Marlow Brooks "Dancing Through Life with the 5 Elements" [MUSIC] Hello. And welcome to Mindful U at Naropa. A podcast presented by Naropa University in Boulder, Colorado. I'm your host David Devine. And it's a pleasure to welcome you. Joining the best of Eastern and Western educational traditions -- Naropa is the birthplace of the modern mindfulness movement. [MUSIC] Hello. Today, I'd like to welcome Marlow Brooks to the podcast. Marlow is a faculty member teaching in the BA Contemplative Psychology program for the last 20 years. She is also a graduate of the Worsley Institute of Classic Acupuncture along with that she is an artist and a writer of many books. So, welcome to the podcast. [00:01:05.02] MARLOW BROOKS: Thank you. [00:01:06.09] DAVID DEVINE: And, from what I know you were a former student of Trungpa back in the day and I am just curious how was that coming to Naropa in the early years teaching from the lineage holder of Naropa -- like how was that for you? [00:01:21.02] MARLOW BROOKS: It was extremely exciting. I... I was a single mother with two little tiny kids. And, heard about Naropa and somebody had turned me onto Trungpa Rinpoche's books and then I put the two together and I looked at the catalog and I was just like I've got to go. I've got to find out about this place. And at that point, I already had two degrees, so it wasn't a university like it is now. It was just a place where an enormous amount of really exciting people in the arts, in environmentalism and you know in those days uh -- performance, writing, many different takes on spirituality so it was a gathering of people that Trungpa Rinpoche -- you could say on some level orchestrated or his vision orchestrated. So, it wasn't just centered around him in that sense. His talks were utterly amazing. He'd give talks maybe I don't know how many times a week. And, they were wonderful. And I was -- incredibly inspired by what he was saying. But then all the way through we were also -- there was wonderful conversation going on in classes and poetry readings and uh -- dance concerts and all sorts of things going on at that time. Uh where people were really having amazing conversations. And so, there were parties after you know whatever was going on. And, we bonded. And, we bonded about a new vision. But the vision was coming from many, many different people. And that was sort of - uh Trungpa's magic you know there were rabbis. There were Christian priests. There were Buckminister Fuller. [00:03:25.11] DAVID DEVINE: Oh really? [00:03:25.22] MARLOW BROOKS: Oh yeah. Uh Ram Dass and you know I mean it was just a whole gathering of people that - that in their own right had many - had wonderful things to say. And, to talk about. So, I was thrilled. I was absolutely thrilled. I felt like I had finally come home. [00:03:46.04] DAVID DEVINE: Oh that is so good. I love hearing the diversity of thought. The diversity of spiritual direction and everyone coming together and just holding space for each other - listening to everyone's ideas. Developing their ideas even further from just the space that they are holding together and that's what it sounds like. It was just magic was being watered and nurtured throughout this moment and Trungpa was kind of the calling of the people. [00:04:13.01] MARLOW BROOKS: Yeah, and the thing that -- as you speak what I realize the -- the brand new thing for me was -- and this comes from the ancient traditions of contemplative traditions from many - any source. Was that we were working - I was working a lot in the theater department and we were learning about the power of space. So, and that had never -- I had studied art extensively. I'd -- you know -- studied philosophy -- Western philosophies, psychology, literature -- all those kinds of things before, but I had never been exposed to this concept of the power of - of spaciousness. And openness. And authenticity. And, so that was you know when you talk about the magic -- it was that everybody was exploring that. So, when we were in a theater class -- it wasn't just about expressing yourself. It wasn't about embodying the character -- the way you would embody the character is give it enough space so that you could feel it your body. Or your psychology. And, people again were coming at all sorts of disciplines with that very ancient Asian view. That when one actually honors that sense of emptiness or space or whatever you want to call it -- that's when things come alive. [00:05:45.09] DAVID DEVINE: Seems like spatial awareness is applicable to any sort of way of thought. [00:05:51.06] MARLOW