[00:00:00] Jim Jansen: Hey everybody, welcome to the quick past. So today I sit down with Father Scott Schilmoeller. Father Schilmoeller is the vocation director here in the Archdiocese of Omaha, and we do a live coaching session. I just come alongside father Schilmoeller as a thought partner and as a coach. I ask him some questions and walk him through a process to help him think about some goals, uh, some things that he is working on in his work as a vocations director.

If you are interested in vocations work, if you're interested in coaching and you wanna see it. You're going to love today's conversation. Take a listen. Hey everybody. Welcome to the EquipCast, a weekly podcast for the Archdiocese of Omaha. I'm your host, Jim Jansen. Now let's dive into some encouragement and inspiration to equip you to live your faith and to be fruitful in your mission. Let's go.

Father Scott Schilmoeller, welcome to the EquipCast. How you doing? 

[00:01:03] Fr. Scott: Doing pretty well. It's good to be here. 

[00:01:05] Jim Jansen: Yeah, it is good to be here. Just actually downstairs for you, right? We're sitting here in my office, and it was a short commute. 

[00:01:11] Fr. Scott: It was a very short commute. Just walk downstairs Yeah, I don't spend too much time down here, but I like it down here.

It's the fun floor. Thank you. Well, thanks for making the trip. 

[00:01:19] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Really appreciate it. Yeah, for sure. Okay. So, for those who don't already know you, give us a little quick background. Who are you? What's your day job? 

[00:01:28] Fr. Scott: Sure. Yeah. Father Scott Schilmoeller, born and raised in Omaha, St. Charles Parish, Cross Catholic High School.

Felt a call to go to seminary. After four years of college, I've been a priest now for, for, this is my eighth year. I'm And for five years I was assigned to the parishes up in the Norfolk area, loved it. And the archbishop asked me if I would, uh, be the vocation director. And I hesitantly said yes, not knowing everything that was going to come with that.

Um, but I, I've been loving it. I love our seminarians. I think they are just, uh, wonderful. And my day job, I basically come alongside those who are discerning and hear their stories. And I want to come alongside them and direct them to whatever the next best step is. Nice. And their vocational discernment.

I also want to work with leaders who are working with young people to help equip them to do the same. 

[00:02:21] Jim Jansen: Yeah. I love that. I mean, obviously right in the building here, I've gotten to hear a little bit more about kind of your plans and your approach, like, okay, how, how will we cultivate vocations? And I love it.

Yeah, very, very cool stuff. So, we've got a unique conversation here today. Uh, we're going to model a real short coaching conversation and like full disclosure to everybody listening. I have no idea what we're going to be talking about today. Uh, we haven't rehearsed this. This isn't scripted. You know, I know you, 
I know we're going to be talking about something related, you know, to your goals and your professional, you know, I don't think we're, I'm pretty sure we're not going to talk about like health food or my lifting exercise.

Yeah, no, but I'm pretty sure we're talking about, you know, vocations, evangelization, generally within that realm. My role as a coach is just going to be to listen and to guide a process. for you to think through your next steps. You've got the topic, you've got the experience, uh, the insight. I'm just going to be kind of like a thought partner.

We're going to, we're going to walk through this conversation and, uh, and then we'll kind of, you know, pause halfway through, uh, we'll, or we'll kind of like stop and then we'll process it. Um, just kind of like do the other, pull the pearl curtain behind and let people kind of see what just transpired.

Okay. So deep breath on my part. Father, what do you wanna work on today? 

[00:03:47] Fr. Scott: Great. Okay. Well, a little bit of context. I am vocation director for the next week of the entire archdiocese, which means all of it. And I'm, uh, it's the vocation office is me and an office assistant. 

[00:04:03] Jim Jansen: Yes. 

[00:04:03] Fr. Scott: Who, who does, who does background work and make sure that, uh, things get done. All the paperwork. 

[00:04:08] Jim Jansen: There's a, there's a lot, a lot paperwork and things like that. 

[00:04:10] Fr. Scott: And so, um, there. That's a, that's a wide range of space and people. And so, the archbishop has allowed me to get an assistant. And so, Father Zach Tucker will beginning, uh, we'll be beginning next week as my assistant. Yes. We love from the vocation office.

So, he's going to be working in the rural area, living at Wayne state college, working in the rural area. I'm going to be at the Newman center and working the urban area. 

[00:04:37] Jim Jansen: Got it. 

[00:04:38] Fr. Scott: Now he and I have just talked briefly about what our vision is, but, um, but what I wanted to talk about today. Is now that we have split duties of location, it will open up for me more of an availability to be in the urban area.

[00:04:58] Jim Jansen: Yeah. 

[00:04:58] Fr. Scott: Okay. I, I think I just part of this conversation is me recalibrating and thinking about I've been very, I've overbooked myself this summer. So, I'm, I'm kind of overwhelmed right now. Just me just like talking out and recalibrating as I look towards the fall and what are some priorities to continue to hold up with regard to vocation promotion and accompanying young people.

So, with that regard, I thought I would kind of come with a principle that I've been, I've been thinking about. 

[00:05:27] Jim Jansen: Before you do that. Can I make sure I understand? 

[00:05:29] Fr. Scott: Yes. 

