Caitlin Winkley
"Blending the Spiritual with the Practical" Life Coaching


[MUSIC]

Hello. And welcome to Mindful U at Naropa. A podcast presented by Naropa University in Boulder, Colorado. I'm your host David Devine. And it's a pleasure to welcome you. Joining the best of Eastern and Western educational traditions -- Naropa is the birthplace of the modern mindfulness movement.

[MUSIC]

[00:00:45.05] 
DAVID:
Hello, today I'd like to welcome Caitlin Winkley. Caitlin is an alum of Naropa - graduating in 2008 from the early childhood education program and she is also a life coach with her own business spreading her wisdom and knowledge amongst the community. And I would just like to welcome you.

[00:01:02.13] 
Caitlin Winkley:
Thank you. I'm so glad to be here.

[00:01:04.12] 
DAVID:
Yeah. Anything else you'd like to share with us?

[00:01:07.08] 
Caitlin Winkley:
Yeah. I'd love to catch you up to speed on what has been going on in my life since finishing Naropa in 2008. So, I originally thought I wanted to work with children. Which I did for a long time. I was a nanny and I was a teacher at a Montessori school and it was through that process that I realized I love teaching but the medium of working with children really wasn't for me - although of course, I love children. I really wanted to work with adults. 

And so, when I got offered a full time teaching job - in 2013 - I decided to decline that offer and start a life coaching business. And that's what I've been doing ever since. 

[00:01:49.13] 
DAVID:
Ok.

[00:01:50.07] 
Caitlin Winkley:
Yeah.

[00:01:50.22] 
DAVID:
So, what is a life coach? What does a life coach do? Apparently, you've been doing this for a while and for some people who don't know what a life coach is and coming to it for their first time how can you explain that to them?

[00:02:03.10] 
Caitlin Winkley:
Sure. My personal definition of a life coach -- is somebody who helps guide other people into being their best self. Into creating a life that really feels aligned with who they are. 

And, what I mean by that - because I can sound a little bit airy fairy - is a simpler way of putting it is helping people achieve life goals. So, let's say somebody is at point A and they want to get point B. I am somebody who will guide them from point A to point B and often times to get from point A to point B there can be blocks that are standing in the way. Or there can be unhelpful patterns that are playing out in preventing them from getting to A to B. 

So, I have been called a blockbuster, a patter breaker, a root excavator -- all of those terms. So, somebody will come to me - usually with a challenge, an issue, a goal in sight and I will help make that possible for them. 

[00:03:09.11] 
DAVID:
Awesome. So, you're a blockage professional?

[00:03:13.04] 
Caitlin Winkley:
Yeah. I like that.

[00:03:15.01] 
DAVID:
When you say point A to point B - what are some point B's that some people have? Is it spirit? Is it relationships? Is it career? Financial? You know all these different things that we run into - is it just a bunch of different stuff? Is it all of them?

[00:03:30.07] 
Caitlin Winkley:
I'd say all of the above. I am a very spiritually based person. A spiritually based professional. And, people will come to me because they are interested in that aspect. So, getting from point A to point B - we are bringing spirit into the equation and by spirit, I mean - higher self. The part of you that never dies. The part of you that is connected to the intelligence of the universe. We are inviting that energy to come into the equation. And then from that place when we invite that energy in - we can look at those blocks. Whether that is financial, career, personal, relationship, health, wellness. So, it doesn't matter where the challenge is. Because that is the external. What I find is that - when we invite spirit to come into the equation usually the original problem that the person comes to me for - itÕs never about that original problem. There is usually something hidden. Something else hidden that is going on and when we get to the bottom of that - naturally that problem starts to sort itself out. And I will say - the hidden things usually pertain to an area where the person is not loving themselves - where they are not valuing themselves. Where they are not believing that they are not good enough. I call those core wounds and when we start to heal that external challenge naturally starts to sort itself out.

[00:04:58.23] 
DAVID:
Sounds like you're a self-love coach?

[00:05:01.19] 
Caitlin Winkley:
Yeah, I would say that is a huge, huge part of it. Yeah.

