[00:00:00] Jim Jansen: Hey everybody. Welcome to the EquipCast. So today I sit down with Archbishop George Lucas here in the Archdiocese of Omaha, and we talk about Acts chapter eight, the story of Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch. Uh, one of my favorite stories, great lessons for us today as we think about how the Holy Spirit invites us.
to share our faith and to participate in helping other people take their, their next step closer to Jesus. You're going to love the conversation today. Take a listen. 

Hey everybody, welcome to the EquipCast, a weekly podcast for the archdiocese of Omaha. I'm your host, Jim Jansen. Now let's dive into some encouragement and inspiration to equip you to live your faith and to be fruitful in your mission. Let's go.

Archbishop Lucas, welcome back to the EquipCast. 

[00:00:53] Archbishop Lucas: Thank you, Jim. It's great to be with you. 

[00:00:55] Jim Jansen: All right, so we get to talk a little bit about Easter. It's really one of my… And, and the story really of Philip and the eunuch, uh, it's one of my favorite stories. Of course, you've been on the equip cast before you've had the opportunity to introduce yourself.
So, I'm not going to ask you to, to share your testimony again, but I do want to ask, can you share, uh, maybe, uh, just a little bit of your own experience learning to share your faith? 

[00:01:22] Archbishop Lucas: Sure. So, I had years of formation in the seminary, which was a kind of preparation for, uh, you Uh, ordained ministry, but part of that is, is sharing my faith, the faith, you know, the, the faith of Jesus as we experienced it in the church.
There's that kind of formal kind of teaching and sharing in the ministry at the same time, you know, our experience in the church is that all ministry is really personal. So, it's not done by machine or only by book, but people share it, give witness to it. I was a high school teacher for nine years. I just, there've been, you know, multiple opportunities and as a priest and as a bishop over 49 years or so to share the faith.
So, I'm, I'm glad to do it. And, and I think one of the unexpected pleasures of, of that along the way was what, when I was asked to teach high school, it was something I was. Dreading. I, I dreaded that being asked to do it and kept my head down for a few years and dodged it, but eventually the archbishop asked me to do it and, and so I thought, well, I, I should try.
I, I didn't know if I'd be any good at it. I didn't know if I would like it, but as I look back there, there were some of the best years in my life. It was challenging to religion and history, both teaching religion, theology, it's usually called now, but that was a harder, harder one, partly because it involves the personal witness.
And then, you know, you have a classroom full of high schoolers. It also involves people that aren't necessarily interested is right off the bat on what you have to say. But there were some, I still have some beautiful memories of a breakthrough moments or. Times when, you know, the light bulb went on the light in the heart went on or something, you know, you can just tell, but then there's, there are informal ways to, I can just, I can share something that happened recently.
I was on my way back from retreating California, and I was in the airport in Las Vegas, changing planes. The airport there, you can see the Las Vegas strip from the airport. And then the airport is, of course, is full of slot machines and, uh, and other gambling apparatus. And, and I, it never fails. You know, that when I wear my clerical collar, when I'm traveling and inevitably somebody will come up to me and say, did you bring the collection father and, uh, So I, I kind of cringe whenever anybody walks in my direction, but so I was, I'd gotten a cup of coffee.
I was just kind of standing around the mortal, a lot of seats available. So, a young guy comes up to me and just, uh, asked if I ever read anything of Chesterton. I said, well, yes, not recently, but you know, I have over time. And he said, well, he, he was. Reading Chesterton, really enjoying it and, you know, kind of getting into philosophy and just chatted about that.
Then his wife walks out. So, he said, this is my wife. So, we're there on their way to Louisiana for his new wife to meet his grandmother. So, she wasn't able to come to their wedding. It was a few months ago. And so, they're going to see her. So anyway, I wish them well and off they went. So then, um, They called their flight.
They were, I could see him in line, you know, to get out of that. Then he scurries back over to me and, and he said, um, I'm thinking of becoming a Catholic. I'm a Presbyterian, but I think I might want to be a Catholic. Do you know a book I could read about the Eucharist? And that's something really simple. I want something kind of philosophical.
So anyway, that was, Totally spontaneous on his part. And then I'm kind of going through my mental card file, you know, thinking about what book of Eric read. So I came up with a couple of, of suggestions for him, but there was an example of just sort of standing there with a, with a cup of coffee, but somebody saw me and just, you know, they, he was moved by the Holy spirit, you know, to, to ask a question, I was happy to be able to, to engage him.
So it was, I think, helpful to him at the moment when, when he was looking for it, wasn't so much witnessing by faith other than My collar is a witness and then being disposed to talk to a fair amount happened in that short conversation. I don't imagine I'll ever see him again. I've been praying for him.