[00:05:30] Jim Jansen: You're, you've got this transition coming. Father Tucker's coming in as an assistant. He'll be in the rural area. You'll be in the metro area. You want to talk through the recalibration, like what does that mean for your availability? Heard the word overwhelmed. You just want to kind of talk through a recalibration. 

[00:05:51] Fr. Scott: Yeah, kind of like what does the vision look like now? 

[00:05:53] Jim Jansen: Okay. 

[00:05:53] Fr. Scott: Um, and then what, what by, what might be just like some natural priorities that kind of come through as we begin talking through this?

Because I've been, I've been working out of the assumption that I'm just kind of the vocation director of the whole thing. Yeah. And that really limits my time and ability. And I'm kind of always running here and there. And I feel like sometimes I'm not doing much because I'm running all over the place, but now like, so I can be focused in certain areas.

[00:06:20] Jim Jansen: What might that look like? When the conversation is over, over like 30 minutes here, what do you want to walk away with? 

[00:06:25] Fr. Scott: I would like to walk away with maybe like priorities. What, what are two or three priorities for the coming fall semester? 

[00:06:36] Jim Jansen: Okay. So, in light of the recalibration, you want to walk away with priorities for the fall.

Okay. All right. So give me some of the, the context here. What are you thinking about? 

[00:06:51] Fr. Scott: So, some context, uh, with the vocation office is really interesting. I want to make What is very big, smaller. And so, we have a large number of people, Catholics who, you know, high school, college and young adult that are Catholic throughout our archdiocese.

Now I'm just, like, focusing on like the metro area, but not all of them are open to discerning a vocation. So, what, how, what is my subsection that I'm going to be working with? And I'm just working on the assumption that I'm someone who's a disciple. If unless you're a disciple, you really cannot discern your vocation unless you've met Jesus, unless you've really been walked with, have good community, good friendships, and like a sense of like a mission.

Like if those things aren't in place, uh, it's very difficult to discern a vocation. I don't think someone's able to, they need to get caught up to being a disciple first. And so that narrows down. Uh, the number of all young Catholics in the metro area to who are the ones who are disciples. 

[00:07:50] Jim Jansen: Yeah. 

[00:07:51] Fr. Scott: And that's going to be my, my focus area. The young men, we're talking about just the young men today, young men who have encountered Jesus who are disciples. And then there's going to be some markers that go with that. Do they attend mass? Are they involved in some sort of, yeah. Ministry activity through their parish, their school, things of that sort.

But then like, and the further question is then, well, then how do you, how do I find these groups of people? 

[00:08:18] Jim Jansen: Yeah. 

[00:08:19] Fr. Scott: And what I've been working out of is just, there are adults and ministry heads, priests, um, teachers who are the ones who are assisting in walking with them to become disciples. And these are like my, my allies.

And the other ones who, who know these young people, let's just get an example. Let's say the youth group at St. Vincent de Paul. Okay. So, there's a vibrant youth group at St. Vincent de Paul parish here in Omaha and Hannah Kiesling is there. 

[00:08:52] Jim Jansen: Has been the youth minister there for many years. 

[00:08:55] Fr. Scott: Has been the youth minister there for, yeah, for many years.

And so, if we're having a vocation event or if I want to like reach out, see if anyone wants to go to seminary, I'll reach out to her, and she'll reach out to the students that she's working with because she knows them and see who would like to come. And so now it just gets smaller. Okay. How do I, what's my access to people, to these disciples that are young?

Um, and I think the access comes through, well, what are the youth groups? Thanks. At what high schools are like, is discipleship taking place and, and that can really narrow down just like what are some hotspots that, uh, would be a good attention for me to attend to. 

[00:09:39] Jim Jansen: So, when we talk about priorities at the end of this conversation, is part of our methodology to begin to identify the hotspots, like where you're going to find these young men?

[00:09:51] Fr. Scott: Yeah, I think so. 

[00:09:53] Jim Jansen: Okay. Yeah. Let me ask a question. You talked about a really powerful assumption that you can't discern a vocation unless you're a disciple. And even more than that, some kind of, I don't want to call it ancillary, but things that surround, indicate, nurture someone's discipleship, scale of one to five, five being high, how, how strong is that conviction in you?

Uh, five. Okay. Okay. That's great. So, you are absolutely convinced I've got to find these hot spots where young disciples are being made. Mm hmm. Okay. So, let me ask you, where are young disciples being made? 

[00:10:35] Fr. Scott: Okay. So, if you look at our vocation poster, we have a number of young men from Scott Catholic High School.

So I'm going to focus in on maybe just that hotspot there. Deacon Bart Zavaleta has started a, uh, a young men's group at Scott Catholic High School and it's been going on for probably a decade or so. And um, we've had, I think we have four or five young men in the seminary who are part of that. 

[00:11:00] Jim Jansen: And who would credit that experience as part of their journey?

[00:11:04] Fr. Scott: Absolutely. 

[00:11:04] Jim Jansen: Okay. 

[00:11:05] Fr. Scott: And I would credit that experience as being part of their journey, as well as just being involved in campus ministry at large at SCUT. And they're more than likely also involved in a youth ministry at their own parish. And so, a lot of this is a shared ministry amongst parish, school, and now men's group.

But that young men's group there, we have four or five Uh, young men who are seminarians. 

