Chris Cole "Bipolar Strong" [MUSIC] Hello. And welcome to Mindful U at Naropa. A podcast presented by Naropa University in Boulder, Colorado. I'm your host David Devine. And it's a pleasure to welcome you. Joining the best of Eastern and Western educational traditions -- Naropa is the birthplace of the modern mindfulness movement. [MUSIC] [00:00:45.04] DAVID: Hello, today I'd like to welcome Chris Cole to the podcast. Chris is a graduate of Naropa University from the Contemplative Psychology department. He also hosts a podcast called, "Waking Up Bi-Polar" and is the author of a book called, "The Body of Chris: A Memoir of Obsession, Addiction and Madness." And he also has done a talk called SparkTalks with Naropa and his topic was on Bipolar Order: Getting to the Heart of Sanity and I would just like to welcome him today. [00:01:13.13] CHRIS: ItÕs a great joy to be here with you David, thank you. [00:01:16.08] DAVID: Yeah, thanks for speaking with us. So, it seems as though there is a narrative being played here about bipolar order and I would just love to start his conversation about what is your journey? How did you get started and maybe we can kind of go from there and then discover the work you are doing now? [00:01:37.14] CHRIS: Yeah, so - bipolar order is -- a kind of proclamation or declaration that there is more to bipolar than just the pathology. So, people are familiar with bipolar as bipolar disorder and it used to be called manic depressive disorder or maniac depression. And, to me that bipolar order is a necessary bridge for people to be empowered who find themselves meeting the criteria for bipolar disorder particularly bipolar disorder in remission. So, bipolar disorder can be -- classified as a diagnosis as in remission but you still have it is the idea because of the chronic nature of it. And so, for me I found myself especially in advocacy circles where I am trying to activate and inspire people to be empowered and be bold and be bipolar strong is a recent strong that the International Bipolar Foundation was using for World Bipolar Day. [00:02:45.20] DAVID: I love that. [00:02:46.16] CHRIS: Yeah, and so as I am encouraging people to do this I started to notice that people would ask me well what do you do for a living? Or they would say what is your book about? And, I would say stuff like - oh itÕs about my recovery journey. Or I would say I am a recovery coach. Or I would say something like - I have quite a history of challenge - mental health challenges. But I found myself tip-toeing around actually saying bipolar or I have bipolar disorder, or I am mentally ill. These were things that were really challenging for me because I didn't fully identify. [00:03:30.11] DAVID: Yeah, there is a feeling of feeling more empowered by not using the word disorder you know you are in order. And, there is something else just happening that a lot of people experience. And, I resonate with this thing you said bipolar strong because by doing that you're taking the power back. You are not being subjected to a disorder, you know, and so I really appreciate you speaking about that and there is something more powerful there. [00:03:57.02] CHRIS: The hard part for me is - I am very involved in some kind of like mad movement type of material where folks are really standing up and saying that just the very nature of classifying people as sane or insane or psychological well or psychologically unwell invites a whole host of complex systems, which is to say that what we assume is proper behavior, proper speech, proper way of relating to the world and relating to each other - is to be...defined in a way that there is a line between the people that are well and the people that are unwell. And it does not invite a discourse in diversity. Which is to say that how I experience the world is very simply rooted in even the most basic biology that - the way we see color is different between people. We have common language around color. You know so - or the way that our bodies are shaped. Or the way that we each have a unique fingerprint and a unique facial pattern. [00:05:15.19] DAVID: There is an idea of healthy mind, not healthy mind and it sounds like there is a line but what's interesting is it feels so nebulous because like how do you define what is healthy in the mind and what isn't and like maybe some of it is healthy and we're - we're misreading it? [00:05:34.19] CHRIS: Yeah, definitely. And, something that comes up for me around that is wanting to say that in my own story - my own history - I really struggled and so the recovery piece that's completely true - itÕs just not the whole story. Maybe not completely true. ItÕs a completely true statement but itÕs not the whole story. And, I struggled with addiction as an adolescent. I had very challenging relationship with food from a very young age. Someone might consider that disordered eating or eating disorders. And then, as I got older -- I had really intense body dysmorphia where I was like very ashamed of the way my body looked. I didn't feel like I was worthy of -- sexual intimacy. There was a lot really intense things going on for me at that time as a teenager. And so, I hold space in my heart that