[00:05:05.14] 
DAVID:
Something we can all work on I bet?

[00:05:07.11] 
Caitlin Winkley:
Absolutely. I continue to work on that with myself all the time. 

[00:05:11.06] 
DAVID:
Yeah. Awesome. Thanks for sharing. So, what was the topic that you wanted to talk about today? Because I know in the life coaching business there might be some struggle that you kind of deal with or things that you have to foresee that you don't normally foresee in a normal career?

[00:05:26.12] 
Caitlin Winkley:
Yes. Today, I was hoping we could talk about blending the spiritual with the practical. And perhaps busting some myths and maybe providing some tips on what it means to run a business from a spiritual advantage point. So, I think when it comes to the term life coach or any other spiritual profession - I think some of the myths are that you can use the law of attraction and I am a believer in the law of attraction - don't get me wrong. But you can use the law of attraction and you can just manifest clients or money into your life and although I believe that - I think the element that gets left behind in talking about the law of attraction and manifestation is showing up and actually doing the practical work. 

[00:06:17.02] 
DAVID:
So, what does the practical work look like?

[00:06:20.07] 
Caitlin Winkley:
Well, I think it means showing up every day. And, when you show up every day sometimes you're going to hear a no. Sometimes you might produce a piece of content that nobody cares about. Nobody liked. Sometimes you might experience you know in my business maybe a lull uh maybe especially in the beginning when you're building, you're growing and uh you don't have any clients or you just have a couple and you have to keep showing up day in and day out because often times I find that when you show up and you think nothing is happening there is stuff happening - itÕs just behind the scenes that you can't yet see. So, you keep showing up. You keep doing the work and then sooner or later the stuff that has been happening behind the scenes as a result of your effort - then that does get manifested you know into physical form and you get the clients and you get the money, but I think you know if you're just focusing on positive thinking - I think that's incomplete. I think you can use positive thinking, but at the same time - you have to - do the little steps along the way that you might not feel like always doing.

[00:07:28.17] 
DAVID:
Yeah, I feel that. There is something about thinking positively that does go a certain distance but then there is a moment where the positive thinking ends, and the work takes over. But also doing the work with positive attitude but you know sometimes you can show up a little here and there with your emotions, but still being able to show up all the time.

[00:07:50.04] 
Caitlin Winkley:
Yes, absolutely. And showing up all the time - you know depending on your profession but for me - with my life coaching line of work - that might mean like I was saying especially in the beginning - continuing to put yourself out there. I get a lot of my clients via online. So, continuing - I use a lot of content marketing. Continuing to create - even when I think nobody is paying attention. Yes, continuing to do admin work - that's also a big part of it. Scheduling, budgeting - I write after session notes for my clients. I - you know I have different forms just little things - little stuff in in the office that are annoying - that you might not feel like doing, but again you have to do it as a business owner and you continue to do things and then you really reap the rewards. But another misconception I'd like to bring up is I think that we live in an instant gratification culture. And, I think again with that law of attraction piece we think I can start this life coaching business - I think itÕs a very glamorized field right now. I think itÕs wonderful that its growing, but I think the under belly of that is a misconception of what it really looks like.

Practically speaking that you know - make this amount of money within your first year while that might be the case for some - uh my experience was more slow growth. I am doing very well right now. I have a full client load. We have a wait list which is fantastic, but it did take you know 4 or 5 years to get there.  I had to go through the first year. I had part time jobs. I hustled. I house cleaned - I babysat. I did jobs I didn't like because I saw uh a higher vision for myself and I was working towards that, so I guess what I am trying to say is to not be afraid to do things that you don't like because you see a grander vision. 

[00:09:48.17] 
DAVID:
Also, to not give up on your goals. So, if you have a dream you have a passion. You have something you are driven towards -- its too redefine in your mind what it means to you to make that happen. Because some of the definitions that we hold onto maybe not serve us in the moment for what we actually want. 

