00:00.00 ModGolfPodcast Welcome to the ModGolf Podcast, where we speak with the entrepreneurs, the innovators, the disruptors, and the influencers who are shaping the future of golf. I am your host, Colin Weston. 00:33.54 ModGolfPodcast And of the 200 episodes I've done, almost all of them have been remote. People have been from all over the world. And that's the beauty of technology these days. But you know what? In real life is the best, and my guests today are standing right beside me, as I'm not in Canada. I'm not in Vancouver right now. I am in, well, I was going say I'm in Scotland, but actually we're in the northern part of England on the border of Scotland right now, and I am with the guys from The Links Diary. I had the pleasure of meeting Graeme McCubbin, one of our guests joining us here today, who is the creative director and one of the photographers with the magazine. I mentioned the magazine, so The Links Diary is just that. 01:13.00 ModGolfPodcast They are a beautiful, released three times a year coffee table quality magazine - the stories they tell, the graphics and the the imagery thanks mainly to Graeme here is second to none, world-class stuff and as a creative and designer myself I gravitated towards Graeme at the PGA show in Orlando a couple months ago and said "Graeme, gotta get you on the show!" He's been busy. He's got a full-time gig where he's running around the world doing golf photography. So he's tough to pin down. 01:43.67 ModGolfPodcast So just worked out that I happened to be in Ireland last week at a golf business conference speaking there. And Graeme said to me a couple of months ago hey, why don't you you join us for this three-day golf trip that we're going on that they're going to so explain in a minute. 01:56.88 ModGolfPodcast And it just worked out. The planets aligned. And here I am. We're in this ridiculously large manor house with 16 bedrooms. We keep getting lost. I haven't seen these guys for three days. Well, maybe not that long, but it feels like it. 02:08.78 ModGolfPodcast But I've got them here now. And with that, I also have Kenny Pallas, who is one of the two co-founders and is the head of partnerships. So I've got the two gentlemen here and I'm going to be passing the mic around. This is the way we're going to do it. Like I said, they're standing right here staring at me. 02:26.68 ModGolfPodcast So I am going to start with the icebreaker question that i ask quite often. And this is around golf, that introduction to golf, who introduced you to golf and what age did you have that club in your hand first? So Graeme, I'm going to hand it to you and I'm going to let you answer that question first. 02:45.22 Graeme McCubbin No problem, and thanks for having us along. It's great to be on the ModGolf podcast. And for me, a think back to 1997, there was a certain Mr. Eldrick Woods who played so well at the Masters when i was 12 years old and that was when I decided football or soccer wasn't for me and golf possibly was. I've played golf for almost 28 years now so off the back of that off the back of watching him win the Masters with such dominance. 03:20.72 ModGolfPodcast Well, there you go. Okay, so this power of invitation, was it Tiger then that invited you, but was it did you just go out yourself? Because I always find that someone usually has to then ask you, or are you one of those rare breeds that just picked up a golf club and went, "you know what, the hell with it, I'm going to do it myself." 03:36.93 Graeme McCubbin I watched it on the telly, and then I went to my mom, "I want to play golf". And thankfully, she knew some people who had some golf clubs, and I got my little half set. 03:49.56 Graeme McCubbin I think there were Hippos. Hippos from back in the day. I don't know fear if you're aware of Hippo golf clubs. I got some Hippos. My mom got me joined in a club. 04:00.97 Graeme McCubbin And yeah, that was it. And I went out there and learned my myself. If you watched me play golf, you could tell. 04:11.18 ModGolfPodcast Well, you've been busy with cameras, like two or three of them strapped around you running around the golf course. I haven't seen you swing a golf club yet. So hopefully tomorrow with our third round, which we're going to get into a minute here. 04:21.27 ModGolfPodcast But before we do that, Kenny, I saw you. You're a one handicap, but your first swing today, you certainly didn't look like a one there, pal. Maybe you can tell us about that because that was not your first swing ever, but it looked like maybe what could be someone's first swing. So why don't you tell us what happened in the first tee and then tell us about how you got introduced to the game. 04:57.29 Kenny Pallas Sure, Colin. Thanks for having us. So yeah, at dinner after the golf, someone said "I did a Kenny" and then I realized that meant to stone cold top it and that has now stuck, which is excellent. But yeah, I topped it off the first tee today, sent the ball 10 feet up in the air, nearly killed Graeme who was in a dangerous photography spot and everyone had a good laugh. But yeah, I started playing golf when I was seven. So I'm 39 this year. And you would think having played that long, you wouldn't top it on the first day anymore. But there we are. 05:09.50 Kenny Pallas Topped it more than one time today. But yeah, for me, it was my dad and my grandpa, my mum's dad. They both got me in. I played football and like every male in this part of Scotland does but I wasn't so good. I needed another sport and that was my quality time with my dad when I was seven we would go up we'd play like seven or eight holes at the club that I played all my junior golf at and at 12 I got a membership. Mr Woods was starting to hit the scene golf became a little bit cooler and the rest is history still obsessed. 