast gravitate towards they like and even the ones they don't. So we're going to talk about that in the journey also of that feedback loop that you actually get rather than keeping building features and just assuming people want this. I know you're very good at listening to your customers and that's why you've been so successful. So Okay, why don't you walk through, let's bring it up to speed right now. 18:43.72 ModGolfPodcast We're going bounce back and forth between ah between timelines here, but I'm excited. 18:44.05 pete Yeah. 18:48.20 ModGolfPodcast I want you to talk about what I'm looking at on my phone right now with the 3D virtual reality of every single hole. And I've been looking at the course I played yesterday and walking through hole by hole. 19:00.53 ModGolfPodcast So tell us about what you got going on now. 19:03.18 pete Sure. I mean, we are the first company to put, you know, a three d real world virtual reality you know meets real world technology onto a golf app. So when you're standing on the tee box or you're sitting at home in your living room previewing a course you're about to play, you're you hold up your phone. As you're looking through your phone, you are seeing the course as you probably saw. 19:30.97 pete You're standing on this tee box or you're standing in the fairway and you're seeing the trees on the left, you're seeing the bunkers down on the left, the right. We've got almost in an augmented reality. 19:42.10 pete We've got the carry distances to a bunker, over a bunker. You're seeing everything right in front of you. 19:53.32 pete And as you walk or move down the fairway, it's moving with you. And you're now seeing the greens, you're seeing the elevation. It's all in true elevation. 20:05.15 pete You're seeing every hump bump, you're seeing the fairways, you can identify off the tee or and on the approach shot, Ooh, I better avoid this. I now see how this is trouble over here. 20:18.62 ModGolfPodcast Yes. 20:18.63 pete You see the greens, you see the water, you see the bunkers. It really is a massive difference in the other apps that are out there, including ours before it was flat. 20:34.37 pete We called it 3D, but it was really 2D. 20:36.79 ModGolfPodcast Yes. 20:37.59 pete We tried to add a little elevation. But at the end of the day, it was a flat representation of what's not flat. 20:46.58 ModGolfPodcast yes 20:46.68 pete And this is the first really, really big change in the GolfLogix app really in the last five, six years. We were always tweaking and making changes, but this was a big one. This was eight, nine months in the working. 21:07.03 pete Luckily I'm not on that side, but my partner, Scott, and our lead developer, Adam, these guys in the last four months, I don't think they slept. They are so grumpy right now. They're so exhausted. 21:19.32 pete They laid it all out there. And we soft launched last week, but this week we turned on Tuesday, I believe. 21:32.22 pete And so now in the app store, anybody that had our app prior, the automatic updates there. And then any new person that goes to golflogix.com with an X, like you said, or goes into the the Apple App Store or the Google Play Store, for the first time they get to see this technology. 21:53.74 pete And I'm sure from what you saw, the minute you see each app has promo screens and promo videos, You get it. Like it's really obvious how different we are now than the other apps that are competing against us in the golf GPS app space. 22:11.47 ModGolfPodcast one thing that I really love is looking at it for a couple of minutes here before the show started is it doesn't seem like a gimmick. It seems like something that really augments not only experience, but also your performance. So I want to dig into this a little bit just as far as the development, as you talked about, your partners didn't sleep for nine months. 22:35.45 ModGolfPodcast So obviously lots of coffee consumed on the late nights. 22:39.18 pete Yeah. 22:40.28 ModGolfPodcast So can you walk us through that? Maybe they would be the ones that should speak to this, but they're sleeping right now, trying to catch up on their sleep deprivation. So walk us through this. Let's say the last year when you started to explore this and that go, don't go, because I'm sure you have and your team has and all entrepreneurs have and almost an infinite number of possibilities of what they can do, what they can build. 23:01.86 ModGolfPodcast And Steve Jobs once said he was more proud of some of the things that he didn't do that they decided to shutter or not pursue as much as they're proud of the things that they did do. 23:16.96 ModGolfPodcast So the fact that you decided to go this route, can you pull the curtain back a little bit and talk at a high level of what was that decision making like? What was that conversation like? Obviously, you had to do that with your investors also and some of your other partners of figuring out how are we going to build this thing? 