BROOKS: Anything. [00:05:51.10] DAVID DEVINE: Or any practice that you might have. So, within your introduction it said you worked at Naropa for 20 years. That's quite a long time. [00:06:00.06] MARLOW BROOKS: It is a long time. [00:06:00.12] DAVID DEVINE: ItÕs quite a privilege to be there from the beginning. How has that sit with you -- like what is it like teaching somewhere over a long period of time with the contemplative model seeing students come and go and you know you find these teachings that you're giving them, and they are like - you are just seeing the excitement just roll through. Like what is that like for you? [00:06:19.10] MARLOW BROOKS: Its uh -- consistently wonderful. LAUGHS. [00:06:24.06] DAVID DEVINE: All right. I like this. [00:06:25.19] MARLOW BROOKS: Basically, I teach -- I continue to teach and I haven't missed a semester because I - I actually do fall in love with the students and my class is not -- you don't have to take it. So, every -- every semester a lot of people show up. Huge - you know itÕs always overbooked. There is always a waiting list and then once I start to sort of explore -- we jump in right away. And, once I sort of blatantly explore what we're going to explore with everybody -- the people that don't feel comfortable with that type of openness -- you could call it. Just naturally leave and then I'm - I'm left with these groups of people that are really fun -- and provocative to work with. And, the wisdom of these young people -- and most of them are young -- we always have some oldsters too -- is a delight for me to communicate with. So, itÕs not just me teaching -- itÕs something collaborative starts to happen and build that is very satisfying and very inspiring. [00:07:34.21] DAVID DEVINE: And, just to shout you out -- I actually took your class. So, I was a student of yours and that's kind of like how I know you a little bit deeper than just your interview person to me. I took your class -- it was one of my favorite classes and I learned so much about myself. I actually modeled my thesis project around the 5 elements. [00:07:55.06] MARLOW BROOKS: I know you did. [00:07:55.06] DAVID DEVINE: So, I was - I was into the I-ching and just Chinese philosophy before I even came to Naropa and then meeting you and meeting your class just like opened up so much more. I just did my whole thesis project around this way of thought. [00:08:10.00] MARLOW BROOKS: You did that huge performance. It was amazing. [00:08:12.08] DAVID DEVINE: It was fun. And I have never had to write a 35 page paper about music in my life. So, the approach was so much different than just playing music. It was actually conceptualizing an idea and writing it down to explain it to someone who is not hearing the music. You also read my thesis project. You were one of my editors. [00:08:33.13] MARLOW BROOKS: Yes. [00:08:33.13] DAVID DEVINE: So that was fun. So, you teach this class called The Five Elements. [00:08:38.19] MARLOW BROOKS: The Psychology of the Five Elements. [00:08:40.06] DAVID DEVINE: Can you describe what that is. Like to someone who is just walking and looking at like the -- what class should I take, and they are seeing that. How would you describe that to them? Like what are they going to walk into? [00:08:51.21] MARLOW BROOKS: They're going to walk into a class that's based on uh -- solid healing wisdom that goes back 2500 years. So, itÕs based in the ancient Chinese way of you could call it acupuncture but itÕs also very Daoist so there a sense of you know there is about three lineages that the Daoist tradition, the Buddhist tradition and the Confucius a little bit that came together in China. So, again its multi-dimensional. China was that way. And this whole class is based on the view that if you understand nature -- deeply enough. You understand how nature works. For instance, like the sun is really hot. So, if you put a fern out in the sun. So, a fern could be a person, right. A fern could be a shy quiet person, right? So, if you put a fern out in the sun, they are going wilt. So, itÕs kind of a no brainer approach to uh the human predicament of being very diverse and very different. So, nature is the learning tool. And, uh working from nature and that includes not just nature outside of trees and plants and so on, but itÕs also your own nature. So, through the process of the class one has to connect with for instance ok the sun. That's very connected -- again we had all of this medical tradition comes from old, old medical techs which are as you mentioned I-ching and itÕs the coming from