[00:00:00] Jim Jansen: Hey everybody. Welcome to the Quip Cast. So today I sit down with Andy Deka and Whitney Bradley and Jodi Phillips, and we talk all about relational outreach. How do you, how do you figure out how to build a ministry for doing relational outreach as part of your clear path? This is the fourth in our series about how to choose ministries for the steps on your clear path. This is a really fun conversation. This is the one where, well, most of us are, are new to this concept of outreach. So it's a really fascinating conversation. We talk about the options, characteristics, pitfalls to avoid, and the best part, like how can you tell when it's working? It's a fun, fast-paced conversation. If your parish or your ministry is at a place where you're ready to talk about relational outreach and how do you get that started, or you want to improve it, you're gonna love today's conversation. Take a listen. Hey everybody. Welcome to The Equipped Cast, a weekly podcast for the Archdiocese of Omaha. I'm your host, Jim Jansen. Now let's dive into some encouragement and inspiration. To equip you to live your faith and to be fruitful in your mission. Let's go. Alright everybody. Welcome to the Equip Cast. This is a special episode. It's part of a series on how to choose a specific ministry for each of the steps on the clear path. Uh, today we're gonna zero in on relational outreach. So a clear path. Really, it's just a parish framework designed to help people take their next step as disciples of Jesus. It's the plan for making and maturing disciples and parish ministries that have a clear path. Know exactly how they connect with people. They know how they foster conversion. They know how they help people grow as disciples and they know how they equip people as missionary disciples, whether it's the parish at large or a specific ministry. They have a context for their missionary disciples to bring people as they accompany people on their spiritual journey. Now, the concept is simple, but choosing a ministry to serve as an individual step on the clear path, sometimes take some research and discernment. Today we got a full house here. We have a panel of coaches with me to talk about their experience, helping parishes choose a relational outreach ministry that was right for their parish. I. First off, Whitney, welcome to the Quip Cast. How you doing? [00:02:27] Whitney Bradley: Hello. Doing great. [00:02:28] Jim Jansen: All right, miss Jodi. Welcome. [00:02:29] Jodi Phillips: Thank you. [00:02:30] Jim Jansen: Oh, sorry. Whitney Bradley and Jodi Phillips. [00:02:32] Jodi Phillips: Jodi Phillips. [00:02:34] Jim Jansen: Andy, how you doing? [00:02:35] Andy Dejka: Doing great. Great to be here. [00:02:37] Whitney Bradley: Dega. He also has a last name. [00:02:38] Jim Jansen: Oh yeah. Andy Dega, right? That's right. Everybody. Everybody has has a last name. Although andy's a little bit more like a rockstar. He just goes by like the first like Madonna right there. Share. Not really just goes by Andy. Yeah. That's so funny. It's like, it's like you have to have a weird. Like Bono or Madonna or Cher. [00:02:58] Jodi Phillips: Only then can you go by a single name? [00:03:00] Jim Jansen: I don't think so. Is there anybody with a normal first name? I mean, there's just no like Jim or Andy that I'm aware of. It's like, okay, well we're lost. [00:03:07] Whitney Bradley: Okay. [00:03:07] Jim Jansen: Alright. [00:03:08] Whitney Bradley: Welcome to our team. [00:03:09] Jim Jansen: Yeah, so we wanna talk about relational outreach. You know, this is, uh, chronologically. Often it's a last step to be built. But conceptually, if, if you're thinking about individuals connecting, uh, it's often, it's often where they start. It's the thing that's supposed to help them connect. Whitney, give us, give us a, a, a start off here. Give us a simple overview. I. What is relational outreach anyway? [00:03:34] Whitney Bradley: Yeah, so relational outreach are those ministries that serve people who are in the thresholds of conversion that are furthest away from decision. And what I mean by that is they're currently not a part of the church. They maybe aren't irregularly attending mass, or they even hold mistrust or hesitation towards religion or the Catholic church yourself. [00:03:57] Jim Jansen: And it's probably helpful to note that would include whether they're baptized or not. This is like the practical, like they just don't show up. They don't, they're not registered that they don't, or even if they are registered, they just, they don't feel like they're a part of the community. [00:04:10] Whitney Bradley: They don't belong for whatever reason. Yeah. Yes. That belonging feels lacking. So they're basically events that missionary disciples can. Invite their friends and be confident that the friend won't be scared away by something that's too Catholic, or where they won't be warmly welcomed or they'll feel judged. Uh, these are. Events that are just the exact opposite of that. And you know, even the events that we often feel are the most welcoming, are still the most deranging to someone who's not already in the community. [00:04:44] Jim Jansen: Mm. Say say more about that. 'cause I think I know what you mean, but like, what do you mean? [00:04:48] Whitney Bradley: I think of Donut Sunday. I know this is maybe dumb, but like [00:04:52] Jim Jansen: No, that's a great example. [00:04:53] Whitney Bradley: I don't go to my parishes stone at Sunday and my parish is fine. It's not my parish's fault, but. Even when my, I was living with my nieces and I would take children [00:05:04] Jim Jansen: mm-hmm. [00:05:04] Whitney Bradley: To the donut Sunday, people would greet my children and then not say hello to me. [00:05:09] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm. [00:05:10] Whitney Bradley: And so it's just really easy to think we're being welcoming, we're taking the easy welcome. They, everybody knew Charlotte and Izzy's names, they did not know my name. [00:05:21] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm. [00:05:21] Whitney Bradley: The events that are supposed to be welcoming just aren't. [00:05:24] Jim Jansen: Right. Because, I mean, if you walk into Donut Sunday, even if somebody says hi, which isn't guaranteed. They're probably not gonna sit down and have a conversation with you. So you grab your donut and you sit down and you talk with, if you were lucky enough to walk in with someone, you talk with that person and then you leave with a little bit more sugar in your bloodstream. [00:05:44] Whitney Bradley: Pretty much. Uh, but usually you just sit with your own family and don't interact with anyone else. Uh, so relational outreach is gonna be something where a person can feel like they belong, even if they don't believe or behave yet. [00:06:00] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Whitney, it's probably helpful at this point, and everybody feel free to jump in, but what are some of the characteristics of relational outreach? You know, like what is, like, what makes it relational outreach? One of those things that you talk about, like it's providing a connection. People feel like they belong. What else? What, what else is characteristic of relational outreach? [00:06:21] Andy Dejka: I think one of the things would be just, uh, shared meals, right? Anytime you can gather with somebody around a shared meal, that's a way of, um, just really building trust with them and inviting them into, um, just a deeper conversation, right? Conversations about, about life, um, about just normal human things is a great characteristic. [00:06:39] Jodi Phillips: I think they require intentionality. So I think oftentimes we think if we have a social event that it will just happen. That people will make friends with one another. So sometimes my pastor will, on our dominant Sundays, he'll say, go sit with someone that you don't know, and maybe two or three of us will actually do that. [00:06:58] Jim Jansen: Right? But he's trying to be intentional. He's like, he's trying to be intentional. He's like, because if we don't, there's no intentionality every just gonna sit by their friends. [00:07:03] Jodi Phillips: They're just gonna sit with their friends. Uh, and in fact, the last time this happened, my, my friend and I both made a beeline for the person that was sitting alone. And then we were like, well, okay, we're still together, but with a new person. But at, at a