Fanshen Cox DiGiovanni "One Drop of Love" [MUSIC] Hello. And welcome to Mindful U at Naropa. A podcast presented by Naropa University in Boulder, Colorado. I'm your host David Devine. And it's a pleasure to welcome you. Joining the best of Eastern and Western educational traditions -- Naropa is the birthplace of the modern mindfulness movement. [MUSIC] [00:00:44.13] David: Hello. Today I'd like to welcome a very special guest to the Naropa community and to the podcast. Fanshen Cox DiGiovanni. She is an actor, educator, writer, and producer and is currently touring with her one woman show, One Drop of Love. She is also here at Naropa being the Bayard and John Cobb Peace Lecturer so thank you for speaking with us for today. [00:01:07.05] Fanshen Cox DiGiovanni: You're welcome. Thanks for having me. [00:01:09.04] David: Yeah, so how are you feeling today? [00:01:10.12] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Uh -- [00:01:11.13] David: Check in. Say hi. [00:01:11.23] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: I would have to say I am feeling wonderful. I have had now three days in this community and itÕs been so welcoming and loving and I feel like everyone I have spoken to or come in contact with has this goal of goodness. LAUGHS. And itÕs beautiful. So, yes. [00:01:36.04] David: Fun. [00:01:37.02] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Yeah, really fun. Really fun. [00:01:38.23] David: Spring is here. [00:01:40.18] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: And itÕs beautiful today. ItÕs nice outside. I have the pleasure of seeing sun and rain and snow all within a span of like 20 minutes and that was interesting. [00:01:52.11] David: Sounds like Colorado. [00:01:53.07] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Yes. [00:01:54.08] David: Awesome. Well we are so happy to have you here. [00:01:56.09] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Thank you. [00:01:56.11] David: So, you performed your show yesterday for the community and itÕs called One Drop of Love. And I am curious how did that go for you. It seems as though you have been touring the show for a bit and I am just kind of curious - how do you feel like the Naropa community received your show. [00:02:10.23] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: They were so mean. [00:02:12.03] David: Oh! [00:02:13.05] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: LAUGHS. Not at all. [00:02:15.09] David: Liar. I was there. [00:02:16.04] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: You were. Yeah, I have been doing it for 5 years. And you know I have been in a lot of different communities. I think some certainly more receptive to the themes around kind of race and racism and class and gender. Uh more receptive than others, but I - I had the sense after being here for a day that this might be a very embracing community and that's exactly what it was, but really something that I really appreciated about it was the interaction. Kind of the vocal interaction, which I don't always get. Uh - sometimes I think you know people feel uncomfortable or they're like I am in a theater. I am not sure and when Naropa was just right there along with me laughing out loud and you know saying mmmm you know and just calming response. [00:03:03.01] David: We're a mmm type of crowd. [00:03:05.09] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: You are. [00:03:05.18] David: Or like finger snapping sort of a - and I was actually working the camera at the show because I do all the media stuff here as well. Oh man, I had to follow you the whole time. You were cruising around the space. It was really beautiful. I loved the interaction too. I loved how you integrated the crowd. It felt more engaging to the show and you felt a part of it - so -- [00:03:27.23] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Oh, thank you. That was really important to me when I was developing it was -- that I didn't want anyone to feel like they were just passively sitting back and watching a show. I wanted everyone to understand that we're all complicit in this in race and racism and therefore we all have to be involved in it. And its dismantling. [00:03:50.12] David: Like whether you like it or not we're subjected to race. [00:03:52.22] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Exactly. [00:03:52.22] David: And so - so here we are just all learning together. Cool. So, speaking of the development of the show - can you tell me a bit about the process of the story development. How did you come to this place of doing this work? Where did the idea come from and itÕs such a cool show that like how did it birth? [00:04:10.21] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Well, yeah so, I tell - when people ask me how long did it take you to write it - I say 48 years. Because that's how long I've been on this earth and - [00:04:19.03] David: That's a long time. [00:04:19.20] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: ItÕs a really long time. And you plant seeds along the way, right? And you - because I knew I wanted to be a performer and eventually started to realize that I would be a writer also - I had really kept a lot of journals growing up and really always anytime I kind of had an idea that I thought might someday go into some kind of show - I'd write it down. But then in 2013 I got my MFA and so I - there is -- [00:04:49.05] David: Where did you get that at? [00:04:49.05] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: California State University Los Angeles. [00:04:52.04] David: Oh