00;00;02;07 - 00;00;09;25 00;00;09;27 - 00;00;49;20 Deborah Waxman I'm Rabbi Deborah Waxman, and I am so happy to welcome you to Hashivenu a podcast about Jewish teachings on resilience. I'm also so happy to welcome my guest, Rabbi Elliott Tepperman. Elliot is a friend and a former classmate, a colleague, and at this moment, perhaps most significantly, my successor. And this is the final episode of how they do as I finish up my presidency, my leadership of reconstructing Judaism. 00;00;49;22 - 00;00;55;19 Deborah Waxman It just feels so perfect to have you on Elliot as the final guest. Welcome. 00;00;55;21 - 00;01;01;21 Elliott Tepperman Thank you. It's such a honor to be joining you for this conversation. 00;01;01;24 - 00;01;10;27 Deborah Waxman And this is your third time. Actually, you know, I think you are going to go down as the most, frequent guest on the 60 plus episodes that we've recorded. 00;01;11;00 - 00;01;23;29 Elliott Tepperman Well, that's important to me because I always like to win. So I didn't know I was in a competition, but it's pretty great that it turns out that I won it, so that's great. 00;01;24;02 - 00;01;50;27 Deborah Waxman It's the hottest competition around. So, just, this feels so special to me to have this opportunity to sit with you in a kind of an extended, conversation to talk about what brought you you you and I have had many, many conversations offline, and I'm really happy to have this conversation, with others listening in about please tell, tell, touch. 00;01;50;27 - 00;02;10;05 Deborah Waxman Now, share how it is that you came to, discern that you wanted to step into this, this role, which is like, it's so extraordinary. It is so full of blessing. It is so full of opportunities. Also very hard. And and I'm so grateful that you made this decision. Can you share more about it? 00;02;10;07 - 00;02;46;07 Elliott Tepperman Well, it's a big question indeed. And, I can start by just saying that I have felt like all of my rabbinate has been shaped by, my predecessors who have, helped build the Reconstructionist movement. I am really humbled to know that I'm going to be walking into your office, into a building where, some of the people who were my most beloved teachers are, in fact, still teaching and still building our movement together. 00;02;46;09 - 00;03;22;05 Elliott Tepperman I. Think that we have an extraordinary movement, and I think that I feel called to do everything I can to amplify our movement. And if you've been a reconstructionist for even a little while, you kind of get tired of explaining it to people, right? Or being called like the littlest stream of the streams, you know, or you know, and and I don't know what's possible, but I know that I want more people to know what we're about. 00;03;22;07 - 00;03;50;08 Elliott Tepperman And I don't only want that to be true so that I can stop answering that question. I want it to be true because I think that if the American Jewish community and for that matter, the world Jewish community, could name the powerful parts of reconstruction ism and the way they are shaping their Jewish life, even in this moment, that they would actually that we all would actually be living a more profound, more vibrant Jewish life. 00;03;50;08 - 00;04;08;23 Elliott Tepperman And so I feel a hope that, the way that I have received from reconstructing Judaism and from the reconstruction movement, that I might be able to, bring that same kind of gift, that same kind of opportunity, to the broader Jewish world. 00;04;08;26 - 00;05;00;18 Deborah Waxman That's so moving, and resonates so deeply. And I felt a calling as well, very much along those lines. And I hope that I have taken us further down that path, and I cannot wait to see. I hope and I hope that you're exponentially more successful than I was in making that case, because I, I agree completely that it's so, empowering and nurturing and, sustaining in times of joy and in difficult times, this approach and, and how it gets lived out and the space for diversity and the the embrace of complexity and, and I just, I just, I don't, I don't know that we will ever be large in terms of 00;05;00;18 - 00;05;13;23 Deborah Waxman numbers because it does take a lot of work to be a reconstructionist. I do hope that the, that you will continue to grow the influence and the understanding and the impact of, of of reconstruction as a. 00;05;13;25 - 00;05;32;10 Elliott Tepperman I think that it's, it's a harder time to be a Jew than I thought it was going to be when I graduated rabbinical school. And, I think that a lot of people who are really struggling with what it means to be Jewish, and I don't think that struggle is enough. 