there are things that we want to be able to treat and we want to be able to move beyond and we want to be able to help heal in people - healing each other most importantly heal in ourselves however - itÕs not for someone to say -- very clearly this is what's wrong with you. ItÕs more like can we invite the space for someone to come in? Can we welcome them into the level of empowerment that is necessary for recovery in the first place and say - how are you struggling? What are you needing? And can I be that safe person? Or can we have this safe space for you to heal what you need to heal? Not what I am telling you -- you need to heal. [00:07:28.23] DAVID: Yes, itÕs an invitation to healing and itÕs not the textbook everyone fits the same mold sort of style. And I really appreciate that. So, how did you know when it came up for you? And, when it came up for you what is it like to self-admit that this is happening? What is that like? What is that process like? [00:07:52.05] CHRIS: Yeah, well -- when it comes to bipolar - what I call bipolar location because I do consider it to be a kind of space that I choose to step into and incorporate into the vernacular to that I use for myself and also the relationship as far as identity and taking on a label that we all have to do. [00:08:14.02] And so, I choose to take on the bipolar label because for one it was given to me without consent. So, if everyone is already telling me I'm bipolar then itÕs kind of my job to re-appropriate that term in a way that makes sense for me so that I can live my life. Because there is something about being diagnosed as a bipolar and then having the very natural resistance to a diagnosis. And then, to have to have this kind of - not only a process of grief and acceptance or what I can mourning and transforming - yeah, but to have this relationship to it in my own internal space, but there is also the external space of - of arguing with others and - and being challenged by others and being branded and being in some ways like for me I was -- and this goes into my story - I was confined in a way. And, treated as a sub-human type of species in my opinion. That's the level of how I was being related to. And so, when I was 18 years old - this is the easiest way for me to tell the - a very long story - but when I was 18 years old I was very into substances especially alcohol and I would stay up partying on Red Bull and vodka and I also had a great deal of the body dysmorphia and eating disorder. So, I would like starve myself. I would take diet pills which had a kind of ephedrine like substance in it. And drink and party all night. And not get good sleep. And what happened was - a week prior to beginning my fall semester of my freshman year in college at the University of Georgia - I couldn't sleep one night and it was after I heard about someone dying in a boating accident. It was an older fraternity brother of some friends of mine and for whatever reason seeing people break down at a party and go from celebrating and keg stands and all these types of things - to go from that to everyone crying stirred something very deep in my soul. Very deep in my being. And it reminded me of a couple friends that I had lost at 16 - two years prior. [00:10:49.04] And, for whatever reason I spent the whole night being unable to stop crying. It was like I had tapped a deep inner well of sadness that I never allowed to flow freely. And so, I tried to drink my sorrows away. It didn't work. And then, when the sun came up I felt so agitated in my skin I started to walk to my dorm room where I was staying from my friend's house and over the course of a number of hours - my ego started to just completely disintegrate. My identity started to evaporate in some way. And, I felt this enormous -- euphoric bliss of not being me. There is a kind of sweet tragedy to it because on one hand it was a very beautiful unitive experience and a very poignant spiritual emergency. And yet on the other hand, the deep, deep relief that I wasn't who I thought I was - was profound. [00:11:59.09] And tragic in a way. Because wouldn't it be nice if - if all of our 18-year-old brothers and sisters and - and peoples of this world could appreciate who they are? And I did not. I was unbelievably relieved to not be Chris Cole. [00:12:18.21] DAVID: Interesting. [00:12:19.10] CHRIS: And so that's what happened and then - what I say is my ego really clung to this - really inexplicable unameable awakening. And I raised very conservative Christian Catholic in the South. I thought well I am definitely Jesus, right? Like this is what - this is what Jesus feels like. No doubt in my mind. And so, with a great deal of conviction I am like uh frantically maniacally running through my dorm room telling all my friends are going to be my disciples. Every person that I talked to I tell them like a prophecy about how they were going to help save the world. And why they were here on this earth. And then, eventually the campus police came and we're like -- they just -- all they did was walk in the door. I remember it very vividly -- all they did was walk through the door. And I laid down flat, face down on the ground and put my hands behind my