from L.A. -- word. [00:04:53.21] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Yeah. Are you from L.A.? [00:04:55.06] David: Yeah. [00:04:55.23] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Nice! Really. Born and raised? [00:04:58.03] David: Yep. 26 years and then moved here to go to the little Buddhist college. [00:05:03.05] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Where in L.A. did you grow up? [00:05:04.10] David: Outskirts of L.A. -- Simi Valley but I had like - did a lot of work in L.A. and I was just like all -- well, we're talking about you. [00:05:11.00] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Well, I know - like music people that makes so much sense to me too that you were there anyway. Awesome. I want to know more. [00:05:18.13] David: Ok. Totally. [00:05:20.17] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Yeah, so Cal State L.A. which is a great MFA program. Now that I have seen Naropa's - I will say Naropa's is awesome too. But -- but I love the demographics there as you know L.A. is a very diverse city. That school in particular attracts you know diverse around socioeconomic -- resources - it just was a wonderful campus. So, in 2012 I had to declare what my thesis would be and -- [00:05:47.13] David: Uh oh. [00:05:47.13] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Exactly. I was like what am I - and I - and I just - at the time I was telling people I want to do a show about -- fathers whose children identify differently racially than they do. [00:06:03.13] David: Whoa. [00:06:03.21] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: And I always was curious about that. I had - I was doing a lot of work in mixed communities. People who identify as mixed and kind of want to come together but there were a lot of women there and a lot of mother's that were helping to organize those communities and not a lot of dad's and so I thought that would be interesting and I had told my friend about it and my friend said well what's your relationship like with your dad? And I was like yeah -- exactly. I was like well what do you mean? And then I thought I haven't spoken to my dad in 7 years and then I thought I haven't spoken to my dad because he didn't come to my wedding and then I thought - I haven't spoken to my dad because I married a white man and I think my dad is going to be angry at me for that. So, all these things started to kind of - brew up for me and fortunately I was at that point ready. It wasn't too raw anymore and so I was ready to - to sit down and start writing about it and so that's what became my thesis. [00:06:58.11] David: Wow, that is so powerful to come to a place of - oh wow like loving your parents so deeply enough to show them how to love you back. You know? [00:07:09.06] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: I love that you put it that way. And then yes that - and also my grandmother has this line in the show and she says parents can only give the love they have been taught out to give. Right, and so itÕs that thinking back on what was their history and what happened to them and what were the limitations for them that kept them from loving you. Yeah and so -- [00:07:33.09] David: I have this idea where Naropa taught me how to love my parents more. And so, you know there was this exchange of like saying I love you on the phone that was just so awkward until I moved here and then Naropa just like rip my heart open. They're like do it. And I started doing it and itÕs like when you can show your parents love and what your grandma said is like they can only be shown the love they're given. And so, when the children can show their parents more love the parents are able to receive and to accept that. [00:08:02.11] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Yes! And the people always ask how did - you know how does your family respond to the show and we are closer than we've ever been, and we have those difficult conversations more often - yeah. [00:08:15.07] David: And they are less difficult. And they are less -- [00:08:18.05] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: They get less and less difficult that's right. That's absolutely true. [00:08:21.21] David: And also, when you are able to show up in love and not show up with ego - they are more potent. They get to the point and you know you cry a little, you laugh a little and you just - you just like all right we're family. [00:08:34.07] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Yeah. Absolutely. [00:08:35.14] David: Thanks for sharing. That was so good. So, you said you've been traveling your show for 5 years. I am sure you've been to many different places. Many different scenarios us situations you've been in - communities that you've showcased your show into - how has it been received and what are the various ways its received? And do you have any interesting stories about like anything that came up - you're whoa that's a curveball. I didn't see that coming or - like what is it like? [00:09:03.08] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Yes, definitely. Yeah, its interesting - because the show is so specifically about themes that around social justice, around you know examining race and class and gender - we're very clear that that's what itÕs about. So, we generally know if a place is inviting us to come perform than they know what itÕs about and, but I always find its interesting when the difference once place that say oh we would love for your show to come versus places that say we need your show. And the places that need