[00:00:00] Jim Jansen: Hey everybody. Welcome to the Equip Cast. So today I sit down with Janet Sobczyk and we talk all about her work, supporting parents and catechists in the preparation for children and adults with special needs to receive their sacraments. It's a fascinating conversation as Janet talks about her own calling, the story of, of just the way her heart changed as she, uh, her own daughter with special needs was prepared for the sacrament.

At the end, right around the 40 minute mark, she begins to talk about some of the universal lessons, uh, and you're gonna love this, just the, the power of one on one teaching for communicating the faith, the importance of relying on the Holy Spirit, starting with an encounter with Jesus. And really following your heart, that when you feel a tug from the Lord, you need to follow your heart and let him equip you as you say yes to him and follow him on mission.

It's a great conversation. You're going to love it. Take a listen. Hey everybody. Welcome to the EquipCast, a weekly podcast for the Archdiocese of Omaha. I'm your host, Jim Jansen. Now let's dive into some encouragement and inspiration to equip you to live your faith And to be fruitful in your mission, let's go.

Janet Sobczyk, welcome to the EquipCast. How are you doing today? 

[00:01:25] Janet Sobczyk: I'm good. Thanks for inviting me, Jim. Appreciate it. 

[00:01:28] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Thank you for, thank you for being here. Okay. Janet, this is, I don't actually totally remember how we met. I think we met at one of the, I mean, here at the chancery, at one of the, the formation events, uh, for DREs, but in addition to being right, a just ordinary DRE director of religious education.

For those of you who don't know the acronym. D R E In addition to being an ordinary DRE hero, you've got kind of a little special asterisk. You work with children who have special needs, helping to prepare them and their families for the sacraments. How did you, how'd you first get started in this work?

[00:02:07] Janet Sobczyk: Well, before I can explain that, I have to back you up to our family background and explain to you my daughter's sacrament story. So, my husband and I have been married 38 years. We have five kids, three daughters and two sons. My youngest is 23 years old and she has Down syndrome. So, when she was in grade school, she was included at Holy Ghost.

They did an awesome job with her. She went half days initially, there, and then half days at the nearby public school, special therapies. And then ultimately, she ended up going full days at Holy ghost. But in second grade, when it was sacrament prep time, it was still half days. And she had a wonderful teacher and a wonderful para that really took care of the sacrament prep for me.

I didn't have to be that involved in it at that point. For me, it was just more the parent role of worrying about the event and the clothing and the party.

[00:03:08] Jim Jansen: The shoes. Yeah. And that's a lot. 

[00:03:10] Janet Sobczyk: So, my daughter's name is Monica. And so, for her at that age, there were. Let's just say some unpredictable behaviors that made me nervous about that event day.

And so, for me, it was kind of stress level about like a wedding. So. 

[00:03:30] Jim Jansen: Yeah. 

[00:03:31] Janet Sobczyk: Because that day she did not want to put on the dress and thank heavens for her sisters who could coax her into it. She did not want to line up. She did not want to stand with the group and take a picture. There were a lot of things that she didn't want to do, but in that Mass, she sat with us.

We were in the row right behind the row of other first communicants And she was able to make the choice of going up in the row in the line right behind her classmates Or maybe taking somebody in the family up with her and in that moment she chose to take her dad So they both walked up there, which was great because then I had the close up photo op. 

[00:04:11] Jim Jansen: Exactly. That's awesome. 

[00:04:12] Janet Sobczyk: So, and and she did it.

It was just one little prompt You Of, you know, eat, and she, she did it. After that, Yeah, she enjoyed time with her brothers and her sisters and you know, we had, we had the party and take the dress off, get into play clothes really quick and those kind of things. But the very next Sunday, I remember this vividly, she went up there and got communion like she had always been doing it and didn't hesitate and has done it.

So, for all of my anxiety in that first initial moment and wondering how this was going to go, I, in that really recognized the grace that comes from just receiving and, and I also remember in that time period. Listening to conversations about, well, cognitively, will she understand enough to receive and perhaps at that grade level?

She didn't. I think she does now, but perhaps then she didn't. But I would argue at this point from all that I've seen over the years, I think she does. It's really not the mind as much as the heart. So, so that's what I learned from that. But then fast forward, I have to finish the story of hers. Fast forward to her confirmation.

And so, by that time, Holy Ghost School had closed, very sad. And so, she was transferred over to St. Bernadette, which was a wonderful fit. And they did a marvelous job with her over there as well. Well, I was worried about confirmation because that's a whole lot more preparation and service hours and retreat and all these things.

And so, I was worried about it. And I talked with our still the Holy Ghost pastor that had known her all these years. And., He said to me, you know, she doesn't have to be confirmed. And in that moment, I thought, yay, I don't have to go through this. We don't have to jump through these hoops. What a relief. And then he continued.

And he said, but if anybody deserves confirmation. It's her. And he was right because she was a good example of always wanting to be there, following along in the missile at singing the songs, just being in the moment every Sunday. And she still is to this day. So, I felt convicted. And I was like, okay, we'll do it.

So yes, it did take a lot of my energy to do all the service hours with her, to help her with, um, the saints research. And she picked on her own, named Lucy. She was very involved in the process, but yes, we had to make accommodations. So, on her confirmation day, her sister was her sponsor, and they were sitting up in the front rows and my husband and I were sitting on the aisle, but like way back and.