[00:05:14] Jim Jansen: Yeah, that's a productive trip, but what's that? What's that line? You know what happens in Las Vegas stays in Las Vegas and like, hopefully it doesn't. Hopefully it keeps going. 

[00:05:23] Archbishop Lucas: I think it was going to Louisiana and then coming back to California with him. I think he's somebody who's on a spiritual journey and looking, you know, I don't want to say smart enough, like you have to be really smart, but, but intellectually engaged, you know, so the intellectual aspect of the faith is something that he's entering into, kind of engaged with.
Yeah. But also, kind of beginning a new vocation in marriage and, you know, a lot of things going on. Yeah, that's great. I found out at a pretty quick conversation. And then it was one of the occasions when, uh, nobody did ask me about the, whether I brought the collection. So, I think he, he was occupying me with that person who I'm sure was there in the airport somewhere, walked by and they just weren't able to get a chance to do that.

[00:06:05] Jim Jansen: Gosh, that's great. I love that story because I mean, it's like, you know, I don't know how long it took for all of that to transpire, but it's. you were prepared for it. There was just enough time to offer what he needed for his next step, you know, in the time that you had in the conversation. And, and you're like, okay, like I'm a Catholic priest.
I've been a bishop for a while. I can answer this. I can give you a book recommendation on the Eucharist. Like that's, that's fantastic. I love it. It's a great setup, too, in some ways, because I want to, I want to dive in together to one of my favorite stories. You know, the church, uh, directs our attention to Acts of the Apostles, uh, for the Easter, Easter season.
Uh, and we kind of run, run through it for a number of weeks as we get close to Pentecost. And then it's about mid-April, uh, it's the reading for the third week, uh, we get this story of Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch. I want us just to stay here because I think there's, this, this story is going to teach us a lot.
To, to get us started, Archbishop, would you just kind of read that story for us? And then we'll, we'll dive in a little bit. 

[00:07:10] Archbishop Lucas: Sure. As you mentioned, this is from the Acts of the Apostles. The angel of the Lord spoke to Philip. Get up and head south on the road that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza, the desert route.
So, he got up and set out. Now there was an Ethiopian eunuch, official of the Kandis, that is, the queen of the Ethiopians. In charge of her entire treasury, who had come to Jerusalem to worship and was returning home. Seated in his chariot, he was reading the prophet Isaiah. Spirit said to Philip, go and join up with that chariot.
Philip ran up and heard him reading Isaiah, the prophet, and said, Do you understand what you are reading? He replied, How can I, unless someone instructs me? So, he invited Philip to get in and sit with him. This was the scripture passage he was reading. Like a sheep he was led to the slaughter, and as a lamb before its shearer is silent, so he opened not his mouth.
In his humiliation, justice was denied him. Who will tell of his posterity, for his life has been taken from the earth? Then the eunuch said to Philip in reply, I beg you, about whom is the prophet saying this? About himself or about someone else? Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning with this scripture passage, he proclaimed Jesus to him.
As they traveled along the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, Look, there is water. What is to prevent me from being baptized? Then he ordered the chariot to stop, and Philip and the eunuch both went down into the water, and he baptized him. When they came out of the water, the spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away, and the eunuch saw him no more, but continued on his way rejoicing.
Philip came to Azotus. And what about proclaiming the good news to all the towns until he reached Caesarea, the word of the Lord. 

[00:09:13] Jim Jansen: Thanks be to God. So, there's a lot here, a lot of really great stuff. Just to get us started, Patricia, what should we notice about, uh, the eunuch? As kind of the, the background to this story. 

[00:09:29] Archbishop Lucas: He was reading the scripture.
So, he has some ability to read first of all, and some familiarity with the fact that the scriptures are something inspired, presumably he was, he had gone up to Jerusalem to worship. So, he was a man of some faith already, but you know, in that particular spot, I would think what have an unusual site, somebody from Ethiopia, a eunuch, certainly an unusual Person to bump into anywhere.
You wouldn't say, well, yeah, of course there was an Ethiopian eunuch. This was a particular circumstance. 

[00:10:03] Jim Jansen: Very unexpected. I mean, you've got this African man who is reading the Jewish scriptures. You know, he's reading the prophet Isaiah returning from pilgrimage. I didn't know this off the top of my head, but he's a thousand miles away from home.
Like this is quite a trip. Almost equivalent of kind of like the wise men's journey to go see Jesus as an infant. Like this guy is really, it's very unexpected and he's there reading, presumably in a, you know, in a second language for him, reading the prophet Isaiah in a second language. Like there's a lot of interest in this guy.
He's exerted a lot of effort. 