it - are quite challenging. I mentioned Flagstaff, Arizona in the show because when we did the show there a student got up and just kind of walked out in the middle. [00:09:49.01] David: Which is allowed. [00:09:49.23] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Absolutely. [00:09:50.22] David: But that's their process. [00:09:52.08] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Yes absolutely. It is allowed. And really you know frankly I want people to be that uncomfortable that they want to get up and walk out because its uncomfortable. I don't want anyone to sit there going like - oh what an entertaining piece right. I want you to squirm in your seat and - but walking out I think you know he kind of - he was in the front row. So, I think it was definitely you know I need to tell you how I feel about this. [00:10:18.17] David: Stand up. Be a little bit harder. [00:10:21.04] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Let you know. You know? And then I also did a show for the Naval Academy Prep School in Rhode Island and so that was another really interesting -- uh and challenging performance. Mainly in the Q & A afterwards - just kind of starting to unpack I think really what set off the conflict was the very first question that a student asked was what grade would you give the Navy on diversity? My response was look around the room right now. And ask yourself who is in a position of power. What do the demographics look like at the top of the organization and who is cleaning your bathroom? [00:11:04.09] David: You answered the question with a question. [00:11:05.09] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Exactly. [00:11:05.09] David: I really like that. [00:11:07.09] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: And it was right there in the room. We didn't - you don't have - I don't have to say Google it or research this or look at this data. I just have to look around the room and the answer is right there. And so, I - there was in some cases a similar response to what you are doing like oh wow. But, there was also the administration that felt very uncomfortable. That we were pointing this thing, out right? [00:11:34.17] David: The squirming in the chair. [00:11:35.15] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: It was true. Right? But it was now suddenly talking about it. And that's what the show is about - itÕs like you have to talk about it. You cannot - it cannot just be sitting there on the surface. [00:11:48.19] David: Yeah, and internalized truth is different than the spoken truth amongst a community because then its - itÕs like here it is. You're not running from it. You're just saying what's up. And that's where the work is. [00:12:01.10] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: That is where the work is. Unfortunately, after that one - after I left some fights broke out on the campus. Disagreements and I don't know if they lead to physical fights, but there were definitely - there was conflict. And so, the administration presumed that it was all my fault, right? [00:12:21.17] David: Not fair. [00:12:21.17] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Well those things were there, right? And that was all there. One person for one night is not bringing up things that would lead to fights on your campus. Right? These things have been there, but people didn't have - a voice in them or didn't feel like they could talk about them and now suddenly they could. So that was certainly one of the more challenging -- LAUGHS. Performances we've done. [00:12:49.00] David: I am sure there is a bunch of crazy little stories -- [00:12:51.04] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: But then there is people who kind of like - I did a run in New York recently at Stella Adler and for some reason an audience member walked in like from behind -- LAUGHS - walked - I was like I had started the show and somehow, she got let in from like back stage or - she kind of just walks through and that's always fun because -- [00:13:10.21] David: You're interactive. [00:13:11.10] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Exactly. I built that into the show to be able to be free with that. But you know the most challenging things are when people are not ready to talk about - racism. And talk about the systemic nature of racism that I - I use the census to kind of show to all of us that this is - these are systems. [00:13:32.14] David: To be on a -- I just love to appreciate you for talking about it. That's - that doesn't seem easy to take on. ItÕs probably not easy to listen to either and to be honest it needs to happen for the unconditioning to occur or the condition and to uncondition that. So, thank you for that. [00:13:51.18] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Thank you. [00:13:52.09] David: And you - you just said a little bit about the sense. The senseless applications about race and that was my next question. How did you know that? So, during the show you guide us through a journey of the census and - what box you would check while taking this survey of in what is it - 1920s when it started. [00:14:13.10] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: It was 1790. [00:14:14.03] David: Oh my gosh! [00:14:15.21] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Yes. [00:14:16.18] David: I wasn't even born yet. [00:14:17.19] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: LAUGHS. Neither was I. I don't think anyone on the planet now - right so and that's - I wanted to use this historical context. I didn't