specifically coordinated relational outreach event, you've actually commissioned people ahead of time mm-hmm. Who have been planned and prepped to connect with the people who are there. So it's not a spur of the moment. There's, there's some coordination in that. [00:07:28] Whitney Bradley: Yeah. [00:07:28] Jodi Phillips: And the intentionality. [00:07:28] Whitney Bradley: The number goal isn't to like eat the donut after mass. [00:07:32] Jodi Phillips: Yeah. [00:07:32] Andy Dejka: Right. [00:07:33] Whitney Bradley: It's to meet someone new and not even stop there, but like hand out their number so that they can connect together, invite them to something next. [00:07:41] Jim Jansen: Oh yeah. They're, they're trying to make like a real connection. Mm-hmm. Which is, which is way beyond like, hi, welcome. Mm-hmm. Right. You know, we, we were talking kind of like before we turned the mics on, that there's almost like these kind of levels of outreach maturity within a, a community. And it's great to be, to say hi to people and to be welcoming when people come to us. That's good. That's kind of like, okay, we have to start there. And it's great to get to a place where people, where we understand, oh, this event has to be designed in this way. If newcomers will feel welcome, but we're really even hoping that we can get to the place where we are. I mean, as the name might, might imply actually going out. To them. Mm-hmm. Anything else that we missed here? Just kinda like the overview, just level setting here. [00:08:29] Andy Dejka: I just wanna say that I think for relational outreach leaders that really have the thirst of Jesus for souls, right? That Jesus just desires communion with every, every person, right? And so I. Yeah. Racial. They outreach. They have to be real missionaries. They have to be real missionaries. Yeah. Yeah. Who, who are thirsting for souls. [00:08:45] Jodi Phillips: Yeah. And I was just thinking about that too. Like it can't be just a, like I will meet 10 people because that's my goal, to meet 10 people. There has to be a real, again, because of that thirst of Jesus, a real desire to encounter the other person, right? Mm-hmm. Like I will actually friends with and listen to you and I'm not. Trying to convince or coerce you into anything, but you are here and I love you. [00:09:10] Jim Jansen: Well, and thank you. And that missionary thing, like that's not an introvert extrovert thing, right? So like, I'm an extrovert, you know, scale of one to 10, I'm probably an 11 extrovert. My, my lovely wife is an introvert. She's probably more effective. Relational outreach than I am, because I'll talk to 10 people at the party and I'll like, you know, check I, I talk to 10 people. She'll talk to one or two, but she'll actually make a real friend. She'll exchange a number. She'll have a, a time set up to go, you know, hang out later, play date with the kids, whatever. Like they will, she'll actually make a friend and I'll say hi to some people in small talk for a little while. So it really isn't, honestly, sometimes your best missionary disciples are introverted and they understand. I'm trying to build a deep connection here. Yep. Okay. Maybe one other thing that would be helpful just as, as we level set here, Whitney, can you talk a little bit about the distinction between what would be kind of an ordinary missionary disciples, apostolate? You know, I just make friends with people. I talk about my faith, you know, I just, I notice the people around me and something that would be like a parish based. Relational outreach ministry. I mean there, it's blurry, but there are just some distinctions that could be helpful. [00:10:25] Whitney Bradley: Sure. I mean. Missionary disciples are gonna mission whether you have a relational outreach. Oh, that's good or not. That's so good. I just repeated the same word twice. No, but like, but, but like, they're gonna mission no matter it's who they're, you can't stop 'em. Right? It's in the name. [00:10:40] Jim Jansen: This is like just little, like, so there's a Nebraska thing going on now. There's these billboards, I dunno if you guys have seen them, where they have a couple of farmers on these billboards, farmers, and it's like, it says like, no, it says like, you know, uh, corn, whatever, you know, bill Smith Corn farmer. And it's like, it's who I am. Not what I do. [00:10:57] Jodi Phillips: Hmm. [00:10:58] Whitney Bradley: Oh. [00:10:58] Jim Jansen: Which I just think is kind of cool, but, but that same thing for a missionary disciple, it's like, this is just who I am. Yeah. I'm not like deciding. I mean, sure. I sometimes I have to be intentional, but just, this is just like, I love the way you said that missionary disciples are just going to mission. [00:11:11] Whitney Bradley: Yeah. [00:11:11] Jim Jansen: They're gonna go on mission. [00:11:12] Whitney Bradley: They're gonna find the spaces if you don't provide it for them. [00:11:17] Jim Jansen: Yes. [00:11:17] Whitney Bradley: So that would be an apostle, it's, it's in their ordinary spaces. It's with coworkers with. Teammates with friends, with neighbors, and it's anything they can invite those people to, to build a relationship. And so sometimes as a small group, and sometimes it looks like something that we would have at the parish, but it's, it's happening at the impetus of the missionary disciple and it's happening in their personal spaces. We don't. Want to put the kibosh on those, we want that to happen, but we also want to give the missionary disciple a space to bridge the gap mm-hmm. Between their home and the parish community. Uh, I often think about acts of the apostles and how people were converted because of the love they saw between Christians. And we need more spaces that the love is obviously between Christians where we're not. It's not just, oh, you have a really good relationship with your spouse or, yeah, with my Juujitsu team. It's like you and Jenna Wilson. Who's my best friend and also on the team are just like, you have the best, most solid, most loving relationship we've ever seen. [00:12:31] Jim Jansen: Which is especially striking. 'cause we just watched you beat each other up. [00:12:34] Whitney Bradley: Right, right. In the most loving manner possible. We're usually giggling through it, but, but the, if you know, Jenna... [00:12:41] Jodi Phillips: That was quite the image. [00:12:43] Whitney Bradley: That's just what happens. [00:12:44] Jim Jansen: He, he, ouch. You're breaking my arm. [00:12:46] Whitney Bradley: Tap. Tap. But as much as we tell them well. It's because first we love Jesus, then we love each other. [00:12:52] Jim Jansen: Yeah. [00:12:52] Whitney Bradley: They just don't get it. But if I could bring these people to a space where it's like, well, obviously everybody's Christian here and wow, this is different than anything I've ever experienced, but it's not yet mass or even alpha because some of the people I want to bring back to church left that same church. [00:13:11] Jim Jansen: Right. [00:13:11] Whitney Bradley: Already. And so, like, even Alpha's not quite where they are yet. [00:13:15] Jim Jansen: No, this is, this is pre, I mean, the audience we're talking about here, the target pre evangelism, they, they're, yeah. They're, they're pre alpha. They're not ready yet to like, they're like, I'm not interested in hearing about Jesus yet. I'm not, I don't wanna talk about the big questions of life, you know, I might hang out with you. [00:13:32] Whitney Bradley: Yeah. So. [00:13:33] Jim Jansen: If, if you promise not to be weird. [00:13:36] Whitney Bradley: Hopefully you're not weird. [00:13:37] Jodi Phillips: Whitney can't help it. [00:13:38] Whitney Bradley: I'm a little weird. I was telling everyone I was, my weird is gonna show in these episodes. But you know, to get back to the original question, we want Apostolates, but when we're talking about a relational outreach ministry, it's gotta be attached to the pastor. [00:13:57] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm. [00:13:57] Whitney Bradley: In some way. It's gotta be something that he commissions and his authority is a part of it. [00:14:04] Jim Jansen: Right. 