05:45.24 ModGolfPodcast And yeah, I did see that first tee shot today. and I love the fact you were playing conservatively. You're going with an iron off the tee rather than bombing a driver. And that's what happens in golf sometimes. You get punished for being conservative, but you're going to tee it up again tomorrow. And tomorrow's a different day. You never know what's going to go on. Okay, so neither of you have played professional golf, but you're both in the golf industry and now with The Links Diary i'm going to have both of you to pass the mic back and forth. So Graeme i'm going to start with you because once again we met at the PGA show, we connected, you were nice enough to give me a copy of the magazine i believe that was volume 10. So you've been doing it for roughly three years now because you do three a year if that's correct or maybe you started off slower than that. 06:26.00 ModGolfPodcast You did. it started with two a year. Okay. So let's talk about, as we do in entrepreneurship, the AHA Moment, how this came together. You guys, bringing the four of you together, you all have different skill sets. And we met Jaimie and he brings something to the table also that you two don't. So you're all combining your powers here. So why don't you tell me the backstory, the birth story of The Links Diary where you went from, why this would be a good idea and should we actually do this and push it forward. So tell us about that. 06:58.98 Graeme McCubbin So this all started in what I could only describe as when the world shut down. We got relatively bored with mainstream media and how they portray golf and all they're trying to do is sell you an advert for every single page for another product. 07:20.89 Graeme McCubbin Here's how to gain 10 yards. These tees are going to help you hit the ball further. And we felt disenfranchised with that side of golf and thought, "Wouldn't it be cool if we could do something different?" 07:33.41 Graeme McCubbin Tell real stories, use proper imagery that's curated to make you feel something. So when you read it and you see the imagery, you feel like you're part of this journey or this story. 07:44.34 Graeme McCubbin And it all happened through Instagram. A message was sent, "Anybody want to try and do something different in the golf space?" 07:56.68 Graeme McCubbin I had previously known Jamie, Kenny, I didn't know Stuart, but we'd connected in mutual your love of golf and design, photography, and they were the first three guys that we all got together and then it was like, right, let's make a WhatsApp chat, let's brainstorm, and then a few months later, we've got a logo, we've got a name and it just kind of grew from there. And that that for me is how it all started. And Kenny might have a different perspective like from his point of view, but yeah. 08:34.09 Kenny Pallas Thanks, Graeme. Yes, I still remember it. I was in my apartment, my flat, the middle of COVID. At eight o'clock, we were going out and thanking the NHS every night. And the room that I did that in, I got a WhatsApp from Graeme saying, couple of guys want to start a golf magazine. 08:49.70 Kenny Pallas Are you in? And I just said, yes, I don't care what it is. I don't need to know any more details. Just count me in and I'll be part of it. And I think I got the text because I did a bit golf writing, had done for a while for a Canadian sports blog. And that was it. And like Graeme said, we did it all over WhatsApp and Instagram. We just did it virtually. 09:12.55 Kenny Pallas And we just wanted to celebrate what it is to be a golfer, to love playing golf. Good or bad, like today, you know, personally, I didn't play well, but I walked off the golf course smiling because I was in good company on a good course in good conditions. So you can't beat that. 09:27.31 Kenny Pallas So anyway, that that was it. And we created a virtual, like an e-version of the magazine. We printed 100 copies of a physical magazine, so we each chipped in like 50 pounds, I think. Was it 250? Yeah, we chipped in a bit money to get that print run done, and then we sent them around various key figures in the golf industry, and people couldn't get enough of it. 09:51.18 Kenny Pallas When are you going to print this? When are you going to do this? We kept getting messages. So we thought, right, let's expand out number one, because it was quite a short... No, we made number two. We made two and then we went back to one and expanded it out to the size that two was. But I think the interesting thing was because it was COVID, we couldn't go out and get stories. So it was what do we have access to now? 10:13.55 Kenny Pallas What text did do we have or people do we have access to and images that match so we can build out this magazine? And that's where Jamie came in really at the start because he had a good network, as did Graeme through his freelance stuff, so we could get to people. 10:29.32 Kenny Pallas Stuart being the designer he was able to tie it all together and create that final product that we have now so it was an all hands to the pump. Who do we know what do we know how do we do this and there we are. Probably those constraints helped us develop what we had and then we've gone off on that direction from there. 