So I'm watching her go up, and I couldn't see her face, but I could see the back of her, and it looked like it went okay, I mean, but as she walked back to her seat, her face was glowing, absolutely glowing, and in that moment, I just started sobbing, because I thought, I almost denied her that. 

I almost went for my convenience and the relief of not having to go through all that and and I almost denied her that. So that's foundational, I think, for what I'm doing now. 

[00:08:03] Jim Jansen: Wow. Janet, that's, that is such a beautiful story. I mean, so many things, like I bet, I bet we have a lot of friends in common at Holy Ghost because I'm a member of St.

Bernadette Parish and Holy Ghost is our sister parish. We share, we share a pastor, so I bet we have a lot of friends in common at Holy Ghost now, the Schultes and the Alners and. 

[00:08:22] Janet Sobczyk: Yes. 

[00:08:23] Jim Jansen: Oh yeah. But also, like just that moment. Wow. And I got to see your face Before everybody else heard the crack in your voice as you talk about father, she doesn't have to, but man, if anybody deserves it, I want, I want you to go back.

You talked about, you know, like the head. the head and the heart. And I mean, I think he kind of named, I don't know, the two organs, if you will, that are, uh, you know, a big part of our reception of the sacraments. I think you were, I don't know, trying to restore the primacy of the heart. Talk a little bit about your daughter's heart.

[00:09:03] Janet Sobczyk: I think, I think it just, Is simple. I think her, her experience of time and spirituality is very basic. She lives in the moment. She's not so much concerned about the future or the past. She's just in the moment. And so when she's in church, she's, Fully there and she gets annoyed if there's somebody making noise right beside her and you know Because she wants to hear and she wants to see and she wants to fully participate So yeah, I think I think those are the ways that you can see that she's fully present in those situations. 

[00:09:46] Jim Jansen: I mean, don't take this the wrong way, but that sounds so healthy, right, for those of us.

And I understand, you know, a challenge that she has with Downs. To be fully present in the moment, I mean, that's what most of us struggle with. Why? Because our mind is taking us away and we're, we're not living in the present. We're distracted about what we're going to do after mass, or we're distracted about the difficult conversation we had before mass and here your daughter's fully present in the moment.

[00:10:22] Janet Sobczyk: Yeah. We can learn a lot from that. 

[00:10:23] Jim Jansen: Janet, give us an idea here. Like how long have you been doing this work helping cause you help, right? We should mention, you know, you run the seeds program. Through Madonna. Uh, we can talk more about that later, but you're helping children, their catechists and their parents with special needs.

Get prepared for the sacraments. How long you've been doing it and just give us a rough ballpark of how many, how many you've helped. 

[00:10:49] Janet Sobczyk: It's still in its infancy. Okay. So, I've, I've worked for Madonna for, I believe this is my ninth year and my role there has evolved over time. I started out subbing and I became the media teacher and then I became the religion teacher and then added on campus ministry and through those experiences with the students that I've helped just at Madonna.

So, so these are high school and transition age and young and young adults, the adult program. So, it. It hasn't been the small students, although we, we did have the smaller students in our building until we partnered with the other schools, St. Robert's and St. Pius and Holy Name. So, my direct experience has been with, with the older ones.

So that's been like the last four years that I've been doing the sacrament prep for them. And it, it isn't huge numbers because Madonna's a small building, a small school growing very much growing, but it's, it's not big numbers. But I would say the variety of, of students and young adults that I've worked with over these last four years have.

Taught me so many things and at the end of this last well a year ago Okay, so pretty much a year ago. I felt very strongly in my heart that What you've learned you need to take out and share with others. 

[00:12:16] Jim Jansen: Right? Because you're hoping I mean to to not just like hey if there's someone with special needs bring them here but to be able to equip right the the parents and then the the local catechists and the parishes to be able to Welcome and prepare children with special needs.

[00:12:32] Janet Sobczyk: Absolutely. Yeah, we don't want to be the Oh send everybody to us No, we, we want it to be within the parishes within that community of support and some of the families, it's going to work best in a homeschool situation and they just need some support and guidance and maybe shown adaptive materials, that type of thing, coordination with the parish.

And others, the students are doing well in the school or in the religious ed program. And we definitely don't want to get in the way of any of that because it, it, it takes a village. It takes a lot of people to, to do religious ed. And in the course of the last few months, I've talked with a lot of the directors of religious ed, the DREs, and I'm just hearing about wonderful things that are going on in parishes around the city.

And that is, it is. So, heartening that there's the desire to do it. There's seeing the need to do it. But I also recognize that there are some parishes that don't have someone available to do it. 

[00:13:42] Jim Jansen: Right. Right. 

[00:13:43] Janet Sobczyk: So that's, that's where trying to find the gaps and where The needs are and but ultimately, I see the need for collaboration with those parishes that are doing it really well and maybe partnering with the ones that are struggling a little bit with it.

[00:13:59] Jim Jansen: Yeah. And I mean, there's so many reasons why that obviously, it's a. Way more sustainable if you can equip the local churches rather than have everybody come to you all, but it's a gift for the local churches. I mean, I would imagine I guess I'm jumping the gun here. I wouldn't be surprised if you have some stories to have again.

There's some preparation required of the rest of the students and the catechists. There's no doubt there's, you know, work involved, but yeah, For a community to be able to welcome and embrace a child with special needs and the family, that's so good for the parish community. 