back. And I just sort of knew they were there for me. And they took me to their police car and said well what are we going to do with him? And, they said let's just take him in and something about that brief conversation sent me running wild and I was convinced that they were the pharisees taking me to my crucifixion by the time I got to the jail. [00:13:46.18] DAVID: Oh man. Wow, what a wild dissolving ride that must have been? [00:13:52.01] CHRIS: It was quite a trip. [00:13:53.11] DAVID: Sounds like the start of quite a thing? So, I have a question for you and itÕs how do you define bipolar? How does that show up for you? [00:14:04.17] CHRIS: There is layers to that question for me. So, when I think about the bipolar that is the sort of common language - I think of bipolar disorder as just a set of symptoms uh diagnostic criteria and if you meet the symptoms for any duration of time - a certain - if you meet enough of the symptoms for a certain duration of time - then you meet the criteria for the diagnosis and you will be diagnosed. And so, there is that and then there is also a piece about for me and this is where the - where spirituality really comes into play is we live in a bipolar universe, you know, everything that we experience, and this is largely based on the nervous systems that we inhabit. Everything we experience is experiencing contrast. And so, if something is not in contrast we actually don't notice it. ItÕs not in our field of consciousness at least not conscious thought I should say. Not the totality of consciousness. And so, without the play of lightness and darkness. Without the spectrum of color or the great - you are a musician I know and so this - this great range of musical tone that we have access to. And as you surely know that there is music tones that are outside of what we can hear. And so, to me the consciousness is like that. There are degrees of consciousness that are outside of our perception. And our abilities because of the constraints of the human body and the human brain. [00:15:46.12] [00:15:47.09] DAVID: Yeah, I see all the - sight and sound and taste. There is a spectrum in which the consciousness lives in and like when it comes to gamma rays we're able to see stuff that our normal vision cannot see. It still exists. ItÕs still affecting and doing its work. And that's kind of how - what I am hearing you say. [00:16:12.13] CHRIS: Yeah, definitely and not just that but there is - this lends itself to neurodiversity which is such a big part of my passion now and my mission. And there is people that are considered tasters, super tasters, the palette of their taste buds and how they experience food and taste is dialed up to a level of sensitivity the majority of people don't have and so they taste notes that we don't taste. They'll smell tea and they'll be able to articulate what kind of ingredients are in - whereas we might not notice at all. We might say well that is just spicy. And they'll say there is some black pepper and there is some cloves and there is some this and that. And that sensitivity can also be refined. [00:17:02.06] So there is like the natural sensitivity and then there is training in sensitivity. And so, to me this sets up a whole host of complex interactions around neurodiversity and spiritual unfolding. Where in our meditation practice we're training in a type of sensitivity in some ways. Not everyone is doing that but a lot of us are naturally. And yet, there is a kind of starting point naturally. There is also experiences that we have related to trauma, related to life experiences that can create a greater level of sensitivity to experience. [00:17:48.16] So, this is all there. And then of course there is - there is people that see colors more vividly. Maybe they might naturally become painters or artists. And there is people that hear music more exquisitely and they might be people like these brilliant geniuses like who is - is it Beethoven that was so young and creating these - if I am butchering that my apologies, right, for any classical music savants, you know. But, my point is - I see bipolar to circle back to this definition - I see bipolar as a natural neurological sensitivity that is global not just in the brain - a natural neurological sensitivity and a greater range of emotional sensitivity which can be something quite beautiful because empathy is part of this great play between neurology and emotionality. [00:18:54.05] DAVID: Yeah. I'm kind of curious when there is bipolar episodes or moments of it flaring up? It seems as though - when the brain is normally functioning we're using like 10 percent you know you can have little graphs and itÕs like this is spawning red over there - your neurotransmitters are working hard over there. [00:19:15.08] It makes me wonder like you're probably a lot more of your brain you normally don't use? [00:19:22.11] CHRIS: Yeah, one hundred percent and something that I really appreciate about what you said is flare up. I think that is such a beautiful way of talking about it. Because that's - we can relate to flare up likes autoimmune. We can relate to chronic pain. We can relate to gastrointestinal discomfort as a flare up. Asthmatic issues as