23:32.90 ModGolfPodcast And how much is going to cost? How much is it going to take? Is this worth our while to do this? What are the benefits and the value we're providing for not only our customers, but you're a for-profit business with investors, so it has to be profitable. So can you walk us through that as far as that journey over the last year or so of some of the decisions you made and even that first one of how you decided, "yes, we're going to do this" rather than "Uh, no, we're not going to do this because this would be a fun thing to do that we can do on time that's going to lose a lot of money that no one's really going to want." So, so walk us through that. 24:09.45 pete Whenever we decide on new features, the first thing we run it through this filter and we've been using this, it's been our mantra since day one. It's gotta be easy, fast, and fun. 24:23.35 pete You can introduce so much amazing stuff out in the golf course, but if it messes with your routine, it's too hard to learn. If you do all this work and then you get the data back and you're like, Oh, like, that's not even that cool. 24:41.90 ModGolfPodcast Yes. 24:42.03 pete You can't always assume as the entrepreneur, the inventor, the creator, that your vision is the vision that the masses are going to relate to. 24:55.39 pete And we've been really good at that. We really try to think out of the box, come up with really cool, interesting, creative things, groundbreaking technology. 25:07.13 pete But we're smart enough to know that not everybody's going to like it. But it's how we react, right? What we launched this week, our guys are going be tweaking this thing for probably three to six months. No, they don't understand that it does this. And if we just made it easier to do this, then, oh, and then we'll get feedback from our customers. Look, well, God, this is amazing, but how come it doesn't show this? Oh, God, we didn't think of that. Great idea. So we're very interactive with our millions of customers and we're trying to help. 25:51.42 pete My key thing is I want to play with confidence. 25:58.96 ModGolfPodcast Yes. 25:59.10 pete This game is really, really, really hard. Even if you're you played as a kid, it's still hard. But especially as if you took up golf later in life, you don't have that natural swing, and it's really easy to get frustrated out there. 26:17.73 pete We're trying to build something that you know allows you to play with confidence. And when you're standing on that tee box, you're not just looking out at this, I don't even know where to hit it, you're giving them this vision, this ability to see what you've never been able to see, right? You could just see it with your eye. You can zoom in and GolfLogix can show you what the hole does 250 yards down the fairway. 26:49.08 pete I can show you, Oh God, this is a huge berm. I can aim over there and it's going to shoot the ball to the right. Or, Ooh boy, if I go over that, oh man, that thing's running downhill towards the desert, towards the water, towards the mountain. 27:04.88 ModGolfPodcast Right. 27:05.85 pete It just gives you this vision, that you have off the tee. 27:06.40 ModGolfPodcast Mm-hmm. 27:12.06 pete For me, it's confidence, that vision. One of our taglines for years was "play smarter". 27:25.49 pete You gotta learn from your mistakes while you're playing golf. The only way to get better, and it may not even be your golf swing. Playing smarter, playing with more intelligence. 27:42.03 pete If you can give yourself that intelligence and you learn from it and your course management, you can save a lot of strokes, not by having a better golf swing, but just by don't hit it over here. 27:52.60 ModGolfPodcast Yes. 27:55.73 pete If that's not your strength or, if you stay away from this, and you can see it because you're sitting on this tee box or you're sitting in the middle of the fairway looking at the green, you make better choices. 28:07.55 ModGolfPodcast yes 28:08.49 pete And if you make better choices, maybe you don't get that double or triple bogey. Maybe you get a bogey, maybe you get a par. Maybe you birdie it. These are all things that are possible you know when you're using something that helps you become you know more intelligent about the game. 28:27.60 ModGolfPodcast Right, right. Well, I know we're just using our words here because this is an audio podcast, but you and i after we finish up here, are going to jump over for a video recording that we will post on the ModGolf YouTube channel. And we are going to be pulling up some demo videos and some screenshots and walking through the experience that we're going to there so i highly encourage all of our listeners here to join us on the mod golf youtube channel i will include the link to our video in the episode show notes here so once again we're not going to repeat the same conversation 29:04.55 ModGolfPodcast So yeah, if you enjoy listening here, then you'll also enjoy watching over there on the ModGolf YouTube channel. So one of the things I wanted to ask you here also is about that experience. And yes, we will run through that when we have the visuals here. 29:17.57 ModGolfPodcast But as far as that player journey, let's walk through... myself. I'm going to play this course here in Toronto again with the app that I played yesterday once I return from Ireland or maybe even in Ireland. I mentioned I am speaking at a golf business technology conference in a week and we'll be playing some golf before and afterwards. And I asked you, do you have the courses over there? And I'll let you speak to this. And it sounds like you've got pretty much every single course around the world dialled in now, don't you, in your database? 