[00:10:42] Archbishop Lucas: But as a matter of fact, at that particular moment, the only. Opportunity for him to encounter one of the apostles would be by being a thousand miles away from home. Yeah, you come there for another purpose, not to encounter an apostle. But, but in that little part of the world at that moment, this was an encounter that could actually happen.

[00:11:02] Jim Jansen: I'm also thinking here, so I, you know, before we turn on the mics, I Talked about how I had, uh, had a chance to share some of this with my, my older children. Um, and the question came up again, dad, what's a eunuch again? And, uh, you know, like I think the equip cast were mostly in the PG space, but basically, it's, it's someone who is, you know, been castrated part of his role is he's, you know, he's serving the queen.
And that was kind of part of the ancient world's assurance that, uh, the queen would be around this gentleman. So, he's got that, but he's also like a high ranking official. He, I mean, it would be the equivalent of like the, you know, the secretary of the treasury for this entire country. 

[00:11:45] Archbishop Lucas: Yeah. So, he's not just somebody wandering around aimlessly, you know, he's got an important role.
He's, as you say, been sort of prepared for his service to the queen and to the members of her court so that he can, can be trusted in some particular ways. He's trusted also with the money. So, he's a trusted person.

[00:12:04] Jim Jansen: And presumably has, you know, he, he has a driver here. He doesn't appear to be driving his own chariot.
There's some wealth. I mean, it's almost like, you know, uh, a high-ranking government official from another country rolls up in his limousine. And then we have, here we have Phillip. You know, who's in the middle of ministry in Samaria, and the Lord's like, Hey, I want you to go down to the desert road, and I want you to go up and talk to that guy.
Archbishop, what should we notice about Philip? Right, first glance, he's not necessarily a likely candidate to evangelize the eunuch. Yeah, they didn't grow up in the same neighborhood. Uh, what do we need to know about Philip here? 

[00:12:43] Archbishop Lucas: Well, he was attentive to the prompting of the angel of the Lord. It was so that the spirit was at work clearly in this, you know, sort of tapping him on the shoulder spiritually.

[00:12:53] Jim Jansen: Yeah, prayerfulness or listening. There's something in him that he recognizes it. 

[00:12:57] Archbishop Lucas: And then open to, to this encounter with somebody very different from, from himself. And I don't know what he doesn't tell us, you know, what his thought was when he saw the Ethiopian eunuch, I guess we don't need to know, you know, he, he was prompted by the spirit to just think, well, here's an opportunity.
You know, he was filled with the spirit and, and commissioned, uh, in the church to not only proclaim the gospel, but as deacons or at the beginning and, and still commissioned to kind of be on the lookout for people that weren't right at the center of, of things, you know, who needed something or who were in a space maybe where the gospel light wasn't shining, but they weren't experiencing, you know, the, the mercy of Jesus personally at that.

[00:13:38] Jim Jansen: Yeah, I love how you, how you said that, like, whatever he saw, it didn't seem to matter. It didn't seem to be an obstacle, right? Because, I mean, he would have, he would have seen a man who, you know, different race, different culture, different background, probably, I mean, we don't know anything about Philip's wealth, but probably, you know, this guy, this, the eunuch is at the top of the kind of socioeconomic background, just with his, his role serving the queen.
Probably Philip isn't there. And whatever he saw, there were clearly differences. It didn't seem to distract him at all. 

[00:14:15] Archbishop Lucas: I mean, not in this account, you know, scripture compresses things. So maybe, right, maybe he comes up to the chair and sees it in there. It's like, oh, no. And he turns around and starts to walk away.
And, and, yeah, maybe thinks better of it. Praise about it a little or something, you know, we don't eventually say, but, but, yeah, yeah. But he eventually says, yes. I mean, that's the point is that he didn't. Just turn around and go away. But really did see this. So, so I'm again, just sort of a basic human level as a person, as a brother in the Lord and saw this encounter as an opportunity to share what he had experienced himself of the, of the Lord's life and love with, with someone else.

[00:14:53] Jim Jansen: Yeah. I love the, the approach to like Philip is, It's very gentle. I mean, you know, I don't know, by the time you get, you find yourself, you know, all the way down from Samaria and then you're, you're in the desert and then, you know, the Lord is saying, go, go talk to that chariot, but he still approaches him with, with his reverence.
He's like, Oh, do you understand what you're reading? And it's this, it's just very respectful. And again, it's just, just the way, the way I see it, there's a gentleness and respect, uh, in the way Philip is approaching. And he finds that, that curiosity, you know, that That seems, seems to be stirring up and in the Ethiopian. 

