Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser TRT 45:03 [MUSIC] Hello, and welcome to Mindful U at Naropa. A podcast presented by Naropa University in Boulder, Colorado. I’m your host, David Devine. And it’s a pleasure to welcome you. Joining the best of Eastern and Western educational traditions — Naropa is the birthplace of the modern mindfulness movement. DAVID: Hello, everyone and welcome to another episode of the Mindful U podcast. Today we have two guests in the studio with us Jessica DelCastillo and Danielle Swaser. Jessica is the Senior Director of Academic Advising at Naropa, and the Officer of Career in Life Development. She is also a psychology graduate from Naropa, while also earning her master’s on education in adult learning, training and development from Regis University. We also have Danielle Swaser. She is the Associate Director of the Career and Life Development. She graduated with her MA Art Therapy program in 2015, from Naropa, and she started working as an iteration in the office that she works in now. Welcome to the podcast. How are you today? Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Great. Thank you for having us. We’re excited. Yeah, thank you. DAVID: It’s always kind of fun to have more than one person in studio because I get to hear two different perspectives. So thank you for joining us. And this is actually the first time we get to talk about like career based stuff with Naropa. Because normally, it’s like teachers and students and guests. So I’m actually really curious about this topic today. And to start, what are these roles or these positions and responsibilities that you have? Because I just mentioned them, but can you also like state the responsibilities and how you engage with students and the like faculty at Naropa? Jessica DelCastillo: Yes, totally. So this is Jessica. So with the Office of Career and Life development, we engage with the community in various ways. So most directly, we engage with our students, and offering them career development support. Some things that that can look like is workshop cover letter, resume cover letter, writing workshops. We do multiple assessments for folks to come in, if they’re struggling with, you know, what path do they want to be on. So all things in the realm of career advising. We have a career advisor, her name is PJ Gunter, she’s wonderful, that students can book with. So that’s one piece of our office, the other piece of our office is supporting our graduate students going into practicum, and internship. Helping the students and also setting up the relationships with our sites, our community sites, which are wildly important to us, we’ll talk a little bit more about them, I’m sure. So we offer a lot. And then as far as faculty support, we get into classrooms, we get in front of graduate and undergraduate classes and talk about, you know, interviewing skills, job searching, anything that you can think of under the sun that would directly relate to career development. And, Danielle, anything else to add? Danielle Swaser: Yeah, so this is Danielle, I think to add, we do also offer alum services, so they have unlimited amount of sessions to book with our office. So even after they graduate, if they have a major career change, or, you know, anything happens, where they kind of want to reassess like what they want to be doing in the world, they can also make appointments with us. I’m working with students that have graduated, like pre 2010, right now. So anytime they want to come back. And then I think as Jess said too, like our community partners, we have a growing online program in the BA and then also a low residency program in the graduate school. So we’re working with people and — and sites all over the United States now, and even all over the world. Some folks are located in other countries. So Naropa is getting out there. We’re growing way outside of Colorado, which is cool. DAVID: Awesome. So I just had a quick thought, how often are you dealing with alums compared to like, students? Is there like a different ratio? Is it more students base? Or do alums actually come back? Like you’re talking about people from 2010? That’s kind of wild. Danielle Swaser: Yeah, no, I think we work more so as students when they’re in the program, like they’re hearing about our office, their — you know, a lot of the undergrads are kind of in a position where they’re exploring their major, what do they want to do after they graduate, or if there is a career change? So I think the majority is still students that are enrolled in the program. But I’d say maybe a quarter of those are — are alarm that come back. So it’s quite a bit, it’s not like every, you know, a few here and there. I think it’s more than I had expected. DAVID: Okay. Yeah, that’s the feeling I’m getting, it’s more than I expected too. Because I would think like when you leave college that you don’t necessarily rely on them to help you find your path again. But it’s really nice to have that service. Danielle Swaser: Right. It’s cool. And I think that were part of the reason why we’re excited to do the podcast with you and kind of get the word out about our office is to let all of our alumnx out there know after listening to this podcast that, hey, we’re still here, you get unlimited free services with us. DAVID: That’s amazing. Cool. I can use that, is what you’re saying. Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Yes. Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Come back and see us. We’d love to help you. DAVID: All right. You’re like looking for a podcast, producer, host. Amazing. So let’s explore, what are some of the reasons students or alum would use the Career Service Center. And you loosely mentioned it, resume building, interview practice, career directional pursuits, you know, following things that have a vision of what you graduated in? Because you’re not like trying to like, go off course a little bit. So how — how can the Career Services assist these people with these needs? Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Yeah, you know, a student coming to see a career advisor in our office, like you mentioned, David might want to talk a little bit about like, I need support writing a resume or cover letter, there’s a specific job that I want to apply for. So I need some support and tailoring my resume to that, or, you know, a lot of folks are very nervous about interviewing. So doing some mock interviewing. We help people even with like negotiation skills, how do we help to negotiate salary. Because it’s Naropa, we can look at things from non traditional ways too, which is the — a fun part of our job. So sometimes people come to us and say, I’m a — I’m a little bit lost. And I don’t know if this is the right major for me, or this is the career I’m thinking about. And maybe I’m not fully aligned with that. So that’s where we can do some really cool assessments. We use an assessment called YouScience, which is really powerful and really — DAVID: YouScience. Jessica DelCastillo: It’s called You, like, Y-O-U, Science. And we do strengths, Gallup Strengths is a big one. Myers Briggs is another one that we can offer, Career Anchors. So lots of variety, if folks want to take that route, and actually like doing an assessment and telling you a little bit more about like the inner workings of yourself and personality and how your skills align. So that’s a piece of where they would come to us. We also offer a lot of workshops, which I want to talk about, which are really, really helpful to grads and undergrads. Another piece why students would come to our office then would be the other arm with the practicum and internship. So as an undergrad, maybe they’re looking for an undergraduate internship. And we can help support in that, we have a lot of, as we mentioned, community sites that we work with. Just tons of great experience for these undergrad students to have. And then our graduate students are often required, especially with the counseling programs to do practicum and internship, it’s actually 800 hours. And so yeah, so it’s quite a bit. And so that’s a requirement for them to go out there and get their licensure. So that’s another huge piece of our office where they would come in and get support in actually finding the practicum and internship site, which is Danielle’s specialty as she sets up all the partnerships for us. DAVID: Great. Very cool. So I had a, like a thought come up. So I’m sure writing a resume and writing a cover letter has shifted over the years. And I’m wondering, what sort of techniques have you implemented that are recent, for the changing times of like the careers and the paths that people are taking, and also like thinking about, if a lot of people are interviewing online, you know, there’s like a digital aspect to interviewing, it’s a lot different than like, being in a room with a person and like interviewing with them. And as you know, people of Naropa, we tend to feel energy, we tend to be more embodied, we tend to have these different aspects that we utilize. And I’m wondering, does that translate when you’re on a video screen, or you know, and your cat is like, sitting on your computer and like, how does the shifting world in the digital world change your — your work that you do? Danielle Swaser: Yeah, I can jump in here. I think, you know, our approach is really very Naropa-esque of like, let’s get a resume and a cover letter that you really feel authentic about. Our approach is kind of you know, there’s no right or wrong here. It’s like, let’s find something that you feel like, this is your piece of paper. This is your — you are behind this and how are you going to feel and show up as your best possible self and really empower students to feel like they’re interviewing the employer also. So it needs to be a good fit both ways. A lot of times I have, or advise students to maybe do some informational interviews before they maybe officially apply or just — DAVID: Informational interviews? Danielle Swaser: Yeah, so just kind of getting some more background information on a maybe particular company or a particular field, so that they can just have, you know, more information, feel more prepared if they’re going to be doing an actual kind of formal interview. And so this might be in the form of practicing, like, how do you show up via zoom, or digitally or doing online kind of interview? So I think it’s practice. And then students, you know, I think if they’re really coming at it with like, being kind of honest, asking questions, and approaching it in a way that they feel a little bit more empowered. And then, you know, there’s different kinds of templates for resumes. So we have some that are more highlighting, like strengths, or aptitudes, as opposed to like, here’s like, the exact job duties I did in each job. So it’s kind of highlighting who they are, and what they’re bringing more so than just the tasks that they do. DAVID: Yeah, and I can also see that changing depending on the job that you are applying for, because I do remember, in the beginning years, I have — I would have to say, like what I’ve done, and nowadays, I’m like, this is what I can do, like here’s some skills. I have. Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Exactly. DAVID: It’s more skill based when you start going career, but it’s very duty based when you’re just getting in there. Danielle Swaser: Exactly. And I think you know, there’s digital resumes also. So we’re all you know, AI is something that’s gonna sift through people’s resumes, if they’re applying to like bigger corporations or bigger places, you know, getting some of those like buzzwords in there if they’re applying. So kind of doing homework on where you’re applying to, to make sure that you’re setting yourself up. DAVID: Are people writing their resumes with chat GPT and all that? Danielle Swaser: I have heard that this is, yeah, there is — it’s a thing. Jessica DelCastillo: I can say yes. DAVID: Would an employer look at if you did that or not? Do they have little, you know, checks and balances when it comes to the AI? Jessica DelCastillo: I think, we’ll see. I mean, I don’t — I don’t think so. I’m not sure if right now, maybe. But we are like Danielle said, moving towards, you know, digital, everything. And AI is a huge piece of that. And I — the — it’s shifting — it’s shifting, and that’s another thing from our department is we’re really trying to stay on top of all of these things and making sure that we’re advising and guiding our students in the best way possible, and what is it that employers are looking for? And also, where are the little checks and balances, something that like, wouldn’t get them through the filtration or something like that? DAVID: What’s interesting about your two positions is you work for a contemplative, you know, like Buddhist University, it’s a pretty unique experience and educational path. And I’m wondering, how is the Career Services different at a contemplative based university, that compared to — to more of a not private university? How does the contemplative show up that you might not get at another spot? Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: It kind of starts like inherently based in our offices name, it’s Career and Life Development. So we really use assessments and things like that to get students to start to think about, like, who are they? How do they show up in the world? How do they show up on teams? Like what’s their innate strengths and abilities and interests, really, too not just kind of how they show up, but what are they interested in? So it kind of starts with that contemplative, who am I, starting with you first, to then kind of bring that out into the world of maybe a career or a life path? Like not everybody, you know, has career as their main focus in life? So like, how do they want to just show up with some of their interests or what they feel like they can give and be a part of kind of — this greater society? DAVID: Yeah, and I think we kind of forget how important life is. Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Yeah. DAVID: When we are pursuing careers. So it’s kind of nice to be able to have, you know, what’s important for you? What is it you’re actually looking for, not just in your career, but also your life? Jessica DelCastillo: Yeah, and how you can be aligned with that, like, find out what is really true for you to be able to feel like you’re gonna be really set up and — and successful and thrive. DAVID: Yeah, and we all want to be successful. Right? Danielle Swaser: We do — and what does that look like? Because success can look a lot of different ways for people and so we — we can help guide that too. I think we talk a lot about like head and heart alignment, which I think like intrinsically head and heart alignment is maybe the basis of some career development and advising in general, but I think that we use different techniques being Naropans and you know, contemplative university to help people find that alignment in a way that makes me feel fulfilled with my interest and my strengths and my skills and then take that out there into the bigger world, if it’s career, or if I’m going into a graduate program, or I’ve just done this purely for the knowledge, and I’m taking it out there in a different way. DAVID: So there was a mention of people changing careers. What are some of the things you hear from the people who are wanting to change their career? Is it the life wasn’t being seen when they first chose their career path? Like what changes or they’re just like, oh, there is a financial change, they want to make more money? Is it that they’re not feeling the work they’re doing anymore and they want to change career paths. They’re like, oh, I thought, you know, this was the path I wanted to take. But I want to work with people instead of working with like development and design or some things, what are some of the commonalities that you hear with people changing their careers nowadays? Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: I mean, I think you, you nailed it, right there, all of those things. You know, maybe there’s burnout of, yeah, I don’t want to do people relational oriented job anymore, and maybe finding out, okay, what else could there be taking some assessments and things of like, oh, maybe it’s actually like, data, or computer programming or something that they can get into? I’ve had these changes before, like that in some of my students that I’ve met with. So I think it’s all of that, yeah, financial change of interest, maybe a relocation and finding something new. It’s kind of ever evolving. And I think, you know, people aren’t really having one career anymore. It’s kind of this norm of like, you can have three or four different career paths, and it doesn’t matter age anymore, you can go back to school. So just keep learning and growing and kind of following where your path leads you. DAVID: Okay. So I have both of you here. And you sort of have different titles, but yet you sort of also work together. But are you in the same office as well? Or are they different offices? Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Sometimes we’re in the same office. LAUGHING DAVID: Okay. And so my question is, how is the relationship between — both of your titles are different? And how are they similar? And when would a student use Danielle instead of Jessica’s services when it comes to new Naropa’s offerings? Jessica DelCastillo: Yeah, the other piece of my title outside of career and life development would be Academic Advising. So that’s kind of been a little bit more of my history at Naropa as an academic advisor, that’s where I started previous to coming into this role. So that’s a little bit of a different animal. So students are coming to me in that realm looking for support with their academics. So with their degree. DAVID: Ok, so what class should I take if I want to do this? Jessica DelCastillo: Right. How do I graduate in this month? What if I want to sub this class for this? So that’s — that’s one — the other piece of my role, where Danielle works firmly in the Office of Career and Life development, so is a little bit more of the specialist there. So we interact a lot and actually advising, and then career and life development, like it’s a beautiful thing to have these — these two departments under one roof, because it really is like a testament to the student’s whole experience of when they come to Naropa and as they’re planning their degree. And as they’re moving towards, you know, ultimately, the goal is to graduate and go out into the bigger world, right? And so, how do I — how do I do that? How do I get support with career and then even further as an alumnx, hey, I need to come back because I feel like I need some support. So it’s really nice to oversee both of these departments. So I would say that touch points for both of them, but like actually getting into like the career advising piece, that would be over in Danielle’s realm. Again, PJ Gunther is our career advisor. And then supporting students in their practicum and internship. So Danielle, truly is the expert, so students would come to her for anything related to career and life. And we have other employees within our offices, too, that are supporting students in different ways. DAVID: Great. And so you essentially might see a student before the career happens. Jessica DelCastillo: Right. DAVID: And then you see them when the career starts showing up. Danielle Swaser: Yeah, it is — it’s a nice like connection. DAVID: Nice little handoff. Danielle Swaser: Yes. Jessica DelCastillo: Right. DAVID: Like a relay race. Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Yeah, yeah. Jessica DelCastillo: You take over! DAVID: All right. So we’re going to jump a little bit more into the career and life development stuff. And what I’m wondering is how many students actually utilize this service? Do you want more students to utilize it? Do you have too many? How many people like actually know about it? And also, how important is it to think about your career before you graduate and maybe start setting up some situations where you have more potential to get a job that you’re looking for after you graduate compared to looking for a job after the summer of when you graduated? Like is it too late? Is there any tips, tricks? Like what do you got? Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Yeah, I think it’s — I mean, we’re always trying to get in front of more students and have them be aware of our services. I don’t have the numbers right now, actually, it’s always in my — DAVID: This is a little on spot, so you don’t need that. Danielle Swaser: End of year report that I just don’t have at my fingertips right now. But I don’t know, would you say maybe like 75% of students like in undergrad and grad, at some point, interact with our office, because like Jess said, we work with students that do internships, and clinical placements in both the grad and undergrad. So I think that’s a really important piece, that they start to think about it now when they’re a student, because they can use those internships, and clinical placements to see like, what they like, and maybe what they don’t like, and get some more experience and get some more information for themselves around, like, where they might want to go. So I think it’s always good to start thinking about it sooner rather than later, like, you know, again, get to know kind of where your strengths are, where your aptitudes are, and then, you know, how do you find alignment with what’s out there for you? DAVID: Do you feel as though students show up with the idea of the direction they want to go with their career, you know, as in like, oh, I want to be this position at this company? Or they’re like, you know, what, I’m pursuing this psychology program. And I don’t necessarily know what I want to do. I just know, I want to work in this field, like, what can you offer? Jessica DelCastillo: I think it’s interesting, I think that our students sometimes show up saying, this is exactly what I want to do. And the thing that’s always —and that’s great. And sometimes the thing that’s interesting is then they go into an internship or something like that. Like, oh a big one I hear is like, I know, I want to work with kids. And then they go into something with kids. And they’re like, I know, I don’t want to work with kids. So it’s this great place to like, explore and just speaking of our office in general, like, I would like to see more students utilize us and the services that we offer. Because as Danielle is saying, it’s really never too early to start thinking about these things. And I think I’m an optimist. And so folks are like, I’m going to graduate and land this perfect job immediately. And sometimes life doesn’t roll out that way. Sometimes it does, which is also amazing. So yeah, I think it’s our students show up in those spaces of like, I know exactly what I want to do. But our students for the most part, and Danielle will speak to this as well is they’re very entrepreneurial. Like they really — they’re not so like pigeon holed, like I know, I want to go in this type of like corporation or something like