29:48.60 pete We do. Yeah we've been at this for 25 plus years and we should have every course done in the world. With respect to the 3D view, we don't have them all, but every day we're adding more. It's a different technology that gets you there. 30:06.11 pete Same with the greens. We are all day, every day, our mapping team, and that is what they're doing. They're out there, A: adding new courses and B: the hard part about this game or this, being in the golf GPS game is that the renovations just keep coming. Every course seems to be changing on a daily basis. 30:26.86 ModGolfPodcast Yes. 30:29.93 pete Sometimes it's as easy as, "oh, we flipped the nines. Now one is 10 and 10 is one. They changed the scorecard on us. They renovated two holes." 30:40.57 pete And so, we're constantly playing this game. 30:41.11 ModGolfPodcast yes 30:43.46 pete And i think one of the things that we have a massive advantage over is that we have not only these millions of users with GolfLogix, but we have some great licensed partners in the USGA, and I don't know if you knew this, but in the USGA app and the GenMobile app, there's Golf GPS in there and that's us. 31:07.96 pete And so we're getting a tremendous amount of feedback from our partners and our partners' customers And so we're able all around the world, we know about changes really quickly after they happen. 31:21.48 pete And we have a ticketing tool that comes in and usually within 24 hours, we've updated the course. And the next time you download it it's going to be perfect. 31:31.85 ModGolfPodcast Nice. Nice. Last question I want to ask you is about your customers, your users. The golf industry and organizations representing and supporting golf have done a really good job over the last five years, really putting it front and forward to make golf more welcoming, to make it more diverse, to make so younger people especially more women and that diversity piece. So i'm interested to hear what you found with the users of GolfLogix just as far as age. I don't know if you're able to determine or the feedback you get if you're able to tell the gender balance and even the personas that gravitates most towards your app as far as the age. So can you talk a bit about your users and the diversity and how that's changed even since you and I spoke last seven years ago? 32:29.00 pete Sure. GolfLogix as a whole, our vision has always been about focusing on the masses. Do we love the really good scratch golfers in the plus? Of course, but there's just not many of them. 32:42.92 ModGolfPodcast Right. 32:43.11 pete And who we love? We love you, Colin. We love an 18 handicapper. That's amazing for us. Because if I get an 18 handicap or a newer youth that's playing, a junior, we get a woman that is learning golf, their improvement rate is so dramatic. If you can make them more intelligent out there, if you can give them a complete view of the course and they're standing on the tee box and they can see the elevation changes and they can we help them visualize their shots and when you do all these things, and help them read their putts. Obviously that was a huge piece because most people don't know how to read greens. 33:24.50 ModGolfPodcast Right. Right. 33:26.06 pete All of sudden this person may shoot 110 and then with a little help, they shoot a hundred or 99. And if you take a three handicap, maybe they shoot one low round, you're not moving their dial much, but when I get someone in our GolfLogix funnel, that is new to the game or has taken a re-interest in the game when they have more time, we see dramatic changes. 33:43.55 ModGolfPodcast right 33:57.95 pete So yeah, it's been super fun. When we started this business, I would say we had about 3% women. It was really low and we have watched women golfers, certainly since COVID, it's been phenomenal. And we're very helpful because we help them. 34:20.66 pete A lot of them don't know how far they hit the ball. 34:23.86 ModGolfPodcast right 34:24.21 pete And we have we have some features in our app that allow you to track your clubs at the very start, plug in your club distances. So maybe you're a woman golfer, you're taking lessons and, you say, "okay, instructor, how far am I hitting my clubs?" 34:42.33 pete You plug it into the app and then it overlays on the screen and shows you little arcs. And so you plug in like, "Ooh, maybe I shouldn't hit my driver here. Or if I hit my eight iron, where will it go? Oh, it's going to go in that bunker. Okay. I need to hit more club." 34:58.58 pete So we're a great tool for any type of golfer. 