[00:15:33] Archbishop Lucas: Yeah, I wonder if he saw him first or if he heard him, you know, he was reading out loud as people usually did.
And so, Philip would have recognized the words, you know, the passage from, from Isaiah, then. Maybe looked in or turned around or whatever. I get, we don't know, but the spirit was guiding this encounter clearly and was stirring something in the heart of the, of the eunuch. He, he was wondering about what he was reading.
He wasn't just reading it, but you know, if this is about somebody who, who could this be. Along came a person who could answer that. 

[00:16:05] Jim Jansen: Yeah. I mean, there's, there's like three or four lightning strikes by the time we get there, you know, that, I mean, that the eunuch is there at all, that Philip is there at the same time, that he's reading the passage.
And you mentioned it, there's like, you know, the kind of like the hidden, hidden protagonists in the story is the Holy Spirit. Where do we see, you already mentioned a couple of things, just what's going on in this eunuch's heart and Philip's presence there. Where else do we see the Holy Spirit at work in this story?

[00:16:33] Archbishop Lucas: Well, again, in the openness, kind of the inquiry of the eunuch, but then Philip finding the words to say. So, he presumably wasn't studying up. On this, you know, preparing for this encounter is if one might want going into a classroom or into the something, but was able to make a response, you know, to the inquiry and then was ready to help the unit take the next step, which was once he understood who this was.
Beautiful passage was describing to them want, want to be part of it. 

[00:17:09] Jim Jansen: Yeah. And clearly in a way that like the unit kind of drives the next step. I love this. Like, you know, the story begins just like they're on the, they're in a desert road and then all of a sudden, the eunuch’s like, look, water. Uh, and it's pretty clear that at some point in the conversation, Philip seems to have mentioned baptism.
This is how you enter into this, you know, relationship with this, this Jesus. Yeah. Stops. He gets baptized, Philip gets snatched away. Teleportation usually a great sign. 

[00:17:41] Archbishop Lucas: My work here is finished. 

[00:17:42] Jim Jansen: That the Lord's at work. Yeah, it's like, okay, I guess I'm done now. 

[00:17:44] Archbishop Lucas: I think actually significant it happened. So, it's, it's significant.
But what the Holy Spirit needed Philip to do, he did. And then there was gonna be some more grace for the eunuch and he was on his way back home pre, uh, I presume, and, and was gonna be able to continue his. His journey of faith, but it wasn't all in Phillips hands, you know, to provide everything for the future.
He provided this very, this essential moment and then. 

[00:18:12] Jim Jansen: That's great. Yeah. That's so good because there's this discreet responsibility. I mean, you think the Holy Spirit has done like all the heavy lifting here. You think of all the arranges and yet there's this discreet responsibility that's given to Philip and then he's done.
And I mean, it reminds me a little bit of where you opened. Like, you know, I mean, he wasn't, I don't think the, your, your friend from where was he headed? Virginia? No, Louisiana. I don't, I mean, he wasn't snatched, he wasn't teleported, but he was snatched away, you know, thank you United or Southwest or whatever, whatever snatched him away, but you kind of knew it was like, okay, I mean, that was my moment.
And I, I gave my recommendations, and we had our conversation and. That's maybe, I guess, where, where I want to give you an opportunity to reflect. Like, this is such an extraordinary story, and yet, I have to believe the Lord puts it in here, not just to impress us. with the extraordinary, but to help us recognize the lesson for us in how we, in probably more ordinary circumstances, uh, share our faith.
What do you think are some of the lessons for us that come from this? 

[00:19:22] Archbishop Lucas: The Acts of the Apostles is full of just this vitality of the church at the beginning and how it just grew and grew and grew and all in a straight line and not without opposition or persecution. But you know, it's, it's part of the excitement, the vitality of the Easter season.
That we have the, these scriptures, but it, but it didn't grow automatically. It didn't grow just like a blob or a bunch of germs growing or something, but it was, it was one person witnessing to another. And it was the commission that Jesus had given to the disciples. They took it off with animated by, by the Holy spirit and phenomenal things were happening, uh, right and left because they took that, that seriously.
So, Philip saw that just a curiosity here, but a person, and then saw an opportunity. When he, uh, experienced a little openness from him to faith to share what he knew, this extraordinary news of, uh, uh, Jesus, the crucified and, and risen savior. Uh, but he, he was tuned in to both the responsibility and the opportunity.
It seems, I mean, again, it's one of the. This is sort of an extraordinary thing, but you had to imagine a lot of this was going on for the church to be growing by, by leaps and bounds. And um, so it leads us to think, well, is that a phenomenon from a bygone age or is there something that's being offered to us now from the same Holy Spirit?
People who had the same commission from the Lord, we lament, you know, the, the number of people who are either leaving the church or not. Connecting to the church to start with, particularly young among younger people, but not only there at all. And so, there's lots of, you know, to lament and be sorry about, but I think we're meant to ask ourselves, but are there opportunities?
Do we have the Holy Spirit and what, what might be my responsibility in my, in my opportunity? And not only to ask it in a general way, but what might it be today? And if I'm, as I'm part of this group or this activity or standing in the airport. 