want to just tell my own personal story. I think a lot of us make the mistake of presuming that our own personal narrative - our contemporary life and identity is the way the whole rest of the world works. Right? And so, we make choices based on -- I mean I think in our last election I think a lot of people voted the way they did because they were only thinking of themselves. And of their own you know their very kind of like isolated experience. And I want audiences to know that particularly when it comes to race - there is this entire history that has been happening since before 1790, but we begin in the 1790s that really direct our - even our current conversations and our current understandings of who we are. So that's what the sense is kind of acts as that tool to let the audience know. We don't have full control over how we - see ourselves and see others. We've been deeply influenced by these things that happened in the 1700s. [00:15:35.01] David: Yeah, you're just making me think how the census was just an application, so they can determine certain things? Or aspects about people? [00:15:45.03] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: What we -- what we say about the census is that uh - it is to determine number one voting districts and that's really important. That's why one of the reasons why itÕs important - the numbers are important. But also, where resources need to go. That really is kind of one of the things - like we need to know how many people are here and how many - might need welfare for example. And where do we put resources. However - because we've been counting it since 1790 and it still seems cyclical that the same people lack resources. LAUGHS. It doesn't seem to be doing the job that it says its -- [00:16:23.05] David: Hello out there. [00:16:24.15] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: So, I always say you know what they should just add an I am oppressed box to the census. But -- adjust. I mean really what - and I don't know if you've heard that unfortunately our current administration for this year has now added a citizenship question to the census. So, they are now - yes, and for 2020 you are going to have to answer whether or not you are a US citizen. And that's extremely dangerous obviously. So, itÕs been used to manipulate. And as I show in the show from 1790 - every 10 years until 1970 - it was a census taker that would look at you and determine your race. [00:17:12.23] David: I remember you saying that. And you weren't even able to fill it out. And first off there is not - like when it comes to the sense and the race box there isn't enough boxes to fill out - you identify as mixed race. So, like what - where is my box? What do I do? I need multiple boxes. Wait I am not allowed to -- please check one. You know what I mean. [00:17:33.02] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: And in reality, no one really is one because most of the racial categories - we have racial categories that include region and those - if you speak of geographical regions ok. But, a racial category that is just for example the word white or black -- [00:17:51.10] David: What does that mean? [00:17:52.02] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: These were created out of thin air in order to - permanently make a hierarchy of where people fit on this you know - on these power structures. [00:18:04.16] David: It seems like when the census was created it wasn't created to condition people. But it has conditioned people in such a way that is limiting our way of reflecting with each other you know. Like I just want to touch people's soul. Like what color is your soul? You know but we all have colors. [00:18:22.18] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Right, and that's the hard -- [00:18:24.14] David: And that's beautiful. [00:18:24.14] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: It is beautiful. That's the thing is that I think a lot of people made the mistake and certainly and this is kind of I share my life in the 1980s living in Cambridge, Massachusetts which was a very liberal place, very progressive and you know that was kind of like this oh I don't see color and we're really realizing the error in that type of mentality and terminology because color is beautiful. Color is a great thing and color also means if we're talking about black for example, it means resilience. It means joy. It means tradition. So even though it doesn't mean race genetically it does have a meaning. And just like white doesn't mean race genetically but it also has a meaning and those meanings I think we have to really dig and understand them in order to dismantle them. [00:19:18.16] David: Rediscovering our meanings. [00:19:21.06] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Definitely. [00:19:22.09] David: Awesome. So, with your work around race and relationship there was a focus around race and relationships and how the race and relationships show up with each other - how has your definition of race and relationships changed while you've been performing the show doing your research and just kind of moving through the space? [00:19:42.14] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Oh. [00:19:43.13] David: Sorry, that's a big one. [00:19:44.21] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: That is. I am like oh that's going to be my next show - itÕs so good. So -- for myself - there is that kind of internal relationship that I have had around race and in the ways that I identify that allowed me to love myself and do self-care and the ways