[00:11:30] Jim Jansen: Which is a pretty sizable percentage of the whole. 

[00:11:35] Fr. Scott: Mm hmm. 

[00:11:35] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Okay. How did you find that hotspot? 

[00:11:40] Fr. Scott: Well, when I entered into the office, I was, well, first of all, we had three seminarians already from Scott at that time, and then I was told, Hey, you should talk to Deacon Bart Zavaletta.

He's trying to do some things. Okay. He's building up young men. And so, uh, there were some indicators just like the fruit that's being produced. And also, people were seeing that and then just, um, referencing me over to speak with him. 

[00:12:07] Jim Jansen: Okay. What does that hotspot teach you about finding other hotspots?

[00:12:14] Fr. Scott: That's a good question. I think, I think there's some indicators there of just like fruit that's already being produced. So, like, It was not uncommon to go to different youth events throughout the metro area and meet young men who say, Oh, I'm involved in this group. 

And so, it was kind of becoming more and more apparent that like, Oh, the young men who were involved in other things are also involved there.

They pray, they challenge one another to be men, and then they lead. They're the ones who serve mass and at SCUT, and so there's a, there's like a training ground there. 

[00:12:57] Jim Jansen: Good. What else do you see? Like, what are the ingredients of a hotspot? 

[00:13:03] Fr. Scott: Yeah. So, prayer prayerfulness and like an encounter with the Lord community or like, uh, or maybe just like friendship and then a sense that, that they are more than just their group.

Like there's a sense of an outreach towards others and that can like look different ways. But this is kind of what I sense as a, as a hotspot. A hotspot, just the characteristics of, of a hotspot. If there's a youth group, if there's a campus ministry, if there's, of course, like the Newman Center, the John Paul II Newman Center is also another place that's just like this.

If we look at our, uh, seminarian poster, uh, we can just go down the line and say, oh, who went to a Newman center? And every seminarian that we have has either gone to a Newman center or came straight out of high school and didn't have a chance to go. And so, um, well, what's the Newman center? What's the focus of a Newman center is to do those things, encountering Jesus and like authentic friendship and a sense of zeal and mission that this is larger than me. I need to, others need to know. 

[00:14:08] Jim Jansen: So, let me make an observation here. It seems like you can pretty clearly identify characteristics of the hotspot, like what, you know, what, what is the activity that's happening there that seems to nurture vocations, and it also seems like you know where the hotspots are in the metro area.

What are you really looking for? 

[00:14:33] Fr. Scott: I think probably just how do I come alongside those hotspots. What does it look like to hold up the vocation conversation? And so, yeah, what does it look like to accompany those who are leading well? And then what does it look like to accompany the young men holding up the vocation conversation?

Have you thought about this or, you know, so I do have a vision of what a clear path can look like for vocational discernment. And first, they, the young men need to be identified. So, who are the ones who are discerning? And they can either self-identify or be identified by somebody else. So, these vocation hotspots are places where people, you know, if you're living the Catholic faith authentically, like people will hear Jesus's call.

It's kind of, it's the inevitable. Yeah. There's an assumption there. That's what happens. 

[00:15:29] Jim Jansen: Yeah. That is like, if you're a disciple and you're doing the things that disciples do, praying, living in community, that then you can hear it. And, uh, maybe the other assumption, that he will give it. 

[00:15:40] Fr. Scott: Yeah, he'll give it. Uh, people can hear it or others around you will begin to see something and notice and speak it to you, which is what happens often. And so, the first step on like the clear path for vocational discernment is to identify and then, um, and, and then invite to something that goes beyond just being involved in this sort of, In this group.

[00:16:03] Jim Jansen: Okay. 

[00:16:04] Fr. Scott: In this thing. And that next step would be a next step and just discernment. 

[00:16:08] Jim Jansen: So, I'm going to make an observation here. It seems like we made a little bit of a pivot in our conversation that we started off saying, okay, the goal is identifying priorities and one of those would be identifying additional hotspots.

And it seems like we've pivoted to accompanying the existing hotspots. Do you want to keep focusing there or do you want to like, uh, focus on developing or finding more hotspots in general? 

[00:16:37] Fr. Scott: Um, I think accompanying. 

[00:16:38] Jim Jansen: Okay. The accompanying. So, what do you want to bring to these hotspots when you accompany them?

Like what's, what's the, the additional gift that you offer? 

[00:16:49] Fr. Scott: Yeah. So, I would like to come alongside those who are leading these hotspots, youth ministers, teachers, focus missionaries. And encourage them in their walk with young people and, and then like kind of equip them to speak what they see. Do they see something in another person?

With regard to, uh, priestly aspects or as the Holy Spirit kind of stirred something in them and can they bring it up and talk to the person now they're on a team with me? So, you know, he was kind of the offside. If I'm the only one inviting, like it's, it's not going to work out very well. But if they're inviting them because they're walking with them and they know them and they already have a trust built, if they're going to invite them to something, a vocation event, a seminary visit, now they're way more likely to come.

[00:17:41] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Cause they know them. 

[00:17:42] Fr. Scott: They know them. 

[00:17:43] Jim Jansen: Yeah. If you were going to attach a metaphor to the relationship you have with these campus ministers, youth ministers, focus missionaries, teachers, What would that be like? It's just a metaphor for their relationship with you. 