[00:21:29] Jim Jansen: Right. In this conversation. Yeah. 

[00:21:30] Archbishop Lucas: Yeah. In this conversation.
Where's the, where's the opportunity? 

[00:21:34] Jim Jansen: You know, I. Yeah. Just as you're talking there, I think it was recognizing there are, I mean, Acts of the Apostles is full of so many stories of extraordinary, extraordinary things happening. But what's clear when we have the eyes to see it is all the extraordinary stuff is on God's part.
I mean, the, and again, not, not to any way take, take away from the heroism of, you know, Stephen's martyrdom or some of Peter's preaching, Paul's, you know, missionary journeys, but there's just kind of step-by-step ordinariness. And the, the fireworks, if you will, that's all God, he's the one who's, you know, just like kind of arranged all the pieces and they're showing up and they're just doing the next right thing.
It's like, Hey, do you know what you're reading? It's like, as a matter of fact, I, I do know who, who this reading is about, you know, and there's just very simple steps. That they're joyfully and obediently saying yes to. I want to maybe give you a chance to speak to, you know, you kind of asked this question that we can ask ourselves, like, do we, do we still have the Holy Spirit?
Is it, I mean, is this, is this type of vibrancy a thing that was just there for Acts of the Apostles and is now no longer accessible? What do you think, I mean, is can we have some hope to taste some of this, this joy and vibrancy? 

[00:22:53] Archbishop Lucas: Yeah. Another way of asking is, is the Holy Spirit tired after all these years?
Or, you know, is there the same, the same power? And again, it's this, it's the third person of the Trinity. It's a very personal gift that is given to us, personal presence of, of God in, in the Church of the Spirit. So, we have the, the gift, first of all, of, of having this personal encounter with the Father, son, and Holy Spirit in baptism, but through the action of, of the Holy Spirit.
I have this great privilege in our faith through the life of the spirit and us connecting personally with Jesus. So, he's not only a memory, there's memories of course, but he's not only a memory. He's not a statue in a museum or a statue that we burn incense to or, or something, but we have the opportunity for this, uh, for this encounter.
So, it's different. Our circumstances are different, and we have all this history of, of Christianity. So, it's a different, it's certainly a different time and a different experience. Yeah. Yeah. And yet generation by generation, if people are going to come to know the Lord, they're going to come to know him because somebody tells them and invites them to him or witnesses through the way that they live, suffer, die, work, all the things that are part of the human experience, by the way, that, that they approach that, do that, live it for someone to ask, well, you know, who is this or what's this, what's this all about?
And, and then. In that openness, there can be the opportunity to share the faith, to evangelize. 

[00:24:22] Jim Jansen: Yeah. I love the way you phrased that. And it's like, you know, is the Holy Spirit tired? And then the answer is no. 

[00:24:30] Archbishop Lucas: Yes. Right answer is no. 

[00:24:31] Jim Jansen: Yeah. But I remember, you know, you were able to confirm, uh, my son, Joshua, not too long ago.
You know, I remember your, your homily. It was kind of, it was a little bit of a variation on that theme. You're like, put him to work, like try him out. So, it's like, so you're getting this outpouring of the spirit, you know, confirmation candidates. Try it. In my experience, again, as a missionary and just ordinary, ordinary life.
It's when I lean on the spirit and I try to put him to work like, all right, come Holy Spirit. What are you doing? Oh, good grief. Give me the words for this conversation or help me to see what are you doing here? He shows up and I've never been teleported, but man like he does give the words he does Open hearts and minds.
He does give me a glimpse to see where he's been at work And it may not be quite Acts of the Apostles worthy, but I've been blessed to see, and I think so many others are like, blessed to see. Lives changed when we just kind of lean in and listen and ask him to show us what he's doing and how he's inviting us to help. 