00;05;32;12 - 00;05;32;21 Deborah Waxman Yeah. 00;05;32;21 - 00;06;03;19 Elliott Tepperman So I think that we need sort of two things simultaneously. I think one is we need to feel a sense of landing in communities that are welcoming, that are filled with love and that are fuel filled with ruach, with spirit and with energy. I think that anybody who walks into a Reconstructionist community ought to feel both a sense of welcome, but also a sense of being invigorated, whether it's intellectually or on a spiritual level. 00;06;03;21 - 00;06;34;15 Elliott Tepperman It's as a rabbi had they catch it. It's been very important to me that, we have a community that's filled with song and laughter every much as, every bit as much as with, intellectual vigor and curiosity. So that's sort of like one end of the spectrum. The other end of the spectrum is, I think that for all the, good fortune that many Jews have had in the United States, there's still a lot of suffering that's going on. 00;06;34;16 - 00;07;00;20 Elliott Tepperman There's a lot of anxiety and worry, and I want us to build a movement where we have the power to address those things. So something that I'm hoping we can do is, is amplify yet again to yet another level of even higher impact. Even, you know, even more punching above our weight, so that we can meet the needs and the interests of our members. 00;07;00;20 - 00;07;18;23 Elliott Tepperman And, and again, I think that that's the kind of thing that if we do that well, it's inevitable that we will be serving not only our own members, but that we will be serving the broader Jewish people. And and I can't imagine a way that we're not doing that, where we're not actually doing something that would actually benefit the rest of the world at the same time. 00;07;18;29 - 00;07;48;15 Deborah Waxman Yeah. I it's so powerful. I, I'm so, I don't mean to be Pollyanna ish or simplistic, but there's such an epidemic of isolation. There's so there's there's there's there's suffering is on so many levels. Some of it feels self-inflicted to me in this resolute, almost death grip on individualism at the expense of the well-being that we know. 00;07;48;15 - 00;08;24;09 Deborah Waxman Community can offer. And and I think that Judaism writ large is incredibly, has is incredibly important Torah to teach, like, as a pre-modern, religion. And I think what what part of what is so extraordinary about a reconstructionist approach is a very modern, a very postmodern way of drawing on ancient Jewish wisdom, ancient Jewish, teachings and practices in a way that really works for the for the moment and in a way that really, lifts us all up. 00;08;24;11 - 00;08;51;17 Elliott Tepperman Yeah. I think the, the conundrum about individualism is quite challenging. I think that, you know, for all of our discussion of what makes reconstruction ism unique, in particular, when you compare it to either Conservative or Reformed Judaism, I think what is shared by those movements, and frankly, I think by a lot of Orthodox, you know, adherents as well, is that people are really making a lot of individual choices, and they're really living a lot of their Jewish life by themselves based on what just feels right to them. 00;08;51;17 - 00;09;27;04 Elliott Tepperman And, and, I don't quite know, despite having some successes, I think, how we move to from that individualistic, Interaction with Judaism to something that is built more around a sense of communal covenant and I do think that reconstruction ism has been has made many, many, meaningful movements in there, and that even being able to frame it that way is part of the process of bringing people along. 00;09;27;06 - 00;09;54;22 Elliott Tepperman And it's been one of our successes. I think our focus on democracy, our focus on, you know, being of the Jewish people, has had a tremendous impact. And, and I think that folks actually need it ten times that level of impact, for the kind of alienation and loneliness and, and, and anxiousness that is, quite present in a lot of people's lives right now. 00;09;54;25 - 00;10;33;05 Deborah Waxman I really agree, we jumped really quickly into, into, you know, really meaty stuff, which is, one of the great blessings of being a rabbi enemy. Is that you? Like, if you like the weight weighty, heavy stuff. There's there's there's lots of opportunity. I was so moved at the beginning when you talked about the quote that you expressed for the people who preceded you, and I can't wait