the Nanjing which is the companion value of the I-ching. So, this is 2000 or long, long, long time ago. And, again, itÕs a no brainer approach in the sense that if you are a fire type person for instance you're a sun kind of person. You like to be out in the sun. You like heat. You like passion. You want to lead. Well, we see that those kinds of people have great sense of humors. They have great heart uh but they can burn themselves out. So, you know that kind of thing. ItÕs all based on the -- the circle of the seasons. So, fire is like the summer season. So, if you're a fire type person people start recognizing themselves as that way where you can burn out. You are going to need to take a rest. Whereas a water type person - so then we are talking about winter. We're talking about being in the depths under the ground -- maybe like a ball on the ground. A lot of times gathering potency. You're gathering wisdom. And to go into situations where there is a lot of fire might actually feel threatening to you. So, in this day and age a lot of people that have propensity for water think they are depressed. Or they think they are too serious. Or whatever. So, a lot of it is also through this class learning to accept yourself. And then learning to accept the difference in others. You know that they really have different ways of coming into their own. [00:12:09.00] DAVID DEVINE: There is a lot of character development within understanding how other people function and at the same time how you function and like what you gravitate towards. What you work with. So, you touched a little bit about some of the elements. Can you just go ahead and describe each element. Because there is 5 of them. And they all work together. And they have like destruction and creation cycles. There is like all these interplays within each other so can you just kind of describe to the listener what each element does and is? [00:12:39.14] MARLOW BROOKS: The elements go exactly with the cycle of the seasons. So, if we start like I was just describing -- if we start in winter -- then in winter - if we were a plant for instance all of our sap would be pulled way down and in if we were in this climate here let's say in Colorado. And, if we were a tulip we would be in the bulb -- the bulb season. And it -- what I explain to students is, so we do an actual exercise -- we imagine ourselves a tulip bulb. [00:13:15.17] DAVID DEVINE: I remember this one. [00:13:15.17] MARLOW BROOKS: You remember that? The tulip bulb is brown, crusty -- doesn't look like anything and its freezing cold outside and there is pressure of the ice on you. And at the same this tulip bulb knows exactly who it is. It knows itÕs going to be a tulip. So, what we then connect with human nature is when you are born you know who you are. So, I've written a book with 20 Naropa students called, "Singing Your Heart's Song." So, you have a song to sing from the minute you are born. And if you look at baby as they -- very small baby -- although I've had three children myself and they are -- majorly different. From the minute they were born I could see what they were like. And one is screaming bloody murder and she is passionate, and she is out there. And my son -- the minute he was born he is looking at me carefully thinking who are you anyway and what am I doing here? And my third daughter was patting me and cuddling, and you know just completely different. So -- [00:14:19.16] DAVID DEVINE: So, they show elemental -- [00:14:21.11] MARLOW BROOKS: Immediately. Immediately. [00:14:23.07] DAVID DEVINE: Right away. [00:14:23.18] MARLOW BROOKS: Right, and so then again, the compassionate approach is that you give that person the kind of energy that is going to nurture them into the person that they will - they could become. So, in the terms of to go back to this cycle of seasons -- in terms of winter -- these are the deep people. These are people -- deep thinkers. They -- a water person values truth above all. So, a fire person might not really care. They say tell me a lie -- I'd be happier. You know but -- but with the water person truth is it. And, you -- so you find that essence of who you are. So, part of this class is getting to this essence of who we are in water. And then from there -- you can grow. From this bulb. From this essence, uh you can grow which is starting to be wood in spring. You can actually grow in the direction that you're resonant with. So, you know a fern grows more in a shady direction uh a palm tree grows into direct sun. So again, you watch -- you can feel this. You see this in other