that I've identified that stood in the way of that. So, I think one of the things and I talk about this in the show is when I first started to identify very strongly as black which was in college I thought that meant I had to perform blackness. [00:20:20.02] David: Was that '93? [00:20:20.19] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: That was in '88. [00:20:24.04] David: Ok. I just remember seeing the dates on the - so this was University of Michigan you know Go Blue. 1988 -- when Charles comes to me and says you know are you joining the Black Student Union. And -- exactly. I was - and I am like no because I am Jamaican, and he is like hmmm. Right? And I really start to learn and embrace my blackness and at the time I thought that in order to embrace blackness I had to act a certain way and I had to dress a certain way and I had to speak a certain way but my own relationship with blackness has now come to a place where I am fully embracing of being black and not needing to do anything on the exterior for that to prove that to somebody else. [00:21:12.16] David: Yeah. [00:21:13.12] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: And including my father which is the show is really about coming to reconcile that relationship. And I felt like my falling in love with and marrying a European man - a white man was - is counter - you know counteracting my love of blackness. And therefore, my father, but I really came to learn during the show that itÕs not these exterior actions or performances. It is about your interior. [00:21:47.19] David: Yeah. The - loving the interior just makes loving the exterior so much easier. That's the center. That is where it starts from and itÕs just like -- comes out from there. And everyone is like oh what are you doing over there. I am loving -- [00:22:02.20] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: You loving yourself over there? [00:22:04.09] David: Leave me alone - I am loving. Awesome. So, I noticed within your show - there was a lot of sillyness, laughter, humor, interaction and then - there was a lot of deepness, a lot of heart center stuff like I was laughing - like you almost got me to cry. I am not going to lie. [00:22:22.21] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Yes. Mission accomplished. [00:22:23.20] David: There was actually a moment where I just wanted to cry. I was just like I need to get this out, but it was just so beautiful and you the variations of emotions that we felt during your show - that the whole crowd felt. How do you use that towards your advantage for the show? Like we're you purposely inserting laughter -- [00:22:44.06] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Very much. [00:22:44.14] David: And deepness. Like obviously it was, but I just kind of want to hear your process with that. [00:22:48.19] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Yeah, I think uh - you know with performance and with writing there is kind of only so much a person can sustain. Uh - and its already a very challenging uncomfortable topic and so I knew that I had to find ways to lighten things up. Add that in. I think the good thing is that I never thought of myself as a funny person and so I didn't -- [00:23:14.17] David: What? [00:23:14.22] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Oh, my goodness. [00:23:16.16] David: You're extremely enjoyable which kind of defaults the funny sometimes I guess but - but -- [00:23:21.00] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Yeah, that's good. Yeah. [00:23:22.23] David: I don't know. That's what I was thinking. [00:23:23.16] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Well thank you. Yeah, when I was writing it I thought I hope people - I hope I can have some levity here because this is going to be really hard, but I don't know how itÕs going to happen and - and that's when I started to discover things as I was workshopping it and reading with people and people would laugh and it would catch me off guard like what are you - you know I'd almost get defensive - what are you laughing about. And I'd be like oh that is funny! And that's how you start to discover it. But yes, I definitely knew that we needed moments of levity and - so another reason why I start after I've gone around the audience and counted as the census worker - you're a white male - free white male, free white female. I then go immediately into this love story. Because everybody loves a love story, right. So, I go from this uncomfortable moment calling people slaves in the audience. Into now we're going to talk about love, right? And so yeah - yeah, the balance is there on purpose so that itÕs not too much. [00:24:26.00] David: ItÕs a jettisoned all over your emotional spectrum and just - and now we are over here. Shoot. Very crazy. That was a pretty intense moment, but for me it felt uncomfortable and perfect. It was like perfectly uncomfortable. I was like yes. You know there was this feeling of - this is what's up. Not holding back. We're saying what needs to be said and we're all here experiencing it at the same time. Like this is how we uncondition together. And so, it was very powerful, and it was just such - oh it was so good. So, you call your show, One Drop of Love. And -- you have a story of the one drop. [00:25:07.09] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: The one drop rule -- [00:25:08.11] David: And itÕs not - itÕs not like drop in the beat you know. Its -- its drop - the one drop rule - can you just kind of quickly explain it. You don't have to go too deep into