[00:17:58] Fr. Scott: Uh, coach. 

[00:17:59] Jim Jansen: Okay. Say more. 

[00:18:00] Fr. Scott: I think a lot of us are uncomfortable saying that to a young man.

Hey, you ever thought about priesthood? Sure. You should go on the seminary visit. And so, I think a large part of my work is like just telling, um, telling new leaders, like, not only can you do that, but you should do that. 

And I'm going to teach you how, and then we're, this is how, this is how it goes about. And I want to accompany you in doing that. 

[00:18:26] Jim Jansen: Yeah, it almost, tell me if this rings true or not, it's almost like you're deputizing them. Right, you're like, you're the vocations sheriff, and you're deputizing them to join you in vocations work. They're like part of your team. 

[00:18:42] Fr. Scott: Yeah, yeah. So, I don't want to bypass them and go and work directly with the kids as if like, And I want to work alongside them.

Um, they're with these, these young people, like every week they see the growth that's going on and they can, uh, they can really invite and give like referrals and like, and then some of them really do this. They do it really well. Uh, so Deacon Bart Zavoletta was in seminary, so he has all the skills that are pretty much built up, but not everyone's like him.

Most people are not. And so, they don't quite know. Okay, what do I, yeah, what do I do? So maybe what I'm looking for is what would I like to have conversations with these allies who are in it with me? What kind of conversations would I like to have with them before going into next fall? And then what sort of, uh, giving like a clearer vision of like how I would like to walk with them.

[00:19:33] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Again, my metaphor, not yours. So only if it's helpful. How do you train your deputies? What do they need? 

[00:19:42] Fr. Scott: They probably need to be reminded their forming of disciples is the groundwork of vocation work and how it fits into vocation work. And then when someone is living the faith, well, something will grow out of it, which is your future vocation.

And so maybe the connection from what they're doing right now to what grows out of it in the area of vocation and kind of like piecing that together and seeing there's a real natural next step. And then also Just talking with them, maybe, maybe just soliciting from them and hearing from them, what do they see as indicators as someone who would make a good candidate and solicit from them what they might see?

And then I could share maybe like what others have said, and so they could have it in their mind. Yeah, this is kind of what would this is these some things that would be indicators and then just ask them what sort of conversation would you like to have with someone if you saw these indicators? 

[00:20:46] Jim Jansen: Yeah.

[00:20:47] Fr. Scott: And is there anyone right now that you think of that you want to have that conversation with? And could we meet again in a month and just check in on how those conversations went? 

[00:20:57] Jim Jansen: Yeah, could we review that? Like you just, you just said a lot there. That was awesome. It just kind of exploded out of you. So, vision is like, you're the seedbed for like what you're doing now, teacher, coach, seedbed for vocations work.

Uh, what was the second thing? 

[00:21:17] Fr. Scott: Yeah. So, the first thing was how, so I just, uh, an affirmation of what they're doing is like discipleship is, is the grounding and the foundation of where vocations grow out of. 

[00:21:26] Jim Jansen: Yes. 

[00:21:27] Fr. Scott: Um, and the second thing would be identifying, you know, looking for indicators that something is growing in that direction.

Yeah. Characteristics. Characteristics. Yeah. And so that could be characteristics of budding vocations of budding vocations. I love it. Yeah. 

[00:21:49] Jim Jansen: And for those who can't see you're taking notes right now. You got your notebook out and you're like writing this stuff down. 

[00:21:53] Fr. Scott: I'm writing it down. 

[00:21:55] Jim Jansen: All right. What's next?

[00:21:57] Fr. Scott: I think after we talk about the characteristics of budding vocations, it's just a simple direct ask of who do you see and who do you identify? 

[00:22:05] Jim Jansen: Yeah. 

[00:22:06] Fr. Scott: And so, naming. 

[00:22:07] Jim Jansen: Okay. Yeah. Who do you see? 

[00:22:09] Fr. Scott: And then I think here's something that kind of makes me This, this makes me a little bit nervous, and I don't know why, but I, I feel pressure sometimes that when we get to this point in conversation with people, they think that I should do all the conversations.

Yeah, and so I've had these conversations before with many people of like, let's, let's identify some people. We'll get a whole list of them. And I feel like. And I don't know if this is them doing this or me doing this, but it's like, father, here's our list. 

[00:22:40] Jim Jansen: Go get them. 

[00:22:41] Fr. Scott: Go get them. 

[00:22:42] Jim Jansen: Yeah. But that's not what you want.

[00:22:45] Fr. Scott: No. Yeah. I want those who are already walking with our young people to continue the conversation that they've already been having with them. And now just add and layer on the next 

[00:22:56] Jim Jansen: Yeah. And by the way, natural thing, the Lord might be calling you. How would you label that, that, that gift you want to give them? 

[00:23:04] Fr. Scott: Like the, like the confidence to go there?

[00:23:08] Jim Jansen: Yeah. 

[00:23:09] Fr. Scott: Like I want you to breach the conversation. 

[00:23:11] Jim Jansen: Yeah. I mean, forgive me. Right. It is the EquipCast, but do you want to equip them for the conversation? 

[00:23:16] Fr. Scott: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Equipped to have convos. And then the last part would be to check in to check in with me. 