35:07.25 ModGolfPodcast Love this. Love this. I'll tell you what, I can keep going on and on and on here. I've got lots more to ask you, but why don't we jump over to our video call with the ModGolf YouTube channel? 35:12.60 pete Yeah. 35:18.29 ModGolfPodcast Like I said, I encourage all of our listeners to become viewers over there because you will get a demo there. And Pete's going to walk us through some good stuff, especially with the virtual reality 3D animation. That's going to be fun. 35:31.65 ModGolfPodcast So, hey, to finish up here, once again, why don't you let people know where they can find out more about you? I know it's nice and easy to download the app, but I'll leave it to you, Pete. Let people know where they can download it and learn more about GolfLogix. 35:45.31 pete Very good. Go to golflogix.com and that's L O G I X. And it'll be very obvious right on our homepage. 35:52.95 ModGolfPodcast Yep. 35:53.32 pete We just redid our website. It just went live this week. ah You're going to see some amazing 3d animation and that's not tricked up. That's what you're going to see in the app, in the app store. 36:05.65 pete So you can scroll down and I assume we'll look at that on your YouTube segment and then they can either click there and download if they're on their phone directly from you know our website, it'll take you to the correct app store or go right into the Apple App Store or the Google Play Store and search Golf Logix, L-O-G-I-X, and you'll be able to you know download that. We offer a free trial and you're able to go in there and for seven days you can use every single feature. 36:35.32 pete And if we sold you, great and you upgrade, it's wonderful. 36:38.41 ModGolfPodcast Thank you. 36:40.66 pete We'd love to give you access to all the full features. But if you don't, we have an incredible app that you still get to use for free. And what remains is you're still going to get you know whole imagery. You're going to get distance to the center of the green. 36:54.37 pete You're going to be able to track your scores and stats. And that's all for free. So it's a great way for everybody to check it out, try it, and not have any risk. 37:07.37 ModGolfPodcast Good stuff. Well, as I always do, as I mentioned in the show notes, I will also include the links to golflogicx.com. Make it nice and easy for you, our listeners, to find that. So you don't have to write that down here while you're listening to us. 37:22.48 ModGolfPodcast So with that, Pete Charleston, co-founder of GolfLogix. I hope it's not another seven years and two months until we have another conversation because who knows what you'll be doing. Maybe at that time, it'll all be embedded as a neural implant with GolfLogix. 37:35.04 pete Yeah. 37:35.65 ModGolfPodcast It'll all be in your head and with your eyes, there'll be an overlay. Who knows what you'll be doing in seven years, but I've got a feeling you won't be standing still gathering moss by the side of the green, that you will be constantly innovating because what I've learned about you, Pete, and your team, it's burned into your DNA. That's who you are, and you can't you can't help yourself. You have to keep keep moving forward and progressing, which is amazing because I see so many entrepreneurs that just stick down and double down on what they're doing. And then next thing you know, they go off the edge of a cliff because what they've created is now obsolete because they didn't keep innovating. So you're an inspiration for entrepreneurs everywhere to keep innovating. 38:24.03 ModGolfPodcast Yes, you have success, but you realize that there's more success down the road. So that that's amazing. So once again, Pete, thanks for joining me on the ModGolf Podcast. 38:34.22 pete Thank you so much for having me on. it And I will say one more thing. You better just mark the calendar for about 18 months from now. We're already working on something that is new, crazy, groundbreaking, and will be really fun and interesting to discuss. So I think we're going to be able to, it won't be seven, eight years before we're on again talking about something really incredible. 38:58.44 ModGolfPodcast All right. Well, you're just teasing me. And one thing I noticed on the last show from seven years ago, we had promised each other that I was going to make it down to Scottsdale to to to play a round or two with you. you'll Sounds like you'll have to give me about a dozen strokes or so, but we can we can tee it up together. 39:13.07 pete i would I would love to. You better ah better wait until we only have a month left and it's going to start getting hot here. you better wait until the weather gets nice. 39:21.74 ModGolfPodcast That's true. That's true. All right, Pete, thanks again. Looking forward to talking to you on the ModGolf YouTube channel, and we'll leave it at that. So again, thanks for joining us on the ModGolf podcast. 39:33.69 pete Thanks so much, Colin.