[00:14:37] Janet Sobczyk: Oh, it is. In fact, when Monica was first included at Holy Ghost, at the end of that first year, the sixth-grade teacher came to me very pointedly, sought me out and, and she, Keep in mind, she was teaching on the second floor.

Monica never even stepped foot on the second floor because she was kindergarten, first grade at that point. And so, I thought, when would she have even come across Monica? She didn't really. 

[00:15:04] Jim Jansen: Right. There was no natural mixing. 

[00:15:06] Janet Sobczyk: Right? Not lunchtime, nothing. You know? So, but she came up to me and she said, thank you for bringing Monica here.

She said, It has made a difference in the whole building. 

[00:15:16] Jim Jansen: That's awesome. 

[00:15:17] Janet Sobczyk: Yeah. 

[00:15:18] Jim Jansen: Okay. Janet, break it down a little bit. Like what's actually involved with sacramental prep for a child with special needs. 

[00:15:24] Janet Sobczyk: So, for some of them it's, it works out really, really well to have them with their class in a parochial school setting and with some extra parent para support or an older student that partners really well.

The buddy system works really, really well. Okay. Usually needing some adaptive materials to bring it to their level of reading or, or comprehension, usually more visual, okay, more pictures than print. And, and so that can, that can work beautifully and, and just practice and following what the other students do.

That's really valuable. So, for, for, I would say the vast majority, that's the way to go. There are some that have more challenging needs that Could not tolerate a classroom situation like that long enough to to accomplish what you need to and so then one on one works really well. And when I approach a one-on-one situation, I kind of look at the who, what, when, where, why, and how.

Because there's a lot of facets to it. So, it's like, who is going to be involved in it? Obviously, the parents, they, they are the first resource and the continuing partnership for it. Just to have that deep conversation with them about what, what the students are strengths are, what their interests are, what motivates them, what, what they like, what they dislike, what their challenges are.

[00:16:55] Jim Jansen: Right. Who is this person we're trying to prepare? 

[00:16:58] Janet Sobczyk: Right. And it's kind of a unique opportunity when you think about it, because normally you've got a classroom of students and you don't get to get on the quite that level with each, every one of So to, to really fully Understand somebody and what makes them tick and work with the parents.

It's kind of a, it's almost like a, an intimate partnership because you get to know them so well. And you, you. See the, the successes as they go and it's, it's just, it's a very joyful thing to walk through that with them. So, the, the what, the who, what is, what are we going to use? And, and I think for some catechists, the challenge is what materials are we going to use?

Because what we use for the regular program doesn't work for them. And I've looked into a lot of different programs that are some really wonderful ones out there. There's a lot of good, adapted materials too, but. I have not found one program that works for every student with special needs. So, it's kind of pick and choose and, you know, here's all the resources, pick and choose what works.

And a lot of it, like I said before, is visual and very hands on, less paper and pencil or In some cases, not at all pencil and paper and music and short video clips and, and by that I mean, I don't mean let's turn it on and watch the whole thing and then that's a chance to zone out. No, it's, it's, here's a two to Five or ten minute video and we're going to pause it frequently to point things out and to ask questions and to have a conversation about what we're seeing and that I have found to be very, very effective in keeping them engaged because oftentimes the short attention span can limit.

What's done in a classroom? 

[00:18:48] Jim Jansen: I mean as you're talking it's like, oh, that'd be really good for everybody. It's just like, you know, pause Every five minutes for you know, like hey, did you catch that and let's talk about that? 

[00:18:58] Janet Sobczyk: Absolutely. And when I was teaching religion class for the the whole group Either high school or the transition which is 18 to 21 year olds That's a lot of what I would do I would put it up on the board and it would either be PowerPoint slides that I had created to bring in visuals that could Help them See what I’m talking about or videos that and and they were very engaged every every ability level was engaged there would be one student who.

Could barely speak but he would come up spring up out of his chair and point something out on the screen and say that word and be like yes yes that's what that is and so that's awesome being able to use the visuals I think is enormous for them. And and hands on materials. I think one piece that's really important for First Communion that that shows that basic understanding is Loyola has some really good adaptive materials and one of the pieces that I use that is not in their like boxed set for First Communion, but it's in some of their other materials is it.

It's a sorting activity where they can sort, they're just little black and white pencil drawings of food and items related to the Eucharist. And so, if they can sort those into two appropriate piles, then you know they understand the difference that the Eucharist is not just food. 

[00:20:24] Jim Jansen: Yeah. 

[00:20:24] Janet Sobczyk: But my challenge with that is not everybody has the loyal materials because copyright I can't just be handing that out to everybody.

So, I ended up making my own set and using photographs and Father Shane was my model in a chapel to do that. And so I, I came up with a set, a set of 18 or 20 cards and that's something that I can share with other families and do that as a fun activity. The end. It's very visual. So, things like that adapting materials.

[00:20:53] Jim Jansen: Let's use the word basic understanding and you know, we referenced earlier. It's like, you know, the importance of the heart and not just the head and then not not let that talk a little bit about like, what's the basic understanding you're looking for and maybe Very I don't know, how is that, how is your understanding of the basic understanding different than, than what it might have been at one point?