for you to meet the people who are here at the college, the rabbinical students and the new faculty who you didn't study with, like it's extraordinary people who make up the larger Reconstructionist movement, you get an incredible concentration of them, with the people who 00;10;33;05 - 00;10;58;27 Deborah Waxman are employed by the reconstruction, the college and the and reconstructing Judaism. You talked about feeling a sense of calling, which I also I don't believe in a personal God. And I felt called to apply to rabbinical school, and I felt a call to apply for this position. I'm curious, do you want to tell the story of, like, how you chose, how you became, how you came to R.C. and a little bit more about the calling you needed to apply for this for this job. 00;10;59;00 - 00;11;22;21 Elliott Tepperman So I I'll tell a couple a little story. So, even though I grew up in a town where there was pretty much just the reform congregation, there were not a lot of Jews. I was the only me and my brother were the only Jewish kids in our elementary school in Fresno, California. And, even when I went to a high school of 2500 kids, there was probably not quite a million of Jews. 00;11;22;23 - 00;11;50;15 Elliott Tepperman And one thing that I was blessed with was this great have arrived that my parents had helped to start, and they practiced a kind of do it yourself Judaism that was so down to earth and so unafraid to get their hands dirty and to try new things, that it just inspired me as a kid. I mean, I didn't even know I was being inspired. 00;11;50;17 - 00;12;10;09 Elliott Tepperman But, my dad tells these stories, you know, he and one of his buddies wanted to make masa for Passover, and they called the rabbi, who was, human, was my dad's rabbi. And, to say, how do we do this? And Zalman initially was like, what are you talking about? You don't make masa, right? Like, even Reb Zalman, you know? 00;12;10;16 - 00;12;11;12 Elliott Tepperman And, 00;12;11;14 - 00;12;13;14 Deborah Waxman You shouldn't have to. Shlomi was your. 00;12;13;16 - 00;12;38;02 Elliott Tepperman Well, my dad would go to. He was my I mean, my we had the rabbi in town, but Zalman was my dad's rabbi, right, right. So, and, yet, you know, we made our own masa, and I have memories being 11 years old and going to members of our have Ra, who had grown wheat in their backyard and cutting that wheat and then winnowing it and then grinding it and then eating it for Passover. 00;12;38;02 - 00;12;38;27 Deborah Waxman Wow. 00;12;38;27 - 00;13;01;02 Elliott Tepperman And it was just a totally different kind of masa. And I'm not saying and it was just it was so hands on. Right. And it was so there was such ownership of the Jewish life that that which was what they were figuring it out, you know, was very much, you know, you can say like they were also practicing something that was passed down to them through, you know, the framers of the Jewish Catalog, you know, I mean, yeah. 00;13;01;02 - 00;13;02;29 Deborah Waxman I, I was just thinking it was like living out the Jewish kids. 00;13;03;00 - 00;13;27;13 Elliott Tepperman Living it out. It was totally, you know, my, you know, and so, so that very much shaped a kind of Jewishness that I kept looking for. And I actually was a little suspicious of the rabbinate growing up because all of the Jewish communities that I had most loved were places that were vibrant, specifically because there was not necessarily a rabbinic figure telling people what to do, but instead Jews figuring it out together. 00;13;27;15 - 00;14;06;04 Elliott Tepperman And I wanted that kind of experience for myself. The other thing that very much shaped my path to the rabbinate was that when I was in college, I got very much involved in various, social justice movements, particularly various efforts to end the proliferation of nuclear weapons, but also, at the time, environmental justice, student rights. I was involved with early iterations of Act Up in Queer Nation, and I loved the kind of passion of putting my body into alignment with my values. 