[00:10:05.09] 
Caitlin Winkley:
Yes. Absolutely. If you have a goal and you're feeling that goal with every fiber of your being - and letÕs say you go for it and you receive a no in some form. Does that no mean that you shouldn't continue? Not if you're feeling that goal in every fiber of your being - that just means that wasn't the right opportunity. So, you keep knocking on the doors until you find the door that opens, and we know this with so many widely successful people that had to get rejected and experience so many no's before they finally got that big yes. So, don't give up uh just because you're hearing a no or because it looks like things are going your way.

[00:10:45.05] 
DAVID:
No's hurt.

[00:10:46.19] 
Caitlin Winkley:
Uh, they sting. 

[00:10:48.15] 
DAVID:
But what's hurting is the emotion - the ego body. ItÕs not necessarily the like actual soul - the soul is just kind of like oh - ok I see that. Now, what's next. So, don't take the no as such a - that's it. Next, move on. You know? It can be food. ItÕs like soil. Soil isn't always this beautiful thing. It can be some stuff that makes the flowers fragrance so much brighter.

[00:11:15.18] 
Caitlin Winkley:
Yes, it can be compost, right?

[00:11:18.07] 
DAVID:
It can be the compost. I don't want to say --

[00:11:20.01] 
Caitlin Winkley:
I said it. 

[00:11:22.03] 
DAVID:
Awesome. Cool. Well it sounds like there is a lot of things we run into as life coaches and life is very difficult and it seems very interesting to help someone along their way and there are problems and kind of figuring and itÕs like what are you working with?

[00:11:37.22] 
Caitlin Winkley:
Yeah. Absolutely. And, honestly, I did complete a three year training at a program called the University of Spiritual Healing. I did that in conjunction with going to Naropa and that's where I received my formal training where I learned how to work one on one with clients, but I will say the best training came from me doing my own personal work and through navigating challenge. I've experienced a lot of my own personal challenges and that really laid the field work for how I can - help other people because I think the best coaches, the best teachers, the best guides are those who have experienced some of the biggest pain because they've been there. They've been in the trenches. And, it would be hard to receive guidance from somebody who has no experience sorting through life challenge and pain and suffering.

[00:12:32.21] 
DAVID:
So, when you say spiritual - what does that mean? Is it over there like Christian, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhist - when you say spiritual like how does that encapsulate into the coaching style?

[00:12:45.12] 
Caitlin Winkley:
Sure. The word spiritual for me simply means the way in which one relates to spirit. And, I am not so much concerned about how people relate to spirit, but just rather that that channel is open for some kind of a relationship. And, spirit for me is life force. It is the energy that is present in all living things. It is the intelligence that causes the flower's petals to open. The intelligence that gives birth to a baby. It is what gives life to us. And, I think when we have a relationship to that life force - its - helps us live life in a way that we wouldnÕt be able to live life just on our own. In a way that supports us because we have access to this entire level of intelligence then we would be able to access just through our bodies, just through our egos.

[00:13:46.18] 
DAVID:
It feels like the word spirit today - it can mean so many different things. So, I was just a little curious on your - how you channel that. How is your channels open? Cool, so here is a question for you -- what are some of the stereotypes you run into when it comes to being a life coach? Do you ever tell someone your career path and they are like oh, I've heard of them before? Or anything like that?

[00:14:11.02] 
Caitlin Winkley:
To be honest with you - I used to be embarrassed to tell people I was a life coach. 

[00:14:17.22] 
DAVID:
Why?

[00:14:18.09] 
Caitlin Winkley:
Well, itÕs an unregulated field. So that means anybody can be a life coach. And, I do believe - you know people have sheer raw talent that they are born with coupled with experience and perhaps your own educational background absolutely. Sometimes formal training can be incredibly helpful to learn techniques and mechanics and all of that. But, one thing I think of the biggest stereotypes of being a life coach is sometimes I think it gets portrayed on social media - I'm in my cheeky bottom at the beach with my laptop sipping a pina colada --

[00:14:56.07] 
DAVID:
Life coaching away.

[00:14:57.09] 
Caitlin Winkley:
Yeah, life coaching away.

[00:14:58.21] 
DAVID:
Let me tell you that you can do this too.