[00:21:17] Janet Sobczyk: I think, I think when Monica went through it, I, I was doubtful that she had the basic understanding. Not that I even really had a firm idea of what that was because I wasn't an educator at that point. I was a parent. I wasn't thinking that deeply about it. But I think that. The basic understanding for Eucharist is it's not just food, it's, it's special, it's different, it's Jesus, and there's a really good video that shows that something can be two things at once.

Like a piece of, of wood is still a tree, but it's now a table too. So just helping to explain it that way, that we may not be able to see Jesus’s face on this, I, I think that makes it much more, much better. Accessible to them to see it that way when when we work with First Reconciliation, I think that basic understanding is the good choices and not so good choices.

And we've got activities to sort that out. And when you can see that, okay, they do understand that that picture is not a good choice, and this one is a better choice and and that the priest is acting in the place of Jesus to forgive our sins. They get that I think they get that. 

[00:22:40] Jim Jansen: What about confirmation? What's the basic you're you're kind of you're going for there? 

[00:22:44] Janet Sobczyk: It's, it's funny cause I'm working with, uh, uh, two students right now for confirmation and we'll have their sacrament mass in the spring and they're two very different students. And so, one questions everything, and I love that. We have wonderful conversations, and the other one will question nothing but has, like I would say, it's in her heart.

She's, she doesn't doubt any of it. It's in her heart. She has good answers when I ask her questions, but she's not questioning any of it. But I, so I think basically going through Pentecost and showing them that whole event and how that changed the apostles. and that that's what confirmation is for us.

That's the basic understanding. 

[00:23:37] Jim Jansen: I mean, I, Janet, as I listen, this sounds, and maybe this is just, you know, me, maybe like wounds I need to process with the Lord, but it sounds so refreshing to work with students who want the grace of the sacrament, who understand maybe at just barely at the minimal level, but they understand that.

And it just seems so sometimes, right? I mean, not to judge people's hearts and minds, but different from maybe sometimes where, you know, kids, Without a special disability, they can check all the right boxes, but they don't seem to, you know, again, I don't know what's really in their hearts, they don't seem to have much of an interest in the grace itself, but they can check all the right boxes.

I mean, it just feels like this kind of flips on its head. What is. I think oftentimes the experience I've heard again and again from catechists and DREs, teachers, parents who are trying to work with, uh, students who seem to have every advantage in the world and miss this tremendous opportunity that's being presented to them in, in the sacrament.

[00:24:46] Janet Sobczyk: I can identify with that because I remember my confirmation and back then it was in sixth grade. And I remember, I remember saying to one of the teachers, it might have even been there. I had a teacher in fifth or sixth grade that stands out to me as a role model that I've always remembered. And she was a nun.

She was the English teacher. And I remember saying, I don't think I'm ready for confirmation. I'm not feeling it. And I was a student that checked all the boxes, and she said, Oh, no, if you are ready, there's plenty of people that are not ready, but you are ready. And in my, in my head, I was thinking, well, how do you know that?

I mean, but then again, maybe, maybe you do know more than than I realized. And so, okay. And. So I think oftentimes students aren't mature enough to really grasp any of that to start with, but really, I think it's receiving the sacraments and continuing to receive the sacraments that builds that grace to a point where eventually we can recognize it.

And we may go through a phase like I did. I went through, uh, I think a very cold phase in my faith after, I think it was through high school, the beginning of college. I, I just wasn't feeling it. I had gone to a Catholic grade school, but then I went to public for the rest of it. And you just get busy with school and just all those things, getting ready for college.

And faith was just low on the totem pole, but then God sends something as someone else. I mean, first there was that nun in my life that was a role model. And then somebody, he's somebody else that was a role model for me that changed all that. And so, I think that's, that's what happens is. Each of us is on a journey and there's going to be times when we're cold and there's people that will come into our lives that will help lead us on the right track and as parents we tend to think that it has to be us and yes, we are, we are primary and we're, we're very important.

But sometimes when as adults they go a different path than you wanted them to, we place all this blame on ourselves and. not realizing that God has other people that are going to come into that person's life and lead them because it wasn't necessarily, it wasn't necessarily a parent maybe, but somebody else. 

[00:27:20] Jim Jansen: You know, you brought up parents talk a little bit about, right? For, for the folks you're working with, talk about like, how are the parents involved in this process? 

[00:27:28] Janet Sobczyk: You know, that's interesting because there's parents can be so different and they're, you know, What they're dealing with in their lives can be so different and especially parents with, with students with special needs.

It can, it can be very different and very challenging. And so, some, some of them have, I think, been in need of more. Support for their student to get through all the stages without as much input from them Then and then there's others that are more than happy to spend the extra time and all of that, but regardless There's still the open communication of I I always get in touch with them If they weren't present for our sacrament session and let them know exactly what we covered if there was a video I attached the link so if they want to see it or they want to see it again with their with their student they can so it's as much or as little involvement on on their part is as they are able to do and understanding every situation is different, but I think just encouraging that engagement and.

I use a take home folder, so there's things that I tuck in that they can show and share with their family, even though it's not necessarily paper and pencil format for a lot of it, it's still little things that they can share with them. 

[00:28:48] Jim Jansen: I mean, I'd imagine there's a lot of perseverance, right, for parents who have, again, you talked about, right, in your own life, you're like, as Monica's approaching confirmation, you're like, oh man, this is gonna be a lot of work.

And the parents who have been willing to put in that extra work. Who've, you know, sought out those extra support systems that speaks to a perseverance to try and ensure that their Children are taught the faith and can receive the sacrament. I mean, do you see maybe I'm just projecting in a, you know, in a positive way.