'cause it, because his authority is, I mean, real that there, but there's a geographic Yeah. There's like a territorial authority that he has care of souls. Yeah. Car of souls in, in this, in this, uh, zip code. [00:14:20] Jodi Phillips: Yeah. [00:14:20] Jim Jansen: These zip codes, this area. [00:14:21] Jodi Phillips: And it's a particular time and a particular space. [00:14:24] Jim Jansen: Yeah. And it's, I mean, we were talking about this like, you know, all of us try and live mission in ordinary lives. And of course accompaniment is the heart of this. I'm gonna make a friend, I'm gonna be a friend. I'm gonna try to bring that friend to Jesus. But in the process of, of making that friend and being that friend, it's really nice to not be the only one. If only there was a context related to my parish where I could bring people to experience other Christians who would love them, be non-judgmental, be non weird, who, who they could develop other relationships besides just me. That's what we're talking about. Okay. So Jodi. Mm-hmm. I wanna, I wanna ask you this here really practically. Like what are some of the ministries, uh, and programs that parishes use to foster the connection? I. Of relational outreach? [00:15:17] Jodi Phillips: Well, it's been really exciting actually lately we've seen a, a few parishes begin to develop processes for really what I would say is the primary means of relational outreach. Mm-hmm. Which is through first and foremost the neighborhoods and communities. Whitney spoke a little bit about the events and things that'll happen at the parishes, and I'll talk about that in a moment. But before you can even have something at the parish, you actually have to get to know the people in the geographical boundaries. Yeah. And so we're seeing that start to develop and, and really what that means is, again, the pastor is beginning to commission the missionary disciples within the parish to connect with the people in their neighborhoods and in their towns. Mm-hmm. Right. So this is gonna look different given the specific geographical boundaries of whatever parish or parishes that you belong to. So a few of those examples that we've seen. I'm really excited about what's going on at St. Charles Bo Mayo, for example. They're bringing in an organization called Scent Evangelization, which basically has these three components that are working together. You've got a team that is buildup of intercessors. Right. So their, their charisms, the gifts that the Lord has given them is that they love to intercede, right? So you find the people in your parish who are always in adoration, they're always interceding for other people. And you say, we're asking you to pray for this mission really intentionally, and you build them up and you train them. [00:16:43] Jim Jansen: Yeah. [00:16:43] Jodi Phillips: To be the intercessors of this particular mission. [00:16:47] Jim Jansen: Which, which just as a side note. Is a good idea for anything and everything. [00:16:51] Jodi Phillips: Everything. You should have a team of intercessors for every ministry of the country. [00:16:54] Jim Jansen: Right? So it's really helpful, you know, for relational outreach if you're gonna go out in the neighborhoods 'cause there's some fear and apprehension on our part and maybe on the people that we'll approach. But it's just good advice always. [00:17:05] Jodi Phillips: Yep. Yeah. The second team is, is the actual core evangelists, right? So these are the people who are, you're training and you're equipping to go out into the neighborhoods, which will be in a number of different ways, right? So the first was, is actually door to door, which in the Catholic world is like the most scary, the most terrifying thing you do. Keep listening. Hang in there. Hang in there, folks. Right? No, you're not going to the door and saying. Come to Jesus right now. Right. You're going in the door and you're meeting them. [00:17:33] Jim Jansen: Yeah. [00:17:34] Jodi Phillips: And you're building a relationship and you're getting to know them and, and you're asking them what their needs are. [00:17:39] Jim Jansen: Well, and often you're doing it 'cause like, Hey, I'm a member of this neighborhood. Yes. I may not live next door to you, but I'm, I'm a part of this subdivision, this community, and I'd like to get to know you and [00:17:51] Jodi Phillips: I'd like to get to know you. And so, and as you continue to build relationship, you have more opportunities to make more invitations. Now, the third group, one of the things that they foresee will happen, and that has happened in other parishes that have started this, is that as you get to know your neighbors, you get to know their needs. I. And just a very physical way. Mm-hmm. So they've set up a third team, which takes care of really the works of mercy. [00:18:14] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm. [00:18:14] Jodi Phillips: Right. Oh, you need, you need some financial help, or you're short on, on food, or you can't make your rent this month, or your air conditioner just broke, or no one can shovel your scoop. [00:18:26] Jim Jansen: Yeah. [00:18:26] Jodi Phillips: And so you have have. [00:18:27] Jim Jansen: Yeah, we noticed a, yeah. Three feet of, uh, unraked leaves on your yard. We have teens who could do that. [00:18:32] Jodi Phillips: Yep. So they, they hire, are commissioning a team who will, who will also be. Trained and commissioned. So it's really coordinated together that all three teams are reaching the neighborhood together with this really specific purpose of we're gonna, I mean, I think the best way to describe it's, it's real leaven in the communities. [00:18:48] Jim Jansen: Oh, that's really good. [00:18:49] Jodi Phillips: Yeah. [00:18:49] Andy Dejka: That's really exciting. And I, I love how, I think you said that's really like the authentic version Yeah. Of relational outreach. Because it's really like Jesus, the good shepherd, right. Going after the lost. Yes. Right. We're actually going out, um, and not expecting people to come to us. [00:19:04] Jim Jansen: Yeah. That's a key. Like, it's not like we're not knocking on doors and saying, Hey, mass is at 9:00 AM hope to see you there. We're just, it's, there isn't, and there isn't an agenda other than love. Mm-hmm. And of course part of the love is like, well, well you, somebody loved us and we'd love to introduce you to that person, uh, when the time is right. But for now, it's not. It's not proselytizing. It's not, I know we're gonna talk about that later. It's just like, Hey, we want to get to know you because you're our neighbor. And Jesus says, we're supposed to love our neighbor. [00:19:35] Jodi Phillips: Well, and I don't know, uh, about any of you if you've ever just encountered this happening to you. I think about, I had the experience the day before Easter of one of my neighbors who's not a Christian, but I was pulling into my driveway on the phone with someone and she comes and knocks on my window, which is a little terrifying at first. And I rolled down my window and she says, Jodi, miss Jodi, do you like champagne? And I said, I do. And she goes, that's all I needed to know. And I went into my house and she comes over with the most giant bottle of champagne and she said. I just had to see Miss Jodi, I wanted to bring you champagne. Like, I mean, right. Like that's. [00:20:13] Jim Jansen: That's, that's great. [00:20:14] Jodi Phillips: What a beautiful encounter. There was no like ulterior motive in her just loving me, and I can do that too. And I can do that with the love of Christ. [00:20:23] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Yeah. Moral of the story is if you love your neighbors, they'll bring you champagne. [00:20:28] Jodi Phillips: Yeah. [00:20:28] Andy Dejka: Right, right. That's where we're. [00:20:31] Jodi Phillips: I took her scones later. [00:20:34] Jim Jansen: Well, there's this beautiful ideal. We're actually loving our neighbors. We're, we're present to them. We're praying for them. We're meeting their physical needs. There's some other things though, as well, kind of like, well, maybe we'll label 'em supplemental things that a parish community can do to provide some of this relational outreach. What are those? [00:20:52] Jodi Phillips: Yeah, so Whitney talked about this just a little bit, but these are like specific events at the parish. No, I think these are probably going to be new things. Mm-hmm. So I think a little bit about St. Stephen. [00:21:04] Jim Jansen: Like a new event. [00:21:05] Jodi Phillips: New event, yeah. St. Stephen the Martyr, I think, has done this really well. They've done from time to time, tailgates. That they have, they have in the parking lot and, and people open up the, the trunk of their cars and. [00:21:18] Jim Jansen: Tail tailgate anything [00:21:19] Jodi Phillips: Yeah. [00:21:19] Jim Jansen: Is the word you're looking for. [00:21:20] Jodi Phillips: Yeah. That is the word. Listen, sometimes words just leave you. And, and it's this opportunity to invite people that they've been meeting in their neighborhoods. 