00;14;06;06 - 00;14;27;15 Elliott Tepperman So whether that was through trusting a kind of consensus process, which was what all these organizations did when they tried to make, you know, decisions, or whether that was by engaging in nonviolent direct action and actually like putting my body between the car that was carrying the work or who is going to build a nuclear weapon and the gate where they could do that. 00;14;27;17 - 00;15;11;00 Elliott Tepperman I just it became a spiritual path for me. But as powerful as an experience it was, every so often that path would intersect with my Judaism. And then things just fell on fire and I just felt such alignment. So just, you know, I remember with extraordinary clarity being in these activist households and doing Shabbat dinners with folks who weren't Jewish and didn't know from Judaism, and yet they got Shabbat right, or having Passover seders where the the liberation that we were talking about and that we were originally reenacting felt so alive because it was intersecting with our experiences. 00;15;11;00 - 00;15;40;16 Elliott Tepperman Activists trying to repair the world. And, you know, my path to becoming a rabbi was just trying to search for a way that I could live both of those things out at the same time. And to do it anchored in community. And yeah, I've been pretty lucky. I was I wasn't sure how it was going to work out when I entered rabbinical school, but I in fact have been I have felt quite, blessed by what this what this choice is allowed for me. 00;15;40;18 - 00;16;11;12 Deborah Waxman You just described the journey that so many of our rabbinical students, like we have a very high concentration of activists in the rabbinical, in the rabbinical school, and many of them described the same thing, like when. So when you and I were in school, we overlapped, it for several years, and I some of the changes that have happened is that, like, you know, the like I was not alone in coming out of a pretty deeply Jewish conservative background. 00;16;11;12 - 00;16;27;26 Deborah Waxman And many of our students, came to their Judaism through their activism, came to it through that the fire that you just described and then this recognition that they wanted to deepen it, they wanted to deepen it for themselves, and they wanted to be able to offer it. They want to be able to offer it to other people. 00;16;27;26 - 00;16;53;22 Deborah Waxman And just a hashi they know. Note one of the things that really, excited me about using the lens of resilience to talk about Judaism was working with the Jewish social justice sector, significantly through the Jewish Social Justice Roundtable, because I would meet people who were working for these Jewish organizations because they were Jewish. But if you ask them why, that was as far as they could go. 00;16;53;22 - 00;17;35;06 Deborah Waxman Oh, there's something about my Judaism. But they they had no access to it and that they had a lot of mistrust. And I found that shining the lens of psychology, that it was much easier for them to talk about self-care or psychology as a value, as an authority to say, like, look, psychologists teach that an orientation toward gratitude helps to foster a sense of well-being and then to say, and Judaism, says, let's start every day with a gratitude practice, like they were much more willing to open themselves to the the depth of Jewish wisdom and Jewish practice through the lens of resilience. 00;17;35;06 - 00;17;52;09 Deborah Waxman And my goal was just I wasn't to get them to be more Jewish. It was to get them to be more grounded, and to be, to have rich resources to draw on. And I, you know, just knowing that our ancestors created this incredible storehouse of resources. 00;17;52;12 - 00;18;16;02 Elliott Tepperman I mean, I think that that's quite true, what you're saying. I think that something that I reflect on a lot and that I really didn't know quite what I was getting into when I, when I started rabbinical school is how valuable having a regular prayer practice has been to me, and how valuable it has been to learn about things like meditation or to have the experience of going on retreats. 00;18;16;05 - 00;18;51;01 Elliott Tepperman Or how about how different it feels, when I'm whether it's at my home congregation or at, a reconstructing Judaism convention to be surrounded by a roomful of people who are all joined to joining together in song. I mean that talk about resilience, right? Talk about that is so reviving. It is so energizing. And it is, you know, I've had this one of the things that has happened often as a, as a rabbi is people who are either entering the congregation or trying to figure out a new role in the congregation will come to talk to me about, like, how am I contributing? 00;18;51;01 - 00;19;14;14 Elliott Tepperman Or what is what? What is the way that I can give. And and sometimes I have to remind people, if you are a regular at Shabbat services, you are already contributing, like the power of having a fuller congregation, the power of having another voice, the power of having up the presence of one person who who is either spiritually tuned in, or just who cares about showing up for Shabbat. 