[00:23:26] Jim Jansen: Okay, is there anything missing from that list that you've interacted with these people before, you know, good friendships, conversations?

Is there anything else that, that they might need from you that they might be missing? 

[00:23:39] Fr. Scott: I think for the uh, the part Where I equip them to have conversations. I think there'd be some bullet points underneath that part. For example, um, that they would know what are events coming up. So, as they're having conversation with someone, it can be a place of invitation, right?

[00:23:58] Jim Jansen: There's, there's tools that are like, Hey, we're throwing this party or we're going to make this road trip. You should know, cause you could invite someone to this. 

[00:24:05] Fr. Scott: Yeah. Okay, cool. But I'd want to encourage them to. To have the listening, just the skill of listening to what the other person is saying and what's coming up for them.

[00:24:17] Jim Jansen: Yeah. What else? 

[00:24:19] Fr. Scott: I would want them to have a clear what's next, such as what are some options as you talk to them? If they do say, yeah, I have thought about this. Oh, that's really awesome. 

Yeah. What next? Yeah. So, what now? And I think, uh, maybe even just for them, like, Having the ability to know like, Hey, here's some options.

Would you like to, we have some people who could walk with you. Would you like to talk to one of our priests? Would you like to talk to Father Scott, the vocation director? Would you like to, would you be interested in visiting a sermon group? What would you, what would you be interested in, what would be helpful for you as a next step?

[00:25:01] Jim Jansen: Visit. Book. 

[00:25:02] Fr. Scott: Visit. Book. 

[00:25:03] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Stuff. Okay. So let me, let me ask, this is a really good list. What do you need to do to make this little, I'm going to stick with the, the, the deputy thing. This formation of your deputies, what do you need to do to make this happen? 

[00:25:21] Fr. Scott: So, they need to, to know, like they need to be reminded and talked with about these things. And I think a lot of times the best way to do that is one on one conversation. 

[00:25:34] Jim Jansen: Okay. That's what I was going to ask. Are you gathering them as a group? Are you meeting with them individually? 

[00:25:38] Fr. Scott: I was thinking of meeting with them individually. That's what I was thinking. It just kind of seems personal.

There's an intuition. 

[00:25:44] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Well, there's an intuition there. Vet that out. Like, what is telling you, I need to meet with them individually? 

[00:25:52] Fr. Scott: Yeah, I get a sense. Um, it just is the personal meeting with them individually would, um, we can track together in real time, their conversation one on one with me. And so, as we're going through this, it can be more dynamic of, uh, uh, what are you, what are the characteristics of a budding vocation that you see?

Okay. How would you have? And I think that dynamic, I appreciate that a lot and, and that sort of coaching or deputizing, I think, uh, I think there's an effectiveness to, to walking with someone in that way. 

[00:26:31] Jim Jansen: I can see it because we're sitting across the table. So, I can see the kind of like the sparkle in your eyes, like the idea of like forming your deputies one on one.

I can see that in your facial expression, like that just resonates really deeply with you. 

[00:26:46] Fr. Scott: Yeah. Also, they're just, they're important. Yeah. And so, I can have a one on one with them. Like they're deserving of my time. I'll go get coffee with them. They're in like the work. I want them to be affirmed in the work that they do.

It's so needed. And so, I want to buy them coffee. Let's go get coffee. Which isn't really that extravagant. 

[00:27:07] Jim Jansen: No, but it's great. It's a great way to show love and appreciation. Okay. 

[00:27:13] Fr. Scott: So, so I think I would like to have one on ones. I have a fear sometimes that like, uh, things can get lost. 

[00:27:21] Jim Jansen: Hmm. 

[00:27:21] Fr. Scott: Because we just get busy, and we get lost. So I almost wonder of like these sort of steps that are here, what's something that I could even like give to them that's been formatted and they can hang up in their office or they can be reminded of or they could send out to their, uh, the rest of their core team. Yeah. Something like that. So, it's a, so it's a concrete format.

[00:27:46] Jim Jansen: It's like a summary of, of the, these points. 

[00:27:48] Fr. Scott: Yeah. Summary. Yeah. And so, um, yeah, so I'd want it to be simple. I want it to be easy. And as they look at it and they see it, they're just like reminded of like, yep, okay, we can help with this. We're a part of this. 

[00:28:01] Jim Jansen: Nice. You got a couple of, I mean, beautiful ideas here. What's, what's your action step to, to bring, bring this to life? 

[00:28:13] Fr. Scott: Okay. So a couple of things first, uh, I already have it on my calendar to get, to get together with like these vocational allies, as I call them sometime this summer or, uh, or late, late summer, you know, sometime in July or late summer, get together with them, check in, how you doing?

And then, um, and then go over this with them. And so, I think scheduling those would be the next practical thing. Check. Uh, and then also, yeah, like just strategizing. Is there a way to format this where it's like easy to look at? Easy to grasp and can just be given to someone where they can just, they can take it with them as we leave conversation.

It's not as if we just get pushed back into the busyness of life. 

[00:29:02] Jim Jansen: Yeah. What's your next step on that? That little cheat sheet, cue card, whatever it is. 

[00:29:08] Fr. Scott: I'm wondering if there's anyone who knows how to do things really well like that, that I could talk this out with them, and they could just like come back with the proposal of what this looks like.