Is there, is there a higher degree of dedication of parents who have children with special needs in this? Am I just, is that just conjecture, or is there, do you think that's a pattern? 

[00:29:31] Janet Sobczyk: I think it may be a pattern. There, I don't have the statistic in front of me, but...

[00:29:37] Jim Jansen: I didn't know how you'd measure that, but I'm struck by how often you talked about, like, sure, if we need to, we can do a one on one, but the ideal is this very communal experience, adapted, but a communal experience of a sacramental prep.

Janet, I want to give you a chance just to talk, like, what does it do for the kids? You know, I think you've seen God's grace at work in their, in their lives, as you see the, the effects of the sacraments. I just, you know, I want to give you a chance to share some stories. 

[00:30:09] Janet Sobczyk: There's a picture in our pamphlet, and I'll just show you, I know that the listeners can't see it, but just so you know what I'm talking about.

So, this, the story of this young lady, she was. One of the first ones that I worked with and in the adult program. She was 25 I think at the time, and I didn't know her to begin with so again getting a lot of information from her mom and Her mom said think preschool understanding. So just barely writing the name and You know, and so I really had to bring it to that, to that level.

And again, I, I kind of remembered back to my daughter and thinking, okay, how are the behaviors going to be on that day? And, and she did beautifully. And if, and that smile. 

[00:30:52] Jim Jansen: Yeah. She has a huge, huge smile. 

[00:30:54] Janet Sobczyk: Yeah. So that, that one speaks volumes to me that someone who had, I think even a lower comprehension than my daughter did.

It resonated with her, and I continue to see her when she receives communion and it's, it's just, that's, that's one of my favorites, but I'll share another one that really was the start of the, the seeds ministry. So, a year ago I was sitting in the chapel, and I was watching a student that it was his second year at Madonna, and he has multiple challenges.

And his first year there, he was. He did not want to be in the chapel. He would do things to get taken out of the chapel and, and, and, and you knew it. 

[00:31:49] Jim Jansen: Yeah. 

[00:31:50] Janet Sobczyk: Well, so this was the second year, beginning of the second year. I was sitting in the back of the chapel, and I was watching him, and something was different.

He was focused on the priest. And I hadn't really seen that level of engagement before because he's highly distractible. And so, I thought something is different. And there was even a day that he had a bloody nose, and we were trying to get him out of the chapel to deal with it and he would not leave. He was distracted.

And I think he, I think he's about 14, just to give you an idea. So anyway, I just felt in that moment of sitting there and watching him that he needs the sacraments. And I have to admit, I wrestled with that thought for a week because I was not his teacher. I didn't, I knew that. Some of the challenges I didn't know all of them at that point, but I knew that I really had to think through How was this gonna work?

And So a week later, I said, okay Lord, I will reach out to the family And so I sent an email it happened to be the day before parent teacher conferences And so I was at the building and not involved in the conference at all, but I was just working And someone came to the door and said, Oh, would you come over to this conference?

And it was the family of that student. And so I, um, I introduced myself and the mom burst into tears. Absolutely. Just like three minutes of sobbing and we couldn't understand what she was saying. And, um, She had gotten my email and hadn't responded yet, but she was so grateful that somebody was willing to work with her son because she had been told he would never be able to receive the sacraments.

And I don't know by whom, and I don't know what age, because I can, I can picture when Monica was little, somebody saying, Oh, no, this isn't going to work. I can totally picture that. I know other people that were told that. 

[00:33:50] Jim Jansen: Sure. Yeah. 

[00:33:50] Janet Sobczyk: So, She said it had always been a heartache for her that they would go to mass with her other kids having gone through all the sacraments.

And here's the one that that couldn't. And so, so we discussed it and I came up with the plan. And the first time we got together, it was, it was just the two of us. In the library at Madonna, and he was there two minutes before he got up and walked away. And I thought, okay, well, we probably need somebody in here that he knows better than me.

So maybe we'll either do it in the classroom in the back of the corner. You know, there again, the where, you know, the who, and, and maybe have the pair of the, and so I, in my email to the parents about how the session, when I'm bringing up these So she emails back and she said, we had a talk with him because his, his understanding level was way higher than you would expect from the, from the presentation of what you would see.

And I suspected that, but I didn't know him well. 

So she said, we talked it out with him and he wants it and he's, he'll do it. So the next time he came and I sat down with him and we had a five minute session and I Do you want to be able to go up and receive communion when we go to mass in the chapel?

And he gave me a thumbs up and I said, okay, then we will be meeting once a week here in the library and we're going to be, you know, these are some of the things that we're going to be doing. Are you agreeable? And thumbs up. And I said, okay. And I knew from that point on, it's going to be okay. So, we were able to work it all out.

I know his family is, is very appreciative and, and in fact, her quote is in that flyer because yeah, she was very touched. So. 

[00:35:44] Jim Jansen: Well, and you could see, I mean, what strikes me about that story is you could see his desire and you're like, okay. Yes. Not sure how we're going to, how we're going to bring this to fruition, but there's a desire there and you could see it.

Yeah. And obviously deeply in his, in his mother's heart as well. 

[00:36:03] Janet Sobczyk: Absolutely. 

[00:36:04] Jim Jansen: Janet, what does success look like? Like, what are you most proud of? 