'cause they're also doing neighborhood outreach. Yes. And building up captains for people within the neighborhoods to get to know the needs of the people. And, hey, we're gonna invite you here. And there's a super low bar. For people, it's a low commitment. Just come and mm-hmm. Spend some time with us. [00:21:44] Whitney Bradley: You are not even in the church. You're in the church parking lot. [00:21:47] Jodi Phillips: No. in the parking. They're in the parking lot. I bet they let you in to go to the bathroom. [00:21:50] Jim Jansen: Yeah. But it's designed from the ground up. Mm-hmm. To be really accessible, right? Mm-hmm. So even like the, it's like, oh, if our goal is to like, make a connection here and have a conversation, the music can't be too loud. Mm-hmm. For conversation. You know, like it can't be too crowded so that nobody can move and meet someone else, et cetera, et cetera. [00:22:10] Jodi Phillips: Yep. And I think what they've also done well, and we talked about this a little bit as we were talking about the characteristics and the intentionality, is that the missionary disciples talked about this a little bit in, again, the neighborhood outreach is you're commissioning teams to do particular work, right? So the people who. Ought to be building relationships and connecting are not your people who are setting up. Right. Right. They're not doing chairs, cooking food. [00:22:37] Jim Jansen: They're not cook. Cook. Yeah. They're not cooking. Yeah. They're meeting people. [00:22:40] Jodi Phillips: They're meeting people. And those other gifts are really necessary to the work of the church. Right. And that's why the Lord gives people. Particular gifts in administration and helps and things like that. And we need them. If the church is going to advance and let's put the people who have those gifts in those spots so that then the people who have charisms of wisdom and evangelization and pastoring can do those things really well. And so that things like this can be fruitful. [00:23:06] Whitney Bradley: Yeah. But if the, if the ministry is built correctly. [00:23:09] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm. [00:23:10] Whitney Bradley: Then even those in the Martha positions. In the background. They know they're doing it so that Mary can sit it the feet of Jesus. Like they know why, what their purpose is, and they're not complaining about it. They're actually excited that, you know, Jim is gonna be out there meeting 10 people. [00:23:27] Jim Jansen: Right? Yeah. They're not thinking like, why the heck isn't Jim cooking sausage? Yes. They're like, oh, I am so happy to cook. So one, because I mean, it'd be better if I do it rather never done, rather than Jim never done. Yeah. But like, but also they, they're like, they want the extroverts, those who have missionary hearts training to be out there meeting people. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And, and honestly, they're like, that's why I cook sausage. I'm cooking sausage and, and I want that smell to, to waft out to the neighborhood and draw people in. [00:23:55] Jodi Phillips: Yeah. And then I think other supplemental, so I mean, one, these are really essential. Again, Whitney mentioned this, it's, it's really important that our parishes have things on their property, which is a bridge between the, I've gotten to know you in my neighborhood and I. Okay, you're open or, or seeking the Lord because there's this space of trust, right? Right. And we're just built like, it's like, I think trust needs to expand now. We don't want people to get stuck there and sometimes they do. Like for those of us who have done college ministry, I can think of any number of college students who just kind of got stuck in the community. [00:24:30] Jim Jansen: Right. They only came to the food stuff and they never quite transitioned. [00:24:34] Jodi Phillips: Never quite, yeah. Yeah. And that's gonna happen. [00:24:36] Jim Jansen: Yet. Yet. [00:24:37] Jodi Phillips: Yet. Right. But we keep, we keep inviting them and we keep connecting and they keep coming. Right? So this is really an essential thing. [00:24:47] Jim Jansen: This is like, I don't wanna open a can of worms, but I think it's important here. Some parishes when you're thinking about this. I just wanna highlight what you said, like this is often a new ministry. Mm-hmm. Something that's been created. So like when St. Stephens did it, they weren't already doing tailgates because some of you, I know you're thinking, you're like, oh, sweet. We could take our fish fry or our festival and make it relational outreach. And it's like, that's really, really tough, really hard, because chances are your festival's too loud for real conversation. Chances are your fish fry is too crowded for really making connection. Chances are the like the, the people like the whole purpose is like, we're trying to make money. This is the pay, the lights, this, and taking an event that's about making money or even an event that's just about helping current members. Have fun together. Right? It's about fellowship. That's a different purpose than an event that is designed to be hospitable to outsiders. Now they're not like, totally contrary. I mean okay. The, the fundraising thing might be totally contrary, but, but they're like, oh, fellowship for, for believers and welcoming new people. But it's hard, it's really hard to make that, that conversion. [00:25:59] Whitney Bradley: You're not just tweaking an event and like adding missionary disciples in, you're changing the entire purpose of the event. [00:26:04] Jodi Phillips: Yeah. [00:26:05] Whitney Bradley: And. You know, whether it's ever been spoken aloud or not, each person who runs that event has an idea about what the goal of that event is, and getting them to change their mind about it feels difficult. [00:26:16] Jim Jansen: Yeah. It's moving the goalpost. [00:26:18] Jodi Phillips: And there's just also, uh, there's, we were talking about this earlier. There's a cultural movement that that's already involved. So I, yeah. In my family of parishes, we have a fish fry, which is. I think like the fish fry of Omaha, if you were to name one, it's. [00:26:33] Jim Jansen: It might be the fish fry of the country, to be honest. Yeah. Holy name everybody. [00:26:37] Jodi Phillips: Yeah. It's, it's pretty, you know, it's known, it's famous. It's famous and, and there's something really beautiful about the way that it draws in people from around the entire community. I've gone and, and just the people like it's a community event. That's what it is. One, it's enormous. So the amount of missionary disciples you would have to commission to actually be in that space. I'm not saying it's impossible and maybe in time we will be able to do that. [00:27:01] Whitney Bradley: Well, missionary disciples gonna mission. Yeah. So you can show up and you we can jump up. Do it. You can do your thing. [00:27:05] Jodi Phillips: And, and if I encounter one new person, that will be worth it. Right. But to really overhaul that event is probably a decade away. Right? Yeah. It's a challenge. It's a long time. [00:27:15] Jim Jansen: And again, yay for baby steps, right? Yep. We, we know, um, shout out to St. Patrick's Elkhorn, you know, who said, okay, we're gonna have baby steps, we're gonna have table tents at the fish R that talk about the next alpha course. We're gonna, we're gonna have, you know. Specific missionary disciples, they're commissioned, they eat free. Everybody knows they get to s they're just there the whole time. Uh, and we'll try and arrange the tables and, and such, so there's always room. So I mean, they, you know, people can take baby steps, but we just wanna offer a warning. It's harder than you think to try and take an existing event and transform it, uh, an existing fundraising event or even a fellowship event and transform it to be relational outreach. [00:27:54] Whitney Bradley: Didn't Steven the martyr cancel their parish festival in order to. [00:27:58] Jim Jansen: I'm, so this is, I, yeah, they, they, they killed the festival because they killed it. It's like, okay. They stopped, they, they