it, but I felt like that was pretty relevant. [00:25:19.01] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: ItÕs very relevant. And so yeah, the one drop rule was established by slave owners who were essentially rapping their slaves and their slaves were having children and then at some point in the country there were enough of those children and they had to decide what they were going to do. Whether these children would legally be slaves or legally be free. And 99% of those were from rape. There were also relationships. Loving relationships, but we had these you know these people who at the time they were calling the lotto and so the capitalist white men decided that they wanted to make money off of their own children and so they created the one drop rule that said if you have one drop of African blood that determines that you are a slave. And I -- [00:26:12.08] David: Wow! That is pretty intense. Just one drop. There is a lot of drops of blood in you. [00:26:19.23] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Well and right and there is - ultimately blood does not determine anything racially. Nobody can count the amount of black blood you have because there is no such thing. Right? Genetically that is. [00:26:35.06] David: You can't quantify that. [00:26:35.06] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: You can't quantify it. The reason that I choose to - name the show One Drop of Love is to - to really push on the importance of understanding our history and what brought us here and so those first two words - the one drop are reminding us that there is this historical context behind our current personal identity and our personal narrative. There is context. It doesn't mean we have to beholden to that history. But I do think we need to know it. So that we don't repeat it. [00:27:10.01] David: Yeah, I didn't know that until your show. [00:27:12.21] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Oh wow. [00:27:14.04] David: And it really -- it made me realize like we all have African blood. [00:27:18.07] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: We all originated in Africa. We are all African. [00:27:21.13] David: Exactly. We - like we are all African. This is where our roots are from so what are we hiding from? This is where a lot of the like - information and intelligence in developing consciousness came from. And if anything, its more potent over there. You know -- [00:27:39.04] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Right, we've - Africans have had much longer time to evolve than any of us because we began there. And that takes me to - kind of what I - I use these hashtags for the show. Hashtags are social media you know things you use in social media to find - I am assuming you know, but not everybody knows right. Because I love Naropa because sometimes I -- I refer to somethings - ok the pound sign that - so the hashtag I like to use for the show are truth, justice, love. In that order. Because I think itÕs really important that - love does not just look like a hug. Or love does not just look like saying I love you. And love does not even just look like -- caring for you on an emotional level. Love looks like truth and justice. Love looks like fighting for making sure that we understand our history beyond a dominate narrative. And then it means fighting for reconciling that history. Once we're really telling the truth of it. How do we come to repair the things that we broke? And so, its truth, justice, then love. [00:29:05.10] David: So, thought and so beautiful. Yes. [00:29:08.12] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Thank you. [00:29:09.18] David: Awesome. So, we just have a little time left and I just want to ask - what's next for you? Anything exciting coming up? Like - like - anything you want to break right now and just let us know. [00:29:21.00] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Oh, my goodness. [00:29:21.23] David: Where are you off to next? [00:29:22.12] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: So, I am off to Phoenix, Arizona. I will be there next week uh with Black Theater Troupe. Got a 4 show run and I will be doing some workshops there with the Center for the Study of Race and Democracy in Phoenix. And then I will be in June if anyone is in the Cambridge area I am going to be in Cambridge, Massachusetts celebrating loving day which is the - the celebration of the anniversary of the Supreme Court decision that made interracial marriage legal in the United States. Uh and then I am going to be a social justice camp - a couple of different social justice camps this summer. So, I have a lot going on and our website is one drop of love dot com. And you can go there and see what else we're doing. And then in my other job I do develop. I am a development executive in the film and TV industry and so I have a new web series that will be launching on complex. Uh and itÕs called, "Grown" and it stars two millennial Haitian Americans living in Miami. So, I am really proud of that too. [00:30:24.11] David: You have another job? [00:30:25.20] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: I know. I do. [00:30:28.14] David: Wow how does one -- [00:30:29.16] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: ItÕs a lot. [00:30:31.09] David: Very cool. So, uh with a little bit of my research I came across this inclusion rider idea in what is it the movie industry and how you've worked with Frances McDormand. Can you kind of explain that a little bit? [00:30:47.23] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Sure. Yeah