[00:29:17] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Who do you know who might, might be that person? 

[00:29:23] Fr. Scott: Well, I think I could have a conversation with, uh, the communication director here, Riley, just what he would think he's got an eye for things. And if we were to sort of design something, uh, he might even have a larger idea of what it looks like to actually like publish something.

Or if you were to make something that's more accessible, um, this is what you're doing for these people, but what about, he kind of does that sort of thing. 

[00:29:53] Jim Jansen: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, a professional communicator is like he can. Help you make it pithy, memorable. Well laid out. What's your action step there, then?

[00:30:04] Fr. Scott: Set up a time and talk to Riley.

[00:30:06] Jim Jansen: So, Father, we've been talking for about 30 minutes here. Seems like you got some, some action steps. What are your big kind of takeaways as we kind of close out this, this coaching time? 

[00:30:20] Fr. Scott: Yeah, well, I could say, what am I thinking? And what am I feeling? I'll start off with what am I feeling? Uh, I'm feeling like more relieved.

It's more bite size. And I'm reminded of that. And I think I knew, like, I've, I've known that, but, um, but I've been really overwhelmed in the past couple of weeks. And so, I, I just being reminded of like, I, I'm going to narrow down and I don't have to do everything. And it's going to be a collaborative work with those who are already in the ministry of making disciples, uh, that energizes me.

And I'm also just reminded of like, Oh yeah, I've kind of been doing that. Let's return to that. 

[00:30:59] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:31:01] Fr. Scott: And now returning to that, I'm kind of, I guess I'm, I'm, uh, I'm excited for like the clarifications of conversations I'd like to have with them and just those points that we talked about. I think it.

It narrows and focuses the conversations that I like to have with them so they would understand and be on the same page as myself of like, how do they, how do they work well in this areas? You know, with me. 

[00:31:29] Jim Jansen: So, you're feeling relief. You're feeling like the kind of, okay, wait, I've been doing this.

There's, I mean, again, my words, not yours, but there's a hope or like, oh wait, I can do this. I have been doing this. What else are you feeling as you kind of like process this time? 

[00:31:45] Fr. Scott: I don't know. 

[00:31:46] Jim Jansen: Okay. Well, let's pull it. Let's pull back the curtain a little bit because I want, I hope our listeners as they're kind of like, you know, listening in on this coaching conversation, I hope they've noticed like how hard you were working.

They were like, uh, and I can see it, but hopefully they can, they can hear it. I would ask you a question and you kind of lean back. You had to really think. You're like, gosh, what do I really want? What do they really need? And I think that's a surprise for a lot of people because they're like, you know, they're like, wait a minute, like, I like coaching, like Father Scott was doing all the hard work.

Jim was just listening and asking questions. How does it feel on the other end when you're getting these, getting these questions? 

[00:32:30] Fr. Scott: Well, I like, I like pinning things down and getting them to be graspable, like, you know, graspable if that's a word, uh, because like, you know, the ideas can float. Oh, let's get some vocations.

Oh, what does that mean? Yeah. Where do we start? What do we? And so, I think it can make it more, um, again, as I said, like bite size practical, what does that mean? Who do we work with? Yeah. And so being reminded of those things always frees me, uh, so those questions, although like it, it makes me think they free me to think about the right direction and right things because my mind is here and it's there and it's here and it's there and it's, there's a lot of things, but to, to narrow it down for, with a good question can really just be helpful for me to focus in.

[00:33:20] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Is it observer? It really is. It's like, it's like focusing your thoughts. I was able to watch that happen. You know, like, okay, I want to, you know, I want to talk about priorities, and I want to talk about, you know, hotspots. And then the conversation pivoted and we're like, actually, I know where the hotspots are.

I want to like a company and equip the people who are there so they can be even more fruitful and what they're doing. And that was very cool to watch. And I didn't know that was coming. I don't think you knew that was coming. But as we were asking these questions, we just kind of, Oh, yeah, that's okay.

That's what we really want. And it was just, it was interesting to see, watch the conversation take on a life of its own. 

[00:34:00] Fr. Scott: Yeah. Yeah. I think it was really good because… Yeah. Just, just in the big, large vocation idea of all the, all these different things to have the next steps and directions for what seems to just be an effective way to approach vocation work is very, very freeing.

[00:34:19] Jim Jansen: So, I'm, I'm curious here, you know, I'm not your regular coach. I know from time to time, uh, you're able to, to work with, uh, another coach just generally what benefits do you find from coaching? Yeah. 

[00:34:31] Fr. Scott: Yeah, so I, I have, uh, made use of, of coaches over the past, um, two years and last summer, as I was just discussing what my hopes were before summer began, I, I just went to a coach and we talked about the landscape of what I was seeing.

And then basically what we came to is like, what could you reasonably hope for? For your, for your time as vocation director during the summer. And as we thought about that, we talked about that, I was able to just write down three priorities. And that was my vision for the summer. And so instead of just kind of a shotgun going everywhere, it really focused into, Oh, here's, here's three things.

So, the focusing, you're focusing me in on, well, okay, what's the vision? And now let's stay true to that. And what are some, um, some priorities to stay true to that, that are actually reasonable and, uh, within my power. 

[00:35:40] Jim Jansen: You know, it was interesting as I, as I watched that happening, it's, it's fun for me because it's not my priorities.