gently stopped doing the festival because it wasn't, they're like, okay, it really isn't that effective at making money. It's honestly not that fun. And then what we end, what we end up doing. Sorry, father belt. Sorry. No, I mean, but, but what they ended up doing is like, oh, we end up spending. We put our best people running the ring toss. Mm-hmm. And so they can't be out having conversation and so, hey, this is an easier event. It's just more fun to, to do, you know, they have bouncy houses and stuff, so it's very kid friendly and it actually accomplishes more easily the core mission of the parish. Right. We, we, we wanna try and connect, uh, with this, this mission feel, this neighborhood that God's given us. Okay. Thank you. I just wanted to take that Yeah. Because I did. Because we've been, we, we've been part of several conversations where people are like, you know what we're gonna do, and we're like, YI mean, yay. Could try to change it, but it's harder than you think. Yeah. And starting something new is probably a wiser, easier way forward. [00:29:02] Jodi Phillips: And then slowly over time, continuing just to align the things that are already happening, which I think we ought to be doing anyway. [00:29:08] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Alright, keep going, Jodi. There's other ways that people do this. [00:29:11] Jodi Phillips: Yeah, I think the, the other kind of supplemental means is continuing just to equip and form your missionary disciples to, to have their personal apostolates, right? Mm-hmm. So I think this is, what's that f um. Oh my goodness. F seven, there's a ministry or like. [00:29:29] Jim Jansen: Oh yeah, the work, the guys work out thing. [00:29:30] Jodi Phillips: The guys that work out across Omaha, they're kind of all over the city. [00:29:34] Whitney Bradley: Not, not CrossFit. [00:29:35] Jodi Phillips: No. [00:29:36] Jim Jansen: It's a national thing. Yeah. And sorry, we're, let's, let's say it's F four. F four, FF. No, that sounds too much like a tornado. I don't know. [00:29:42] Jodi Phillips: Yeah, it, it sounds like. [00:29:43] Jim Jansen: Whatever, it's. [00:29:43] Jodi Phillips: Yeah. [00:29:44] Jim Jansen: It's a cool thing. I'm so sorry guys. We're, we're butchering it. [00:29:46] Jodi Phillips: Yeah. [00:29:47] Jim Jansen: You just call us and let know. [00:29:48] Jodi Phillips: And it's just a really great opportunity. They go and they work out with a bunch of men and they build relationships and I, so I know several men who've done this and it's been a really great way to continue to build relationships with people, um, and eventually make some invitations potentially to a small group or to something else. I think you can start a softball league. I know of a lot of people, like women who have, well-read mom book clubs and that can become a really easy, like, Hey, don't you wish you read more? What if we started. Maybe praying a little bit or what if these books like this has a deep spiritual meaning, let's have a conversation here. Or men who have cigar nights and um, fire pits. That one feels really popular. So just like these opportunities, but, but they're being really intentional in. Again, kind of having focused conversations in these space. It's not just we get together and we play a game or we read a book, but let's actually start to engage in some more than the weather conversations. [00:30:45] Jim Jansen: Right. It's not just about the hobby. Yeah. Which is probably, it's a nice thing to offer. Maybe a shout out. Andy helped develop some, uh, awesome material called Elevate, which is basically, it's like a small group resource. Just designed to help you as the facilitator, as a gatherer, elevate the conversation. You know, it's just four questions that you can kind of throw out there. You can have in your back pocket so you can have a little bit more meaningful conversation to get to know. I. Each other at a deeper level, which is, you know, often a bridge to like, oh, and I have this other friend named Jesus that, you know, when the time is right, I'd like to introduce you to him too. [00:31:21] Jodi Phillips: Mm-hmm. [00:31:22] Whitney Bradley: Yeah, but not to beat a dead horse or anything. So, so speaking as someone who has one of those secular groups. [00:31:29] Jim Jansen: Wait, what, what is your secular group again? [00:31:30] Whitney Bradley: I do a sport called Brazilian Jiujitsu, and at my gym there are actually quite a few women and uh, we're noted for. So it's affiliated with an a national group and we're noted for the women actually having a good relationship. Apparently that's not the case in other gyms. And I mean, women can be catty. And then you put us in a competitive space and well, you see how it goes. A competitive against men even, and you feel like you have to raise the bar. But we have a, um, my friend Jenna and I have a small group that meets kind of sporadically, usually, most commonly during Lent, but also at other times where we do intentionally pray, we teach people to pray, things like that. But then we also had started a monthly, like what I would call relational outreach. Just a monthly brunch with these women so that Jenna and I could get into conversations and then invite them to the small group. But the reality is, as much as this is going really well, the most it's achieved is that good culture at our gym and it's brought more women into the gym. Great... [00:32:33] Jim Jansen: mm-hmm. [00:32:33] Whitney Bradley: ...for the gym. But I'm really struggling to bridge that gap between what they're experiencing in that small group or at that brunch than that small group to then coming to a church. [00:32:45] Jodi Phillips: Mm-hmm. [00:32:45] Jim Jansen: Right. Well, because the parish culture, you need a bridge, need a bridge, a hospitality and, and a place where like, yeah, something. Just like you were talking about, it's like, okay, yes, it's, it's the jiujitsu and it's brunch and... [00:32:59] Jodi Phillips: mm-hmm. [00:33:00] Jim Jansen: Man, I don't have a, a natural first step into parish... [00:33:02] Whitney Bradley: ...and do you wanna become Catholic? [00:33:04] Jim Jansen: Yeah. It's too big. [00:33:04] Whitney Bradley: It's just not the easiest. [00:33:06] Jim Jansen: It's too big. [00:33:06] Jodi Phillips: Yeah. [00:33:07] Jim Jansen: It's too big. [00:33:07] Jodi Phillips: Yeah. So these are really, really good things. And again, missionary disciples, especially those who. Really like fill a yearning and have the gifts for people who are kind of furthest from making a decision like they're gonna do it. And, and for some of them, they will continue to walk with people through making a decision like that will happen. We will see that I. But it will be so much more fruitful if it's not done in isolation from the parish there and there other missionary disciples. [00:33:33] Jim Jansen: Again, for those you know, parish leaders that are listening, ministry leaders that are listening, if you get nothing else out of this, like your missionary disciples are hungering for a context where they can bring some of the people. That they're accompany, that they've developed friend friendships with, but they, but they don't have a place to do that. Mm-hmm. And when they do it really, I mean, it really speeds up the process of, you know, uh, conversion and, and filling up your, your alpha. But it's really hard to do. I mean, most of us have served in some way, shape or form as professional missionaries, and we're like, I need that context. I need a place to bring people. It's so key. There's one other thing, and Whitney, I wanna invite you to, to talk about this. We have not talked about, and this could be a huge conversation, but like the role of like religious education and the parish school, because oftentimes there's, there's an opportunity there. Um, it's, you know, maybe not technically outreach, but it's all, this is these places where, where people come to us, they, they trust us with their children and we're oftentimes not doing. What we could to help bridge that trust into a deeper life in the parish. Can you just say a couple of words on that? [00:34:50] Whitney Bradley: Maybe? Um, can I get a lifeline? Does anybody else have a thought? [00:34:55] Andy Dejka: Well, I was just thinking, um, when you're able to reach out to maybe some other parents in the school who have that missionary heart, um, for other parents, they have a relationship with Jesus