so, I didn't work with Frances McDormand directly, but I worked - so I work at a company called Pearl Street Films, which is owned by Matt Damon and Ben Affleck. Uh -- [00:30:59.11] David: Whoa. Hey, shout out. [00:31:00.18] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: So yeah, shout out. So, we grew up together doing theater. Yeah, I've known Matt since I was 9 and then we met -- [00:31:08.09] David: What? [00:31:08.21] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Yeah. [00:31:10.04] David: The story unfolds. [00:31:11.08] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Yeah. And they are kind of executive producers of One Drop of Love, which has been wonderful. However, they also were doing some things kind of pubically in the industry that were just I think that they had come to be in a bubble for a while. In a - a cisgender white male celebrity wealthy bubble that can happen to a person when you don't have a lot of kind of - the access or exposure outside of your bubble. And so, we started to have some questions and conversations around that and my trying to poke holes into the bubble - like hey guys -- [00:31:53.15] David: How thick is the bubble? [00:31:54.20] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Remember how - it was thick. I was bouncing off of that a lot of times. But ultimately, we really - we had some really deep important conversations and so they hired me to come work for their production company to really help them think more broadly about the kind of content films and TV that they were creating and so - one of the first initiatives that I worked on is something called the Inclusion Rider which is an addendum to their contracts. So, any time they are negotiating for a new contract they would bring this addendum to the contract into the studio and say we want to do this film, but we expect you to have targets. These - you know certain targets to make sure that the cast and crew of this film reflects what the world actually looks like. And so, they said yes right away and so we started working for about a year or so with a civil rights attorney getting the language right and then suddenly Oscar night we're all watching the Oscars and Frances McDormand says, inclusion rider. And so, the two women and I were like - what?! And itÕs been wonderful because now its public that these people are making these public commitments to using the inclusion rider and that means people are really reflecting on their biases - sometimes subconscious writing it but they are really kind of thinking now oh -- this movie should look like what the - what this locale looks like. I should have representation in this movie. So -- yeah. So, I was part of that. [00:33:34.13] David: Thank you for popping bubbles. [00:33:37.00] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Oh, you are welcome. [00:33:37.05] David: I appreciate that. And sometimes they are not easy. Sometimes they're big. Sometimes they are small. And sometimes it just takes a little bit of like needle or a karate kick or a samurai sword or just - you know but here we are. [00:33:50.12] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Here we are. Yes, and thank you. I feel like - I feel like everyone I have met at Naropa is about that. And maybe itÕs kind of internal bubbles or just yeah that everyone here is really open to the hard word that it takes to make change and itÕs been a beautiful thing to witness. [00:34:11.11] David: Awesome. So... how can people follow you? So -- you said the - [00:34:17.02] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: The website -- is -- [00:34:18.00] David: You said your website -- [00:34:19.01] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: One drop of love dot com. Yes, I want -- [00:34:21.17] David: You are so interesting. You are doing so many things. Like people need to know about this. [00:34:26.02] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: All right well so Instagram at one drop of love and every Wednesday I do something called Watch Me Work Wednesday and I - itÕs based off of this wonderful playwright named Susan Lori Parks and so itÕs essentially kind of sharing the process of being a theater actor, performer, writer, producer and then also a development executive -- what does it look like? What do you do? Because I feel like if more people shared what their day is like in their career that - that other people would think oh that is something I can do. I kind of want to reveal the process so that no one thinks its magic. That they think -- so they can see themselves in it. [00:35:06.19] David: You got a ghost writer? [00:35:09.14] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: LAUGHS. Yeah, so - so every Wednesday on Insta-stories - Instagram stories I do Watch Me Work Wednesday at One Drop of Love. [00:35:19.08] David: Very cool. All right, well thank you for sharing. It was such a pleasure speaking with you. [00:35:24.02] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: I loved being here. Thank you. [00:35:26.08] David: Our very special guest to the Naropa community and to the podcast Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni - an actor, educator, writer, producer and also her one woman show - One Drop of Love. So, thanks again for speaking with us. [00:35:39.19] Fanshen Coxs DiGiovanni: Thank you. [MUSIC] On behalf of the Naropa community thank you for listening to Mindful U. The official podcast of Naropa University. Check us out at www.naropa.edu or follow us on social media for more updates. [MUSIC]