10:57.77 ModGolfPodcast The four of you, did anybody have any publishing experience, any magazine experience? So you started digital and then you went to print. Once you had, as we call, product market fit, you had fans, you had people who want this magazine. So I'm curious to hear about that. How did you figure that out? And I love the fact you did, because so many entrepreneurs, people starting out, they get paralyzed, and then they don't start. And you sounds like you just figured it out as you went it's like, "we have a gap there. Let's, let's find a solution. Let's find a printer. Let's find how we actually do that. Let's find our pricing model and all those good things." So I'd love to hear that. 11:32.34 ModGolfPodcast You describe, because of course we're painting pictures with words here, even though we've had some imagery in the show notes for people to see for The Links Diary and some covers. But can you describe for the listeners what it is, the quality of the magazine when they open up and that texture and the feel and that experience with the magazine? So talk to us about that. 11:55.76 Graeme McCubbin Yeah, the feel and the experience of the magazine is something that we pride ourselves in. So when that is one of the toughest things, people see it online, they read it and they see the articles, they see the videos. 12:10.13 Graeme McCubbin A lot of people don't realize there's a print publication there so when they actually do figure it out and they see it and they feel it and they get that smell of the fresh print and you're just like this is real, this is tangible. You can feel it in your fingers it feels amazing and for us that is one of the biggest parts is if you're going to deliver a premium product, make it premium. Don't scrimp around everything else and try and make it look premium. 12:41.81 Graeme McCubbin Just make it premium, because then people people are more likely to be invested in what you're doing if you stick to what you think is right and follow your narrative and keep going in that direction. 12:54.36 ModGolfPodcast Okay, I'm going to stick with you for a second here, Graeme. As the creative director, but maybe Kenny knows the answer to this too. I'm sure you guys had lots of lively discussions slash arguments, almost fistfights over what you should do and not to do. 13:06.99 ModGolfPodcast How about something as simple, even though it's complex, as the paper stock you're going to use? Because even the quality and the thickness, so none of you have experience there, but in that... when you pick up the magazine and turn the page, even the sound it makes, the quality is there, not just the imagery and the beautiful stories. 13:23.85 ModGolfPodcast Why don't you tell us about some of the lively discussions you had of making decisions that you didn't all agree on? 13:44.58 Kenny Pallas There's a lot of discussions when it comes to stuff like this. And We've put our trust in Stuart, who is our designer. So initially when we started, we did a lot of online research and it turned out this company was great for smaller print runs, more bespoke, pick what you want and they'll create it for you. Then we've had issues with just things not being exactly the way we wanted it. So then we tasked Stuart with like, you're the designer, you're the person that puts this out there effectively at the end of the day. He pulls everything together and makes it look the way it wants. So we want you to make it feel the way you want it to feel. 14:18.75 Kenny Pallas So he did a lot of research and we've now ended up with the print manager who but actually takes the onus off of us. So when we've created the product, he makes sure it's delivered the way we want it to be delivered. The paper stuff for me, it's never been that thing, but as until you feel it, you realize that it all matters. 14:42.32 Kenny Pallas Even for me, as my vision, I can see how I want it to look, but the texture and the feel was never something until I actually felt it. And we've went from different variations of the magazine. So if you get an issue number one, two, three, or four, that's gonna feel different from a five, six, seven, eight till now where we're on a completely different print friend company and we've got print manager who's getting us what we desire. 15:12.02 Kenny Pallas So he's finding the right people to get the right products, to get the magazine the way we want it. And that it a hard thing because print is not perfection. 15:23.93 Kenny Pallas You can't perfect print. You're gonna have issues. And it's just about minimizing those issues and making sure that we are providing the best product and still functioning as a company. 15:39.04 ModGolfPodcast Kenny, i think you can speak for all four you on this. i'm going to ask the name, The Links Diary. I'm sure there was a lot of discussion over what you should name your magazine. So I'd love to hear about the origin story and how you landed on The Links Diary. 15:50.24 ModGolfPodcast And also, it's a completely open field of what you can talk about. And you don't want to talk about everything. You guys are focusing on stories, golf stories related or golf adjacent stories that are about people that happen in Scotland. So I think you've defined that. That's kind of the lane you're in, but I'm sure there are other options. So tell us about how you landed on what you're going to talk about and be the themes and the pillars behind The Links Diary and and how the the name was landed on. 16:21.84 Graeme McCubbin Thank you. To start with the themes, it was clear from the start, it was about what does it mean to be a golfer? What does it feel like to be a golfer and celebrate that? 16:33.06 Graeme McCubbin Being from Scotland, we knew we had an advantage there because no one was telling that type of story from the home of golf. So we wanted to really lean into that and show people that, someone like yourself coming over here on vacation or a work trip, but taking golf in while you're there, you can go and play these other places and enrich that experience. 