and they just desire for others to, to know, being able to invite them and equip them to reach out to some other parents. Within some of the existing groups that are already happening. [00:35:14] Jim Jansen: Right? I mean, it's, again, it's not exactly what we're talking about here, but a, a sideline at a sporting event or a kindergarten roundup or whatever, like there's some preexisting contexts within. Religious education and the schools in particular, where a missionary minded parent with a little bit of help could meet other parents, develop friendships, and then help draw those parents deeper into their faith. But we have to have eyes to see it. We have to identify those missionary disciples. They have to often be commissioned, maybe a little bit of equipping encouragement. You know, maybe they're like, yeah, that'd be great. Could you make the event like less crazy loud or whatever, you know, just, just to like, help them with, with what they, again, they, they will do it naturally, but we can help them. That could be a whole nother conversation some other time. Andy, we've talked about, okay, this is what relational outreach is. Here's some of the ways people do it. If people are gonna choose a relational outreach method that's best to them, it's kind, that's a discernment exercise. How can parishes discern what's best for their community? When it comes to relational outreach. [00:36:29] Andy Dejka: It's right that it has to be a discernment, right? It has to be something where you gather people for prayer and really ask the Holy Spirit what, what doors he's opening, but to start with the people that, that you already know, that have, have that missionary heart start. Start with it. The multiplication of the lows. Right? What do you have? Start with what you have. We sometimes have really big dreams and desires about reaching everybody, but that, that can paralyze us from actually taking a step forward. So we start with, we start with what we have. I'd also say we don't want to just do what's comfortable, right? We, we can easily have an, a temptation to think, well, this way would be clean and easy. But when it comes to relational outreach, it's gonna be messy. Right? It's you're, you're dealing with relationships with people. It's going to be messy, so you can't be afraid of just getting into the messiness of relationships with people. [00:37:16] Jim Jansen: Well, and, and those people, they're like, so they're not disciples again, whether or not they've been baptized, whether or not they would claim a church or a Catholic label. I. They're like, they, they might say bad words now and then, you know, like, they're not gonna, they're not, they don't come to church. [00:37:31] Jodi Phillips: I've never done that. [00:37:32] Jim Jansen: You never, no, I know, but no. They're like, thank you. We're so glad that you could, but like, it's so pure. No, but like, they're not living like disciples. Right. So like, it's so weird when we sometimes expect people who aren't disciples to live like disciples. So they're gonna, they will, they will do things that will make us uncomfortable. Mm-hmm. Aside from the fact that, you know, structurally. It's harder to make this programmatic and systematic. [00:37:57] Andy Dejka: Mm-hmm. [00:37:57] Jim Jansen: Because it is so, so much driven by relationship. [00:38:00] Andy Dejka: Right. So the burden is really on, on us to bring charity into those situations. There's a That's great. A quote from, from St. John Cross was, now you're making me uncomfortable. No, I, I love, I, I love the, the quote from St. John on the cross where he says. Where there is no love, put love and you will find love. Right? So it's on where there is no love, put love and you will find love. Right? So it's really on the, the burden's on us to extend charity, to excuse, to give the best interpretation of the crazy things that people say. It's gonna be messy, right? And we have to be able to put up with the, the messiness for the sake of loving people. [00:38:35] Jim Jansen: Andy, I wanna, I wanna throw you a little curve ball here. Let everybody jump in. Like what happens when you don't actually discern it? What I mean by that is like what? What is it? Like, Hey, we're gonna do this as our relational outreach. You know, we got a festival coming up anyway. That's gonna be our relational outreach. Let's get some missionary disciples. You guys go get people. Like when it's not a prayerful, spirit led discernment about how to begin to reach out. Like what happens. [00:39:02] Andy Dejka: Well, it's gonna go off the rails. [00:39:04] Jodi Phillips: Yeah. [00:39:05] Andy Dejka: To put it, put it simply, but. [00:39:07] Jodi Phillips: It's just not gonna work. [00:39:08] Andy Dejka: It's not gonna work. [00:39:09] Whitney Bradley: It won't be fruitful. [00:39:09] Andy Dejka: Right. And I think we won't enter into it with the right motivation. Right. We might, we might enter into it with a motivation of just desiring to win converts. Right. Like going back to what we were talking about proselytism. Sure. Yeah. Before, um, just a mindset of I just wanna convert people. And so then not respecting. Their dignity as human beings. But I think then it, we might also go to the other extreme where we don't respect their human dignity in just knowing the gospel, right? Mm-hmm. That Jesus took on our humanity and elevated our human dignity to a new level. Right. It ends. So it might it be, might, it might be one extreme or the other. [00:39:41] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Either too intentional or too explicit or, or not enough, or too big or too small. And then people get discouraged. The missionary disciples you have, you're like, well, crap. And suddenly those people just aren't interested in faith. And so let's, you know, let's, let's stay in our little hobbit holes and. [00:39:59] Whitney Bradley: Well that, or you won't even be able to get your missionary disciples to show up because it's not meeting a need of theirs, or they don't care about it or it's, you know what I mean? [00:40:07] Jim Jansen: Well, or they know it's not gonna work. I remember. Oh, tragically. Right? I mean, this is a hard lesson for me many times as as a missionary. Yeah. I talked to some of the students about this cool outreach event we planned and we're like, how come you're not bringing your friends? We're like. It's actually not a cool event, Jim. [00:40:28] Jodi Phillips: That's maybe less about discernment. [00:40:30] Jim Jansen: Yeah. It's like I, I know you're excited about it, but I'm not, and my friends aren't, and like, oh, okay. You know, so, okay. There's a, there's a lot to this. [00:40:39] Jodi Phillips: I, yeah. I just wanna, it's just I been rereading the soul of the Apostolate by Jean-Baptiste Chautard and, and literally this morning was reading about like the Lord's sovereignty over. Really the interior life and he was talking about the heresy of good works, right? Yeah. Of like, I will do this without the Lord. And that, that's kind of what it feels like, right? Anytime we try to do something without really asking the Lord to run it right. Um, it just kind of crashes and burns. [00:41:08] Jim Jansen: Yeah. And if you ask Jesus and you ask your key leaders, right, the missionary disciples you have, okay, what do you need? What do the people that you are accompanying need? You're gonna get a good answer. Right? [00:41:22] Whitney Bradley: And your pastor, by the way. [00:41:24] Jim Jansen: Yeah. And your pastor. Well, yeah. [00:41:24] Whitney Bradley: Know your pastor's heart. [00:41:25] Jim Jansen: Yeah. The pastor. Yeah. And like, it'll grow and mature. I, I just wanna give all of you a chance to kind of jump in here. Like, all of this is way more than theory. Um, you know, we've, we've seen this, we've tried to live it. We've been walking, uh, with others who are trying to start relational outreach ministries that flourish. We've seen some flourish, we've seen some struggle. Uh, what are the secrets to success? Wait, wait. Not all at once. [00:41:49] Whitney Bradley: I guess I just feel like maybe we've already named them like, so it, it's probably obvious, but a again, start with something organic. Start with something that's probably already going. I, and I don't mean like changing something that's already going on in your parish. Mm-hmm. But something that's already going on in your missionary disciples lives. [00:42:08] Jim Jansen: Right. They're