[00:36:07] Janet Sobczyk: I think, and again, it goes back to the chapel, I was sitting there this, this fall, and I was remembering back to the students that, that I've worked with. That hadn't been receiving beforehand and what it looked like when most of the students would come to mass and they go up to communion, but they'd receive a blessing because so few of them actually received communion.

And I remember thinking back then, why are they not receiving and granted our population is very mixed faiths. And so probably only about half of them are Catholic, but. 

[00:36:47] Jim Jansen: Sure. 

[00:36:47] Janet Sobczyk: But even looking at it that way, I was confused. So, just to be able to sit back and, and feel this sense of, wow, look at how many now are receiving the Eucharist.

Who are encountering Christ in that way didn't used to that, that to be a success. That's what I'm most proud of. 

[00:37:10] Jim Jansen: Gosh, that's, that's neat. How do people react? Yeah. Again, the seeds ministry, you said it's not very old. It's a part of the, of the larger kind of ministry. The whole kind of communal service package that, that Madonna offers.

How did, how do people react to seeds? 

[00:37:27] Janet Sobczyk: Well, so far it's been a lot of word of mouth. We haven't done advertising. We haven't done bulletin announcements. It's, it's been growing very gradually, which is appropriate since it's so much one on one. It's been interesting. So, the parents are, are generally very excited and they, they see the need and they want this.

And then on the event day, they're excited and you see tears of joy and they're taking all these, all these family photos of the moment. And it's, it's, yeah, it's beautiful. So. From the families, it's, it's wonderful reactions. And within the, the school, the secondary and the transition students, it's kind of been interesting because seeing a classmate go through the sacraments and have a special mass where they're celebrated and they're doing something that the aren't doing for one reason or another.

It's inspired some of them to want to say, I want, and one of the students wasn't Catholic. And he said, I want to become Catholic. And I'm like, well, I have to talk to your parents about that. And sure enough, grandma's Catholic. And so, the parents said, yeah, that's fine. So, he, Went through the prep, he became Catholic and at his sacrament mass, his younger sister said, well, I want to be Catholic too.

So, then we worked with the two sisters and yeah, so it's been nothing but positive with the families. And like I say, the classmates too, to, for them to have that support and to, to enjoy that celebration with them. When I've reached out to DREs around the city, I, I have heard of some just wonderful things that they're, that they're doing out there.

I'm very impressed. There's parishes that are, are just doing some amazing things. There's even one parish. that does sacrament prep in the summer, which had been a question that I had because I have done sacrament prep in the summer for a family that it did not work with their school schedules. And so, I see the need for that. And.

[00:39:39] Jim Jansen: Right. It just creates a space and an opportunity. The win, I guess, is like, is a better fit. 

[00:39:45] Janet Sobczyk: So, so seeing how there are places that are thinking outside the box and they're doing different things and, um, That's very encouraging. And, and when I talk with them and I tell them about seeds, they're very excited and Yay, we can use any support.

One of the gals that I talked with recently, she said, you know what? So and so just told me about that this week and she was so excited. She said, we're just so happy you're doing this. So, Having that enthusiasm from people who are working in this field, that means a lot. 

[00:40:22] Jim Jansen: I would imagine there would be, again, for the catechist theories, we talked a lot about the parents, but for those who are trying to assist the parents, there's got to be a significant, I mean, I'm projecting here, but a sense of inadequacy, like, Oh gosh, I'd love to help.

But we have so many other students and we're trying to like, we're trying to get their hearts in line. And, and then. Again, not that any of it's rocket science, but the accommodations necessary for a child with special needs. Maybe we don't know how to do that. Maybe just you don't have the personnel to do that.

I would imagine it's just a great relief to have someone come alongside and help them figure out how to, how to do that. 

[00:41:02] Janet Sobczyk: I think that's true. That's, that's the feeling that I'm getting from them. And then, and then also there's the priests. And so, we have. Quite a few priests, some of them retired, some of them active, that come to Madonna for our Friday Masses in the chapel.

And across the board, they have been so excited and so supportive and, you know, whatever you need, we'll, we'll support you on this. Yeah, 

[00:41:27] Jim Jansen: that's great. Well, I imagine, right, their father's heart, here's a child that I, you know, I mean, they're another layer removed, where It's like, gosh, I'm, I'm not the DRE.

I'm not the catechist. I'm not the parents, but I want, I want this for the child. And there's some things that they need that I can't personally or directly provide. Yeah. I imagine it's a really kind of triumphal moment for them too. These kids are able to receive. 

[00:41:52] Janet Sobczyk: Oh, absolutely. Oh, absolutely. 

[00:41:54] Jim Jansen: I mean, you've got some pictures here, right?

I encourage people to, we'll give the website out later, but for people to check out seats, cause there's some really nice pictures here, you know, of some of the priests with some of the students as they receive their, their sacraments. Janet, if we can pivot a little bit, I want to give you a chance to talk about what this has done for your faith.

Like, what has it taught you? 

[00:42:17] Janet Sobczyk: I think it's, it's taught me just the joy of sharing faith. And when, when I was growing up, it was definitely the don't talk about religion, don't talk about politics. I grew up in a Catholic family and I, but I still don't remember really talking about God much in those years at all.

Yeah. So, I, I guess I grew up thinking, well, faith is your personal thing, your, your prayer life is your personal thing. And I don't think I got into a Bible study until I was married. So, there were a lot of years where I didn't think it was like even appropriate to share. So, I'm, I'm well past that now.