[00:25:39] Archbishop Lucas: Have this great experience in some of our parishes, at least during the Easter season to become more acquainted with those who come into the church through the sacraments that at Easter, especially those newly baptized and I hope that we can provide opportunities for, you know, to know them better, but also maybe to Let them share what the Lord has been doing in their life and how their faith has been shaped or encouraged, fanned into a flame by the witness of others, by people in the parish who have accompanied them, you know, towards the towards the Easter sacraments, for example, other ways to.
When I get a chance to speak with, with those, some of those folks from, from time to time. But, uh, sometimes it, you know, it's been somebody at work, some, somebody in the family, maybe a mother in law or somebody again, you, you, you might, uh, we make jokes about some of these relationships that we have where you think, well, that's probably not good, but the good is going to come from that.
But, but. Some of those relationships unlikely as they may be, uh, not so unlikely really, but you know, there's been an openness on the part of both the one who's seeking looking for something open or maybe has an emptiness or a longing that they can't even see your name, and somebody sees them. Yeah. So, a brother or sister, somebody worthy of their attention of, of their witness and takes a chance to do it on it.
Then it begins something. So, then the whole church can, can kind of perk up and offer support and a community of welcome. If we do it. So it's one of the ways we fall down, you know, the, the, our CIA, the OCI is a, uh, In terms of the number of people who have participated over recent decades, it's, it's a phenomenal success, but where it hasn't been successful is really on the part of the church, not so much on the part of, of those who have been initiated because we haven't always been intentional about surrounding people gently, respectfully with, with a community of believers and providing more witnesses, but besides the ones they've seen already, who are there.
Ready to step up like Philip did, you know, and, and just be notice the person and be glad that they're there and, and be willing to share their faith and not just take it for granted. Okay, now we're all in this. 

[00:28:06] Jim Jansen: Yeah, no, I mean, all these folks that are coming in on Easter, they've been through a phenomenal journey.
There's a great story there, but we know that journey is just getting started. And if they're going to be able to persevere, they need it. They need to know other people, they need to be a part of the community, they need that ongoing witness. 

[00:28:27] Archbishop Lucas: They need to be invited to share their gifts. Yeah. There's never been anybody like that particular person in their church, you know, in all of our history.
And so, they're, they're bringing themselves, but the gifts of the, that the spirit is giving them. So, you know, it's an enrichment for our parish, it's enrichment for the relationships that, that, that can, can be formed. 

[00:28:44] Jim Jansen: I mean, I'm hearing some homework that we have to go, we have to go meet the new folks who've been confirmed or baptized and they're like, hi, I'm Jim.
What's your story? Get the story turns out their mother-in-law was helpful, or I'll bring them into the church. Yeah. Whoever. Yeah. 

[00:28:59] Archbishop Lucas: Somebody. 

[00:29:00] Jim Jansen: Yeah. I want to maybe in the time we have left to go back a little bit to the, to the eunuch here. Cause sometimes, you know, we can imagine it's like, okay, well, that guy's just crazy, extraordinary, you know, people just aren't, it's like, I would know what to do if I had somebody that open, you know, if I was on the, if I was on the desert road, um, there was a recent.
Barna study, they do, you know, uh, research into kind of like a faith background or there are religious organizations. So they look at all sorts of questions and when they were looking at the question of openness, this statistic blew me away that 50 percent of people who would self-describe as a lapsed Christian or a kind of, I'm open to spiritual things, but I'm not a Christian, 50 percent of them are curious about who God is, you know, that these are, these are people who.
would have a label and a self-described label that you would think would make them not interested, but in fact they are, or at least half of them. I mean, one in two is a pretty good, you know, anybody in sales like 50 percent, you know, interested in your product is a good, that's a good, that's a good place to start.
And even, I think it was the same study showed, even a third of those who are atheists are curious about who God is. It's fascinating to me, how easy it is, you know, if we can get just a little bit of the spirit that Phillip had to be able to see past some of the labels and some of the externals and recognize that there's, there's maybe a little bit more interest and curiosity than we might imagine.

[00:30:36] Archbishop Lucas: Yeah, we were put off often by the labels or we use it as a, just kind of an excuse to turn the other way or see, you think that there's not an opportunity, but you know what? The, the, Statistics that you're quoting, why should we be surprised? You know, these persons that you're describing are being created by God at this moment, and they have a relationship with God, whether they know it or not.
And, and it's, it's not a relationship of equals, you know? So, the, the power of God, which is always expressed in love. On our behalf, but it is powerful and is bigger than, than they are more attractive than any of us really can know or imagine. So yeah, we're made for it. And so, I think that that should be an encouragement to us to think, well, okay, this, I'm not just talking to a, to a stone wall here or working next to somebody who's, who's hopeless or is hollow or... 

[00:31:26] Jim Jansen: Well, and the Lord's been at work on them, even if we can't see it, even if it's not, you know, the time for us to pull the car aside and baptize somebody, the Lord is at work in and for them. Um, what is St. Ignatius, right? He's like, he's laboring for us the whole, the whole time trying to draw us, uh, to himself. 