already gathering people together, you know, for fire pit barbecues in their neighborhood. We're like, great. How, how can we bless that and, and help grow that [00:42:19] Andy Dejka: good? What else? You don't want this to just be a theory or a big idea creation of a big program without actually talking with people that actually meeting your neighbor to start with the organic, just get into, which is the hardest step to take because. We wanna be liked. Um, but, but to be able to take that step and just make the relational choice before you go and design some kind of big ministry or program. [00:42:47] Jodi Phillips: Hmm. Yeah, can I actually, I would love to shout out one of our leaders Please, in this space. Um, so I'd love to shout out Adam Stevenson, who I think actually listens to this, so he's gonna be really bu yeah. Adam. So I mentioned St. Charles Bo Mayo bringing Scent Evangelization, but Adam's been spending the last year and a half as pastoral minister at St. Charles Bo Mayo, just walking the neighborhoods mm-hmm. Around St. Charles Bo Romeo, getting to know the people. Like lining out the neighborhoods. Where are there parishioners? Where are there people who he knows are kind of fallen away Catholics? [00:43:23] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Like who is the Lord already planted in these spaces? Yeah. He's been [00:43:26] Jodi Phillips: assessing and discerning and, and like personally meeting the people all to prepare for this weekend of training, which I, he didn't know that that was what he was preparing for this specific training. Right. But. Yeah. It's been really beautiful. And then as he's invited people on and as it's formed and shaped his mind to this, I, I mean, I'm just, I'm really very proud of the work that he's done. Mm-hmm. And, and of, of Father Jeff, as they've discerned it together and as they're inviting other people on board, I. It's been a slow work. I wanna just like, it's not like, I think if you had asked him two years ago, he'd be like, we're gonna get the neighborhoods tomorrow if you've ever met Adam. And, but it's been slow and, and that has felt right. [00:44:07] Whitney Bradley: Mm-hmm. [00:44:07] Jim Jansen: Yeah. It's very fundamental. I mean, similarly, I don't know, maybe it's with the name Adam, but I mean, Adam Ybarra, father Dave Belt at St. Stephens, who we've talked about. Mm-hmm. [00:44:15] Whitney Bradley: I was like, father Dave's name isn't Adam. Sorry, I was confused. [00:44:20] Jim Jansen: You're right. So good. Uh, but like they're deeply committed. Not only do they have like the parish, you know, parking lot. You know, the, uh, tailgates, but they're also committed to really doing neighborhood outreach, you know, developing these kind of small cell communities within the neighborhoods, uh, where people can connect. And man, it's not easy. I mean, just 'cause the biggest, one of the biggest problems is like our own habits. It's like, oh my gosh, I'm so busy doing churchy stuff. I sometimes don't meet my neighbors. So it's, it's not, none of this happens quickly. But it's, it's, right. It's the, the, you can tell the Lord is leading it. You can already see some of the fruits that are coming. [00:44:59] Whitney Bradley: Well, and there's a reason that this is the last step in most parishes to be built on the clear path because missionary disciples, you've been building them and growing them, and by the time you're ready to. Do relational outreach. They're already in the vineyard. They're already right. Yeah. Doing something. They can tell you what those grapes need, you know, and so it, it'll blossom suddenly. It'll feel like you've been working on it for four years, even though you've probably just been letting the field life fallow and, and kind of see what volunteer sprouts come up. [00:45:35] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Well there's all of this work that is happening. I mean, we say like, I. Invisibly, right? [00:45:40] Whitney Bradley: Mm-hmm. [00:45:40] Jim Jansen: It's all this stuff like, it's kind of like one day the chicken hatches outta the egg, and we're like, whoa. Overnight transformation. It's like, well, no. There was actually a lot of stuff going on before the actual hatching happened, which that can feel very, all of a sudden there's this beautiful neighborhood ministry. Where did that come from? Well, there's been years of helping convert hearts and minds, forming people for mission, forming people in the prayer, so they actually have the heart of the Lord to chase lost sheep. This may be actually helpful. How would you just. Like just shout outs here. How would you do that? How would you form people for mission? Um, I mean, that's a whole nother conversation about evangelization formation, but just like the whatever thumbnail sketch of that. [00:46:22] Jodi Phillips: Yeah, no, I think particularly, I was just thinking about this, like, if you're gonna send people out into the neighborhoods, they one need to know what your clear path is so they know when they encounter someone what to invite someone to next. [00:46:32] Jim Jansen: Yes. [00:46:33] Jodi Phillips: And then second, they need to know the thresholds of conversion and discipleship and how to ask the right questions to suss out. Where someone is at because just because they've never met their neighbor doesn't mean their neighbor actually is far from a decision. Maybe they're so true. Maybe this person has been reading and um, like we've all had that experience of this person who's just like, wait, where did you come from? [00:46:55] Jim Jansen: It's exactly, oh my gosh. Exactly. My experience. Like one of my, one of my neighbors, you know, like we're talking and we're kind of like very. You know, multiple, just casual encounters and then all of a sudden I see this, like they've got this super, I think it was like a John Paul ii. We're on a mission from God coffee mug, and I'm like, ha. Wow. I, and we, you know, it turned into a great conversation, but turns out this is a very faithful, committed Catholic man that I just had no idea. [00:47:23] Jodi Phillips: Yep. Yeah. And, or they're like ready for, for Christian initiation. Absolutely. Yeah. And to be receiving the church, or they really need alpha and there's been all this work, like the Lord is already tilling the soil, but I need to have the eyes to see, and the ears to hear what the Lord is doing. And also maybe just some common language to be like, oh, okay, this person is, is ready for this step. Um, and so that I can, so being able to assess where they're at in the threshold and then know where to connect them. [00:47:50] Jim Jansen: Yeah, yeah. Which we might, we might connect on this, but like we've created a whole little game, the thresholds game, uh, thresholds of conversion and discipleship. So you can find that on the website. We can link on it. Um, you can find it ClearPath book.com. Just simple game. You play, it takes about a half hour, then you have some conversation and it helps. Right. Just faithful disciples who have a missionary orientation begin to have a mental framework to recognize where others are at so they can meet them where they're at. [00:48:20] Jodi Phillips: Just one more thing I just realized, I'm like, I should probably make this explicit. I think it's implicit, uh, we have to form them in prayer. Mm. Like, yes. That's first and foremost before any of that is that we have to help our leaders. We can't assume that they have a lived daily relationship with the Lord. I. Even people who have great zeal. [00:48:41] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm. [00:48:41] Jodi Phillips: But that, that daily personal encounter with the Lord, because otherwise, how can I hear what the Lord is doing in someone else's life if I don't know what he is doing in my life? [00:48:50] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm. Well, and, and I would add some level of formation in intercession. Yes. So it's like my personal conversation with the Lord and my, my, my prayer, again, none of this is rocket science, but my prayer for my neighbors. How, how do I, how do I develop the habits and routines that I am bringing those in my life to the Lord? And so I can recognize then what he's doing and how he might be inviting me to be, be a part of that. [00:49:18] Andy Dejka: I just add too on how to form people. I. Forming them in asking questions. Right. That asking questions yes. Is one of the best methods for relational outreach. Mm-hmm. Because people love to talk about themselves and they love to feel like people are interested mm-hmm. In them. Right. So especially if you like, just notice. Around your neighborhood, right. That you're, you have a neighbor that loves working on his car, he's always outside working on his car. Mm-hmm. Being able to go up and just ask questions about his car. [00:49:44] Jim Jansen: And admire the car and admire the car. [00:49:46] Andy Dejka: Right. Show an interest and that's gonna create a frame for a conversation that's. [00:49:51] Jim Jansen: Okay. Andy, I wanna build off something you said here. 