16:53.37 Graeme McCubbin So play the famous courses, but there's other people out there that you'll get to meet and other experiences that you're going to get to have if you just veer slightly. And that was after quite a lot of discussion where the name came from, because it's a direistic feeling of playing and experiencing golf. So what was that day like that fictional day or that experience and noting that down so that you can relive it or live it through someone else? 17:27.06 Graeme McCubbin And we've always struggled with the various things that we could go and do. I think like every business, you sit down, you start and go, "right, here's what we're going to do." And as you start to do it, you get all of these ideas of other things you can do and revenue streams that you could probably build. 17:43.61 Graeme McCubbin But one of the really hard things that we've done has been difficult is being really strict with ourselves and going "magazine first and do a good job, be really pragmatic' and when we spoke earlier about going from two editions a year to three it's always been what can we deliver in high quality. So it's always been magazine first and then let's start to build out other avenues that we can still tell that story and still tie it back to the magazine. 18:11.51 Graeme McCubbin So the experiences, how do we tie them back to the magazine when we're away playing and things like that. So for me, I don't know if the other guys see it this way, but I've always sort of seen us as a band and these are our albums. 18:24.32 Kenny Pallas So we've got our creative differences. I'll be the drummer and you could be a lead guitarist if you want, Graeme. and But each album is like, how does that tie together? And how does it tie in with the ones we've done before? 18:38.32 Kenny Pallas And they're all precious. And to go back to the paper thing, I didn't have much to do with that because I'm so far away from that. But for me, it was just, "how do we create something?" The only thing I cared about was how do we create something that when someone reads it, it doesn't go in the bin and the trash, it goes back on the shelf and it sits there so that it can be reread another time and it's always timeless. 18:59.78 Kenny Pallas And I think the quality of the paper just brings you back in. makes sure you want to go back and revisit. 19:06.75 ModGolfPodcast I love that. I love that. 19:19.05 ModGolfPodcast Okay, so you have created 11 albums already. I believe the 12th is actually in production right now. And one of the many things I love about what you guys are doing, talking to all four co-founders over the last couple of days, is accept for Jamie, who's full-time now, this is a full-time job that's a side hustle because you all have your other careers ah in and around golf. 19:44.23 ModGolfPodcast But the way the this is ascending and on the trajectory that hopefully, fingers crossed, in the next next while that you all four can be working on this full-time with the way that you're going, is super, super exciting. 19:57.16 ModGolfPodcast So let's talk about stories. This is about storytelling, visual storytelling, and also the writing. So I'm going to hand the mic over to each of you, and I want you to share some stories. Sure it's going to be hard to pick because I'm sure all your babies you love, but which one is your favorite baby? Which story do you want to share with our listeners here that's going to really compel them to go out and and then pick up a copy of the magazine. So I'll start over with you, Kenny. So one story that that really resonates with you. 20:30.68 Kenny Pallas Through Graeme and his work, I think with the Tartan Tour, we found out about a group of gentlemen at Kings Barrens, who are retired, various backgrounds from police officers to postmen and other things in between. 20:49.45 Kenny Pallas And they go out every morning and they help repair the course. And Graeme said, we need to speak to these guys. Here's the email of their manager. Get in touch with them. So I did. And we phoned. I was actually in Spain at the time and we had a phone interview. So a lot of our articles are actually interviews. 21:04.89 Kenny Pallas We don't publish them as a question then answer. We weave it into a full story. So I sat and spoke to the devitologists, which is what they call themselves. And the stories were just so funny. And you could tell these were just a bunch of guys who loved the company. That was clear they were a band of brothers. There was two teams and there was a fierce rivalry between each team. 21:29.85 Kenny Pallas And they spent every morning caring for a course that they love. And it was really sincere. Some of these men have died because they are quite a lot older. So they've got a rule that if you're half an hour late, you're probably dead. 21:46.27 Kenny Pallas And there it's a real dark humour. And what I don't think we printed this in the end but during the conversation, the guy I was speaking to said that they had spread the ashes of one of the devitologists who had sadly passed on one of the tees because that's what he wanted. 