You know, I wasn't handing you priorities. I wasn't handing you a methodology. I wasn't, I mean, as far as I know, I added a metaphor, but I didn't, I didn't add any real new information. You had all the information, but it seemed like the thought partnering The, the questions helped you re-access that and clarify.

It's like, yeah, that's my priority. That's where I want to spend my time. They're worth a cup of coffee. I love that. So just really big picture. I'm not certainly not a historian expert on this, but coaching is a relatively new discipline, you know, in the last 20 years. I mean, there were, I mean, yeah, there were always athletic coaches, people with sweatpants and whistles.

Uh, that's not me. I mean, I, I have sweatpants. Actually, I don't have any sweatpants, but whatever. Anyway, um, The idea of kind of life coaching or executive coaching, it's different than spiritual direction. It's certainly different than counseling. Um, even then mentorship, you're obviously, you know, you're versed in spiritual direction.

Some of these things, how would you distinguish, uh, some of these disciplines because they're all helping, but they're distinct. How would you, how would you distinguish them? 

[00:36:59] Fr. Scott: Yeah, sure. Spiritual direction is focused on the individual's relationship with the Lord and, and um, how Jesus is moving and working in their life and being able to, uh, to listen and point that out, which we didn't really do today if we didn't even talk about relationship with the Lord.

[00:37:14] Jim Jansen: Yeah. I mean, we're both in favor. We love the Lord, but yeah, it wasn't. 

[00:37:18] Fr. Scott: We probably wouldn't broadcast that whole thing. Like, you know, spiritual direction is kind of a, it's more interior. It's more private. 

[00:37:24] Jim Jansen: Yeah. More private. 

[00:37:25] Fr. Scott: So, what is interiorly going on? What are difficulties with trials? How is Jesus with you?

How is he embracing even the trials with you? That's spiritual direction. Mentoring would probably be like, for me personally, what's difficult about being in this position? And kind of giving some, uh, some tips, some tools to, uh, uh, to mentor me into the role. 

[00:37:50] Jim Jansen: Right. Like if I had been a vocations director, they're like, well, let me tell you about what I did when I was a vocations director my first year.

[00:37:58] Fr. Scott: Yeah. So, so going to talk to someone who has had the experience with the role who can then speak into it. This is a mentorship type role. And coaching, I guess, would be from what we just did here, uh, asking good questions in order to help who's ever being coached to pinpoint and the direction and leadership around a vision.

Or priorities. Right. And to, and to really, to, um, bring out through good questions and discussion, the next step, the direction. 

[00:38:36] Jim Jansen: Yeah. 

[00:38:36] Fr. Scott: Or whatever is needed. Uh, apparent, I, I guess probably what is it ever needed. 

[00:38:41] Jim Jansen: Yeah. 

[00:38:42] Fr. Scott: To move forward in a, in a ministry. 

[00:38:44] Jim Jansen: Yeah. It's really, I mean, it's very nondirective, which is part of the reason that I fell in love with it.

You know, I, I fell in love with coaching because it's really, it's a chance for me to decrease, you know, and let the wisdom and the experience, uh, of the leaders that I'm serving come to the forefront. 

[00:39:02] Fr. Scott: What do you do then when somebody asks if you're coaching someone, and they ask you for direction? 

[00:39:08] Jim Jansen: Oh, that's a that's a great question.

So cool. I mean, I'm not unwilling because often, you know, I'm coaching in a space that is generally about evangelization or making disciples or parish renewal, things that I have, you know, a fair amount of experience on. So, I'm not unwilling to say, like, hey, can I share an idea or, or to answer a question if somebody's like, what would you do?

I'm not unwilling to share that, but usually what I try and do is I try and finish that with a recommendation. Or force them to start. So, if they're like, well, what would you do? It's like, well, I'm happy to share what I do, but from what you know now, what would you do? What seems like your first steps? And then 
I might add something because it seems like, I mean, human nature, people, people like do their ideas.

Because, like, like they implement their ideas because their ideas fit them. I mean, people know more about their own context, their own needs, their own limitations, all of that stuff. So I tend to, if I'm going to offer a suggestion or an idea, I tend to, in a coaching context, if it's at invitation and after they've kind of gotten their ideas out, because I want to make sure that it fits them and that it's something that they can make their own.

Because my, let's just assume it could have been helpful, my great idea that doesn't actually fit someone's circumstances, it's not going to get done. And it's not, it's really not all that helpful then. Father, I want to ask, like, you know, as you think about other ministers of the gospel, who might consider coaching?

What would you, yeah, what advice would you have for them? 

[00:41:00] Fr. Scott: Uh, give it a try. To have another person who can ask some questions and help clarify things with you. I think it'd only be an added benefit. Especially because I think we've all had the experience of being like, in our own heads trying to figure something out.

[00:41:15] Jim Jansen: Some of us more than others, but yeah. 

[00:41:17] Fr. Scott: Yeah. And then we realize, wow, this is a lot of pressure. Uh, I don't actually know what I'm doing. I don't, you know, and we'll have the experience. Um, and so talking it out with someone who's like there to simply just talk it out and not going to hold you or your ministry like in a, in judgment, but really just there to solve, I think is, um, it was a really good benefit.

And it can really lead to practical things. 