'cause I think oftentimes there's mental hangups that we have maybe as a parish leader or as an individual missionary disciple, that like, no, you don't have to like, you know, walk up to your neighbor and, and give a gospel presentation. You just ask some questions and get to know them. What are some of the other mental hangups that are important either for a leader or for an individual to get past? To be able to be in a space to discern relational outreach well and to do relational outreach? [00:50:22] Andy Dejka: Well, I mean, I think the biggest hangup is just fear generally. Right? Fear, um, that I don't have what it takes or fear that I'm gonna mess it up. So. Prayer. Right. Like Jodi said, being formed in prayer is, is the, is definitely a place to start, um, to help get over that hangup of fear, um, that the Lord's gonna be with me. Um, and then community as well as an antidote to fear. Right. Right. Like don't, don't do it alone. Right. Don't do it alone. Yeah. And if I've got other people that I know who are in it with me, who are also trying these things and some are succeeding, failing, um, but we're all in it together. Right. [00:50:56] Whitney Bradley: I'm sorry I'm laughing 'cause I'm thinking of. When I was gonna start a Live Lent Together group, I told, I told the Lord no three times. I'm very Peter esque, uh, to doing it with the Juujitsu gym. And then finally I was like. Well, fine. I'll say yes, but you gotta give me someone to do it with. I'm so sassy. And, um, and he, [00:51:19] Jim Jansen: I'm, I'm shocked. [00:51:19] Whitney Bradley: Yeah. [00:51:19] Jim Jansen: I'm quiet 'cause I'm shocked. [00:51:21] Whitney Bradley: And he was immediately like, uh, how about Jenna Wilson, your literal best friend who probably has more zeal for you than you for this stuff. And. Does. Jiujistu. With. You. [00:51:30] Jim Jansen: Who also happens to be at the gym. [00:51:32] Whitney Bradley: I was like fine. But it's what got us to do it, you know. [00:51:37] Jodi Phillips: Doing it together. [00:51:37] Whitney Bradley: Was being it in it together. [00:51:38] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Yeah. What else? Just like a couple, like, you know, pro tips, mental hangups here, you gotta be careful about this. [00:51:45] Whitney Bradley: You just gotta start. I know. [00:51:47] Jim Jansen: Yeah. [00:51:47] Whitney Bradley: I mean, it's maybe similar to what Andy was saying. To fear. 'cause fear kind of covers it all. But don't wait till you're ready, just go. [00:51:56] Jim Jansen: Well, or till you have like a .Perfect big, like, oh man, we, we we're gonna have to buy a really big grill to do this huge tailgate and probably a sound system. Like no, no, no, no. Like, just get started. [00:52:06] Whitney Bradley: Well, not even that, but I, I feel like one of the main tactics of the devil is to, to use your idea of what a perfect disciple is against you going out on mission. And so. Set aside whatever you think you need in order to be ready and just start. [00:52:26] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm. [00:52:27] Whitney Bradley: And it's the experience of being on mission that's gonna make you ready, quote unquote. 'cause you're never actually going to be ready for all the things that the Lord will throw your way, but he'll be with you in it. And so you just, you just gotta go and trust that he's walking alongside you. [00:52:43] Jim Jansen: Well, and that's exactly, this hit me about a year ago. He promises, right? I will be with you always until the end of the age. Which is true in every age and in every circumstance. But when he makes that promise it, it is a promise made very explicitly in the context of the great Commission, right? Go make disciples and in your making of disciples, I will be with you always. And so that you know, I mean Jesus is with us in all circumstances, but I think there's a special with us. And encouragement that he offers when we're responding to the commission that he's given us. Alright, guys, our time has totally flown here. Any last kind of bits of advice or encouragement for people who are kind of feeling the conviction? They're eager to start to discern this and, and choose a, a relational outreach that's right for their parish. [00:53:35] Andy Dejka: One thing that comes to mind is just having, uh, real empathy for wear. People are that, that aren't in the same place as we are. [00:53:42] Whitney Bradley: Mm-hmm. [00:53:42] Jim Jansen: Yeah. [00:53:42] Andy Dejka: That people are starting from just a different place. And the things that we find attractive, the things that we find, um, just normal as, as part of a Christian culture, are completely outside of people's comfort zone. [00:53:54] Jim Jansen: Yeah. That's not normal for them. [00:53:55] Andy Dejka: Right. [00:53:55] Jim Jansen: They didn't have a good experience growing up Catholic. [00:53:59] Jodi Phillips: Or they can't even imagine. [00:54:00] Andy Dejka: Right. It's beyond their imagination. [00:54:02] Jim Jansen: Yeah. [00:54:02] Andy Dejka: Yeah. Be really, really attentive to, um, having empathy for people and where they're starting from. [00:54:07] Whitney Bradley: Mm-hmm. [00:54:07] Jim Jansen: Well, and even add. Empathy towards outsiders, but also empathy towards insiders. Mm-hmm. I mean, this is, this is where I sometimes struggle. So much of my life has been shaped by being a missionary, and so I now think just reflexively as a missionary, and when others don't, when, when, when they get confused about the idea of going out to people. I need to have empathy for that. 'cause like I served, you know, as a mission. I mean, I've been a missionary for 25, 30 years and that's not, you know, that's not like. That's not normal. I mean, hopefully it's becoming more normal, but it's just we have to have empathy for insiders and outsiders. [00:54:45] Andy Dejka: Yeah. Mm-hmm. [00:54:45] Jodi Phillips: Mm-hmm. [00:54:46] Whitney Bradley: And I would say let that empathy lead to meeting very specific needs of people. Don't imagine what their needs are. Uh, go find out what they are and, and be with them in a very human way first before you even bring up Jesus. [00:55:01] Jim Jansen: Amen. We have an awesome resource. Uh, we put together a relational outreach comparison chart that just talks about like options for relational outreach, you know, the characteristics. It, it talks about, you know, scent evangelization, uh, different forms of neighborhood outreach, all sorts of like really good stuff. Some of the common elements that almost always. Help form relation outreach, the meals, the celebrations, et cetera, et cetera. It's a really cool resource. Uh, we're gonna link to that so you all can, uh, download that gets the conversation started, and then we'd love to be a part of the conversation. Give us a call. We're, you know, here at the Chancery, here at the Archdiocese of Omaha, uh, you could respond back in the chat@quip.archomaha.org. We'll link to some other cool stuff. Guys, anything else we're missing here? [00:55:51] Whitney Bradley: We really mean it when we say give us a call. [00:55:53] Jim Jansen: Yeah. It is kind of our job. [00:55:55] Jodi Phillips: Yeah. But we also like our job. [00:55:57] Jim Jansen: We do like our job and we like the people that are part of our job. Okay. Awesome. Jodi, Andy, Whitney, thank you for being with us. Everybody. You know somebody who needs to hear this. So when you get to your destination, walking the dog, driving whenever, when you're a safe place, share this out with a friend and thanks for listening. Thanks for listening to the Quip Cast. We hope this episode has inspired you to live your faith and equip you to be fruitful in your mission. Stay connected with us by going to equip dot arch omaha.org. God bless and see you next time.