22:03.38 Kenny Pallas But then they moved the tee. So the grounds team decided to move the tee. And all the devitologists were up in arms because they're like," oh, you're moving, John." But just speaking to those guys, and they were what the magazine was all about because you wouldn't know they existed because they come in, they do their work, they go home. 22:20.66 Kenny Pallas And we were able to showcase them and Graeme took beautiful pictures of them, on a really rainy day, which shows the conditions they go out in. But then we did a film about them as well. 22:32.15 Kenny Pallas And you got to see their personalities come out off the page. So it tied back to the text. And again, that's that thing of, can we tie stuff together so that you can go a little bit further into the story? And yeah, I think that's going to be a tough one to beat for me. 22:44.28 ModGolfPodcast There we go. Okay, I have a couple that I've read in volume 11, every single article, some of them even twice. I'm going to hold off on that. But Graeme, it's over to you now. So come on, pick one of your favourite babies. You look like you're going have a tough time here, but here we go. 23:02.12 Graeme McCubbin Yeah, I'm having a really tough time right now because we've done a lot of stories. And I've been a part of quite of a lot of them. So from a visual point of view, it's a hard to pick. 23:17.75 Graeme McCubbin And sometimes it might not even be me who does the visual work and I'm just like, "yeah, that story is brilliant." But one of my favorites is The Last Carry. 23:32.60 Graeme McCubbin Right. we've done previously done a video on Chris McBride who is a caddy at Prestwick. He's been a caddy for 56 years of his life since he was 13 years old. His friends went picking tatties and he went caddying golf clubs around Turnberry. oh And he's been a caddy ever since. He's caddied on the main tours. 23:58.81 Graeme McCubbin And then after he finished on the main tours, one of the caddy masters at Prestwick said, "we'd love to have you come and be a caddy at Prestwick". And he's been there for 36 years of his life carrying at Prestwick. One of the most amazing clubs in the world to be a caddie at. And when you spend time with Chris, you can see why he's a good caddie and you can see why people request him because his humour, his knowledge of the course is second to none. He'll never give you a bad read. 24:35.88 Graeme McCubbin And just being in his presence, we went to do the photos and when we turned up, this was during lockdown. So it's two weeks after The Masters, middle of lockdown i think it was the year The Masters when there was very little patrons and we get to the first tee to meet chris and he's wearing a Masters hat from that year and i'm going "how is this even possible?" Nobody's traveling nobody's moving and he's like "It's not what you know, it's who you know." And it's that kind of people, he's carried for presidents, he's carried for you name it, famous people like Neil Armstrong, he said, was the one that caught him. He was very humbled by. And it wasn't until like the third or fourth hole in when he figured out who he was. 25:27.05 Graeme McCubbin And he's carrying his clubs and he's talking and he's like, "he never once told me who he was, he wasn't interested in that, he was here to play golf". And bringing his story to life because he's such a character for me it was great. And then to do it with an actual short film was even better. A lot of the stuff was not broadcastible. His one, his one liners. If you ever pick him as his one liners will floor you yeah and you'll be like, "I'm going to remember that." There's going to be people all around the world spreading these one-liners are unbroadcastable. But he's just such a character. For me, yeah, that's it's one of my favorites. I think that was an early issue. 26:13.73 Graeme McCubbin I think that was the third issue, we brought that story to life. And Jim Hartzell wrote that story for us. And Jim is... yeah one of the writers that we love and admire and brings us some of the most amazing stories, personal and just magical stories. And yeah, for me, that's definitely a standout because the ones that stand out are the ones we've brought to life. And then if we can then bring them to life through video, for me is very humbling because like Kenny said, if we can make you feel something when you read it, imagine what we can make you feel if we actually bring the person to life in another tangible form. It's a nice feeling when we get that. 26:59.16 ModGolfPodcast All right, well, I have read cover to cover volume 10, which you were so kind to gift to me back at the PGA Show. I can talk about every single story in that one. 27:11.65 ModGolfPodcast But now you've got volume 11 that's out at the moment. So I see on the cover, you've got a young woman who's a caddie, and that's the head story. But i'm going to pass over to you, Kenny, without spoiling too much, because we want to encourage our listeners here, that I will include in the show notes The Links Diary website and so they can subscribe and become a member because you're doing amazing stuff. Why don't you just give us a little teaser of that story on the cover. 27:55.26 Kenny Pallas So we know that our content is very male heavy. Unfortunately, golf is. But we really wanted to try and change that. And we were desperate to get a story. 28:07.17 Kenny Pallas We had one in our hands, potentially, of group of girls that caddie from Carnoustie. But it didn't work out. And I sent a few messages around to people I know and said, "have you got any good stories about girls that we can feature because we really want to get this done?" We're talking 10 in. That's quite bad. 28:27.50 Kenny Pallas So we heard about this girl, Abby, who I follow on Instagram. and she's a Sterling Uni golfer. She's an excellent golfer. She happens to caddie at Gullane. 