00;19;14;16 - 00;19;37;25 Elliott Tepperman It impacts the entire community and and that is, not often measured in the same way that, I don't know what a protest at the local detention center is. Yeah. And I'm not trying to, like, make a judgment about which one is more important. I'm simply saying that actually, they are interdependent. 00;19;37;27 - 00;19;38;07 Deborah Waxman Yes. 00;19;38;07 - 00;19;46;08 Elliott Tepperman And our ability to show up and do hard things is not unrelated to having a place where we can, fill up the tank. 00;19;46;10 - 00;20;08;03 Deborah Waxman It's so great. I mean, like, sometimes we talk about, like, tikkun, tikkun olam, antico nefesh, like, I, I feel like you can't show up. I look, I know this from personal experience. When I'm utterly depleted, I have less to offer. And I have so much more to offer. The Reconstructionist movement in the Jewish world. And I've got to build myself up a little bit. 00;20;08;03 - 00;20;20;00 Deborah Waxman And my, you and I have talked offline about, I really one of my blessings and hopes for you is that you find ways to make certain that you are filled up as you do this really, really holy and important work. 00;20;20;02 - 00;20;57;12 Elliott Tepperman So yeah, well, I appreciate that encouragement. And, and I think I, I hope I will do it not only to take care of myself and to be, you know, to take care of my family. But I hope that I'll do it as a way of modeling what I think is actually, needed for for everybody. Not that everybody has the freedom to do something like go on a seven day meditation retreat, but it always cracks me up when I'm on, when I come back from a meditation retreat or something like that, how, somebody will say, like at the very next Shabbat services, like, what's happening, Rabbi, like, you were so powerful today or this 00;20;57;12 - 00;21;14;00 Elliott Tepperman was such a great service, you know, and and I, you know, on one hand, I didn't do anything different. It's the exact same service I led, you know, you know, the last time I led services. But on the other hand, what happened is that I had actually a whole week of deepening my own spiritual, sense of connection. 00;21;14;00 - 00;21;29;21 Elliott Tepperman And it just it's just obvious, right? Like, if my job is to be inspirational to this community, I have to be inspired. So those two things are going to always have to be. Yes. Yeah. In relationship to each other. 00;21;29;23 - 00;22;01;12 Deborah Waxman Think I want to ask you about something that I've really been reflecting on so much because you and I started rabbinical school in the 90s, and it was a really different time for individual Jews and for the Jewish community. Large. I think it was a different time for America, a different time for Israel. I tell the story very often that in my first weeks of school in 1993, they wheeled in a television and we watched the signing of the Oslo Accords on the white House lawn. 00;22;01;12 - 00;22;29;06 Deborah Waxman And I was a newcomer to the community, but lots of old timers were saying, pointing out the people they knew who had been involved in the peace, in the peace process and the two state solution for a long time. And I you know, that's not the world we're living in now. And I definitely both. And as a rabbi and as a scholar of American Jewish history for a long time said, you know, like anti-Semitism is nothing. 00;22;29;06 - 00;22;58;01 Deborah Waxman You know, antisemitism plays to anxiety and in such a way that it we don't take advantage of the opportunities that we have. And, that's not the world we're living in now, and that's not the world that, people who are choosing to be rabbis are. And and even in the in the years since I applied in 2013, it's a very different landscape than when you applied for this position in 2026. 00;22;58;01 - 00;23;29;02 Deborah Waxman And it's so amazing to have the experience of years and of God willing, growing in wisdom. And it's really different. And it's really it's really unknown. And I'm just wondering how you how you're bolstering yourself and you've spoken powerfully already about this. If there's if there's more you want to say about what you think the movement reconstruction is, I'm a reconstructionist approach can offer to this moment. 00;23;29;02 - 00;23;39;04 Deborah Waxman And I think I saw a little bit. What do you think rabbis can offer in this moment, along working alongside amazing, empowered laypeople? 