Yeah. 

[00:42:59] Jim Jansen: That's awesome. I love that. What about, again, for those of us who are not working, right, with, uh, with, uh, those with special needs, I think there's a lot of universal lessons. I want to give you a chance to just kind of name some of those. 

[00:43:15] Janet Sobczyk: I think really what it comes down to is, is discipling, and that applies to any ministry and, and even in almost any job because we've got coworkers that we work with.

Well, and I think about it in terms of being a teacher and my experiences of being in front of a classroom versus the one-on-one sacrament prep that I'm doing now. And in a classroom, maybe I felt really good about how the lesson plan went, and we stayed within time, and the behaviors were managed, and then I could feel good about that.

[00:43:48] Jim Jansen: Right. 

[00:43:48] Janet Sobczyk: But. With what I'm doing now, it's, I feel great and, and share the stories about the conversations and the questions and the connections I mentioned to the girls with confirmation this year, and one of them that asks questions all the time, I write down a list of her questions because we can't possibly answer every single one of them in our short sessions.

But then she knows that they're valid and that I take them seriously and that as we do answer them, we check them off. So, she feels satisfied and if, if we need to circle back, we will. And she has, she has told me, she said, I, I love our time together because you answer my questions. And that's what Jesus did.

He walked among the people. They asked him questions. He answered sometimes with cryptic stories, but he answered, and he met their needs, and he had compassion for them and they, they felt accepted by him. And that's what this is about. 

[00:44:51] Jim Jansen: Well, and it's just a very different metric for success. You know, I got through all the stuff I wanted to share.

I helped someone here, right? Well, I heard someone's questions and then I helped them connect. Like, I mean, it's actually more demanding. It's like, did I get through my list or like, did I help this person begin to understand? with the questions that they have. That's actually harder. I mean, on most good days, I can get through my list, but helping someone understand and meeting them really where they're at, that's a whole nother level of teaching.

[00:45:31] Janet Sobczyk: And, and to do that, the few years that I've taught religion, I really have learned that I can't do it without really listening to the inspirations of the Holy Spirit. Because, because I, I don't always know what they needed that moment, but based on a question that they had, then an idea will come to me.

Maybe first thing when I wake up when I'm not even thinking yet, but here's this idea and it's brilliant. It's not mine. So just being in tune to the spirit through all of it. So that so that you can create. Opportunities and moments and materials or whatever it happens to be that that meets that need and Yeah, that's you're right.

It's more challenging and it's and it takes more prayer and more Silence, which because if we're gonna listen to inspirations, we need more quiet and that's a hard thing to get Yeah in our society now. 

[00:46:36] Jim Jansen: I mean again, I'm you know, I'm kind of a nerdy I love the big picture stuff But we'd have to be honest the way we've been talking about our faith the way we've been trying to teach Hasn't been connecting and it's not because everybody has special needs.

It's because those who write are part of the population where they don't have a special need. The way we've been teaching hasn't been connecting, you know, the kind of assembly line mode of preparation. I mean, just statistically they're not, they're not engaging. Our voices are lost in the, you know, in the sea of all the other things coming at them, media, social media, etc., etc.

And if we're going to figure out how to do this, so the uncharted territory that you've been in, oh man, how do I help this individual? Because every time it's a new, right? It's a new adventure because each individual has their own challenges. You're like, Oh, I have to rely on the Holy Spirit. So, well, that's exactly what we have to do if we're going to figure out again, how to proclaim Christ and teach people what it means to follow Jesus.

Right. Who don't have special needs because we just have to acknowledge what we've been doing to a large degree hasn't been working. 

[00:47:49] Janet Sobczyk: One of the things that that we've done in order to help students appreciate silence because their lives are full of noise is. We take them in for meditation time, guided meditations in the chapel.

And so, it's a scripture reading and some guided questions and music that accompanies and makes sense. And it's soft. It could be, you know, old, soft instrumental hymns. It could be a more modern, quiet worship song. You know, it's a variety of choices that go with it. And then quiet after that. And they can stay and just enjoy the quiet for a longer time if they want to.

So, one story, there was a new student and he's the one that ended up asking to become Catholic and became Catholic. But his first. Day that we were going to go in and do the meditations, he expressed trepidation because he said, I, I can't sit still. How am I going to, how am I going to just be in the chapel in silence?

And I said, just give it a try. So, we did it. And I was holding the door open as the, as the students were filing out afterwards. And he came up really close to me, practically eyeball to eyeball. Very intently said, thank you. So, he in in one session of Meditative quiet got it. 

[00:49:14] Jim Jansen: And I hear your is this a chapel where the blessed sacrament is present or it's just quiet. 

[00:49:18] Janet Sobczyk: It is. It is. 

[00:49:19] Jim Jansen: You're fostering an encounter You're like before we can talk about... 

[00:49:23] Janet Sobczyk: Exactly. 

[00:49:24] Jim Jansen: ...all the things that Jesus says and does and did and promises I want you to... let's just, let's go meet him.

[00:49:31] Janet Sobczyk: Yeah. And that's the beauty of being able to have a beautiful chapel within the building that I'm working in and being able to bring them to that. And yeah. 