that. I mean, there’s nothing wrong with being a part of a corporation. But they want to do very interesting things. So like, how do we help them to find that company? How do we help them to find that alignment? How do we help to set them up for this thing that they want to do? Maybe it’s they want to start their own podcasting network? Or maybe it’s they want to start their own type of healing practice, something like that. So how do we, you know, looking at it from like, kind of out of the box, like the third door, if you will, and helping to set them up for whatever it is that they want to do. DAVID: And it seems as though a lot of career paths tend to be private practices too? Jessica DelCastillo: For the graduate students, yes. DAVID: Entrepreneur is essentially needed. Jessica DelCastillo: Yeah, we offer a lot of workshops. Sofia Drobinsky is another one of our kind of part time career advisors, also a graduate from Naropa. And she offered, I think it was five actually private practice, how to start your own private practice workshops this past academic year. And then we do — yeah, ones of like, how to market yourself, how to start your own business. So I think we’re geared more towards, you know, the students, the ones that are interested in Naropa have all these really, really cool ideas. And so, yeah, how do we support them? Kind of let them take it — take off with it? DAVID: Yeah. And what’s interesting is once you start diving into what you want to do for your career, and how to get into it, you start realizing how much of the academic journey is just one piece of the multi piece journey that you kind of need of, you need a resume, you need to interview skills, you need to know the company, you need to know what work they do and why you want to work there and how it relates to what you learned. And so this leads into my question of, with like the Career Development Center, you sort of mentioned some of the offerings of workshops, helping with the resume and all that stuff. Can we dive into it a little bit more? Can you tell me more about like, what types of workshops you have, the types of things you’ll learn? What does the relationship look like when they start this program with you? And is there anything else that you — you help them with? Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Yeah, so you know, a lot of the workshops we do I have a list of ones that we offered this — DAVID: Oh we love lists. Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Yeah, me too. This last academic year. So like I said, a lot of private practice workshops, we had five of those, how to start your own business, we had a couple interviewing skills workshops, career assessments and transferable skills. So this is where students can learn about the different assessments we have. And I think sometimes there’s an aversion to taking assessments. But this is really, you know, students are all — we are ultimately, you know, have the say, of like, I feel like this is me or not. So it’s not saying like, you’re now labeled as this. Like, it’s kind of just a jumping off point to explore more. So I’m not trying to like, put people in a box of like, this is how you are. We get to dictate what we feel is authentic or not, if that makes sense. Resume and cover letter workshops. We have orientations for some of the MA and BA, if they do internships and things like that, we do like, for the GSCP, a site supervisor panel. So when they’re getting ready to apply for their clinical placements, they get to meet with actual site supervisors and kind of pick their brains and hear what that best practice is, for the whole kind of application interview process. We have a lot of financial literacy workshops, and PJ, this is kind of her area. So she’s bringing a lot of that into the resources that we have as well. PhD panels, LinkedIn, and job trends and things like that. We’ve hosted a couple women alumnx panels, and things like that. So kind of all over the board with like, presentations, workshops, and then panels and stuff like that. DAVID: Yeah, it’s like all the things you don’t necessarily get in the educational path. But it’s part of the career path. Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Yep, exactly. DAVID: Okay. And so you also mentioned a little bit about like relationships with industries and partnerships. And I’m wondering, so what type of fields do we partner with? What type of industries do we partner with? Because obviously, there is some sort of degrees we offer. And there’s — we don’t offer math degrees, we don’t offer technology degrees, we offer psychology, religious, like eco environment stuff. So we have a little bit of a niche over here. So is there specific industries that we work with, specific fields? And what type of relationships do we have with those opportunities? Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Yeah, I mean, it is a whole kind of array for the different programs. And I think it does depend on the program students are in. So obviously, like the clinical mental health counseling students, they’re doing clinical internships. You know, Master of Divinity, they’re doing something kind of in the realm for their chaplaincy experience. Eco psych does, you know, it’s kind of a combo of people are, you know, bringing kind of what their interests are into it, it’s not as defined. Same with undergrad, it’s kind of like what their interests are, as long as they get kind of the hours requirements. So we’re really open to working with students to find something that they really feel like is going to be supportive and enriching to kind of explore what they want to do. There is components of like, you know, you need to have a supervisor, you need to have some learning goals and objectives to start out with, but it really can be very open. We have partners with like schools, hospitals, you know, art based ones, if folks are kind of into like studio art. Sustainable farms, equine therapy, types of places, law firms, sometimes we have students that might want to pursue law. You know, text lines, you know, crisis text lines was the big one, especially during the pandemic. So it’s a really a little bit of everything. It’s actually surprising with how many different sites we partner with, again, we want to meet students’ interest. Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Yeah, a lot of nonprofits too are like students that want to, you know, help change. So it’s like government kind of being in like, how do you start at the systemic level? And so getting into all of that, which is, it’s always so awesome to hear about what students are doing. It’s really, it’s amazing work that our students are a part of. Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: A couple of years ago, Governor Polis reached out to us and wanted specifically to take Naropa students as interns. So we had two Naropa students, different branches of Polis’ office, and they were actually working on legislation. So it was a really cool experience. DAVID: Oh, that’s cool. He’s just like, hit you up. He’s just like, hey, give me some of them students. Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: He’s friends with Anne Waldman. DAVID: Oh, really? Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: I don’t know about the relationship, but that’s what I heard. Yeah, so anyways, there was a connection. DAVID: That’s cool. I mean, she helped start to school. So — Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: It’s true. DAVID: So G. Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Yes, iconic. DAVID: Wonderful. So is there like a difference in relationship if somebody is trying to be an entrepreneur compared to like a, you know someone who works for a company? Because it does seem like a lot of our — like being a psychologist, it seems like a private practice. And there’s like some entrepreneur lens that is used for that because there’s not like a playbook like, oh, you just go apply for this job, write a resume, you get hired, they kind of tell you what to do. It’s — it’s like, all of a sudden, you have to go rent a facility, like where do you get your clients from? Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: We’re creating some different workshops and offerings that we’re going to be offering in the internship classes, and then through the office overall, as — that speaks to how do you create your own business? How do you market your own business? How do you get support in grant writing, things like that. So I think that like as we work to help meet our students where they’re at, and as the world is shifting, and it’s changing, again, people have multiple jobs, you know, people don’t stay at one company for their whole entire careers anymore. So that’s something that’s important to us to be able to offer those resources regardless of the path that the student wants to take. DAVID: So while reading about the Career Services and Development Department, I came across this word called we are living in a VUCA. World, V-U-C-A. And I’m curious, can you tell us what VUCA means and how we work with that with our students. Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: So yeah, this is kind of the idea that we’re living in ever changing world. And I think our, you know, approach to working with students is like really meeting them where they’re at, and having this kind of spaciousness to allow for change, to allow for evolution, and kind of see what you’re bringing, and maybe how to strengthen some things, or maybe let go of things that aren’t serving you. So just kind of being a little bit more adaptive, and kind of open to learning about yourself. Jessica DelCastillo: So the word VUCA actually stands for volatile, uncertain, complex and ambiguous. And I think it’s just a reminder, as Danielle was saying that we meet students where they are and it’s actually okay to not know, sometimes exactly the direction you need to be in. It’s a reminder that we’re always in the right spot in the moment. But from our office’s perspective, we’re there to help people get some grounding, can do some visioning work with folks and to get some tools to help maybe start to guide them in the direction that they want to go to. DAVID: Also attending Naropa, I felt like I’ve heard that before, but I never really looked into it. And then I read it again in that statement, and then I looked it up and I was like, wow, that’s pretty honest at this moment, because everything is changing so much. It’s so volatile, like there’s wars, there’s oil issues, there’s like electricity battles, and there’s so many things going on in the world that like sometimes it could shift your careers So it’s — it’s really important to be fluid with how you might show up in the world sometimes, because by the time you get ready to do it, the thing that you essentially wanted to do might not be there anymore, or it might be different. It might change, or there’s more complexities that you just didn’t really assume. And that’s what’s great about this service that you guys offer is the fact that you can help them see something that they probably don’t necessarily see themselves. So when it comes to your career services, is there anything that sticks out to you that you’re very proud of? Is there anything that you’ve — that you’ve noticed that you can like offer the people listening? Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Yeah, I think so. I think that we’re, you know, we’re definitely proud of all the work that we do with students. But something that we — when we’re planning for this podcast together, a really exciting fact is through internships, which is the big piece of our office, undergraduate and graduate just last year alone, our undergraduate and graduate students did 140,860 hours out in the community. DAVID: Whoa. Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Yeah, it’s huge. It almost seems unbelievable. And that’s through their practicum and internship. So, you know, our students have such a huge positive presence in our community, and nationally, and even globally now as we have a global population at this point. So it’s really cool to think about as we move forward to Naropa celebrating its 50th anniversary, one of the big pieces of that is like how have we and how will we continue to establish ourselves as the leader in contemplative education. And I think that so much of it is rooted right there by the folks that are actually taking this beautiful education that we offer, and then going out into the bigger world and applying it in that way. And being that positive presence for Naropa. DAVID: Awesome. When people show up with these wanting to do internships, do they kind of know where they want to intern? Or do you have a relationship that you help them with — that they build? Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Yeah, it’s all over the board. We have some people that really like they know what they want to do, they know where they want to do it. And then some not so much. So we can work, you know, the whole spectrum of where people are at. We do have directories that we give students of partnerships that Naropa has all over the country. Right now we have like over 300 partnerships that we’ve formalize with. And we’re always excited to be partnering with new organizations and things for students to be of service. So we’re continually growing that and you know, every year we create more and more new partnerships, and I think it really just shows like how much Naropa really is spreading like in these actual numbers. So it’s kind of cool to add them all up every once in a while. DAVID: How often do you get a partnership because someone came to you, like you’re telling me about the Jared Polis thing? Do you have other entities coming to you? Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Yeah, I mean, it — it’s kind of all over the board, like our alum, you know, go off and do some really cool work. And then they come back and want to give back to students that are in the programs maybe that they were in or something that they’re doing. So it is kind of like this loop that happens sometimes. And it really is a small community. Like once you start talking about anything Naropa, there’s like, weirdly, always someone that knows someone that went there, or like knows about it, and it is like, it’s — it’s fascinating. DAVID: Its tentacles like go far. Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Yeah. DAVID: What is it, Project Garba, Wisdom of the matrix? Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Yes. DAVID: It’s the big circle thing you talk about. Okay, so we recently kind of had this thing called COVID. And it put careers, work, life — it put so many different things in a place where it shifted, like the way we work, there’s a lot of at homework now that necessarily wasn’t there before. There’s a lot of people working maybe multiple gigs. Now there’s a lot of like, more online base work that you could do. There’s also like a lot of, you know, emotional — the things that relationship things that came up with COVID. COVID really does some really weird stuff with employment, with education, and mental health. And what I’m wondering is, has COVID changed the way you assist with the Career Development compared to before that? Is there anything new that you do nowadays, compared to before COVID? Danielle Swaser: That’s a really good question. I think like you just said, I mean, things have shifted to be more online. There’s more spaciousness, I think, in some jobs where maybe employers are reevaluating, like, do we need to do this like nine to five, five days a week, kind of like structure? You know, we’re just trying to kind of stay on top of some of the — the trends that we’re hearing about and things that we can research. And, you know, it’s a good question, I think like I have more conversations with students around, you know, really negotiating like what they want. Again, interviewing the employer, because there is some freedom now that we’re kind of discovering of and reevaluating, like, why are we doing it this way? And why do we have to? So I think there’s a little bit more of an exploration in the interview. So, I mean, I wouldn’t say things have shifted hugely in what we do. But it’s definitely got me to encourage students to really like, get out there and ask way more questions. Really think about what you actually want and what you’re willing to do. Because there’s more options, I kind of feel like. Jessica DelCastillo: Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, I think totally to everything Danielle just said, some of the basic things I think that have — we’ve shifted a little bit is just, you know, we use different verbiage and resumes right now that speak more to working remotely. And also interviewing, I think you mentioned it earlier, David, like, how do we interview and let’s be honest, most interviews are now in that — in the online space. So what does it look like to actually show up in the online space? Like, as yourself authentically, and then just like, be aware of your surrounding as you interview in this online space? Is the cat on your lap? Is that okay? Is the dog barking in the background? What’s behind you? Things like that? So I think, definitely, when the pandemic was starting, and we we’re in the middle of it, there was a lot of coaching around okay, yes, this interview is going to be online, let’s — you know, make sure that we’re set up for success in this online space. DAVID: Where my tie, I can wear my PJ pants. Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Yes. DAVID: But I can wear my tie. Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Right, right. Exactly. Business casual. DAVID: There it is. So my last question for you is being in this position, and working with many students and many faculty members and like industries and all the other partners that you might have? Is there anything interesting that you’ve come across whether it be with positioning or how to encourage people, what are some tricks, tips, how to prepare? Like, if I was a student looking to, you know, get into like a career path, how can I prepare to show up to meet with you to make everything work really well? What are some tricks, tips, advice? Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: One that like immediately came to mind is like, start your network of people while you’re a student, you know, you have faculty maybe doing something you’re really interested in. And they might know people. So as a student, kind of always just hold that kind of lens of opportunity of like, who could I connect with and pick their brain or like, you never know where that might lead? So starting with, you know, that networking piece, because I think a lot of times people get jobs, because it’s who they know, not necessarily like sending your application out into the ether of Indeed, or something like that. DAVID: Like cross your fingers. Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Yeah. DAVID: Please. Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Exactly. So I think that’s a really big one. DAVID: That’s a great one. It’s important to have a network. Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Yeah. And, you know, using, again, the informational interviewing, I think it kind of goes hand in hand with the networking. So just like trying to gather more information for yourself, because I work with a lot of students where it’s like, what if I do this? And they’re kind of like, projecting out there? And like, what if? I don’t know, and it’s like, we gotta just get some more info. So it feels like a little bit more prepared. DAVID: I’d be the type of guy that’s like, huh, yeah, what if? Do it, let’s see what happens. Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Right. DAVID: Pour it back. Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Yeah, I agree with that. I think that networking and community building is really everything. And, you know, we know that there’s a higher statistic in finding job placement through networking, rather than, you know, again, sending your resume out into some automated system or something like that. I would also say definitely use our services as a plug for our office again, you know, if you need support, please book with us, you know, we’re happy to help you in so many different ways. And also too I would just say that, you know, some of the things that we practice at Naropa, as far as like, embodiment, and mindfulness and contemplative based practices, we’ve been doing this forever, you know, like, this is the foundation of the school and the foundation of the education that the students are receiving. And now it’s very trendy, you know, to be mindful and contemplative and these are kind of like the taglines that folks are looking for. So I guess I’d also want the students to know like, how often employers are calling us and they’re asking directly for Naropa students, or they’re asking us to post jobs on our job board and things like that it’s because they’re really seeking out these skills, which we kind of all innately have, at least maybe that’s a piece of why people have shown up in Naropa and want to be a part of the university. So that feels really good for our students that there’s a little bit of an element of like, you’re already kind of like ahead of the game a little bit and stuff like that. DAVID: Wonderful. All right, well, I feel like this is pretty informative. You know, it’s — it’s really interesting to learn that as an alum myself, like, I can come back and use these services. So if you are an alum, you can use them. And if you’re a student, you can use them. And I don’t think you can use it if you’re not a student. So, you know, it’s kind of like more of a student based thing. But if you are a student, and if you are an alum, can you just let the people know where to find you and how they can reach out? Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Yeah, so if you go to the naropa.edu, we have a career — Career and Life Development page. And there it’s just big like a button to book an appointment with our office. DAVID: It’s this big yellow one I’m looking at, right? Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: There you go. DAVID: Schedule a session. Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: That is it. DAVID: All right. Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Right there. DAVID: Well, thank you so much for speaking with us today. And I hope this was very informative to our Naropa student body and also our alums and faculty and anyone else that may utilize this, and I do appreciate you coming out on this violently windy day and made it into the house. Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Yes, we made it. I didn’t blow away on my way. Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Thank you so much for having us. Jessica DelCastillo & Danielle Swaser: Thank you. DAVID: You’re welcome. Take care. [MUSIC] On behalf of the Naropa community, thank you for listening to Mindful U. The official podcast of Naropa University. Check us out at www.naropa.edu or follow us on social media for more updates.