00;23;39;06 - 00;24;18;00 Elliott Tepperman Well, I guess I'll start by saying that, I appreciate that kind of retroactive walk down the world of the Rabbinate, past that we both entered, I think, for a lot of my rabbinate, probably all the way up until the, shooting in Pittsburgh at the Tree of Life synagogue. I felt like. It was not my responsibility to spend a lot of time on antisemitism that it often was, pointing us in the wrong direction in terms of what we needed to do to build a meaningful Jewish life. 00;24;18;03 - 00;24;25;10 Elliott Tepperman So and in some ways, I think I still feel that. I mean, I actually think that the opposite of antisemitism is vibrant Judaism. 00;24;25;13 - 00;24;27;20 Deborah Waxman So I completely that's a go. 00;24;27;24 - 00;24;54;21 Elliott Tepperman You know, I think that we have to offer as much as I feel like, I've been shocked that in the years since, since the massacre at the Tree of Life that I find myself on high holidays often talking about antisemitism in a way that I would have made fun of as a rabbinical student. If I knew, I would have said, that's what older rabbis do, but I think we've needed it. 00;24;54;23 - 00;25;32;21 Elliott Tepperman However, I also think that we need more than ever to both be building a Judaism that works for Jews today. You know, antisemitism works to turn our attention away from where we should be focused. Right? That's what is. That's what it how it functions as an entity. You know, that's how scapegoating works. But, you know, we as Jews can't afford to turn our attention only towards antisemitism because then we fail to build the Judaism, which is its own antidote to anti-Semitism and, which is its own reason for continued existence. 00;25;32;21 - 00;25;40;12 Elliott Tepperman Like if there's only so much ism and Judaism isn't vibrant and powerful, then there's a question mark about like, what are we putting all this energy into it for? 00;25;40;14 - 00;25;53;15 Deborah Waxman And I say that, I mean, I think that's true for anything like focus more on the what you're for rather than what you're against in general. And then all the other more so when it's attacks on your very identity and your resistance. 00;25;53;15 - 00;26;20;27 Elliott Tepperman And I think that, you know, I think that the, the move that many people feel of like wanting to like kind of, Turn inward or to, you know, build up the fortress around Judaism. I understand that I'm, I feel, compassion for that feeling. I feel I understand the anxiety that that that drives that. However, I think it's really important for us to remember we are a teeny tiny people. 00;26;20;29 - 00;26;42;09 Elliott Tepperman We are a teeny tiny people. And the there's just no path to keeping ourselves safe that we can do by ourselves, right? So we have to somehow find a way, if we think that our partners who, are fighting for their own liberation, don't understand the kinds of oppression that we are facing, then we have to teach them and we have to find natural reasons to be in coalition with them. 00;26;42;09 - 00;26;55;23 Elliott Tepperman And we have to find, ways to build authentic solidarity based on shared self-interest, because, because we're every other path forward is a very precarious one. 00;26;55;25 - 00;27;15;27 Deborah Waxman I agree, I agree completely, I agree completely, I want to do an asterisk for what you just said. Because I agree with you that 2018 was a real turning point. And the events in, in late October of 2018, in Pittsburgh was a real turning point. And the colloquium, the colloquial way of talking about it in the American Jewish community is Tree of Life. 00;27;15;29 - 00;27;42;19 Deborah Waxman And it was a that's a campus, where there were three synagogues, three communities meeting, including a Reconstructionist community, Dor Hadash, and in fact, it was Dor Hadash that the, you know, the shooter was, the breaking point, he reported, was because he read about, solidarity with refugees. The point you were just making through HIAs is refugee Shabbat. 00;27;42;19 - 00;28;00;28 Deborah Waxman And it was Dor Hadash that was, the three congregations. It was Dor Hadash that was, in in was was the one that was marking. Thank God not that morning. They had done it the week before, for a variety of reasons. And they were they had had a huge community celebration the night before with 150 people present. 00;28;01;01 - 00;28;26;00 Deborah Waxman And the, shooter didn't know that many Jews start late. So they were just setting up for a study session. When I, reflect on resilience, I'm in the process of curating some of my writing, and I am really aware of that. I hold up and from a community place, I hold up the congregation, the community that is Door Hadash as an example of incredible resilience. 