a flare up. I mean that is such a great way of thinking about it and its very accurate to my experience. When it comes to - the brain activity - so, there are really beautiful images of people that are experiencing the symptomology of depression - show in contrast to the brain images of people that are experiencing mania that many more regions are lighting up. At a greater degree. And then, the alternate is true for depressive symptoms. So, the brain activity looks quite diminished. It could be very rudimentarily thought of as turning up the wattage on a light bulb. And blowing the light out. Or having a light that is much more dim because of brain activity is stalling, you know? [00:20:46.16] DAVID: So, I want to talk a little bit about mad triangle. So, there is something you got going on and itÕs called the mad triangle. I just kind of want to say that and just you go. Because this is your thing. So -- [00:21:00.12] CHRIS: Yeah, well I started telling somebody about the mad triangle the other day and they were like - dude, I need you to just slow down because - LAUGHS - you're going so - and its -- [00:21:11.13] DAVID: Give it to us please. [00:21:12.00] CHRIS: Right, itÕs so - to me it feels so far out. So, in certain social locations - people will consider themselves as passing someone that is a trans-identified might say that they pass as male bodied or something like that. So, there is these kind of things that I have as a bipolar person where I am like passing. And - and rate of speech is like that and going too far out is like that. [00:21:43.18] And so, I am like ok you are going to give me this open invitation to go mad triangle and I am like ok I am going to have to -- I am going to have to really pace myself. But, the basic overview and part of the reason I really like that - itÕs a triangle. Three is one of my very favorite numbers. Is that -- the mad triangle is an interplay between trauma, diversity and insight. And when I say interplay - I mean that - any particular location whether it be trauma, diversity or insight can set someone up to have an altered experience in the other two domains. So, someone that has experienced developmental trauma, for example, they might have a whole host of diverse experiences throughout their lives that their peers are not having. So that would a neurologically diverse or experientially diverse life and the type of interactions they have will enhance the trauma in that way - enhance might not be a great word, but it will exacerbate. You know so someone who has perhaps some kind of trauma as a child well then maybe they get bullied later. You know and so there is a kind of cycle that can start to perpetuate and then also with the insight piece - someone like I would qualify for this to use the bullying example - I was bullied for being considered overweight as a child. [00:23:20.04] And, that allowed me - it afforded me insight into human nature then some of my friends that didn't have that experience. And to me it was complicated. Some people that bullied me were also friends. And so, there is a kind of complexity that I could hold as a young kid that a lot of my peers were not having that experience of. And so, to me holding complexity is an integration of insight. So, those are the - those are the basic three and to just kind of like have a little merry-go-round aspect - one of the main gyms of the trauma piece of the mad triangle to me is post-traumatic growth. So, in the positive psychology movement there has been a lot of thought around post traumatic growth, which is basically to say - that if you've had traumatic experiences. If you've had challenges. If you've had heartache. If you've had grief - that going through those experiences can create a positive psychological affect in that you might be more caring for others. You might have more of an experience of preciousness and poignancy in your day to day life. You might treasure your relationships more. You might feel a greater sense of purpose and meaning that you would not have had. Had you not gone through those experiences. [00:24:56.09] DAVID: It almost - I am going to make something up right here. Neuroplasticity through emotion because of the subjections that you are being faced with. I also feel like it does depend on the characteristics that you hold and how you filter that and digest it because it can go in different directions but being potent and being present with those things could ultimately form how the rest of your life is being lived. [00:25:24.03] CHRIS: That's absolutely right. And what I need to be very clear about for this conversation and for the recording and for the audience its not to say that trauma is like growth is inherent to trauma. [00:25:38.01] DAVID: Totally. [00:25:38.23] CHRIS: And that is so important because we don't want to be going out looking for trauma and we also don't want to be viewing people and receiving people that have had traumatic experiences as if they should somehow be sages, saints - these great bodhisattvas just because they have gone through challenges. That's not the case. ItÕs just that a greater growth potential is there. [00:26:02.18] DAVID: Yes. [00:26:03.06] CHRIS: You know