people. You -- see it in nature. And a tree will grow around for instance as you shoot your bulb up uh to get up through the frozen ground in the spring -- it might hit a rock. And then you -- part of the -- the energy of wood is it is growing with such determination that it can grow around the rock. Or it can grow through a crack in a sidewalk or whatever. So, there is -- from this truth of who you are there is an enormous sense of thrusting growth that happens in the Spring. So, these are wood people and they tend to be visionary. They have a lot of energy. They like to be in charge. [00:16:20.06] DAVID DEVINE: Like moving forward. [00:16:21.09] MARLOW BROOKS: Yes, moving toward the sun. [00:16:23.11] DAVID DEVINE: Consistent development and wanting to grow. [00:16:26.17] MARLOW BROOKS: With each one of these elements there is also a sound of voice. There is a smell. There is an emotion. [00:16:32.10] DAVID DEVINE: There is a color. [00:16:32.10] MARLOW BROOKS: Yes, and a color. So, the students are learning how to recognize those in other people too. So, somebody that is talking like this you know is that that's the wood coming out. And somebody that is talking like this -- is more water. You can hear that the voice could be somewhat gravely and not have enough fluid. [00:16:56.21] DAVID DEVINE: Submerged. [00:16:57.06] MARLOW BROOKS: And again, itÕs all -- its all physiological as well. This is why itÕs so exciting basically. Because it goes right through body, mind, spirit. So, we've done the wood you know there is the shouting voice and there is a green face that is connected with the liver and the gallbladder and -- [00:17:14.22] DAVID DEVINE: Like on forth -- here we go! [00:17:17.14] MARLOW BROOKS: And follow me. You know itÕs definitely they want to be -- and the people that are woods who is parents or schools have taught them not to be so big -- or not to be so bossy -- you know can kind of walk around with a lid on their head a lot of times. And, so then how do we open up that part of the medicine is how do you open up that possibility that they can actually move around the rock. [00:17:44.04] DAVID DEVINE: I really like hearing that. There is something good about like understanding the qualities in which we all intuitively given upon birth. ItÕs just part of -- like you are saying you're having babies and then all of the sudden you can just see the characteristics instantly in them. ItÕs not -- and there are developmental characteristics along the way, but instead of like saying like hey you should be this way even though you tend to default to something else itÕs -- this class is showing you the skillfulness to how to work with those things and sometimes there are intensities within it. But also realize other people have different elemental processes. And then within learning that you can function with them -- and I know there is another element we haven't talked about. This is earth. [00:18:27.18] MARLOW BROOKS: We have to go around the cycle here. [00:18:30.18] DAVID DEVINE: So, I just love it. So -- where are we at? [00:18:32.14] MARLOW BROOKS: Ok, so let's keep going around this cycle and yes everything you said is right on. [00:18:37.13] DAVID DEVINE: Great. I learned. [00:18:38.06] MARLOW BROOKS: LAUGHS. So, with this wood -- so the plant is growing. The tulip is growing and then at a certain point its growing toward the sun, which is fire, so water is very physical, and you know very deep and fire is very immaterial, bright and full of light. So, we're going from two very opposite polls of experience. So, the fire is also connected with the heart. And -- [00:19:08.15] DAVID DEVINE: Passion. [00:19:09.08] MARLOW BROOKS: Yeah, passion and also leadership. So, the whole vision of this through ancient China was that if a ruler for instance - an emperor --- they had their special medical doctors who would be taking care of them. And their spirit had to be in connection both with their truth or their essence -- we call it jing. And, they had to be able to lead like you know almost militaristically or whatever you want to say from their heart. So, this information of who you are then you extend it and you communicate it from your heart. So, the heart is benevolent. And, its kind. Its good. It goes all along the same -- all of this connects very beautifully with the views that one bumps into at Naropa a lot. So that leadership has to come from a truth and it has to come from your heart and the heart is the leader. The heart is the emperor. So -- [00:20:11.21] DAVID DEVINE: I like this because in most American