[00:49:40] Jim Jansen: Janet, what else do you notice? About the methods that you use that you think might be universal for, you know, for those who are listening, who have some role in sharing their faith or maybe as a catechist, children, adults, whatever. 

[00:49:55] Janet Sobczyk: I think what's what's universal is that we inside we have the desire to help and we may let our heads get in the way and talk us out of helping because we don't really know how and we're afraid to make a mistake and It's a little daunting sometimes, but I find that people that kind of let down their guard and let their hearts lead them, then they've, they're able to find more the joy of, of helping.

And I see that, I see that in the staff at Madonna. And I don't know how much you know about Madonna, but it's, it's more than just a school and it was, it was started in 1960, my sister, Evangeline, uh, Mary Evangeline Randolph, and it's grown over time. So then, then a transition program was added to it. So that's 18- to 21-year-olds and then day services for adults that needed someplace to go and maybe learn job skills.

And so, there's. Employment opportunities through that. And then there's all these partnerships that that we have with like Monroe Meyer and College of Saint Mary's and our partner schools and all of that. So, over all these 65 years, it's grown into something much, much bigger than a school that precipitated a need for a new building.

And so, we did just a Really over Christmas break move into a new building and. 

[00:51:27] Jim Jansen: Oh, that's great. 

[00:51:28] Janet Sobczyk: Yeah. So, we're now located on the intersection of 72nd and pine street. It's the the corner of the college of Saint Mary’s campus. Yeah, and it's a brand-new building designed Entirely for our programs and then we changed the name because it's more than a school.

So, it's now called Madonna ability alliance. 

[00:51:48] Jim Jansen: Nice. Janet. What would be your your call to action? For people listening, and then how can they connect if they want to learn more about your work? 

[00:51:57] Janet Sobczyk: I think the first thing is, when you're in church, is there someone that you notice that's there week after week with their family, but they don't receive communion?

And, and maybe just initiate a conversation. Is that something that they would like? And, and if so, maybe encourage them to contact their RCIA program within their parish, because some of them are able to accommodate special needs within their RCIA programs, which is awesome. And if that's not possible, then definitely SEEDS would be the other resource to approach.

The other thing I would say would be to if you're feeling this tug on your heart at all from any of this message, then volunteer volunteer at your parish and their religious ed program or call seeds and volunteer with us. There's. There's just such a need and and you don't have to be an expert.

It's just, it's a heart thing. So, if if you're feeling that and I would encourage Especially retired people or retired teachers. That would be awesome. That's a great way to Spend some of your time in a way. That's very fruitful. So those two things and then pray Because I feel like our families are Are so busy that we're being taken away from the quiet.

We're being taken away from matters of faith because everything on the schedule takes precedence. So, I think we just really need to pray for the families and pray for everybody. In religious ad that the efforts that they're that they're making they're just absolutely heroic as far as I’m concerned there's just wonderful people that are that are out there and need our support and prayers so. but if you if you want to. 

[00:53:54] Jim Jansen: Yeah, how do people find out about seeds and how can they connect with you? 

[00:53:57] Janet Sobczyk: So, if they want to learn more about Madonna in general, they can go to madonnaalliance.org and there there is a new website there, so it doesn't yet have my seeds information on it because it's brand new. That we'll get there. And, but the other thing that they can do is they could call the building. And actually, there's a, if you want, if wanna inquire about the SEEDS program, there's a direct line to me.

Yeah. And that's (531) 325-1384. 

[00:54:27] Jim Jansen: Say it one more time. 

[00:54:28] Janet Sobczyk: (531) 325-1384. If they prefer email, our old email addresses, the Madonnaschool.Org will route into the new, but the new one is, well, this, this is tough to give you mine because my last name is hard to spell, but, um, I'll give it to you. It's J S O B as in boy. C as in cat. Z as in zebra. Y as in yak. K as in kite. 

[00:54:59] Jim Jansen: Of course. 

[00:55:00] Janet Sobczyk: Of course. At madonnaalliance.org. 

[00:55:03] Jim Jansen: That's funny. We will link to that everybody because I know you all were like, you're like, Oh, I'm gonna write that down. Alphabet soup. Yeah. Janet Sobczyk. That's really funny. It's like, it's like somebody was typing and then they, I have some friends with a similar last name and they're like, at a certain point you just kind of mash the keyboard.

Yeah. So. Yeah. Yeah. We'll link to that. We'll make it easy for you folks. Janet, thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for what you do. Thank you for sharing your story. Like this is really, I mean, you're, you're like, well, it's one on one teaching and it's a reliance on the Holy Spirit and start with an encounter with Jesus.

And, you know, follow your heart when, when, when you feel that tug to, to help go for it. Don't, don't let your own insecurities get in the way of, of the Lord's invitation. Holy cow, that's right at the heart, I think of, of what the Lord is doing in the new evangelization. So, Thank you. I think you're obviously in a unique space, but I think what you do has, can be an inspiration and and a guide for all of us.

So, thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. All right, everybody. Somebody came to mind as you were listening to this. Somebody who needs the to hear the story here. So, when you get to your destination, when you're in a safe place, go ahead and share this out with a friend and we'll have all the all the information on the show notes so you can link.

Directly to, uh, the Madonna Alliance and connect with Janet. Thanks, everybody. Thanks for listening to the EquipCast. We hope this episode has inspired you to live your faith and equip you to be fruitful in your mission. Stay connected with us by going to equip.archomaha.org. God bless and see you next time.