[00:15:01.03] 
Caitlin Winkley:
Yes. Yes. So, I think you know social media wise I think it can get portrayed as more of a lifestyle. That if you choose this profession you too can go to the beach and coach in your bikini. And, hey I'm all about creating an ideal lifestyle. I think that is beautiful. I think that is awesome. I certainly value abundance, but I think there is just a lot more to it than that Instagram snapshot. That's all.

[00:15:32.15] 
DAVID:
Yeah. Like you've been saying - putting in the work. And that's where the manifestation happens. Ok. So, when it comes to life coaching people, I am sure your life gets this thing going on with it as well where you are experiencing other people's stuff and then you might take that home with you - how do you coach yourself? How do you regulate yourself? How do you self-love? How do you kind of like keep yourself alive and open and willing to do this work?

[00:16:03.12] 
Caitlin Winkley:
That's a great question. Number one, you have to have really strong boundaries. And the definition of a boundary for me - is knowing exactly where you stand. So, that's knowing how many clients to take on per week - feel comfortable for me. How many hours in the day do I want to spend in session? What type of people do I actually want to work with? And, knowing what your skills. Is somebody coming to me with something that I actually don't feel qualified to guide them on? All of that I will put under the category of a boundary. Or that is client life coach relationship. You know where do I draw the line in that type of relationship? And, you know - it is a work in progress, but once I started to get really clear on where I stand as a life coach and what feels good to me in regard to all of that - then the next step is that self-care piece which you're speaking of. And, for me how I move energy is through body movement. So, at the end of the day - I have to do something physical. So that could be a hike. That could be a yoga class. That could be - going to the gym. Going for a run. Just something physical because that allows me to move energy through my body and just cycle through whatever - whatever emotions I may have picked up through the day. Yeah.

[00:17:21.18] 
DAVID:
Nice little tools there. Awesome. So, you were talking about like meeting with sessions and having people and having limit and boundaries and all this - what does session look like. Personally, I've never experienced a life coach session. So, I'm a little confused on kind of how they go - like what do you talk about. Like I am pretty sure its perspective and personal depending on the person and what they're looking for, but I am sure there is also an outline on how they roll. Can you kind of share us with that?

[00:17:50.16] 
Caitlin Winkley:
Absolutely. Every client that I work with I find has a theme in their life. And, to discover this theme - it can be very clear to me within the first session or sometimes it can take a few sessions to develop. And, I'll say there's an overall theme and then under that theme there are patterns, there are blocks - all of the sub topics that get brought up. All funnel into the one theme. So, let me give you an example.

I had a coaching session earlier this morning. And the overall theme of this particular client is showing up in her life. And that just stems from you know stuff that went on in her childhood and some sub topics under that theme is she was struggling with having to be perfect. So, of course if you feel like you're not going to totally nail something out of the park - what are you going to do? You're not going to show up. Right, you're not even going to try uh she also has had some challenges with commitment and consistency. So, when I was able to take a bird's eye view at her life - I was able to pull up that one theme and then I could see oh my goodness all of these patterns funnel into one that theme. So, I don't ever work just one time - well I actually do offer like a one time break through session - but that's more rare, but typically I only offer packages. And - and the wisdom behind that again is because I want to get in touch with the theme in the person's life and then help them bust through the blockages and the patterns so that they can live you know a life of greater peace and ease and juiced up.

[00:19:19.22] 
DAVID:
Yeah, seems as though there is a narrative that everyone is saying. That they may not know is being said until someone else can reflect to them and it kind of seems like what you do - you're the unblocker reflectioniss.

[00:19:35.11] 
Caitlin Winkley:
Yeah, well that's it -- right, so as a matter of fact - I start off every - every first session I have - so I give homework assignments after the session. And every first session I have - the first assignment is I invite my clients to journal out their story. We call it the narrative same deal, right. And then we work on rewriting it. So, what part of the story do we want to hold on to that is actually helpful and productive in your life? And, what part of the story is outdated? Is some limiting beliefs that you picked up along the childhood that you are still holding onto, but we need to refresh the browser on?