thought itÕs the mind that is the leader, but in the Chinese tradition its -- [00:20:18.16] MARLOW BROOKS: And the mind needs to follow the heart. So, once the heart is resonating which you cannot. Its moment to moment. ItÕs very, very -- its moment to moment truth versus some big philosophy. [00:20:30.13] DAVID DEVINE: Space intuition and feeling. [00:20:33.13] MARLOW BROOKS: Yes. [00:20:34.19] DAVID DEVINE: ItÕs totally in the moment because you can shift that moment pretty quickly. [00:20:39.03] MARLOW BROOKS: But then uh the heart is also taking care of all the other -- to see the -- the cycle of the elements in you could say in a country or in human body. Are they are all working. So, you had mentioned earth and again -- fire creates ash or creates earth when it goes out. So, this again -- right back here with nature you know. And in terms of earth there is a sense of once you -- let's say fall in love. So, your heart opens, and you fall in love then the natural thing that happens after that is oh well let's have babies. Let's get -- let's uh make a household and cook for each other and take care of each other and hug each other and live you know so on. So, itÕs a natural outcome in the same way that an apple tree would create these apples and then you get to eat the apples. You know then there is a harvest, or the apples fall down on the earth and they rot, and you are feeding the earth again. So, in terms of again fire people to just go back for a minute tend to laugh a lot. They are very dynamic. And so on. And you can hear that in their voice. And, then the earth people are much more -- there is a lot more round and round and caring for people that goes on. And where people have a singing voice you know they say how are you? They're our caretakers. They are our mothers. They're the people the feed us on all levels of body, mind and spirit. [00:22:17.11] And when out balance and earth person can get kind of sticky and you know itÕs like -- needy and you can't get them off the phone and maybe -- but -- [00:22:29.05] DAVID DEVINE: They are like mom stop calling me. [00:22:29.23] MARLOW BROOKS: Their people that you tell of your stuff to when you're freaked out. You know and its like -- that you want sympathy. [00:22:37.18] DAVID DEVINE: Space holders. [00:22:39.09] MARLOW BROOKS: And they're -- well they're holders of love and compassion and comfort and all of that. So, then just like that's the late summer season of harvest. So, the mothers are giving pumpkins and apples -- [00:22:54.12] DAVID DEVINE: Like the fruits of your labor. [00:22:56.02] MARLOW BROOKS: Exactly. And so, again if you were an artist you'd have all these great ideas that started down a water -- like some intuitive feeling. You bring it up into activity which is the wood and then you manifest it. You paint like crazy or whatever you're going to do -- write. And then what are you going to do with it? Are you going to publish your book or are you going to have a performance. So, a lot of people get stuck right there you know. They -- they produce, but they can't bring it to fruition. So that's the earth. Late summertime. And then the apples fall, and they rot. And a -- in the many climates the cutting frost comes and that's the metal element which is ok let go of the whole things -- itÕs over. And we're going to start over again here. And, there is a sense of letting go. And, then when for instance if you look outside and we at this Naropa - you know you can't see the mountains when the semester begins letÕs say in the fall. And then you see this incredible yellow and then all of the sudden there is a frost and all the leaves fall off and there is a big wind. And all of the sudden there are the mountains. There is the sky. So, there is where the space comes in and the space has a cutting quality to it. ItÕs very precise. So, metal people tend to have a weeping voice. So, when you talk to them. And its oh I went to the mountains and -- oh they use their lungs a lot. And I just feel in love. I was on the top of the mountain -- I fell in love. And it sounds sad, but there is an actual awesome quality to it and they're the people that are wonderful at ritual. And wonderful at precision. They are the ability to practice and practice until you have accomplished excellence. [00:24:49.13] DAVID DEVINE: These are people who are making alters and setting intention probably lighting the sage and blessing people and holding some space. [00:24:58.05] MARLOW BROOKS: Exactly. [00:24:58.13] DAVID DEVINE: Might be the people that are like - they do the um's a