[00:31:47] Archbishop Lucas: And so, in a, as we have an opportunity to have a conversation about faith or about what's true or good or however those, the conversation might, might begin or, or develop, we're, we're really.
Just accompanying someone as, as he or she learns something or discover something about themselves, you know, so it's not an imposition on our part and they may or may not want to hear it or be ready to hear it. So, but that's okay. I don't always want to hear something about myself. Maybe it's maybe I'm embarrassed because it's good or maybe I'm embarrassed because it's bad or just don't want the attention.
But again, when there, when there isn't an openness, We wanna be, be ready. And, and I think you know, it, it should be part of our prayer day by day to, to the Holy Spirit. Show me a person that's, that's gonna cross my path today. Who you want me to, to be attentive to? To... 

[00:32:43] Jim Jansen: Yeah. 

[00:32:43] Archbishop Lucas: ...listen to, because that's how this happened.
First, uh, Philip was listening... 

[00:32:47] Jim Jansen: Mm-hmm. 

[00:32:48] Archbishop Lucas: ...first. And then, you know, gimme the words, if I'm supposed to say something, gimme the words to do it, but don't. Um, help me not just, you know, keep going or just wash my hands of the person or write them off or, or whatever it might be. That prayer will be answered. It helps us be attentive, you know, and it helps us be intentional, you know, it's easy enough in our culture and we're all busy and occupied with often very good things, but we don't notice each other.
We're not as attentive to each other as we could be, even to the people that we know already pretty well. So sometimes this witness of the, of the love of Jesus is meant for somebody who we already know who is already close to the Lord, but maybe is struggling or doubting or just, you Lonely. 

[00:33:32] Jim Jansen: Yeah. 

[00:33:32] Archbishop Lucas: It could very well be part of these other big categories, growing categories really in a, in our time of people who could be tempted to think, well, they don't care about this stuff.
As you said, we're, they're made for it and we're, we're made through the being conformed to Christ and baptism and in the sacraments, we're made to share this love, this, this mercy of God with, with others. 

[00:33:53] Jim Jansen: Yeah. I like the way Pope Francis says it. I mean, some of the effect is like, you know, do we believe that life is better with Jesus?
Yeah. Absolutely. And I think the combination of, uh, again, right, the right answer is yes. We, we do believe life is better with Jesus. And so that there's a joyful kind of compelling desire on our part to share it. And again, if this story teaches us anything, we believe that the Lord has made life better.
them for it. And then he's working and arranging and laboring for them so that they can receive it. And he might just be giving us an opportunity today to be a part of that. 

[00:34:30] Archbishop Lucas: Yeah, it's a good insight worth, uh, just dwelling on a minute that, you know, Jesus hasn't come among us to hurt us. You know, quite the opposite so that we can be healed and have life.
So, there's nothing about him unless he's being misrepresented, which is that it's not him, you know, that will hurt anyone else. So, some Catholics particularly tend to be just sort of reluctant to be interested in the faith of their neighbors and new family moves in or, or whatever. Again, we don't, obviously we don't want to be rude and, and, you know, overwhelm people with anything.
At the same time, you know, what, what harm does it do to reveal a little bit about, about our faith as we're introducing ourselves and making ourselves known? In our Catholic schools, we've always had, um, students that aren't from Catholic families, sometimes they're not, may not even be Christian. And there's always this care to not be proselytizing, not try to impose our, our faith on them.
Uh, at the same time, you know, I should step back and say, well, but do we think anything? About Jesus is going to hurt them and we have to be respectful of their parents and all of that. And I mean, take that, I mean that seriously, but, but then so let's, let's welcome them as all family and think about the parents and kids together.
You know, is there anything about the Catholic faith truly represented? Is, is there anything about, uh, the knowledge and love of Jesus that that's going to harm anybody? Like it. But you know, some people don't like chocolate. I mean, there's all kinds of reasons why people have their receptivity, but, but in terms of our being willing to offer, offer it and we want to be respectful of the integrity of the other person.
And as Jesus desires, we want to share our faith with them, the faith of Jesus for their sake. Not simply so we can get their kid to play on our team or so that we can have more people in the pews, whatever those might be really good things to that could happen, but this could be as it was for the Ethiopian eunuch, just a moment of great benefit for him and then off Phillip goes, you know, so that's, he doesn't, it's, it doesn't, uh, He doesn't get points for it.
He doesn't get somebody on his team. It's just, it's all about the Lord and the Lord's relationship with him. And then maybe there's more for him in the relationship. Maybe there isn't, but it was, it was all for his sake. 