[00:20:08.23] 
DAVID:
Yeah, lately I've been a fan of redefining what - what is relevant to you. You know when you have like a word in your mind and it has a definition - imagine the imaginary eraser erasing it and redefining it in how it relates to you at this moment.

[00:20:24.15] 
Caitlin Winkley:
Absolutely. Well, here is the thing we're constantly growing right. So, what was true for you 10 years ago - might not be true for you today. So - so you're right. We have to constantly be refreshing where we're at. Where we are headed and is our current story or current narrative matching - matching those outline goals?

[00:20:45.12] 
DAVID:
Match the goals. Just keep going. And goals shift too.

[00:20:49.11] 
Caitlin Winkley:
They do.

[00:20:49.23] 
DAVID:
And that's like totally fine. Just shift your goals and who knows maybe you have a goal and then all of the sudden when you're actually working towards it -- you realize that wasn't the goal in the first place, but it was a direction that you do want to go into. 

[00:21:02.05] 
Caitlin Winkley:
Yes. Uh that can happen too. So, we will call that trial and error sometimes. 

[00:21:07.04] 
DAVID:
Oh yeah that thing. So, when it comes to your clients - it seems as though you've helped a lot of different people in their lives. Have you noticed is there a similarity on how everyone shows up? Or is every client completely different. Is there similarities? Is there differences? I am kind of curious - the same type of people show up to get life coached?

[00:21:30.15] 
Caitlin Winkley:
At this point, I'd say I've worked with hundreds of people and - I can start to see patterns. Yep.

[00:21:38.02] 
DAVID:
Yep, I'm a pattern noticier. So that was kind of like my question. So, you like touched on it. 

[00:21:43.19] 
Caitlin Winkley:
Yes, so I can start to see patterns within different personality types - and different structures. And different templates and different psychologies. And itÕs really cool because the more people I work obviously the more patterns identify - ah I've seen this before. Ok, I know what worked with this person. Let's try this over here. You know let's see if this is going to work with you too.

[00:22:06.23] 
DAVID:
Interesting.

[00:22:07.05] 
Caitlin Winkley:
Different issues because everyone has got a different story they come with, but the way that people relate to their issues that's where I see the patterns. So, is this person you know totally overcompensating. Or is this person really shutting down. That's what I mean by how they relate to the challenge. Yeah.

[00:22:25.07] 
DAVID:
Challenges. 

[00:22:26.06] 
Caitlin Winkley:
Challenges.

[00:22:28.03] 
DAVID:
Challenge is. Awesome. So, how I sort of see patterns in myself. There is this sense of you know we collect all these little things. I think of them as like little broken pieces of tile and then you just place them everywhere, but then if you take a kind of like telescopic view of it - then itÕs a mosaic. You actually create a picture you know so itÕs like we have all these little things that we're - we're taking and we're building our life but then if you zoom out then you can see what's actually happening. And that's what life coaching seems like. You have the - the macro view. The cosmic view of what's going on in life.

[00:23:05.04] 
Caitlin Winkley:
That's it. Because itÕs hard to see yourself when we're in our self, right? We need that altering perspective. 

[00:23:10.20] 
DAVID:
Totally. So, as a Naropa graduate and then someone who has a contemplative education degree in the early childhood education program - how has that informed your life coaching business? How has contemplativeness informed what you do now with people?

[00:23:30.13] 
Caitlin Winkley:
Something I -- really admire about the Naropa program is the way that all of my teachers showed up in the classroom. And, me being a teacher now - I find myself really emulating a lot of what they did, which is - when I was a student and I mean I am still a student - I am a teacher and a student. We always are, right, but when I was a student in the classroom my teachers always saw my innate wisdom. They really valued what I had to say. They did not appear to put themselves on a pedestal even though they were the ones teaching the curriculum. I felt like it was a give and take relationship and I always always felt valued. And I try to bring that element into my coaching sessions as well because hey my clients are the biggest expert on who they are and if I can clear out some of the blockages and pattern so that they can see themselves better and then report back to me their findings then that is just beautiful. 