28:38.38 Kenny Pallas So I sent her a message. I said, "would you be interested in this?" And she said, yes. And she's like, I don't want to say cocky, she's not cocky, but she's super confident and assure of herself. And to illustrate that, when we filmed it, we were on the first tee and I've not played Gullane before. So I said to her, :where'd I hit it?" And she turned to me and she said, "well, I assume you hit it as far as I do. So you can hit it at that bunker." And I just laughed. I went, right, okay, here we are. 29:12.74 Kenny Pallas And yeah, she's just telling the story of what it's like to be the only girl that does that. But she's a fascinating person. She was the first female junior member of Muirfield. She plays for Sterling Uni, as I say. She won the British Women's Uni Championships this year. So she's an excellent golfer. 29:33.10 Kenny Pallas She just loves golf for all the right reasons. She lives walking distance to Gullane so she like Chris with Prestwick it's in her blood and from a family of golfers and she just loves to take people around and help them play the best they can. We told that story so yeah we're we're hoping we can do more with her in the future because she is such a character and thankfully I did hit it where she told me and i didn't top it. 30:29.71 ModGolfPodcast I love that. Well, I can spend the next two hours going through every single story that I know of because they're all gems. But we're going to switch gears here a little bit and talk about why I'm standing here in the room with both Graeme and Kenny. So they have an event. It's the first, and hopefully an annual event, the Stand on Solway, they have called it. So I'm going to go over to Graeme because they've created this, and this is quite the experience. So please talk about the first two days of this event. We're at the two thirds point, one more day tomorrow, one more round of the three. So tell us about what you created here and why you did it. 30:47.73 Graeme McCubbin So we're always looking to bring people, everything like Kenny said earlier, everything reports back to the to the magazine. We're trying to bring people back to that. And then we create all these amazing stories and it's like, "how can we bring these stories to life?" And how can we help people be a part of these stories and experience it for themselves? 31:03.18 Graeme McCubbin So last year we thought, "right, we're gonna try and put on some events but we're gonna circulate them around stories that we've done." So we did four events last year. 31:15.03 Graeme McCubbin We did Panmure, which is where Hogan did his practice before he won at Carnoustie. We did the Lost Links, and we did Machrihanish. We did the matches at Machrihanish Golf Club. And so there was three events last year, and this year we're going for six. But it's trying to bring a bit of that history. So if we've done a story, then we then try and bring the stories to life and let people experience it. So it's not just another golf trip. 31:50.03 Graeme McCubbin You're getting to meet random people. You're getting to make new connections, which then could lead to you then meeting these people in future times and go and play golf for them whenever they visit your country or you come back to theirs. We're trying to showcase golf in a different light where the scorecard doesn't matter. If you're not having a day, it doesn't matter. We don't care. 32:13.23 Graeme McCubbin I don't know if it's the same in America, it's a very UK thing where every round of golf counts and people get caught up with every round of golf. And for me and Kenny, if you're a certain level of golfer and you have a bad hole, your round is ruined. It's like there's no end to it. So then your whole day is ruined because you're worried about how you've played. You go over that shot, that shot, that shot, that shot. 32:50.07 Graeme McCubbin And then you go home and then family life suffers because you're so you're worried about golf. And then we got to that point where it's like, we don't want to care about that. We want people to enjoy themselves. 33:01.23 Graeme McCubbin Walk off with a smile on their face. Get a little bit of history and play courses that people would naturally not gravitate towards. There's only one person in this trip who's played the course we were at today and that's because he's a member there. So everybody else was experiencing something completely new today and then tomorrow there's only a couple of people who've played Southerness where we're heading. 33:24.47 Graeme McCubbin I grew up in that area so I've played it. Kenny's played it and I think one or two other people have played it. And then Lanark, 90% of the people had never played Lanark before. And this is a trip where we just want to bring as many people together, have everybody staying here in this. 33:41.25 Graeme McCubbin I couldn't believe it when we got here, into this manor house, which is ludicrous. bonkers. And everybody's in the same place. Because if you go to a hotel, you're separated. 33:51.97 Graeme McCubbin You're segregated. You can disappear and do your own thing. Whereas with this... It's not forced, but if you want to come in and partake in a barbecue or you want to partake in watching football, which but a lot of people are doing right now, it's a group gathering and everybody's meeting and mingling. And we've got Canadians, we've got Germans, we've got French, we've got Americans. There's a lot of people here from all walks of life who just love golf. 34:19.55 Graeme McCubbin And effectively, that's what it is at the end of the day. We want people who love golf to just to come and enjoy it with us and experience Golf, The Links Diary, which is what we're trying to create. 