lot. [00:25:03.16] MARLOW BROOKS: They -- they can and itÕs -- the earth would go hmmmm. Ohhhh. Ohh I am sorry. And the metal people are like aaahhhh ok. So, you don't run up to a metal person for instance and give them a huge hug without probably insulting their space you know it would be more like a bow. Uh so some people will come to class having trouble with a boyfriend let's say and it turns out they are invading their space. ItÕs as simple as that. They just need to stand back and uh -- honor before that fire can happen the space needs to be honored. [00:25:43.15] DAVID DEVINE: It seems like when you start understanding the elements and how people function then -- because you may be a certain element and you're like this is what I need so I think person needs it too and itÕs like -- [00:25:54.14] MARLOW BROOKS: ItÕs called projection. [00:25:56.01] DAVID DEVINE: Yeah, and they are like well actually they are not - they don't function that way -- their characteristics are built a little differently. They may need something different and its us skillfulness to know what they need, how to respond. And so, each element can work together. We just need to understand what type of element you running with. [00:26:16.08] MARLOW BROOKS: And that's given to us by the sound of the voice. By the color of the person's face. By the emotion that they need that comes from them. So, like metal is respect that uh -- and itÕs also grief because you have to let go of so much. So, again this -- this sense of knowing who you are and what your needs are and then honoring the people could be very different. And we have all the elements within us you know working all the time. TheyÕre our crew so to speak. [00:26:49.21] So, its -- its learning the skillful needs of really just as you said identifying the people that we communicate with and love -- what are their core needs in order to open up a conversation for instance. [00:27:03.22] DAVID DEVINE: Yeah, I am sure we all meet someone where you just come off as your bright cheery self or just kind of your two year self type person and then you -- within the conversation you realize like this isn't working why is this not working and itÕs just you both are just showing up differently and like maybe there is a different way to show up. And there's always a way to connect. ItÕs just finding the middle and understanding how you connect, and it seems as though the 5 elements is very psychologically based in -- but it labeled differently -- this is like the I-ching's version of like Freud or understanding -- [00:27:41.03] MARLOW BROOKS: Well, its ancient Chinese wisdom and those folks really knew what they were doing. [00:27:44.21] DAVID DEVINE: They did. [00:27:46.08] MARLOW BROOKS: And they still were still even when (?) took over China he tried just bringing Western medicine and it just absolutely -- because he was say we have to ride out this -- all of our ancestral traditions and he had to bring it back and in bringing it back he just -- all he did was delete all the spirit level information. So, you know taking out of the books. You could get in big trouble if you said somebody had spiritual issues. Uh so spiritual issues being you know their spirit could be sick versus their uh body -- so they couldn't get back to work. So, they continued to use herbs and acupuncture but in a very limited way -- in a way that would get people back to work. [00:28:39.10] DAVID DEVINE: Yeah, so we only have a couple minutes left and I am just curious do you have any fun stories or any interesting facts -- any last words you'd like to say about the 5 elements and maybe how they were used by a student, how they showed up in your life -- anything? Just kind like well -- [00:28:56.15] MARLOW BROOKS: LAUGHS. Ok, I could tell you the diaper story. LAUGHS. This is in my book as well, but I had a student and their homework was basically connect with uh an element to find where the door to relationship open to them. This young woman worked in a uh nursery -- in a childcare situation and they were having a lot of trouble with this little I think 2 year old who would scream -- have huge tantrums when they changed his diaper. And it was really getting impossible. And so, she was like ok, I am going to try this exercise. This is my homework. So, she -- she first started with earth and oh I am so -- this - I know you don't like this. Oh! And he just looked at her like, forget it. You know? Nothing a dent. Ok. And then she tried metal and she was like oh I know how hard it must be to have your diaper changed. Giving lots of space and