[00:36:52] Jim Jansen: Yeah. No, I appreciate you're bringing us back to the eunuch because it's very personal.
Someone showed me this not too long ago that, you know, of course we can recognize, you know, the, if, if you have kind of a missionary mindset, there's a strategic importance in who this man is, his access to the queen, you know, he's, he becomes a representative and an ambassador to, you know, a kingdom and maybe even a whole continent where the gospel hasn't yet shown up.
You know, it's fun to imagine the missionaries, you know, showing up in Ethiopia. And finding welcome from, you know, someone, uh, either the eunuch himself or, or those who've heard the story, uh, you know, when, when the queen asked, so how was your trip? You know. 

[00:37:36] Archbishop Lucas: Well, maybe Phillip could go back with him and be, could be the court chaplain, you know, and everybody, but this wasn't for him.
This is for the, this is for the unit. 

[00:37:43] Jim Jansen: Yeah. Yeah. There's something personal for him. I want to give us a chance here. Maybe as, as we close, you know, Some of our listeners might know being a Gentile and being a eunuch, despite the fact that he had made this long pilgrimage, and he clearly has figured out how to read the scriptures, uh, the eunuch was, his access to worship was very limited, you know, at best he could be in the court of the Gentiles, he wasn't allowed, uh, you know, to come in and worship, and uh, Just a few chapters later, uh, seemingly right, Isaiah 56, Philip's gone now, but if the eunuch keeps reading, he would have found a message that would have undoubtedly been pretty personal for him.
Archbishop, could you read that for us, maybe picking it up in Isaiah 56? 

[00:38:31] Archbishop Lucas: The foreigner joined to the Lord should not say, the Lord will surely exclude me from his people, nor should the eunuch say, see, I am a dry tree, for thus says the Lord to the eunuchs who keep my sabbaths. who choose what pleases me, and who hold fast to my covenant, I will give them in my house, and within my walls, a monument and a name better than sons and daughters, an eternal name, which shall not be cut off, I will give them.
And foreigners who join themselves to the Lord, to minister to him, to love the name of the Lord, to become his servants, all who keep the Sabbath without profaning it, and hold fast to my covenant, Them I will bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on my altar, for my house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.

[00:39:36] Jim Jansen: Love to see the look on his face, you know, when he read that after this extraordinary encounter with, with Philip. Yeah. I'd love, love to, to see that archbishop as we, uh, as we close here, any final, final thoughts, you know, we're, we're celebrating the Easter season. We're a couple of weeks in now. We've got some more.
We've got this beautiful story here of Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch. Anything else you want to encourage us to, to take away, uh, from the season or, or the, the, the reading? Spend time on today. 

[00:40:13] Archbishop Lucas: I would encourage you and me, but everybody who's listening, be alert to the opportunity. During this Easter season to share the life, the light of Jesus with someone else, that opportunity is being given to us, uh, not just all of us together in a sort of a general way, but, but to each of us personally, and I would just encourage that we make it a part of our prayer.
That's a simple prayer. In the morning, Holy Spirit helped me see the person today that to whom I could, I could witness my faith. Give me the words. Give me the compassion. Give me the openness. 

[00:40:51] Jim Jansen: Yeah. It's almost like another morning offering. You know, there's the, the kind of a traditional one that my mom taught me, but then there's this other like, and Lord, I'm available to show me who. 

[00:41:00] Archbishop Lucas: Well, because this is the way the Lord's asking us to serve him among other, other things.
But this is, That's specific for us in the commission. And then as you said before, let's count on the Holy Spirit. Let's see what happens. Yeah. And I'd be happy to hear from anybody who, who has, you know, an experience to share after. After praying this way and, and, and maybe being presented with a, uh, an opportunity maybe in an unlikely place to listen first and then to, to share what we know to be true about Jesus.

[00:41:30] Jim Jansen: Yeah, I would love that. Like, so if you, if you take us up on this and just point out your archbishop just gave you some homework. Try it out. Put the Holy Spirit to work and then let us know. Uh, we'd love to hear your stories. You can put them in at, uh, equip.archomaha.org. Uh, there's a space for comments there and yeah, we'd love to, we'd love to hear your stories.
Archbishop. Thank you. Thanks for being with us. Thanks for spending a little, little time walking through. through the story with us. 

[00:41:58] Archbishop Lucas: Thanks, Jim, for the opportunity. 

[00:41:59] Jim Jansen: All right, everybody, you know, somebody who needs this homework assignment, uh, who needs the encouragement. So, uh, yeah, share this out with a friend and yeah, let us know.
Love to hear your, your comments and your stories of how you put the Holy Spirit to work. Thanks for listening to the equip cast. We hope this episode has inspired you to live your faith and equip you to be fruitful in your mission. Stay connected with us by going to equip.archomaha.org. God bless and see you next time.