34:32.94 ModGolfPodcast And one thing I love about what you're doing here to extend that experience beyond the golf course is to create this community, not only in this house, which is crazy. You can get lost in this place. There's 16 bedrooms. So there's 14 of us, the four co-founders, you guys and 10 guests here, but we could easily have doubled that. And perhaps next year, if you do it again, and we're at a different manor house, three different courses. And hopefully I get invited back again to speak at the conference in Belfast and myself and maybe some Canadian friends can join in. But what i really love is the fact you're creating community. Kenny you were hard at work you made a fantastic flat white for me this morning. Thank you for that! It was handcrafted and delicious. You're getting us together for breakfast and then we're traveling together before the round and then afterwards together as a group. Tomorrow we're having a barbecue and there's just that sense of community. And even though we're all guys here, 14 of us, I'm sure if there were women that wanted to come on this trip, there's more than enough room to feel welcome and to feel safe that hopefully next year you have at least a couple of women. So we're really encouraging a group of women to come and join us for the next Links Diary event. 35:49.90 Kenny Pallas We actually had an event at Panmure, the Hogan one that Graeme was talking about. And there was a woman who's a member of Panmure who got in touch. She had heard about it. She was having some friends up that day and she said, "can we join"? 36:02.85 Kenny Pallas And we said, "absolutely!" And she did join. So that was great to have them that day. But to the community thing and to the size of the event, we are really careful to keep them small. 36:15.76 Kenny Pallas Double would be okay, but we don't want 150 people. We want it to be proper conversations, proper connections. And like Graeme said a minute ago, that if you happen to be in New Brunswick and Jim's there, then you can hit him up and maybe get a game of golf with him. And that's what it's all about. 36:33.37 Kenny Pallas And one memory I've got from our second event, so the Lost Links last year. I was in the car park, so we went to look at an abandoned golf course that James Braid designed on Holy Island. 36:49.23 Kenny Pallas Jamie diligently went out the night before and mapped out where he thought the course was. And it turned out that one of the people that came that day was a member of the James Braid Historical Society. So all of a sudden, Jamie felt the pressure. 37:02.32 Kenny Pallas Have I mapped it properly? And Simon, to his credit, I think he would have been critical, but he actually just said, "you know, I think you've done this really well." But it was with Simon, so we did that, and then we went to Goswick for a game, which I suppose isn't too far from here. 37:18.92 Kenny Pallas I was in the car park, changing my shoes. Simon was in his car, and he said, "you've brought together a lot of really good people for this event." I said, "thank you very much. That means a lot." 37:31.23 Kenny Pallas I said, "but golf kind of does that, doesn't it?" And he turned around and he said, "no, the kind of golf you promote does that." And I still get chills when he said that because it's exactly the reaction that we want from the events that we do. 37:47.10 ModGolfPodcast Well, that's got to feel great knowing you're making that impact. Yes, this is a business for you guys. And hopefully all four of you can work full time on this very soon as you continue to grow here. But the fact you are making that social connection, and that's got to feel great. And I know on the podcast, that's one of the pillars that I have, one of the motivations. And yes, this is part of what I do for a living. 38:07.25 ModGolfPodcast But the connectivity that I have that golf which i never grew up with as I have only really been playing for the last five or six years taking it seriously. I'm not being hyperbolic when i say this: it has transformed my life just as far as those connections I've made. You both know that i do a lot of work in the men's mental health space back in Canada supporting one of the biggest men's mental health platforms called Heads Up Guys. And how golf then allows for charity fundraisers at tournaments through them. And it just keeps giving back and giving back. And events like this, I have to thank both of you and also Stuart and Jamie in the other room here. It's all four of you putting this together because we have guys sitting around here and if there were women here too, we would all be in conversation. You're knocking down the barriers of loneliness and bringing people together. And we all have this common bond around golf, whether we're very average like me, Graeme, haven't seen you swing a club yet. So I can't make any judgments. 39:06.44 ModGolfPodcast I have seen you swing a club. I'm still perplexed out here, Kenny. So hopefully tomorrow I'll get a better sample set and get a ah better read on you, but it just brings us together in the stories. Like the story of you topping that ball at the first tee, that's better than if you would have it straight, striped it in the middle of the fairway, that that would have been kind of average and regular. 39:25.45 ModGolfPodcast Okay, to finish up here, i do want to get a bit of a teaser for issue 12 that's coming out. Is there anything that you can say to whet the appetite for our listeners here? Is there any teaser or is it fully on confidential lockdown right now? 39:47.39 Graeme McCubbin I know Jim's done another story for us on a Sandy Wilson, that's it the name, it evaded me there for a second. 