so on. Nothing. Just worse. Just like looking at her like she is crazy. So, you know she tried fire and made a big joke about the whole thing and he is still looking at her like she is crazy. Then she tried water -- like I mean this must be really scary I understand you know you are afraid of something or whatever. Again, forget it. And, by that time the only one she had left was wood. And she had picked up the diaper and she said this is a naughty diaper and she tore it to bits. And the kid looks at her like finally! Finally! And, she's -- she starts tearing up the diaper and he starts laughing and smiling and she said let's find -- let's find a good diaper here. And so, they are looking through the pile and she goes oh I found one. And oh, we can put this one on now. So, she put it on and he's like happy, got the good diaper. And it was just a really -- a really fabulous story of uh what this child needed. You know, basically enormous frustration and anger had built up and he needed somebody to meet that just head on -- outrageously. And, uh -- [00:31:15.22] DAVID DEVINE: So good. ItÕs interesting to think that some of your homework is just relating with the people around you. Like this beautiful to work to do because that's like life work as well. So, not only are you going to get a grade or whatever -- but you're also going to get some skills to move forward with in life to better yourself and I am really enjoying how the elements show up in so many different ways and I love how they are just rooted in nature. Because nature is such a great tool to learn from and to represent and reflect and we are just part of that. I love how that just shows up in our lives. [00:31:55.03] MARLOW BROOKS: And if you don't know what's going on all you have to do is uh see what's happening with nature in your own body, mind and spirit basically. So, are you wilted? Are you fried? Are you sucked dry from people's needs? Are you disrespected -- whatever and again that's going to give you the answer on how you need to take care of yourself. [00:32:19.18] DAVID DEVINE: And sometimes itÕs not -- like you may show up to someone and you kind of say to yourself like what's wrong with them. Maybe nothing is wrong with them. Maybe there is something wrong with the way both of you are showing up in the interaction and so maybe there is something you're doing or there is something they are doing, but there is always a way to relate. And, the skill is to refine how to relate. And I feel like the 5 elements are just tools of relating. [00:32:48.12] MARLOW BROOKS: How long ago did you take this class David? LAUGHS. [00:32:52.22] DAVID DEVINE: I've done a lot of homework. I mean I haven't stopped reading, but I was really involved in the I-ching. ItÕs a defining tool. It teaches us so many different things. [00:33:01.00] MARLOW BROOKS: ItÕs totally based on the 5 elements. [00:33:03.03] DAVID DEVINE: I mean I resonated that before I came to Naropa, but like taking your class itÕs just like yes this is what I have been looking for! [00:33:12.00] MARLOW BROOKS: Great. [00:33:12.07] DAVID DEVINE: Awesome. So, I really appreciate you speaking with us today. It was such a pleasure just diving deeper into this class and I know you have another wonderful class this semester so itÕs just really exciting to see you move forward and this will be 21 years or something huh? [00:33:26.07] MARLOW BROOKS: Oh -- yeah -- thank you David. ItÕs been fun talking to you. [00:33:31.03] DAVID DEVINE: Is there any other way our listeners can contact you because I know you have some books. You have some art. You have a website or anything. [00:33:38.01] MARLOW BROOKS: Yes, I do uh I have a website which is marlowbrooks dot com. And its M-A-R-L-O-W Brooks dot com and it has a lot of my art and there is also text there for you -- itÕs more like a learning website. And, I am opening up a Facebook page on the 5 Elements which is just starting, and you could also connect with me marlowbrooks@gmail.com. And just even classes. I do lots of classes -- separately from Naropa -- private ones and apprenticeships as well. [00:34:13.06] DAVID DEVINE: Awesome. So, you heard that everyone. So, if you're interested just go find her and say hi. So, we just spoke to Marlow Brooks on the podcast who is a faculty member teaching in the BA Contemplative Psychology program for the last 20 years and she is also a graduate of the Worsley Institute of Classical Acupuncture and she is also an artist and writer so thank you again for speaking with us. 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