[00:41:47] Jim Jansen: Yeah, like we ended with like, you had action steps, you're like, okay, I'm going to make these appointments. Okay, I'm going to talk to you. And you're like, there was like, we weren't just in theory. We started with theory, this right, this conviction, like you can't discern a vocation unless you're a disciple.

But we ended with concrete action steps. It's probably worth mentioning two things. One, you know, it's not spiritual direction, but there is some degree of confidentiality around coaching, you know, that it's like there is a, you know, again, it's not confession. It's not spiritual direction, but there's some degree of privacy.

You know, it's a, it's a space that unless somebody is breaking the law or doing something dangerous or unhelpful, uh, there's generally like a, okay, we're going to, you know, this is a between you and I and everybody listening. No, this is, this is a little bit of an exception, but you know, it's generally, you know, there's kind of a discretion.

And, and that's something that, you know, an individual coach and coachee need to need to be clear about, you know, especially if, if you're, uh, if you're going to be recording the conversation for broadcast on a podcast, but it often is a safe place where people can process and there isn't going to be this, like you said, judgment or anything like that.

What would you say to somebody who's like, okay, I don't know, I don't have like a coach or access to a coach. I don’t even know where to get started. What would you say? 

[00:43:14] Fr. Scott: Okay. I could say a couple of things. So I think most, most of the priests I know, and hopefully a lot of the laity who are involved in leadership that, uh, that there are coaches available here at the archdiocese, but also there, I would just ask, Who in your life have you turned to just to process things because you see them, maybe they're a business leader, someone in your parish who is into marketing, is into something, and you can see that they have some skills that can, you can discuss.

They also have a sensitivity towards maybe the spiritual life. And then, and what it looks like, but you can bounce off some, uh, some ideas with them. So yeah, yeah. Who could be someone who comes alongside you that can be part of the discussion? 

[00:43:57] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Someone who can listen. I would say for me, you're like one, not everybody needs a formal coaching relationship, but for me, what this has changed, uh, it changes the type of friend.

And honestly, it's changed my parenting of my adult children, uh, or almost adult children, uh, on their way to being adult children. It's changed my life. I don't give advice as quickly as I used to. I tend to what the coaching discipline and my training, you know, when got certified as a coach and lots of hours, classes and coursework and, you know, supervision, having people watch, watch, etcetera.

I've just learned to listen more, to try and find out what people really want, and to let them begin to figure out their next steps. And I just, yeah, I just, I give advice less. And when I do, it's probably, it seems to be more welcome and better received because I spent the time to listen first. Which is part of professional coach training.

But I think any of us could do that a little bit more intentionally as a friend. 

[00:45:08] Fr. Scott: Absolutely. Yeah, totally agree. 

[00:45:10] Jim Jansen: Okay. We will put in the show notes here for those who are interested. If somebody is like, well, no, no, no, but I, but I want to coach. It's like, okay, there's a couple of places and resources. Uh, you can go to, one would be a metanoia Catholic, great organization.

Uh, they have trained, uh, life coaches who approach coaching with a Catholic worldview. Again, it's metanoia Catholic. We'll put the link in the podcast. Great organization. They're out of Florida. I've had some real nice conversations with them. Really appreciate the work that they do. Also, just executive coaching, particularly for those who have kind of like a leadership responsibility that's available, like almost everywhere.

Um, especially if you're willing to be coached over zoom, uh, or, you know, something remote, just ask any great leader, uh, executive, you know, for a referral. Here's this, here's the secret, like Most great leaders have a coach or a consultant or someone that they regularly work with, uh, like that. It's often the secret to their success.

And so, just kind of ask them, um, and chances are they can refer you to someone that they've used. And then I would say, like, just, you know, Coaching is often a seasonal need, okay, I'm in transition into this new role, or I've got this special project that I'm working on, and so to not be afraid, you know, it's not like, it's not like a lifelong kind of thing, it can be specific for needs, uh, and just don't be afraid to try out like a couple of individuals till you find someone that kind of like, yeah, this person's background, their style, it fits me.

All right. Father, any last words? 

[00:46:46] Fr. Scott: I don't think so. I appreciate your time. 

[00:46:47] Jim Jansen: Where do, where do people go if they want to like, I want to learn how to be a vocations deputy. How can they get ahold of you? 

[00:46:54] Fr. Scott: Omaha vocations. org is our way, our website, and you can just drop a message to me straight there. Ask father questions, a little dropdown thing, and 

[00:47:02] Jim Jansen: nice.

[00:47:03] Fr. Scott: You could reach me right there. 

[00:47:04] Jim Jansen: Omaha vocations. org. All right. We'll put that, we'll put on the show notes too. Father. Thank you. Thanks for being with us. All right, everybody, you know, somebody who, who would really benefit from this conversation, man, they're interested in vocations. Uh, they are a vocations deputy.

They don't know it. They're discerning a vocation, or maybe they're just interested in this coaching thing. They're, they're in a season in their life and they would, they would appreciate that. Uh, you know who it is when you get safely to your destination, uh, share this out. Thanks for listening everybody.

Thanks for listening to the EquipCast. We hope this episode has inspired you to live your faith and equip you to be fruitful in your mission. Stay connected with us by going to equip.archomaha.org. God bless and see you next time.