40:12.53 Graeme McCubbin So he's done a an article on him, who I think he's 86. set And he still plays three rounds of golf. And the community that he has at Dunaverty Golf Club, and it's all about that. And they've got the headbangers. So they've got this society, and he's part of it. And they go out and play every week, and they go on tours and do all this stuff. And this guy's 86, and he lives literally a stone's throw from the first tee at Dunaverty. And He cycles his bike around the town and he just goes and plays golf. And it's all about that community. 40:46.27 Graeme McCubbin And if you're of a certain age, if you're alone, like you were talking about, bringing these people into the community and giving them something to do, giving them a group of people to be friendly with. And everybody looks out for him because he's an older gentleman who is of that age where you never know what's going to happen and what's around the corner. And from young to old everybody's all part of this group and it's fascinating to see and Jim's article. It is fantastic and it brings that to life and I was lucky enough to get to go and do the photos for it. 41:33.09 Kenny Pallas I would say Jim, I love his writing. Jim's one of these guys that, and we were talking about it in the car this morning, but he writes in a really simplistic way. 41:44.02 Kenny Pallas He doesn't overcomplicate it and he makes it so approachable that you can imagine sort of everything he's writing about. Even more so if you've played the course, so with Dunaverty then it's going to be even easier. 41:56.25 Kenny Pallas One guy that writes for us quite regularly is Reese he's from New Zealand and he writes fictional stuff for us and he's got one called The Missing Wedge coming. Reese's stuff just goes a little bit off the wall and there there's a bit tongue-in-cheek and they're pretty funny and Reese is a brilliant guy so every article he's done has been excellent. I would look out for The Missing Wedge in the next one. Yes, we have a volume 12 coming out very soon. 42:46.35 ModGolfPodcast So, okay as we finish up here, our listeners are like this Links Diary. I've got to find out more and you've got merchandise. Now you've got merchandise here behind us in the other room. You've got hats, you've got ties, you've got head covers, you've got towels, you've got all kinds of great stuff there, which you can also get in your store online. But I'll hand it back over to you, Graeme. Why don't you let our listeners know where they can find out more about you guys, any social media. I know you're on one place particular. I'll let you tell that. 42:57.03 ModGolfPodcast And also the website, how they can have a look. And I will, in the show notes, include a link for that, make it nice and easy for you listeners. So yeah, let us know, Graeme. 43:14.45 Graeme McCubbin Yeah, Instagram is our main social media. We use Instagram and Twitter, so it's at The Links Diary. Simple as that. You can find us there, the Linksdiary.com for our website. We've got stuff on there and sign up. You can buy individual issues or you can be a member. And if you become a member, everything happens nice and seamlessly. It's always delivered to your door. 43:31.30 Graeme McCubbin And there's perks to being a member as well. You get discounts and find out about these trips before anybody else, then you get to book but in advance, which is a little a nice additive. The people who are members get the opportunity to to jump on the events before we make them public. 43:50.37 Graeme McCubbin And yeah, I don't know if Kenny's got anything to add to that. 43:55.52 Kenny Pallas No, just to say that we hope that we can bring a bit of quality to people's golfing experience and a bit of timelessness. And especially through those winter months in Canada, for example, when you can't get on a golf course, you can sit down, turn on a light and just hopefully transport yourself into these links stories and feel like you're there for a while. 44:19.27 Graeme McCubbin Also our YouTube, I forgot YouTube, The Links Diary. yeah We've started making short films. So if you want to escape the normal world of golf and watch us bring the stories to life through a different medium. 44:37.87 Graeme McCubbin Our recent one with The Long and Winding Road, with Jim Hartzell, have a box of tissues at the side ready for that one if you're gonna watch it as a poignant watch and yeah that's that's where you can find us and thank you very much Colin. 45:10.22 ModGolfPodcast There we go. Well I love what you guys are doing and that's the the beauty of this network. Now having met you guys and i feel I'm part of The Links Diary family and hopefully you guys feel you're part of the ModGolf family because we're all connected. We're not competing. The work that we're doing here together. The stories we love to tell. 45:23.36 ModGolfPodcast I know they resonate with the feedback I get. You've had that positive feedback too. And we know we're not curing cancer here, but we are impacting lives in a positive way. 45:33.82 ModGolfPodcast And I want to thank you guys for that and thank both of you for, for joining me today on The ModGolf Podcast. 45:42.29 Graeme McCubbin Thanks very much Colin for having us on the ModGolf Podcast and I can't wait for everybody to hear it. 45:53.35 Kenny Pallas Thanks Colin. Been a pleasure and hopefully I hit it better for you tomorrow to get a read on my game.