and so - I am happy to say and admit that some of my very favorite people have gone through enormous hardship that there is a texture and a quality and a kind of resonate boundless heart that comes through getting to the other side of adversity. That is just quite frankly not there in someone that hasn't experienced it. For me and that shows a kind of chasm that has been crossed and people are better for it. Having transformed. They are not better for it having suffered. And that's what I want to be very clear about. [00:26:49.14] DAVID: Yes, thank you for clarifying. I really appreciate that. [00:26:52.10] CHRIS: I am going to give you my favorite gym from each of the these. [00:26:55.10] DAVID: I love gyms. [00:26:55.17] CHRIS: So then when it comes to diversity this - the neurodiversity paradigm and I first heard that through Nick Walker and so I want to give -- [00:27:04.10] DAVID: I really like that. [00:27:04.10] CHRIS: A lot of credit. But the neurodiversity paradigm is basically acknowledging in a very simple way which we already have - that we all have variety of neurological experiences. And just like a fingerprint is unique. Just like a face is unique. Just like a personality is unique. We all are these unique expressions of the infinite variety of life's great bounty. And neurological diversity has to be a part of that. Because our nervous system is how we do everything. ItÕs the very fabric that weaves us together as human beings. ItÕs a whole reason we can hear each otherÕs voices, feel each other's pain, cry a beautiful art. I mean everything we experience is a neurological experience. [00:27:58.11] And so, that presents an opportunity to say that there are certain neurological dispositions that are marginalized or oppressed in our society. And bipolar is one of them. The neurodiversity paradigm came out of an autistic declaration proclamation that we are not broken to be fixed. [00:28:27.16] [00:28:28.10] DAVID: Yes. [00:28:28.20] CHRIS: That we are real human beings and just because our experiences and our behaviors are different than the typical human experience does not make them any less valuable. [00:28:42.21] DAVID: Yeah, neurologically marginalized. [00:28:45.12] CHRIS: Yes. [00:28:46.01] DAVID: Wow. So, we're running out of time and I just want to ask you one more question. You just got so much in you and I love it. When you have a friend, a family member, someone you know, work place and they have maybe symptoms and or are associating themselves with bipolar - how does one hold space? How does on show up? How can one be present with such things? [00:29:09.06] CHRIS: ItÕs a great question and it lends itself directly to something I called consciousness humility which is we are very familiar - at least our Naropa people, right? Us Naropa folk are familiar with cultural competency. And cultural humility. And, if we're talking about neurodiversity as an aspect of diversity in its whole expression - then consciousness humility is saying that I can have hints and glimpses and insight into your experience, but I will never know what itÕs like to be David. You will never know what itÕs like to be me. And there is a kind of grace that automatically flourishes in the space of humility where someone is safe enough in the space of humility to say you know what I am struggling, and I do need help. That's the violence and aggression that happens in these discussions. Is we're trying to convince someone to see their impotence or their deficiency? And actually, if we say - here is my heart its open to you. And you're invited to come in. And then they want to step freely into that because we all need support. We all need support. And so, consciousness humility too is saying like I am imperfect. And I suffer. [00:30:41.09] And the suffering in me acknowledges and honors the suffering in you. Along with the beauty. [00:30:50.06] DAVID: Yeah, and that's the diversity of seeing the light in you as well. Oh wow, I feel like we can just keep talking about this and our time is up but -- how can people find more information about you? How can they find you if people are interested in the work you are doing because you are doing so many great things and I just want to showcase that? [00:31:13.03] CHRIS: Yeah, thank you so much. This has been such a pleasure and my website is waking up bipolar dot com. That is also the name of my podcast - Waking UP Bipolar with Chris Cole and I also coach people and I am sure there will be much more unfolding over time. So, I'd love to connect to the folks that resonate with the message. [00:31:36.03] DAVID: Yes, thank you so much for just dropping your knowledge on us and just showcasing what you know, what you've been through and where people can just find more information. I really appreciate it. [00:31:48.18] CHRIS: Thank you, David. [00:31:50.16] DAVID: So, today I'd just like to thank Chris Cole to the podcast. Chris is a graduate of Naropa University and I would just love to just say thank you again. [MUSIC] On behalf of the Naropa community thank you for listening to Mindful U. The official podcast of Naropa University. Check us out at www.naropa.edu or follow us on social media for more updates. [MUSIC]