[00:24:26.11] 
DAVID:
Yeah. How many sessions does it normally take for someone to - to discover the path on their own or be self-empowered or is it kind of continuous with some people or is there is a certain type of people that just need one session. They're like oh my god thank you so much - inspiration and they're off. 

[00:24:44.04] 
Caitlin Winkley:
So, I typically start all of my clients off on an 8 week coaching program. And each week has a different module. And, what I do is regardless of the challenge or the issue it gets plugged into this particular module and I came up with this after working again with hundreds of clients and seeing really what works. And, I find after the 8 weeks - clients experience transformation - the extent of the transformation is dependent upon the work that they put in. And on their background up until this point. Some people come to me and they are perhaps new on the spiritual path and that's wonderful - itÕs so beautiful that they may have had a recent breakthrough or a pain in their life that has now lead down this path. Or there is other people that have been traveling down this path for years and years and they might just need a little tune up. I've got long term clients who I have been working with for a year plus. I have people that just pop in for those 8 sessions and then they are solid. ItÕs really dependent on the individual. 

[00:25:41.13] 
DAVID:
Yeah, I kind of figured that was going to be the answer, but I was just kind of curious to see if you had anything else to say about it? That was fun. All right, so we got a couple minutes left and I'm kind of curious - do you have any insightful tools, any tricks, any techniques that you'd like to share with us that seems to work maybe? Maybe like a - life coach send us off?

[00:26:06.13] 
Caitlin Winkley:
Sure. I am going to provide a tool that is helpful if you are a life coach and or if you want to become one or a business owner of any kind or - just a citizen of the world. And that is - be willing to feel uncomfortable!

[00:26:22.10] 
DAVID:
What? No.

[00:26:23.04] 
Caitlin Winkley:
LAUGHS

[00:26:25.10] 
DAVID:
Wait a minute.

[00:26:26.01] 
Caitlin Winkley:
Yes, oh my goodness as simple as it sounds it is so incredibly profound because let's face it - when you are showing up new - whether you are creating something new, you're trying something new, you're thinking about something new - itÕs going to feel uncomfortable because you've never traveled down that terrain before. Anything unknown - I find all unknowns are an invitation for fear to come in. Because when we haven't tried something itÕs scary, its fearful and that's really cesspool for discomfort. If we're willing to hang out in that discomfort - growth is bound to happen.

[00:27:02.19] 
DAVID:
Yeah, thanks for sharing. I've also heard that fear vibrates the same as excitement. So, don't confuse fear with excitement because one of them can actually serve you a little bit more - obviously.

[00:27:16.18] 
Caitlin Winkley:
That's amazing. I've never hear that. I love that though.

[00:27:19.03] 
DAVID:
Yeah, it tastes good. 

[00:27:20.03] 
Caitlin Winkley:
Yeah.

[00:27:21.01] 
DAVID:
Awesome. Well, thanks for speaking with us today. 

[00:27:22.19] 
Caitlin Winkley:
Thank you so much for having me. ItÕs been a pleasure. I'd also love to share that right now I am creating my own life coaching training program. And if anybody happens to be interested in becoming a life coach themselves - I've created a wonderful 6 month program where the first two months consist of personal life coaching one on one with me. The next two months consist of learning specific tools and techniques of how to work one on one in session with people as a life coach. And the final two months consist of how to create a lucrative business for yourself as a life coach including marketing, branding, all of that jazz.

[00:28:02.21] 
DAVID:
Awesome. So how do we reach you?

[00:28:05.03] 
Caitlin Winkley:
So, you can go to caitlinwinkley.com

[00:28:08.12] 
DAVID:
Awesome. Thank you for sharing.

[00:28:10.04] 
Caitlin Winkley:
Thank you.

[00:28:11.19] 
DAVID:
So, I'd like to thank Caitlin Winkley who is an alum of Naropa University - graduating in the early childhood education program and also doing her lovely life coach wisdom knowledge community sharing. 

[00:28:25.17] 
Caitlin Winkley:
Thank you.

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On behalf of the Naropa community thank you for listening to Mindful U. The official podcast of Naropa University. Check us out at www.naropa.edu or follow us on social media for more updates.   

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