00;28;26;02 - 00;28;53;23 Deborah Waxman I was there the day after the shooting that, they they only had three people on site and, two of whom were healers and caretakers. One was, doctor Jerry Rabinowitz, who, tragically was killed. Another was Desmond Leisure, who is a nurse chaplain. And the to the third person fled, which was the very, very same thing to do. 00;28;53;23 - 00;29;31;10 Deborah Waxman And these two healers ran toward to help. And Dan was grievously injured, and I and the community was really so shattered by that attack, and I it's the congregation that I think I have, visited, if not the most, then as much as any other congregation. And their resilience and their refusal, their capacity to make sense as much as it's ever possible of such a tragedy, and also to not be set in amber around that tragedy, has, has been, a source of constant inspiration for me. 00;29;31;13 - 00;29;42;01 Deborah Waxman And their growth, although other ways that they have moved on, even as obviously it will never so it's it's it's it's, 00;29;42;04 - 00;30;07;04 Deborah Waxman How how terrible and how how beautiful, like, it's all so tied up. It's also bound together. And what and what was I when I went to them on October 28th? I joined a community meeting. And, you know, what are the words that you say at a moment like that? And I quoted a congregational president from one of our congregations in, in, Sonoma County. 00;30;07;04 - 00;30;38;06 Deborah Waxman Then she had said, we are all Dor Hadash today. And it was her her tremendous empathy was born out. She had moved out to California because she had been at the World Trade Center on October and September 11th. So like this, just the weaving together of, that, that to me, the, what it means to be the interconnections that you were talking about, to be part of a larger movement and to be able to, 00;30;38;09 - 00;30;47;10 Deborah Waxman Hopefully we're coming through for each other in times of joy and also absolute to come through for each other in these hardest possible moments. 00;30;47;12 - 00;31;21;24 Elliott Tepperman Yeah. I mean, I don't I don't know that we knew we were going to go down this path when we began this conversation, but I can't I think that one thing that is, helped me to feel a sense of safety and help me to have trust in the future of Jewish life in America is that after the events you were just describing at the Tree of Life, when we hosted our own community gathering, there were Muslims and there were Christians of multiple multiple races in multiple denominations who chose to stand with us and who made clear that we stand together. 00;31;21;26 - 00;32;03;17 Elliott Tepperman And and I think it's important for me to say, because I know this wasn't everybody's experience. And but I think that the fact that we had strong interfaith relationships also changed our experience. Immediately following October 7th, on the first Shabbat after October 7th, or maybe it was the second, I can't remember now. We had again, members of non-Jewish clergy, you know, we had Unitarians and we had Baptists, and we had Muslims who stood outside of our congregation and welcomed every single person as they walked in the door to say, you know, we understand that you're in pain and we are standing with you at this moment, and I simply will never forget that, 00;32;03;20 - 00;32;31;29 Elliott Tepperman you know, and some of those were built out of our many, many decades of relationship. And some of those were random individuals who who chose to stand with us on, on that day because they, they could feel our pain. I think we want to build the opportunity for that to happen more and more. I want to just acknowledge, too, especially for people who didn't have that experience after October 7th, that there were also colleagues who didn't show up that day. 00;32;32;01 - 00;32;48;04 Elliott Tepperman And some of those, though what happened is I said to them, hey, we need you. And then they found a way to show up. So like, that's part of the nature of the relationship that that I was able to say to people that we had enough relationship for me to say, you might not have noticed or you might not have thought about it. 00;32;48;04 - 00;33;01;24 Elliott Tepperman Exactly. I know I've missed the boat sometimes of standing with you in your community. This is a moment when we need you to stand with us and to see them then say, I apologize and how can I show up? And then to find a way to show up, you know, the next appropriate opportunity. 00;33;01;28 - 00;33;31;15 Deborah Waxman It's such a testament to your community. It's a such a testament to your leadership of that community. And it is so important and inspiring to me that it's what you're bringing to the leadership of the movement at this time. I think it's I agree completely with your analysis and, and, and I think it's the only path forward. And I can't wait to learn from you more and more how to do this and to support you in those efforts. 00;33;31;18 - 00;34;02;09 Deborah Waxman I have an eye on the clock, and I think we have to wind down. Oh. Which is a big winding down. This has been actually venue has been such a joy for me in the the creation of the podcast and in the conversations I've been able to have. And in the partnership with Sam Wax, who's is sitting opposite me and Elliot, I'll share with you that one of the things that I've loved the most about it is, like, I always feel like I'm in the role of student here. 00;34;02;09 - 00;34;29;27 Deborah Waxman Like the so often as the leader, you know? I mean, I've always tried to lead with humility and with a real orientation toward, partnership. But in this space, I've always felt like I'm a student and I've just had such amazing teachers, and conversation partners, in, in this, in this, joyful undertaking. And I'm so I'm thrilled that you are the that you won the competition. 00;34;29;29 - 00;35;12;27 Deborah Waxman You were the most frequent guest. And I am thrilled to be able to continue that that, this relationship and that that stance of of learning, with and from you going forward. I just wish you so, so much, like, so much strength, so much connection. I hope that you, I really, I hope that you are able to, to live out and continue the great practices that you've been to place about self-care and that you you are able to achieve this, the the exponential impact and that there's so much joy and so much learning along the way. 00;35;12;27 - 00;35;34;00 Deborah Waxman And I am so, so honored to be, you know, walking that I've walked this part ahead of you and that these, these last couple weeks walked alongside you. And I can't wait to, you know, to to cheer loudly. You know, in whatever role you would want me to play. Just, so many blessings and so much gratitude. 00;35;34;02 - 00;36;00;26 Elliott Tepperman Well, I hope you'll let me just say that I. I've so benefited from our conversations, and you know that I always come away with a greater understanding of the world we live in. But also just, the way you ask questions and the kind of curiosity that you've brought to this podcast has often awakened in me, understanding and ideas about my own practice and my own vision that I didn't know I had until you asked. 00;36;00;29 - 00;36;40;19 Elliott Tepperman I feel, I think I mirrored the kinds of things you've said to me in terms of the gratitude I feel for the way you've brought that, not only to the conversations we've had publicly, but to, the work we've done together as collaborators, to build our movement over the last decades. And I feel so fortunate that, that I'm going to be able to walk in your footsteps and that the path that I'm going to be, picking up is going to be one that has been filled by the kind of energy and enthusiasm and curiosity and intellectual integrity, that you have brought to our movement. 00;36;40;22 - 00;37;03;29 Deborah Waxman Thank you. Thank you. And I want to, thank you, Sam, once again for just setting a joyous partnership. It's just always been so much fun. And every time achievement has been on my when I've looked at my very busy calendar and said, oh, great week, I get to sit with Sam and whoever the amazing guest is. And to everybody listening, thank you, thank you. 00;37;03;29 - 00;37;39;04 Deborah Waxman It's on the one hand, it's quirky to just be sitting in some space, usually my office, sometimes from the road, and have a conversation. And it's been extraordinary to have people come up to me or send me emails saying, you know, thank you for allowing us inviting us into the conversation. So, to everyone, just, may you go from strength to strength to strength and I'll say, leader out until the next time I will sign off. 00;37;39;04 - 00;37;50;17 Deborah Waxman Now, I am Rabbi Deborah Waxman, and you've been listening to the new Jewish teachings on resilience. 00;37;50;20 - 00;38;05;22 I see you made new, and lives and then the silver, since you've been on the other side, I think.